Wiktionary:Requests for deletion/Non-English

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Requests for verification of foreign entries.

{{rfap}} • {{rfdate}} • {{rfdef}} • {{rfd-redundant}} • {{rfe}} • {{rfex}} • {{rfi}} • {{rfp}}

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This page is for entries in any language other than English. For English entries, see Wiktionary:Requests for deletion/English.

Scope of this request page:

  • In-scope: terms suspected to be multi-word sums of their parts such as “brown leaf”
  • Out-of-scope: terms to be attested by providing quotations of their use



See also:

Scope: This page is for requests for deletion of pages, entries and senses in the main namespace for a reason other than that the term cannot be attested. One of the reasons for posting an entry or a sense here is that it is a sum of parts, such as "brown leaf". It is occasionally used for undeletion requests, requests to restore entries that may have been wrongly deleted.

Out of scope: This page is not for requests for deletion in other namespaces such as "Category:" or "Template:", for which see Wiktionary:Requests for deletion/Others. It is also not for requests for attestation. Blatantly obvious candidates for deletion should only be tagged with {{delete|Reason for deletion}} and not listed.

Adding a request: To add a request for deletion, place the template {{rfd}} or {{rfd-sense}} to the questioned entry, and then make a new nomination here. The section title should be exactly the wikified entry title such as "[[brown leaf]]". The deletion of just part of a page may also be proposed here. If an entire section is being proposed for deletion, the tag {{rfd}} should be placed at the top; if only a sense is, the tag {{rfd-sense}} should be used, or the more precise {{rfd-redundant}} if it applies. In any of these cases, any editor including non-admins may act on the discussion.

Closing a request: A request can be closed when a decision to delete, keep, or transwiki has been reached, or after the request has expired. Closing a request normally consists of the following actions:

  • Deleting or removing the entry or sense (if it was deleted), or de-tagging it (if it was kept). In either case, the edit summary or deletion summary should indicate what is happening.
  • Adding a comment to the discussion here with either RFD deleted or RFD kept, indicating what action was taken.
  • Striking out the discussion header.

(Note: The above is typical. However, in many cases, the disposition is more complicated than simply "RFD deleted" or "RFD kept".)

Archiving a request: At least a week after a request has been closed, if no one has objected to its disposition, the request should be archived to the entry's talk page. This consists of removing the discussion from this page, and copying it to the entry's talk page using {{archive-top|rfd}} + {{archive-bottom}}. Examples of discussions archived at talk pages: Talk:piffle, Talk:good job. Note that talk pages containing such discussions are preserved even if the associated article is deleted.

Time and expiration: Entries and senses should not normally be deleted in less than seven days after nomination. When there is no consensus after some time, the template {{look}} should be added to the bottom of the discussion. If there is no consensus for more than a month, the entry should be kept as a 'no consensus'.

Tagged RFDs


December 2016[edit]


Alt-spelling sense. The word (חג׳) that it's listed as an alt-spelling of is defined only identically to חאג׳'s other sense. Not speedying this in case there's really another sense of חג׳ that we should have and that חאג׳ is an alt-spelling of.​—msh210 (talk) 10:13, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

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"Mozilla". Mozilla#English has been deleted by RFD in the past. —suzukaze (tc) 11:01, 11 December 2016 (UTC)











Special:Contributions/Jagnesuzukaze (tc) 11:06, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

  • Keep these Japanese names to provide value to the dictionary user. E.g. ボルボ is Volvo. To see whether this meets WT:BRAND, I would have to be able to meaningfully search for quotations meeting WT:BRAND; I do not see that anyone has spent effort in searching for such quotations. Reduction of utility is bad. Mozilla failed RFV, and maybe someone would be able to find quotations meeting the draconian WT:BRAND and place them to Citations:Mozilla. --Dan Polansky (talk) 12:59, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

February 2017[edit]




These three entries (-/-, -_- and -*-) contain only one sense:

POS section: Interfix

  1. (neologism) Used to separate multiple gendered inflections in gender-neutral writing.
    Freund/innen; ein/e Beamt/er/in
    friends (of any gender); an officer (of any gender)
  1. (neologism) Used to separate multiple gendered inflections in gender-neutral writing.
    Freund_innen; ein_e Beamt_er_in
    friends (of any gender); an officer (of any gender)
  1. (neologism) Used to separate multiple gendered inflections in gender-neutral writing.
    Freund*innen; ein*e Beamt*er*in
    friends (of any gender); an officer (of any gender)

I don't speak German, but I believe these are just punctuation marks (/, _ and *) that can be used inside words, not interfixes. The first one looks like just the punctuation mark found in "I want to meet him/her." It's used like this in Portuguese, too. We already have a couple of senses like those at /, though I'm not sure why they are marked as "proscribed" and "sometimes proscribed".

  1. (proscribed) exclusive or (used to link mutually-exclusive alternatives)
    I think she/he writes very well.
    I think s/he writes very well.
  2. (sometimes proscribed) inclusive or (used to link compatible alternatives or joint items)
    He's an actor/model.

These uses also resemble a sense currently in ( ) with multiple examples:

  1. Expands a word into another word, inflection or spelling.
    Go get the dog(s) - Here, s is a shorthand for the plural dogs.
    You should (re)write that story. - Here, re is an optional prefix re-.
    Blue is my favo(u)rite colo(u)r. - Here, u is an alternative spelling (color/colour).
    A variable with persistence that is currently above (below) its mean will tend not go below (above) its mean for some time.

Plus if I want to know the meaning of the slash in "Freund/innen", I guess it's more intuitive to search for / than -/-.

If that / were an interfix, then by that logic I believe ! would be a suffix and ( ) would be a circumfix. (which they aren't) --Daniel Carrero (talk) 18:32, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Delete per Danliel's reasoning. Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 14:58, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
  • Aah, please can we change the entry into cute smilies instead of deleting them. The first one could be for Two-Face. The second one a sleeping dude, and the third one perhaps for a Hindu with a dot on the forehead. I vote for being Cute. --Quadcont (talk) 13:22, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
    Creating emoticon entries for -/-, -_- and -*- sounds plausible (especially this, IMO: -_-) iff they are citable. This is separate from the idea I proposed above of deleting these specific German senses. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 13:36, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
-/- in "ein/e Beamt/er/in" is different from / in "his/her" or German "sein/ihr": While "his/her" could be rephrased as "his or her" and "sein/ihr" as "sein oder ihr", "Beamt/er/in" would be, but with change of meaning, "Beamter oder Beamtin" and "ein/e" would be "ein oder eine" (bold part has to be added when -/- is used). If one would incorrectly treat a -/- like a /, one would get "ein oder e" which doesn't make sense.
  • "We already have a couple of senses like those at /": Well, one could move some of the senses from / to -/-.
  • "I'm not sure why they are marked as "proscribed" and "sometimes proscribed"": It could depend on the spelling, and not necessarily on the meaning. "she/he" could be "sometimes proscribed" like "actor/model" while "s/he" is "proscribed".
  • "Plus if I want to know the meaning of the slash in "Freund/innen", I guess it's more intuitive to search for / than -/-.": It is more intuitive, but intuitions can be wrong. One could add -/- in an {{also|}} or mention it like / / in / ("See also: / / for the use ..." and "See / / for uses of ...").
  • "! would be a suffix": ! is not added to a word, at least in usual English words or German. In English words like !Kung and in African languages ! might be a prefix or suffix when originally representing some click sounds, but that's something different.
    "( ) would be a circumfix": Aren't circumfixes only added at the begining and at the end like [circumfix part 1][word or stem][circumfix part 2]? ( ) instead is added elsewhere like in "dog(s)", "(re)write", "colo(u)r". So if ( ) would be some affix, it would be of another type.
    But well, the POS "Punctuation mark" might be more fitting and then / might be the proper entry. However, one has to differ between "ein/e" and "ein/eine": 1. In case of "ein/e" something has to be added (a single "e" makes no sense there). 2. / in "ein/eine" has the meaning of or and so "ein/eine" is bi-gendered (like "a man or woman"). "ein/e" on the other hand is said to include various sociological genders and is multi-gendered (like "a man or woman or possibly other"). 3. / meaning or as in "ein/eine" can be used elsewhere like in "und/oder" (= and or or, i.e. an emphasised inclusive or).
- 16:34, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
  • Keep (as creator) "Freund/innen" is a good example of why -/- isn't simply a slash. It's not "Freund"/"innen", nor is it even "Freund [singular]"/"Freundinnen" - it's "Freunde [plural] and Freundinnen". The slash specifically draws attention to the fact the use of the -innen suffix does not necessarily mark the gender of the friends (It makes more sense for words like Mitarbeiter/innen where the masculine plural is the same as the singular). Similarly, in "Beamt/er/in", it's not "Beamt"/"er"/"in", it's "Beamter"/"Beamtin". It's doing something unique that it only does when inserted into words. All of the examples given by the OP, with the exception of the slash in s/he, are punctuation marks with the same meaning both inside and outside words. (There's also the fact that, for -*- and -_-, you can't use these symbols any other way: you couldn't write "ja/nein" as "ja*nein" or "ja_nein". They only work as interfixes). Smurrayinchester (talk) 15:33, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
    • For people who believe this should be kept, but that it's not an interfix, would you say it's an infix? eg in "für eine/n andere/n", where it's inserted into the middle of the -en suffix? (e.g. in 1, 2, [3)? Smurrayinchester (talk) 14:23, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
  • Delete: I'm still not seeing why this usage can't be explained within /. — SMUconlaw (talk) 15:57, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
  • Delete, but move the information, as I don't think it's a true interfix, but it needs to be covered more thoroughly at /, *, and [[_]]. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 03:52, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

April 2017[edit]


Same as above. --Barytonesis (talk) 17:28, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Note: this has been RFD'ed before; see Talk:pouasse. MG found that it was sufficiently common to keep; what makes you disagree with his assessment? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 06:40, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
@Metaknowledge: 8030 hits for "la pouasse" (397000 for "la poisse"); 3150 hits for "quelle pouasse" (30900 for "quelle poisse"); 307 hits for "une pouasse" (11800 for "une poisse"). It's not that common (+ at least some hits concern the word for a kind of chemical, so they aren't misspellings); so no, I don't think it warrants an entry. --Barytonesis (talk) 21:55, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
  • Abstain. It could be deleted a rare misspelling (WT:CFI#Spellings). pouasse,poisse at Google Ngram Viewer does not find pouasse, so no frequency ratio can be calculated and it must be rather rare. However, going by the web counts posted by Barytonesis above, I would say it could be a common misspelling, but I prefer to use Google Ngram Viewer for frequency ratios since it is a tool designed for frequency statistics. A frequency ratio calibration is at User talk:Dan Polansky/2013#What is a misspelling. --Dan Polansky (talk) 09:53, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

kop of munt, kruis of munt[edit]

Both SOP. —CodeCat 18:42, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

Is it still used when tossing Euros, which have neither kop nor munt on them? If so, it's idiomatic. Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 20:38, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
It would still be SOP, because there is still one side called kop and one side called munt. For Euro coins, munt is the side that's the same for all countries, kop is the side specific to each country. The kop side does have a head on it sometimes, depending on the country. For Dutch and Belgian ones it does. —CodeCat 17:55, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
And these usages are found outside of these specific phrases? When you ask someone to do a hatching (nl. arcering) of a coin, you ask him to use the 'mint side' and not the 'number side'? Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 09:16, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
If the coin-hatcher(?) would ask "What side should I do, kop of munt?" the customer would probably laugh and say "Hey, you're not going to toss my coin right!". Kop of munt is an extremely common expression, any references outside of that to sides of a coin are rare if you're not a coin collector or something. W3ird N3rd (talk) 00:24, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
Keep. This is referring to a coin toss. Looking up kop and munt provides exactly 0.0 clue that this is just heads or tails. Heads or tails doesn't have an RfD so why would this? W3ird N3rd (talk) 00:24, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

I can think of both non-SoP and SoP uses:

  1. (IMO non-SoP:) the practice of flipping a coin in the air, to choose between two alternatives; examples:
    • We doen kop of munt met mijn meegebrachte stuiver. Kop, gokt de aanvoerder, en dat wordt het. [1]
    • We hebben niet echt een keus, behalve wie het gaat doen. We kunnen kop of munt doen. [2]
    • Tot nu toe kon het me geen barst schelen wie er begonnen is, zegt hij, maar nu wil ik het weten. Als jullie het me niet binnen een minuut vertellen, straf ik degene die dit stomme kop of munt verliest. [3]
    • De een moest tot een man van de cultuur worden opgeleid, de ander tot man van de wetenschap. Maar wie tot wat? Kunth dacht na. Hij haalde zijn schouders op en stelde kop of munt voor. [4]
    • 'Weet je nog hoe we als kind kruis of munt deden? Als je iets verschrikkelijks moest doen, tosten we. Of als we met een groepje waren, deden we strootje trekken.' [5]
    • 'Maddie, waarom doe je niet gewoon kruis of munt?' vroeg hij dan, wanneer ze haar keuze uiteindelijk had weten terug te brengen tot stoofpot van kalfsvlees en lamskoteletten, maar op dat punt bleef steken. [6]
    • We dronken ons glas leeg en probeerden allebei de rekening te betalen, zodat we er kruis of munt om gooiden en ik won. [7]
    • Ze stegen af en toen Fred Leyburn zich over hun paarden had ontfermd, zei John: 'Ik m...m...moet nou een b...bad hebben, een stomend, d... dampend bad. We zullen k... k...kruis of munt doen, wie het eerste m...mag.' [8]
  2. (IMO SoP (though a common wordcombination):) just before flipping a coin, asking someone to make his/her choice; examples:
    • 'Oké, we gaan tossen!' Hij loopt met Audrey naar de scheidsrechter, die al met een grote munt klaarstaat. 'Kop of munt?' vraagt de scheidsrechter. 'Kop!' zegt Audrey. De munt vliegt omhoog en de scheidsrechter lacht naar haar. [9]
    • 'Laten we erom tossen,' opperde Van der Decken, en hij haalde een muntstuk tevoorschijn. 'Kop of munt.' 'Kop!' zei de koning. 'Munt,' zei Van der Decken en hij liet de munt zien. [10]
    • 'Wat wil jij, Bas, kruis of munt?' 'Kruis,' zei de door haar aangesproken jongen. 'Dan jij munt, Gerard,' zei ze. [11]

-- Curious (talk) 19:07, 21 November 2017 (UTC)


This is a misspelling of farvel, which already has an article for both Nynorsk and Bokmål. All relevant information is already in those articles.--Barend (talk) 12:10, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

  • If it's a common misspelling or an archaic spelling, we should keep it. Is it either of those? —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 13:02, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
I wouldn't say it's particularly common, and I don't think it's archaic.--Barend (talk) 13:22, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
It is a misspelling, and I even found "Kapp Farvell" (Kapp Farvel of course). Anyway, delete. DonnanZ (talk) 14:16, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
Actually, is a redirect a good way of dealing with misspellings? DonnanZ (talk) 13:46, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
  • Keep this Norwegian entry at least as a misspelling, absent frequency data; an example markup is in concieve. The relevant policy is WT:CFI#Spellings: "Rare misspellings should be excluded while common misspellings should be included." An expressly marked misspelling is better than a redirect since then, reusers who want to remove misspellings can easily do so. Here's a Google search in Norwegian sources[12], in which I can confirm the double l in scans of R. K. Sundnes 1948, Maurits Fugelsøy 1958 (here it is in quotation marks), title:Samtiden Volume 40 1929, title:Rolf Jacobsen: En Dikter Og Hans Skygge 1998, title:Nord-Norge 1970, Magnus Breilid 1966, etc. If someone has time, they can collect the quotations in Citations:farvell on the model of Citations:individual, where the quotations will survive even if this fails RFD. --Dan Polansky (talk) 08:01, 20 August 2017 (UTC)















per WT:BRANDsuzukaze (tc) 04:26, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Some entries are poorly formatted and use wrong PoS headers (e.g Noun, not Proper noun) but they all seem to have English equivalents, for which we have entries. To me, they are just normal proper nouns. Tentatively keep. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 10:28, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

May 2017[edit]

Malay, Indonesian language names with bahasa in Category:ms:Languages,[edit]

Delete or redirect all Malay and Indonesian language names with bahasa (language) in Category:ms:Languages and to lemmas without "bahasa". --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 01:32, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

disentir verb forms[edit]

Lots of the verb forms of disentir are incorrect as should be deleted. --WF

June 2017[edit]

многоквартирный дом[edit]

SoP. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 09:05, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Russian entered to mean apartment building, and then there are other senses. Literally multi-apartment building, I guess. Is this the most usual way to render apartment building into Russian? How would I know that I have to use "много-" instead of just квартирный дом? --Dan Polansky (talk) 08:20, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
Yes, it is the most usual way to render apartment building into Russian and those are, indeed "multi-apartment building", not two or three. It's still an SoP. The attributive adjective кварти́рный (kvartírnyj) is used for words related to apartments, not having multiple apartments, e.g. "квартирная плата" - "rent" (for the apartment), "квартирная хозяйка" - landlady. многокварти́рный (mnogokvartírnyj) means "multiapartment". --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 08:03, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
I have provided a usage example at многокварти́рный (mnogokvartírnyj), so that there is no loss of information:
многокварти́рный до́мmnogokvartírnyj dómapartment complex; mansion
--Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 08:06, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
If that is so, I think this is better kept since I would not know this is the right term. It seems also no more SOP than apartment building; the English term is in rather many dictionaries, per apartment building at OneLook Dictionary Search. --Dan Polansky (talk) 05:39, 26 August 2017 (UTC)



I gather that им- (im-) and ир- (ir-) are prefixes that only occur in words borrowed from Romance languages or English, so they do not merit entries. For an earlier discussion, related to the category "adjective-forming prefixes", see Wiktionary:Tea room/2017/May § им-. — Eru·tuon 07:26, 11 June 2017 (UTC)


Not exist in dictionaries. However, this is the name of a district in Chiang Rai. (Perhaps it is a minor language?) --Octahedron80 (talk) 09:09, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

@Octahedron80, Stephen G. Brown: Why do you think this should be deleted? If you doubt its existence, then it should be sent to WT:RFV. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 18:32, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
See thai-language.com. —Stephen (Talk) 23:48, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
^The word is บันเทิง; it is not from บัน+เทิง and no such lone เทิง. For เทิ่ง (with mai ek), it is an adverb meaning "obviously; clearly". They both do not relate with any large or big things. --Octahedron80 (talk) 06:01, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

accidente de tráfico / accidente laboral[edit]

SoP. Ultimateria (talk) 15:20, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Yes. But why do we have road accident? The definition is dubious too. If a bicycle hits a pedestrian on a road, it's a road accident - or am I wrong? --Hekaheka (talk) 18:48, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
I think we should also delete "road accident" (who says that anyway?). Any combination of [setting] + "accident", really. Ultimateria (talk) 18:26, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
FWIW, Collins defines it as "a traffic accident involving vehicles, pedestrians or cyclists" [13].--Droigheann (talk) 22:38, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

zahraniční obchod[edit]

Tagged last year [14] but apparently not brought here. Links properly to foreign trade, which is a red link. I think that if we consider the English term an SoP, the same should probably be true about the Czech term. --Droigheann (talk) 18:39, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

  • As for sum of parts or not, "foreign trade" is at least ambiguous: for a U.K. citizen, foreign trade does not include trading that Germans do among themselves. For whatever reason, foreign trade is currently linked to from User:Robert Ullmann/Missing/e-f and User:Msh210/Duesentrieb/xdv. Furthermore, how would you know that Czechs say "zahraniční obchod" rather than "vnější obchod", analogous to German de:Außenhandel, or "externí obchod"? The German entry has French, Italian, Portuguese and Spanish translations that are based on "external" rather than "foreign", information of use for a translator. If the translations entered turn out to be not the most common ones, that can be corrected, provided there is an entry to correct. Admittedly, foreign trade at OneLook Dictionary Search does not help much to support keeping. --Dan Polansky (talk) 16:37, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
That's an argument for the creation of foreign trade. What I'm saying is that as the English->Czech translation is quite straightforward (unlike the English->German &c ones), there's little point in having the Czech entry in the English Wiktionary linking to an non-existent English one. (Incidentally I didn't tag it for deletion, just noticed it in Category:Requests for deletion in Czech entries.) --Droigheann (talk) 00:49, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
If we focus the argument on the Czech term: zahraniční obchod entry tells you this is the usual phrase rather than *cizí obchod, *vnější obchod or *externí obchod. I don't see how deleting this entry could possibly improve the dictionary and make it more useful. The better course of action is keep Czech zahraniční obchod, create English foreign trade, and add various translations to English foreign trade. --Dan Polansky (talk) 13:26, 30 July 2017 (UTC)
  • Keep: after no one chimed in with arguments to the contrary for some time, a boldface keep from me seems to be in order. --Dan Polansky (talk) 08:13, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

July 2017[edit]

足濟, chiok chōe[edit]

Looks SOP. If this is deleted, should 很多 be deleted as well? — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 01:04, 6 July 2017 (UTC)


Does this meet WT:BRAND? —CodeCat 12:06, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

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Added some citations. -- Curious (talk) 19:28, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

istuic, istuius, istujus[edit]

Long enough unattested and properly would have failed WT:RFVN#illic and istic already. The forms very likely were might up by wiktionary. - 17:25, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Delete. --Barytonesis (talk) 11:29, 14 July 2017 (UTC)
Entered as Latin inflected forms of istic. Some people said inflected forms should not be subject to attestation requirements, and I disagreed, but I do not know what the consensus is, if any. The Latin istic entry now contains some references that seem to have been inserted in support of the claim that these forms do not exist. --Dan Polansky (talk) 12:07, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
@Dan Polansky: "Some people said inflected forms should not be subject to attestation requirements, and I disagreed". I tend to agree with you: I'd prefer to have attestation requirements for all inflected forms, especially in ancient languages. At the same time, I'm not bothered with having entries for all inflected forms of the perfectly regular French verb illustrer, for example: if certain forms aren't attestable, it's only by accident (corpus limitations). --Barytonesis (talk) 17:05, 3 September 2017 (UTC)


Originally tagged for speedy deletion, but I don't think it qualifies, so I'm bringing it here. We do have entries for roots in other attested languages, notably CAT:Sanskrit roots, but for most languages we don't list roots, and for Ancient Greek this is the only one (so far, at least). At the moment I'm somewhat undecided as I see arguments both for (it would be convenient to have a place to gather all the terms derived from this root, like γίγνομαι (gígnomai), γείνομαι (geínomai), γένεσις (génesis), γένος (génos), γονή (gonḗ), γόνος (gónos), γενέτωρ (genétōr)) and against (this form is more of an abstract concept than a genuinely occurring form of the language), so I'm hoping for an active discussion that will help me make up my own mind. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 23:48, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

I created this entry, but I think this and other roots (Arabic, Hebrew, Sanskrit) should probably be moved to appendices. They are theoretical concepts, particularly so for Arabic and Hebrew roots, and can't meet the criterion of attestation. (@Wikitiki89's comments in a discussion about Arabic patterns is what convinced me of this. If patterns should go in appendices, roots should too, because the two are interconnected.)
Having a list of roots and their allomorphs (here, γεν-, γον-, γιγν-, γειν-) might help users to identify the origins of words. I don't know what form this should take: a single page with many or all roots, individual pages (subpages of something like Appendix:Ancient Greek roots). And I'm not sure how or if it would be linked to entries in the main namespace. But I think it would be useful in some form. — Eru·tuon 04:53, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
Putting roots in Appendix space does seem like a good idea. How would we name Appendix pages for roots? Now that reconstructions have their own namespace, we could names like Appendix:Ancient Greek/γεν-, Appendix:Sanskrit/जन् for roots, and link to them using √ (the square root symbol) as a prefix, the same way we already use * for reconstructions. Thus {{l|grc|√γεν-}} would link to Appendix:Ancient Greek/γεν-, and {{l|sa|√जन्}} would link to Appendix:Sanskrit/जन्, etc.  Alternatively, the pages could be named Appendix:Ancient Greek/Roots/γεν-, Appendix:Sanskrit/Roots/जन्, etc. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 10:21, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
I like the idea of using a character to link to the root appendix, but the root symbol is difficult to type, and would discourage people from linking to roots. (Asterisks, by contrast, are on my keyboard, at least.) It would be good to use either the root symbol or an easier-to-type alternative that Module:links can display as a root symbol, preferably something that doesn't otherwise occur in page titles.
I guess I would prefer Appendix:Ancient Greek roots as the prefix. It's a little more clear about what its subpages should contain than Appendix:Ancient Greek (whose subpages could be anything, including all the existing appendices with the prefix Ancient Greek). If we used Appendix:Ancient Greek/Roots, I'm not sure what we could put on the page Appendix:Ancient Greek, so it would be an empty page and a redlink on each root page. Appendix:Ancient Greek roots, on the other hand, could contain general information on roots: for instance, how ablaut and other sound changes affect the form of roots. — Eru·tuon 18:07, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
Why should roots go in appendices but not affixes? They're tied together. Also, we'd have to fix almost every PIE link across Wiktionary. Oppose. —CodeCat 18:15, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
No, PIE roots could stay in the Reconstruction namespace. If you oppose moving roots to the Appendix namespace, why did you propose deleting γεν- (gen-)? Why should Ancient Greek not have root entries at all? — Eru·tuon 20:02, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
Are roots well defined for Ancient Greek? There's a tradition of treating Sanskrit and PIE roots, but not for Greek. —CodeCat 20:04, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
Not that I know of, but it's pretty easy to extract this root at least. — Eru·tuon 20:07, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
It is unobvious that we want to have Ancient Greek roots in mainspace. They are quite unlike prefixes, IMHO. Roots seem to require much more analysis/speculation than prefixes, that is to say, they are much less raw-observational than the kinds of entries that we keep in the mainspace. Category:Ancient Greek roots currently has γεν- as the sole entry. On the other hand, we could keep even hypothetical entities in the mainspace as long as they carry the proper badge of warning; we could have done that with reconstructions as well, where the reconstruction entries could have started with an asterisk. --Dan Polansky (talk) 08:08, 27 August 2017 (UTC)


Sum of parts. —suzukaze (tc) 03:58, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

Keep as useful compound. Um ... translation target, anyone? Mihia (talk) 00:35, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
Delete. @Mihia: The "translation target" reasoning is explicitly only for English entries, because we don't place translation tables in entries in other languages (therefore they are incapable of being translation targets). This translation can remain in the table at chimney sweep, but with each of the two component words linked individually. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 14:17, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
The "translation target" thing was just my little joke. Sorry if that was unclear. By the way, is the sugested SOP 煙突 + 掃除 + or 煙突 + 掃除夫? I find it a bit surprising that we have 煙突掃除夫 but not 掃除夫. Mihia (talk) 20:56, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
掃除夫 is also SoP and [doesn't appear in http://www.weblio.jp/content/%E6%8E%83%E9%99%A4%E5%A4%AB any of the wordlists Weblio Dictionaries] relies on. —suzukaze (tc) 10:30, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
If 掃除夫 doesn't exist then that is a slight point in favour of keeping 煙突掃除夫. As a general principle, I do not believe that Ja entries should necessarily be deleted just because the meaning can be interpreted as the sum of the meanings of individual characters. I believe that well-established compounds that are perceived as one word should be kept, just as we keep "caveman" for instance, even though it is "cave" + "man". Even 煙突 and 掃除 themselves are ultimately SoP, but I don't imagine anyone proposes deleting those. OTOH the issue of "perceived as one word" is harder when there are no spaces, and, I would say, ideally needs a native speaker's input for individual cases, unless we are just to copy what other dictionaries do (I see, by the way, that WWWJDIC has 煙突掃除夫). Mihia (talk) 14:00, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
Delete. Wyang (talk) 09:31, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
Japanese entered as chimney sweep; the sum is 煙突 (entotsu, “chimney, smokestack”) +‎ 掃除夫 (sōjifu, “cleaner”). If this is the most usual way to refer to chimney sweeps, I think this should be kept. --Dan Polansky (talk) 07:52, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

cierro el pico[edit]

This means "I shut my mouth". NISOP --Recónditos (talk) 07:55, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

Should it be moved to cierra el pico? —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 09:13, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
Or the infinitive cerrar el pico. -WF
  • Move to RFV. This is an RFV issue, not an RFD issue.Granger (talk · contribs) 12:05, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
    @Mx. Granger: What is your reasoning for this? The rationale for deleting it is that it's SOP, which would hold regardless of whether it's moved to the lemma form or not. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 17:34, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
    Thanks for the ping – I misread the rationale. I retract my comment. —Granger (talk · contribs) 21:58, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
  • A Spanish phrase with literal rendering "I close my beak"; however, pico has the figurative sense "trap; gob (mouth)", and that is what supports the SoP assertion. A RFV could clarify whether this phrase is used at all; if not, we would no longer have to figure out SoPness. --Dan Polansky (talk) 16:14, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

ge- -t[edit]

I don't think this should be considered a circumfix. German past participles have an ending, which may be -t, -et, or -en, and they may or may not have a prefix ge-. These choices are not related in any way; all combinations exist: gelegt, gerettet, getrieben, zitiert, errötet, beschrieben. So, it's a prefix and a suffix, not a circumfix. Kolmiel (talk) 13:49, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

ge- only appears if -t, -et or -en is added, there is nothing like geleg (without any ending). In certain cases only an ending and not ge- is added. Thus it should be ge- -t (ge- -et, ge- -en) and for certain cases (some derived terms or compounds like beschreiben (be- + schreiben) and foreign words like zitieren (from Latin)) just -t, -et, -en. In literature one can also read that ge- -t is a circumfix, e.g.:
  • 2014, Michael Schäfer and Werner Schäfke, Sprachwissenschaft für Skandinavisten: Eine Einführung, p. 110: "vom Zirkumfix {ge- -t}"
  • 2016, Roland Schäfer, Einführung in die grammatische Beschreibung des Deutschen, 2nd edition, p. 324: "das Zirkumfix ge- -t (schwach) bzw. ge- -en (stark)" 03:20, 30 July 2017 (UTC)
Delete. Suffix plus separate prefix per Kolmiel. There's also a few cases where the prefix or its variants appear without a suffix (e.g. Getreide, glauben, gönnen). Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 12:37, 30 July 2017 (UTC)
Keep. —CodeCat 12:45, 30 July 2017 (UTC)
Getreide, glauben, gönnen do not contain a NHG prefix ge-. The OHG or MHG terms might have gi- or ge- in it, but that's not visible in the NHG terms anymore.
Better examples might exist in (older?) dialectal/regional German like geseyn instead of sein (or seyn). Some terms similar to this might also exist in 'standard' High German.
Anyway ge- alone doesn't form the past participle (unless it's somewhat strangely analysed like in ge- -t ("with ge- (for strong verbs)") and and ge-#German (the second prefix)). And if ge- -t gets removed, the sense would belong to -t (and -en, but not ge-). In -t it then should be something like "forms the past participle; usually together with ge-, but sometimes just -t". - 15:37, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
  • Keep: The fact that there are other ways to mark the past participle is not relevant. The question is whether the elements ge- and -t in, for example, gelegt have distinct meaning on their own, the way un- and -ed do in unnamed. They don't; they only have meaning when taken together as the marker of the past participle. Therefore, they should not be analyzed separately; they have to be considered a circumfix. So also with ge- -et and ge- -en. — Eru·tuon 00:25, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
What are you talking about? All endings have several distinct meanings of their own, one being that they are the ending of the past participle, with or without the prefix. E.g. entlarvt, verschnitten, erduldet etc. which are past participles, marked by the respective ending, without the respective prefix. ps.: New High German begins around 1400, so having an entry for a prefix 'ge-' for words like gesitzen is absolutely in the scope of Wiktionary's de code. Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 10:21, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
I'm talking about the meaning in the word in question, gelegt. Does the -t mean one thing and the ge- mean another in that word? — Eru·tuon 16:57, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
No, Peter Gröbner (talk) 17:28, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
NHG begins around 1350 or around 1500 depending on definition or view. The ISO code gmh ends around 1500 (which would imply de starts around 1500). Regardless of the beginning of de, NHG has a prefix ge-. And not just one forming collectives, but also one in verbs, as in "gesein" or "geseyn" for "sein" (once also "seyn") (infinitive) and "gewesen" (past participle). Those prolonged verbs usually are obsolete now, but there might be exceptions as "gebrauchen" versus "brauchen".
But is e.g. "gefragt" somehow analysed as "ge- + frag (stem) + -t", with -t marking the past participle and ge- being something else?
It's analysed as "ge- + frag (stem) + -t" with ge- ... -t being a circumfix at least by some (two sources were given above), and this might be the more usual analysis. - 21:40, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
I'll say it frankly: I'm pissed off by your underhand tactics of pulling the musing that 'something might be X' out of your arse. It might also be a nutty fringe interpretation only upheld by your two sources. But who's helped by me mentioning that? If I wanted random guesses, I'd buy a magic 8-ball, if I wanted people subtly influenced with the mentioning of possibilities, I'd buy Frank Luntz. Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 21:55, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
Keep. It is not a combination of the prefix ge- and the suffix -t, because there is no intermediate stage: gesagt, *gesag, *sagt. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 13:32, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
  • Delete, or rework. Analyzable as prefix + suffix, a view reinforced by the separate presence of the ge- prefix and -t suffix in other words. In addition, the entry currently at ge- -t doesn't provide much utility, and it's unclear how a user would ever arrive at this page via search -- the only apparent avenue would be by clicking through from another entry, which could just as well link to something else instead.
Incidentally, the entry at -t looks woefully inadequate, and apparently wrong to boot -- the def is given as "-ed (used to form adjectives from nouns)", but then the terms in Category:German_words_suffixed_with_-t all seem to be derived from verbs...
‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 18:29, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

haîsseux d'femmes[edit]

Probably a useful translation but hardly deserving of its own entry. — (((Romanophile))) (contributions) 09:13, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

If it just means "hater of women" (as I suspect) then delete as SOP. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 18:57, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
Keep. Misogynist is a single word and it's entered as a translation there. DonnanZ (talk) 16:14, 1 August 2017 (UTC).
@Donnanz: That's not a good enough to reason to keep. The translation line can just as easily say {{t|nrf|[[haîsseux]] [[d']][[femmes]]|m}} if the Norman is SOP. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 16:22, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
Yes, but if French misogyne or an equivalent is not used in Norman (that needs verification) I would still say "keep". DonnanZ (talk) 16:29, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
Keep since Frenhc is known to use multi-word phrases where other languages use single words. This is not standrd French, I get that, but the grammar seems to be similare. Lollipop (talk) 20:09, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
Delete. Those voting keep seem to be ignoring the grounds upon which a term can be kept. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 20:30, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
Woman-hater is a verifiable synonym of misogynist, so I don't see any reason for objection to this. It looks as though the equivalent in quite a few languages is woman-hater instead of or as well as misogynist. All translations are under misogynist though. DonnanZ (talk) 10:18, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
Delete, SOP until proven otherwise. --Barytonesis (talk) 16:37, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
Delete, and if it passes, RFV it. — Ungoliant (falai) 16:43, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
Delete. Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 09:53, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

August 2017[edit]


Nickname of a footballer? Nah...--WF back from hols (talk) 08:10, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Keep. We consider single words used to refer to individuals, per CFI. (There are some prior test cases but I don't remember them.) —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 02:25, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
My notes: User talk:Dan Polansky/2016#Nicknames of specific_people. The practice has been mixed: Talk:J-Lo passed while Talk:Jacko failed. The reason for failing might have been that the word could have been construed as a generic nickname, not just a nickname for the particular person, so Jacko as a nickname was kept but the specific sense for Michael Jackson was deleted. Since Zizou is not yet entered as a generic nickname, it could be kept. The regulation is WT:NSE. --Dan Polansky (talk) 13:21, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
By the way, this is WF nominating a nickname entry he created (this one in 2011), not for the first time. --Dan Polansky (talk) 13:29, 20 August 2017 (UTC)


Sum of parts. —suzukaze (tc) 23:32, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Delete. Wyang (talk) 09:31, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
Keep. In most contexts it specifically means a regime change between the LDP and a non-LDP party. For those who are used to two-party system it may not sound special, but in the conservative Japan it is a historical event. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 04:49, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
If this is a change in which party rules, then the current definition "a change in who holds political power; regime change" seems misleading, or at least the "regime change" part. Maybe instead of deleting the entry, we should make sure it is accurate, clear and unambiguous. --Dan Polansky (talk) 06:24, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
+1 —suzukaze (tc) 22:36, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Nakke Nakuttaja[edit]

Woody Woodpecker doesn't have an English entry. Should this? PseudoSkull (talk) 16:01, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Delete. Equinox 16:50, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
No objection to deletion, but I'd like to point out that we have an English entry for each of Santa's reindeer (Dasher, Dancer, Prancer, Vixen, Comet, Cupid, Donner and Blitzen, if one would want to check). Besides, I believe that there are situations when at least I might want to search this term in a dictionary. Unless we can delete Santa's reindeer, I would rather suggest that we add "Woody Woodpecker". Also, one might argue that Woody W is about as well-known fictional personality as e.g. Winnie the Pooh. --Hekaheka (talk) 07:56, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
We have the Santa reindeer entries because Daniel Carrero likes reindeer. That is not a lexical argument. Equinox 03:42, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
If there's one thing I fucking hate is when people put words in my mouth. I created the reindeer entries, yes, but I don't like everything I create entries for. I could have created an entry for cancer or something.
We seem to accept all mythical and folkloric entities like Santa Claus himself, but I don't mind to be proved wrong if we come up with some present or future rule against that. See also Category:en:Folklore and Category:en:Mythology.
This is different from fictional characters belonging from comics, films, etc. like Woody Woodpecker. Delete Nakke Nakuttaja in the absence of any good reason to keep it. Actually, maybe keep-ish since we have kept a few notable entries for characters for one reason or another, including Winnie the Pooh as mentioned above. Again, this is different from mythological and folklorical creatures that are not tied to cartoons, comics, etc. belonging to some specific company or author. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 13:57, 25 November 2017 (UTC)


Various programming symbols, not part of human language. Compare Talk:Unsupported_titles/Double_period#2016_deletion_discussion. Equinox 16:49, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Keep. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 17:00, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
I think the "variable" sense is fairly important ($DEITY) but don't care for the others. —suzukaze (tc) 01:20, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
Delete. Chuck Entz (talk) 23:57, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
I agree with Suzukaze-c; we can cite in running language "$" being used for variables.--Prosfilaes (talk) 05:53, 26 November 2017 (UTC)


ᠨ and ᠭ are combined instead of using ᠩ, probably in order to emulate a certain font, this is not valid Mongol script spelling. Crom daba (talk) 17:58, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Delete. —Stephen (Talk) 20:54, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

September 2017[edit]

All pages in Category:te:Decades[edit]

All the pages in Category:te:Decades can be deleted as there is no point having lots of pages of different decades in Telugu years. Apart from English, there is no other language which pages relating to decades so therefore, all the pages in this category can safely be deleted. Pkbwcgs (talk) 14:31, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

Indeed, they are generated in a predictable manner by adding the plural morpheme to the end of a decade. Delete. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 18:30, 3 September 2017 (UTC)


It has exactly the same meaning as IIII but the proper way to write Roman Numerals is in capital letters. Pkbwcgs (talk) 16:24, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

Roman numerals can also be written in lowercase letters, notably in page numbers. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 18:27, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

sapiens, ruber, germanicus[edit]

Language: Latin
Sense: "(New Latin) Used as a taxonomic epithet" or "(New Latin) Used as a species epithet"
in germanicus: "(New Latin) Used as a species epithet to indicate that a species was discovered or is common in Germany"
  • There is the possibility that this was never used in Latin which would mean it should be deleted (compare with Talk:albifrons, Talk:iroquoianus). But this would be a matter of WT:RFVN. So assuming it was/is actually used in Latin:
  • "Used as a taxonomic epithet" or "Used as a species epithet" is not a meaning, but just a context. And such contexts (usually) aren't included. English red is also used in animal names (see e.g. w:Red scorpionfish, w:Red snapper), yet red only has the general meaning "Having red as its color." and not also "Used in animal names" (as in "red scorpionfish"), or also "Used in reference to clothes" (as in "red dress", "red T-shirt").
  • In "germanicus" it seems to be a bit more than a context. But again it's nothing which is (usually) included. In Latin terms "germanicus" just has the sense "German" too. This is similar to e.g. English German Shepherd, German chamomile, and also German Sea, German Autumn. Yet the English entry German has no meanings like "Used in animal and plant names" (e.g. "German Shepherd", "German chamomile") or "Used in political or geographical contexts" (e.g. "German Autumn", "German border", "German Democratic Republic", "German Sea").

- 20:51, 3 September 2017 (UTC)


Sum of parts "want to" + "to sleep". —suzukaze (tc) 05:58, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

Delete. Wyang (talk) 22:23, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
Delete. @Tooironic, do you have any reason for keeping this? — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 22:25, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
  • Not sure. It's in a lot of dictionaries, so we could argue it passes the lemmings test. 想 does seem to have the ability to combine with other verbs to create adjectives, e.g. 想要, 想開, 想歪, etc. ---> Tooironic (talk) 01:12, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
    I think these are verbs too: "to want (sex)", "to think in a philosophical manner" and "to think awry; to think and interpret things in a dirty, twisted way". Wyang (talk) 07:27, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
    想睡 is entered as an adjective meaning "sleepy"; is that wrong? If not, why does "want to" + "to sleep" yield an adjective? --Dan Polansky (talk) 07:44, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
    I don't think 想睡 is really an adjective. It's more like a verb phrase meaning "to want to sleep; to be sleepy". — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 00:10, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
    No, I don't see how is 想睡 an adjective either. Dokurrat (talk) 14:36, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
Is Vietnamese buồn ngủ of analogous construction? —suzukaze (tc) 10:05, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
Similar, but I feel they are not quite the same. (“to want to (do something)”) is productive, making 想睡 the expected form for “to want to sleep”. Meanwhile, buồn is nonproductive and its meaning is not really “to want to (do something)”. It means having to do something due to the need of the body, and describes a state, not a desire. There is a distinction between buồn ngủ (feeling sleepy; drowsy, a state) and muốn ngủ (to want to sleep, a desire); the former is more like Mandarin and Cantonese 眼瞓. Wyang (talk) 13:02, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
  • @Tooironic If no attestation of 想睡 as "sleepy" can be found, I think this entry should be deleted. Dokurrat (talk) 05:53, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
    Not a big deal. I can't think up a good argument for keeping it anyway. ---> Tooironic (talk) 05:56, 25 November 2017 (UTC)


This is a weird misspelling of 有利 and it looks more like a name. Nibiko (talk) 10:52, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

queer marriage[edit]

Entered as a synonym of "gay marriage". It can mean that, but I think only insofar as "gay" is a hyponym of "queer", i.e. all gay marriages are queer but some queer marriages are not gay. Consider: "Heterosexual marriage is sanctified through its likeness to the queer marriage of Christ and church" (Gerard Loughlin, Queer Theology); "Jupiter's theft of his wife's wedding jewels is nothing if not queer or counternormative" (Moncrief and McPherson, Performing Pedagogy in Early Modern England); "Why ... are there so many possible queer marriages in Shakespeare's plays? (Examples include Orlando entering a 'mock-marriage' with Rosalind-as-Ganymede, and Orsino marrying the still-dressed-as-a-boy Viola.)" (Traub, The Oxford Handbook of Shakespeare and Embodiment). Romanophile has a habit of taking common phrases, replacing a word with something vaguely similar, and entering the result as a synonym (e.g. "to be truthful", "woman enough", "sex tool"). Sometimes this works, sometimes not so much. Equinox 02:09, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

How about WT:RFVE (trying to attest the definition) or WT:RFC (changing the definition to include other queers not just homosexuals)? - 09:01, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

kde se nachází[edit]

Czech fragment, corresponding to where is. Thus, "kde se nachází nemocnice?" may be rendered as "where is the hospital?". If taken as a pattern or a template for the phrasebook, it would be at kde se nachází .... But I do not like such patterns or templates in the phrasebook. Furthermore, I don't think the word "nachází" is preferable over "je"; thus, "kde je nemocnice" sounds better to me, less literary.

google books:"where is the hospital" phrasebook suggests we may create where is the hospital. --Dan Polansky (talk) 07:29, 20 September 2017 (UTC)


Sum of parts "to take off" + "used along with a verb to indicate completion". —suzukaze (tc) 00:21, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

There is such thing as '死掉', '毀掉' and '改掉'. —This unsigned comment was added by (talk).

être dans des transes[edit]

Translation unclear; unidiomatic, and it always has to be determined with an adjective: être dans des transes affreuses, effroyables, horribles, continuelles; you can't use it as a standalone. --Barytonesis (talk) 15:53, 22 September 2017 (UTC)


Tagged but not listed. — Ungoliant (falai) 12:13, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

The nominator's comment was "probably doesn't meet Wiktionary:Criteria for Inclusion#Numbers, numerals and ordinals". —suzukaze (tc) 01:11, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

kan du snakke engelsk?[edit]

Norwegian Bokmål, phrasebook entry. Not particularly common on Google Books and certainly not in phrasebooks. Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 11:09, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Maybe snakker du engelsk? (another entry) is more common [15] than [16]. DonnanZ (talk) 11:57, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
  • Delete. If it's rarely used, there's no reason to have it as a phrasebook entry. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 02:22, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Some searches: google books:"kan du snakke engelsk", google books:"snakker du engelsk". When I click to the right, as I have to with Google searches to see the actual number of hits, the latter search does not yield all that many more items. The entry was created by User:EivindJ, who used to declare themselves as Norwegian native speaker. The phrase is e.g. in Ny i Norge: Arbeidsbok by Gerd Manne, 1977. I think the searches for phrasebooks to apply something like the lemming heuristic are most useful for English phrases, and much less for non-English phrases. I'd say week keep, but input from Norwegian speakers would be welcome, and absent that input, I would err on the side of keeping. --Dan Polansky (talk) 09:03, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
    That is a good point, "can you speak English" is more common in phrasebooks. Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 09:53, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

October 2017[edit]

dessous de bras[edit]


  1. armpit

The usual word for armpit is aisselle, but, more to the point, this looks like simply "the underside of the arm", which would be SOP. Granted, I'm not exactly fluent in French, so I'm prepared to withdraw this if a native speaker thinks I've got this wrong. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:57, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

  • Delete. However, I wonder if they meant dessous-de-bras. This is a piece of material in the armpit of a dress that soaks up any perspiration. SemperBlotto (talk) 04:47, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
    You're wrong, it's a common, yet informal, way to say armpit. It's a real collocation. As a native French speaker, I know what I am talking about. See doigt de pied for example. Bu193 (talk) 22:45, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
    Good analogy. --Barytonesis (talk) 17:21, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Proper French, but SOP. Delete. --Barytonesis (talk) 10:40, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
    I'm unsure, actually. --Barytonesis (talk) 13:49, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
    I'll say keep after all. The case is very similar to doigt de pied: SOP, but idiomatic and very common. --Barytonesis (talk) 17:21, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

conserver un suivi[edit]

Not a set phrase, and SOP. See also the RFV debate. @Widsith --Barytonesis (talk) 10:16, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

  • I disagree that it's sum of parts. I read it somewhere and didn't understand it, which is why I put it in. Beyond that, I don't have strong feelings on it. Ƿidsiþ 11:52, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
    • Sorry for the pestering, but I don't think "I didn't understand it" is a sufficient reason for saying it's not SOP. It's simply conserver (to keep) + un (a) + suivi (tracking, monitoring). And it's nowhere near as idiomatic as keep track. --Barytonesis (talk) 08:39, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
      • I disagree. For it to be sum of parts, it would have to be normal (or at least comprehensible) to say in English that we conserve a monitoring of something, but not only do we not say this in English, it's not even clear what it is supposed to mean. Furthermore it's not obvious why a "monitoring" should be "conserved" rather than "held" or "maintained" or whatever. As far as I'm concerned, that makes it idiomatic. Ƿidsiþ 13:47, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
        • I think you're reading too much into this. The three quotations are just poorly written French, and it looks like they picked the first verb that came to mind. It's not unclear because it's idiomatic, it's unclear because it's bad prose. --Barytonesis (talk) 15:38, 13 November 2017 (UTC)


I think the German should be at B-Dur. Please confirm. --P5Nd2 (talk) 08:32, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

[letter]-Dur is the more common spelling. I'm not sure if [letter]-dur is attestable as an alt form which would be a matter of WT:RFVN anyway. - 09:28, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
Keep, but maybe B-Dur should be the lemma. This form is not too rare in writings from the 19th century. [17] [18] [19] Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 11:06, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
There is also an entry for A-dur, by the way. DonnanZ (talk) 23:06, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

liaison sans lendemain[edit]

SOP, unidiomatic. 33000 hits for "liaison sans lendemain", 65000 hits for "histoire sans lendemain", 364000 hits for "aventure sans lendemain". I think a case could be made for an adjective "sans lendemain" though. @Widsith --Barytonesis (talk) 12:21, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure, a literal reading would suggest a slightly broader meaning to me. Would you use this of any short romance, intentionally or not, or only for a one-off instance of casual sex? Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 10:57, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
@Lingo Bingo Dingo: Well, I wouldn't use it at all. In my book, a liaison is an affair, an adulterous relationship, so adding "sans lendemain" sounds a bit weird to me. For a short romance I'd say one of the above ("histoire sans lendemain", "aventure sans lendemain"), and for a one-shot -ahem- thing, "coup d'un soir" ("histoire/aventure sans lendemain" could work too, I guess). I dunno. --Barytonesis (talk) 19:43, 19 November 2017 (UTC)



If it doesn't pass the lemming test, I think this is an SoP in Chinese: 奴隸奴隶 (núlì, “slave”) + 制度 (zhìdù, “system”). --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 09:52, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

FWIW, MDBG has it for ZH, and Daijirin has the corresponding 奴隷制度 spelling for JA. (Shogakukan also has it, but that's dead-tree and not linkable.) ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 22:18, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
PS: 奴隸制度 would be the 旧字体 (kyūjitai) or pre-reform spelling for JA as well. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 22:19, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
@Eirikr: Thanks for the response and the links. So, lemming test is passed but is there another argument for keeping the entry/entries? An English word for "slavery" exists, what's the Chinese for for it? The word is likely to be looked up? We need to have separate CFI for languages such as Chinese and Japanese where word boundaries are not clear. Please note that the Korean and the Vietnamese cognates 노예 제도 (noye jedo) and chế độ nô lệ are not necessarily considered single words (the word order in Vietnamese is reversed). --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 12:31, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
  • I'm ambivalent about this, but if we do delete, could someone please add the term as an example collocation. ---> Tooironic (talk) 14:36, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Remove "autompne"[edit]

This word was defined as an Old French alternative to "automne". The problem is that this is completely false, and it never was a word in French, be it Old, Classic or Modern French.

As for the source: I'm a native french speaker and asked a linguist about this word. Last but not least, there are no uses of this word in french material...

You can't use a source to show the nonexistence of a word. You can only use a source to show its existence. —Rua (mew) 22:52, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
I am looking at several examples of "autompne" right now, but they are Middle French, not Old (late 15C and 16C). Mind you, there's not a lot of Old French in Google Books. I'll modify the entry to Middle French and add the citations. But the statement that "it never was a word in French, be it Old, Classic or Modern French" is not true. --Catsidhe (verba, facta) 00:28, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
It's a matter of WT:RFVN. If it doesn't get attested, it gets removed. If it gets attested, there could be discussions about what it is (alternative form? misspelling? printing error? something to be labeled rare? ...). - 08:56, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

Har du sett på maken![edit]

I don't like the capital and the ! --P5Nd2 (talk) 11:09, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

I'd say this and the one above should be at WT:RFM instead of here. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 11:29, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
I don't even speak the language but the exclamation mark HAS GOT TO GO. Equinox 03:31, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
  • I moved this Norwegian phrasebook entry entered to mean 1. Golly! 2. Well, I never! to har du sett på maken: should be entirely uncontroversial based on common practice. --Dan Polansky (talk) 07:44, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
I don't think the translations are terribly good actually, basically it means "have you ever seen the like". There is a parallel phrase in Swedish which is more or less the same. Anyway, keep as redirected, it still needs tidying up and a lemma created. DonnanZ (talk) 10:49, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
Alternatively hørt (Bokmål) or høyrt (Nynorsk) are used instead of sett (seen), "have you ever heard the like / of such a thing" DonnanZ (talk) 11:08, 27 November 2017 (UTC)


SOP.--2001:DA8:201:3512:A4AF:DFF2:F273:20AE 10:40, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Keep. It's an important character in calligraphy; the term is present in Daijirin and Daijisen; and you can't just say any combination of roots, e.g. 言字 (genji). Some terms in Japanese may appear SOP, but because they're derived from Sinitic roots, it would only be accurate to compare them to set terms derived from roots in English. Nibiko (talk) 13:19, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

tiếng Afrikaans[edit]

A Vietnamese SoP. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 10:44, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Will possibly apply to many or all "tiếng" words, see CAT:vi:Languages. A similar cleanup happened with a few languages to get rid of entries containing the word "language" in that language. @Fumiko Take, Wyang. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 10:48, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
I know absolutely nothing about Vietmamese, but do the two words have to go together? There is no separate entry for Vietnamese Afrikaans. DonnanZ (talk) 11:12, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
I would say so, though I'm still tempted to parallel them with Japanese (go) words (I've hardly ever bothered with them though), and I'm a little ambivalent about a few cases like tiếng Anh or tiếng Việt. Unlike Japanese, Korean and Chinese, Vietnamese doesn't distinguish "the UK", "Great Britain" and "England", so it's probably fine to consider tiếng Anh an SoP. Việt could be consider a free morpheme, but then it's usually used in a few compounds in non-literary contexts, so it's harder to tell if tiếng Việt is an SoP. Geez, Vietnamese, give me a break already. Personally, I'm not comfortable with tiếng Afrikaans even being a Vietnamese entry, but this is also a good opportunity to re-evaluate Japanese (go) words, Korean (eo) words and Chinese words too: are they also SoPs? They do seem to parallel with instances such as 奈良県 (Nara-ken), ネコ科 or ドラゴン (Doragon-zoku), which feature apparent bound morphemes, but also are coined very easily without consideration on how the morphemes would be affected by compounding like, say, Latin Felidae. ばかFumikotalk 11:27, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
@Fumiko Take: Thanks. I am suggesting to have separate CFI for languages with no clear word boundaries or w:scriptio continua, so that inclusion rules could be decided once and for all, hopefully. tiếng Việt might be one of the few exception, I understand why you hesitate. Is Việt really a productive adjective? tiếng, (),  () (go), (eo) or "人" words could be part of the CFI discussion - do we or do we not include words with these suffixes (prefixes) as words? In fact, there is little idiomatic about 中國人中国人 (Zhōngguórén) - China person or 中國話中国话 (zhōngguóhuà) - China speech but dictionaries do include them, so do we. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 11:51, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
I think it's worth saying that when a page exists in the Vietnamese Wiktionary tiếng Việt appears in the left-hand column. DonnanZ (talk) 12:39, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
It's true that there is no Vietnamese entry Afrikaans and many other foreign proper nouns, for which there is no equivalent created in Vietnamese or it's rarely used. For a Vietnamese entry Afrikaans, it would be necessary to provide the phonetic respelling but native speakers usually frown upon these words as they are not really considered Vietnamese. For example, "Pakistan" has a native Vietnamese words Pa-ki-xtan, even if English "Pakistan" is also commonly used. It's still an SoP, unless we decide that words containing tiếng merit their entry. For comparison, Thai, Lao, Khmer, Burmese entries with the word "language" have been deleted, as was agreed by knowledgeable editors or native speakers in RFD discussions.
For example, Thai language can be expressed in various ways in Burmese:
ထိုင်းနိုင်ငံhtuing:nuingngamThailand (country)
ထိုင်းစာhtuing:caThai language (written)
ထိုင်းဘာသာhtuing:bhasaThai language
Thai: ภาษาไทย
paa-sǎa tai
Thai (language)
tiếng Thái LanThai (language)
tiếng TháiThai (language)
Even if it's common to use the word "language", the pattern is predictable, so there is no need to "boost" the number of entries by these combinations. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 07:39, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
tiếng means language, in one of the senses. In general, I am ok with keeping "X language" entries in various languages, especially if the "X language" pattern is the usual way of expression in that language, which I do not know for Vietnamese. Thus, if "tiếng Afrikaans" is more often used than "Afrikaans" to refer to the language, I'd prefer to keep "tiếng Afrikaans". --Dan Polansky (talk) 16:44, 19 November 2017 (UTC)


Do we want Citations of misspellings? --P5Nd2 (talk) 14:11, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Would you rather have them polluting the citations page of correct spellings, or completely removed? — Ungoliant (falai) 14:29, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
Is it a misspelling or a typo? --Barytonesis (talk) 21:12, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
  • I'd like to see it deleted --P5Nd2 (talk) 18:29, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
  • P5Nd2 is Wonderfool. As for substance: when the misspelling has more quotations, it may be worth keeping in Citations: namespace; when only one can be found, probably not so much; I don't know. --Dan Polansky (talk) 16:39, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

baignade à poil[edit]

SOP (baignade + à poil) and unidiomatic, unlike skinny dip. --Barytonesis (talk) 21:09, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

November 2017[edit]


Not one word but three words - لِلَّبَنِ‏ (lillabani) لِ (li) + definite form of لَبَن (laban): اللَّبَن‏ (al-laban) with a enclitic definite article اَل (al-) together looking like one word. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 03:04, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

Delete. Straightforward SOP; I have no clue why Stephen created it, but it may be that in 2007, most anything was acceptable. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 03:24, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
Delete throwing also لله into the bin. Palaestrator verborum (loquier) 04:00, 4 November 2017 (UTC)


Per P.v., this ought to go for the same reason. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:15, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

This isn't the same thing. للبن is لبن plus ل (l). However, لله cannot be split or further reduced. You cannot remove the first ل (l) or any other part of لله. You can't even add vowels or other diacritics. You can only add prefixes, such as ا, as in: الله. —Stephen (Talk) 09:57, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
Yes, this is a ligature, which we should keep. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 10:00, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
But as we already know, such happens with every combination of the preposition لِ (li) and the definite article. We can “split” those products, لله gives اللّٰه (allāh) and لِ (li). It is already arguable to delete اللّٰه (allāh) because it is SOP (I don’t clearly see why it is not SOP). Creating لِلّٰهِ (lillāhi) goes too far. Also Stephen contradicts himself by stating that the Allah combination cannot be split up while لِلَّبَنِ‏ (lillabani) can be, as this one also omits the article completely and he has glossed it “li-l-labani” while here he analyzes it as “لبن plus ل (l)”. If لِلّٰهِ (lillāhi) shall not be deleted because “it’s a ligature” or “it cannot be split or further reduced”, one can go on and auto-create entries with the preposition لِ (li) for اَلْقُدْس (al-quds) and all names containing the definite article (someone might start to create family name entries somewhen), @Atitarev, @Stephen G. Brown. Palaestrator verborum (loquier) 21:09, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
“lillāhi” is different from “li-l-labani” because it appears even shorter than the lemma despite it having a preposition and there is no indefinite form, so the article can’t be dropped. My argument is not strong, I admit but we should be helpful to users. A kind of soft redirect would be good, and I don’t suggest to keep other prepositional collocations. I’ll let the community decide. —Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 01:38, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
Palaestrator verborum, what you wrote makes me question your age. I honestly think you're a child. In any case, I'm not wasting more time with this nonsense. —Stephen (Talk) 05:25, 11 November 2017 (UTC)


correct form is surbaissé --Diligent (talk) 12:14, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

  • Delete unless there's a verb surbaiser ("to over-fuck"???) —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 17:24, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
  • nope, fun but no... you'll see it attested in Google search but there are spelling mistakes. --Diligent (talk) 11:10, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
    • There are a few legit occurrences: [20], [21], [22], [23] and probably others. But this is a rare and humorous formation, not idiomatic. Please let's not start creating entries like fr:rererererecommencer... --Barytonesis (talk) 22:06, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
      • If there are at least three durably archived usages, the form can be created. We have rare and humorous formations here, and everything written as a single word is automatically considered idiomatic. The same applies to rererererecommencer: if it meets CFI, we can have an entry for it. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 15:21, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

chemotherapeutic agent[edit]

SoP? Equinox 21:25, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Delete Kiwima (talk) 02:52, 11 November 2017 (UTC)


Discussion moved to WT:Requests for verification/Non-English#ҡашан.

em mệt[edit]

Tagged with the reason "Insignificant phrase" but not listed. @PhanAnh123 Please don't forget to add a nomination here as well. Wyang (talk) 07:29, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Delete per the reason above. Wyang (talk) 07:29, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

anh mệt[edit]

Same rationale. Wyang (talk) 07:30, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Move one entry to tôi mệt (possibly leaving two redirects behind) with one sense - "I'm tired". tôi is a more generic or neutral word for "I". --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 07:36, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

aktuelle begivenheder[edit]

I don't see how this is more than the sum of its parts.__Gamren (talk) 15:27, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Doesn't the same apply to current events, current affairs? Maybe it's good enough for a phrasebook entry? - 15:30, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
Perhaps it is. I am not sure of the rationale for including current events, but aktuel is a little more specific than {{m|en|current}.__Gamren (talk) 19:00, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

陳留王, 陈留王[edit]

Personal names. Dokurrat (talk) 02:23, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

Not surname + given name. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 02:24, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
@Justinrleung Well, should this goes to RFV? Dokurrat (talk) 02:36, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
@Dokurrat: I'm not sure that WT:NSE disallows the inclusion of this word. If you're doubting the existence of this word, you can definitely send it to RFV, but I think it's easily attestable. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 02:42, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
@Justinrleung: Okay, I'll try to do some more researching before anymore process operations. Dokurrat (talk) 02:45, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

Yes, this is not a personal name, but an imperial title. Dokurrat (talk) 03:50, 26 November 2017 (UTC)


Kindly Split the pages weib and weibex asp

What's there to split? Weibex was copied from Weib (see e.g. Weib in the usage notes and as part of the derived terms) with added flaws (-ex, "{{lb|de|oldeng}}", adjective meaning "[[broad]], [[breit]] [= NHG for broad, wide], [[wide]]" in the noun entry). - 09:28, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

December 2017


This title somehow has three Cyrillic letters in it (cаłоwаć). The all-Latin całować already exists. 23:02, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Speedied. Clear case of bad entry title. — Ungoliant (falai) 17:56, 2 December 2017 (UTC)


Sum of parts. —suzukaze (tc) 09:36, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Keep. This is a calque, 海賊 by itself does not mean "(one who makes or consumes) unauthorized duplication of a protected work". Nardog (talk) 01:35, 5 December 2017 (UTC)


SOP.--2001:DA8:201:3512:BCE6:D095:55F1:36DE 16:14, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Delete given name sense but keep other senses. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 04:15, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
Given name sense removed. Dokurrat (talk) 11:26, 4 December 2017 (UTC)


A weird Spanish entry --Lirafafrod (talk) 19:34, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

[[24]] 04:43, 5 December 2017 (UTC)


A weird and rather rare Spanish misspelling. --Lirafafrod (talk) 19:35, 3 December 2017 (UTC)


Metanalysis of words such as magnificus (magnus + -i- + -ficus). I don't see any case where this analysis with interfix couldn't apply. Possibly worth a redirect to -ficus, as is currently done with -ifer and -iger --Barytonesis (talk) 20:02, 5 December 2017 (UTC)


Metanalysis of words such as significatio (significo + -tio). --Barytonesis (talk) 22:21, 5 December 2017 (UTC)


Same as above, this is just -i- + -ter. --Barytonesis (talk) 01:56, 6 December 2017 (UTC)


all sum of parts. —suzukaze (tc) 03:16, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

It's a short for 二輪車 ("motorcycle, bicycle") as well: [25], so I'm inclined to say keep, but it may have to be rewritten. Nardog (talk) 14:11, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

année tchi veint[edit]

"next year", lit. "the year that is coming" in Norman (= "l'année qui vient" in French). --Barytonesis (talk) 20:45, 8 December 2017 (UTC)


用途 (way of using something) + 変更 (change). —suzukaze (tc) 05:46, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

  • Delete. Nardog (talk) 11:03, 10 December 2017 (UTC)


Sum of parts, per the deletion of Western classical music#English. —suzukaze (tc) 07:59, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Delete. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 18:15, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

café para todos[edit]

tagged but not listed --Lirafafrod (talk) 12:45, 12 December 2017 (UTC)