Wiktionary:Grease pit/2011/February

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February 2011

Bot-generated lists for Icelandic

Would someone be able to create a list of all Icelandic nouns, verbs, adjectives and pronouns that don't have a Declension, Inflection, or Conjugation header (within the POS header)? – Krun 20:47, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

I think it would be easier to create a list of all nouns, that don't transclude a certain template. And similar for the other parts of speech. —CodeCat 22:35, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
Certainly someone could, but I'm not sure it would find what you really want. For example, if there's a ===Noun=== without a ====Declension==== or ====Inflection====, that might mean that inflection information is missing, but I think it's more likely to mean that this is a plural and/or non-nominative form, no? —RuakhTALK 22:50, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
Sounds to me like what he is looking for are Icelandic sections with only definition lines, and possibly usexes, but not much else. In order to flesh them out. Also bolded headword under PoS line rather than inflection template. - TheDaveRoss 03:22, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
Actually, I've been creating various inflection-table templetes (such as {{is-decl-noun-f-s3}}, {{is-decl-adj-1}} and {{is-conj-w4}}). I'm looking for entries that are missing such templates (they would always be under one of the mentioned sections. I would want, e.g. the page listed if the verb is missing its conjugation template, even if the noun with the same spelling has a declension table. Obviously, no simple form-of entries (although they shouldn't get listed anyway, since they have neither the header nor the template). – Krun 08:19, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're asking for. I initially thought you wanted a list of every ==Icelandic== ===Noun=== section that didn't contain a ====Declension==== or ====Inflection==== subsection (and so on for the other POSes), which would be easy to do; but now you seem to be saying something completely different that I don't understand. —RuakhTALK 16:43, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
Sorry for the late reply. The purpose of my asking is to find existing Icelandic entries which should have an inflection table, but currently don't. That could be done by looking for the sections under which such templates would be, and listing all the the words that don't have them, but presumably should. So, the scheme should be something like: Search for Noun, Adjective, or Verb header under Icelandic > if found, check for subheader Declension, Inflection, or Conjugation > if no such subheader, list the entry. It would be nice to exclude pure form-of entries (since those should have such POS headers without an inflection table), but it might be too difficult since many of them have nonstandard, inconsistent formatting. Still, if you could exclude those POS sections where the only definitions contain {{form of}}, {{is-inflection of}}, or {{is-conjugation of}}, that should get rid of quite a few. – Krun 10:09, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
If a bot looks through Category:Icelandic nouns for all entries that do not have is-decl-noun-f-s3 etc, will that action find all nouns that are missing declension and all noun forms that should be in Category:Icelandic noun forms? Then two problems can be addressed. - -sche 00:43, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
Check out this list. It should be what you want for the most part, if the Icelandic section contains a Noun PoS header it checks for the noun template, etc. If they are missing any of the three the term is listed. The normal caveat is that this list is only as current as the last dump (Feb. 5) so there will be some you have already gotten to. If there are terms missing that should be on there, or terms on there that should not be, let me know on my talk page and I can rerun it to include/exclude as applicable. - TheDaveRoss 01:24, 14 February 2011 (UTC)


Why would you want a template that in the creators opinion 'just calls on {{also}}' for individual languages, rather than just using, erm, {{also}}, or in this case {{xsee}}? Mglovesfun (talk) 00:32, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

The reason for this template being distinct from {{also}} is that the two templates are used in different ways and do not mean the same thing: one is used at the top of an entry, outside any language section, with the general meaning "here are some typographically similar entries", while the other is used inside Japanese ===Noun=== and ===Verb=== sections to link between noun and verb forms of the same word (where the verb is just noun + suru). Whether such a thing is worth having, I cannot say, but it certainly shouldn't be deprecated in favor of using {{also}} this way. —RuakhTALK 00:51, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

User:Robert Ullmann/IPAchars

I realize this is quite a request and hard to do, but since Robert Ullmann is gone, it would be nice to have a script which generates a page like the linked one. It is absolutely great for finding errors in pronunciation sections and a very helpful tool.

Key points:

  • should search the dump for all characters occuring in IPA templates (SAMPA and enPR are not required)
  • creates a list like in the above link of all characters found
  • cross-checks all characters found against a list of valid IPA characters (Appendix:IPA characters)
  • lists some example pages for either rare characters (below 100 uses) or invalid characters

-- Prince Kassad 18:31, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

And I quote "g is valid, but we (and the IPA) prefer the script g, so g is listed as invalid". That's no longer the case, we and steadily replacing the Latin g with the IPA one. Also it's widely accepted to use dots to indicate the syllables, particularly in French and Latin. So the FULL STOP (as Unicode calls it) shouldn't be listed as invalid. Mglovesfun (talk) 20:52, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
The period is not listed as invalid. You may have confused it with another character, perhaps. -- Prince Kassad 20:58, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
Parentheses are listed as invalid but they are widely used in Dutch to show that word-final n is not pronounced by all speakers. —CodeCat 10:17, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
Maybe you don't understand the table? Only those characters marked with (invalid) are invalid. The parentheses aren't. -- Prince Kassad 15:13, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Audio player bug

If you put two audio players next to each other, the first one covers the second one.


--Muhaha 12:06, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

It looks just fine to me? —CodeCat 12:17, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
What browser are you using, and what version? The styling that supports those may not function the same in all browsers and all browser versions. - TheDaveRoss 19:20, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
See picture: http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/8295/audioplayerwiki.png
Browsers: Firefox 4, Firefox 3.6, Chrome 9 (picture taken on FF4) --Muhaha 19:26, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
Ah, they overlap when expanded, I see. There is no functionality obscured, so it isn't a huge deal, but probably when one player is clicked all others on the page should close. - TheDaveRoss 20:22, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
In Chrome functionality is obscured. If you click the left player, you can't click the right one. --Muhaha 11:11, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
Ok. The audio players are part of the OggHandler extension, which makes this a MediaWiki bug. I will submit one. - TheDaveRoss 11:27, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Assisted translations and trreqs don't like each other

Apparently, when a translation table contains no translations but only translation requests, and the requests use language codes instead of language names... Then, you can only use assisted translations for the languages that are already listed.

For example, test the current sexual predator. It contains only trreqs, and only with language codes. I can't add an assisted Portuguese translation to it if I want to. --Daniel. 18:51, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Redlinked Latin terms

Does anyone know how to extract a list of redlinked Latin terms from etymologies of English entries?

I know there is Category:Latin derivations containing English words derived from Latin, and I know a bit about how to work with AWB and regular expressions in it, but that does not help me in recognizing redlinks.

There is Wiktionary:Requested entries:Latin/verbs, but it seems to contain too many unattestable redlinks, per Caladon. --Dan Polansky 08:57, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

TheDaveRoss (talkcontribs) did this for me by finding anything using {{term|[anything here]|lang=frm}}, see User:Mglovesfun/to do/Middle French. Mglovesfun (talk) 13:11, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the tip. I have extracted the list from an XML dump of Wiktionary using grep. After processing the list a bit, I have placed it to the sandbox in the wiki in the preview mode, so I can see which of the terms are redlinked. By viewing the HTML source of the page, copying it to a regexp-enabled text editor, and processing it further there, I was able to get a list of those terms that are redlinked. --Dan Polansky 19:14, 8 February 2011 (UTC)


I have created an experiment {{gloss/new}} that as well as msh210's suggestion on the talk page, uses a span tag to create an anchor. This can be witnessed User:Mglovesfun/sandbox/2#poker (this edit) where using gloss allows one to link directly to a definition. The text above just serves as filler so that the browser actually needs to scroll down to see the sense. Believe it or not, the entire content of gloss is ({{{1}}}), so it's totally redundant to just writing the word inside brackets. Which is why I think it should do more. Mglovesfun (talk) 13:09, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

The template can be extended if the extension is useful, but there is nothing urgent about extending it. There is nothing wrong about the template merely adding brackets. One of the purposes of the template is to create a customizable location. Another purpose is to create a markup that is easy to recorgnize by bots as "{{gloss|...some text...}}"; "(...some text...)" cannot be unambiguously recognized as a gloss, as brackets can be also used for other purposes. --Dan Polansky 13:30, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Loss of Javascript functionality

I am aware of that there has been a change that effects Javascript. I use monobook and have lost rhs ToC and some functionality of various templates, such as {{context}}, {{rel-top}}, {{wikipedia}}. The loss has occurred on Chrome and FF3.6.13. Does anyone know whether any MediaWiki changes are likely to restore such lost functionality? If not, is there any realistic hope that we can do all of the changes required to restore the functionality of such templates. DCDuring TALK 17:54, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

The developers are currently using MediaWiki as a personal playground. You should wait a while, eventually all will be fine. -- Prince Kassad 18:11, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
For some reason the system messages all got reset; see http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Special:AllMessages?filter=modified&limit=5000, and notice that (with a few exceptions that I've already fixed) the "Current message text" is identical to the "Default message text". Probably one of those messages was involved in providing the functionality you're missing, or else the same issue also affects whatever provides that functionality. I've fixed a few messages by clicking through to the MediaWiki: page that controls the message, going to "Edit", and clicking "Save page" without making changes. (So, for example, the page MediaWiki:Edittools was intact, but for some reason MediaWiki decided the edittools message was <!-- Text here will be shown below edit and upload forms. --> until MediaWiki:Edittools got resaved.) The same thing happened at the English Wikipedia — dunno about other projects — which hopefully means that devs will become aware of and fix it. (But if it only affects system messages, then we can take care of it ourselves, if anyone has the patience to take care of all of them.) —RuakhTALK 18:20, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
No need to null-edit: just use action=purge. (There must be a way for a bot to do that (or null-edits) to the whole namespace, one page at a time, in short order.)​—msh210 (talk) 19:02, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
There, I've action=purged everything at special:allmessages that's listed as "modified". Any remaining problems?​—msh210 (talk) 19:17, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
I've not gotten any improvement. DCDuring TALK 19:35, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Curious: I have. Specifically, the delete-reason and block-reason dropdowns were not enwikt's, and now they are. Same for the page that appears to the blocking admin after the block is effected. Do you see non-enwikt versions of those?​—msh210 (talk) 20:35, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
I lost the Javascript functionality as well. The translation sections look very ugly. --Anatoli 20:31, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
I forgot to mention the problem with {{trans-top}}, which might be the same as Anatoli's. DCDuring TALK 21:04, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Another specific problem is that {{wikipedia}} and {{pedia}} don't display additional links to Wikipedia at the left side of my screen anymore. And all the green links are broken (because they don't create assisted entries anymore). --Daniel. 21:16, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Curiouser and curiouser. Those both workforme.​—msh210 (talk) 21:23, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps some editors have locally cached bad JS, and need to clear their caches or do a hard refresh? —RuakhTALK 21:26, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the suggestion, Ruakh. I have cleared my cache various times today with no effect; but seconds ago I tried again, and apparently everything is working perfectly now. The translations are not ugly anymore for me, and the links to Wikipedia are where they should be. Probably the green links are working too, but I didn't test them yet. --Daniel. 21:32, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
I would have thought so except that I never cleared my cache or hard-refreshed the relevant scripts (not all of them, anyway).​—msh210 (talk) 21:35, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
I'm assuming that you and I had locally cached good JS from before the problems started, so we never pulled the bad JS and never saw any problems. —RuakhTALK 21:57, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
I thought it was just me. I null edited the delete and block messages this afternoon. Everything looks fine now. Very strange. SemperBlotto 22:15, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
For the record, another strange phenomenon that ocurred today was that both Wiktionary and Wikipedia (I didn't test other Wikimedia sites) were either inaccessible or very slow. --Daniel. 22:22, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
[1] --Yair rand (talk) 22:28, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

In pictures

What Wiktionary looks like to me Mglovesfun (talk) 16:56, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

This is what Wiktionary looks like to me. There's an extra link every time {{wikipedia}} is used (top left). {{term}} no longer italicizes, hidden quotes aren't hidden, rolled up tables aren't rolled up, and translation tables are even worse. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:56, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

This picture is similar to how I saw Wiktionary yesterday. Eventually, when I cleared the cache, everything went back to normal. --Daniel. 17:00, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
Me too, exactly. I logged out and restarted my browsers (I was trying both FF and Chrome) because I wasn't so sure that my cache-clearing was effective. We can look forward to them trying again. That day might be a good day for a wikibreak. DCDuring TALK 18:36, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
Martin, do you not see the English definitions at [[lithium]]?!?​—msh210 (talk) 18:41, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
Oh sorry, this was actually in my sandbox, I removed some of the 'correct' content to show the incorrect content. PS I do plan on eventually deleting this image. Mglovesfun (talk) 13:11, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
Let's keep these here until the next attempted upgrade. DCDuring TALK 17:03, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
I've now uploaded it to Commons. Mglovesfun (talk) 23:52, 16 February 2011 (UTC)


Hello, I've installed fr:MediaWiki:Gadget-searchbox.js from pl:MediaWiki:Gadget-searchbox.js. It adds the text treatment functions: "go to line n°", "change the capitalization", "search and replace" (eventually "replace all") and sort alphabetically. JackPotte 20:38, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

There already is a search and replace function on the edit screen, all the way on the right in the "Advanced" section. --Yair rand (talk) 04:20, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
There isn't any "Advanced" section in Monobook. JackPotte 10:04, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
The gadget one can respect the capitalization or not, with Monobook or Vector. JackPotte 09:08, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

wiktionary search box

When I search a word on wiktionary, I would like the search box to be the first thing active on the page, so I can type another word really quick (instead of activating the search box with the cursor). Is it possible to configure this on my wiktionary page?

Let's use MediaWiki:Gadget-searchFocus.js with your account. JackPotte 07:53, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Category:Candidates for speedy deletion

This category is showing 112 entries in it, yet none of the remaining ones are tagged with {{delete}} or one of its redirects, and they don't seem to be transcluding a template that's nominated for speedy deletion. Thoughts? Anyone else seeing the same thing as me right now? Mglovesfun (talk) 13:09, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

The redirect syntax just hides it. It's also the case on the other wikis. JackPotte 15:01, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
I guess this is my fault; I asked TeleComNasSprVen (talkcontribs) not to break redirects by adding {{delete}} above them, but rather to add it below them so that the redirect shows up in Category:Candidates for speedy deletion but still functions as a redirect in the meantime. —RuakhTALK 16:58, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Wiktionary data via Graphical user interface (Java)

Welcome to test my program "wiwordik". It provides a simple search interface to data extracted from the English Wiktionary.

Link: http://code.google.com/p/wikokit/

P.S. Comments and ideas are welcome (for the next version of the program). -- Andrew Krizhanovsky 13:15, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

To overide a redirect do I need to be an admin?

As per essay posted in Beer Garden, I see a need for case - senmsitive "Game" entry. Is it necessary to plead for consensus, or can I myself without admin privileges just make the edit and let the burden of revert fall upon sceptics??

  Geofferybard 20:57, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
To address your technical question: You don't need to be an admin, no; just go to the "edit" page for that title (http://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Game&action=edit) and start typing.
But the entry will be deleted, because it's not appropriate to a dictionary.
RuakhTALK 21:04, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Translations to entries without the specified language section

There used to be a bot that would convert {{t}} templates to {{t+}} or {{t-}}, changing the color of the inter-Wiktionary link to reflect whether the Wiktionary in the language of the translation had an entry for the word. This seems strange to me, as we didn't/don't even have a bot to change the color of the translation link itself to reflect whether the entry on the English Wiktionary has a section for that language. Many translations show up as blue, yet the entry doesn't have the section for the translations. Does anyone know whether having a bot change the template to change the color of the translation (maybe using the css class "partlynew" like indexes) could be possible? --Yair rand (talk) 02:16, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

It is absolutely possible, and we do need a new Tbot. We need a victimvolunteer to write and run it! - TheDaveRoss 02:46, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
JackBot (talkcontribs) does this on the French Wiktionary. Mglovesfun (talk) 15:17, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Do you mean Jackbot does Tbot stuff, or what I suggested? Or both? --Yair rand (talk) 17:17, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
It updates the {{t}} template (fr:Modèle:trad). Mglovesfun (talk) 19:28, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

υττέρβιο <> υπέρβιο

On my screen the Greek lower-case double-tau (ττ) and pi (π) appear as ττ and π and are almost identical - is this the same with other people? I know that some templates use an appropriate font (although I am dont know which font or how it's achieved), can anything be done? —Saltmarshαπάντηση 06:52, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

I should add that this would not normally be a problem for a Greek, but it would be nice if, say, the headword line enabled differentiation. —Saltmarshαπάντηση 06:59, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Let's compare with and without {{Grek}}
  1. υττέρβιο, υπέρβιο
  2. υττέρβιο, υπέρβιο
Also depends on your browser and what fonts you have installed. To me, I can see a gap between the two taus, so no problem for me. Mglovesfun (talk) 15:00, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
It's definitely a problem here, at least in the bold face. (the normal face is alright) No idea how we're going to solve that, any suggestions? -- Prince Kassad 15:08, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
OK, in bold:
  1. υττέρβιο, υπέρβιο
  2. υττέρβιο, υπέρβιο
Mglovesfun (talk) 15:15, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
If I blow my browser (Firefox) image to maximum and then reduce size stepwise the space between taus disappears and reappears. What is Wiktionary's native font? It looks like Ariel - that's if I set Firefox to allow Wiktionary's default font. I can override to any serif font which makes the difference clear, as does Tahoma which looses the horizontal extensions on the pi - fine for me - but itsa pity {{Grek}} doesn't set a suitable font where the user's browser allows! —Saltmarshαπάντηση 16:22, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
I'll make no more comments since this (fonts) seems a minefield beyond my simple mind. I had Times New R. as a default and set Firefox to allow the pages to choose its own font - this gave Ariel (Times was ignored) - but having set Calibri as a default (but still allowing the page to choose) Ariel is no long used but what looks like Calibri - this make ττ and π look totally different. —Saltmarshαπάντηση 16:38, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Template talk:plural of#sort

Would like input before proceeding as is widely transcluded. Mglovesfun (talk) 14:53, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Template talk:en-adj#No inflections

Would like input before proceeding as is widely transcluded. Mglovesfun (talk) 14:54, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

New version of Wiki?

Why does everything look different today? SemperBlotto 08:45, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, Mediawiki was upgraded to Version 1.17. (There's now a Special:MyPage/common.js :) ) --Yair rand (talk) 09:05, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Oh that's even worse! It makes the navigation bar go away. SemperBlotto 10:56, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
User:Mglovesfun/vector.js has been entirely disabled. Worked perfectly last night. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:27, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Mine is still working, though I had to make one change to remove references to two JavaScript variables that no longer exist. Maybe check if your browser is reporting any JavaScript errors? —RuakhTALK 18:26, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Specifically - all the colours look washed-out and there is little contrast on the page. This is using Google Chrome as browser. However, I have just tried my old IE7 browser and everything looks fine. Very strange. (I don't use any .js file and have the Monobook skin) SemperBlotto 16:02, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
The enhanced taskbar seems to have been enabled without my intervention today. I didn't want the enhanced taskbar, so I disabled it again, but it won't go away, even when I clear my cache.
Also, every time when I used HotCat, a dialog box with a pesky message like "Do you really want to close this page?" was appearing; so I had to disable another option, to eventually use HotCat in peace. --Daniel. 16:22, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
I have to report the task bar problem - and an annoying lethargy - for example pull-down boxes noticeably appear in open form and then close. —Saltmarshαπάντηση 16:55, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Here is another, particularly harmful problem: apparently, all auto-redirects are pointing to Wiktionary:Main Page. --Daniel. 21:06, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Yup. Needs someone knowledgeable with JS to fix it. I've disabled auto-redirection in the meanwhile. -- Prince Kassad 21:19, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
That is not very true . . . —RuakhTALK 21:21, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
It's now fixed. ".data" is not ".innerText" or ".innerHTML" — but jQuery is much better for this kind of thing anyway. Conrad.Irwin 08:45, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
After e/c: Darn it. That's because MediaWiki:Common.js assumes that the link in a did-you-mean has a title identifying the target page. That assumption is no longer valid for some reason: links still have titles on normal pages, but not on edit-pages, and not on nonexistent pages. I don't know why. For right now I've disabled that (though caching means that some users will continue to see the problem), until someone figures out an alternative approach. (It shouldn't be too hard.) —RuakhTALK 21:21, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
See bug 542. An approach would be getting the content (i. e. the name), rather than the title attribute, of the link. -- Prince Kassad 21:25, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Oh, that explains it. I’m still using Monobook, but today my links are no longer underlined and everything just looks different. I kept closing my browser and restarting, hoping that would fix it, but it didn’t. Same on Wikipedia. —Stephen (Talk) 22:41, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

My edit page looks like this [2]. Was MediaWiki:Edittools changed? - -sche 23:00, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

My edit page contains the usual links to templates, that begin with "{{en-noun}} {{en-adj}} {{en-verb}} {{en-adv}} {{en-proper noun}} {{plural of|+}} {{third-person singular of|+}}"
However, they aren't clickable. They're just black text. --Daniel. 23:06, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

HotCat and the assisted creation of entries are both gone. --Daniel. 23:06, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Assisted translations are gone as well. --Anatoli 23:23, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Yes, Edittools has changed. A lot of what I used to see is now gone. Most of what does appear is not blue-linked, so you can’t click on anything to add it to a document. —Stephen (Talk) 23:32, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Assisted translations are back. The importscript function was broken for a bit. --Yair rand (talk) 03:57, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
Both creation.js and the Edittools work for me. But it may require the custom edittools script. -- Prince Kassad 05:13, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

bureaucrat can now desysop?

According to MetaWiki a bureaucrat can promote a user to admin (or 'crat) status, but not the reverse. I have just successfully changed User:Arne List from administrator to autopatroller. Is this a bug or a new function? SemperBlotto 11:19, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

That's been the case for a long time. You've even asked about it before, and everyone agreed that we weren't bothered by it. —RuakhTALK 13:47, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
See Wiktionary:Grease pit archive/2010/March#Excess power for a bureaucrat. I guess "everyone" is overstatement — no one in that conversation seemed bothered by it, and I haven't heard of anyone being bothered by it, but I suppose I don't know how "everyone" feels, since most people haven't participated in past conversations about it. —RuakhTALK 14:20, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
I'll probably ask again next time! SemperBlotto 15:16, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Template:infl form

Per WT:RFDO#Template:infl form, would it be uncontroversial for me to convert {{infl form|ca|verb}} to {{infl|ca|verb form}}? Some other replacements may be more complicated and require more thought. Mglovesfun (talk) 14:29, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't think that would be any problem. :) —CodeCat 14:56, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
I've replaced the Latin forms, by replacing {{infl form|la|adjective| with {{infl|la|adjective form|. I think that's all of them now. —CodeCat 12:14, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
You might have lost some data like that; I considered doing this too but the two templates aren't identical. Nevertheless if it's orphaned I will delete it; fixing the remaining entries does not mean going back to {{infl form}}, just fixing {{infl}} in those entries. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:59, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Watchlist bug

Since the update of MediaWiki, whether or not a page I edit goes to my watchlist is arbitrary and unpredictable. --Daniel. 06:00, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Serbo-croat words of foreign origin

Is there any way I can draw out all the Serbo-croat words in Wiktionary of foreign origin? If not, can I draw out all the Serbo-croat words which have Wiktionary entries?—This comment was unsigned.

A list of all main entries is at Index:Serbo-Croatian (also Index:Serbian, Index:Croatian).​—msh210 (talk) 18:23, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
Category:sh:Etymology? Mglovesfun (talk) 18:52, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Links in form of templates

I asked at User talk:Conrad.Irwin#My vector.js how to set up my vector.js to de-link terms inside {{plural of}} and other templates. Msh210 correctly pointed out that KassadBot adds a link inside {{plural of}} when no link is present and {{plural of}} is to make the page count work. Would it not be best to avoid links in templates when possible, and use {{count page}} instead? I'm not suggesting ALL such links be removed, just that we shouldn't encourage it. Mglovesfun (talk) 01:02, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

I would prefer {{count page}}, because it makes it easier to change the templates in the future without having to fix all the linked forms. —CodeCat 01:21, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Ditto. Especially, I prefer it when the template adds #English or whatnot (it's better than a manual link like [[foo]], which doesn't section-link, and a manual link like [[foo#English|foo]], which does section-link but is ugly hardcoding IMHO). —RuakhTALK 02:21, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
I would even prefer it if the template didn't create a link directly but would use {{lx}} or {{l}}. —CodeCat 10:15, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Do we need the "link count"? Can't we just say that the official page count is the total page count? Are there any pages in the main namespace that we don't want to count? --LA2 14:09, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:only in. Mglovesfun (talk) 17:54, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
O.K., but that's only a few hundred entries — less than 0.1% of our mainspace pages. Does it really make a difference? —RuakhTALK 19:09, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
I think it would be better, to use {{count page}}, because thus the entries without any other [[ are easy to find. Those who want can then improve the entries by adding the etymology (even for inflected forms: the etymology is stem + ending) or synonyms or similar, with [[. - -sche 19:55, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Category links within IF statements within templates

I have added two conditional category statements to Template:el-noun adding relevant nouns to Category:Greek nouns of common gender and Category:Greek invariable nouns. Editing/creating a word (eg μαθηματικός adds it to the appropriate category - however viewing and not editing a prexisting word (eg υπάλληλος) shows the category at bottom of screen but it is not added to the category. Will this be put right as it works through the system? —Saltmarshαπάντηση 07:07, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, assuming it was done right (which looks to be the case).​—msh210 (talk) 08:11, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
FYI msh210 diff. Mglovesfun (talk) 14:13, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Template:in plural

To me this is a bit ungrammatical, I would always say in the plural. Can we rename it to {{in the plural}}? Mglovesfun (talk) 11:58, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

patrolling script not working?

Connel's script doesn't seem to be automatically patrolling script-whitelisted edits any longer. Moreover, clicking on the "mark" or "marked" links leads to an error message.​—msh210 (talk) 17:13, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

I have the same, but no error messages; clicking the links displays 'marked' bu in fact doesn't markt them, as clicking refresh still shows them as unpatrolled. Mglovesfun (talk) 17:15, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
The problem seems to be that the action=markpatrolled now have (and I assume need) token= in them also. Any ideas on how that token is generated, whether the script can find/generate it? (Note that, for a single patroller, there seems to be precisely one token per diff. I don't know whether a single diff has different tokens for different patrollers, though I doubt it would.) Roan Kattouw has said on IRC that it's possible to get the token from the API's list=recentchanges module. Can that be implemented in Connel's script?​—msh210 (talk) 19:08, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
Edit tokens are in Wiktionary's cookies. This tool should probably be rolled into editor, then you can access it using the editor interface. The auto-refresh part is also broken, probably all due to the new Mediawiki-JavaScript "let's break all the wikis" initiative. - TheDaveRoss 20:36, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
Unfortunately, as it turns out, the patrol-token from the API's list=recentchanges module is the one that the API's action=patrol module expects, which is not the same as the one that the regular UI uses and expects. What's more, the API's action=patrol module requires a POST request. The upshot is, I didn't want to try to hack this into User:Connel MacKenzie/patrolled.js, so I instead hacked it into a new User:Ruakh/patrolled.js. It's kind of ugly, but um, so was the old one. :-P   It works for me, but I haven't tested it across multiple browsers or multiple systems or anything. Please give it a whirl, by adding
to Special:MyPage/common.js. If you find any problems, feel free to fix them; if you find any problems you can't or don't want to fix, please let me know. Also, feel free to make it look less ugly, if you have any thoughts on how to do that.
(By the way: after any changes to that script, you'll most likely have to hard-refresh <http://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=User:Ruakh/patrolled.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript> in order to see the effect of the changes.)
RuakhTALK 21:29, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
Oh, and — be sure to turn off the auto-patrolling pref. The two do not play very well together. (More "incredibly ugly" than "broken", but still.) —RuakhTALK 23:36, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
Looks good and works here. (But I haven't yet seen it in use on whitelisted pages.) Thanks for your work on this. Barring bad to-be-reported bugs, I suggest this be the default patrolling script, wherever Connel's is linked to. (PREFS, I guess?)​—msh210 (talk) 19:56, 21 April 2011 (UTC) 22:09, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
Would it be easy to add code that does the same as the CSS abbr.unpatrolled{display:none}, as the red exclamation points are redundant?​—msh210 (talk) 18:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
Yes check.svg DoneRuakhTALK 19:44, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
Thanks!​—msh210 (talk) 19:45, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
It doesn't have a 'mark' link/'marked' notification for LiquidThreads posts (or at least not for this one).​—msh210 (talk) 21:41, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, I know; see mw:Thread:Extension talk:LiquidThreads/Marking an LT comment as "patrolled"?. It's not trivial to fix, and I'm not sure how much effort it's worth. —RuakhTALK 22:46, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
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Template:first-person singular of

This template categorizes very different from {{third-person singular of}}, in [[Category:<langname> verb first-person forms]] and [[Category:<langname> verb singular forms]]. I don't like it, maybe just in 'verb forms' or [[Category:<langname> verb first-person singular forms]]. Mglovesfun (talk) 13:52, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

{{second-person singular of}} does the same. Mglovesfun (talk) 13:53, 25 February 2011 (UTC)


Looking at whatlinkshere, I'm quite surprised how many English entries use infl, instead of the numerous English templates.

Is there a way to get a list of English entries that use {{infl}}? -- Prince Kassad 15:57, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

See User:Prince Kassad/en-infl. (Technical details: I scanned the last dump — from about three weeks ago — for /\{\{\s*infl\s*\|\s*en\b/. The result was huge, so I then filtered out all the cases where the page-name contained a space, which made it about half as huge. If you want those as well, I can put them on a separate page.) —RuakhTALK 16:31, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. That will keep me busy for now (it sure is huge), and entries with spaces are mostly idioms which need infl treatment. -- Prince Kassad 16:40, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
There's a section in User:Mglovesfun/vector.js dedicated to this sort of thing, for instance it turns {{infl|en|noun}} into {{en-noun|?}} so as to not automatically created an -s plural form. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:47, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
How much harm results from use of {{infl}} in this way? DCDuring TALK 17:04, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
It is inconsistent, if anything. Also, {{infl|en|noun}} doesn't tell the reader whether the noun is countable or not. -- Prince Kassad 17:19, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
{{en-noun}} needs an additional parameter to distinguish between cases where contributors have found that there is no attestable plural and those where no contributor has researched the question. As it is now Category:English nouns with unknown or uncertain plurals must contain both. In addition, the wording of the category suggests something else: that the headword definitely has one or more plurals, which plurals are uncertain. It is unclear from the wording where the uncertainty resides: in the contributor, in the state of accepted social knowledge about the word, or in the word itself. One may be able to dismiss the last as clearly not what was intended, but it is an obvious prima facie reading. Reading the "unknown" branch of the category name gives only two readings: unknown to the contributor or unknown to the community of users or lexicographers.
I had been reluctant to recommend further complication of {{en-noun}} as long as {{infl}} was available, but challenging use of {{infl}} brings the question to the fore. DCDuring TALK 17:43, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
{{en-adj}} has only allowed {{en-adj|?}} since about a week ago, so before then anyone who wasn't sure needed to do {{infl|en|adjective}}. It's better to use a language-specific template, but not harmful not to. Mglovesfun (talk) 17:52, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Making a first careful step towards using language codes with {{proto}}

Right now, {{proto}} is one of the few remaining templates that has no support for language codes at all. And that's for a good reason, because proto-languages traditionally had no language codes on Wiktionary. More recently however we've began to use language codes for proto-languages as well, and templates such as {{lx}} and {{termx}} were introduced to allow using them. As it stands now though, there isn't really any necessary difference between {{proto}} and {{termx}}, except that the former has more elaborate display options but doesn't support language codes. I would like to see {{proto}} being discontinued altogether, and replaced with a combination of {{etyl}} and {{termx}}, but it will probably be a while before that can be done if it will be done at all. So instead, I would like to propose bringing the two templates a little closer together by allowing {{proto}} to be used with language codes as well. That would mean that {{proto|gem|dagaz}} would be permitted alongside {{proto|Germanic|dagaz}}. —CodeCat 17:17, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

I'd support it somewhat. It still needs to accept Germanic, Polynesian, etc. in my opinion. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:46, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
Oh sure, it will still accept those. But it will accept language codes as well if they're given. Some language families don't have codes yet, in any case. —CodeCat 14:58, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
I've made the change now. I hope it doesn't break anything, sorry if it does! —CodeCat 00:12, 4 March 2011 (UTC)


Anyone have an idea on why it doesn't categorize into anything? I made my bot auto-replace infl|en|suffix with this, then I discovered it adds no categories on its own and so leaves the pages completely uncategorized. -- Prince Kassad 16:51, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

I just redid it. To be honest, now the template is redundant to {{infl|en|suffix}} although it does at least work now. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:45, 3 March 2011 (UTC)


I transwikied a gadget from the French Wiktionary that allows you to easily revert vandalism by multiple editors. It adds (restore) links next to items in a page's history that allow you to revert to that version. It is called MediaWiki:Gadget-FastRevert.js and is available in the Gadgets tab of Special:Preferences. —Internoob (DiscCont) 03:41, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Creating a multilingual endangered languages project

Projects are not common on Wiktionary. but they do exist: Category:Wiktionary_projects. I have an idea for calling for volunteers to contribute words from endangered languages on the English Wiktionary (and others).

The purpose of the project would be to create a centralized location for people to go to where they can learn how to create entries and deal with the various issues that occur so frequently with other languages, such as creating new language categories and dealing with diacritics and other non-English characters.

Can someone tell me what is needed to create a project and provide any other tips that might be of use?

TIA Wakablogger2 04:22, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Entries without categories

There are a lot of language sections around without categories. I'm pretty sure there aren't supposed to be any sections like that. Would someone be able to make a bot adding these entries to maintenance categories? --Yair rand (talk) 17:49, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

He'd need to add only entries not categorized for the language at all, not all entries lacking only explicit cats.​—msh210 (talk) 18:04, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
I've populated User:Yair rand/uncategorized language sections with a list of all language sections [[foo#Bar]] in the last database dump with the property that [[foo]] did not belong to any category named [[Category:Bar ...]]. Notes:
  • For obvious reasons, I ignored categories named [[Category:... derivations]]. Are there any other special cases like that?
  • The last few hundred, from [[izotz]] onward, can be ignored. They appear in the list due to a race condition: they were created after the categorylinks SQL dump was complete, but before the pages-articles XML dump was.
  • The list wouldn't notice cases where categories appear in the wrong language section (e.g., at the end of the page, but belonging to a language other than the last one). I assume that's what you had in mind when you mentioned "language sections [] without categories", but those are much harder to find.
RuakhTALK 19:06, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
Good job! Would it be possible to split it into few lists? And then into few sections? It will be easier to remove fixed entries. The file is ~450 kB long. Maro 22:07, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
...perhaps by language?​—msh210 (talk) 05:27, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
Please be BOLD in massaging the list to suit your needs. —RuakhTALK 15:59, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
Now see Special:PrefixIndex/User:Yair_rand/uncategorized_language_sections/, by language header.​—msh210 (talk) 17:06, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
Only problem (I use the word problem very loosely) is that some entries have several languages needing categories, and doing this would split them up. But yeah, I like 'by language'. Edit links would be good too, like the one's used in User:Robert Ullmann/Mismatched wikisyntax. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:03, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
NB the new links on the pages aren't edit links, just full urls as opposed to internal links. Mglovesfun (talk) 22:49, 8 March 2011 (UTC)