Talk:package

RFV discussion: January–February 2015

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package

"The art of packing something." How would this be used? "She's very good at package"?! Equinox ◑ 00:57, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

OED does have this sense with quotations; though the sense is listed now as "historical." —JohnC5 ^{(Talk | contribs)} 01:12, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

I've now added some citations. —JohnC5 ^{(Talk | contribs)} 01:40, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

I've added another citation, for a total of three. —Mr. Granger (talk • contribs) 02:00, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

MW Online has it and shows it as archaic; MW 1913 had it without restriction. Century 1911 did not have it. How was that pronounced, I wonder? DCDuring TALK 02:02, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Art or act? Renard Migrant (talk) 16:30, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

The citations strike me as uncountable. The definitions that others have are more or less "the act or process of packing", which could be both countable and uncountable, but is probably uncountable. DCDuring TALK 18:09, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

@DCDuring re pronunciation: according to 1906/1907 New American Encyclopedic Dictionary, which gives "the act of packing goods or wares" (without any indication of datedness) as the first of three senses of package (the others being "a pack" and "a charge made for packing goods"), it's pronounced păck'-age (age as ɪġ). Based on how they notate pack (păck) and scavage scăv'-age (age as ɪġ), that seems to equate to IPA^(key): /ˈpæk.ɪdʒ/. - -sche (discuss) 19:28, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

I'll see if I can add that dictionary to my list of favorites. The "art" in the definition made me wonder whether it had a French-derived pronunciation, like IPA^(key): /ˈpæk.ɑʒ/. DCDuring TALK 19:54, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

(This is straying from the subject of whether or not this is attested, but) according to the 1914 Century, this is the original sense — that dictionary gives the etymology as "Old French pacquage (“the act of packing”)", which contradicts our etymology. Renard, can you shed any light on whether Old French had such a term? - -sche (discuss) 19:12, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Btw, the New American Encyclopedic Dictionary mentioned above derives the term from English pack (verb) + -age. - -sche (discuss) 19:28, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

But they could just be allowing an ahistorical, morphological approach to usurp a proper etymology, as happens sometimes. DCDuring TALK 19:54, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Our etymology is suspiciously close to that at Douglas Harper (2001–2024) “package”, in Online Etymology Dictionary.. DCDuring TALK 19:57, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

The OED also says pack + -age, and continues "Compare post-classical Latin paccagium (1299, c1335 in British sources), Middle French, French pacquage (1583, rare)". The first sense is "The action of packing goods, etc.; spec. (now hist.) the privilege of overseeing the packing of certain categories of cloth or other goods". Dbfirs 21:26, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Godefroy has a definition and a single 1583 citation, which supports the OED. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Godefroy dictionary is the source of the OED etymology. Renard Migrant (talk) 13:38, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

You could be right there, though the earliest cite in the OED is from 1510 (State Papers Henry VIII) before the first recorded use of the rare French pacquage. Dbfirs 10:24, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

RFV-passed. - -sche (discuss) 23:26, 5 February 2015 (UTC)