User talk:Circeus/2008-1

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Hello, Circeus, and thanks for registering. It helps those of us watching tremendously. Regarding etymonline, it is a wonderful source, but it is copyright, so please take care to use it appropriately.

I have added some standard welcome text below for your reference. It includes formatting tips and such that you may wish to review, even though I see you have Wikipedia experience. --Dvortygirl 29 June 2005 17:03 (UTC)


Hello, and welcome to Wiktionary. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wiktionarian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk (discussion) and vote pages using four tildes, like this: ~~~~, which automatically produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the beer parlour or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome!



Etymonline is an excellent source for etymological information, but please recognize that it is copyrighted. That means that while you can incorporate material from it, you should not copy directly. Please use caution when using sources to make sure that you have added to or modified the material sufficiently to avoid copyright violations. Thanks. --Dvortygirl 4 July 2005 22:25 (UTC)


Just noting what you are playing with, a few things:

  1. it would be better to call it fr-form-of (or whatever), fr-verb looks like what one would use on the inflection line
  2. the # have to be outside the template, in the page wikitext, else it doesn't look like a definition line to most tools
  3. wouldn't it be easier to call {{form of}} for each case? that's what it is there for, so you don't have to do all the span tag stuff ;-)

Robert Ullmann 15:28, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't think I can place the # outside the template. That would defeat the idea to make it cover multiple homographic forms, such as the 3 listed at gouge, which is why I created it in the first place.
I will see about adding {{form of}} and using a better name once I'm done with the basic implementation (I think I can only implement reasonably well the first and second regular conjugation. My conjugation books analyses ca. 80 different conjugation sets o_O). Circeus 15:56, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Not putting the # outside the template is not an option. The # MUST be in the page wikitext, not in the template. Robert Ullmann 15:59, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Oh, silly me. I should be able to just remove the first one when there are multiples. I'll test that when I'm done with -ir verbs.
Oh, and I had no idea about {{form of}}. I've been copy-pasting from what was added tomy forms in gouge. If I'd known, I would have used them (I love a good template, although imbrication sometimes drive me batty). Circeus 16:01, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Yup, works that way. Now to implement {{form of}}... Circeus 16:11, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Aaaand done. It's at {{fr-def-verbform}} now. Is it better? I'm testing it on the verb forms of gouger right now and it works superbly so far. Circeus 17:02, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
The form-of templates are not language specific, as far as I am aware. They should not be prefixed with the language code. Also, you will need a separate template for each form. DAVilla 09:59, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Strike: While I believe this to be true, it may not apply to your template anyway. DAVilla 13:59, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


Hi, I was wondering if you could take a look at the conjugation of vendre (or any other verb using {{fr-conj-re}})? Right now it claims the third-person plural passé simple ends in -îrent, but I was pretty sure it actually ended in -irent (i.e., that the circumflex only appeared in the first- and second-persons plural). Thanks in advance! —RuakhTALK 22:26, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

O.K., that's what I thought. Thanks again. :-)   —RuakhTALK 23:20, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Words in the News[edit]

If adding words to this page is something you enjoy and plan to do regularly, you ought to place your name on the task list at WT:DW, just so that people know someone is actively helping with that page. SemperBlotto used to update it regularly, but has not done so for the past few months. --EncycloPetey 19:53, 19 August 2007 (UTC)


Merci beaucoup Circeus nl:Gebruiker:Jcwf

Etymology templates[edit]


Note that etymology templates take a parameter specifying the language to categorize by; so, for example, if#French should use {{Gau.|fr}}, not just {{Gau.}}. (This way it gets added to Category:fr:Gaulish derivations rather than Category:Gaulish derivations.)

RuakhTALK 19:48, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


Greetings. I noticed that the pages you made from gouger (e.g. gougé) are all wrong. Please rectify this. Were you using a bot to create those entries? --Totemo 14:39, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

The template used at gougé was changed in a way that broke pages already using it. They'll be taken care of in a day or two. In the meantime, feel free to fix any you come across by changing (for example) {{fr-def-verbform|gouger|é|er}} to {{subst:fr-def-verbform|gouger|é|er}}. —RuakhTALK 15:40, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
They're all fixed now. Sorry that took so long! (The good news is, my bot is now operational, so any future such things will be handled much more quickly.) —RuakhTALK 04:47, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Around here too[edit]

Hey, Petey! I didn't know you hanged around here too. Circeus 05:25, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I do more work here on Wiktionary than on Wikipedia, and have been active here longer. On Wiktionary, I'm an admin, maintain the Word of the Day, add and clean up Latin entries, organize topical categories, started several Appendix pages, and so forth. I used to be more active on Wikipedia (mostly sorting stubs), but took a long break from serious contributions to WP. --EncycloPetey 04:59, 28 September 2007 (UTC)


Our "additonal information" section headers are usually plural, so it should always be Related terms and Usage notes, even if there is just one term or just one note. The consistency makes bot-cleanup easier. --EncycloPetey 02:44, 8 October 2007 (UTC)


Style note (after aeeing the nice quotes you added to Sisyphean]]): we put made-up example sentences in italics; actual quotes are not italicized unless the source was. --EncycloPetey 05:45, 17 December 2007 (UTC)


Ah, I should have been clearer. You need to add

document.write('<script type="text/javascript" src="/w/index.php?title=User:Conrad.Irwin/edittools.js&action=raw"></script>');

to User:Circeus/monobook.js. Sorry for the inconvenience. Conrad.Irwin 00:54, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok, you did, I must have been victim to a stale cache. Can you give more details about the problem. Conrad.Irwin 00:55, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
I am not sure why you say it isn't working :), maybe I gave off the wrong vibes about what it does now. All you should see differently is the new "Default" section at the top of your drop down list (top-left of edittools), which (when I do it) is identical to your User:Circeus/edittools page. Conrad.Irwin 01:04, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
Ah, I see, a serious bug. Which browser are you using? Do you have javascript turned on? (Also having cookies turned on helps)Conrad.Irwin 01:08, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
Sorry for the disappointment, having just booted up firefox 3b2, It doesn't work at all, nor does it give any error messages. I will look into it at some point tomorrow. It does work in FF2, IE6 (thus presumably 7). If you want normal edittools back, then remove my javascript from your page - and it should go back to normal. I will let you know when I fix it. Conrad.Irwin 01:28, 29 December 2007 (UTC)


Hi again, Circeus. I have patched the bug [XmlHttpRequest.send() doesn't work, you have to use XmlHttpRequest.send('');]. And so you should be able to use this now. Thank you for being patient, and when it next completely breaks and fails, let me know and I will try and fix it again. Conrad.Irwin 13:21, 29 December 2007 (UTC)


Happy New Year! When you have a moment, could you please add French translations to the entry for hinder? Do watch out for edit conflicts, though, since I'm asking several folks for help with this. --EncycloPetey 20:23, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

alternate universe[edit]

You're right, Circeus. That was sarcasm. -- WikiPedant 03:03, 18 January 2008 (UTC)


Hi. Sorry for the apparent reverting we've been thinking was that it's normal here to have foreign-language defs as glosses rather than definitions, and therefore starting with a lower-case letter and ending without a full stop – unless the definition is actually a full sentence. That's certainly how most French entries are formatted. It has been discussed in the Beer Parlour before, although I can't seem to find the link right now. Does that bother you? Widsith 20:48, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


I'm not banned from Wiktionary, only from Wikipedia, so I was wondering what I could do to improve this site. Connell66 01:31, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. :) Connell66 01:52, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Appendix:List of Greek words with English derivatives[edit]

You had mentioned that you might possibly have some interest in wikifying this page, but were unsure of the format. As I see it, the only thing that remains is to link the grc words in the first column. The verbs need to be changed to the present active indicative first person singular (as they largely seem to be the present active infinitive currently). Basically that means that, for all the verbs that end with -ειν, the -ειν should be replaced with an ω (this won't be the case for all verbs, but it'll work for most of 'em.) Anything that doesn't end with -ειν feel free to simply leave and I'll take care of them (I guess I have no idea how much grc you know, and so am assuming none, if this is not the case, I apologize for being so didactic). The second and fourth columns are simply romanizations, and should not be wikified. The third columns are root forms (not words) and so should not be wikified either. I suppose the meanings could be wikified as well, if you feel ambitious. Also, I feel obligated to tell you that I plan on using this appendix as a Request Page, and nominating it for deletion once all the words have entries, so if you do end up wikifying it, I would advise not putting too much effort into it. Atelaes 17:51, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


So I just realized that you weren't an admin, and was wondering if you'd have any interest in becoming one. Atelaes 02:36, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough. Atelaes 03:35, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Are you sure you wouldn't want to be an admin? It has no actual responsibilities, but it does give you a few powers that enable you to efficiently patrol, delete bad stuff, block vandals when no one else is around, etc. DCDuring TALK 17:24, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


We are rethinking the whole thing, you are probably right tho ;) - [The]DaveRoss 02:08, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

agressif[edit] the correct spelling in French, not aggressif, apparently. --Keene 23:40, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Reinserting macrons in Latin links[edit]

I was wondering why in editting proscription you re-inserted all the macrons in links that I had just taken out? That is the policy: Wiktionary:About Latin#Macrons should be used only within pages. --Bequw¢τ 16:30, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Keep in mind that Latin is not written with macrons; they are an affectation of dictionaries and "readers". Why we allow them outside of Pronunciation sections is a mystery. (Well, not mysterious, it is the result of one editor insisting that we do like all the dictionaries do. Never mind how Latin is written...) Robert Ullmann 16:36, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Actually, it is a result of all the Latin editors here, and this is what they do on the Latin Wiktionary. --EncycloPetey 00:00, 15 March 2008 (UTC)


please don't remove sections just because they're empty. Many of our users do not speak Enlgish as a first language, and having the sections set up for them is a courtesy to them. --EncycloPetey 23:59, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Then I would suggest raising that issue in the Beer Parlour. It is currently common practice to set up the section for ease of adding translations. --EncycloPetey 00:04, 15 March 2008 (UTC)


this. You can't just remove meaning because you don't like it, especially if it's already in one of the translation tables(!). Use formal process such as {{rfv-sense}} to question it. Also, if a number of translations is already queued to be checked, please don't remove empty sections - they were most likely deliberately set up by the same dude that queued up translations for checking to save the time for others (especially ESL speakers). --Ivan Štambuk 00:10, 15 March 2008 (UTC)


I don't understand your point about this. Please explain. I recognize that ironwood is used to refer to trees other that Carpinus caroliniana. I am uncertain how to present the association between ironwood and the C. c. entry visibly on the ironwood page. What would you suggest? DCDuring TALK 15:51, 15 March 2008 (UTC)


Per this edit, do you have any advice on distinguishing "informal" from "colloquial", or do you prefer the one term over the other? Also, how could one be sure that a sense isn't dated? DAVilla 08:13, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

food coma[edit]

I was wondering at the use of the {{jocular}} in this edit. My understanding of the use of jocular is when the term's usage is exclusively jocular; that there is no extant use other than in humorous writing. Yet a cursory Google search finds a high percentage of health-related, that is serious, uses of the term. Incidentally, the term jocular is not defined in the glossary, so is it a useful descriptor to use officially? - Amgine/talk 16:10, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

"Informal use" implies there is also a "formal use". Unless there is an actual formal term, there cannot be an informal one. Thus our difference of opinion regarding the application of that contextual tag. I would suggest, however, the number of google hits implies the term is at least in common parlance and thus at least colloquial. - Amgine/talk 17:46, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
I think we'll continue to disagree regarding the formal/informal circumstance. I noticed that google books has only 4 hits for the exact phrase "meal lethargy", which includes mid-meal lethargy, post-meal lethargy, and after-meal lethargy, while it has 98 hits for "food coma". Furthermore, the food coma quotes are in both fiction and non-fiction applications, the latter being primarily cooking, dieting, and eating-disorder texts. - Amgine/talk 03:31, 4 April 2008 (UTC)


this a Slip of the tongue? "In the sense of "wonderfool", the word has become associated with gay men" Keene 21:32, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

cas d'école[edit]

Can you make anything of cas d'école? It seems to be a bad translatinon of something. Keene 09:57, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Romance language verb cleanup project[edit]

I'd like to invite you to participate in a community effort to improve the quality of common verbs in Romance languages. I've started a project page at User:EncycloPetey/Latin verbs. The plan to select (or have someone select) one or two new "verbs" each week for cleanup and expansion beyond the basic content. By "verb", I mean the corresponding entry across several Latin-descended languages, and not simply a single entry. Your help with French entries would be much appreciated. See the project page for more details and the current selection (listed near the top of the page, as well as highlighted in the tables). --EncycloPetey 06:16, 4 May 2008 (UTC)