User talk:Useigor

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Again, welcome! --Vahag (talk) 23:10, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

*daďьbogъ и *perunъ[edit]

Мы не используем заглавные буквы в реконструкциях. --WikiTiki89 12:04, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Почему? В прагерманском, например, используют. Это же имя собственное, а оно пишется с заглавной буквы. Тогда уж исправьте и *Rimъ — это же реконструкция. Забавно, что эта страница была создана CodeCat (talkcontribs). Получается, что *perunъ ("молния, гром") и *Perunъ ("бог, бьющий, ударяющий, разящий (громом и молнией)") будут на одной странице — это странно, у них же разные категории. К тому же в польском первое слово дало piorun, а второе — Perun. В общем, на мой взгляд, это только запутывает, а не упрощает словарь.—Useigor (talk) 17:29, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
Значит надо будет обсуждать в WT:BP. То, что два значения окажутся на одной странице, — легко решаемая проблема. --WikiTiki89 17:35, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Glagolitic OCS[edit]

I'm not sure if all these words are actually attested in Glagolitic. Then again, I don't know if all of them are attested in Cyrillic. But it does seem like something that might need discussion first; I don't know what the agreed practice is in cases like this. —CodeCat 19:11, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

  • @CodeCat, @Ivan Štambuk, i just noticed that Glagolica is not used in dictionaries (Derksen, ЭССЯ, Vasmer) but at same time i see that we use it. Maybe i'm wrong but i think that Glagolica is just alternative writing system to Cyrillic like Cyrillic and Latin in Serbo-Croatian. —Игорь Телкачь 19:30, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
    Both scripts are OK, regardless of attestation. Actual attestations should be provided on citation pages, and what is attestation and what transliteration/transcription should be indicated in the entry. There is no infrastructure for that in the templates just yet however, because it's PITA to research each word and set it up. In the meantime, Glagolitic is certainly not forbidden, even though they were ill-thought attempts by CodeCat to do just that. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 19:56, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
    Correction, my attempts were to treat Cyrillic as the main lemma and Glagolitic as alternative form. I don't know why you think I wanted to forbid Glagolitic or remove it, but if that's what you thought at the time it certainly explains the stubborn irrationality I got from you. —CodeCat 21:03, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
    Reducing Glagolitic spellings to soft-redirects that shouldn't be used outside specific environments for efficiency's sake is effectively forbidding it. It's not irrationality, but higher-order rationality. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 22:56, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
    I guess I was wrong, you're still making irrational claims. —CodeCat 23:26, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
    It is not surprising that you are wrong. I blame the misguided instinct to see and enforce regularity and order where there is none. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 23:46, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Appendix:Frenkish Swadesh list[edit]

Thanks for editing some parts. Frenkish is an international auxiliary language (IAL) created by David Parke based mostly on words from the Germanic language family. There's an online dictionary page and a Facebook page. He has released two PDF files (one dictionary and one grammar), both of which are under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License version 1.2. --Glennobrien (talk) 09:35, 15 December 2014 (UTC+11:00)

квас[edit]

Привет,

Как слово "квас" связано со словом "кислый"? По-польски "кислота" - kwas, "sour" - kwaśny, но это нельзя обозначить как "cognate", скорее они имеют общие корни. Мне кажется, это не совсем правильно, то, что ты написал. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 01:41, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

1) Об их связи:
Черных: "аблаут к *kys- (*kysnǫti, *kyslъ)"
ЭССЯ: "Праслав. *kvasъ и проиводный от него глагол *kvasiti родственны *kysnǫti, *kysěti, *kysiti и производным прилагательным и существительным"
Vasmer: "с другой степенью вокализма: кислый"
Сравни с *xytiti : xvatati.
2) Значение я переписал из словаря Derksen'а (с. 258), так что все вопросы насчёт правильности к нему. —Игорь Тълкачь 02:57, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
Спасибо, извини, что сразу не ответил. Посмотрю ссылки. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 01:41, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

хозяин[edit]

Привет, Игорь. Есть rfe для хозяин. Интересует? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 00:08, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Извини, не удержался, сделал сам. Можешь поучаствовать в обсуждении или добавить что-то, если нужно. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 02:57, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

кудеса, кудить[edit]

Я сделал кудеса по «Словарю русского языка XVIII века», а кудить — по «Словарю русских народных говоров». Есть ещё кудити ‘хулить, порицать; осуждать || выставлять на всеобщее осмеяние’ в «Словаре русского языка XI—XVII вв.».--Cinemantique (talk) 03:16, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

@Cinemantique, спасибо. —Игорь Тълкачь (talk) 09:55, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

jьzkonь[edit]

Аноним создал такую статью. В ЭССЯ нет этой формы. Не выдумка ли?--Cinemantique (talk) 10:46, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

@Cinemantique, поскольку он указал искони (iskoni), Serbo-Croatian ѝскон (которые согласно ЭССЯ произошло от *jьz koni), я страницу переименовал и её содержимое заново написал. —Игорь Тълкачь (talk) 08:10, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
Спасибо.--Cinemantique (talk) 08:12, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

sinjь[edit]

Прочитал эту тему. Возможно, в ЭССЯ имеется в виду существительное, от которое произошло слово синь? У Шапошникова прилагательное синий восстановлено как *син’ь(йь). Не уверен, что означает апостроф.--Cinemantique (talk) 01:25, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

@Cinemantique, синь (sinʹ) является производным (см. Черных-2-163, ср. *čьrnь < *čьrnъ [ЭССЯ-04-157]). В ЭССЯ обычно не пишется при упоминании прилагательного и по какой-то причине иногда пропускается символ для обозначения мягкости (например *kъniga*kъnjiga, *konь*konjь, *datelь*dateljь). Апостроф обозначает мягкость н, то есть *sinjь(jь) по текущим правилам. —Игорь Тълкачь (talk) 10:30, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

*oměgъ[edit]

  • Не нашёл статью об этой форме в ЭССЯ (см. омег).--Cinemantique (talk) 22:28, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
@Cinemantique, поскольку в Vasmer написано, что слово связано с мигать (migatʹ), в слове ожидается приставка, и в 28 выпуске ЭССЯ на странице 58 как раз есть статья. —Игорь Тълкачь (talk) 08:09, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
Спасибо.--Cinemantique (talk) 08:25, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the correction on *meyḱ-[edit]

I accidentally saved it before I was done. I'm glad someone is checking to make sure there are no errors in new pages! :)JohnC5 04:17, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Cat's paw[edit]

Thanks for your note. Where has its paw left the wrong mark its time? Here: https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix_talk:Proto-Slavic/granica?

Pawing it on a mobile so short. Zezen (talk) 09:11, 25 January 2016 (UTC) Zezen (talk) 09:11, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

@Zezen, compare *jalovъ or *svatъ and *dьgnǫti. Simply: etymology at top, descendants at bottom, etc. Also check bottom bar "Categories", you know Proto-Slavic isn't English or Serbo-Croatian. Note that languages at etymology use template {{m}}.—Игорь Тълкачь (talk) 17:08, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Pokorny[edit]

Just so you know, Pokorny is vastly outdated for PIE, and shouldn't be used as a reference. —CodeCat 18:10, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

@CodeCat, well, i heard but i used it because it was used in other entries. I'll take this advice into account. —Игорь Тълкачь (talk) 18:18, 28 January 2016 (UTC)


Ta for accepting my edits[edit]

Fixing them and not reverting for formal errors. Them wiktionary 'ety' codes are beyond my feline ken, meseems. Zezen (talk) 16:21, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

Klewos/es etc[edit]

I still do not get it. If they be descendants, why not list them there exempli gratia, under *ḱléw-es- then? Zezen (talk) 22:42, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

@Zezen, reduplication. It's much easier to handle data in 1 entry than in 2+ entries. That's why there is link to *ḱléwos in entry *ḱlew-. —Игорь Тълкачь (talk) 22:59, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Twardy[edit]

Re your revert, compare inter alia Proto-Indo-European Etymological Dictionary (c) 2012 Fernando López-Menchero, where it is derived therefrom.

Do your sources claim otherwise? Zezen (talk) 07:49, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

@Zezen, Derksen doesn't claim that PIE *tuōrH- gave PS *tvьrdъ (501) but *tvarь (500). Černyx (2:231) gives PIE *tuer- for PS *tvьrdъ. Simply: PIE ō gave PS a, PIE o gave PS o (Derksen: PIE *tuorH- > PS *tvorъ ) and so on.—Игорь Тълкачь (talk) 15:31, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for your explanations, Игорь Тълкачь. Zezen (talk) 17:34, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Share your experience and feedback as a Wikimedian in this global survey[edit]

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(moved "Accent pattern references for verbs and adjectives" to Wiktionary talk:About Proto-Slavic since it's not specific to Useigor)

Proto-Slavic verb aspects[edit]

Where are you getting all those from? Such a distinction didn't exist yet in Proto-Slavic. —CodeCat 17:12, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

Hmmm. If this is true, we should delete all the verb aspects from Proto-Slavic verbs. OTOH, what we call Proto-Slavic in Wiktionary is really Late Common Slavic, and it seems quite possible the aspects did exist at the time, given that the descendant languages are pretty consistent in e.g. putting *pasti "to pasture" as impf. and *pasti "to fall" as pf. Benwing2 (talk) 19:37, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
@CodeCat Etymological dictionary of Slavic languages often mentions, for example (volume 23, page 24-25) it says *naryvati is imperfective (therefore *naryti is perfective). —Игорь Тълкачь (talk) 01:27, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

The Swedish word 'mimra' (on the page for the Proto-Slavic 'němъ')[edit]

Привет!

I am a native Swede, and while reading the etymology for the Proto-Slavic word němъ, I noticed the Swedish word mimra as a related word. This intrigued me, as I've never heard the word before. It intrigued me even more when I couldn't find it in the etymological Swedish Academy Dictionary, nor in the massive 156-million-word corpus provided by Språkbanken of Gothenburg University. I did find a few examples of mimra after some googling, though. A common pattern, which I discovered after quite a while of looking, is that nearly all of the users of mimra have some connection to Norway.

Indeed, I looked in a Norwegian dictionary and found mimre, with the following definition (translated from Norwegian):

"move the lips involuntarily and quickly, without sound; mumble; reminisce about old days"

Specifically, the last definition ("reminisce about old days") matches the (extremely small) usage I've seen in Swedish.

I am only here because I am curious: How did you find the word mimra? Do you have any connection to Norway or the Norwegian language?

This word has really become a mystery for me, and I'd love to get some answers! :-)

Срасибо большое!

--Jocap (talk) 02:05, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

@Jocap Hej. Max Vasmer (see link in references for *němъ) gives the word with sense "move the lips" (шевелить губами), he have references but i couldn't expenand some of his abbreviations and check:
  • Mi. EW 215 == F. Miklosich, Etymologisches Wörterbuch der slavischen Sprachen, Wien, 1886
(no mention) https://books.google.com.au/books?id=rFHRAAAAMAAJ&q=mems
  • В. Шульце, KZ 50, 129 == ??? (W. Schulze, Kleine Schriften, Göttingen, 1933) or (Zeitschrift für vergleichende Sprachforschung auf dem Gebiete der indogermanischen Sprachen, begründet von A. Kuhn, Berlin, 1852)
1: could not check
2: (no mention) https://books.google.com.au/books?id=CUZKAAAAcAAJ&q=mimra
  • М.--Э. 2, 615 == K. Mühlenbach, Lettisch-deutsches Wörterbuch, Redigiert, ergänzt und fortgesetzt von J. Endzelin, Riga, 1923–1932, 4 Bde
Could not check
  • Грюненталь, AfslPh 39, 290 == ??? (Грюненталь = Grünenthal?) (AfslPh == Archiv für Slavische Philologie, begründet von V. Jagić, Berlin, 1876—1929)
1: ...
2: (no mention) https://books.google.com.au/books?id=lGUoAAAAYAAJ&q=mimra
  • Петерссон, Vgl. slav. Wortst. 50 == H. Petersson, Vergleichende slavische Wortstudien, Lund, 1922 (= Lunds Univ. Årsskr. N. F., Avd. 1, Bd. 18, № 2)
Could not check
Last one is Swedish, possibly Vasmer took the word from there. Usually i don't translate words from Vasmer dictionary because their meaning may be inaccurate. I don't have connection to Norway and Norwegian language. —Игорь Тълкачь (talk) 07:52, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
@Useigor Thank you so much for the information! Thank you extra much for searching for mimra in the sources that are available online. Vergleichende slavische Wortstudien by Petersson looks promising. I will go to my university library tomorrow and borrow it, as they have several copies. I'll keep you updated, if you want to. --Jocap (talk) 16:44, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
@Jocap ok, thanks. —Игорь Тълкачь (talk) 03:32, 17 September 2017 (UTC)