Talk:communism

Noun

In the "noun" it was said that any philosopy controlling production is communism. That would mean that Nazi's were communist. A bit contradicting I would say? The original philosophy was class-equality. I have put this in. Of course, most of the time it's not the case, but any searcher would soon stumble on Stalinism, our audience is not dumb of course:).

PS: I have stressed "advocates" to make things clear.

Usage Notes

A: The usage notes are false. Please remove the "That's communism" section.

B: In what way are they false? I can name several occations when I have heard it used this way. Maybe the usage is not as widely used as it was during the 1950s but it was, and still is, used. Maybe it's restricted to certain parts of the country and not found in your area. You should do some research before refuting someone's work. Might I suggest starting at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_scare

A: I might suggest that you trace our IP addresses and realize that we both are in the same area. Looking at the Red scare article, I did not see any evidence that would support putting this in the dictionary. Several occasions is not enough to put it in a dictionary that has a global focus. It is an illegitimate entry.

B: We talk to different people from different places. You can't deny the possibility, or rather fact, that people use the word communism in the way presribed in this article. I first learned of the usage from a guy born in Arkansas.

A: Perhaps if you could support your argument from some kind of colloquial/slang resource such as Urban Dictionary, you could find stronger evidence in favor of it. "A guy born in Arkansas" is hardly sufficient evidence for the dictionary.

B: Many terms are used in ways that are not recorded in dictionaries. For example, the word "own" in the Oxford Dictionary means "1 possess. 2 admit or acknowledge that something is the case. 3 (own up) admit to having done something wrong or embarrassing." The Oxford Dictionary fails to recognize the widely used colloquial meaning; I quote from the Wiktionary, "3. (transitive) To defeat. I will own my enemies." This proves that many colloquial terms are not recognized in even urban dictionaries. This also furthers my point that the colloquial usage of the word communism may be restricted to certain areas and certain people, yet one cannot deny the existance of such usage.

A: Realize though, that "own" is a very commonly used term, encountered by almost anyone who in online gaming. You have given the example of the Oxford Dictionary not, as I recommended, from the Urban Dictionary. "Own" is present there. The usage of communism as in "That's Communism" is not. Your argument is fallacious and serves only to prove that the usage does not belong.

Talk from rfv

Usage notes

I have deleted the Usage note. It's mere nonsense. No evidence what so ever is used to support it, except from "personal experience". That a group against Communism would refer to it as something negative is logical, but that does not mean we have to include it in the dictionary. Some see it as their "savior" and others as "evil". Including any of it would mean loss of objectivity. --83.84.138.101 12:08, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

• Beginning in the 1950's, the term communism was used to describe something negative. This usage is very similar to the way the word gay is used. This practice is derived from the fact that people, during the Red Scare, accused those they disliked of being communists for ludicrous reasons. For example, when a test is difficult or unfair, one can say, "That's communism." This colloquial usage is restricted primarily to American English.

This usage is really not common enough to merit its inclusion.

— This unsigned comment was added by 69.154.224.77 (talk) at 20:17, September 25, 2006.

It is the most common usage of the word. --Connel MacKenzie 06:18, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't recall hearing it alone in that sense ever, though there are some here in London who clearly assume it will be understood with a negative connotation, just as there are others who assume negative connotations for American. I think that "restricted primarily to American English" is probably true. --Enginear 13:12, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

From the place and time that gave us "commie pinko bastard."  :-) I would refine the usage note to indicate conditions that are perceived as oppressive, overly arbitrary, or totalitarian, rather than just negative. You wouldn't, for example, use the term to describe your bad luck at the races, e.g. "I just lost $100! That's Communism!" Perhaps this should even be an additional (US specific) def? --Jeffqyzt 14:31, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I think that this sense is US ONLY. Παρατηρητής

Speaking as a lifelong US citizen, I have never heard the phrase "That's communism" used as a way to say something is unfair. It gets used very negatively. More like the word terrorism or terrorists or Islam are used in a collective sense now.--Halliburton Shill 18:12, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

<JOKE> I think you've perhaps led a sheltered life then.  :-) </JOKE> Seriously though, how could you have not heard this? The term is still tossed about in exactly this manner. --Connel MacKenzie 19:29, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough. So there's no question, I've never heard/read/seen via any media communism used as "that's communism" or communism used in any way that would suggest it's being used to say something is unfair and only unfair. It could be taken as a connotation in other uses, but never the primary meaning. I did not, however, live during the 50s. Besides, the point of verification is for the claimer to produce evidence of the claimed usage, not for everyone else to recite their life history. With all the supposed tossing, I'm sure few quotes can be cought and referenced.--Halliburton Shill 05:30, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I've added a new, US specific, sense (but not removed the usage note) at the article. Cites added there. All cites were from the first page of Google Books hits for "that's communism" [1]; there may be better ones out there if someone wants to go digging. --Jeffqyzt 11:38, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

It depends on perspective, ideologically speaking. In South Africa, pre 1994, communism, was regarded as a political evil. In Afrikaans the red scare has an equivilent rooi gevaar. In Thacherist England, communism was perceived by many as a wicked ideology. Times have changed. I don't think it is only or even primarily American (although the US trumpets itself as the bastion of Capitalism). It is merely a dated political perspective. Communism is now a (mostly) a dead ideology. China, Russia and its satelites have moved to a capitalist based economy. With the fall of the Wall and the end of the cold war communism has largely ceased to be the monster under Capital's bed. I am however leaving the usage note unchanged, and directing the reader to the talk page. Andrew massyn 05:35, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

The form of the economy should not be a idicator of an ideology in a state. Communism is more than worldly totalitarian states. As this entry states, the goal of communism is absence of the state. China communist? I suppose not, but let's not be hasty. Can you build communism in the desert? -I would not recommend it, you'll run out of sand in no time User:Mallerd (Zeg et es meisje) 11:06, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

A Different Definition

Here's the following definition by the Society of Classical Poets:

"Communism, including its first phase (socialism), is an ideology based on destroying harmony among social classes and eliminating traditional beliefs and moral values."

Thanks for considering. --Apisite (talk) 12:40, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

Not neutral in tone. Equinox ◑ 12:43, 30 April 2021 (UTC)