Talk:Unsupported titles/Thai name of Bangkok

English entry

Wiktionary's main namespace entry for the English form of this city name, Krung thep mahanakhon amon rattanakosin mahinthara ayuthaya mahadilok phop noppharat ratchathani burirom udomratchaniwet mahasathan amon piman awatan sathit sakkathattiya witsanukam prasit, was deleted as unattested. Alternative forms include Krung-dēvamahānagara amararatanakosindra mahindrayudhyā mahātilakabhava navaratanarājadhānī purīrāmasya utamarājanivēsana mahāsthāna amaravimāna avatārasthitya shakrasdattiya vishnukarmaprasiddhi, Krungthep mahanakhon amonrattanakosin mahintharayutthaya mahadilokphop noppharatratchathani burirom-udomratchaniwet mahasathan amonphiman awatansathit sakkathattiya witsanu kamprasit, and Krungthep mahanakhon amon rattanakosin mahintara ayuthaya mahadilok popnopparat ratchathani burirom udomratchaniwet mahasathan amonpiman avatansathit sakkathattiya visnukamprasit. The English name is a Romanisation of the Thai {{unsupported|Thai Bangkok}} (the city of angels, the great city, the eternal jewel city, the impregnable city of God Indra, the grand capital of the world endowed with nine precious gems, the happy city, abounding in an enormous Royal Palace that resembles the heavenly abode where reigns the reincarnated god, a city given by Indra and built by Vishnukam). It is pronounced:

• (Thai)

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It is the full, ceremonial name of Bangkok, the capital of Thailand.

• 2004: Wendy Taylor, Thailand's Islands and Beaches

  The name Bangkok comes from Bang Makok, meaning ‘Place of Olive Plums'; however, the full official title of the capital is ‘Krungthep mahanakhon amon rattanakosin mahintara ayuthaya mahadilok popnopparat ratchathani burirom udomratchaniwet mahasathan amonpiman avatansathit sakkathattiya visnukamprasit’. This is quite a mouthful, and most Thais abbreviate it to Krung Thep (City of Angels)!

no:Krung thep mahanakhon amon rattanakosin mahinthara ayuthaya mahadilok phop noppharat ratchathani burirom udomratchaniwet mahasathan amon piman awatan sathit sakkathattiya witsanukam prasit vi:Krung thep mahanakhon amon rattanakosin mahinthara ayuthaya mahadilok phop noppharat ratchathani burirom udomratchaniwet mahasathan amon piman awatan sathit sakkathattiya witsanukam prasit

Contents of the talk page of the erstwhile English entry

I love how you can hear the speaker taking a deeper breath, about 2/3rds the way through. --Connel MacKenzie 22:53, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Being a proper noun, shouldn't this be Krung Thep Mahanakhon Amon Rattanakosin Mahinthara Ayuthaya Mahadilok Phop Noppharat Ratchathani Burirom Udomratchaniwet Mahasathan Amon Piman Awatan Sathit Sakkathattiya Witsanukam Prasit? -- 203.171.192.57 06:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

English?

How is this English? The given citation is a definite "mention". Equinox ◑ 11:55, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Regarding the book citations

Google Books OCR tends to misread Thai script, and therefore will not find this term in those books if you search for the whole term all at once. You have to search for a small piece or two of the term, which will bring up the snippet, whereupon you can verify that the book uses the whole term, spelled like this, and that it is merely Google's OCR which misreads it. - -sche (discuss) 23:00, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

RFV

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for verification.

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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Unsupported titles/Thai name of Bangkok

This is the public building I was thinking of.

I think I saw this once on some sort of public building or monument in Thailand. In any case, there's a slim chance it's citeable, but I suspect it's a candidate for -sche's new Appendix. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 21:12, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Actually, I think this probably meets CFI. Inscriptions are considered durably archived; CodeCat and I have cited the Golden Horns of Gallehus and various runestones before. And one must expect that at least a few of the Thai government's and/or the Bangkok government's documents use the full ceremonial name. Whether those documents are available online is another matter... in that respect, it seems comparable to the situation of Irish words which are in books we don't have easy access to. - -sche (discuss) 21:29, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Well we can't just assume it exists. We need three citations right? --WikiTiki89 21:32, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, Thai requires three uses. Of course, we can always ask someone living in Bangkok to tell us if they've seen it around... I'll see what I can find. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 22:54, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

@-sche: You put a couple cites up, but without context, how can we tell if they're mentions or uses? (Also, above is a photo of that inscription I mentioned.) —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 22:59, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

I think in the case of a name it may be hard to make this distinction properly. There are many names that are held and declared officially, but never used in practice as part of discourse (no uses). Yet nobody would ever doubt the existence of those names. —CodeCat 23:01, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Comments: Google's OCR tends to misread Thai script, so searching for the full name of the city does not bring up any hits, but if you search for parts of the name, it brings up a lot of hits; of them, at least a pageful do contain the full name, when the actual snippets are inspected.

Of the book citations I put in the entry, the 2001 citation is mention-y, but the undated citation looks like a use.

It is comparatively more difficult to mention (and not use) a placename than a word, because gazetteers and the like (have generally been considered to) use the placenames they contain, and most "bare occurences" of placenames (e.g. at the top of official documents, as the place of composition, signing, etc) are also uses.

Hopefully Anatoli can help judge the use-fulness (har har) of the citations. - -sche (discuss) 23:22, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Cited. - -sche (discuss) 17:57, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Passed. - -sche (discuss) 07:19, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Correction

Name and pronunciation correction:

1. มหินทรา reads มะ-หิน-ทะ-รา
2. space before มหาดิลก
3. นพรัตน without killer mark
4. บูรีรมย์ <= บุรีรมย์ (long u)
5. ทัตติย without ะ

ref: [1] --Octahedron80 (talk) 09:03, 11 December 2018 (UTC)