Talk:arroñar

RFD discussion: June 2018–December 2020

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arroñar

Spanish, user's only contribution. Has sparse cites, none of which correspond to the given def. Ultimateria (talk) 21:44, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

FWIW, per the RAE's official Spanish dictionary:

La palabra arroñar no está registrada en el Diccionario. La entrada que se muestra a continuación podría estar relacionada:

• carroñar

Real Academia Española © Todos los derechos reservados

HTH, ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 21:56, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

It's listed in "Boletín del Instituto de Estudios Asturianos, Issues 71-74" (1970) with the definition segar. Also in "Estudios sobre escritores montañeses" (José María de Cossío, 1973) as "Hacer roeños." DTLHS (talk) 22:00, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

How would you translate this? "Este cerco amurallado a medio caer, este castillo arroñado que sirvió para defender el puente hoy inexistente y anegado, este campo labrado o el patio de armas lleno de amapolas ... " (Mi libro de Zamora, Luis Cortés Vázquez, 1975). DTLHS (talk) 22:05, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Any chance this is a mistake for, or development from, arrollar? That fits the meaning.

Looking etymologically, arroñar could be ad- + roñar, the latter of which shows up in the RAE entry with apparent senses of to groan, grunt, grumble; to take a piss; to sting (if I've understood things correctly).

Alternatively, it might be a development from roña (“dirt, grime; rust; meanness; mange; grudge; trick”). The first two senses point towards dilapidation or degradation, which would also seem to fit the quote above. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 22:58, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

The RAE dictionary is not like the OED. The RAE dictionary makes no attempt to list all Spanish words and it comes nowhere near to doing so. arroñar means collapse, fall apart (usually said of old structures, old houses, etc.). Also used of a person who is falling apart, or, due to bad health, cannot stay upright. Synonym for derrumbarse. —Stephen ^(Talk) 03:51, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Este cerco amurallado a medio caer, este castillo arroñado que sirvió para defender el puente hoy inexistente y anegado, este campo labrado o el patio de armas lleno de amapolas … ― This crumbling walled enclosure, this collapsed castle that served to defend the now missing and flooded bridge, this tilled field or the poppy-covered parade ground …

• Re: how the RAE operates, thank you for the note -- I realized after posting that they aren't shooting for full coverage.

Re: the derivation of arroñar, do you have any additional information? Is it a derivation from (or otherwise related to) noun roña? ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 15:49, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

I'm not sure what the etymology is. Possibly from roña, I guess, but I think it might be from arruinar, modified to arroñar by speakers of the Asturian language of northwestern Spain. —Stephen ^(Talk) 06:42, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

• @Ultimateria, how should this be closed? There's only one cite in the entry, but Stephen seems certain it's a real word. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 00:39, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

I do believe that arroñado is an adjective (barely citeable, so I won't add it), derived, as Eirikr points out, from roña. All the GB results for arronado and its forms could be understood as "grimy, filthy, dirty, rusty": "Un mendigo, por arroñado y en mal uso ..."; "los mástiles estaban arroñados — ¡caray con la humedad de Bilbao!"

The quote provided likely means "fallen" but potentially "filthy". There is one other cite that definitively fits the "fallen" definition: "los magníficos castillos ideológicos de cartón piedra son arroñados como simples castillos de naipes". But @Stephen G. Brown would have to provide a third citation for this to pass. I can't find any more. Ultimateria (talk) 15:42, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

• Keep. Change L-2 from Spanish to Leonese. "arroñar. tr. Derrumbar o tirar una pared". Change definition to "to knock down" or "to demolish" -- Dentonius (my politics | talk) 19:48, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Just to expound: This RFD is unwarranted. The word is a genuine Leonese word. I won't go into citations with you since we're talking about a small community of fewer than 20,000 speakers. Here's some lady's blog who apparently understands this dialect: El Llagu la Xana. She says 'En León nada se derrumba... se “arroña" o se “rila”'. I've already edited the entry to reflect that it's Leonese. We don't have a more precise language code than Asturian, unfortunately. But it's related, so it'll do. By the the way, the citations you already had gave an account of somebody from outside of the region. He went to Zamora and studied their language. There's another citation as well (different town). When you look at the geography, you see that they were in places where Leonese is spoken. -- Dentonius (my politics | talk) 11:14, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

I changed the language code to roa-leo to classify the word consistently with its language header. I take no opinion on its existence. It is not in the dictionary at http://www.lengualeonesa.eu/castellan/Diccionario but that has only 9044 words. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 11:22, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, @Vox Sciurorum. I stand corrected: there is a language code, and a six letter one at that. Magnificent. -- Dentonius (my politics | talk) 11:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

• On the RFD: Keep because the entry is not obviously a hoax. Doubts can be resolved by RFV. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 16:13, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

RFD kept — Dentonius 05:25, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Spanish

To begin with, the Leonese form would be arronnare, per the Pallabreiru Lliones. In the AEDLL it would be arroñare. This is just Leonese Castillian, not Leonese Asturleonese. That Northern Irish Historian (talk) 16:59, 23 June 2024 (UTC)