Wiktionary Request pages (edit) see also: discussions
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{{rfap}} • {{rfdate}} • {{rfquote}} • {{rfdef}} • {{rfd-redundant}} • {{rfeq}} • {{rfe}} • {{rfex}} • {{rfi}} • {{rfp}}

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This page is for entries in Chinese, Japanese, Korean or any other language using an East Asian script. For English entries, see Wiktionary:Requests for verification/English. For entries in other non-English languages, see Wiktionary:Requests for verification/Non-English.

Scope of this request page:

In-scope: terms to be attested by providing quotations of their use
Out-of-scope: terms suspected to be multi-word sums of their parts such as “green leaf”

Templates:

{{rfv}}
{{rfv-sense}}
{{archive-top|rfv}} + {{archive-bottom}}

Shortcut:

WT:RFV

February 2018[edit]

復審[edit]

Seems to be the wrong traditional form of 複審. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 01:26, 4 February 2018 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There're many hits in Google Books.--Zcreator (talk) 01:44, 4 February 2018 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Zcreator: True. Do you think there are any differences between 復審 and 複審 in terms of meaning? (In Cantonese, they would be pronounced differently.) — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 06:55, 5 February 2018 (UTC)Reply[reply]

That is the correct form, and 複審 is a wrong form, which must be verified ([1], [2]). — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 00:03, 12 June 2018 (UTC)Reply[reply]

TAKASUGI Shinji: (This is a really late response.) I'm not sure what you're basing your claim on. Guoyu Cidian only has 複審. It seems like both 復審 and 複審 are valid from the google hits, but there might be some differences in meaning. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 22:27, 7 April 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@廣九直通車 I'm wondering if you're familiar with this term's usage in law, particularly in Taiwan. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 07:59, 6 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Justinrleung: While I'm not the most familiar with Taiwanese law, a search on Chinese Wikisource revealed a number of legal documents using this form:

Article 121, Execution of Penalty in Prisons Act

受刑人對於前條廢止假釋及第一百十八條不予許可假釋之處分，如有不服，得於收受處分書之翌日起十日內向法務部提起復審。假釋出監之受刑人以其假釋之撤銷為不當者，亦同。 [MSC, trad.]
受刑人对于前条废止假释及第一百十八条不予许可假释之处分，如有不服，得于收受处分书之翌日起十日内向法务部提起复审。假释出监之受刑人以其假释之撤销为不当者，亦同。 [MSC, simp.]

Shòuxíng rén duìyú qián tiáo fèizhǐ jiǎshì jí dì yībǎi shíbā tiáo bùyǔ xǔkě jiǎshì zhī chùfēn, rú yǒu bùfú, dé yú shōushòu chùfēn shū zhī yìrì qǐ shí rì nèi xiàng fǎwù bù tíqǐ fùshěn. Jiǎshì chū jiān zhī shòuxíng rén yǐ qí jiǎshì zhī chèxiāo wèi bùdāng zhě, yì tóng. [Pinyin]

(please add an English translation of this example)

Chapter 3 Heading, Protection of Civil Servant Act

復審程序／复审程序 ― fùshěn chéngxù ― (please add an English translation of this example)

Enclosed Judgment of the Supreme Administrative Court, Judicial Yuan Interpretation No. 611

原告不服，提起復審、再復審，均遭決定駁回，遂提起行政訴訟。 [MSC, trad.]
原告不服，提起复审、再复审，均遭决定驳回，遂提起行政诉讼。 [MSC, simp.]

Yuángào bùfú, tíqǐ fùshěn, zài fùshěn, jūn zāo juédìng bóhuí, suì tíqǐ xíngzhèngsùsòng. [Pinyin]

(please add an English translation of this example)

Regards.廣九直通車 (talk) 10:12, 7 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@廣九直通車: Thanks for the quotes. I looked at the English translations of some of these, and it seems like it refers to "deliberation" (Protection of Civil Servant Act) or "petition" (Execution of Penalty in Prisons Act). Are these the same thing, and how do these correspond to our current definition of "to review a legal case; to retry a case"? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 17:00, 7 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Sgconlaw I wonder if you'd be able to help here. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 16:54, 23 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Justinrleung: what are you asking me? — Sgconlaw (talk) 17:11, 23 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Sgconlaw: The question above about "deliberation" and "petition". — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 18:04, 23 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Justinrleung: I'm afraid my Mandarin isn't good enough to help. But for what it's worth, I used Google Translate on the passages quoted above, and they seem to be applying sense 2 of 復審 ("to review a legal case; to retry a case"). I have no idea if this is different from 複審, though. — Sgconlaw (talk) 18:06, 23 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Sgconlaw: I should've linked to the English translations.

監獄行刑法 Prison Act, Article 121: Where an inmate disagrees with the decision to cancel parole in the preceding paragraph or a decision to deny parole, he/she may file a petition to the Ministry of Justice within the ten (10) days starting from the next day following the delivery of decision to the inmate.

公務人員保障法 Civil Service Protection Act, Article 25: 公務人員對於服務機關或人事主管機關（以下均簡稱原處分機關）所為之行政處分，認為違法或顯然不當，致損害其權利或利益者，得依本法提起復審。 A civil servant may petition for deliberation pursuant to this Act against an administrative action, taken by the agency he/she serves or the Personnel Management Authority(hereinafter referred to as "the original action agency"), which, he/she thinks unlawful or obviously illegitimate and causes the infringement of his/her rights or interests.

Do these sound like it's the same as "to review a legal case; to retry a case"? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 18:41, 23 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The literal translation provided by Google Translate seems to indicate a request for a legal case to be reviewed. Petition is too broad; that just refers to a request in general. — Sgconlaw (talk) 20:27, 23 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

April 2020[edit]

中共病毒[edit]

Google News results are exclusively from Falun Gong-related sources (soundofhope, epochtimes, ntdtv). Also probably missing a context label regarding connotation? —Suzukaze-c ◇◇ 08:28, 3 April 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

For Chinese, I've added four quotes at Citations:中共病毒. Two are from Epoch Times-related media. The earliest we have is from 陳泱潮, who does not seem to be affiliated with Falun Gong, and another is from 梁文韜, who isn't known to be affiliated with Falun Gong either. 中共病毒 should be cited. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 19:00, 19 June 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RFV passed for 中共病毒. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 01:47, 29 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

中共肺炎#Chinese, #Japanese[edit]

Ditto. —Suzukaze-c ◇◇ 08:31, 3 April 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The terms were coined, likely partly in condemnation of the Chinese Communist Party's cover-up of the epidemic in Wuhan. --Apisite (talk) 08:39, 3 April 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

If all cites are coming from Falun Gong-related sources as suggested by Suzukaze-c, we probably shouldn't consider them independent sources. We need to look outside of Falun Gong sources. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 21:53, 11 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Why? There's 40,000 to millions of Falun Gong followers out there; that's more than speakers of many languages we document here. If three leftist German newspapers used a term, we wouldn't consider them not independent sources.--Prosfilaes (talk) 23:26, 23 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Prosfilaes: Maybe I was mistaken about the extent of association of these media outlets to a single organization. I'm not 100% sure how the organization of Falun Gong practitioners works. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 23:39, 23 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It seems like it can be traced back to even earlier sources that use 中共病毒 not to refer to COVID-19, but other viruses that have been associated with China, like H5N1 (I think), as in this article. But again, it comes from Epoch Times. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 20:44, 11 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I put four instances in Japanese at Citations:中共肺炎. One is from Epoch Times, one from Nico Nico and cited to Epoch Times, but one is in Mainichi Shimbun (quoting a Japanese politician), and one on a surfing blog. They don't span more than one year, but they seem to be more or less independent (discounting the two Epoch-sourced quotes). Cnilep (talk) 08:05, 3 March 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I added another from this past week, so now they span nearly one year (about a week short). It's from 'G-News'; I don't know if that is Falun Gong-related, but the story certainly seems anti-PRC. I've also added "sometimes offensive" to the entry, as the usage is exclusionary and in at least one case has been called "hate speech". Cnilep (talk) 01:14, 7 March 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Cnilep: are you sure the quotes you added are from durably archived sources? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 22:22, 19 June 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I don't know who publishes the web pages or what their archiving policies are, but they include links. You can check them out if you have any doubt. (The exception is Mainichi Shimbun, which is a national newspaper and is durably archived in libraries and databases.) Cnilep (talk) 00:45, 21 June 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Cnilep: Sorry, I just saw your reply now. I don't think web pages are generally considered durably archived. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 14:43, 7 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Justinrleung: Um, OK. It's slightly annoying that some editors suggest web pages are not acceptable while other insist that only materials available online are acceptable, but such is the nature of a large group project, I suppose. Cnilep (talk) 23:01, 7 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Epoch Times is archived in Lexis/Nexis, so that and Mainichi Shimbun make two. I'll look for another. Cnilep (talk) 23:09, 7 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Cnilep: Thanks. I don't think only materials available online are acceptable, just preferred (according to how I am reading WT:ATTEST). I don't think web pages are acceptable unless they are somehow durably archived. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 23:15, 7 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Japan Business Press appears to self-archive (their members page says "more than 30,000 archived articles over the 10 years since the first issue"), but is not in Lexis/Nexis or Proquest. If that's acceptable, it's the third archived (but not easily accessible) attestation. Cnilep (talk) 03:40, 8 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Actually, the durably archived ones currently there are only from 2020, but Epoch Times continues to use the phrase. Cnilep (talk) 03:47, 8 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Cited for 中共肺炎#Chinese. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 16:20, 8 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RFV passed for 中共肺炎#Chinese. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 00:59, 17 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Japanese: "中共肺炎" "コロナ" -"大紀元時報" -"大紀元" remains barren. Perhaps online-sources (WT:ATTEST) can help at this point, but Twitter search top results being from 2020 and 2021 are not promising. —Fish bowl (talk) 21:39, 12 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Latest results in Twitter "live" search: Dec 2022, Sep 2022, June 2022. —Fish bowl (talk) 02:31, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

消息[edit]

Rfv-sense: omen. Added by an anon IP. ---> Tooironic (talk) 22:18, 14 April 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I have also rfv-sensed the other definitions added by said IP: essence. Mechanism. Hinge; crux. These are not in any dictionaries I have access to, and are certainly not used in the vernacular. ---> Tooironic (talk) 22:19, 14 April 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Tooironic: These seem to be from Hanyu Da Cidian. I think "omen" = "征兆，端倪", "essence" = "奥妙；真谛；底细", "mechanism" = "机关，发动机械装置的枢机", and "hinge; crux" = "引申指起决定性作用的事物"? I think the definitions could definitely be refined. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 21:50, 28 April 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Modified "omen" as "sign; clue" and "mechanism" as "hidden mechanical device that moves other parts of the contraption when touched". These two senses are cited. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 20:30, 24 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RFV passed for "omen" > "sign; clue" and "mechanism" > "hidden mechanical device that moves other parts of the contraption when touched". The other senses still need verification. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 02:06, 28 April 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

June 2020[edit]

ダイパー[edit]

"diaper" —Suzukaze-c ◇◇ 19:03, 2 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Daijisen has it here on Kotobank, but none of the other Kotobank dictionaries are listed (KDJ, Daijirin). It's also missing from Weblio's monolingual Japanese dictionaries and its E-J bilingual resources, and Eijiro also doesn't have it.

Looking at Google Books hits, I see a lot of scannos for ダイバー (daibā, “diver”), ダイバージェンス (daibājensu, “divergence”), that kind of thing.

Seems like it's probably cromulent, but also rare. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 23:10, 2 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I think I've seen this on a diaper changing station in a bathroom. Searching for the expanded form ダイパーチェンジ "diaper change" turns up a lot of use examples for brand name products. —Soap— 13:40, 7 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I added two uses of 'diaper cake' (which is apparently a thing, originally from the US and now popular in Japan?) and one of 'diaper pot'. I also labeled it as uncommon and used in compounds. Cnilep (talk) 03:59, 9 March 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

兔 (Chinese, Etymology 2)[edit]

The reading and definition looks suspiciously like a ghost entry inherited from earlier lexicographers. The source seems to be the 《觀象玩占》, an astrology book attributed to Li Chunfeng. A passage from the book reads 辰星…一曰免星 link, where the character 免 could have been a misprint of something including 兔 or 㲋. The 《古今圖書集成》, quoting from the passage, corrects this character as 毚 link to the page. 《集韻》 has an entry 毚兔【辰星別名，或省】 link to page, which in the Jiyun formula seems to say these two characters 毚 and 兔 were considered variants to each other without specifying the linguistic context or referring to attestable literature. Overall the textual quality of these appearances has been subpar, and the reading, especially the tonal value in modern Mandarin, is not well-supported.

--Frigoris (talk) 15:46, 10 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Frigoris: I just got around to reply. Hanyu Da Zidian quotes Shiji for this: 《史記·天官書》：“兔過太白。”司馬貞索隱：“《廣雅》云：‘辰星謂之兔星。’則辰星之別名兔。或作毚也。”張守節正義：“《漢書》云：‘辰星過太白，閒可械劍。’明《廣雅》是也。” — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 17:07, 29 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The Shiji passage should be enough for verification. However, it seems that the 欽定四庫全書, 摛藻堂四庫全書薈要, 益雅堂叢書 and 古今逸史 versions of 廣雅 all read "辰星謂之...免星", which is different from what 司馬貞 quotes. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 17:29, 29 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Just checked the different versions of Shiji, and it seems like the 欽定四庫全書, 汲古閣毛氏, 古香齋袖珍十種, 北京大學圖書館, 摛藻堂四庫全書薈要, 乾隆御覽四庫全書薈要, 哈佛燕京圖書館 (1), 哈佛燕京圖書館 (2) and 武英殿二十四史 editions all have 免. I wonder why modern editions of Shiji have 兔. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 18:38, 29 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Justinrleung, thank you very much for the research. If you ask me, I can only say "textual corruption", which is a huge problem with the Shiji in general. I checked the (Semi-)Critical Edition by Gu Jiegang et al. which reads 毚 in the passage quoting the lost text of Huangfu Mi, and 免 in the main text. OTOH, the 《廣雅》 passage as quoted in the Shiji CE reads 兔, but the 《廣雅》 was a secondary source considerably later than the Shiji, and its own textual history may just be as bewildering. For example, this passage from the purported Ming-era edition (i.e. same as the 古今逸史 edition you quoted above) clearly reads 免. I haven't got the time to dig into the critical edition of 《廣雅疏義》, which you can read here. --Frigoris (talk) 19:35, 29 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

August 2020[edit]

哉[edit]

Rfv-sense: grammatical particle for perfective aspect (in Wu language). The quotation does not seem to match the sense: the translation given there is an imperative sentence. --Frigoris (talk) 14:09, 30 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Frigoris: 蘇州方言詞典 defines it as “句末助詞，表示變化或新情况，相當于北京話句末助詞‘了’” and lists these examples: “吾吃仔飯～｜大家來吧，吃飯～｜落雨～｜天要好～｜再等等，俚馬上來～｜吾一走，屋裏嘸不人燒飯～｜俚葛閑話好相信，太陽要從西天出來～！”. 上海方言詞典 is a little more vague and defines it as “語氣詞，表時態，用於句子末尾，相當於北京話的‘了’” and lists these examples: “落雨～｜好～，𧟰吵～｜我明朝就要回屋裏去～｜儂再稍爲等一歇，我已經辣着鞋子～，就要好快～”. 上海话大词典 divides it into several definitions:

（旧）表示过去叙事情况下的语气：过一歇，伊又出去～｜后来我去睏～。
（旧）表示事件的现在状态：生病～｜钟停～｜苹果熟～｜三点钟～｜天晴～。
与进行体助词“辣辣/辣海”一起，表示现在进行时态：伊辣辣读书～｜大楼辣海造～｜伊辣来～。
与存继承助词“辣海/辣辣”一起表示现在完成时态：奶妈请辣海～｜我家生买辣辣～。
与表示即行的“快”一起用时，表示现在即行时态：水开快～｜苹果熟快～。

The only definition that seems to fit "perfective aspect" is the 4th sense in 上海话大词典, but it seems to not be contributing to that meaning without 辣海/辣辣. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 19:12, 30 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Justinrleung: thank you for checking the rfsense. So indeed the quotation was misleading by not matching the definition it appears under. This really can use some cleanup. --Frigoris (talk) 09:16, 31 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

仔 in 吾吃仔飯哉 is grammatical particle for perfective aspect. If you want to find 哉 as grammatical particle for perfective aspect, see [3]. EdwardAlexanderCrowley (talk) 16:47, 21 June 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

September 2020[edit]

水[edit]

Is Central Bai written in Chinese characters, and if so, is this the actual character used for /ɕy³³/? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 02:41, 12 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Bai was written in chinese characters in a system called 僰文, using the characters to represent Bai words and written in a Bai syntax. As for the character itself, it appears in 山花碑/词记山花·咏苍洱境碑, which is written in 僰文, in the line：煴煊茶水（口㱔）𪢂呼（translation into Chinese:热煮茶水相对饮)[4]，due to the fact that it is written in a Bai syntax, it would be fair to assume it was probably composed in Bai, therefore be pronounced in Bai --Henry Wonh (talk) 01:59, 14 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Henry Wonh: Thanks! This looks like good evidence. I'll try to incorporate this into the entry. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 06:08, 14 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I've checked 赵橹's book and it seems like the text is slightly different from the blog post, and it's translated slightly differently as well. Either way, I've incorporated it into the entry, so this should be cited. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 06:35, 14 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Henry Wonh: Actually, one more question. Is it actually Central Bai we're dealing with, or some other variety of Bai? The poem was written many centuries ago, but I'm not sure how much we actually know about the Bai languages at that time. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 06:41, 14 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Justinrleung: Well, even though the stella was found in Dali city, it southern Bai territory, most sources claim central and southern Bai are mutually intelligible and are essentially dialects of each other, so I wouldn’t think it would pose a big problem, maybe merge the multiple Bai subsections?—-Henry Wonh (talk) 07:49, 14 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Henry Wonh: If it's in Southern Bai territory, one way we could go about this is to assume that it's Southern Bai, which would mean it's not cited for Central Bai. However, since this was written long ago, I wonder how much the Bai varieties have diverged then. Are there 僰文 texts from elsewhere? Merging Bai varieties is a bigger discussion to be had since it'll affect all other Bai entries we have. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 14:39, 14 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Lama Bai 水[edit]

Southern Bai 水[edit]

Also in these Bai varieties. Given the cited text above, we need to determine which variety the text belongs to. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 23:22, 19 October 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@幻光尘 —Suzukaze-c (talk) 03:22, 21 October 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Added in diff, by the user pinged above.) - -sche (discuss) 16:08, 21 October 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ニット[edit]

Rfv-sense "knit".

Rfv-sense "nit".

—Suzukaze-c (talk) 08:27, 20 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ニット (nitto, “knit”) -- See various entries at Kotobank, Weblio. Seems to be a pretty well established loanword. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 22:32, 22 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ニット (nitto, “nit”) -- Much less common. I do find this listed in my JA ↔ EN medical dictionary alongside alternative form ニト (nito), and also in a scientific jargon glossary with a separate sense of "candela per square meter". Confirming this one in the wild is much more difficult, however. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 22:32, 22 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Checking knit#Noun (which I probably should have done beforehand: I actually wasn't aware that knit was usable as a noun, and believed the entry to be a suspicious mess created by equating etymology with definition, "ニット is from English knit and therefore means knit"), I see that it means (1 of 2 definitions) "knitter garment".

I also added a sense "knitwear" to ニット, so I suppose the RFV for this sense is essentially pointless, and I've removed the sense (maintaining that knit as a noun is not an intelligible definition) and the tag from ニット.

—Suzukaze-c (talk) 23:36, 22 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Regarding ニット (nitto, “nit”): I found several mentions of a product called ニットピッカー (nit-picker), either on shopping sites (which tend not to be durably archived) or mommy blogs such as this. I wonder if that is just transliteration of a product name originally in English, though. I also found a 2019 translation of Victorian Lady's Guide etc., which uses ruby in a way that suggests readers would not recognize the katakana word.

ニットピッキング(シラミの卵とり)

I associate that style of ruby in film subtitles, where they want to include the (transliterated) non-Japanese word and also a translation. Cnilep (talk) 05:01, 17 December 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ニット as “[nit]” is pretty common: [5], although specialists always write it as nit. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 06:38, 17 March 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

著落[edit]

Rfv-senses: "solution" and "result; outcome". Tagged by @Tooironic but not listed. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 22:58, 22 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Tooironic Seems like you added these in this diff. Dr. Eye Chinese English Bilingual Dictionary gives "the solution to a problem" as one of the definitions. "Solution" is also given in mdbg (not that this is necessarily right). "Result; outcome" might be mergeable with "place to settle", I think, which seems to be a little bit inaccurate without something like "result" since Guoyu Cidian and Liang'an Cidian define that sense with 歸宿 and 結果/結局. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 16:00, 17 February 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

January 2021[edit]

生蛋[edit]

RfV for Japanese entry: alternative spelling of セイタン. --沈澄心 ✉ 04:20, 31 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The JA WP article mentions this spelling in the 語源 (gogen, “Etymology”) section at w:ja:グルテンミート#語源, but I have not been able to confirm this in the wild (or at any rate, not online). ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 19:06, 1 February 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

February 2021[edit]

章[edit]

Rfv-sense: "order". Tagged by @Frigoris but not listed. RcAlex36 (talk) 16:20, 19 February 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The sense "chapter" may come from "rule" or "order, arrangement", but I can't find "order, arrangement" at the first 500 of zhwikisource. Any evidence before Han dynasty? EdwardAlexanderCrowley (talk) 04:32, 7 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I found: "《孔子家语·曲礼子贡问》：“孔子曰：‘季氏之妇可谓知礼矣，爱而无私，上下有章。’”", "交章论列" EdwardAlexanderCrowley (talk) 04:39, 7 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@EdwardAlexanderCrowley, it seems the gloss "order" in the Definitions on that page refers to the usage as in 雜亂無章. Although the 孔子家語 almost certainly belongs to the pseudepigrapha, we can use other examples to illustrate the sense. --Frigoris (talk) 07:45, 10 August 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It's hard to say 章≠rule in 雜亂無章. w:zh:孔子家语 says "1973年河北定州八角廊出土了汉墓竹简中有《儒家者言》，内容与《家语》相近。", you know, many ancient books suffers slanders. EdwardAlexanderCrowley (talk) 08:11, 10 August 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Isn't the RFV about the definition item "order"? In particular what order means here, since the word can mean quite different things in English. Currently the sense 3 refers to "rules", which the usex suggests reference to the formal regulations, constitutions, charters, etc. It seems to me that whoever first put the definition "order" here refers to the more abstract and possibly more informal sense of "the quality of being organized", which I think matches the usex I just added (雜亂無章).

The 孔子家語 can match as many Han-era epigraphical texts as it may and is still considered pseudepigraphy, not because the text is "fake", but because the authorship very likely doesn't match how it has been claimed to be in the literary tradition. In fact there's little agreement about the true "authorship" if it has one. The text includes many passages that are paralleled in other classical works. If we can find them, it's preferable to use those more certain texts than the secondary literature. --Frigoris (talk) 08:22, 10 August 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Frigoris Let's read 送孟東野序, which is the origin of 雜亂無章. “其为言也，乱杂而无章” means 不講文法（no clear sense/logic of literature）, do you agree? EdwardAlexanderCrowley (talk) 09:31, 17 August 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Frigoris, Crowley666 Yes this sense should refer to being orderly, not to rules or distinctions, as this is how other dictionaries describe it (eg. as 條理); Kroll's Student's Dictionary writes "clearly and properly displayed, well-ordered". Other dictionaries all seem to reference 雜亂無章, but I think it is reasonable to say 章 has extended beyond "rule" here, for example Hanyu Da Cidian gives 無章 as 没有次序.

In some words, 章 seems close to meaning order, tied together with the sense "composition; structure". For example 章法 relates to the organization/arrangement of text, and 成章 relates to a text being well-presented/composed.

Also, here's a line from Chinese characters on Wikipedia: 'Some believe that the name [章草], based on 章 meaning "orderly", arose because the script was a more orderly form of cursive'. It cites Qiu Xigui Chinese writing (文字學概要). Indeed that says '[章] means "orderliness, regulation"' (「章」字有條理，法則等意義) towards the end of section 5.4. Actually the author goes further than Wikipedia suggests, saying that most people agree this explanation is likely correct, in which case 章草 would serve as another example of the sense "orderly". ChromeGames (talk) 10:47, 5 December 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

語言[edit]

Rfv-sense: "written language". Tagged by @Tooironic but not listed. RcAlex36 (talk) 16:26, 19 February 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This sense seems to be added by @Zcreator alt (who I don't think is active anymore) in this diff. It may correspond to "指書面語；詩文的句子。" in Hanyu Da Cidian, though the definition would need some rewording if it is so. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 23:36, 28 June 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

先行[edit]

Rfv-sense: in advance; beforehand. Tagged by @Tooironic but not listed. This sense is common and is found in Pleco. Xiandai Hanyu Cidian and Xiandai Hanyu Guifan Cidian seem to treat it as a verb, though. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 23:25, 20 February 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

September 2021[edit]

規範字[edit]

# [[Simplified Chinese]] character(s); [[Simplified Chinese]]

Entry presumably written because of the lede of the ja.wp article.

One usage found, from Google Books and Scholar searches for 〜と　〜を　〜は: 「通用規範漢字表」について.

—Suzukaze-c (talk) 10:55, 7 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

From my limited searching, this spelling only seems to be used in Japanese works that quote Chinese texts.

Since this kind of usage does indeed happen, and since Japanese readers would indeed read this string with the expected Japanese pronunciation, I think it merits a Japanese entry. However, such an entry definitely needs to be clear about context and usage -- in Japanese writing, the term 簡体字 (kantaiji) is much more commonly used to mean "Simplified Chinese".

google:"規範字" "は" — 2,570 hits
google:"簡体字" "は" — 98,400,000 hits

FWIW, I find more than one hit at Google Books: google books:"規範字" "は" nets me 223 ostensible hits, collapsing to 80 when paging through. Many of these have no preview and the relevant string is not apparent in the snippets shown, but there are enough that do show the string in context to meet CFI. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 18:00, 7 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Are we sure that they are referring to China's "規範字", and not to generic "規範" + "字"? —Suzukaze-c (talk) 22:02, 7 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

For some of the hits, possibly. I only scanned the results briefly. I do note that many of them explicitly mention 中国の, or 台湾, or use phrasing like 「簡体字」または「規範字」, etc. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 06:07, 8 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@H2NCH2COOH —Fish bowl (talk) 00:16, 19 April 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

規範字 is mentioned in: 中国の常用漢字表『通用規範漢字表』が公開計8105字に増加in a document title 『規範字と繁体字、異体字の対照表』; This paper by 辻田正雄; This design and printing glossary, etc.. Plus, 規範字 can hardly be understood separately as "規範" + "字", because this term is used only used in mainland China due to differences in terminologies. In Taiwan, it is called 正體字／正体字 (zhèngtǐzì) or 國字標準字體／国字标准字体 instead; in Japan, its counterpart is 常用漢字字体 (in-table) and 印刷標準字体 (chiefly off-table); no such mandatory standard exists in Hong Kong. --H₂NCH₂COOH (Talk) 02:28, 19 April 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

User 112.197.72.179[edit]

He was on an editing spree today. I didn't think much of it but this edit ([6]) looked weird to me. Could somebody maybe check this edit (and maybe some others) to make sure, this user isn't vandalizing? --Fytcha (talk) 19:07, 13 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Fytcha: This is probably not the right venue for this, but thanks for reporting this. I think maybe WT:TR would be a better place to discuss this. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 19:45, 13 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

it's User:Fumiko Take. meh. —Suzukaze-c (talk) 20:51, 13 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Ya, apparently she's working through some kind of medical reference and hitting a lot of anatomy terms in Japanese. And, unfortunately, making a bit of a hash of it, as at 鎖骨 or 鎖骨下筋.

She's wrong often enough, and she's bull-headed enough, that I'd be tempted to block her to spare us the work of vetting and cleaning up after her -- but she jumps around IP addresses so much that I don't think this would be at all effective. <sigh.../> ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 18:45, 24 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(pinging IP address master @Chuck Entz —Suzukaze-c (talk) 02:37, 25 September 2021 (UTC))Reply[reply]

@Suzukaze-c: I don't know if I can contribute much: although I did save some data when they were blocked and there was a reason to run checkuser on them, this IP range has no connection to anything in that data and I have no grounds for using the checkuser tool now to compare browser data- no one is blocked, and no one is using their anonymity to get away with anything.

The abuse filters we used to stop the Sky UK, Thai and Pays de Loire IPs won't work very well here, because there are lots of entries with both Vietnamese and Japanese sections, so there would be lots of collateral damage- we would be blocking Vietnamese IPs from editing their own language. It would require a more sophisticated regex to verify which language section they were editing, and I'm not exactly a regex master. Coming up with a list of IP ranges to trigger the regex checks is another challenge (fetching wikitext is very expensive as abuse filter operations go, so I don't want to do it for every single IP edit). Chuck Entz (talk) 00:31, 26 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

しんど[edit]

Sense: tire, languor

Although 深度, 進度, 震度, 心土, 伸度 and Sindh can all be read しんど, I'm not aware of this sense of the word. I wonder if the person who added it (an IP address apparently at Peking University) confused it with しんどい (maybe しんどさ)? Speaking of which, the same IP address edited the latter page one minute after they created this one, suggesting that しんどい comes from しんど. I don't think that is the case, either. Am I mistaken? Cnilep (talk) 06:50, 14 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

See also Kotobank, which lists this specific sense. My local copy of Daijirin also notes that adjective しんどい (shindoi) comes from しんど (shindo), which the KDJ explains is in turn apparently a shift from 心労 (shinrō). ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 19:07, 24 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yes, I saw the entry in KDJ only after I had posted this. I've never seen the word used (as far as I can recall), though. So to my question, "Am I mistaken?" apparently the answer is "yes". It's not the first time, and probably won't be the last. Cnilep (talk) 23:46, 24 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

maybe a usage: https://wave.pref.wakayama.lg.jp/bunka-archive/minyou/02-202.html : つづら折りなる細道を／しんどしんどと人々はヨイヤサ

a usage, identical to the Digital Daijisen's usage example: https://www.city.osaka.lg.jp/kodomo/page/0000038769.html : ついつい「あーしんど！」と

—Fish bowl (talk) 21:52, 12 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

味気ない[edit]

Contemporary senses of Etymology 1, あじきない (contra Etymology 2, あじけない, with the same kanji and essentially the same meaning)

I added three quotations before I stopped to think that, based on the writing system, there may no reasonable way to argue whether these are the first or second Etymology.

@Poketalker, Suzukaze-c, Do you have ideas about how this should be handled?

Cnilep (talk) 00:43, 22 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

https://furigana.info/w/味気 :) —Suzukaze-c (talk) 01:58, 22 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

See also Kotobank: Digital Daijisen entry, Kokugo Dai Jiten entry. Both give both kana renderings, あじきない (ajikinai) and あじけない (ajikenai). ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 18:47, 24 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

PS: Thinking more specifically about the challenge that Cnilep brings up about identifying etym and sense, I see that the KDJ entry specifically indicates that the あじけない (ajikenai) reading correlates to sense ③ for the あじきない (ajikinai) reading. So presumably any quote that looks more clearly to be senses ① or ② for あじきない (ajikinai) thus cannot fit for あじけない (ajikenai), ruling out that reading. Likewise, the DDJS entry ties sense ① for あじきない (ajikinai) with あじけない (ajikenai), while the other senses for あじきない (ajikinai) appear to be specific to that reading. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 19:05, 24 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

November 2021[edit]

人家[edit]

Rfv-sense: "dwelling". Tagged by @Tooironic. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 02:32, 11 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Justinrleung, Tooironic: This sense ("dwelling" = "house" but more formal) exist in Japanese and Korean and also CC-CEDICT (along with "somebody else's house"). I have just created a Japanese and Korean (hanja) entry. I couldn't find anything solid to confirm this sense in Chinese but this search may give interesting matches. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 02:57, 11 January 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Welcome back Anatoli! It may be a matter of translation. Probably, "household" and "dwelling" can be combined. In Chinese the sense is just 住户. ---> Tooironic (talk) 03:14, 11 January 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Tooironic: Thanks, Carl! If the sense "dwelling" is invalid, do you want to remove it? --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 22:56, 11 January 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Sure, but what about the RfV process? ---> Tooironic (talk) 22:59, 11 January 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Tooironic: Ah, OK, if you just want it to take its course. Since you added, I thought you might want to cite it. Otherwise, it will be removed eventually. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 02:20, 12 January 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Attested in 现代汉语词典. Also, "東南形勝，三吳都會，錢塘自古繁華。煙柳畫橋，風簾翠幕，參差十萬人家。" by 柳永, etc.. --H₂NCH₂COOH (Talk) 03:37, 19 April 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@H2NCH2COOH: Thanks for the quote. We'd need two more for this to pass RFV. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 08:04, 19 April 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@H2NCH2COOH: Also, I wanted to clarify which sense in 现代汉语词典 are you translating as "dwelling"? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 08:07, 19 April 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Justinrleung: 住户. The example given in the dictionary is "这个村子有百十户~". And also, "遠上寒山石徑斜，白雲深處有人家" by 杜牧, "高秋水村路，隔㟁見人家" by 李中, "三藏道：「悟空，前面人家，可以借宿，明早再行。」" and "只奔山南坡下，忽見山凹之間有一座草舍人家。" in 西遊記, etc. --H₂NCH₂COOH (Talk) 08:29, 19 April 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@H2NCH2COOH: 现代汉语词典 defines 住户 as 定居在某处的家庭或有单独户口的人 - isn't this referring to the occupants of a house rather than the dwelling place itself? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 08:36, 19 April 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Perhaps it is a bad explanation then. See https://dict.revised.moe.edu.tw/dictView.jsp?ID=135766&q=1&word=%E4%BA%BA%E5%AE%B6#order1 for definition explicitly mentioning the house itself. --H₂NCH₂COOH (Talk) 08:46, 19 April 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

December 2021[edit]

采[edit]

Rfv-senses 17-21: "thing; to exploit, to accept; currency; tomb" (moved to the end of the entry for now)

These senses were all added in one edit along with many other senses that I can account for. However I'm having trouble verifying these couple of senses. Any ideas where they come from or where they are used? Perhaps as alternative forms?

Speaking of alternative forms, the page currently has a lot of them. But I'm reluctant to call 采 an alternative form of other characters like 採 and 彩, because they seem like they might be alternative forms of each other rather than having one character be the main character (although certainly one is more specialized). Perhaps there's a better way to organize things? ChromeGames (talk) 02:03, 6 December 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@ChromeGames: These senses seem to be in Hanyu Da Cidian (at least).

thing = 事 (Shujing)
to exploit; to gain = 取得，获取 (?) (Hanshu, etc.)
to accept = 采纳，采用 (?) (Sanguozhi, etc.)
currency = 币帛 (Shiji)
tomb = 坟墓 (Fangyan) — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 18:32, 6 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Justinrleung: Thanks for confirming their presence, I wonder if I have a different edition/version of Hanyu Da Cidian though since I don't see all of those definitions that you mention? Although I do find:

to exploit; to gain = 摘取 (?)
to accept = 采纳，采用

ChromeGames (talk) 04:39, 7 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@ChromeGames: Sorry, my mistake. I meant Hanyu Da Zidian. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 05:04, 7 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Justinrleung: Gotcha, I should definitely try to get my hands on that one. Thanks, ChromeGames (talk) 21:44, 9 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

グリーンピース[edit]

Doesn't seem to be a household name or have attributive use like "Greenpeace types" in English. General Vicinity (talk) 08:10, 27 December 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Greenpeace sense) General Vicinity (talk) 08:12, 27 December 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I don't know that it is a household name, but it is used to refer to the group as such, especially when they protest against Japanese whaling. I've added three quotations. Two refer to "the environmental group Greenpeace" (but then, so does the New York Times), and the other is in a book about environmental action, so some further discussion may be warranted. Cnilep (talk) 02:28, 11 January 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

If we accept quotes like "X, an organization that Y's, did Z" it opens the door to an awful lot of companies etc. I don't think it shows they have "entered the lexicon" and Wiktionary's current stance seems much more restrictive (no entry for Walmart for example). General Vicinity (talk) 03:18, 11 January 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

My understanding (possibly incorrect?) of Wiktionary:Criteria_for_inclusion#Company_names is that we don't create entries for non-lexical company names. However, if we already have an entry that happens to match a company name, I don't know that this means we shouldn't include information about that company name as a lexical item (and not an encyclopedia article).

For Walmart, we only have one thing that matches that grapheme -- the company name. Since there is no lexical item other than a company name that matches that grapheme, we don't have an entry.

For グリーンピース (gurīnpīsu), we have two things that match that grapheme -- "green peas", and "Greenpeace". Since there is a lexical item other than a company name that matches that grapheme, we do have an entry. And since we have an entry anyway, it strikes me as perversely unhelpful to not include the name as well as the common noun.

That's my two bits, at any rate. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 19:21, 11 January 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

January 2022[edit]

ブス[edit]

# [[busbar]] —Fish bowl (talk) 05:18, 3 January 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The hits at google:"ブス" "電源" suggest that this is a domain-specific jargon term, shortening of ブスバー (busubā), in turn apparently an alternative for バスバー (basubā). If we have any appropriate labels or categories for "spelling pronunciation" to describe the shift from /a/ in バス (basu) to /u/ in ブス (busu), that would apply here. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 19:50, 11 January 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

February 2022[edit]

では[edit]

Japanese. Rfv-senses: Alternative form of ては (Etymology 3); and short for ではないか (Etymology 4)

Of Etymology 3, Eirikr says, “How so? Examples? Unclear that this etym even warrants inclusion.” and “Etym 3 is just a usage of the particle combo in Etym 1, whereas ては would presumably be from って (tte) + は (wa)”. [Etymology 1 is ‘Compound of で and は’, ‘at, in’.]

It is similarly not clear to me that this is a separate lexical item.

Of Etymology 4, Eirikr says, “Etym 4 is not a verb, but a different use of the particle combo in Etym 1, eliding the negative coupula ない (nai) and question particle か (ka).”

Note that I changed the POS from verb-form to particle. Even so, I do not think that this is a lexical item as such. It is just a use of the Etymology 1 sense.

(Note, too, that I tried to rectify a separate issue noted by Eirikr: “No appropriate sense to cover the では in それでは, so the Etym 2 section is effectively broken (user goes to それでは, gets no explanation)”. That is not related to this RfV, but others might want to see if you disagree with what I did.)

@Eirikr, Fish bowl, Nardog, 荒巻モロゾフ, Shen233

Cnilep (talk) 00:29, 9 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Etymology 3 seems to be the verb conjugation, as in 噛んではいた.

As for Etymology 4: I considered ではないか to be formed from である, and では to be a shortening (or ellipsis?) of that, hence "verb form". —Fish bowl (talk) 02:32, 9 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

agreed, etym 3 and 4 looks redundant to me. Shen233 (talk) 03:14, 9 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I spoke to some people I regard as experts, people who teach and/or write about Japanese grammar. We agree that forms such as 嚙んではいない consist of Verb + は + いる. No one I asked thought that ては / では in this construction is a suffix. Cnilep (talk) 23:35, 9 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@荒巻モロゾフ —Fish bowl (talk) 00:53, 10 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Oh, is that what etym 3 was supposed to be about! Completely unclear as currently written.

But ya, that is simply the conjunctive ～て・～で form of a verb + particle は (wa). You could also have particle も (mo), or や (ya), or と (to), or no particle at all. This is not a lexical item. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 05:39, 10 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Well, it points to ては, which is itself fairly straightforward... —Fish bowl (talk) 04:33, 13 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

As for etym 4, being a very new usage, so it's not in common dictionaries, and at least not a verb since it's not a conjugated word. The word which has been elided can be not only ないか, but also polite forms ないですか and ありませんか, honorific form ございませんか and etc. If there were an improvement, it might be to explain it as "negative copula + か".

Etym 3 occurs when the verb root is ended in nasal (-g-, -n-, -m-). で in etym 3 is originated from classical verb つ (tsu), while で in etym 1 is from particle にて (nite), so they are different things.--荒巻モロゾフ (talk) 18:43, 10 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@荒巻モロゾフ: But those are not lexical items. Those are grammatical constructions. The ～て or ～で is part of the verb (adjective, etc.) conjugation, while は, as well as ない, ございません, or what have you are separate lexical items. Similarly, whether one of those items is elided is a matter of grammar and/or usage, not a part of the lexicon.

As such they are likely to be found in grammars, and not in dictionaries. See for example Nihongo Bunkei Jiten (1998):

【ては】

［N／Na　では］

［A-くては］

［V-ては］

述語のテ形と「は」の組合さったもの。

(“ては. noun では, adj-くては, verb-ては. Combination of the te-form of the predicate with ‘wa’.”)

Cnilep (talk) 01:51, 13 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RFV failed Cnilep (talk) 02:38, 24 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hm, that it exists is not really disputed. The appropriate treatment IMO would be RFD or RFC. では and ては (verb suffix) should be kept or deleted together as a set. —Fish bowl (talk) 00:48, 25 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Then let's delete. The verb suffix portion is only the て (te) or で (de), exclusive of the は (wa), which is clearly the particle and not part of the suffix. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 01:33, 25 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Weak keep ては・では (verb suffix); or else move its content to は;

keep では (ではないか). —Fish bowl (talk) 01:29, 1 April 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

庭[edit]

Japanese. Rfv-sense: In Man'yōshū I, 2, the first verse 山常庭 (Yamato ni wa) proves the historical use of the Man'yōgana 庭 used phonographically to represent the particle には (ni wa) introducing the place where an action is done. —⁠This unsigned comment was added by 2.36.88.48 (talk) at 08:49, 14 February 2022.

User:Poketalker added two rfv-sense requests on 26 February 2017.

~~(historical) place where something is done~~
(regional) at the entrance of a house, a dirt floor

Per 2.36.88.48's comment, the first of these seems to be ateji for the particles には. If that is the case, that would make it archaic (and perhaps uncommon, or obsolete) rather than historical. It would also be a postposition or particle rather than a noun. Cnilep (talk) 23:50, 14 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

For the current sense 2 ("place where something is done"), if we view this as as man'yōgana, this is arguably not entry-worthy, as that is a spelling convention and not a lexical item -- as the anon correctly notes, this is simply locative particle に (ni) + topic / contrastive particle は (wa). And as @Cnilep notes, this is a particle combination, not a noun. Moreover, this usage Old Japanese, not Japanese.

That said, there is a noun 庭 (niwa) with the sense of "place where something is done". The lack of any usex obscured this. My local copy of Daijirin gives examples like 「学びの―」「裁きの―」, where the preceding genitive の (no) means that, grammatically, this niwa must be a noun. The entry also includes a quote from the Nihon Shoki: 「すなわち霊畤(ﾏﾂﾘﾉﾆﾜ)を鳥見の山の中に立てて/日本書紀（神武訓）」 (clearly showing use in a compound noun), and one from the Man'yōshū: 「武庫の海の―良くあらし漁(ｲｻﾘ)する/万葉 3609」 (here coming again after a の (no), marking this as a noun).

I am not sure if the noun sense for "place where something is done" is still current, however -- the quotes are OJP and not JA.

The current sense 3 ("at the entrance of a house, a dirt floor") is included in Daijirin as well, with a quote from a 浄瑠璃 (jōruri, “street theater, storytelling with musical accompaniment, ballad or chant”) play dating to 1720: 「そろばん追取―へくわらりと投げ捨たり/浄瑠璃・天の網島（中）」.

Again, I'm unsure if this sense is still in current use, and if it is regional (as currently labeled), I don't know what regions. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 17:33, 15 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I put three citations of 'place where something is done' on Citations:庭. I also removed 'historical' from the sense, as these are contemporary. Cnilep (talk) 00:35, 18 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No offense directed at you personally. But I am really frustrated at seeing inline citations being removed. I use dictionaries to find "how" and "when" a word and sense have been in use. It supports the given sense as well as etymology. I am most interested in the older citations, but any are better than none. Without any supporting citations, why should I believe any of the definitions given?

While I was not involved in this entry, I have spent many pain staking hours searching and adding citations to find them gone several years later. When there are dozens or even hundreds of citations, moving some to the citation page may make sense, while prioritizing older and relevant citations. But very few entries in this entire project have that many citations. Most entries and senses are missing them completely, which really hurts this dictionary. Bendono (talk) 11:41, 19 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RFV passed for sense "place where something is done". No citations yet for "dirt floor", but it is in other dictionaries. Cnilep (talk) 00:51, 28 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

孳息[edit]

Japanese.

===Noun===
{{ja-noun|じそく}}

# [[fructus]]
# {{lb|ja|archaic}} An increase in fruit
# {{lb|ja|economy}} An increase in revenue

===Verb===
{{ja-verb-suru|tr=trans|じそく}}

# {{lb|ja|archaic}} to increase fruit yield
# {{lb|ja|economy}} to increase revenue

—Fish bowl (talk) 06:02, 25 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Nihon Kokugo Daijisen includes a headword “孳息・滋息”, which it glosses as “生まれふえること。” (“an increase in births”). The dictionary gives one example from Nihon gaishi (1827) written as 滋息, and one use in Shokubutsu shōgaku (Matsumura and Itō 1881) written 孳息. The Matsumura and Itō quote as given in NKD is:

植(しょく)物(ぶつ)は生(せい)活(かつ)の機(から)関(くり)ありて動(どう)物(ぶつ)の如(ごと)く飲(いん)食(しょく)し長(ちょう)育(いく)し孳(じ)息(そく)す

shokubutsu wa seikatsu no karakuri arite dōbutsu no gotoku inshoku shi chōiku shi jisoku su

the mechanism of plant life is much as animals, eating and drinking, raising the next generation, bearing offspring

It seems obscure to me. Cnilep (talk) 06:05, 2 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

March 2022[edit]

コロナ[edit]

Discussion moved to Wiktionary:Requests for deletion/CJK.

したれ[edit]

Japanese. (dialect) imperative of する

Added by User:0.02s, who included the label dialect and asked "what dialect?"

Nihon Hōgen Daijiten includes したれば (alternate form of したら, which in turn is a Tohoku conjunction meaning そうすると, それなら (“if that is the case”)), as well as したれる (form of the verb 湿(しと)る (shitoru, “be damp”)) and ごしたれる (form of the Tohoku/Hokuriku verb ごしむく (goshimuku, “die”)). Nihon Kokugo Daijiten includes したれ‐ど and したれ‐ども, which it derives respectively as する +‎ たり +‎ ど and する +‎ たり +‎ ども (both roughly “doing in spite of”, if I understand correctly), but doesn't mark them as dialect. Both Digital Daijisen and Shin Wa-Ei Chūjiten have してやる, variously glossed as “do for (someone)”, “trick (someone)”, or “do as one pleases”. I can't find したれ as such, though, and don't know whether it might be a form of Tohoku したら or some other (regional? class?) variant of してやる (or maybe just して?). Cnilep (talk) 02:32, 24 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I see a hit over at Nihon Jiten. Their entry for したれ (shitare) indicates that this is 阿波弁 (Awa-ben), the dialect used in Tokushima prefecture on Shikoku. Apparently it's a contraction of してやれ (shite yare). There's also a separate entry for the Kansai dialect phrase どないかしたれや (donai ka shitare ya, loosely, something like “just do whatever already”), where this したれ (shitare) appears to be again a contraction of してやれ (shite yare).

HTH, ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 01:30, 25 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

So, should it be したれ, or したる? The current Digital Daijisen in Kotobank has 為て遣ったり but (oddly) not 為て遣る. (It does, however, gloss 為て遣ったり as 「してやる」 + 「たり」.) I can't tell if this is some kind of defective paradigm, or just "dialect" enough that the editors neglect it a bit. Cnilep (talk) 02:44, 5 April 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ポワ[edit]

Japanese.

===Noun===
{{ja-noun}}

# [https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Phowa phowa]

nothing in google scholar/books —Fish bowl (talk) 09:50, 27 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ポア[edit]

===Noun===
{{ja-noun}}

# [[phowa]]

04:57, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

FWIW, just in preliminary poking, I found that the JA WP has a hint of this at ja:w:ポア, a disambig page -- but the mentioned article about this particular aspect of Tibetan Buddhism, at ja:w:ポア (チベット仏教), is a redlink.

There's some background material about this subject in English at w:Phowa. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 10:28, 13 April 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

if these entries are about w:ja:ポア (オウム真理教), that should be made very clear, and the "Tibetan Buddhism" tag now currently on ポワ should be removed pending cites about Tibetan Buddhism. —Fish bowl (talk) 00:32, 19 April 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

April 2022[edit]

わらわ[edit]

Japanese. Rfv-sense: (modern fiction, women's speech) I; me (used by haughty women of the highest classes of society)

The entry was previously tagged for cleanup as "Very confusing entry, requires clarification and formatting; expansion also needed". I've done my best to clean it up, but I don't know why there are two senses both glossed, essentially, as "I". (The other is: "(archaic, women's speech, humble) I; me".) I guess that if the word is used in contemporary fiction with a different connotation, this might make sense, but I haven't seen such use myself. I should note, though, that Japanese sources say the the pronoun came to be associated with samurai women in early Modern Japanese, so that may be a clue. Cnilep (talk) 06:28, 13 April 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Widespread use: see w:ja:日本語の一人称代名詞#妾（わらわ） (as already written in the entry as a comment), as well as the list of fictional characters using this pronoun at https://dic.pixiv.net/a/わらわ#h2_1 well exceeding 3 independent works. —Fish bowl (talk) 06:32, 13 April 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The Wikipedia article on pronouns includes commentary, but no usage examples. If the usage is easy to find, then could you please add some? Thanks, Cnilep (talk) 07:05, 13 April 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There's also w:ja:わらわ, which mentions humble usage, but says nothing about haughtiness... ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 10:41, 13 April 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Probably not immediately due to a lack of direct access to these works, and I still think it is widespread use. —Fish bowl (talk) 03:30, 20 April 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ゴーブレーキ[edit]

Okinawan.

# [[goldbrick]]

@Kwékwlos —Fish bowl (talk) 00:29, 19 April 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

May 2022[edit]

蛍[edit]

Chinese. Simplified form of 𬠰. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 05:11, 7 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The simplified form of 𬠰 is 蛍 because 𦥯 always becomes 𰃮 in simplified Chinese.

I was not making things up. I was simply following 简化字总表. --172.58.88.250 06:13, 7 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

類推簡化字 need to be attested. None of these are found exactly in 简化字总表. Pinging @H2NCH2COOH for opinion on these. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 22:00, 8 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

They don't require independent verrification. 简化字总表 states that any trad.-simp. pair in Table 2 is generally applicable to other characters, even if it isn't listed in Table 3. --H₂NCH₂COOH (Talk) 04:13, 9 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@H2NCH2COOH Okay, so they are acceptable as 類推簡化字. However, I do think they need to be attested per WT:ATTEST for the purposes of Wiktionary. I'm wondering if other Chinese editors have any opinion on this (Notifying Atitarev, Tooironic, Fish bowl, Mar vin kaiser, RcAlex36, The dog2, Frigoris, 沈澄心, 恨国党非蠢即坏, Michael Ly): — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 18:39, 9 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The problem with clinging to attestation in Chinese is that there are tons of variants (not just simplified Chinese, but also ancient ones), and it is simply impossible to do in practice. And since simplified Chinese is a relatively new and "artificial" thing, it is hard to find cases where the simplified forms of these rare characters being used. However, the Table 2 did tell us how they should theoretically be simplified when used (since the writing system is "artificial"). This rule has been generally applied to rare characters in classical Chinese publications, and there should not be any exception in these cases when they appear (unless you are talking about the guideline of the latest standard, which recommends traditional forms if outside 通用规范汉字表: but that would probably be even more dreadful to deal with). --H₂NCH₂COOH (Talk) 20:52, 9 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Well I do think there is something questionable. Not about the simplification rule, but the existence of the supposed "traditional" forms in Chinese -- are they really used in ancient texts? Or are they just made up for names? --H₂NCH₂COOH (Talk) 21:00, 9 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

𨍶 and 𦦗 are presented in Kangxi Dictionary and some others, so I believe they are actually used in ancient text and their simplified form can be derived accordingly. 𠙦 seems like a variant form of 煢 so they both can possibly be treated as variants. --H₂NCH₂COOH (Talk) 15:14, 11 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Neutral: honestly a lot of the weirder chinese characters don't meet CFI anyway (like {{zh-historical-dict}}, which literally says citations probably don't exist). —Fish bowl (talk) 03:24, 16 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Fish bowl: True, but it should at least be verifiable by the same way as {{zh-historical-dict}} entries, i.e. listed in a published source as a variant/simplified form. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 15:02, 17 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Justinrleung Is it worth formalising Chinese as a limited documentation language when dealing with (say) Middle Chinese and earlier? There might be a better cut-off point. Theknightwho (talk) 14:23, 4 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Theknightwho: Only Standard Written Chinese is well-documented, so any other form of Chinese would be considered limited documentation language. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 14:25, 4 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Justinrleung To be clear, I'm referring to ancient forms only cited in historical dictionaries, such as the ones Fish bowl mentions. If those are already covered by the LDL policy due to being pre-modern anyway then fair enough. Theknightwho (talk) 14:40, 4 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Theknightwho: Yup, that's covered. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 14:53, 4 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I am sceptical that this one can be attested, because 𬠰 (U+2C830) is only used in Taiwanese names[7] and has the reading xué[8]. I'm quite relaxed about including simplified forms of rare characters, but the prima facie evidence suggests this is unlikely to be real. Theknightwho (talk) 16:33, 3 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RFV failed (for now) since the traditional form hasn't even been made. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 04:42, 26 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

荤[edit]

Chinese. Simplified form of 𨍶. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 05:15, 7 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The simplified form of 𨍶 is 荤 because 𤇾 and 車 always become 𫇦 and 车 respectively in simplified Chinese. --172.58.88.250 06:13, 7 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RFV failed (for now) since the traditional form hasn't even been made. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 04:42, 26 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

栄[edit]

Chinese. Simplified form of 𦦗. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 05:21, 7 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The simplified form of 𦦗 is 栄 because 𦥯 always becomes 𰃮 in simplified Chinese. --172.58.88.250 06:13, 7 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The traditional form isn't in the Kangxi dictionary (Unicode says it would appear on p. 1005), but it is in 《字彙補·八》. Theknightwho (talk) 16:48, 3 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RFV failed (for now) since the traditional form hasn't even been made. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 04:42, 26 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

㮠[edit]

Chinese. Simplified form of 𣞁. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 05:23, 7 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The simplified form of 𣞁 is 㮠 because 𤇾 always becomes 𫇦 in simplified Chinese. --172.58.88.250 06:13, 7 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Although neither are presented in mainstream dictionaries, it follows the simplification rule, and Unihan has 㮠 as the simp. form of 𣞁. --H₂NCH₂COOH (Talk) 15:22, 11 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Again, I'm sceptical of this one, because 𣞁 (U+23781) is used in Taiwanese names[9] with the reading róng[10]. @ND381 is that how it's also used in Hong Kong? I assume so from the definition, but I just want to check that that usage applies to both. Theknightwho (talk) 16:58, 3 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Theknightwho: It's probably not an everyday character, so asking anyone about how it's used would not give you much info. I did find 𣞁 in names of people from ancient texts, which I've put in Citations:𣞁. As for whether the simplified form is found, it might be worth looking for simplified reprints of those ancient texts, but I haven't been able to find any of those. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 19:28, 3 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

䒮[edit]

Chinese. Simplified form of 𠙦. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 05:26, 7 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The simplified form of 𠙦 is 䒮 because 𤇾 always becomes 𫇦 in simplified Chinese. --172.58.88.250 06:13, 7 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

𠙦 (U+20666) is a variant of 茕 that is apparently in 中華字海, and also shows up in 教育部異體字字典. Apparently the source for 䒮 is Singapore, but I can't find what list it came from, and this doc submitted to Unicode in February considers it questionable. Theknightwho (talk) 19:03, 3 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Theknightwho: I checked a copy of 中华字海, and it seems like 𠙦 doesn't exist in the dictionary. It is instead 焭 (page 123, 几部 + 10 strokes). — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 18:45, 4 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RFV failed (for now) since the traditional form hasn't even been made. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 04:42, 26 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

June 2022[edit]

マイン[edit]

Japanese. Re-listing from April 2021, as several other items in that thread passed attestation. Cnilep (talk) 06:52, 3 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

# [[mine]]

—Suzukaze-c (talk) 00:37, 15 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It's not common (except in reference to Minecraft or the like), but I found three quotations in various books. Also, the German proper noun Main is more common, so I added a separate etymology. Cnilep (talk) 05:13, 1 April 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The マイン社 of 『ユートロニカのこちら側』 doesn't seem to be related to mining: google:"ユートロニカのこちら側" "マイン社" → アガスティアリゾート―マイン社が運営するサンフランシスコ沖合の特別提携地区 情報銀行を経営しているマイン社 —Fish bowl (talk) 01:42, 25 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I know very little Japanese, but the fact that the Japanese place names in the 1929 and 1957 quotes correspond syllable-by-syllable with the original English names makes me nervous. How do we know that they aren't just transliterating the entire place names as monolithic blocks of foreign text? Why do we assume that the "マイン" in "ブロークン　ヒル　マイン", is a Japanese word for "mine" but not that "ブロークン" is a Japanese word for "broken" or "ヒル" is a Japanese word for "hill"? Chuck Entz (talk) 03:41, 25 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Chuck Entz I'm not terribly enthusiastic about these quotes either but it's also been marked as {{lb|ja|only in compounds}}. —Fish bowl (talk) 09:12, 25 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

July 2022[edit]

煩悩[edit]

Japanese. Rfv-sense:

2020 November 9, “煩悩【ぼんのう】”, in 実用日本語表現辞典‎^[11]:

通俗的には、とりわけ「物欲」および「性欲」を指す意味で用いられることが多い。

In common usage, this commonly carries the meaning of 'worldly desires' (in particular) or 'sexual desire'.

2004, 中谷, 彰宏, 今したいことを、今しよう。‎^[12]:

「私はお酒に目がなくてね。お酒の煩悩は強いですね」[...]「自分はこんなにお酒が好きだ。これを一生の仕事にできないだろうか」と考えることができます。これが、自分の煩悩を客観的に認めるということになっていきます。

'I have a weakness for alcohol... my desire for alcohol really is strong.' [...] One can think, 'I like alcohol this much. This isn't something I can spend my life on, can it.' This is how one can start to objectively recognise one's worldly desires.

— This unsigned comment was added by Jaml0 (talk • contribs) at 02:55, 3 July 2022 (UTC).Reply[reply]

(@Poketalker —Fish bowl (talk) 23:48, 3 July 2022 (UTC))Reply[reply]

@Jaml0, Fish bowl: neologism for the dictionary citation? The 2004 cite most likely refers to "the mental state of klesha" sense. ～ POKéTalker（═◉═） 07:59, 29 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I would caution against relying on 実用日本語表現辞典. 実用日本語表現辞典 is an anonymously published blog. It's not even pseudonymous. It apparently tries to document terms in recently popular usage in the Japanese speaking internet. Weblio apparently includes their entries, but I would say that indicates Weblio's loose standards more than anything else. Whym (talk) 12:15, 10 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

月日夜[edit]

Added by @片割れ靴下 (unpaired sock). Reading tsukuhiyo (OJP tukipi₁ yo₁) doesn't exist. Citation Eastern Old Japanese MYS poem #4378 beings with tsukuhi ya wa... (OJP tukupi₁ ya pa, "as months and days..."). ～ POKéTalker（═◉═） 07:52, 29 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Agreed, should be deleted as "created in error". Unfortunate, but an understandable mistake, given the difficulties in reading OJP.

The text where this appears looks like it's actually 月日 (tsukupi₁, “months and days”) + やは (ya pa, combination of particles ya and pa, indicating doubt; when combined with a negative ending, indicates hope).

See the rendition of MYS poem 20.4378 here at the UVA site, giving the Old Japanese text, a modernized kanji + kana spelling of same, and then just the kana -- this clearly shows that other scholars parse the 都久比夜波 (tu ku pi₁ ya pa) as 月日 (tsukupi₁) + やは (ya pa).

See also the Nihon Kokugo Daijiten entry for やは (Old Japanese ya pa, modern Japanese ya wa) here at Kotobank. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 18:54, 29 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Apparently there is disagreement about this among scholars. Vovin, 日本国語大辞典 & デジタル大辞泉 Rdoegcd (talk) 20:58, 24 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Interesting, thank you @Rdoegcd.

I am puzzled by Vovin's romanization of the man'yōgana spelling 都久比 as tukï pi, when the middle character 久 has only ever had a reading ku, and has never been attested with any reading kï (also notated as ki₂), thought by some to be formed by ancient fusion of ku or ko + i.

I also find disagreement with Vovin's contention that や (ya) + は (pa) was not used in Old Japanese. The NKD entry here at Kotobank cites Man'yōshū poem 1783 as one usage example that is clearly Old Japanese. Even parsing this as yo pa, there are Old Japanese attestations of particle よ (yo) + particle は (wa), as shown here in the NKD.

Those points aside, Vovin does note that there is no attestation in either Western or Eastern Old Japanese for the phrase 月日夜.

Searching more online now in writing this post, Google results show that the string 月日夜 appears aplenty in the Japanese web, albeit most commonly as a business name, read as つきひや (tsukihiya). I haven't the time to analyze the hits in detail, and I cannot tell if this name usage passes muster for WT:CFI. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 20:35, 2 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Eirikr I can't comment on the problems you mentioned, but the way 日本国語大辞典 writes the poem in their entry for 月日 and the lack of an entry for 月日夜 suggest that they treat the line in question as noun 月日 (つくひ) and noun 夜 in juxtaposition rather than a compound noun 月日夜 (つくひよ), and then particle は. So however 夜 is to be interpreted, I have no problem with deleting this entry. Rdoegcd (talk) 03:16, 3 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Eirikr: don't mind too with this being deleted. Speaking of kï/ki₂, there is poem 4390 where it seems to be read as ko₂ko₂ri₂ instead of the usual ko₂ko₂ro₂ like the rest, what are your thoughts? For me, should be the latter despite being from a southern EOJP dialect and Daijisen confirms that it is a likely misreading. ～ POKéTalker （＝◉＝） 07:17, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

August 2022[edit]

睘[edit]

Japanese. Not part of the Kanken. Added here. If this can't be verified then be advised that this is not a one-off; I've encountered quite a number of such spurious kanji entries (and senses). — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 22:55, 5 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Weblio's Kanji Jiten ("Kanji Dictionary") entry explicitly states that this isn't used in Japanese: https://www.weblio.jp/content/%E7%9D%98

‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 07:38, 7 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

睘睘(けいけい) (keikei) would be necessary for a 漢文訓読 reading of the 詩経: google:"睘睘" "けいけい", but that might be the only usage. —Fish bowl (talk) 22:17, 12 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

google:"睘々" "けいけい" → 斯く開創当初より既に睘々踽々(けいけいくく)の輩を以て組織せられたるもの. Someone flexing their vocabulary. —Fish bowl (talk) 22:19, 12 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

[13] using the variant 瞏々 —Fish bowl (talk) 04:14, 30 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

㕣[edit]

Japanese. Not part of the Kanken just like the one above (Talk:睘). Added here. — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 00:58, 6 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Weblio's Kanji Jiten ("Kanji Dictionary") entry explicitly states that this isn't used in Japanese: https://www.weblio.jp/content/%E3%95%A3

‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 07:38, 7 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The current text is just identical to the Unicode definition. However, it is apparently an ancient term for 兗州／兖州 (Yǎnzhōu) (I assume this one, not the modern one), so I don't know if it'll been used for that. Theknightwho (talk) 14:10, 13 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

夋[edit]

Japanese. Not part of the Kanken again. This one was actually added by User:NanshuBot so if it can't be verified it means that there are nonsense kanjis out there that were mass-added by a bot. Who knows how long it's going to take until we find them all. — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 11:25, 9 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

囷[edit]

Japanese. Not part of the Kanken. — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 01:53, 10 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

匊[edit]

Japanese. Not part of the Kanken. — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 02:26, 10 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

娄[edit]

Japanese. Not part of the Kanken. — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 02:42, 10 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

삼대체강[edit]

Korean.

# {{lb|ko|anatomy}} [[trisplanchnic]]

0 results at google:"삼대체강", google scholar:"삼대체강", 1 result at google books:"삼대체강" (두개강 (頭蓋座) , 흉강 (胸陸) , 복강 (腹陸) 의 삼대 체강 에는 공간 이 가득 차 있음에도 불구 하고).

@Spacestationtrustfund —Fish bowl (talk) 00:40, 22 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

October 2022[edit]

觿[edit]

Japanese. An IP claims this "Kanji […] has no known use beyond Literary Chinese writings", in which case it seems not to merit a Japanese entry. But I don't know a whole lot about the niceties of CJK, so bringing it here. This, that and the other (talk) 11:58, 3 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Kotobank has something like that sense for Chinese (in Chu-Nichi Jiten), but elsewhere has the kanji as a variant of くじり (くじること). I added the Japanese sense and formatted the section, but haven't verified the IP user's sense or the readings. Cnilep (talk) 06:43, 9 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This seems like a rare but valid kanji spelling. I'm having a go at this, locating the main entries at the kana spellings of くじり (kujiri) and つのぎり (tsunogiri). (Still in process, links are still red as I write this.) ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 17:38, 28 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

December 2022[edit]

行[edit]

Japanese. Rfv-sense: bank. Added and RFV'd here by @Poketalker but not listed. The DJR contains no such sense but jisho has "bank" both as a suffix sense as well as a counter sense for this reading (こう). The counter sense looks attestable from a quick search. — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 03:34, 1 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

蟷螂が龍車に向う[edit]

Japanese.

I created the entry; Poketalker asks where I found it. I must sheepishly admit that I don't remember. If memory serves, it was in a 19th century kabuki script, but I can't find it right now, nor can I find other attestation. Under the circumstances, unless I or someone else does find it, deletion may be warranted. Cnilep (talk) 08:39, 12 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Cnilep, Poketalker: It's mentioned in a couple sources here at Kotobank for 蟷螂の斧 (tōrō no ono, “the mantis's hatchets”), here for 蟷螂が斧 (tōrō ga ono, “the mantis [takes up] their hatchets”), and here in the NKD for the full expression. That entry includes a cite with slightly different wording from The Tale of the Heike dated to the early 1200s.

See also our entries for truncated forms linked above, and the relevant section in the 蟷螂 (tōrō) entry.

@Cnilep, I think you might have misspelled 隆車 (ryūsha, “a large and magnificent carriage”). ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 22:19, 12 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

January 2023[edit]

𦧺嘢[edit]

Chinese. Rfv-sense: to be caught by the police. This sense was particular during the 2019-2020 Hong Kong protests. Mahogany115 (talk) 06:35, 4 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

PS: this term can also mean "to get COVID" before the pandemic ends. Mahogany115 (talk) 06:36, 4 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

𣀟[edit]

Discussion moved from WT:RFVNE.

Vietnamese. Chữ Nôm character. The reading is và, but I cannot connect it to any of the meanings on its page. As much as I've found is dictionaries saying it means reed, and "một và bông lau" which doesn't make much sense to me. Regireki (talk) 13:38, 31 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

우펀국[edit]

Korean.

The correct and only North Korean spelling must be 우편국(郵便局) (upyeon'guk). --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 02:22, 12 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RFV failed; but as 우편국 has been created using a copy-paste of the content at 우펀국, I have placed a notice on 우편국: {{d|우펀국 should be moved over this page, to preserve page history.}} —Fish bowl (talk) 02:26, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Fish bowl: Done as requested. Pls check if this can be closed. Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 03:03, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

+Closed. —Fish bowl (talk) 03:05, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

February 2023[edit]

潭[edit]

Chinese. Rfv-sense: "Liu River". Tagged by @Tooironic — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 21:11, 6 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Perhaps just a typo; 潭水 exists according to Wikipedia. —Fish bowl (talk) 02:21, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It's not a typo, but it's a historical name for 柳江 according to 漢語大字典. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 04:18, 26 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

倭[edit]

Chinese. Rfv-sense: "dwarf; pygmy" and "dwarfish; short". Previously failed RFV, but readded by @ChromeGames. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 17:38, 23 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This is repeated in https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Graphic_pejoratives_in_written_Chinese&oldid=1140826645#History but that also lacks a citation. Daniel.z.tg (talk) 06:18, 2 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There is 1 non-compound appearance in the Classic of Poetry and another one in the Book of Han. The Shuowen lists defines this term as some kind of appearance at https://ctext.org/dictionary.pl?if=en&id=31413 . There is more at https://ctext.org/dictionary.pl?if=en&char=%E5%80%AD , with "Unihan definition:dwarf; dwarfish, short". Whatever the definition was in ancient times, the modern definition has narrowed to just "Japanese". Daniel.z.tg (talk) 06:23, 2 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

In retrospect these senses are a lot less cited than I expected, so I think removing them would be fair. At the same time, they are so widely claimed that it feels there ought to be some basis for them. ChromeGames (talk) 16:36, 21 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The 倭 in Shijing exists in the compound 倭遲／倭迟 (“tortuous and remote”), which is perhaps a disyllabic morpheme, while the definition given in Shuowen is completely unrelated and unattested elsewhere. @ChromeGames: please don't add senses that lack quotations in monolingual dictionaries for Classical Chinese. RcAlex36 (talk) 10:06, 30 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I suspect the "dwarf" sense is folk etymology that arose from conflation with 矮 (ǎi, “short”). RcAlex36 (talk) 10:14, 30 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RFV failed. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 14:24, 30 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Justinrleung: Someone added this again at https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=%E5%80%AD&diff=prev&oldid=73227461 . This should also be removed from Wikipedia if you believe that these senses don't exist. Daniel.z.tg (talk) 22:52, 2 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ノルマ[edit]

Japanese. Rfv-sense: "thing that happens regularly".

Added by me in [14] and removed by User:Rajzin since it doesn't appear in other reference works.

I note the existence of https://dic.nicovideo.jp/a/ノルマ達成 and https://dic.pixiv.net/a/ノルマ達成 (and also that they define ノルマ using the conventional definition), but cannot find the time for further verification work. I can accept that it is just my misinterpretation.

—Fish bowl (talk) 23:29, 23 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I think I can see where that sense fits. Whether that's included in other reference works is irrelevant if we can find enough clear examples of usage demonstrating this sense to meet CFI (three).

I have no time today for this, possibly not for the near term (various other responsibilities IRL keeping me busy). ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 16:52, 16 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

呵[edit]

Chinese. Rfv-sense: "(Cantonese) Used to point out something that one would like confirmation for.", pronunciation ho1. I believe this should be an alt form of 嗬 (ho2, "(Cantonese) Sentence-final particle used in an interrogative seeking confirmation."), also commonly written as 可 and possibly 呵, but I do not think it would be pronounced ho1. – Wpi31 (talk) 10:09, 24 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Wpi31: I think it should be ho2. Matthews and Yip (Cantonese: A Comprehensive Grammar) writes ho2 as 呵. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 23:46, 24 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

伏地魔[edit]

Chinese.

===Noun===
{{zh-noun}}

# [[Voldemort]]

If "Noun" is correct, this RFV requests quotes matching Voldemort#Noun: "An evil, harmful, or widely feared person or thing."

If "Noun" is a mistake for "Proper noun", see WT:FICTION.

—Fish bowl (talk) 22:55, 25 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

佛地魔[edit]

Another entry. —Fish bowl (talk) 23:14, 28 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

氣水[edit]

Chinese.

# {{l|en|carbonated}} {{l|en|beverage}}
## {{l|en|soda water}}, {{l|en|club soda}}, {{l|en|sparkling water}}
## {{l|en|soft drink}}, {{l|en|soda pop}}, {{l|en|pop}}, {{l|en|soda}}
## {{l|en|cola}}

A mistake for 汽水? —Fish bowl (talk) 22:58, 25 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Delete. This a mistake. ---> Tooironic (talk) 00:03, 10 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Keep I see this as very prevalent on the Internet, so I think it's a valid entry per Wiktionary:Misspellings. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 21:24, 11 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Tooironic, King of Hearts: This is a RFV, not RFD. Delete/Keep do not apply here, as we need verification with actual citations. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 18:37, 2 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

肥仔快樂水[edit]

# {{lb|zh|slang}} {{w|lang=en|Coca-Cola}} {{gloss|{{l|en|[[cola]] [[soda]] [[pop]] soft [[drink]] [[beverage]]}} }}
# {{lb|zh|by extension}} Any {{l|en|soda pop}} {{l|en|soft drink}} beverage

according to news "articles", this is the original form of 肥宅快樂水 —Fish bowl (talk) 22:47, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No hits on Google Books or Duxiu. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 02:47, 2 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RFV failed for 肥仔快樂水. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 02:56, 4 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

March 2023[edit]

agger[edit]

Chinese. The only quote given is in a fully English context, which makes it seem like it's English rather than Cantonese. Is this used in (predominantly) Cantonese contexts? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 05:51, 1 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Cited using non-durably archived sources. This would require 2 weeks of discussion. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 19:02, 11 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Google Books says it's used in page 277, but I can't see the preview. It would be cited if we manage to see the original. (it's an ebook but still helps anyways) – Wpi31 (talk) 19:13, 11 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Wpi31: Yeah, I also found that. I suspect it might be on the next page, which isn't available to me in the preview unfortunately. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 20:03, 11 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Try this. You can't go to the page, but searching within the text from preview brings up (at least for me) a snippet with the paragraph that contains the word. You may get better results if you change ".com" to whatever your country's domain suffix is (e.g. Hong Kong would use ".com.hk"). Chuck Entz (talk) 04:12, 12 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I've already tried that (and also changing the domain to others, including .com, .co.uk, .co.jp, .fr, .es, .de), but none of them work. The paragraph from the preview should be good enough, but we (at least I) want to be extra sure to avoid scannos, and to understand the context which is chopped off at the start of the sentence. – Wpi31 (talk) 05:05, 12 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Regardless of the quote from Google Books, I think the quotes are accepted. In particular, the final one (HKET TOPick) is an online tabloid, so it is somewhat representative and arguably durably archived. – Wpi31 (talk) 05:10, 12 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

影帝[edit]

This entry, or one or more of its senses, has been nominated as derogatory pursuant to WT:DEROGATORY. It may be speedily deleted if it does not have at least three quotations meeting the attestation requirements within two weeks of the nomination date, that is, by 14 March 2023.

Chinese. Rfv-sense: "(slang, derogatory, sarcastic) a man skillful at deception via acting, usually for cheating or swindling" and "(slang, sarcastic, derogatory) Wen Jiabao". — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 21:04, 1 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Pinging @Mahogany115 for the Wen Jiabao sense. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 00:42, 2 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This term has been already popular among the dissident community. If you search on Pincong or LIHKG you will see. Mahogany115 (talk) 05:21, 2 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Mahogany115: Please help to provide quotes per WT:ATTEST. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 05:37, 2 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Added two cites for the Wen Jiabao sense to Citations:影帝. There is a considerable number of usage on Google Books, but they are all from the same publisher (明鏡), sometimes even in the exact same wording, which may not constitute as an independent source, so I've only added one instance of those. There is also a few usage in the online news media, notably the Chinese version of New York Times (which I've already added), RFI (a radio station, so I don't think it's printed?), and a few Falun Gong-related media. – Wpi31 (talk) 06:30, 2 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Wpi31: Thanks for adding those. I think those seem a little mention-y, though. I've added something that is more of a usage. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 06:57, 2 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Kawanakajima shōgi[edit]

Discussion moved from Wiktionary:Requests for deletion/CJK.

川中島将棋 (redlink) appears to be rather niche, with one Google Scholar hit, two Google Books hits, and 36 Google hits under default settings.

Template:table:Kawanakajima shogi pieces and senses at 軍曹 士官 砲兵 近衛 将軍 騎兵[edit]

Japanese.

川中島[edit]

Chinese.

# [[Kawanakajima]]

====Derived terms====
{{zh-der|川中島將棋}}

where 川中島將棋 is a redlink.

—Fish bowl (talk) 22:50, 16 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Fish bowl: These seem like RFV issues. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 04:02, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

OK; moved. —Fish bowl (talk) 01:56, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

神デレ[edit]

Japanese. At google:"神デレ" the first result is Wiktionary, the only other relevant result is F*ndom (yikes), and the rest is some (presumably) proper noun related to a single product. @Immanuelle

—Fish bowl (talk) 01:59, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This search seems to weed out a lot of specific cruft: google:"神デレ" -wiki -wikt -kamikaze -wax -"character" -"god" -tumblr -twitter. A lot of this appears to be manga and anime, an area of Japanese that I actually never really got into.

I note also that google books:"神デレ" finds nothing at all. Using hiragana for google books:"神でれ" does generate hits, but none for this noun sense -- the でれ (dere) in these hits appears to be a verb stem, and the 神 appears to be the latter element of a compound. Not promising for WT:CFI. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 22:05, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

サイオン[edit]

Japanese.

# a [[scion]]

An entry by Special:Contributions/2601:601:4002:E260:7999:F752:5C3C:7DAD, same as Talk:時計工事.

—Fish bowl (talk) 02:17, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I see it used as a name (サイオン社, a computer maker; サイオン・キャピタルLLC, an investment firm; a baseball player named 小林サイオン; and most common by far the Scion (automobile) brand), but not as a person's descendant nor part of a plant. Cnilep (talk) 07:07, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

石持[edit]

Japanese. Rfv-sense: 石持ち, 石首魚, 石頭魚: any cardinalfish in the Apogonidae family

Kokugo Daijiten defines 石持/石首魚/いしもち as a synonym of either 白口(しろぐち) (shiroguchi, “silver croaker”) or 鰍(かじか) (kajika, “sculpin”), but doesn't include Apogonidae. (KDJ also includes two other definitions, which I added to 石持.) Japanese Wikipedia suggests that Apogonidae is テンジクダイ科 (tenjikudai-ka); KDJ doesn't include テンジクダイ科 but defines 天竺鯛(てんじくだい) (tenjikudai) as Apogon lineatus. A disambiguation page at イシモチ, however, points to シログチ and テンジクダイ (the species A. lineatus). There is a great deal of regional variation in the names of fishes, so it is entirely likely that some speakers call cardinalfish 石持. I just haven't found any quotes yet.

This quote, from a fishing blog, seems to suggest that イシモチ is distinct from テンジクダイ科, though I'm not sure I understand it correctly.

2023 March 22 (last accessed) “イシモチ【石持】”, in Bosobakucho‎^[15]:

実際(じっさい)にイシモチという名(めい)の付(つ)く魚(さかな)としては、シログチなどと同様(どうよう)に耳石(じせき)を持(も)つ「オオスジイシモチ」や「テッポウイシモチ」などがいる。いずれも、シログチなどとは全然似(ぜんぜんに)ておらず、むしろ、同(おな)じテンジクダイ科(か)のネンブツダイと混同(こんどう)しやすい。
Jissai ni ishimochi to iu mei no tsuku sakana to shite wa, shiroguchi nado to dōyō ni jiseki o motsu “ōsujīshimochi” ya “teppōishimochi” nado ga iru. Izuremo, shiroguchi nado to wa zenzen nite-orazu, mushiro, onaji tenjikudai-ka no nenbutsudai to kondō shi yasui.
Fish that are de facto called ishimochi, the oosuji ishimochi or teppou ishimochi, have otoliths like the shiroguchi does. But neither of these resembles the shiroguchi and its ilk, rather resembling another member of the tenjikudai family, the nenbutsudai, with which they are easily confused.

By the way and for what it's worth, while I was searching I happened to notice that while 石頭魚 is a redlink on Japanese Wikipedia, it redirects to 日本鬼鮋 on Chinese Wikipedia. That is a type of scorpion fish; it cross-wikis to オニオコゼ on ja-wikipedia. Both 石持 and 石首魚 redirect to シログチ there. Cnilep (talk) 03:34, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

充牣[edit]

Japanese.

User:馬太阿房 noted this as Gikun for 満(み)つ (mitsu) in the Meiji Bible, but couldn't find other Japanese usage. I can't find it in archives of Asahi Shimbun (from 1879) or Yomiuri Shimbun (from 1876), and Google Books snippets seem like probably scannos. NKD lists it as じゅう‐じん, with a note, "「仞」はみちる意" (仞/牣 means みちる "to be filled"). The site furigana.info also says the reading is じゅうじん.

I briefly changed the POS from noun to verb-suru, since the gloss suggests an accomplishment, but the one usage I found thanks to NKD (from 1869) doesn't include する, so I changed it back. Cnilep (talk) 02:43, 28 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(furigana.info also includes book extracts from Aozora Bunko, and they have two uses of 充牣する by 夏目漱石. —Fish bowl (talk) 23:43, 30 March 2023 (UTC))Reply[reply]

https://lab.ndl.go.jp/dl/book/770526?keyword=充牣&page=6 has 充牣 in some list probably for learning 漢語, annotated simultaneously as ジウジン and ミツ. —Fish bowl (talk) 23:43, 30 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

天龍人[edit]

Chinese. “(Mainland China, Internet slang, ironic) one who resides in Beijing; high-class Beijing residents” and “ (Hong Kong, Internet slang, ironic) mainlander; person from mainland China” Mahogany115 (talk) 11:38, 31 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Fish bowl, Wpi31 — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 21:37, 29 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

April 2023[edit]

フランベルジェ[edit]

Japanese. No Google Scholar hits, no (meaningful) Google Books hits^{[note 1]}, no Kotobank hits……: just lots and lots of video games. Is that acceptable? —Fish bowl (talk) 23:46, 2 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

^ 3 shitty word list epubs and 2 usages as a surname? 文學界, Volume 10 朝日新聞縮刷版

In addition, note that the title is フランベルジェ (furanberuje) and not フランベルジュ (furanberuju). —Fish bowl (talk) 23:05, 8 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

レーストラック[edit]

Japanese.

I can only find a few newspaper articles about the US military's position on "レーストラック方式", which I gather is a (calque of an English) term for some kind flight path for airplanes? Granted, such mentions go back to the 1970s, but they do not seem to refer to any actual racetracks. e.g. Yomiuri Shimbun, 2011:

米国防総省(べいこくぼうそうしょう)が６月(ろくがつ)に新型垂直離着陸輸送機(しんがたすいちょくりちゃくりくゆそうき)「ＭＶ２２オスプレイ」の配備(はいび)を決(き)めたことを受(う)け、対象航空機(たいしょうこうくうき)をＣＨ４６中型輸送(ＣＨ４６ちゅうがたゆそう)ヘリからＭＶ２２オスプレイに、飛行経路(ひこうけいろ)は台形(だいけい)から陸上競技場型(りくじょうきょうぎじょうかた)（レーストラック型(かた)）に変更(へんこう)。
Beikoku Bōsōshō ga rokugatsu ni shingata suichoku richakuriku yusōki “MV22 Osupurei” no haibi o kimeta koto o uke, taishō kōkūki o CH46 chūgata yusō heri kara MV22 Osupurei ni, hikō keiro wa daikei kara rikujō kyōgijō kata (rēsutorakku kata) ni henkō.
From June the US Department of Defense has decided to deploy new vertical take off and landing “MV22 Osprey”, switching from CH46 midsize transport helicopter to the MV22 Osprey, the flight path shifting from a trapezoid pattern to a athletic field pattern (racetrack pattern).

That is not at all what I would imagine from seeing レーストラック glossed as "racetrack". Cnilep (talk) 04:42, 6 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Note: entry by Special:Contributions/2601:601:4002:E260:7999:F752:5C3C:7DAD —Fish bowl (talk) 23:02, 8 April 2023 (UTC))Reply[reply]

One use in a song: UVERworld - ace of ace; but this being the predominant Google result for google:"レーストラックに" is a bad sign. —Fish bowl (talk) 23:04, 8 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

アマヌンシス[edit]

Japanese. amanuensis

The hits on GBooks seem to be from a series called 日本人語彙 – which appear to be lists of words to improve one's vocabulary. A search of DuckDuckGo returns w:ja:エジプト第26王朝 (which doesn't even contain the word, but the English word does look sort of Egyptian) and a stackexchange question, "What is the Japanese word for amanuensis?" (suggested answers: 筆記者(ひっきしゃ) (hikkisha) and 書記(しょき) (shoki)) Cnilep (talk) 21:34, 8 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Note: entry by Special:Contributions/2601:601:4002:E260:7999:F752:5C3C:7DAD —Fish bowl (talk) 23:02, 8 April 2023 (UTC))Reply[reply]

アマヌエンシス (amanuenshisu) instead has at lease one use:

語学の講師陣は四名で、その肩書きはアマヌエンシス(研究助手)、博士候補、修士候補であり

(言語, Volume 17, Issues 1-4 / 大修館書店, 1988) —Fish bowl (talk) 23:07, 8 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

卡因[edit]

Not a word in Chinese. ---> Tooironic (talk) 23:44, 14 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Tooironic: It could possibly be considered a suffix like English -caine, such as in 利多卡因 (lidocaine), 普魯卡因 (procaine)? Although it doesn't seem to be productive. @RcAlex36, any thoughts? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 01:21, 31 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

兜巴星[edit]

Chinese. Rfv-sense: "(Cantonese, humorous) Starbucks". google:"間兜巴星": there's two usages in Oriental Daily (both by the same author in the same year), but overall only 22 ghits counting repetitions. I believe that since the usages in Oriental Daily are in standard written Chinese, the LDL rule for Cantonese should not apply here even though this sense is labelled as Cantonese. – Wpi31 (talk) 15:39, 28 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

As a native speaker I sometimes hear this expression Mahogany115 (talk) 13:58, 29 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I would include this in LDL because it's regional Chinese (even if it's used in standard written Chinese in those regions). (I wonder if we should label it as Hong Kong rather than Cantonese.) I see some usage on forums. I'll try to pull some quotes. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 14:32, 29 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Wpi31 Citations:兜巴星. I think we can pull the "other online sources" clause here. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 16:50, 29 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Cited. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 15:41, 18 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RFV passed. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 01:22, 31 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

May 2023[edit]

觱栗[edit]

Chinese. Rfv-sense: necromancer. Removed by @Vampyricon out of process. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 04:53, 8 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'm guessing this was intended to be the definition 宋時對道士的俗稱 in Hanyu Da Cidian? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 17:56, 11 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

蓄[edit]

Chinese. Rfv-sense: "to raise; to rear (domestic animals)" and "storage; savings". Tagged by @Tooironic but not listed here. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 12:54, 8 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

As "to raise": 蓄牧 which is usually written as 畜牧 (xùmù); 蓄奴州 (“slave states”)
As "savings": 儲蓄／储蓄 (chǔxù), 積蓄／积蓄 (jīxù)

内存溢出的猫 (talk) 11:25, 23 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

呈[edit]

Chinese. Rfv-sense: "flat". Tagged by @Tooironic. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 12:55, 8 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The "flat" sense appears to be a Shuowen hapax. RcAlex36 (talk) 07:08, 21 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

獲[edit]

Chinese. Rfv-sense: "to harvest". Tagged by @Tooironic. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 12:56, 8 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

崖[edit]

Chinese. Rfv-sense: "precipitous". Tagged by @Tooironic. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 12:57, 8 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

博歌樂[edit]

Chinese. WT:BRAND -- this is unlike VOCALOID#Japanese, which has definitely permeated popular culture. —Fish bowl (talk) 22:55, 10 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

休憩[edit]

Chinese. Rfv-sense: (Taiwan) to get a hotel room for sex. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 16:02, 11 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

長洲賓客人數多——多數人客賓洲長[edit]

Chinese. Moved from RFD. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 20:49, 12 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This will need to have usage that means something beyond "hey look, this is a [sexual] palindrome!". Chuck Entz (talk) 21:21, 12 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

終身監禁，分期執行[edit]

Chinese. Rfv-sense: (Hong Kong) a person that continuously go back and forth to prison RcAlex36 (talk) 09:09, 20 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

通訊錄[edit]

Chinese. Rfv-sense: (Mainland China, slang) homosexuality. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 16:20, 20 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

通訊錄／通讯录 (tōngxùnlù) has the same initials with 同性戀／同性恋 (tóngxìngliàn). This sense is widely used on Mainland China's social media, partly because of censorship. Popular collocations are 男通讯录 (“gay”), 女通讯录 (“lesbian”), etc. I suggest moving this sense to a new etymology chapter as it has nothing to do with the original meaning, 内存溢出的猫 (talk) 11:18, 23 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@内存溢出的猫: Thanks. I've added some quotes in Citations:通訊錄. Since none of them are durably archived, we would need discussion for two weeks. And since the quotes seem to only show usage referring to homosexual people, I've modified the definition as such. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 02:18, 31 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

優[edit]

Chinese. Rfv-sense: (Cantonese) to pull up (pants or socks). Removed by @Wpi out of process. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 21:39, 20 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This sense exists; both it and 優 are pronounced as jau1, but they should be unrelated otherwise. It should be cognate to 抽 (cau¹), cf 撐 (caang3) vs 𨅝 (jaang3), 踩 (caai²) vs 踹 (jaai2).

Ideally we would put this sense on 抽 under a separate etymology, but it appears to me that 休 is a more common form than both 抽 or 優. In any case, it should be a placed under an etymology separate from the main one on any of these three characters. – Wpi (talk) 08:26, 22 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Wpi: 優 is given in 廣州話方言詞典 and 廣州話普通話詞典. 廣州方言詞典 writes it as 摳. Words.hk has 抽, 摳, 拞 and 揄. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 18:17, 22 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

為国[edit]

Japanese.

===Noun===
{{ja-noun|いこく}}

# to [[govern]] the [[country]]

Setting aside "Noun" which seems to be a typo, I can only see usage of "為国" (為国(ためくに)?) as a personal name.

為国(いこく) appears in Kotobank, but as a part of a 漢文 dictionary.

—Fish bowl (

[1] 3 shitty word list epubs and 2 usages as a surname? 文學界, Volume 10 朝日新聞縮刷版

[note 1]

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中共肺炎#Chinese, #Japanese[edit]

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Template:table:Kawanakajima shogi pieces and senses at 軍曹士官砲兵近衛将軍騎兵[edit]