Talk:raisin sec

RFD

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raisin sec

Indeed, a raisin is just a "dried grape". But that doesn't make it deserving of an entry meaning just "dried grape", does it? We can keep the translation and just link each word separately, and get rid of this SOP entry. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 18:13, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

• Keep, strictly speaking this means "dry grape", not "dried grape" (which would be raisin séché). If you wash a grape and dry it off with a paper towel, it's a [[raisin]] [[sec]] but not a [[raisin sec]]. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 07:10, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

  Delete. French uses sec for other dried fruits as well, nothing special about grapes. --WikiTiki89 18:01, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

  Indeed, fr:sec does have this meaning. Renard Migrant (talk) 19:02, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

  And yet fr:raisin sec is considered entryworthy and is glossed "Grain de raisin séché." And a raisin sec doesn't stop being a raisin sec just because it gets wet. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 19:19, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

  Your second point is irrelevant now that we've established that sec is being used with a different meaning (i.e. the meaning of "having had its moisture evaporated"). --WikiTiki89 19:34, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

  But we don't have that sense of sec. I also note that http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/raisin considers a separate sense for raisin sec desirable; it even distinguishes between "Raisin(s) séché(s) au soleil ou à l'aide d'une source de chaleur artificielle" and, by metonymy, "grains de raisin ainsi séchés". I admit I'm not sure what the distinction between raisin(s) and grains de raisin is, though. (By contrast, http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/banane, http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/pomme, and http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/abricot do not have separate lines for "banane sèche", "pomme sèche", and "abricot sec", suggesting that their lexicographers feel that there is something more lexical about raisin sec than about other dried fruits. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 19:55, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

  We do now. As to other dictionaries, I've never been a fan of WT:LEMMING. --WikiTiki89 20:10, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

  I'm a fan. If we don't have LEMMING (which, btw, needs a name change to something more positive), there will be dictionaries that have entries that we don't, and therefore people will use those dictionaries and not ours. Purplebackpack89 01:08, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

• Keep: We need ways to explain that raisin in English and raisin in French aren't exactly the same thing. Keeping this entry is one of those things. Purplebackpack89 17:58, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

  That's why we have separate English and French sections for raisin. If we can't explain the difference adequately there, having an entry for raisin sec won't help. Chuck Entz (talk) 04:02, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Isn’t this a special sense of sec that can be used with any fruit? — Ungoliant ^(falai) 19:22, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Yes, and seemingly other foods, such as fish, as well. --WikiTiki89 19:37, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

• Keep since this seems to be the main or only way to say "raisin" in French, and "raisin" is a single word with many single-word translations. --Dan Polansky (talk) 11:18, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

  @Dan Polansky: Since when was that a criterion? --WikiTiki89 16:58, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

  It's not in CFI. It's one of those ad-hoc criteria that some people use to salvage some sum of part entries, based on the widespread notion that the principle that "each and every sum of parts entry shall be excluded " is to be rejected. --Dan Polansky (talk) 17:02, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

• Delete, having a SOP entry in a foreign language is confusing, leading people like me to scratch their heads as to why it exists. Siuenti (talk) 15:52, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Keep per my previous comment, which seems to have been accidentally deleted. Renard Migrant (talk) 21:59, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

@Renard Migrant: What was you previous comment? --WikiTiki89 18:18, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Keep. There's a difference between raisin sec and raisin séché. --Hekaheka (talk) 18:13, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Delete. It's a common collocation, but that doesn't make it non-SOP. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 01:34, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

• RFD kept as no consensus for deletion, after more than 2 months have elapsed. --Dan Polansky (talk) 08:26, 12 March 2016 (UTC)