Talk:امرأة

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The Arabic pronunciation audio for امرأة seems to be completely wrong[edit]

It doesn't seem to match the IPA given here at all, but if you internet search for pronunciation audio (with results on sites like Forvo), those results do seem to match the IPA here. I believe the IPA given here is correct, based on my limited knowledge. So I believe the audio file should be corrected or at least removed. But I have so little knowledge of Arabic that I didn't want to remove it myself. Dancor (talk) 16:34, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

@Dancor: The soundfile uses the form with a nominative case ending, اِمْرَأَةٌ (imraʾatun). It also seems to omit the initial vowel, which is weird: /mraʔatun/. Wiktionary doesn't have control over soundfiles on Wikimedia Commons and they are added to entries automatically by bots if they have a predictable filename. This one was added by DerbethBot (diff). So probably if it is removed, the bot will just add it back. To get the file deleted, you will have to open a discussion on Wikimedia Commons. — Eru·tuon 17:10, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
@Erutuon, DerbethBot: The alif is elided after a vowel as in
دَخَلَ ٱمْرَأَةٌ الْمَدِينَةَ.‎‎ ― daḵala mraʾatun al-madīnata.A woman entered the city.
but that shouldn't be the default pronunciation. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 23:18, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
This seems to be a feature of Moroccan Arabic; cf. Moroccan Darija#Vowels. Other examples are:
اِخْتِلَاف (iḵtilāf)
اِدِّعاء (iddiʿāʾ)
اِبْتِسامَة (ibtisāma)
Wyang (talk) 23:32, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
@Wyang: Thanks but dialects don't use ʾiʿrāb, it's fuṣḥā.--Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 23:42, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
@Atitarev: But perhaps the speaker is following one of the phonological patterns of Moroccan Arabic while speaking MSA. — Eru·tuon 23:49, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
That might be the case but we don't know for sure. Besides, the label "Moroccan" probably should only be used for that variety - maḡribiyya or dārija (ary), otherwise it's confusing. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 23:55, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
“Morocco” is indeed ambiguous, I added it since we haven't merged Arabic yet. Perhaps Moroccan MSA? (Google returns very few meaningful results for this, though.) Wyang (talk) 00:03, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
I don't know for sure why the word was pronounced that way. Yes, in Moroccan dārija "woman" is "مرا". My source romanises it as "mṛa", so it's pronounced /mrɑ/. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 11:19, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
They don't really like vowels, so... maybe that's how they say it in Moroccan MSA, lol. Wyang (talk) 12:05, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
Actually many dialects omit the initial alif in these kinds of words, not just Moroccan. But I think it is more likely (without having actually listened to the recordings) that the recorder simply believes that the elidable alif is not actually part of the word, which is actually a reasonable thing to believe. --WikiTiki89 14:30, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
It's a dialectally influenced pronunciation. I suppose that teachers use such pronunciations to make the pupils mind the distinction between /i-/ and /ʔi-/ (which is generally absent from dialects and is a common cause for error). Per se, this pronunciation is non-classical.
But what does it mean when you say: "We haven't merged Arabic yet"? You're going to? All dialects and 1400 years of Fusha in one entry?! Good Lord. It was already quite problematic to have classical Arabic and MSA in one entry; but this is just... Why don't you merge Latin and all Romance languages while you're at it?
As far as I know, there is no plan to merge the Arabic dialects. I don't see how it would be possible. —Stephen (Talk) 09:51, 13 July 2018 (UTC)