Wiktionary:Requests for deletion/Others

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Wiktionary > Requests > Requests for deletion/Others

Wiktionary Request pages (edit) see also: discussions
Requests for cleanup
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Cleanup requests, questions and discussions.

Requests for verification
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Requests for verification in the form of durably-archived attestations conveying the meaning of the term in question.

Requests for deletion
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Requests for deletion of pages in the main namespace due to policy violations; also for undeletion requests.

Requests for deletion/Others
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Requests for deletion of pages in other (not the main) namespaces, such as categories, appendices and templates.

Requests for moves, mergers and splits
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Moves, mergers and splits; requests listings, questions and discussions.

{{rfc-case}} - {{rfc-trans}} - {{rfdate}} - {{rfd-redundant}} - {{rfdef}} - {{rfe}} - {{rfex}} - {{rfap}} - {{rfp}} - {{rfphoto}} -

All Wiktionary: namespace discussions 1 2 3 4 5 - All discussion pages 1 2 3 4 5
This page is for the nomination (for deletion) of non-main namespace entries. General questions about categories, templates and the like should be posted at Wiktionary:Grease pit. Remember to start each section with only the wikified title of the page being nominated for deletion.
Oldest tagged RFDOs


March 2014[edit]

Template:en-ing form of[edit]

Delete this template. It purports to treat verb and noun behaviors of the likes of ploughing (see also Talk:ploughing) under one definition line, which would probably be placed under Verb heading. --Dan Polansky (talk) 20:43, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

It is, for now, a simple demonstration of an alternative presentation, used to illustrate a discussion of WT:RFD#waxing. Though deleted from waxing, it is still available for its intended use in the discussion in the former version and should remain at until the later of termination of that discussion and a successful RfDO.
Keep. DCDuring TALK 20:55, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
You can use your user page for demonstration purposes. To demonstrate a proposed format of certain kind of entries, there was absolutely no need to create a template and place it to a discussed entry. Alternatively, you could have placed a demonstration of proposed formatting directly into the discussion, a thing very easy and straightforward to do. You can still do it. This template is unneeded and should be deleted. --Dan Polansky (talk) 08:38, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
All the pages linked here have been changed, so it's useless as it is. --Stubborn Pen (talk) 17:09, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
Any reason to keep this DCDuring? Or is it just voting? Renard Migrant (talk) 18:18, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
{{gerund of}} isn't an English-only template, where {{en-ing form of}} has an inherent language in it. Renard Migrant (talk) 18:18, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
So? That means that gerund is more general, and therefore, of gerund and -ing, should be the one that is kept. Purplebackpack89 20:16, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
A redirect won't technically work as one requires lang=en and the other doesn't. Basically, the way to bypass this problem is deletion. Renard Migrant (talk) 00:12, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
Seems like it wouldn't be too much work for a bot to add a lang=en while it's changing all the -ings to gerunds. Purplebackpack89 17:33, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
But the templates have different functions; it would be like redirecting {{plural of}} to {{form of}} and expecting nothing to break. Renard Migrant (talk) 16:40, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
The point is that we shouldn't be reinforcing the pointless distinction in English between the form of a participle and that of a gerund, those being identical in every case in English. Such forms take on predictable transformed meanings in generic noun, adjective, and verb (progressive) use. We have — and use — distinct PoS headers for any non-generic, less predictable meanings. DCDuring TALK 18:23, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
  • Keep and use for all English -ing forms. The current state of the page ploughing is incomplete since it mentions only the present participle and does not mention the gerund. These are two very different forms and it's pure coincidence that they happen to have the same superficial form in English. Nevertheless, since, they do, I can see that it's tidier to mention both forms on a single line ("present participle and gerund of") rather than two separate lines ("1. present participle of"<br/>"2. gerund of"). —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 22:02, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
    I'd say it needs a vote. DCDuring TALK 23:44, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
  • Delete. The present participle and gerund aren't 'superficially the same' in English, they are identical. The fact that they aren't in other languages has literally zero to do with English. Renard Migrant (talk) 00:12, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
    They are identical in form; they are not identical in function. There is no participle in the sentence "Ploughing rocky soil is difficult." —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 06:33, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
  • Interesting point. I don't like the distinction much. Another thing, is a gerund a verb form? Because if it isn't then we need separate templates to go under the noun and verb headings. Or even the verb and gerund headings. Renard Migrant (talk) 16:39, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
    Yes, I think the gerund can be considered a verb form. A noun couldn't stand in the empty slot of "_______ rocky soil is difficult". —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 20:41, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

April 2014[edit]

Category:English noun forms[edit]

I removed all the non-English ones (mostly Volapük) and then moved all the English plurals to Category:English plurals and lo and behold it's empty. I think it was once a parent category for Category:English plurals but now it isn't. So delete, or keep as a parent category only and create a {{parent category}} template. Renard Migrant (talk) 19:03, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

I proposed some time ago that Category:English plurals should be moved to Category:English noun plural forms. We don't need two different categories for noun plurals, after all. Are there any other noun forms in English, perhaps archaic case forms that are no longer in use? —CodeCat 19:07, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
The only other form is the possessive, which is now more of a morpheme than a case. --WikiTiki89 19:09, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
But is it possible that we can cite other noun forms in old texts, like Shakespeare for example? —CodeCat 19:14, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
No, because they disappeared phonologically. The last remnants were the presence or lack of a final schwa and by Shakespeare's time it was already entirely silent. --WikiTiki89 19:20, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
Well in any case, I still think this should be kept as a parent category for Category:English noun plural forms. Or we could place the plurals straight in Category:English noun forms, if those are the only noun forms that exist anyway. —CodeCat 20:20, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
Category:English noun plural forms wasn't a very popular idea, pure and simple. Nor was moving Category:English plurals to Category:English noun forms. I doubt the consensus has changed, but feel free to give it a go. Renard Migrant (talk) 20:44, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
Convert to {{parent-only}}. Renard Migrant (talk) 12:49, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
With changes to the overall category structure, I consider this debate obsolete and should be closed with no further actions taken. Renard Migrant (talk) 22:26, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Category:WC and its language subcategories[edit]

We already have Wikisaurus:toilet with just about the same content. Anything in it can also either go in the parent category Category:Rooms or the subcategory Category:Toiletry. --WikiTiki89 23:23, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

I agree. —CodeCat 23:44, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

May 2014[edit]

Template:definite and plural of[edit]

This was just created. But given the wild growth of form-of templates for any random combination of inflections that we had in the past, I'm very reluctant to keep this template. —CodeCat 21:10, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Probably means definite singular and plural form of [adjective], if it's used for Danish or Norwegian. I usually list them separately, on two lines. Donnanz (talk) 21:41, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
The wording used is far too vague anyway. Donnanz (talk) 09:39, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
  • Delete. Put it on two lines. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 13:27, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
  • Keep: If it can be used in multiple places, best to have it Purplebackpack89 (Notes Taken) (Locker) 15:46, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
    @Purplebackpack89 Care to clarify? Why should the template be used instead of what is currently being done at engelske? --Dan Polansky (talk) 16:04, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
    Conversely, why doesn't engelske consolidate things into a single definition? And why can't users have the option of choosing between multiple templates? And why are we so quick to delete templates that being are used? Purplebackpack89 (Notes Taken) (Locker) 17:51, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
    Because usage alone doesn't determine how desirable a template is. —CodeCat 18:09, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
Delete per Angr. - -sche (discuss) 17:21, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
Keep. This is very important for the Danish language. If you delete it, all my work on this adjective form will be deleted. Are you guys kidding me? Ready Steady Yeti (talk) 16:17, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
Delete and put on two lines. Two different definitions, two lines. Renard Migrant (talk) 16:21, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
@Ready Steady Yeti no need to 'delete' anything, just modify by bot and put onto two lines. This is a wiki; everything is constantly being reviewed! Renard Migrant (talk) 16:22, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
Do NOT delete. I know there is already a way to say "definite and plural of" with another template but trust me, it's much more complicated, and I need that template, so don't delete TEMPLATES, why would you delete useful templates? Keeping this template will help the project in the Danish language field. If you still think this should be deleted then how should I make an alternative, because there was no other way to do this before, and there are thousands of Danish adjectives that have no definite and plural form entries, but are still listed on their head templates. Please do not delete, either that or make another easy alternative.
I understand everything is constantly being reviewed. But this must not be deleted. Every Danish adjective form has a definite and plural form so it would be useless to make two separate lines. Ready Steady Yeti (talk) 16:28, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
And how often do they coincide? Is it on the order of magnitude of English "-ed" forms (where passive participle coincides with past tense)? Keφr 16:32, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
I think you're spot on when you say "I need that template". You're thinking about what's best for you, not what's best for the wiki. Renard Migrant (talk) 16:39, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
And even for English, the template is language-specific: {{en-past of}}. —CodeCat 17:05, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
You realise of course that this argument can be turned on you by suggesting a rename of the nominated template to {{da-definite and plural of}}. Keφr 17:13, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
Yes, and I would be ok with that, although in that case the wording still isn't ideal, because it still underspecifies what is meant. —CodeCat 17:21, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
As I said above, the wording is far too vague. If this template were to be kept, it should read "definite singular and plural form of". The same applies in Norwegian and maybe Swedish, but I always split it in Norwegian into two lines, and will probably continue to do so in Danish. I suspect a short cut is being looked for here. Donnanz (talk) 17:32, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
Is the plural also definite, or only the singular? —CodeCat 17:41, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
The plural form can be either definite or indefinite. The spelling varies when used in singular form, depending on the gender of the noun the adjective is used with, or whether it's used in definite form. The definite singular and plural form always have the same spelling, with very few exceptions. But there are also indeclinable adjectives, which don't vary in spelling, no matter what. They're the easiest ones to deal with. Donnanz (talk) 18:17, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
I'm sorry I'm a very wrong human being that should never have existed. I'm extremely abnormal.

Anyhow, I think Template:da-definite and plural of is acceptable. I do want what is best for the wiki. That's why I'm here. Sorry, sometimes I get hyper like this. I'm pretty sure that all Danish adjectives that have one form with the suffix -e (which most do), they all are definite and plural so my argument is there's no point in making two separate lines.

I really was planning to apply for sysop privileges here in like 3 or 4 years but it doesn't look like I'm at a good start right now. I hope I can get better at this. I really, I promise, I want to help this website change the world of words and language. You can quote me on that. Ready Steady Yeti (talk) 22:47, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

July 2014[edit]

Category:Dragons and Category:Merpeople and their subcategories[edit]

These are way too specific. Category:Mythological creatures is enough. --WikiTiki89 16:03, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

There's 12 entries in Category:en:Dragons and 23 in Category:en:Merpeople. The first is maybe questionable, but I don't see any need to merge a category with 23 entries into a larger category.--Prosfilaes (talk) 06:58, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
Note that 2 of the 12 Dragons are currently at RfD Purplebackpack89 18:19, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
I think that Category:English words prefixed with mer- is a better category for the merpeople. (I didn't even know it existed, and it turns out it has more entries than Category:en:Merpeople!) --WikiTiki89 11:54, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
I don't use the categories much, but I don't see the advantage in dumping 23 more entries into an already full Mythological creatures. Splitting out groups of 20 for subcategorization is usually a good thing in my experience from other Wikis.--Prosfilaes (talk) 19:51, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
I agree with the principle of splitting out scores of entries into subcategories, but perhaps a more general category for aquatic mythological creatures would be preferable, which could also encompass naiads and nixies and kelpies and kappas and so forth. ~ Röbin Liönheart (talk) 18:38, 3 January 2015 (UTC)



Previous discussion: Wiktionary:Grease pit/2014/July#Template:t-check and Template:t-needed. I am too lazy to link to the rest of the discussion, but you can follow the links.

The replacements for these templates are {{t-check}}, {{t+check}} and {{t-needed}}. {{trreq}} has been migrated already once, but I notice some people still using {{trreq}} as before, which makes me reconsider with my idea of moving {{t-needed}} back to {{trreq}} (with the new syntax).

I think there is a clear advantage to the replacements, and the proposal had quite wide support and no oppose. Can we get these formally deprecated, so to speak? Keφr 17:32, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

  • Redirect: Purplebackpack89 18:18, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Redirecting is just going to cause more breaking. People will expect the old template to work as it always did, which it doesn't of course. —CodeCat 00:51, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
    • Case in point. (Though there have been surprisingly few such mistakes, it seems.) Keφr 13:02, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
      • Changing my vote to keep, and restore Template:trreq Template trreq shouldn't have been deleted in the middle of the discussion. Purplebackpack89 14:55, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

{{trreq}} was deleted, since it was already orphaned, and no erroneous usage arised. (Feel free to recreate as a redirect.) Orphaning {{ttbc}} will take longer; xte can help with it. Keφr 17:45, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

  • Keep, and thereby make old revisions more legible. I don't object to deprecating the templates. --Dan Polansky (talk) 18:02, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
You could use that reason to keep anything that's ever had a link to it. I think it's a terrible idea. Renard Migrant (talk) 18:07, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
I could use that reason to keep any template that was ever very widely used. And that is a good reason. It helps keep old page revisions legible. Very widely used templates should be deprecated, not deleted. --Dan Polansky (talk) 09:38, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
Just noting that Template:ttbc is still used by ~1450 pages. - -sche (discuss) 01:05, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
Just noting that it is still used by 1292 pages. - -sche (discuss) 18:22, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

August 2014[edit]





Functionality of all of those has been integrated into Module:ugly hacks (formerly named Module:template utilities; please take care of that one too). Which was named so because this is not the type of functionality that we want to encourage to be used in templates. That module also has the advantage that it tracks templates into which it is transcluded; they should show up at Special:WantedTemplates soon.

No single replacement for these, unfortunately. Most users of {{isValidPageName}} should be probably adjusted to use a template like {{l}}, {{l-self}}, {{m}} or {{head}}. Other templates may need to be entirely converted to Lua. For yet others, a new framework or at least one special-purpose module will probably need to be devised (reference templates?).

Keφr 15:07, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

  • Keep per "No single replacement for these" Purplebackpack89 17:10, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
    Delete. @Purplebackpack89 I think you misunderstood. There is "no single replacement" for the ugly hacks module, but the nominated templates have already been replaced by the ugly hacks module. --WikiTiki89 17:23, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
    No, @Wikitiki89, I understood that. I've come to the position that it's a bad idea to outright delete templates, as it confuses editors who don't follow RFD/O too much. Purplebackpack89 18:57, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
    The argument you gave in you first post contradicts that, but at least now you made a reasonable one. I still disagree because these templates are only used by expert template programmers, who will have no trouble adapting. These are not the kind of templates like {{head}} or {{context}} that everyone uses all the time. --WikiTiki89 23:18, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Delete, no reason to keep if they're orphaned and not needed. —CodeCat 17:17, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Template:isValidPageName is a very useful template to use when authoring other templates, and not everyone who will want to author a template knows Lua. If we delete template:isValidPageName, I very strongly recommend that (a) the deletion summary indicates what can be used instead (viz module:ugly hacks) and (b) module:ugly hacks have good documentation on how to use its functions in templates. (No comment/vote on the proposed deletions.)​—msh210 (talk) 06:16, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Keep all. If you want people to stop using them, edit their documentation to point to an alternative way of achieving what they were intended to achieve. --Dan Polansky (talk) 13:43, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Category:Caucasian languages[edit]

Also included: the family code "cau" and all the categories that use it. This survived deletion back in 2009, but, even after reading through the discussion archived at Category talk:Caucasian languages, I'm not sure why.

This is strictly a geographical grouping: although many linguists have an unprovable hunch that the w:Northeast Caucasian languages and the w:Northwest Caucasian languages may be related, there's been very little support for linking them to the w:Kartvelian languages. Indeed, even among those proposing that the w:North Caucasian languages are related to everything from Basque to Sino-Tibetan to the Na-Dene languages of North America, and those who say the Kartvelian languages are related to Indo-European, Afro-Asiatic Dravidian, and many others, linking North Caucasian and South Caucasian/Kartvelian is rarely even considered. If there were such a family, it would probably be named the w:Ibero-Caucasian languages.

This category is mostly a holding category for the three families mentioned, but, judging from the derivational categories, there are a dozen entries that refer to the Caucasian languages as a group in their etymologies, of which seven are Old Armenian. Perhaps we can get an idea from Vahagn Petrosyan (talkcontribs) about whether this is a serious obstacle. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:31, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Scholarly sources, modern or dated, dealing with Armenian linguistics often refer to "Caucasian languages", when they cannot distinguish between Kartvelian/East Caucasian/West Caucasian. The code cau is very convenient for such cases. However, I understand that our etymological categories are based on genetic relationship and that the laziness of sources does not justify having this category. I will go through the Old Armenian entries and try to assign them to different branches. So, delete. PS By the way, your ping did not work. --Vahag (talk) 15:38, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
Keep. There is no reason that we cannot have a category for languages that are often referred to as "Caucasian languages" outside of our etymological tree. --WikiTiki89 14:59, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Previously deleted entries[edit]

...and its A-Z subpages. These haven't been updated for years, and don't really hold any useful information: they are just links to past discussions, which could now be found on deleted entries' talk pages. Should we consider deleting these? Equinox 13:41, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Delete Wiktionary:Previously deleted entries, Wiktionary:Previously deleted entries/A and the other subpages. Note, however, that many of the discussions linked from there are not found on talk pages; e.g. macrocosmus has empty Talk:macrocosmus; curiously enough, macrocosmus is at Wiktionary:Requests for deletion/Archives/2007/03 anyway. If this gets deleted, remove a link to it from {{rfv-failed}}. --Dan Polansky (talk) 07:10, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
I see no harm in keeping it until everything from it is moved to talk pages. Though of course it should be eventually deleted. Renard Migrant (talk) 11:37, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
@Renard Migrant The harm is in increasing the entropy of the web site for very little benefit. For instance, {{rfv-failed}} currently links the reader to Wiktionary:Previously deleted entries as if this page were of any import. Having very old discussions on talk pages is inessential since they can be found in RFV and RFD page histories by looking by the date of deletion. In case of doubt, a deleted page can be restored and sent to RFD anew. Originally, I hesitated to support, but I now see immediate deletion as the best course of action. I do not think it worthwhile to wait until someone spends their resources (time, attention) to ensure that all discussions linked from Wiktionary:Previously deleted entries are copied to talk pages. --Dan Polansky (talk) 12:36, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
This seems a lot like deleting the record of judicial decisions. In a common-law country such decisions certainly reflect efforts to interpret and apply laws and principles to situations not contemplated when the principles and laws are articulated and passed. Our decision-making is similar. Erasing convenient history seems to me to be a mistake, making investigation of our decision-making limited to those who can manipulate the edit history in XML dumps. I am aware of no such efforts. As it is, there is no effort to record speedy deletions and no ready means of accessing whatever record the wiki software retains.
More desirable would be a more systematic record of ALL deleted terms, at least via the RfD process, and a link to the current location of the discussion. Even better would be to make sure that there was a copy of the discussion in the talk page corresponding to the entry or definition deleted.
Accordingly, Keep until a more effective means of accessing such decisions and their rationale is implemented. DCDuring TALK 15:08, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
I don't understand much of what you are saying. A systematic list of all terms deleted via RFD and archived using the method currently in place (placing dicussions on talk pages) can be found by looking at Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:rfd-failed (2536 pages per AWB) and Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:rfd-passed (1892 pages per AWB); ditto for RFV. This gives you an extensive history of discussions of past deletions. They are searchable using Goggle; Wiktionary:Previously deleted entries/A does not give you the text of the discussion, so it does not help searchability. As for terms deleted and not so archived, one only has to take the year and the month of the deletion, and then search in history, using the online wiki functions, no dump processing. Moreover, multiple of these links in Wiktionary:Previously deleted entries/A are broken anyway; e.g. for "adipoli" or Ábraham (never deleted). --Dan Polansky (talk) 15:51, 27 September 2014 (UTC) I have striken my comment that is worthless. --Dan Polansky (talk) 16:14, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
At best the coverage of 'what links here' pages covers only a period for which the templates have been applied. It is likely to fall short of complete coverage even during that period due to imperfect implementation. It would not be a surprise to me if someone decided to replace these templates or change or dispense with the archiving process, further fragmenting our readily accessible historical record. I'd favor someone mining these pages to more appropriately archive the discussions of the included deleted items before the pages are deleted. If someone can do so more effectively by instead mining the XML edit history, they should do so.
I suppose it is possible, even likely, that we won't ever have the resources to actually be systematic about much of anything, let alone making sense of our actual practice in deciding to keep or delete entries and definitions. Making some of the history less available doesn't really matter if such history isn't going to be looked at. I have some hope that we will have the resources to do so and would like to preserve anything that might help. DCDuring TALK 17:05, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
Keep (roughly per DCDuring). Many of the discussions linked to from the nominated pages are only in old revisions of pages (the links on the nominated pages are to oldids). There is no other way to access those.​—msh210 (talk) 19:50, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

September 2014[edit]

Template:Unicode:Hindu-Arabic script[edit]

Template:Unicode:Katakana script[edit]

These are used on only one appendix page. Can they be substituted and then deleted? —CodeCat 01:01, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Delete --Daniel Carrero (talk) 07:36, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Category:English words prefixed with Palestino-[edit]

I mean, really? Is this productive at all? Highly doubt it. {{affix|en|Palestine|-o-}} would work better for these three words. Keφr 14:08, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Palestino- is used as a nationality prefix like Sino-, Italo-, etc. Words formed using these types of prefixes have been deleted in the past so I don’t know if a category for them can be expected to have entries. I agree that its current contents correspond to Palestine + -o-. — Ungoliant (falai) 14:39, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
I don't think the pronunciation is the same as just Palestine + -o-, is it? —CodeCat 16:21, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
Palestine: /-aɪn/. Palestino-: /-iːn-/. --WikiTiki89 22:37, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
Then these must be separate terms, as there's no regular rule in English that would account for the change in pronunciation. —CodeCat 22:39, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
Is Palestino- pronounced /-iːn-/, though? It seems counter-intuitive that it would be, at least to me, given that Sino- is /-aɪn-/. - -sche (discuss) 02:44, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
I would want to pronounce it /-iːn-/, but I've never heard it. Does anyone have any YouTubes with this? DCDuring TALK 04:24, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
The difference in pronunciation seems quite natural to me: the "in" in Sino- is the only syllable in the affix aside from the connecting vowel, the "in" in Palestino- has two syllables in front of it. Look at the pronunciation of Palestine vs. Palestinian. There may also be some influence from foreign borrowings such as Filipino. Chuck Entz (talk) 04:41, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Category:English phrasal verbs with particle (rid)[edit]

Whether or not we call get rid of/be rid of phrasal verbs, I don't see that rid is a w:Grammatical particle in the same way as down might be so considered in write down or sit down. Accordingly, I think the category should be removed. DCDuring TALK 00:49, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

January 2015[edit]

Index:English and subpages[edit]

Should we delete this, since it hasn't been updated since 2012, and Category:English lemmas (which is updated automatically with every new entry) seems to serve the same purpose? Equinox 19:35, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

We should keep it (and update it if possible). The index contains the PoS and audio links, plus you can jump closer to a certain word from the first page using the TOC. The lemma category can't do these. --Panda10 (talk) 19:48, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Appendix:Finnish numerals[edit]

A transwiki fork of wikipedia:Finnish numerals from about five years ago. Has not seen substantial edits since its creation (while its original has continued to evolve). Most functions of the page are moreover covered by Category:Finnish numerals and Appendix:Finnish numbers. --Tropylium (talk) 13:53, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Sure, I'll take your word for it that we don't need it. RFD failed. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 03:34, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Category:English vyadhikarana compounds[edit]

What on Earth is this supposed to be? (There are other similar weird categories by the same person) SemperBlotto (talk) 09:16, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

See Sanskrit compound for a very poorly written and hard-to-understand explanation of these terms. That article says "All these normal Tatpuruṣa compounds are called vyadhikarana Tatpuruṣa, because the case ending should depend upon the second member because semantically the second member has primacy, but actually the case ending depends upon the first member." However, since English doesn't have case endings I don't see how it can have vyadhikarana compounds. Delete. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 10:21, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
There are areas where traditional English grammatical vocabulary is deficient. Eg, does traditional English vocabulary have a term for those compound nouns that form plurals by pluralizing the first term of the compound, eg, attorney-general? CGEL (2001) uses dvandva in its discussion of nouns.
We have entries for some of these (tatpurusa, bahuvrihi), but not vyadhikarana.
Though I'd prefer a category name that was more readily understood, I'd like to see some effort to categorize English compounds along these lines. It might even help with some of our RfD discussion for open-spelled compounds. DCDuring TALK 12:58, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
If I've understood the WP page correctly (which may not be the case considering how confusingly it's written) vyadhikaranas are a kind of tatpurusha, so we could still categorize these words as Category:English tatpurusa compounds without making more detailed distinctions that may well be Sanskrit-specific. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 13:11, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
I don't see how any of the three entries in the category fit. They all pluralize based on the second element, don't they?—like regular nouns, and unlike Angr's description of vyadhikarana. Pinging User:DerekWinters to explain. - -sche (discuss) 19:44, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Likewise, the one entry in Category:French dvandva compounds is not a compound of two elements connected by an "and", it distinctly lacks an "and"/"et"... - -sche (discuss) 19:46, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
A dvandva is compound that could be connected by an and and thus its lack defines the compound. Aigre-doux is literally means 'both bitter and sweet' and could be written as aigre et doux. Its lack however here makes it a dvandva compound by becoming 'aigre-doux'. Vyadhikaranas are compounds that are not coordinative like dvandvas but indicate a different relationship between the two. Thus, a vyadhikarana like god-given indicates the phrase 'given by the gods', an instrumental relationship. Battlefield is a 'field for battle' or a 'field of battle', dative or genitive relationships respectively. DerekWinters (talk) 19:54, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Also, in vyadhikaranas, the second member has primacy, unlike avyayibhavas, and thus should be pluralized on such a basis. DerekWinters (talk) 19:56, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
The question remains whether the Sanskrit concepts are well-suited for application to English. "Dvandva" seems to be at least minimally accepted. Bahuvrihi) is sometimes deemed synonymous with exocentric. Insofar as the Sanskrit compound-noun terms depend on inflectional grammar rather than semantics, they are difficult to apply to English.
A more basic approach to English compounds of each PoS would analyze them by the word-class from which the components derive and which was the head, eg, back nine (ADJ-NOUN), back down (VERB-ADV). Some further categorization would be possible, including, for example, the nature of the case/prepositional semantic relationship between the components of endocentric noun-noun compounds. Eg, backrest (rest for the back), backseat (seat in the back), backstabber (one who stabs (in) the back [accusative]), backbone (bone of the back).
This leads me to conclude that English does not fit into the scheme that this category represents. I welcome any demonstration of its applicability and intelligibility to normal folks or acceptance by English grammarians. Delete DCDuring TALK 21:15, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Just because it may not be so applicable to English does not mean it wouldn't be applicable to many other languages. English is simply one of many. Also, Merriam Webster does have definitions of dvandva, bahuvrihi, tatpurusa, and karmadharaya. For example, their definition of karmadharaya is
A class of compound words typically having a noun as second constituent and a descriptive adjective as first constituent (as bluegrass, blackberry), a noun as second constituent and an attributive noun as first constituent (as houseboat), or an adjective as second constituent and an adverb as first constituent (as everlasting, widespread) and having meanings that follow the formula “a B that is A ” for nouns or “B in the manner expressed by A ” for adjectives, where A stands for the first constituent and B for the second; also : a compound word belonging to this class.
I'm also seeing quite a few non-Indic linguistics books employing terms like tatpurusa and bahuvrihi, for example: https://books.google.com/books?id=CerT4n6N26AC&dq=tatpurusa+oed&source=gbs_navlinks_s. Thus I'm inclined to believe that the terms have already been somewhat accepted into linguistics (my basis for adding them) and have true applicability in the linguistics of a variety of languages. DerekWinters (talk) 23:18, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
@DerekWinters: This particular RfD is only for Category:English vyadhikarana compounds. I have no opinion on the applicability of vyadhikarana to other languages, nor necessarily of the applicability of other Sanskrit-derived compound-describing terms to English. But we should definitely start with attested definitions of the terms before we use them in category names. DCDuring TALK 23:36, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Right; I'm not saying we should get rid of all Sanskrit-named compound types. Tatpurusha, dvandva, and bahuvrihi are all pretty well established terms in linguistics and are certainly applicable to many other languages than Sanskrit. But I'm not convinced that vyadhikarana is applicable to English, or that it's useful to use even if someone does manage to dig up an instance of it being used to describe English. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 00:12, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Oh, well if that's the case then I'm not sure what we should do. DerekWinters (talk) 16:04, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
For now, if I understand the situation correctly, you could recategorize the English nouns into Category:English tatpurusa compounds. You could also see whether vyadhikarana is attestable and, if it is, create the entry. If it is not, we could try to see if there is a term that is suitable for a name for the category. DCDuring TALK 21:41, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I didn't see any use of vyadhikarana applied to English at Google Books. DCDuring TALK 22:01, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Just one at Google Scholar. DCDuring TALK 22:40, 29 January 2015 (UTC)


This page was created on the basis of an entry in the Etymological Dictionary of the Slavic Languages, which in turn was created to be the etymology of Lower Sorbian bazowy ‎(pertaining to elder trees). Perhaps the authors of that dictionary are unaware that Proto-Slavic ъ can sometimes surface as a in Lower Sorbian, but it can, and the etymon of the word is actually *bъzovъ, which also has an entry in the same dictionary. Alternatively, bazowy may simply have been coined in Lower Sorbian as baz + -owy, but either way, it isn't from *bazovъ. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 15:21, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

In *bazъ and *bъzъ you can find Lower Sorbian baz. *bazъ: Lower Sorbian baz ‎(бузина Sambucus nigra); *bъzъ: Lower Sorbian dial. bez, baz. First entry also gives Russian dial. бас ‎(bas, бузина), Ukrainian dial. базни́к ‎(baznýk, сирень), базни́к ‎(baznýk, собачья бузина Sambucus ebulus L, сирень Syringa vulgaris). —Игорь Телкачь 16:27, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
I feel I would be more useful in interpreting this source if I could actually read any Slavic language. CodeCat? —JohnC5 05:07, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
I guess my preferred resolution would be to move this to Appendix:Proto-Slavic/bъzovъ, but I don't know whether Useigor would agree to that. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 10:11, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
I don't know Lower Sorbian but judging by Slavic cognates there could be *bezowy or *bzowy from *bъzovъ. The dictionary points to *bʰeh₂ǵos > *bazъ and *bʰu₂ǵos > *bъzъ. So *bazovъ could be an alternative etymology of Lower Sorbian bazowy. —Игорь Тълкачь (talk) 16:33, 26 January 2016 (UTC)


This template and all referenced ones below can probably be safely deleted since the logic has been moved to Module:pt-conj and Module:pt-headword.

Jberkel (talk) 00:04, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Support, but let’s not close this discussion too fast, in case we notice something wrong with the module. — Ungoliant (falai) 01:38, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Unit tests, people. Keφr 17:07, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I'll add some, but almost impossible to cover all possible cases / inflection types. On a second thought, generating test cases à la QuickCheck might help here. – Jberkel (talk) 18:41, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
OK, I've added unit tests for the new code. Don't forget to add a testcase if you find a bug in the module. – Jberkel (talk) 01:57, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
It's been over 6 months now. I think it's safe to delete the templates now. Jberkel (talk) 00:27, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

Category:IPA pronunciations with repetition[edit]

I don't see the point of this category. It's a subcat of Category:Pronunciation cleanup, but nothing needs cleaning up. There is nothing wrong with repeating a symbol in IPA transcription. Long vowels and geminate consonants can be transcribed either with the long mark (ː) or by doubling the symbol. Both methods are legitimate. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 17:44, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Delete While it contains a handful of legitimately bad entries (eg this and this) and slightly messy looking entries where syllable marking might be a good idea (this), the module that does this generates too much chaff to sort through. For instance, it tags deinen#German, because it reads nn̩ as nn̩, budget#Italian because it reads dd͡ʒ as dd͡ʒ and chū...khai-sí because it doesn't like the ellipsis*. There are also entries like fountain, Hermione and 雛祭り which are apparently only there because of the {{ of a nested template. It would be better if there were more specific categories for things that can only be errors (doubled stress markers or ties, tripled characters, etc). Smurrayinchester (talk) 15:34, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
(*) Incidentally, I note that whoever put this together was clever enough to recognise that tone markers can legitimately be doubled, so khai-sí isn't tagged. Smurrayinchester (talk) 15:34, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
Comment re "It would be better if there were more specific categories for things that can only be errors": or we could simply re-purpose this category. - -sche (discuss) 14:32, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

February 2015[edit]

Template:list:cardinals from zero to forty-nine/en[edit]

Not used. If we really want to make this kind of list it should have a different form (like Appendix or the like).--Dixtosa (talk) 18:52, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

{{list:ordinals_from_zeroth_to_forty-ninth/en}}--Dixtosa (talk) 18:54, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
Delete. Even supposing one would want this kind of brute-force method of showing variation in numeral formation, fifty is excessive. Almost all the languages I've studied show no difference in formation strategy between the thirties and fourties (or seventies, for that matter). In English, there's the archaic use of score, so that "two score and nine" is different from thirty-nine, but that's not included here.
I don't see the purpose of having links to fifty numbers in one language section- does anyone benefit from being able to click on forty-three in the sixteen entry? It seems more like a stunt than anything useful. I would add all the other subtemplates, too: only the Navajo, Telegu and Russian subtemplates are transcluded at all, and half of the Navajo links are redlinks.
List templates in general use a disproportionate amount of system resources for minimal benefits, but this bunch is particularly bad. Chuck Entz (talk) 19:42, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
No, they do not :?
Actually they save much space as you do not have to put the same list all over. This is why I am thinking of creating templates for each group related terms. At least for such long lists: #Related_terms, членство#Related_terms. --Dixtosa (talk) 20:30, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
Delete Replace with appendices, which have way more potential value, as they can readily accommodate language peculiarities, archaisms etc. DCDuring TALK 21:19, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

this one too--Dixtosa (talk) 21:21, 6 February 2015 (UTC)


Not used. Category:English leet is enough.

previous discussion --Dixtosa (talk) 22:22, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Delete I don't know what those terms have to do with slate blue. Seems to have been created by a new(?) user, possibly by mistake. Smurrayinchester (talk) 13:24, 13 February 2015 (UTC)


works exactly like head|ka|conjunction. --Dixtosa (talk) 16:43, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

  • Keep As I've said before, there's no point deleting these sorts of templates. They simply serve as redirects to reduce typing and make it easier for people to remember all the templates systematically . Smurrayinchester (talk) 20:13, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Delete. Having less of these templates makes it easier for people to remember all the templates. Right now, it's not obvious whether someone should be using {{ka-con}} or {{head|ka|conjunction}}. —CodeCat 20:23, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
    Yes. I think we should make a ruling that dedicated templates must only be created when they require more (or language-specific) features than {{head}}. But, yeah, it's too late xD--Dixtosa (talk) 20:47, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Delete per CodeCat. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:25, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

March 2015

Appendix:Indo-Aryan loanwords in Tamil[edit]

Crappy appendix with a misleading name. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 19:19, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

In principle this kind of information should be in Category:Tamil terms derived from Indo-Aryan languages on one hand (viz. individual etymologies), and perhaps w:History of the Tamil language (nonexistent, but see w:Tamil language#History) on the other (viz. details of sound substitutions and sound changes). This appendix seems to have much information that isn't currently in either, though, so I would first suggest (keep but) cleanup. Delete once fully obsoleted, perhaps. --Tropylium (talk) 12:35, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
Upon closer examination: delete. w:Indo-Aryan loanwords in Tamil indeed exists. --Tropylium (talk) 21:00, 25 April 2015 (UTC)


Excessive category granularity, IMHO. This category has 5 items, and is unlikely to get an interesting number of items. The parent Category:en:Diseases seems to have an okay granularity. --Dan Polansky (talk) 08:34, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

What is an interesting number? 10? 100? 1,000? Could you be more explicit about "okay granularity"? How would one tell whether it was okay with you? DCDuring TALK 12:44, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
I would favour keeping such a category. As w:Leprosy states, "[l]eprosy has affected humanity for thousands of years", with the first textual evidence of the disease dating back to the fourth or fifth millennium BC. Accordingly, it will have accumulated a lot of words in its semantic field (consider the obsolete mesel, for example), not to mention all the words for things involved in the disease's diagnosis, treatment, etc. You can confidently expect Category:en:Leprosy's granularity to improve considerably over time. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 13:47, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
Keep. There are some words in the semantic field of leprosy that don’t belong in Category:en:Diseases, like leper colony, leprosarium and Lazarus. — Ungoliant (falai) 14:07, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
So, do we need to add equivalent categories in other languages? So that words such as lazzaretto could be included in them? SemperBlotto (talk) 14:15, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
@SemperBlotto: I would say so. It's a simple matter of creating, for example, Category:it:Leprosy with the text {{topic cat|it|Leprosy}}. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 14:25, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
Keep. There are a number of leprosy-related terms in Category:en:Diseases, which is slightly crowded already at 265 entries, and there are quite a few entries in Category:en:Pathology (1463 entries) that belong in Category:en:Diseases, which would make that worse. Add to that the fact that topical categories tend to be under-used, in general, and I suspect that there could easily be a couple dozen in that category with a little work. Chuck Entz (talk) 15:18, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
Is "pathology" a topic or a discourse domain? I would have thought that we might need for some terms to be in both a discourse-domain category and one or more topical categories.
Don't leprosy and its synonyms belong in a disease category? Where does a causative agent for the disease go? Where would distinct symptoms and treatments go? Where does leper colony (See leper colony at OneLook Dictionary Search) go? DCDuring TALK 15:46, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

April 2015[edit]

Wikisaurus:moon of Uranus[edit]

Wikisaurus:moon of Haumea[edit]

Wikisaurus:moon of Jupiter[edit]

Wikisaurus:moon of Mars[edit]

Wikisaurus:moon of Saturn[edit]

Wikisaurus:moon of Neptune[edit]

Wikisaurus:moon of Pluto[edit]

None of these pages lists a single synonym! The content that they contain is already included both in the subcategories of Category:en:Moons (Category:en:Moons of Jupiter etc), which are easier to maintain, and in the list templates (template:list:moons of Haumea/en etc). These Wikisaurus pages all seem to be unused (not linked to from mainspace). Smurrayinchester (talk) 12:39, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

It does not matter that they do not list synonyms. Wikisaurus is about all semantic relations. E.g. Wikisaurus:bird is perfectly fine regardless of hosting almost no synonyms. And an overlap with categories is not a reason for deletion of a Wikisaurus entry. As for the moon pages, I abstain. --Dan Polansky (talk) 20:51, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
Abstain as the creator of all these pages, I don't particularly care if they survive or not in the Wikisaurus. But in any event, maybe these lists could be kept in appendices. --Daniel 07:58, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
Delete per nom; use list templates (template:list:moons of Haumea/en, etc). - -sche (discuss) 06:39, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
Eh, list templates are also stupid for those which only have a few moons. Just spell them out. - -sche (discuss) 08:52, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
I've deleted [[Wikisaurus:moon of Haumea]] and [[template:list:moons of Haumea/en]], which only listed two moons; as noted above, other methods (such as categories and simple inclusion of the content in entries) is better for such cases. - -sche (discuss) 18:16, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Template:es-conj-ir (abolir)[edit]

Is this necessary? According to Spanish Wiktionary, abolir is entirely regular. Esszet (talk) 19:06, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

After doing some research, I've found that the RAE is not entirely clear as to whether abolir is a defective verb or not: according to the Diccionario de la lengua española, it is, but according to the Diccionario panhispánico de dudas, it used to be but no longer is. I'll send them an e-mail once their contact service is back up (it's disabled until Monday). Esszet (talk) 19:26, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

I think this entry for the conjugation of "Abolir" should not be deleted but marked as "colloquial" and not "RAE approved" which defines this verb as defective.
The only reason this verb is defective is because of the lack of a consensus on how to conjugate it, not because of a logical impossibility.
(defectiveness rendered mute)
None the less if supposed conjugation are called here upon; five possible verbal templates could be called forth.

I'll make example of the present, past historic and present subjunctive tenses of each since the other verbal tenses can be deduced from it:


FIRST possible conjugational paradigm,

by making it analogous to "poder" (to be able to)

I think of this template as very objectionable the least fit one of all.

The problem with the above conjugational analogy is the striking homophony with the word
"abuelo" (grandfather)
and "abuela" (grandmother)
which actually if this conjugational model is followed, the form
"abuela"would arise in the present subjunctive and mean alternately "were he, she or it to abolish at this present time" and "were I to abolish at this present time",
also "abuelas" which means "grandmothers" would mean "were you (thou) to abolish at this present time".
For these reasons I think of this template as very objectionable the least fit one of all.

SECOND possible conjugational paradigm,

by making it analogous to "tener" (to possess)

The above template doesn't have the homophony problems of the former and would theoretically be much fitter than the former template.
Though Spanish euphonic patterns would weaken the tonic "o" vowel thusly:

The above template (2.2) would arguably be along with (3.2) the fittest within the five possible paradigms.

THIRD possible conjugational paradigm,
If the irregularity of the second template's past historic were to be a problem then it could be conjugated

by making it analogous to: "salir" (to exit)

Which would be exactly like the former one, including the euphonic weakening of the tonic "o" vowel, with the exception of a regular historic past. Like so:

In general I deem (3.2) just as fit as (2.2).
I would argue for the dual alternate past historic both regular and irregular as many verbs already do.

FOURTH possible conjugational paradigm,

by making it analogous to "comer" (to eat)

This template is cacophonic and ambiguous

The above template aside from being most cacophonic
would in the present and present subjunctive tenses give to the notion of "to make ball-like" from the hypothetical but perfectly understandable verb "abolar" "to make ball-like" since "bola" means "ball, round mass, sphere".

FIFTH possible conjugational paradigm,

by making it analogous to "poner" (to place down)

This template isn't that objectionable but in the present tense it would partly also give to the notion of "to make ball-like"; and I reiterate; from the hypothetical but perfectly understandable verb "abolar" "to make ball-like" since "bola" means "ball, round mass, sphere".

We don't really comment on what other dictionaries write, as there as so many of them! Name one dictionary that comments that another dictionary has an entry or has no entry. Also, your comment its pretty much unreadable. Also, is anything being nominated for deletion here? Move to RFC? Move to Talk:abolir, even. Renard Migrant (talk) 10:56, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

User_Gesælig Æsc : The conjugational template for the verb was nominated for deletion, probably because there is no consensus on how to conjugate it and is regarded as a defective verb though it can technically be conjugated as I have shown above within many verbal paradigms but a consensus is needed, I find (2.2) and (3.2) the fittest, which are basically one paradigm with an alternate dual historic past.

User_Gesælig Æsc :
In conclusion I'll argue for the following conjugational template not only the fittest but completely unambiguous, most euphonic and completely analogical with Spanish verbal paradigms:
As with every verb with dual or multiple forms, which one to use and stick to, is left to the discretion and preference of the speaker.

Optimum verbal paradigm of ABOLIR

1st person singular "abulgo"
2nd person singular "abueles"
3rd person singular "abuele"
1st person plural "abolimos"
2nd person plural "abolís"
3rd person plural "abuelen"

1st person singular "abule" and dually along with "abolí"
2nd person singular "abuliste" and dually along with "aboliste"
3rd person singular "abulo" and dually along with "abolió"
1st person plural "abulímos" and dually along with "abolímos"
2nd person plural "abulísteis" and dually along with "abolísteis"
3rd person plural "abulieron" and dually along with "abolieron"

1st person singular "abulga"
2nd person singular "abulgas"
3rd person singular "abulga"
1st person plural "abolgamos"
2nd person plural "abolgáis"
3rd person plural "abulgan"

So... you're arguing for a keep, right? Renard Migrant (talk) 13:10, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

User_Gesælig Æsc: I am sorry Renard Migrant I don't really know what you mean by "keep" in that context.
But if you mean that the verbal paradigm I placed as my definite nomination is the one that definitely should be kept for usage then I would have to agree.

I've just heard back from the RAE, and they said that the Diccionario de la lengua española's latest edition, which was published in 2014 and isn't available online yet, recognizes that abolir is no longer defective:
abolir. (Del lat. abolēre. ♦ U. m. las formas cuya desinencia empieza por -i). tr. Derogar, dejar sin vigencia una ley, precepto, costumbre, etc.
As for the correct conjugation of the forms that may diphthongize or otherwise, they also gave me a selection from Nueva gramática de la lengua española, and it says:
Su conjugación es regular, no sujeta, por tanto, a diptongación (yo abolo, no *yo abuelo).
Therefore, the template is entirely unnecessary and should be deleted. Esszet (talk) 14:49, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

The regular conjugation is in cases such as this no more than just an uncreative default resort, not always an optimum one, the RAE's wish to Latinise Spanish rejecting patrimonial qualities in the alleged interest of global comprehension of the Castilian tongue is ludicrous.
Verbs, specially a verb that has so recently become no longer defective ought not be subject to a default conjugation when there are other far more elegant conjugational paradigms this verb can follow, which if I may say so are only rejected for being patrimonial.
Besides like I mentioned above "abolo" sounds more like "I make ball-like" than it ever does "I abolish"
This conjugation template makes perfect analogy with "tener" and "salir" and does not deviate from the conjugational patterns Spanish verbs follow.
At the very least, this verbal paradigm is an alternative.
As most Castilian speakers know the RAE is wildly assuming and rejective of whatever deviates from making Castilian more like Latin.
If it were for the RAE, all languages of the Iberian peninsula would be classified as dialects of Castilian under the name of Spanish, that's why as you may have noticed I switched from saying Spanish to Castilian.
If ever proof should be called upon, one ought but to look at the patrimonial irregular conjugation patterns other tongues have followed in the Iberian peninsula for the same verb. It is only natural and dignifying that Castilian should embrace it's equivalent, many verbs have completely dual conjugations and I never knew a person who having Castilian as their mother tongue couldn't understand a completely irregular conjugation even were it ever unheard by them.

Gesælig Æsc (talk) 15:30, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

There is no "real" consensus on this verb's paradigm, most people don't know this verb is no longer defective. I am merely hypothesising all possible conjugational paradigms and trying to argue about how this one is best among all possibilities. For reasons of unambiguity and euphony. Anyone trying to conjugate the verb will choose any of the five possibilities. I my self have only heard people leaning towards the FIRST one; on the other side the RAE has decided that the verb should be assigned a regular paradigm represented in the FOURTH one. I my self lean towards the SECOND and THIRD with a euphonic weakening of the tonic vowel "o" in the likes of the verb "podrir" (to rot).

Gesælig Æsc (talk) 16:15, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

In as much of what I have been made aware:

PEOPLE tend to make ABOLIR analogous to verbs such like "poder" (to be able to), "soler" (to do usually) and "doler" (to pain).

The RAE says ABOLIR ought to be made analogous to "comer" (to eat), "beber" (to drink) and "romper" (to break).

I personally lean towards making ABOLIR analogous to "poner" (to put down), "tener" (to have) and "valer" (to be worth)

Well, since the RAE is the official authority on the Spanish language, it would be best to make their preferred conjugation the ‘official’ one (at least here) and include a footnote that says that other conjugations of ‘abolir’ (especially abuelo, abueles, etc.) are common in colloquial speech. We're not supposed to try to change languages, only index them. If you'd like to discuss this further, the discussion should probably be moved to the tea room; otherwise, for the reasons outlined above, I say delete. Esszet (talk) 18:14, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

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Nothin special with it. --Dixtosa (talk) 19:08, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Delete. Renard Migrant (talk) 19:12, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Keep and deprecate; it is now used in too many pages. We need to make the page histories legible. Whoever created this and deployed so widely should have thought twice. --Dan Polansky (talk) 20:53, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
    Comment; true, the template is being used in 3,800+ pages at this moment. However, a substantial number of those is just verbs with conjugation tables that use {{de-conj}} (used in 3,500+ pages). In the conjugation table, there is a cell named "auxiliary" that links to exactly two words: haben and/or sein, using {{l/de}}. I am going to change it to {{l|de}}, which will reflect in the verbs pages and will not make their page histories unreadable for this reason, since the historical versions will just keep using the {{de-conj}} template. If there are performance issues as suggested below, feel free to revert. If there are not any performance issues, I'd vote delete. --Daniel 08:27, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
    Related to my message above, {{de-form-adj}} is also using {{l/de}} in 230+ pages. I am going to edit the template now to remove {{l/de}}. --Daniel 16:49, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
    Inflection tables should really use {{l-self}} instead of {{l}} so that forms that are identical to the lemma show up in bold without a link rather than in blue with a link to the same page you're already on. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 08:34, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

I was wrong, there is a specialty - performance. {{l}} calls (1) a module and does some lookup (2) in order to map a language code to a language name, none of which is done byl/xx. Not sure if the overhead is that problematic though. --Dixtosa (talk) 21:20, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Performance was the entire reason for the existence of all of the l/ templates: at the time, the {{l}} template was causing serious perfomance problems in larger pages. Now that it's been switched over to Lua, that's not as much of an issue, but there are still a few huge index pages where I've swapped out l for l/ templates to fix module errors from overrunning the allowed module-execution time. Chuck Entz (talk) 23:28, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
I imagine it could be removed from the main namespace and used only in appendices. Renard Migrant (talk) 15:46, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
Agreed. Note that these specific templates do not have all the capabilities of {{l}}. For example, they lack gloss parameter.
Also, for only few pages that are {{l}}-intensive we can use {{User:ZxxZxxZ/l-list}}--Dixtosa (talk) 00:47, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
Somewhat hilariously, a lot of these templates call {{l}} directly (see {{l/ty}} for a specific example). So they now do the very thing they were created to avoid. Even worse, because they call l but don't allow all its parameters, so they're literally worse than useless. Renard Migrant (talk) 12:12, 22 April 2015 (UTC)


This should go the way of {{ca-adj-mf}} and {{fr-adj-mf}} and get merged into {{nrf-adj}} with a mf parameter. Renard Migrant (talk) 16:10, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

May 2015[edit]

Template:short form of[edit]

Why keep a template that has a longer name and does the same thing? --Dixtosa (talk) 14:10, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Because it's just a redirect. Redirects can't really be treated the same as templates. It's used in 26 pages, and even if it weren't, since it's not a misleading redirect I see no reason to delete it. Renard Migrant (talk) 18:16, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
Would you also see no reason to delete Template:contractional form of, Template:shorter form of, Template:short variant of etc. when I create them?
There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it. This makes things easier. This is my zen of code.--Dixtosa (talk) 19:26, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
Alright, not misleading and not created purely to piss people off. Renard Migrant (talk) 19:29, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
If you orphan a redirect and remove all references in help pages, categories, etc., there will be nothing to confuse people. If you delete it, on the other hand, anyplace in the edit histories where the template was used will have an ugly redlink instead of content. Chuck Entz (talk) 20:33, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
Restore {{infl}} then--Dixtosa (talk) 15:41, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
And {{proto}}, {{count page}}, {{term/t}}... —CodeCat 16:12, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Appendix:Afrikaans and Dutch Swadesh lists[edit]

This is a table with Swadesh lists of Afrikaans, Dutch and German. We already have:

Is it useful to have a separate table comparing these languages together? (slippery slope argument: When will we stop? Could Appendix:French and Italian Swadesh lists be created? Or Afrikaans, Dutch and German together is especially useful/interesting, keeping it apart from other combinations?) --Daniel 14:49, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

We do also have Appendix:Swadesh lists for Germanic languages and, for that matter, Appendix:Swadesh lists for Romance languages. I'm not sure how useful Swadesh lists for multiple languages are, since no one uses them for glottochronology anymore. They're not really helpful for language comparison purposes, so why bother having more than one language in a list? —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 17:37, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
Delete per Daniel Carrero. Doesn't even have the right name, it should be Appendix:Dutch, Afrikaans and German Swadesh lists. Before you know it, someone's added on Low German, Danish, Luxembourgish, etc. Renard Migrant (talk) 21:13, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

If no one uses Swadesh lists for multiple languages, perhaps all the cross-language lists should be deleted too? Or should they be kept? The ones listed at Template:Swadesh lists are: Afro-AsiaticAlgonquianAltaicAraucanianAustro-AsiaticAustralianAustronesianBalticBaltic-FinnicBantuCelticDené–YeniseianDravidianFormosanFrisianGermanicHmong-MienHokanIberianIndo-AryanIndo-IranianIndo-Iranian (extended)ItalianMayanMuskogeanNiger–CongoOto-MangueanPaleosiberianPenutianRomanceSino-TibetanSlavicSiouanTai–KadaiTibeto-BurmanTupi–GuaraniTurkicUralicUto-Aztecan --Daniel 08:03, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

For the record:
  • Delete the Dutch/Afrikaans/German appendix, for the reasons I stated above and also per Renard Migrant.
  • Keep the whole bunch of family Swadesh lists, I'm not nominating those for deletion, I was just asking. They seem useful enough. I don't see any harm in them aside from maybe comparetively more work to keep both versions consistent with additions/corrections/whatever. --Daniel 11:31, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
I didn't understand that bit of Angr's comments. I see no harm in keeping them for language families which are well enough defined that we know which languages should and shouldn't be in there. Renard Migrant (talk) 16:48, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
Keep, but remove German. Believe this list could be a good addition to [1]; a Germanic languages list would likely be too cluttered to allow an easy use of it. Morgengave (talk) 19:54, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

June 2015[edit]


This was listed for speedy deletion but I did not want to speedy delete it. The reason given was, "Unnecessary and inaccurate. This paradigm is based off of the traditional Telugu grammars that tried to fit the noun system into the Sanskrit case system; it doesn't reflect how nouns/postpositions actually work in Telugu. It's unnecessary because, apart from a few irregularities, all Telugu case suffixes/postpositions are invariable and are attached after a noun in its oblique form, which at most only has two allomorphs. Thus providing the oblique form(s) for each noun and then including an appendix that explained the postpositions would be more than enough to cover Telugu noun inflection."

I don't speak Telugu at all, so I can't comment on this. @AxaiosRex @Stephen G. BrownInternoob 18:24, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Hi! So do you need clarification or elaboration on this? Or, what could I do to convince you that this is actually a good idea? I'm using A Grammar of Modern Telugu written by Krishnamurti and Glynn and published in 1985, so it's reasonably modern and, from what I see, includes good, descriptive linguistic analysis that feels good to me as a heritage/native speaker. –AxaiosRex (అక్షయ్⁠రాజ్) 22:16, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
I think you can make an arrangement like that (listing oblique forms and a central appendix) work for advanced students, but I don’t think that most Americans, Brits, Canadians, and Australians who want to study Telugu would be able to use your appendix system at a beginning or intermediate level. But do it however you like. I’m not going to get into an argument about it. —Stephen (Talk) 23:27, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, I get you. I just think this is a lot more concise and less redundant. Also, if you wanted to include a declension table, I feel you would quickly rush into issues with just which postpositions you wanted to include on it, considering there are so many suffixes and adverbs and other words that could fill that morphological category. I suppose you could just include those ones that are purely postpositions (and thus don't have their own oblique forms and can't take their own postpositions), but that would make it seem like those are the only ones that exist. However, there is also the issue of phonological interactions between the oblique and the postposition, which could complicate things enough that a declension table would be necessary, though for the written standard that isn't as much of an issue, I believe. @Stephen G. BrownAxaiosRex (అక్షయ్⁠రాజ్) 00:49, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
Re: what could I do to convince you that this is actually a good idea? I basically just want it to fail an RFD. I was not comfortable speedy deleting this template because 1 it was made by a trusted user, and 2 I don't know anything about Telugu. —Internoob 01:06, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
  • Delete. Also note that it's orphaned, and IMO perfectly appropriate for speedying. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 01:37, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
    • It's not orphaned anymore. It's used on 19 entries. I have no opinion on whether it should be kept or not, but if not it needs to be orphaned. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 23:41, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

Template:l/..., Template:link/...[edit]

Proposal: Delete {{l/pt}}, {{l/en}} and the others like those, or delete as many as possible if for some reason some of those should be kept. Full list is collapsed above this message. I did not take the trouble to tag all of those {{rfdo}}, only German and Latin are tagged.

Rationale: Use | rather than /, that is, {{l|pt}} rather than {{l/pt}}. This assumes it does the same thing and that we don't need anymore {{l/pt}} or {{l/en}} or others to consume less resources on the server like we apparently needed pre-Lua or in case they do something that {{l}} can't or some other reason.

Current RFDO discussions:

Older discussion:

It's worth noting that in the current RFDO discussions some of these templates seem to be treated like obvious crap to be deleted by some people. Quoting Renard Migrant (talkcontribs) from the l/de discussion: "Somewhat hilariously, a lot of these templates call {{l}} directly (see {{l/ty}} for a specific example). So they now do the very thing they were created to avoid. Even worse, because they call l but don't allow all its parameters, so they're literally worse than useless." --Daniel 01:55, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Delete any of these that do not provide any features beyond those available in {{l}}. Keep any, such as {{l/he}}, that do provide special features. --WikiTiki89 16:09, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
For those of us that don't edit Hebrew entries much, what are the special features of {{l/he}}? --Daniel 16:17, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
{{l/he|חייל|dwv=חַיָּל}} produces חייל \ חַיָּל. It is more convenient than redundantly typing {{l|he|חייל|חייל \ חַיָּל}}. --WikiTiki89 17:24, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
I think that any that are kept should be renamed. Something like {{he-l}}. —CodeCat 16:41, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
Why? --WikiTiki89 17:24, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
I agree with CodeCat (talkcontribs). Because AFAIK this should start with he- like other Hebrew templates. Note we already have {{ja-l}} and {{ko-l}} with special behavior, namely showing multiple scripts in order and also the Korean one has an auto-transliteration module implemented. "l/" implies subpage of {{l}} so I'd argue we should only start a template name with that if its actually part of the system of {{l}}. --Daniel 11:36, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
But it is part of the system of {{l}}. It is implemented with the same module and supports all of the parameters that {{l}} supports. --WikiTiki89 15:12, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
That's OK. I have an idea: can't we nuke {{l/he}} with the others and make {{l}} support dmv= as an additional parameter? --Daniel 13:05, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
dwv= makes sense only for Hebrew. DWV = "defective with vowels". It's silly to add language-specific features to a general template. --WikiTiki89 12:23, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
I was thinking maybe we should really add language-specific features to a general template, but that's OK, maybe having the actual language-specific template is really better. --Daniel 23:01, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

I don't think that it's possible to orphan all these templates at the moment because they are many and while some people are converting from the format of "l/de" to "l|de" others still keep adding new instances in the format of "l/de". (Pending actual diffs, I can get those later.) I was thinking of creating a vote for the whole project of deleting all l/... templates, or at least a BP poll or something to let other people know what is going on and agree upon this. --Daniel 23:01, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

  • Keep all templates that were ever relatively widely used. Deprecate them instead. Keep revision histories legible. --Dan Polansky (talk) 16:55, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Template:filling station[edit]

It's time to Delete this template, a dead duck which contained a list of synonyms for "filling station". It was created in 2007 by long-departed User:16@r. It might have been handy at the time, but it has been superseded by Wikisaurus. I have just updated ws:filling station to include all the synonyms listed in this template, and I removed the template from the mainspace entries where it was used (there were only 4 of them), taking care to ensure that each entry does contain a link to the Wikisaurus record. -- · (talk) 04:43, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Delete. It seems redundant now. Equinox 12:06, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Template:User SUL[edit]

Since now everyone has a global account, this box adds nothing of value. (Not that it added much before.) Keφr 15:35, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Delete. Equinox 15:38, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
It has two good links and also says which wikiproject the user is most active in.--Dixtosa (talk) 15:46, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
One of the links is already at the bottom of Special:Contributions. As for the "most active project", you can just go to m:Special:CentralAuth and see for yourself. The user page links are also easily reachable from there. Keφr 15:58, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
Delete per nom. - -sche (discuss) 07:03, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Template:User Wikipedia[edit]

Might as well add this to the nomination, even though I have almost no opinion on it. (What is the difference whether you use this or {{wikipedia}}?) Though note it is technically in violation of WT:UBV anyway, and as such speedy-deletable. Keφr 15:58, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Delete or redirect, per nom (use {{wikipedia}}). - -sche (discuss) 07:03, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
@-sche: Unfortunately, {{wikipedia}} just links to w:Foo if used on User:Foo; presumably we should edit the userpages of all editors currently using this template so that it links correctly. Similarly, we should remove the other ones from userpages (as they look like they're going to fail). —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 23:02, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
Or we could just fix {{wikipedia}} so that it does what it is expected to do. --WikiTiki89 23:42, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
My thinking was you'd just put {{wikipedia|User:Metaknowledge}} on your page. Wikitiki's idea is better. - -sche (discuss) 03:33, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Template:User unified login[edit]

Likewise. This is true of all users now. Keφr 18:23, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Delete per nom. - -sche (discuss) 07:03, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
Orphaned (per discussion two subsections up) and deleted. - -sche (discuss) 18:03, 24 January 2016 (UTC)


No longer needed --Type56op9 (talk) 12:04, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

There are still two transclusions that the new template does not yet support. --WikiTiki89 15:06, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

July 2015[edit]


Links to sections other than languages are discouraged, because they don't work right with our entry structure. Entries can and often do have multiple sections with the same name, which makes it impossible to link to them by name. As soon as a new section with that name is added, it could break such links. All in all, you can't rely on any section link pointing to the right place. This is why we have {{senseid}}. —CodeCat 17:25, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

They work perfectly well with English and Translingual sections, with the most modest of caveats. The worst that happens when the section link is "broken" is that the user is not taken to the exact section appropriate, but rather one above it. It seems to me that section links are more disruptive to someone's exaggerated sense of order and control than to the user experience.
If more effort were devoted to otherwise facilitating links from, say, inflected forms to the appropriate section of the lemma, I could accept that this simple template offered more harm than good. But in the present situation, it seems simply that something that is simple, useful, and highly desirable for English and Translingual sections is being opposed with nothing comparably simple and effective on offer.
To anticipate the a response, the approach used in the section headings on this and similar pages is effective only because it is inserted automatically in the normal RfD, RfV, RfDO, RfM, RfC, and RfM processes. Inserting such links in other cases is at best difficult at present. Does anyone have any constructive ideas about making it easier to insert them en masse (but selectively), for example, for all English inflected forms of words with multiple etymologies or with multiple PoSes on long English entries with one Etymology section but lots of polysemy? DCDuring TALK 18:16, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Template:inflected form of[edit]

This template is widely used for German adjective forms, but it doesn't actually say anything about what form. The reason is, presumably, because a single German adjective form can have a variety of different functions, as can be seen at roten. However, I don't think that's really an excuse to just give up and say "it's just some form, we can't be bothered to tell you which". So I think this should be deleted, or at least orphaned for German entries. I don't know if it's used for any other language.

Alternatively, if there isn't an agreement on actually showing the inflections, we could rename all German uses to {{de-inflected form of}}. Then we can re-evaluate whatever transclusions of this template remain for other languages. Presumably if it's only used for German, we don't need this. —CodeCat 21:22, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

I don't mind renaming it {{de-inflected form of}}, but I do prefer having a single line saying "inflected form of rot" to 26 lines listing every possible form. Either way, the user isn't going to find what they're looking for, but with a single uninformative line at least they realize that fact quickly and can click through to rot to find the inflection table, while with 26 lines, they're going to spend 15 minutes perusing them all trying to figure out which one of those 26 forms they're looking at in their text before giving up and going to the inflection table at rot. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 04:55, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
@Angr Kephir did get the number at roten down to 11, which is more manageable.
In any case, I've now started to rename all the German uses to {{de-inflected form of}}, which I just created. There seem to be a few other German-like languages that also use this template, like Luxembourgish and Yiddish. But there's far less entries for those. But I'm thinking, if it's too much to actually show the list of forms, what we could do at least is give them some abstract name. For example, roten would have something like "-en form" and rotes gets "-es form". That way there's a bit more information than just "inflected form of" at least. What do you think of this? —CodeCat 14:05, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
Down to 11 is better. "-en form" and "-es form" is easy to read but not very informative since anyone can see roten ends in -en and rotes ends in -es. It's a little tautological. I suppose what would be ideal would be to repeat the inflection table at the inflected form. (I know we don't normally do that, but we could make an exception.) That way the definition line could just say "inflected form of rot (see table below)" and then the user would open up the table and all the instances of roten would be in bold face and everything else would be a link. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 14:13, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
I agree that "-es form" would be stupid. (It would also, AFAICT, be our own idiosyncratic invention; I can't find any references in German or English that use such a designation.) I don't like the idea of duplicating inflection tables, either. I think the idea, previously discussed, of having a line like "inflection of x" and then collapsed subsenses is probably the best balance of übersichtlich ‎(easy to look over) and yet informative. - -sche (discuss) 23:35, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
It would have already implemented the collapsing behaviour if not for a certain editor who claims the sky is falling with everything I do. —CodeCat 23:39, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
It seems to be a useful template - I don't remember using it, but it would speed up adding word forms. As Aɴɢʀ says above - a one line "form-of" puts the user one click away from an inflection table, and would speed up creating all those inflected forms! If its renamed to {{de-inflected form of}} I would, if I followed that route, have to create an {{el-inflected form of}} !   — Saltmarshσυζήτηση-talk 14:59, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
I don't see what it's useful for, other than if you're actually creating form-of entries by hand (why, I don't know) and feel to lazy to give a proper definition. You should use {{inflection of}} for Greek entries. —CodeCat 15:51, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Keep for a general use by the editors who prefer these sort of form-of entries that do not indicate which form it is, and merely direct the reader to the lemma with an inflection table. Do not rename to {{de-inflected form of}}. Stop removing the uses of the template. --Dan Polansky (talk) 23:17, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
    • This is not a matter of preference. Form-of entries should always give information about the form. This is the established practice and has been forever. If we want to start allowing editors to put {{inflected form of}} instead of the appropriate definition, whenever editors feel like it, then there should be a consensus and a vote to change the format of form-of entries. —CodeCat 23:33, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
      • Providing the specific inflected form is not the sole established practice. CodeCat's removal of more than 5000 uses of the template shows otherwise. Even now, the current uses of {{de-inflected form of}} and similar show that there are two practices established. I asked before in a failed vote that CodeCat's bot is debotted, and I ask, somehow in vain I feel, again. CodeCat's bot made changes without consensus; CodeCat's suggestion that the state being changed was somehow forbidden or not supported is denied by verifiable evidence. --Dan Polansky (talk) 23:39, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
    As per https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/MewBot&offset=&limit=5000&target=MewBot, the template was recently used in more than 5000 entries. Now it's largely gone. --Dan Polansky (talk) 23:32, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Keep but discourage. It is better to show specific information about an inflected form, but this information is not always known by the editor and there may be other scenarios where it would make sense. --WikiTiki89 11:19, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
    • Maybe the use of this template could put the entry in a cleanup category alerting editors to the fact that a more specific template is needed. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 12:05, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
    • Keep per Wikitiki.​—msh210 (talk) 20:59, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Keep, and I like Angr's idea of doing so with a cleanup category. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 16:07, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Keep Purplebackpack89 23:54, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Isn't "inflected form of" far too vague in most cases, and use should be discouraged? Is it the lazy way out? Donnanz (talk) 14:05, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
  • This is a !vote on what should be done with this template. The question of whether or not a !vote that just says "this is a !vote" but doesn't say "delete" or "keep" is a useful !vote can perhaps be answered in the same way as the question of whether or not a template that just says "inflected form of" but doesn't say "dative", "plural", "definite", etc is a useful template. - -sche (discuss) 16:56, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
    @-sche: Umm... what? --WikiTiki89 21:10, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
    In other words: "Is it useful to say 'this is a vote' instead of 'keep' or 'delete'?" may have the same answer as "Is it useful to say 'this is an inflected form of' instead of 'this is the dative case of'?" - -sche (discuss) 21:24, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
  • RFD kept. @CodeCat, if you still want it gone, cleanup categories and pitching specific replacements to editors working in the languages that still use this would be the way to go. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:37, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Category:English terms spelled with ‐[edit]

I don't quite see the point in categorizing all hyphenated terms just because they contain (gasp) a hyphen. -- Liliana 11:42, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

I don't see the point either, bearing in mind that some words can be spelt with or without a hyphen; e,g. well-deserved or well deserved. I would suggest deletion. Donnanz (talk) 16:19, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
Probably the intent was to get around the limitations of the search engine. Even in Cirrus Search it is not obvious to me how one can simply construct a regular expression that would find only entries that had certain special characters (. ? + * | { } [ ] ( ) " \ # @ & < > ~) in the title. Of all of those we can be most sure that we have entries with "-" in the title. Can anyone proved a regular expression that would work? It the search were limited, even if only by the word "English", but better by incategory:"English lemmas", the reqex search need not bring the servers to their knees.
Unless and until such a regular expression is available and documented somewhere we are likely to be able to find when it is needed, Keep. DCDuring TALK 17:09, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
Why was this depopulated? DCDuring TALK 17:28, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
Good old fashioned pointlessness from Daniel Carrero who cared more about amusing himself than doing something that would be useful for other users. Kill. Renard Migrant (talk) 18:12, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
@Renard Migrant: But this would have had a point had it been populated. Do you know how to use CirrusSearch to find entries that contain specific characters, including special characters without killing the servers? This kind of category can facilitate searches using regular expressions if no other category is available that reasonably limits the list of entries that the regular expressions are applied to. DCDuring TALK 18:56, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

August 2015

Category:Cantonese Yale / Template:yue-Yale[edit]

The category only features six pages and the template is only used on the same six pages; it looks like User:Bravo-Alpha~enwiktionary tried to spread Yale romanization but stopped early on. —suzukaze (tc) 23:20, 6 August 2015 (UTC)


Unused template, superseded by {{confix}} and {{affix}}. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 19:04, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

  • Delete. It wouldn't even work in its current state, it uses templates we've replaced long ago. —CodeCat 19:11, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
    And yet it was created only 5 months ago. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 20:30, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
I wonder why DCDuring did it, then? Was it a migration thing, migrating from an old to a new template, and was intended to be deleted when no longer used? It doesn't matter of course, delete either way. Renard Migrant (talk) 16:05, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
Ping.​—msh210 (talk) 20:50, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
I was, have been, and remain concerned about the arbitrary revision of our infrastructure to little good end. I foolishly thought that it would be possible and useful to retain the vestiges of older and IMHO more accessible methods in the face of a headlong rush to remove most infrastructure from influence by more or less normal contributors. It seems like the forces of evil have won. DCDuring TALK 00:21, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Appendix:List of the 1750 most frequently used French words[edit]

I think when Wonderfool made this 10 years ago, it was supposed to be a "find missing entries on WT" page. All the links are blue now, and I can't see much of a purpose for this. --A230rjfowe (talk) 19:03, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Absolutely delete. Since it has no definitions it's just a list of words, and for defining them, we have the entries themselves (and yes all are done). Renard Migrant (talk) 17:08, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
Why? We have frequency lists for other languages. --WikiTiki89 17:41, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
Despite the title, this isn't a frequency list. Renard Migrant (talk) 17:49, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
Well, then fix it up to make it one. Keep Purplebackpack89 18:58, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
Delete. This isn't a frequency list, so it's misnamed (or you should provide references proving otherwise), and if someone were to find a reference that authoritatively stated what the most common French words were, 1750 is too weird a number -- go for the most common 1000, or 2000. - -sche (discuss) 19:33, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
I can't imagine how in any language the word for watering can (arrosoir in French) would be in the top 1750 most frequently used words. Perhaps there is a bizarre tribe which worships them....--A230rjfowe (talk) 22:47, 25 August 2015 (UTC)


Proto-Baltic was deleted as a language just recently after a Beer Parlour discussion which had majority support. But now Pereru seems to be hell-bent on creating this page and making it appear like a real language as much as possible (and reverting my attempts to change it). And then working around the fact that there is no longer a language code for this language (which means no way for any page to link to the entry and no use of {{head}}) by other means. I think this makes no sense; we delete the language, but then we pretend it's not deleted by giving it its own entries and categories?

Aside from all this, the reconstruction itself is wrong too. The Lithuanian nominative singular akmuõ does not come from *akmens, it comes from the older form *akmō, a direct continuation of PIE *h₂éḱmō. It's only Latvian that has reformed the nominative analogically. —CodeCat 22:31, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

The discussion is not even 12 hours old (let alone a day.) Don't you think a bit hasty? And I actually think this might not be such a bad idea and I think WikiTiki kind of (unless I misread) suggested that too (other uninvolved parties have yet to post there.) Neitrāls vārds (talk) 01:24, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

September 2015[edit]

Index:Mandarin Pinyin/*[edit]

No one uses or needs this. In addition it is redundant because of pages like gēng#Mandarin, which are more likely to be seen by people and corrected. 03:50, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

I'd say delete per nom. Incomplete due to being out of sync with mainspace entries, and if it were complete it would be a pointless duplicate. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 23:22, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Keep: we are having indexes that get out of sync, for many languages. They can be updated by bots; some of them are. Getting out of date is per se not a reason for deletion. It is not a pointless duplicate; it is an aggreation of information on few pages that is otherwise strewn across many pages. --Dan Polansky (talk) 12:51, 11 October 2015 (UTC)
Delete: I don't see the need for these pages; looking up ga1/ga2/ga3/ga4 is not hard —suzukaze (tc) 20:01, 20 November 2015 (UTC)


Barely used, if specific translations are needed {{t-needed}} can be used. DTLHS (talk) 01:32, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

And maybe Template:treq , which kinda does the same thing --Zo3rWer (talk) 12:18, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Template:zh-diacritical mark[edit]

Mandarin has pinyin tones and Min Nan has POJ tones but Chinese characters have no diacritics. —suzukaze (tc) 08:36, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

It could be used for pinyin tones I suppose. Not that I advocate it in particular. Renard Migrant (talk) 15:00, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
I created this template. I don't speak Chinese; that was just a general effort to standardize and clean up accents in all languages. For that reason, I am willing to cater to actual editors of Chinese and what they think is best.
First of all, IMO deleting this template is a secondary question. The most important question is: Can we have entries for pinyin and POJ tones regardless? Could we keep the Mandarin section, with {{cmn-diacritical mark}} and the entry ¯#Mandarin (compare ¯#Japanese in the same page)? I just ask that we keep information like this, about tidbits of romanization and writing, in their logical places. If we can do that, I'm fine with deleting {{zh-diacritical mark}} as proposed. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 15:43, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
I understand that the unified Chinese vote only applies to Han script terms, so keeping {{cmn-diacritical mark}} is fine with me. —suzukaze (tc) 02:27, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

October 2015[edit]


This is completely redundant to {{rfdef}}. Both templates have the same purpose and the same parameters. They only differ in what message is displayed. —CodeCat 13:55, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Note: According to [[template talk:defn]], we've kept this twice as "no consensus".​—msh210 (talk) 17:00, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
Keep for the reasons covered in the earlier discussions.​—msh210 (talk) 17:00, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
Hmm, my initial reaction is to say: delete per nom. But merging it into {{rfdef}} would flood the category that rfdef places entries into (rfdef seems to be deployed only on entries people specifically want defined, whereas defn was apparently deployed semi-automatically on a huge set of Chinese characters). - -sche (discuss) 00:24, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
They already categorise the same way. —CodeCat 00:40, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
I think as they stand they're near-identical. During past rfd's they had different parameters and categorization so a redirect wouldn't work whereas it would now. I'd honestly just delete this. The Han characters already have Category:Han characters needing common meanings which rfdef supports, so fears of an inundation of Han characters are unfounded. Renard Migrant (talk) 18:08, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
Category:Chinese entries needing definition is already flooded anyway. See also Wiktionary:Grease_pit/2015/December#.7B.7Brfdef.7D.7D_and_Han_characters. —suzukaze (tc) 07:33, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
Delete or redirect per the above discussion. - -sche (discuss) 17:37, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
Delete or redirect. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:11, 25 January 2016 (UTC)


Redundant to Wikisaurus:juoppo, which I created based on Wikisaurus:drunkard/translations back in 2009‎. The convention of having non-English entries in Wikisaurus under the language-specific headwords has now been used by many Portuguese and multiple Polish entries and seems well established. This page, using an alternative convention, can be deleted. --Dan Polansky (talk) 15:08, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

November 2015[edit]

Appendix:Glossary of idioms – A et al.[edit]

They are redundant to Category:Idioms by language, they present an editorial perspective (“Here are some editors' picks of popular and picturesque idioms in the English language”), and they are very Anglocentric (“albatross around one's neck — Global”). — Ungoliant (falai) 17:42, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

I agree, categorization is much better in terms of better quality of definition (likely to be seen by more editors), alphabetized, divided by language, easier to navigate. Any genuine-looking red links can go on WT:RE:en (and so on) a few red links isn't enough to save it. Renard Migrant (talk) 18:02, 2 November 2015 (UTC)


I’ve never seen one case where displaying “α forms” and “β forms” has improved an entry, or done anything other than confuse readers. Most uses can be removed; the few that contain useful information can be replaced with {{qualifier}}. — Ungoliant (falai) 16:44, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

  • Redirect to Template:qualifier Purplebackpack89 16:55, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
    I don't see how that can be done, since the templates do totally different things. --WikiTiki89 16:56, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
    We'd have to orphan after redirecting like Wikitiki89 says because they don't work in the same way. Renard Migrant (talk) 18:37, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, “α forms” and “β forms” make it seem that α and β have a pre-determined linguistic meaning, which they don't in this case; they are simply being used as the name of an arbitrary group. If we really want to group alternative forms like this, we can do so visually without naming the groups with Greek letters. So delete. --WikiTiki89 16:56, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
Oh God yes delete. Doremítzwr had a reputation for creating things that he found pleasing but added no value to the project (or even harmed the project) but he felt as long as he was happy, stuff the project. Renard Migrant (talk) 18:37, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
  • Delete Absolutely useless – just gives an arbitrary name to something that's already described in a perfectly adequate way (and suggests an ordering that's inappropriate). Look at traveler's diarrhea – "UK", "US" and "mixed"(?) would suffice without Greek letters. Similiarly, scion, rix-dollar, poena, embryo etc could all lose the Greek letters without changing in any way. The only place the letters are actually referred to is finocchio... and really, that definition should be at finocchia, if it doesn't turn out to be totally spurious. Smurrayinchester (talk) 14:42, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
(As an aside, when this gets deleted, the corresponding glossary entry should also go) Smurrayinchester (talk) 14:48, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

This has a bunch of transclusions so cannot yet be deleted. I went to edit the template in light of the above discussion, removing the Greek letters, as a temporary measure until the entries could be edits. But then I realized: that's all that's really necessary. The template adds value to entries (see e.g. [[halfpenny#Alternative forms]], though I haven't checked how many entries it adds value to): it's only the arbitrary Greek letters that don't. I think we should keep the newly edited template. Pinging the other discussants here, since it's been a while since there's been any activity in this section.

Note that if this template is deleted or kept as edited, then [[Appendix:Glossary#F]] needs to have the entry for "α/β/γ/… form(s)" removed. And if the template is kept as edited, then its documentation needs to be updated.​—msh210 (talk) 18:18, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

@msh210: The same text could be put in a {{qualifier}}, could it not? The concept of separating alternative forms by features may add value, but this {{forms}} template itself does not, as far as I can tell. --WikiTiki89 18:24, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
I suppose that's right.​—msh210 (talk) 20:15, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
What does the new template actually do? As far as I can tell, it just transcludes the text typed into it. I'd be happy to spend a few minutes subst'ing all the remaining uses (there's only 20-something). Smurrayinchester (talk) 09:12, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
It gives the third parameter and a adds a colon, right. Substing should not be mindless, though, because the surrounding text may refer to the (now-gone) Greek letters. (This is something I should've fixed when editing the template. That is, it's an issue related to changing the template, not to substing it.)​—msh210 (talk) 17:38, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Okay, so I guess there's some consensus here to subst: and then delete the new version. I'll start subst:ing.​—msh210 (talk) 17:49, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Certain talk pages[edit]

Most of thesethese. IMO it's spam made in good faith. —suzukaze (tc) 05:12, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

These relatively few pages seem pretty harmless really. However, it might be good for somebody to talk to the creator next time and point out that Wiktionary is far from "complete". The more extreme case of this was when somebody was disruptively adding Etymology requests to every ety-less entry. Equinox 16:29, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
This same IP has been adding "can it be added" requests to a great number of Chinese character talk pages for years: try this for the more common variant. As for talking to them, I believe @Atitarev has had discussions with them on other issues (they make lots of several types of requests relating to several languages) without much cooperation. Chuck Entz (talk) 17:04, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
I am annoyed with these numerous questions with no answers in talk pages and the usage of {{attention}} but what can I do? Some people just pepper entries with requests, genuine and not, ignoring if we have any resources or interest to fill them. The situation would only be slightly better if those unanswered requests were in the Tea room or similar.--Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 21:02, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
I think if we delete these, we have to delete all talk pages with information in them relevant to the entry they pertain to. Renard Migrant (talk) 23:07, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
I agree. This is part of what talk pages are meant for. Keep.​—msh210 (talk) 18:23, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
I agree. Keep. --WikiTiki89 18:26, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
Many of these cases of multiple readings is because the initial data was imported from a shitty database, and
  1. many of the entries have been cleaned up since
  2. the ones that aren't are likely to be obscure dead characters no-one cares about
  3. when someone does get around to cleaning up the page for the character no-one cares about, the wrong reading will be removed in the process if the one who cleans up the page has the common sense to check other dictionaries
FWIW there are currently 1,128 items in Category:Mandarin terms needing attention. —suzukaze (tc) 07:14, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

These too[edit]

Asking "is this traditional, simplified, or both" is like asking "can <noun> have a plural form". Additionally, I am confident that 99% of those pages already mention a character's simplified/traditional equivalent, and if it doesn't have one it can be logically inferred from the lack of a simplified/traditional equivalent on the page that it is "both", which will be true in 99% of the cases. —suzukaze (tc) 07:14, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

TBH another reason I want these gone is that the formatting of pages like Talk:苦 really ticks me off. When I see that there's a talk page, I expect a thoughtful, meaningful question, not this trash.suzukaze (tc) 07:21, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

December 2015[edit]

Index:Chinese four corner/all[edit]

This is a master index page which attempts to transclude all the other index pages, but the combined total is more than can be transcluded on a single page. Chuck Entz (talk) 14:02, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

@suzukaze-c, Tooironic: Is there any interest in keeping this? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:27, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
I know nothing about the four corner method. —suzukaze (tc) 04:39, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
I should mention that Index:Chinese four corner has links to all the sub-index pages that this tries to transclude, so the basic functionality is covered, if not as elegantly. It's not a bad idea in theory, but if you can only display 8 out of the 9 sub-pages, what's the point? Chuck Entz (talk) 05:19, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
Putting it that way, /all does currently seem a bit pointless. —suzukaze (tc) 09:21, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
  • Okay, I just wanted to check that there wasn't opposition among the Chinese editorship. RFD failed. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:08, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
  • For the record I don't know anything about this method either. ---> Tooironic (talk) 00:54, 28 January 2016 (UTC)


This template seems to have been used solely for {{da-noun-infl-unc}}, which was deleted two years ago.__Gamren (talk) 17:18, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

You say that, Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:da-noun-infl-unc-base indicates about 100 uses. Renard Migrant (talk) 12:51, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
Ah yes, my mistake; {{da-noun-infl}} uses it if n=sg. I retract my request and update the documentation.__Gamren (talk) 13:35, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Category:Move to Wiktionary[edit]

Some old category from the gloomy Transwiki era. No longer used. And, obviously, these have been moved to Wiktionary. --Stubborn Pen (talk) 16:39, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Haha, "no longer used" because you just stripped it off every page that had it. It doesn't look enormously useful though. Equinox 10:31, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
If kept, should be Category:Moved to Wiktionary as we can't move things from Wiktionary to Wiktionary. Could perhaps be a useful home for everything with the prefix Transwiki: unless there's already a category for that. Renard Migrant (talk) 12:24, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
This is used in WP entries to be transwikied here, and is not stripped automatically with the transwiki. Thus, even if we delete the category page, the category will continue to be populated (though rarely, of course, since we hardly get transwikis). And the category page has useful info. Keep.​—msh210 (talk) 18:31, 22 December 2015 (UTC)



Unused; seems to have been a shortcut for links such as those in Template:cmn-zh-p. —suzukaze (tc) 05:46, 21 December 2015 (UTC)


Unused and bizarre; it seems to be nothing more than a link to traditional Chinese. —suzukaze (tc) 05:46, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Probably a context template when it was created in 2004. It was probably superseded almost a decade ago when {{context}} was created in 2006. Renard Migrant (talk) 21:53, 21 December 2015 (UTC)




Was used in translations instead of {{t}} (etc); all occurrences in the main namespace have been replaced. —suzukaze (tc) 07:20, 21 December 2015 (UTC)


Unused. {{zh-l}} is used for this now. —suzukaze (tc) 10:17, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Appendix:Latin verbs (A to K)[edit]

Appendix:Latin verbs (L to Z)[edit]

So, what's the point? It's list of Latin verbs with definitions and some have etymologies and descendants. Isn't this was the main namespace is for? It seems to be a transwiki which is why there are so many bad internal links. Renard Migrant (talk) 21:25, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

To make matters worse, the formatting of the verbs from A to K differs from the formatting for the verbs L to Z. A to K shows: First PP, Second PP, Third PP, Fourth PP. L to Z shows: Present, Infinitive, Past perfect, Passive perfect participle. The L to Z in my opinion is the better formatting. With regards to deleting the two entries: 1. They can never be a complete record of all Latin verbs. 2. They are conjugated but not defined as to which version/era of Latin it's from, e.g. classical, christian, medieval, vulgar, etc. The verbs belong in a better environment. Colourlessgreenideas 12:07, 2 January 2016 (UTC)


An experiment that never went anywhere. It was only ever used on one entry, and I've switched that one over to the usual vertical template, {{ga-prep-infl}}. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 23:24, 26 December 2015 (UTC)


Tagged but not listed a couple of years ago. If a bot replaced all instances with {{cy-mut-auto}}, this and all its redirects could be deleted. See Template talk:cy-mut-o for an older, related discussion. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 13:08, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

January 2016[edit]

Module:First steps[edit]

Not used anywhere as far as I can tell. I can't figure out what it is supposed to do. SemperBlotto (talk) 09:07, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Fwiw there's some documentation at [[v:module talk:First steps]].​—msh210 (talk) 17:12, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
Yeah and I still can't figure out what it's supposed to do. Renard Migrant (talk) 18:38, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
It looks like it's supposed to be a documentation module along the lines of the one that generates WT:List of languages. I'm sure its creator envisioned something like the scene in w:2001: A Space Odyssey, where one minute, you have apes fighting over a carcass, then a monolith appears, and suddenly they're writing sophisticated WM-compliant code to the sounds of the Blue Danube Waltz.
The problem is that it needs documentation that explains things. If I don't know anything about the MW and _G libraries, an uncommented dump of their contents is of no help whatsoever. If I knew enough about them to understand those dumps, I presumably would be able to track down the original libraries and look through them without bothering with the module (and I would hope there's actual documentation somewhere, too). I see there's also a thicket of links on that other module's talk page, presumably so one can click on them one at a time and All Will Be Answered. As with the code dumps, some explanation is needed to provide context. As it is now, the module is nothing but a source of confusion. Chuck Entz (talk) 15:58, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Delete--Dixtosa (talk) 13:53, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Can User:Gangleri AKA User:I18n clarify why this is useful? --Dan Polansky (talk) 14:35, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Appendix:List of sequenced animal genomes[edit]

Doesn't seem like an appropriate dictionary page. DCD's gonna have some strong arguments for keeping, though --Stubborn Pen (talk) 23:31, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

It has two funtions:
  1. yet another list of taxa that might appear in books and articles
  2. a target for links from the entries, which link also served to mark the taxa as modern model organisms.
About 35 taxon entries link to it. Fewer than 50 of the taxa in the Appendix have entries.
Yes check.svg Done The first function is served just about as well if it were a user page, especially now that we have Wiktionary:Redlink dumps Yes check.svg Done.
Yes check.svg Done The second function could be served better by linking to the corresponding WP appendix, which is actively maintained and seems to have 50% more entries.
IOW, I don't really care, but would like to have enough time to replace the links with WP links. DCDuring TALK 02:15, 9 January 2016 (UTC)


I've been wanting to get rid of this template for ages. It was probably very useful back in the early days, but seems like an outdated relic today --Stubborn Pen (talk) 23:50, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Support, too hard to update. Also {{hi-rank}} should be deleted. —Aryamanarora (मुझसे बात करो) 00:07, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
Is there any reason to delete this? Renard Migrant (talk) 16:36, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
Support, not very useful information to keep in the entries. If anything, could be made an appendix. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 08:19, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
Also delete {{hi-rank}}, it is an unused template. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 08:30, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Category:French verbs with conjugation -er[edit]

Redundant to Category:French first group verbs. I don't think there's any distinction to be made here, and French first group verbs is a much better title as it describes the conjugation pattern. Renard Migrant (talk) 15:21, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

These aren't quite the same thing. The above category doesn't include the subclasses like Category:French verbs with conjugation -cer. I personally don't like the name Category:French first group verbs as it isn't obvious which verbs are talked about unless you happen to know what "first group" means. (AFAIK, the first/second/third group division is taught to French students but not to American students, who instead learn about -er, -ir, -re and sometimes -oir verbs.) I think the categories should have names something like Category:French regular -er verbs, Category:French regular -ir verbs and Category:French irregular verbs, which is more descriptive and fits the way they are named in other languages (at least, Category:X irregular verbs exists in many languages). Benwing2 (talk) 20:56, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
  • That's odd (at best) as a word like commencer does end in -er. Renard Migrant (talk) 18:15, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
    Commencer ends in -er, but some of its conjugations are slightly different (because they contain a ç) are different than the straight -er conjugations. Aller is an -er verb and its conjugations are way different. Vouloir is way different than regular -ir verbs, while faire doesn't have a great deal in common with regular -re verbs. Purplebackpack89 02:11, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
  • Redirect Category:French first group verbs to this (and make similar moves for -ir and -re verbs): "First group?" What the hell's that supposed to mean? I speak French. When I learned it in high school, we learned them as -er, -ir and -re verbs, not first group, second group and third group. Designating one "first", one "second" and one "third" is arbitrary and devoid of meaning. Purplebackpack89 22:13, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
    You can read Category:French first group verbs. I don't like that logic. It's a bit like renaming Category:English nouns to Category:English naming words because a lot of people don't know what a noun is. I mean, that's what they are called. Renard Migrant (talk) 18:15, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
    I don't think this is the same thing at all. Most people are familiar with the term "noun", whereas most people aren't familiar with the 1st/2nd/3rd terminology, which is opaque as to what these verbs represent. "Regular -er verbs" is just as concise and says exactly what they are using more familiar terminology. "Regular -er verbs" will be understandable to all, whereas I wouldn't know what a "naming word" is off the top of my head. Benwing2 (talk) 23:32, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
    Knowing what a noun is on a relatively low plane. Knowing which order of French verbs are which is on a much higher plane, particularly as this is an English dictionary and we can't really expect Joe User to know a great deal about French. Purplebackpack89 02:11, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
To be honest, I think most people are familiar with the word noun, but not many understand what a noun is. Renard Migrant (talk) 13:16, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
@Renard Migrant My point was that a helluvalot more English speakers know what a noun is than what the three orders of French verbs are. Sorry if that wasn't clear earlier. Purplebackpack89 22:56, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
Merge into Category:French regular -er verbs both Category:French verbs with conjugation -er and Category:French first group verbs. The latter two names don't sound very good, and "-er verbs" is in fact what they are generally called. --WikiTiki89 00:53, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
What does the third group become? Category:French regular -ir verbs is obvious enough, is the third group Category:French irregular verbs? Renard Migrant (talk) 13:15, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
I think so. The way I was taught, there are regular -er verbs, regular -ir verbs, a small set of regular -re verbs (vendre, rendre, and maybe a dozen others in -dre, plus maybe vaincre), and all other verbs are irregular. The vendre/rendre/etc. verbs are a small group, and it may not be worth making a special group just for them. Benwing2 (talk) 08:26, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
BTW, the page on vendre actually says it belongs to the "regular -re verbs", which are claimed to include verbs in -andre, -endre, -ondre, -erdre and -ordre and the group is said to be "fairly large", so it might be more than a dozen. Benwing2 (talk) 08:30, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:fr-conj-re is useful though there may be more due to {{fr-conj-auto}}. 'Regular' becomes subjective at this point, which is sadly unavoidable. The problem with vaincre is the -que forms which makes it less regular. But does less regular mean irregular? I guess we'll have to go through these on a case-by-case basis, or just leave them uncategorized. Renard Migrant (talk) 18:12, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, at a certain point it become subjective what's regular and not. It doesn't matter much to me where it goes exactly. Benwing2 (talk) 22:52, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Template:archaic synonym of[edit]

This is a failed experiment; it was created years ago but (as I noted in 2014) apparently never saw use in more than a handful of entries. It is redundant to {{lb|foo|archaic}} {{synonym of}}, and was as of this year only used on a single page, ตรีนิศก. - -sche (discuss) 19:28, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

It's too specific and not specific enough. Use {{label}} or {{form of|archaic synonym}}. Delete. Renard Migrant (talk) 13:18, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Template:ja-Common Accent[edit]

Superseded by Template:ja-pron. —suzukaze (tc) 05:16, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Spelling variants in entry names, Wiktionary:Redirections[edit]

Outdated pages. I got everything I wanted from them and created a vote to have WT:EL#Entry name with that information, which passed in November/2015.

I marked them as {{inactive}}, which says: "This page is no longer active. It is being kept for historical interest. No discussion is needed to revive this page; simply remove the {{inactive}} tag and bring it up to date.", but is there any historical interest in keeping them? Sure, Wiktionary:Redirections indicates that in the past we used to have more redirects than now, but we could update User:Dixtosa/Wiktionary:History of the English Wiktionary with that information. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 20:25, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

'Outdated' isn't a deletion rationale per se as you can update pages, this being a wiki and all. The question is really are these pages superseded. Wiktionary:Redirections sounds like a good idea, although I'm surprised how long it is as our 'policy' is pretty simple. Unless it's superseded I'd be tempted to almost start again with that page and make it half the size. Not read the other page. Has that been superseded by anything? Renard Migrant (talk) 12:43, 24 January 2016 (UTC)


Unused template. --Ce mot-ci (talk) 04:05, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Keep, potentially useful. --kc_kennylau (talk) 13:44, 23 January 2016 (UTC)


It was used once in Beer parlour, and I removed that use in diff since I disagree with it. It placed the Beer parlour page to a category like Category:Hashtag/MediawikiHoldsWiktionaryBack; I don't think this is appropriate. --Dan Polansky (talk) 13:30, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

  • Speedy deleted, per WT:DELETE, first reason. --kc_kennylau (talk) 13:37, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
  • Keep as a nice and in a very relatable way to tag discussions. --Dixtosa (talk) 14:19, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
    I don't find it nice or relatable as it's not an actual hashtag. It's ugly and difficult to use. Renard Migrant (talk) 17:44, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
I like the idea. It would be nice to have an easy way to find important old discussions without having to search the archives.
Instead of using categorisation, we could make the template generate an invisible link so that the tagged pages can be found via What Links Here. This should make it more palatable to the people who don’t like hashtags. — Ungoliant (falai) 14:39, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
Keep, I like the idea. Also, the reason for speedy deletion as "complete rubbish" is completely invalid. "Complete rubbish" would have been if the contents had been completely unusable, such as a random string of characters. --WikiTiki89 16:20, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
While I'm unsure about the idea, I think the actual implementation is messy an irritating and it should be kept as it is. Renard Migrant (talk) 11:51, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Criteria for inclusion/Editable[edit]

What exactly is the point of having an editable version of a very badly outdated CFI? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:12, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

I've never really objected to this. Perhaps something like Wiktionary:Sandbox/Criteria for inclusion would be a better title, rather than as a subpage of CFI. Or of course, users are free to make this sort of thing in their own user page as it's on topic. Renard Migrant (talk) 17:24, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
  • I don't really object to deletion, but what I like about the page is that I can always point to the page as a counterargument to all these people who claim that CFI would be so much better if only it were editable without a vote. --Dan Polansky (talk) 17:43, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
    Delete, literally no one edited it since January 2012, unless you count small maintenance stuff like adding language codes to templates and updating broken links. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 13:22, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
Comment: Maybe it would be pertinent to examine the changes made to the pages before deleting them. —suzukaze (tc) 13:39, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Entry layout/Editable[edit]

I'm also nominating this page, for the same reasons as above. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 13:32, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Wiktionary:About Japanese/Draft[edit]

Wiktionary:About Japanese/proposal[edit]

Same reason as Entry layout/Editable. —suzukaze (tc) 13:38, 10 February 2016 (UTC)


Created 10 years ago; currently wholly unused. —suzukaze (tc) 11:09, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Definitely delete. The format is primitive (no script support for Japanese!) and it's redundant to all out templates such as {{ja-l}}, {{ja-noun}} and so on. Renard Migrant (talk) 12:45, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
Delete, obviously. - -sche (discuss) 23:04, 26 January 2016 (UTC)


Unused. —suzukaze (tc) 11:11, 24 January 2016 (UTC)


Not used, and not especially useful. In practice we delete these on sight or fix them if we know how, but I doubt this template has been used in quite a while. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:23, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Yes we used to have a couple of these per month that we're clearly tagged and got either fixed or deleted after a month. So the system worked. That said I have no objection to just outright deleting them as we do now. No strong feelings; I'm a bit biased because it was quite fun trying to find out what language it was written in and how to translate it into English, so I'll stop commenting here. Renard Migrant (talk) 11:46, 26 January 2016 (UTC)


As above; no longer used nor useful, and not likely to be used again. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:26, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

No strong feelings, as per notenglish. Renard Migrant (talk) 11:49, 26 January 2016 (UTC)



Hasn't been used for quite a while, as far as I know. Not unuseful per se, but there isn't much point to it either. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:37, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Delete, by the way it passed RFDO because only two people commented some years ago. It is pointless. Renard Migrant (talk) 18:27, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
I'd make the same argument I'd make then; copyright violations are always deleted. When there's an entry to go back to, we go back to that. Since a red link is better than a blue link to an empty page, there is no scenario where this template should be used. Renard Migrant (talk) 16:39, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
Delete per my comments on Talk:noded. - -sche (discuss) 23:03, 26 January 2016 (UTC)


Not used, and I can't imagine it ever would be. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:42, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Delete. Renard Migrant (talk) 18:28, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
Delete, for the same reasons as the two templates above. - -sche (discuss) 03:41, 27 January 2016 (UTC)


While a vote has passed to replace this with {{m}}, this hasn't been nominated at any point for deletion, though you'd've had thought it had failed a deletion request the way people are talking about it. I think it's pretty darn important that we debate this before we delete it.

So I'll start. I have no preference. I personally use {{m}} but with the advent of module it would be perfectly possibly to have them run off the same module with the same parameters except {{{lang}}} and {{{1}}}, so them becoming out of synch is not inevitable. Renard Migrant (talk) 16:38, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

  • Abstain. I also personally use {{m}} but I feel no urgency to delete {{term}}. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 17:19, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
Too soon. Can I be the only user who takes time to adjust from one template to another? I've typed cx etc. so many times that it's hard to stop. Equinox 17:21, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
No, you are not the only user who has muscle memory that interferes with adopting changes in common templates. That is one reason why such changes should have really compelling advantages, not just tidiness. If voting were in proportion to (the log of) the number of times the voter had used the template in the last three months, many templates would not be deleted. DCDuring TALK 18:21, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
For statistical (?) purposes, I'd like to say: I believe that I was able to adjust immediately from {{term}} to {{m}}, {{context}} to {{lb}}, {{usex}} to {{ux}}. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 10:05, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
  • Delete after a grace period, during which use of {{term}} is still bot-converted to {{m}}, and any use without lang triggers an error. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:06, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
    • This is only possible if we convert uses that are still lacking a language (there's still ten thousand) to another template that accepts this. Otherwise we'll get heaps of module errors. —CodeCat 18:17, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
      • There was an informal vote about this somewhere, right? I fully support moving them over to another template for the interim. Also, I guess I shouldn't be surprised there are ~10,000 instances without a language specified. —JohnC5 19:07, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
  • Keep: Purplebackpack89 20:53, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
  • Keep this before short hugely widespread template and deprecate it; use AbuseFilter to deprecate it on the technical level by preventing saving pages that contain the template if possible or explain why it is not possible. Point: make page histories legible. --Dan Polansky (talk) 13:28, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
  • Keep - Rather than breaking millions of historical revisions with no justification. We can create an editfilter which prevents future usage if that is a concern. - TheDaveRoss 17:13, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Column templates[edit]





Template:Col-5, Template:col-5[edit]

Template:Col-4, Template:col-4[edit]


Unused templates, superseded by {{top5}}, {{mid5}}, etc. --kc_kennylau (talk) 13:57, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
I think you mistakenly put {{col-top}} and {{col-bottom}} in this RFD. They are newer, auto-balancing templates, not superceded by anything. And they certainly are not "unused". --WikiTiki89 17:43, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
Delete all, except for -top and -bottom which seem to still be in use. —suzukaze (tc) 20:56, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
This has got very confusing. The apparently erroneous nomination of col-top and col-bottom has confused the issue. I'd detag them but I don't think I should, Kc kennylau should do it unless he/she think that they weren't tagged in error. Renard Migrant (talk)

Template:nominative singular of, Template:accusative plural of, Template:vocative singular of, etc.[edit]

These templates are currently used to some extent but they are minimal wrappers around {{inflection of}}. The latter is used more commonly and is more flexible. I'm thinking the case-specific templates should be bot-replaced by the appropriate invocation of {{inflection of}}, then orphaned and eventually deleted: e.g.

Benwing2 (talk) 04:04, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

I think if people want to use these they should be allowed to. Not everyone will understand how to use {{inflection of}}, so people might just start just not using a template at all, and just writing it out. As you say bot replacements are very easy, so instead of deleting these, discourage their use (on documentation subpages) and replace them by bot. Renard Migrant (talk) 18:15, 29 January 2016 (UTC)


Apparently this template edited the header of pages like |, but that is the job of MediaWiki:Common.js now. It was replaced by a simple {{DEFAULTSORT}}, as of diff. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 18:05, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

I think this should be reversed. We should rely on JavaScript as little as possible. If it doesn't have to be in JS, it shouldn't be. —CodeCat 18:13, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
I tentatively agree. Javascript is a whole nother can of worms to learn and the MediaWiki extensions don't appear to be well-documented, unlike for Lua. Benwing2 (talk) 22:23, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
Also, the duplication in the title map and reverse title map is bogus; one should be derived from the other. Benwing2 (talk) 22:23, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
It does seem to exist purely for the sake of documentation (you need to go back in its history to msh210's edits to see it), as DEFAULTSORT is a magic word, not a template (like PAGENAME) and magic words don't have documentation subpages. Renard Migrant (talk) 22:52, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

February 2016[edit]

Category:German English[edit]

A category for "German English: terms or senses in English as spoken in Germany"! It's the result of (mis)use of {{lb|en|Germany}} in English entries as if that label indicated that the sense described a German institution ("Germany" in fact categorizes as a dialect label, and the Germanness of an institution should be noted in the definition): GDR, for example, is not limited to "English as spoken in Germany", it's simply a term for a German state. I'm surprised to see that a veteran editor created the category. (I edited the category's 14 former members.) - -sche (discuss) 02:05, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Category:Chilean English (contents: college) is also suspect. - -sche (discuss) 02:51, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
Sorry, I was trying to get rid of red links in Special:WantedCategories and didn't check the pages that used them closely enough. It seems to me at least vaguely plausible that there could be English words specific to the dialect of Germany, e.g. there are plenty of expats living in Germany, some for years on end (soldiers etc.). Benwing2 (talk) 05:48, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
I'm an American who's been living in Germany for 19 years, and although I would say we do an awful lot of code switching (including using pseudoanglicisms like Handy when speaking English), I wouldn't say there are any English words that are specific to the expat community in Germany. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 07:01, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
Well, you could argue that "handy" meaning "cell phone" is a regional German English term, I suppose, depending on how anglicized it becomes. Benwing2 (talk) 07:18, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
Ah, I see. Thanks for trying to clear Special:WantedCategories out. Part of the problem here is that this category was "wanted" in the first place — that people (not you) used "German(y)" inside {{label}} in the belief that {{label}} was for indicating the topic a definition pertained to, which is not quite the case. (That same kind of use of "Iran" is to blame for the category below having been "wanted" by an entry.)
The suggestion made by Chuck at the end of Wiktionary:Grease pit/2015/October#Regional_labels_that_apply_to_more_than_one_language, and by others elsewhere, is worth entertaining: {{bor}}, {{inh}} etc were recently created as more specific templates alongside the existing {{etyl}}; in the same way, perhaps we could keep {{label}} but create another template for topical labels. Downsides (perhaps I should move this comment to the BP) are that it might look dumb to have two kinds of label next to each other, and (especially when there was only one kind present) people might mistake one kind of label for another, and think a term tagged as having the topic "grammar" or "Germany" was limited to grammarians' jargon or German speech. - -sche (discuss) 08:36, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
We've always used labels for topics in two different ways: to specify the context in which a term is used, and to indicate that the term is related to the topic without being restricted in usage. A location label is normally used in the former way, but it's no surprise that people use it the latter way too. We have never set a rule for how labels should be used. Part of the issue is also that other dictionaries generally don't make this distinction, or use labels in the second way. If a user sees "anat. eye" in a definition for oog in a Dutch-English dictionary, they may well do the same thing on Wiktionary. —CodeCat 18:58, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
Speedy delete this and Category:Iranian English as empty categories. If there are any English words specific to German, add them to the category and then it's not empty and should be restored. Renard Migrant (talk) 18:14, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Category:Iranian English[edit]

As above. It may be a good idea to check the regional categories thoroughly to see how many of these were created. - -sche (discuss) 02:08, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Check Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:dialectboiler. There are about 40 pages, almost all of them created by me. You probably have a better understanding than I do of which pages are likely to be suspect. Benwing2 (talk) 07:21, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
{{lb|en|Iran|nocat=1}} ought to do the trick. Renard Migrant (talk) 17:45, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
That only works if there are no other labels that categorize. —CodeCat 00:46, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
Category:Labrador English is a pretty blatant example, as dogs can't talk. Renard Migrant (talk) 18:08, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Template:empty line[edit]

Doesn't look like it is used, also doesn't look like it works if it is used. @DCDuring @Wyang may have thoughts? - TheDaveRoss 17:11, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

My "contribution" was limited to inserting the template for transcluding the missing documentation. I am unable to determine what it does by inspecting the code. DCDuring TALK 20:11, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
It does do something. —suzukaze (tc) 08:22, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
What's it supposed to do, and why? Renard Migrant (talk) 18:14, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
It's transcludedused in other subst'ed templates. It seems to me that the only questions can be about the utility of those other templates, which are designed to be used to create new entries in zh, ko, ne, etc. DCDuring TALK 19:33, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
I still think "What's it supposed to do, and why?" are valid questions. Renard Migrant (talk) 19:42, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
@Aryamanarora, Wyang may have the answers you seek. DCDuring TALK 22:00, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
As User:suzukaze-c said above, it is substituted when some autocreation templates are substituted to generate a new line. Why? Because they were written before Lua and writing modules is time-consuming hard yakka. Wyang (talk) 22:06, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
Why not just use the enter key? Renard Migrant (talk) 22:20, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
It doesn't work as expected. Wyang (talk) 22:24, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
Now we're getting to the issue. Why not, or, what does it actually do? Renard Migrant (talk) 22:25, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
Is it the <includeonly> issue? Just do a null edit if documentation is transcluded in other pages. Also see WT:Grease pit/2016/February if you have no idea what I'm talking about. (I'm not exactly sure why I was pinged; I have no idea how to use this template)Aryamanarora (मुझसे बात करो) 22:19, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
By mistake, I think. Renard Migrant (talk) 22:26, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
I was pinged because I'd edited the page to include {{documentation}}, {Aryamanarora was pinged because he'd edited the template once. DCDuring TALK 00:43, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

lol people are arguing about an empty line. Equinox 13:47, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

I am happy to withdraw the nomination, I just happened upon this and didn't see any usage. The parser error it was causing has been remedied so there is no reason to delete. - TheDaveRoss 13:50, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Template:italbrac and Template:i[edit]

These were left over from the time that this was still a separate template from {{qual}}. They were merged in 2012. I would like to delete these redirects and update pages that use them, so that there is no confusion over the purpose of the template. It's not merely used for bracketed italic text, but for qualification. The focus should be on semantics of the template rather than its presentation/output. —CodeCat 17:50, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

I like the shortness of {{i}}, can we create a similarly short alias of {{qual}}? Benwing2 (talk) 18:11, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
There's already {{q}}. —CodeCat 18:21, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
(oops!) Benwing2 (talk) 18:25, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
  • Delete. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 10:15, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
    While I see no particular urgency to delete these, I've always disliked them so I'd delete them. Renard Migrant (talk) 17:08, 8 February 2016 (UTC)



Added. Both orphaned, not used outside the main namespace even before I orphaned them. Renard Migrant (talk) 13:15, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Category:osx:Grammar, Category:osx:Linguistics[edit]

Empty categories.
Entries which once were in "Category:osx:Grammar" like fadar were not grammatical terms, but just Old Saxon words with grammatical information like a declination table. That is, they did not to belong to that category. -13:27, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

  • Speedied. Can be restored at any time if Old Saxon terms related to grammar and linguistics are added. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 10:14, 8 February 2016 (UTC)


Is this really an appropriate Rhymes category? I compared it to other languages and I can't seem to find an equivalent. There are by the way, several dubious Rhymes categories for Romanian, created by the same user, which might require checking. --Robbie SWE (talk) 17:06, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

It is if the stress is on the first "a" (/...ˈabilitate/). But if the stress is on the second "a" (/...abiliˈtate/), then it ought to be Rhymes:Romanian/ate. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 17:10, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
That's the thing: it isn't. The stress is on the second "a". --Robbie SWE (talk) 17:16, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
I don't know but it looks right (Robbie SWE's nomination I mean). Any audio files for these? Wikimedia or otherwise? Renard Migrant (talk) 18:03, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
None that I'm aware of. Most of them have IPA pronounciation though in the Romanian Wiktionary, but I guess that doesn't help much. --Robbie SWE (talk) 18:13, 12 February 2016 (UTC)