Template talk:etyl

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Archives: 2008-2010

el-grc[edit]

How difficult it will be to add a parameter if {{etyl|grc|el}} and the "el" and "grc" are same, that will add something like:{{term|{{{PAGENAME}}}|lang=grc|sc=polytonic}} ? so that will be no need write again (and mistake...) the lemma? --Xoristzatziki (talk) 04:55, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

That could be done, but I'm not sure it would be very useful: it couldn't be used for words that have lost a breathing mark or other accent, and it would be less than ideal for words that have changed meaning at all (since then you'd want to give some indication of what the Ancient Greek sense was), and for that matter, I think it's less than ideal even for words that haven't changed meaning, since we'd still want to give the transliteration of the Ancient Greek. —RuakhTALK 12:00, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
Agreed. There are a great many cases where the words are spelled differently, if only slightly. This would not be a worthwhile addition to the template. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 12:21, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

There are still many words in which it will be useful. Also it will be very useful the same thing for latin words. A parameter like "s" or "same" that will lead to the same lemma (of course to the first etymol. parameter). --Xoristzatziki (talk) 06:09, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

The thing is . . . if the lemmata are really absolutely identical, then you can just copy-and-paste the current page-name. Or if you're really worried about even that, then you can use {{subst:PAGENAME}}. It's really hard to imagine the editor who's so incompetent as to be unable to do that, but who will happily and properly add the s or same parameter in exactly the situations where it's correct to do so — keeping in mind that if the editor uses it somewhere where it's not quite right (for example, because the Latin etyl contains a long vowel that we'd like to indicate with a macron), it will be much more likely that others will have difficulty fixing it, because it won't be obvious where the error is coming from unless they already know about this behavior of {{etyl}}. —RuakhTALK 12:10, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Category:Etyl without second param[edit]

And the reason CodeCat can't have her cleanup category is...? In English sections, I notice many editors already adding <tt>|en}}</tt> to param-less {{etyl}}s... and such a category could also be an easy way of finding non-Latin-script and hence non-English param-less etyls. I'm in favour of it... - -sche (discuss) 18:28, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Firstly, it's not a "cleanup category" if the goal is to unilaterally change large numbers of entries from one standard practice to another. (Consider this compromise: CodeCat gets to have a cleanup category of entries where {{etyl}} is missing a second parameter, so she can change it to en, if I get to have a cleanup category of entries where its second parameter is en, so I can remove it. Would that be a good compromise? If not, why not?)
Secondly, even if there were consensus that {{etyl}}'s second parameter should always be specified, there are currently 1.8 gazillion entries where it isn't. This would clearly be a task for a bot, not a cleanup category. (Once a bot-pass handled the 99% of cases that are reasonably straightforward, then a cleanup category would be useful for the future.) CodeCat, despite her programming ability, is apparently unwilling to learn how to analyze the XML dumps; I don't know why, but whatever. It's her right. But this unwillingness doesn't grant her the right to do crazy things. (By analogy: we can't compel anyone to learn our formatting conventions, but we don't allow them to edit in contravention of those conventions. If they refuse to learn, then they're restricted to edits that don't require learning.)
RuakhTALK 18:46, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Can we include hyperlinks to languages[edit]

I am wondering if we can change this template so that when the language is mentioned as being the ancestor of a term that it provides a link to a page about that.

For example {{etyl|odt|nl}} says "Old Dutch" rather than "Old Dutch" which would allow someone to easily look it up. Etym (talk) 17:49, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

See Wiktionary:Beer parlour/2012/November#Using etyl with "-" as language. —RuakhTALK 23:16, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

I detest the restored hyperlinks to language names. They make etymology sections look like blue-red Christmas trees. --Vahag (talk) 22:10, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

The colours may be distracting, but the links themselves are certainly useful. We abandoned the practice of linking to language names elsewhere, but for etymologies I think it's a good idea to include them. Because unlike uses elsewhere on Wiktionary, in etymologies it's necessary to understand the language names to understand the etymology. If someone were to come across a word that says "from Nahuatl", not that many people would know what Nahuatl is so they'd still be kind of in the dark. The link helps them by telling them what it is. —CodeCat 22:26, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Question: how should this template be used in an etymology chain?[edit]

For example, suppose it should look like this:

From Middle English qwerty, from Latin querti.

Should we write:

From {{etyl|enm|en}} {{m|enm|qwerty}}, from {{etyl|la|en}} {{m|la|querti}}.

Or:

From {{etyl|enm|en}} {{m|enm|qwerty}}, from {{etyl|la|enm}} {{m|la|querti}}.

Or something else still? —This unsigned comment was added by 80.114.147.138 (talk).

As in your first example, otherwise incorrect categories get added to the page. — Ungoliant (falai) 21:57, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. Could you update the documentation to clarify this, and perhaps add a properly formatted example? I'm sure future editors will appreciate it. —This unsigned comment was added by 80.114.147.138 (talk).

Done. Can you check if it’s understandable enough? — Ungoliant (falai) 15:03, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

I think it's perfect.

Other etymology templates[edit]

I think the documentation should be a bit more up-front as to when to use the other etymology templates:

{{bor}} {{cog}} {{der}} {{inh}}

Perhaps with an example in each case, near the top of the documentation.

iPad bug[edit]

Discussion moved to Wiktionary:Grease pit/2016/June#iPad_bug_re_Arabic_characters.

Clean-up category[edit]

This template places all articles it's used on in a clean-up category, but in many cases there is no way to replace it because its replacements use formatting that isn't compatible with its uses, for example in etymology chains and textual descriptions of a word's history. This makes the category next to useless and it wastes the time of people who see the category and try to replace etyl, only to discover that its replacements won't work. —This unsigned comment was added by 80.114.146.117 (talk) at 13:51, 16 August 2016.

Unless I'm missing something, it's always replaceable. But unless this has failed RFD, there's no reason to replace it and it's a perfectly valid alternative to all the other templates that do the same thing. And right now, there's a lot of them. Renard Migrant (talk) 14:07, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
I asked this (admittedly after the month had passed) at the Grease Pit before, but: what does one need to do to create dedicated by-language cleanup categories? Do I have to ask someone with bot privileges? --Tropylium (talk) 15:09, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Addition for languages whose cleanup is done[edit]

@Erutuon The following can be added just above the line with the list of languages:

-->|br={{#invoke:debug|error|The {{temp|etyl}} template is deprecated. Please use {{temp|der}}, {{temp|inh}} or {{temp|bor}}.}}<!--

This line would contain all languages which have already been cleaned up, to show an error message whenever someone tries to add it to an entry in that language. —Rua (mew) 18:38, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

@CodeCat: I've done that, and added other language codes whose categories are currently empty. — Eru·tuon 19:48, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
Would you happen to know what happens if a code is in both lists? I hoped that the error one would take precedence, that's why I suggested placing it above the line with the existing list. —Rua (mew) 19:55, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
I did a test (see here), and it looks like the first of two identical "switch" options takes precedence. But we shouldn't have to worry about that: I did my best to make sure no code is in both lists, by cutting and pasting codes from the old list to the new one. — Eru·tuon 20:16, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
Just in case, I switched the order. — Eru·tuon 20:18, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
Yeah, someone might not pay attention and then accidentally add a code to one list without removing it from the other. This makes sure the behaviour in that case is what is desired. —Rua (mew) 20:27, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
Oh btw you forgot cy. And could you add dum, gml, got, odt, ofs, osx to the categorising list? —Rua (mew) 20:29, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
Yes check.svg DoneEru·tuon 20:42, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
@Erutuon: Maybe you can add codes like da, nn, sv, pl, fr etc. even if there is no subcategory open yet? DonnanZ (talk) 21:06, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
@Donnanz: Sure. Any languages that someone wants to focus on can be added. — Eru·tuon 21:27, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
@Erutuon: Great, I'll let you add them at your leisure, I can't do it. I have come across terms for cleanup for all of those. DonnanZ (talk) 21:35, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

@Erutuon: I just added Category:etyl cleanup/es. Can you add es to the list? BTW, these subcategories seem to take a few days to fill up. Cheers. DonnanZ (talk) 10:52, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

@Donnanz: Yes check.svg Done. Yeah, I learned that when I implemented the Chinese sortkey module. — Eru·tuon 18:50, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

Could you add it and mul? And cnx, got, obt, oco, owl, se, xbm and xce can be moved to the done list. —Rua (mew) 19:48, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

Yes check.svg DoneEru·tuon 21:13, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

Four more done, gml, odt, ofs and osx. —Rua (mew) 20:20, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done. — Eru·tuon 20:26, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

Non-entry pages showing up in cleanup[edit]

A user page is appearing in Category:etyl cleanup/dum. Can the categories be wrapped in {{categorize}} so that this no longer happens? —Rua (mew) 22:42, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

If there is a reason not to update a particular user page. In this case, I doubt there is. And if we don't update it, there will be a module error when the language code dum is switched over. — Eru·tuon 23:17, 3 September 2017 (UTC)