Talk:neiyt

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All b.g.c hits are scannos of either neigt or neige. There don't seem to be any legitimate hits. -- Prince Kassad 18:33, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

This appears plausible to me, even if I don't find any traces of the nominative form in the net. That alone does not make it a non-word as Karelian is spoken by relatively few people in a backward part of Russia, and there's not so much of it in internet. But I found some uses of the inflected forms in quite noteworthy pieces of Finnish literature:

• the nominative plural has been used by the poet Eino Leino in his popular poem "Joulun neiet":

Kulkevat korkeat neiet kolme kautta talvisen taivaan

kylvävät lahjoja ihmislasten murheeseen ja vaivaan

tekevät rikkaan rikkaammaksi, rakkaammaksi rakkaan

heittävät mieronkin mittelijälle kannikan kerjuuvakkaan.

• the nominative plural and genitive singular "neien" appear several times in Kalevala, e.g. in its 24th poem:

Silloin seppo Ilmarinen koppoi neien korjahansa,

iski virkkua vitsalla, sanan virkkoi, noin nimesi:

"Jää hyvästi, järven rannat, järven rannat, pellon penkat,

kaikki mäntyset mäellä, puut pitkät petäjikössä,

tuomikko tuvan takana, katajikko kaivotiellä,

kaikki maassa marjan varret, marjan varret, heinän korret,

pajupehkot, kuusenjuuret, lepän lehvät, koivun kuoret!"

• in another collection of old folk poems, "Kanteletar", the allative case is used in a poem Suomettaren synty ja kosijat" ("The birth of Finnish Maiden and her suitors") describing the creation of Finland:

Hierelevi, hautelevi,

Muna muuttui neitoseksi,

Mikä neielle nimeksi--

Sorsatarko, Suometarko?

Ei ole Sorsatar soria,

Suometar nimi soria.

These examples are from the period of "national romanticism" when the artists were seeking the roots of Finnish culture in Carelia which was regarded unspoilt by foreign influences. Therefore it's also plausible that the word should be Karelian. It's close enough to Finnish words (deprecated template usage) neitsyt and (deprecated template usage) neiti to be borrowed into some pieces of Finnish literature. It should probably be tagged "archaic", "poetic" or both but I'm quite convinced that the word exists. --Hekaheka 03:13, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Further research revealed that this word is mentioned in the foreword to 1909 edition of Kalevala as an example of the Karelian language feature of adding -ut and -yt endings to certain words when they are used in poetry. Other examples of this form mentioned in this source: (deprecated template usage) reki > reyt, (deprecated template usage) käki > käyt, (deprecated template usage) vesi < veyt, (deprecated template usage) kivi > kivyt, (deprecated template usage) meri > meryt, (deprecated template usage) neiti > neiyt, (deprecated template usage) veli > veljyt, (deprecated template usage) lehti > lehyt, (deprecated template usage) kesä > kesyt, (deprecated template usage) päivä > päivyt, (deprecated template usage) marja > marjut, (deprecated template usage) sampo > sammut, (deprecated template usage) sydän > syämmyt etc. Many of these forms have been used in Finnish poetry, e.g. neiyt, veljyt, päivyt, kuuhut, yöhyt, immyt. At least one has entered standard Finnish: (deprecated template usage) tiehyt --Hekaheka 05:44, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

What language is it??? --Mglovesfun (talk) 13:29, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Originally Karelian, but also Finnish due to its use in poetry. One hundred years ago, when the poems cited above were written, Karelian was regarded as a dialect of Finnish, and many Karelian words were adopted into Finnish during the heyday of Karelianism. I noticed that it was categorized as Estonian noun and corrected that. I also added a new Finnish section. I'm not an expert in Karelian and it appears that I made a mistake above. The forms neien, neiet, neielle are not forms of neiyt but an alternative declension for the synonymous word (deprecated template usage) neiti. But the second comment beginning "Further research reveals.." is still valid. --Hekaheka 17:29, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Looks passed to me. I'll remove rfv-tag, categorize also the Karelian word as "poetic" and copy this discussion to the Discussion page of the entry. --Hekaheka 16:32, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

RFC discussion. - -sche (discuss) 01:54, 1 March 2012 (UTC)