Talk:Nadia

RFV discussion: October–December 2016

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Nadia

Nadia is a Greek, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Romanian, Russian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian, Serbian, Slovene, and Croatian feminine given name. I want somebody to remove the lie that it is German and Danish because it's not! (Bennyben1998 (talk) 01:44, 17 October 2016 (UTC)Bennyben1998)

I think it's as much a US name. Do names really have nationalities apart from their etymology? DCDuring TALK 10:59, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

No, Nadia is NOT a US name! (Bennyben1998 (talk) 18:33, 17 October 2016 (UTC)Bennyben1998)

@Bennyben1998, why do you think it's not a German and Danish name? Is it because the “proper” form is Nadja? Is it because it’s derived from a foreign name? — Ungoliant ^(falai) 19:12, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Nadia Zülow would probably say it's a German name, and Nadia Bjorlin and Nadia Turner would probably both say it's also an American name. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 20:50, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

I'm fairly certain all we're going to get from Bennyben1998 is blind assertions. Do we just require usage in the language for given names? I believe in fact we have no separate rules for names, so it's just attestation. Renard Migrant (talk) 20:56, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Just a little something I wanna say, I don't think that Nadia isn't a German or Danish name. I know it's not a German or Danish name. If you go to Wikipedia, it doesn't say absolutely nothing about it being German or Danish. Nadia is in no way, shape, or form a Germanic name. It is Slavic, Greek, Latin, and Arabic. (Bennyben1998 (talk) 20:26, 22 October 2016 (UTC)Bennyben1998)

But how do you know that? — Ungoliant ^(falai) 20:30, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

Well, it should be common knowledge. It doesn't even sound remotely Germanic of any form. I'm of German, Norwegian, English, Irish, and Scottish descent so I know it's no way Germanic or even Celtic, believe me. As I had also said, go to Wikipedia. There's nothing about it being a Germanic name of any form. It also irritates the living daylights out of me whenever people say Germanic and Slavic languages are related (I know you aren't doing it, I'm just saying), because the Germanic languages are more related to Celtic languages. I know they're all Indo-European languages, but Germanic and Slavic are only very distantly related. (Bennyben1998 (talk) 20:37, 22 October 2016 (UTC)Bennyben1998)

I didn't realize genetics gave people telepathic knowledge about etymology. DTLHS (talk) 20:42, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

Maybe the name Nadia has been borrowed into German and Danish from one of those other languages. —Mr. Granger (talk • contribs) 21:18, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

You mean there has been some sort of continuing contact between the Germanic and Slavic languages? Oy gevalt, that's meshuggener. --Catsidhe ^{(verba, facta)} 21:29, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

@Catsidhe: I know that usage does change with borrowing, but Jews tend to preserve the distinction between Yiddish meshuge, the adjective, and meshugener, the noun, even in English. See our entries for more: משוגע (meshuge), משוגענער (meshugener). —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 01:01, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

I know it's a tangent, but 1) I was using the English borrowings (oy gevalt and meshugener) from Yiddish to evoke Yiddish as an example of Slavic/Germanic interchange, even if none of the words I used are actually of Slavic origin, and 2) my mother-in-law's first language was Yiddish. --Catsidhe ^{(verba, facta)} 01:10, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

This whole thread is a tangent. I got 1, and 2 makes me very, very jealous. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 01:19, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

As I was saying, Germanic and Slavic languages aren't related. Germanic and Celtic languages are related instead. (Bennyben1998 (talk) 17:17, 23 October 2016 (UTC)Bennyben1998)

"Germanic and Slavic languages aren't related. Germanic and Celtic languages are related instead." Wow. Just wow. If we ever have a competition for "Most Ignorant Claim Ever Made on a Wiktionary Discussion Page", this is my nominee. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 17:58, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

“X is loaned from another language therefore it’s not a real word” is an argument that we hear often, and ignore as often. Is Johannes also not a German name because it’s from Hebrew? What about Jan, or do loans from other Germanic languages count?

There’s a major flaw in your argument: you say that Nadia is a Slavic, Greek, Latin and Arabic name, but Greek and Romance language have also borrowed it from Slavic, just like Germanic languages have. — Ungoliant ^(falai) 21:43, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

Germanic languages didn't borrow it, though. Greek and Romance languages did. And yes, Johannes and Jan are Germanic names borrowed from Hebrew but Nadia just isn't. Read Wikipedia and tell me if you saw it saying it's a Germanic name. (Bennyben1998 (talk) 23:37, 22 October 2016 (UTC)Bennyben1998)

And Wikipedia is perfect in every way, I suppose, and has no omissions. Why are we discussing this, it's going nowhere? Let's just cite it and be done with it. Renard Migrant (talk) 23:39, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

I'm only wondering, when will the German and Danish part finally be taken out of the Nadia page? And for the record, behindthename says nothing about it being Germanic as well. (Bennyben1998 (talk) 17:06, 23 October 2016 (UTC)Bennyben1998)

English is a Germanic language is Nadia English? Not all names in Germanic languages have to come from Germanic. What about Helen, is that an English name? Is not Germanic it's from Ancient Greek. Ditto Philip. I could go on but I won't. The answer to your question is they will be removed if and when they fail rfv. The same as any other entry listed on rfv. Renard Migrant (talk) 17:38, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

• I've added three quotations each for German and Danish. —Mr. Granger (talk • contribs) 17:55, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

Bennyben has been insisting on removing Germanic sections from other names. I’ve blocked him for a day. — Ungoliant ^(falai) 18:15, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

This is his second block specifically for messing with Nadia. Equinox ◑ 18:21, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

Oh and another problem with that page that I forgot to mention was the whole twentieth century thing. That's actually even more inaccurate if you ask me. I mean, it's been used since about the Middle Ages. Why has nobody responded to this yet? Someone PLEASE respond to this! Also, explain to me how "Germanic and Slavic languages aren't related, Germanic and Celtic languages are related instead" is an ignorant statement. What on Earth is it gonna take for someone to respond to this?! (Bennyben1998 (talk) 19:41, 27 October 2016 (UTC)Bennyben1998)

You seem to be confusing a lot of different things. The fact that you're trying to link the two language families indigenous to the British Isles and exclude the Slavic languages suggests that you're going by physical or cultural resemblance rather than linguistic relatedness. Languages aren't the same as ethnicities: Jessie Jackson and David Duke both are native speakers of English, which is a Germanic language, while the Finnish people speak a language that's completely unrelated to English, in spite of being white Europeans. The Slavic languages are as much a part of the Indo-European language family as the Celtic languages, and actually have more in common with the Germanic languages than the Celtic languages do.

You keep trying to change the etymology of the English term to say it dates back to the Middle Ages. Yes, На́дя (Nádja)), has been used in Russian for a long time. It was much later borrowed by French, from which it was borrowed by English. The borrowing into English apparently happened in the twentieth century, so that's the beginning of its history as English. The medieval dates you're fixating on may be appropriate for Russian На́дя (Nádja) (I wouldn't know), but not for English Nadia.

As far as whether Nadia is English or Danish or German: if someone asks you where the name came from, of course you would answer that it's a Russian name. But keep in mind that if native speakers of English or Danish or German are giving that name to their children, it's part of those languages, too- and it can truthfully be said to be English or Danish or German. I've met people named Nadia whose parents were native English speakers, so I have no doubt whatsoever that it's now an English name.

All that you've been telling us so far is utterly irrelevant: you keep saying things like "it just isn't" and insisting that we look at sources that are concerned only with the origin of the name, when the issue is where the name has ended up, and whether it has become part of the languages in question. Simply showing that you're wrong hasn't accomplished anything, because you've been filtering everything through unspoken wrong assumptions and it hasn't really reached you. We haven't explained it in terms you understand simply because figuring out where exactly your unspoken assumptions have gone wrong takes more time and effort than it's really worth. Chuck Entz (talk) 04:40, 21 December 2016 (UTC)