Talk:shark fin

RFV discussion: January 2014–July 2015

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shark fin

Rfv-sense "To remove the fin from a shark, usually for use in cooking." The more correct form is "to fin a/the shark(s)". The gerund "shark finning" and the agent noun "shark finner" definitely exist and are not being RFVed. --WikiTiki89 06:41, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Very common pattern of noun-verb conversion. Nothing guarantees that the process will lead to shark fin#Verb. You would think that such a verb could not be used intransitively and that the object would always be a shark. Something like "The fishermen sharkfin makos when ever they find them in their nets" might exist in the wild, but "The fishermen fin makos when ever they find them in their nets" seems more likely. DCDuring TALK 13:40, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

I suppose there could be uses such as "He shark fins all day," but I haven't found any. --WikiTiki89 18:50, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Found one:

1. • 2008, Paul J. Mila, Fireworks, AuthorHouse, page 42:

     “Yes, perhaps long-liners or poachers illegally shark finning. […] ”

— Ungoliant ^(falai) 14:37, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

I had accepted that we need to attest to the present-tense or 'infinitive' forms, I don't think that is really true. If manner adverbs, like illegally in Ungoliant's example, modify a form of shark fin or there is a true past or passive, that would seem to be sufficient evidence that it is used as a true verb. DCDuring TALK 14:47, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

The poachers quotation above seems good; the poachers were illegally shark finning; "they were swimming" attests "swimming" as an inflected form of "to swim", unlike "swimming is my favorite sport", IMHO. DCDuring's adverb argument above seems convincing as well. --Dan Polansky (talk) 08:58, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Here’s another:

1. • 2009, Fredric Archer, The New Shark Troller’s Bible, page 188:

     Once again, at the end of the day, everywhere you looked you could see at least one shark finning on the surface.

This one is ambiguous; it could be a verb ( […] at least one [of them] shark finning on the surface.), referring to finners mentioned in a previous sentence, or it could be a noun ( […] at least one [instance of] shark finning on the surface.). — Ungoliant ^(falai) 15:03, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

1. • 1919, William Merriam Rouse, Peter the Devil in The Green Book Magazine, volume 22, Story-Press Association, page 22:

     […] and the nondescript few who wandered more or less aimlessly about the fifty-mile white beach that was Manaia, shark-finning, boiling bêche-de-mer, hunting hawk's-bill turtle.

Uses a hyphen. There you go: three cites, but two with issues. I’ll leave it to whoever closes the RFV to decide whether this term is verified.

If it passes, it definitely needs to be labelled rare. — Ungoliant ^(falai) 15:37, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

I would still feel more comfortable if we could attest the infinite, simple present, or past tense forms. --WikiTiki89 16:26, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

The Archer cite does not seem to be the same meaning, or even the same POS. It is a subject-verb use rather than an attributive noun-verb use. The shark is displaying his fin above the water, not chopping off his own fin with his pearly whites. SpinningSpark 18:12, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

You're right, it's talking about a shark that is "finning" (fin#Verb definition #2). --WikiTiki89 18:20, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

The Archer cite does not work as pointed out above. --Dan Polansky (talk) 08:58, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

• Here's another unambiguous one: You think the audience would be so forgiving if the fishermen were after humpback whales, or were shark finning? Usages of the infinitive, simple present, and simple past are evading me. There's a lot of interference from the noun shark fin and the adjective shark-finned. —Mr. Granger (talk • contribs) 16:44, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
  • The fishermen quotation from Usenet immediately above seems good; the fishermen were shark finning. Thus, we now have two good quotations: the poachers one and the fishermen one. --Dan Polansky (talk) 08:58, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

• • Here's a third unambiguous one: [And on the way down, we were going through Guatemalan waters when we found a Costa Rican vessel that was shark finning in Guatemalan waters.] Kiwima (talk) 02:38, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

    Is the Costa Rican Times printed, or only published online? - -sche (discuss) 01:39, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

    Apparently not. RFV-failed. - -sche (discuss) 22:23, 7 July 2015 (UTC)