Wiktionary:Requests for deletion/Others

Definition from Wiktionary, the free dictionary
Jump to: navigation, search

Wiktionary > Requests > Requests for deletion/Others

Wiktionary Request pages (edit) see also: discussions
Requests for cleanup
add new | history | archives

Cleanup requests, questions and discussions.

Requests for verification
add new | history | archives | old index

Requests for verification in the form of durably-archived attestations conveying the meaning of the term in question.

Requests for deletion
add new | history | archives

Requests for deletion of pages in the main namespace due to policy violations; also for undeletion requests.

Requests for deletion/Others
add new | history

Requests for deletion of pages in other (not the main) namespaces, such as categories, appendices and templates.

Requests for moves, mergers and splits
add new | history | archives

Moves, mergers and splits; requests listings, questions and discussions.

{{rfc-case}} - {{rfc-trans}} - {{rfdate}} - {{rfd-redundant}} - {{rfdef}} - {{rfe}} - {{rfex}} - {{rfap}} - {{rfp}} - {{rfphoto}} -

All Wiktionary: namespace discussions 1 2 3 4 5 - All discussion pages 1 2 3 4 5
This page is for the nomination (for deletion) of non-main namespace entries. General questions about categories, templates and the like should be posted at Wiktionary:Grease pit. Remember to start each section with only the wikified title of the page being nominated for deletion.
Oldest tagged RFDOs

Contents

June 2013[edit]

Lots of templates by User:Sae1962[edit]

Propose deleting the following:

I don't even know where to begin with this...

  • These templates were meant only for Turkish, but instead they were created as general templates, even though they have no use except for Turkish. They are overly specific, which has necessitated creating many of them. For situations like this, a custom template (or {{inflection of}} or {{conjugation of}}) is highly preferred.
  • Even for Turkish, they're not even correctly named. It seems as if they were just created on a whim without any thought whatsoever.
  • All of these template add entries to their own category. This has flooded Special:WantedCategories with lots of categories that really serve no purpose. Why on earth would all these inflected forms need distinct categories, especially for a highly inflected language like Turkish (where a single noun might have dozens of forms)?
  • Barely any of the templates is categorised. Most of them can't be found through normal means, except by looking through his edits. Because {{documentation}} adds a category when the documentation page is missing, none of these show up on Special:UncategorizedTemplates. I removed that from {{documentation}}, so expect that page to be flooded with all of these soon.
  • Barely documentation about their usage or meaning. Intrusive form? What's that?
  • Putting pronunciation details in usage notes. The "suffix usage notes" template is redundant because that applies to all Turkish suffixes, so it's part of the grammar and should be familiar to anyone who knows basic Turkish. (Leaving aside the fact that it's really vague, and doesn't say what variant forms there are of the suffix!)
  • Some aren't even used on any pages. Some were actually errors that were created, then abandoned, and a replacement was created without deleting the error. Like Template:tr-conjugation which should have been Template:tr-conjunction, but was just left there.
  • This isn't even all of them! There are a lot more templates that he created, but have now been "lost" because they have no categories. Maybe someone should make a list of all the templates he created that have no category?

The newest of these was created only a week or two ago, and there have been other disputes with him in the past over the CFI-validity of a lot of his entries. So I've blocked Sae1962 as a form of "damage control". But what are we going to do to fix this mess... —CodeCat 15:17, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Speedy delete of all templates created by this user, and speedy validation of all entries this user has made. Razorflame 15:57, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
  • Unblock him immediately. If you feel authorized to prevent him from creating templates, ask him on this talk page to no longer create templates or you will block him. Recall WT:BLOCK, a voted policy: "The block tool should only be used to prevent edits that will, directly or indirectly, hinder or harm the progress of the English Wiktionary. It should not be used unless less drastic means of stopping these edits are, by the assessment of the blocking administrator, highly unlikely to succeed.".

    As for the templates, they seem deletion worthy. --Dan Polansky (talk) 16:02, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

In fairness Dan, I think that text supports the block; we've talked to him plenty so there's good reason to think that more talking won't help. Mglovesfun (talk) 18:46, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
This shouldn't be that big of a surprise- see #A Bunch of Inflected-Form Templates, above. I nominated for deletion the nine I new about, but there was only one comment aside from mine and SAE1962's (a Turkish native speaker who argued for deletion) Chuck Entz (talk) 03:02, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
I agree with the block (although I would have given a much broader / more encompassing rationale for it). We have to spend a lot of time cleaning up after this contributor: they create a lot of SOP terms, and terms with incorrect definitions (e.g. am Ende), and they make quite a few of the same formatting mistakes repeatedly, such as tagging things as the wrong language, or sometimes as two different wrong languages, as with WT:BJ#aktiven_galaktischen_Kerns. We could be spending that time on other things... - -sche (discuss) 07:26, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
"less drastic means" have been employed several times in the past with no success. Block should stay. But who has got the time or inclination for such a massive cleanup operation? SemperBlotto (talk) 07:43, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
Template:Seldom or unused Turkish plurals not is an interesting one. It seems to say that all nouns have plurals, if not attested then hypothetical. I suppose it's okay to link to such plurals but not to create them as everything has to meet WT:CFI. Mglovesfun (talk) 20:47, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
I think the most common practice is to create entries for regular formations even if that specific form is not attested. I really doubt whether all of the verb form entries in the various Romance languages actually meet CFI. But we don't have a problem creating entries for them anyway. —CodeCat 20:57, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

For the record, here are the list of templates and [categories TeleComNasSprVen (talk) 19:36, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Template:U:tr:first-person singular kept under that new name (it was previously Template:first-person singular usage notes), since it's a useful (and fairly widely used) template. - -sche (discuss) 13:29, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
Question book magnify2.svg Input needed
This discussion needs further input in order to be successfully closed. Please take a look!

Is anyone still working on this? There are really few left. Keφr 08:46, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

I've renamed Template:U:tr:homograph pronunciation to fit the usual naming scheme for usage-note templates; it seems useful and is used. I've renamed Template:first-person singular possessive of to Template:tr-first-person singular possessive of since it's Turkish-specific, and kept it since it's widely used and there seems to be no effort to orphan it; I've handled the other templates likewise. I've left the old names as redirects, but they can be deleted once orphaned. It would probably make sense to combine several of them at some point in the future and use a parameter to set whether the first-, second- or third-person was meant. - -sche (discuss) 19:10, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
It should still be orphaned eventually because it's badly named and it creates a precedent for having many templates like these when this could be handled much more easily with a template parameter than separate templates. Turkish nouns have 6 possessives (1, 2, 3 singular and plural) but possessives can be applied to both singular and plural, and the possessives themselves can also take case endings. The current name doesn't say which case the form is in (presumably nominative), nor does it say whether it's the possessive of a singular or a plural noun. This is the main reason why these templates were RFDO'd... not enough thought was put into their creation and naming and it made a big haphazard mess. —CodeCat 19:20, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
That seems clear enough, but it is not what I asked. I asked if anyone is still working on this at all. Keφr 15:57, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
I'll work on it. At this point, I think the main thing that needs to be done is put together an RFM on the remaining inflection templates. Here's an updated list of which templates have been deleted, which have been kept because they're useful, and which probably need to be merged into a standard inflection template that would take parameters: - -sche (discuss) 19:08, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
At this point I suggest closing the RFD and moving to an RFM to make a template that the last batch of templates named above could be merged into. - -sche (discuss) 19:13, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
What is wrong with {{inflection of}}? Keφr 19:16, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
There's already a template for this purpose, {{tr-possessive form of}}. —CodeCat 19:20, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Appendix:Proto-Indo-European/bʰago[edit]

Seems to have been reconstructed on the basis of a single branch (Indo-Iranian). Slavic *bagu (*bogъ) is usually considered an Iranian borrowing in the literature. Furthermore it contains phoneme */a/ which is of disputed status in the reconstruction of PIE segments. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 16:19, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

a and o merge in Balto-Slavic, so from the evidence of Slavic alone, *bʰogo- is equally valid. And there's nothing against replacing *bʰ with *b or *g with *gʰ either. So this reconstruction isn't really well founded enough to include it. —CodeCat 16:36, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
They would lengthen by Winter's law which would yield Common Slavic **bagъ. And how you account for aspiration in Sanskrit bh? --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 16:57, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
It's always possible it's not a cognate. The meaning is different enough. —CodeCat 19:30, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
Bahuvrihi adjectives *ubogъ and *nebogъ "poor, miserable" and *bogatъ "rich" prove that *bogъ was originally also an adjective, and that it meant meaning something along "earthly wealth/well-being; fortune" and then "dispenser of wealth/fortune" and then "god". Exactly same thing happened in Iranian which according to some is too much of a coincidence to happen in parallel (hence the borrowing theory, postulated even before WL was discovered which on a more formal level implies the same).
However, I've found out that according to Beekes PIE *bʰ(e)h₂g- (LIV: bʰag-) would be the source of ἔφαγον (éphagon, to eat, devour) as well, but how the meanings match to II and Slavic escapes me. At any case, PIE noun *bʰago(s) "god, deity" seems worthy of deletion, because that meaning arose independently in two different subbranches. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 21:42, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
Question book magnify2.svg Input needed
This discussion needs further input in order to be successfully closed. Please take a look!
  • Delete. Too uncertain for us. We should avoid giving the impression that certain etymological connections have widespread consensus among historical linguists if they don't. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 20:07, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Weak delete: Potential but debatable connections of this type may be better discussed on the pages for the involved Proto-Slavic, Proto-Indo-Iranian and Greek words. --Tropylium (talk) 13:45, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Deleted. bd2412 T 16:38, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

August 2013[edit]

Template:romanization of Hebrew[edit]

This seems like a template that goes back to earlier days, when multilingual support wasn't as neatly standardised as it is nowadays, and editors for each language had to make up their own things. I don't think it's really needed anymore. —CodeCat 23:58, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Unless I'm missing something, delete. Mglovesfun (talk) 07:48, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
Well, ACCEL still relies on this template, AFAIK. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 19:09, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
Which is an argument for updating it, right? And deleting this when it's safe to do so. Mglovesfun (talk) 21:48, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
Most of these entries are left over from mistakes made during the orphaning of {{he-link}}. I think we should fix them, and once this is orphaned we should delete it; however, for the record, I think we should not bot-orphan this in the obvious way. The template is useful for finding the entries to fix, and a bot should be used only if it will really fix them. —RuakhTALK 07:19, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
FWIW, there are 76 main-namespace uses of this tmeplate which remain to be addressed. - -sche (discuss) 13:33, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Template:ro-past[edit]

I notice that since this edit in 2008, the template automatically adds the entry to Category:Romanian terms needing attention. Presumably because it doesn't have a function not already covered by {{past participle of}}. Mglovesfun (talk) 13:50, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

I've changed it to add the entry to Category:Romanian entries using Template:ro-past instead, since there were a lot of these; they made up more than 75% of the entries in Category:Romanian terms needing attention. —RuakhTALK 07:10, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
Although it's clearly intended to be a headword template, some entries use it as a form-of template. —RuakhTALK 07:12, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

September 2013[edit]

Template:list:moons of Mars/en[edit]

A template for a two-item list. Looks like overkill to me. — Ungoliant (Falai) 00:10, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Delete. Mglovesfun (talk) 02:49, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
Why aren't we using the Appendix: namespace for lists like these? Pages there can still be transcluded, if that's why templates were being used. - dcljr (talk) 03:04, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
Because these aren't intended to be appendices. Not sure what else to say, it's a bit like asking why the entry house isn't Appendix:house. Mglovesfun (talk) 22:17, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
Not really. More like asking why {{types of houses}} isn't at Appendix:Houses. In any case, now that I've looked through the list of "list:" templates more carefully, I guess I see the difference. Still, there is potentially much overlap in the kinds of topics covered by the two methods... (And note, BTW, that some "appendices" are in fact simply bare lists, as well.) - dcljr (talk) 00:26, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
One notable example of the "overlap" I was referring to: Appendix:Days of the week vs. Template:list:days of the week/*. - dcljr (talk) 00:41, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
Because it's intended to function as a template, so the template namespace is somewhat unsurprisingly the best choice. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:55, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
How about Wikisaurus:building#Hyponyms? Keφr 14:51, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
Delete. Overkill indeed. Keφr 14:51, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
Merge with {{list:moons of Earth/en}}, {{list:moons of Jupiter/en}} etc. thru {{list:moons of Eris/en}}, which seems to be a whole family of templates in use at satellite, and which could with some tweaking probably be also employed for lists of coordinate terms for entries on names of moons. --Tropylium (talk) 20:12, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Delete. This list is not gonna increase.--Dixtosa (talk) 18:57, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

October 2013[edit]

Template:nn-decl-noun-m1[edit]

Any ideas? --ElisaVan (talk) 10:43, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Whatlinkshere has some, but I don't understand them.​—msh210 (talk) 18:41, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
ElisaVan withdrew this on 2013-11-26, but this template is unused and redundant to Template:nn-noun-m1, and this request is not fully closed, so I am requesting comments.--Jusjih (talk) 02:51, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

December 2013[edit]

Template:ko-form of[edit]

We don't really need it anymore, we can use {{form of}}. —CodeCat 18:23, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

The italicisation isn't an issue because {{form of}} only italicises the English. The bolding debatably is. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:57, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
That is done by CSS, not by the template. —CodeCat 14:30, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
It's bold by default though, or else why would I be seeing it as bold? Mglovesfun (talk) 15:07, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Template:place:Brazil[edit]

Tagged but not listed. I don't know what this is for, we already have {{accent:Brazil}} so it's not that. Documentation is empty too. Mglovesfun (talk) 15:05, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Apparently for {{place}} (abandoned project?). — Ungoliant (falai) 23:54, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
I think it may have been created as a context label type template, so that we can distinguish terms used in Brazil from terms related to Brazil. Our current labels don't distinguish these, and place names are normally considered dialect specifiers rather than topical labels. So if we ever wanted a label to specify "when talking about (place)", we'd have to devise a workaround. —CodeCat 23:59, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
The documentation says it’s for definitions of placenames. — Ungoliant (falai) 00:18, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Module:arguments[edit]

Along with Module:math. Imported by User:Mxn for the sake of having a two-line rounding function (which does not even depend on most of this code) for his archive navigation module. I doubt we will ever need this in the dictionary proper. Not nominating Module:yesno, but we seem to have managed without it until now, so it might go as well. Keφr 14:04, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

I'm inclined to say keep, but remove what we don't really need. I think it would be nice to be able to avoid the constant "if x == "" then x = nil end" on all parameters, it does get tedious. I've thought of writing a module like this before. There's also something else I've wanted to add, which is checking arguments for usage, and a global category tracking system.
Checking arguments for usage would mean that each argument that gets used by the module is marked "used", and at the end if any arguments remain unused, this adds a category or error or something like that. That would allow us to find out easily which pages are using modules with mis-typed parameter names, or parameters that aren't actually recognised or supported by the template.
Tracking categories globally would make it much easier for any module to add tracking categories and such. In templates, you can just put a category anywhere and it works, but in modules you can't do that, which is a limitation. —CodeCat 14:21, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
I cannot imagine why we would ever write something that would require Module:math. It mostly wraps basic mathematical functions so that templates can use them: we would probably do most of the work inside modules, making the wrappers unnecessary.
As for Module:arguments… I am unsure what that thing actually does. Looks like some kind of input sanitisation. For now I would prefer to do it directly in the modules which receive a frame. I actually do have one idea for a module for tracking argument usage, categories and errors, but this module would not be of much help there. Keφr 18:38, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
Some at the WMF apparently want to integrate this… thing into Scribunto. Either way, we need not keep it here. Keφr 11:11, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
Question book magnify2.svg Input needed
This discussion needs further input in order to be successfully closed. Please take a look!

Neither of the nominated modules has found any use in more than a year. CodeCat, your stance now? Keφr 18:30, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

I think it might as well be deleted. I am considering making a module that fulfills a similar purpose, but I'd be rewriting it from scratch. —CodeCat 18:32, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

January 2014[edit]

Template:abbr[edit]

Template:c.[edit]

Template:circa3[edit]

Created last November, but never used since then it seems. —CodeCat 23:30, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Kept while used with no consensus to delete.--Jusjih (talk) 02:54, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
I've unstruck Template:c.; the distinctive feature of it as opposed to e.g. Template:circa is that Template:c. does not mark the abbreviation or wikilink it to explain what it is. Wiktionary is WT:NOTPAPER, using such abbreviations in the first place is questionable, but intentionally being opaque about them is asinine. I'm going to redirect it to Template:circa. - -sche (discuss) 01:01, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
The remaining two templates have only three transclusions combined now. We might as well orphan them altogether? —CodeCat 01:08, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
Oh, I hadn't noticed how little-used Template:circa3 was. It should certainly be orphaned in favour of the regular Template:circa. Template:abbr, in contrast, looks like it could perhaps be useful...or do we already have a template that does what it does? - -sche (discuss) 01:16, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
...although, one could just use a combination of (a) spelling abbreviations out and (b) wikilinking them to Wiktionary and WP entries. - -sche (discuss) 19:18, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
Template:c. has now been redirected, and Template:circa3 has been deleted. - -sche (discuss) 00:46, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Appendix:Latin suffixes[edit]

This doesn't add anything beyond Category:Latin suffixes. —CodeCat 18:47, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Not correct. It shows that there are some Latin inflectional endings that we have and some that we lack.
  • Keep or use before deleting. If we delete all of the Latin inflectional endings, then we should probably use use to start the Latin inflectional endings appendix. DCDuring TALK 19:30, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Inflectional endings aren't suffixes, though, and shouldn't be in either this Appendix or the identically named Category. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 09:42, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
Keep, though it needs a lot of work. Many Latin suffixes have extended forms (e.g. -lus-ulus-culus-unculus); such an appendix could explain such proliferation. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 21:51, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Category:English metaphors[edit]

Delete. This is largely superflous to Category:English idioms, IMHO. Currently has 7 entries: angels dancing on the head of a pin, bite, fox in the henhouse, god, one's marbles, piss more than one drinks, raised by wolves. --Dan Polansky (talk) 07:19, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Category:English live metaphors[edit]

I think this is also relevant, so might as well add. TeleComNasSprVen (talk) 07:49, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Delete Category:English live metaphors as well. --Dan Polansky (talk) 07:51, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

{{hangulization of}}[edit]

I suggest to move {{hangulization of}} to normal {{etyl}}. Hangulization is not a very common term, Korean loanwords are no different from others, Hangeul is the only current writing system in both Koreas (with occasional Hanja) and Cyrillic based loanwords are not called "cyrillization of", we don't have arabization, katakanization, etc.

The spelling "hangul" is based on McCune–Reischauer romanisation of 한글 (hangeul) "hangŭl", the official spelling in South Korea is "hangeul", so is the more modern spelling. North Korea uses the term "Chosŏn'gŭl" - 조선글 (joseongeul). --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 03:59, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, but "Hangul" is by far the more common spelling in English. But either way, I agree the template should be deleted. (This is more of an WT:RFDO thing, but I personally don't really care which page the discussion is on.) --WikiTiki89 04:02, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
OK, I moved the page here, since it's not simply a deletion, {{hangulization of}} should be orphaned first. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 05:45, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
Well it is simply a deletion. We always orphan templates before deleting them. It's not a move, because we're not moving the template. --WikiTiki89 08:24, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Template:imperative of[edit]

An old Sae1962 creation. This template is redundant to {{conjugation of|...||imp|lang=xyz}}, and it categorizes forms into "Category:Foobar imperative forms" even though no such category exists for any language (even Category:Imperative forms by language doesn't exist). It's utterly unnecessary. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 18:13, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

It's also used for Danish, Swedish and Norwegian. It's not really necessary, but then again we also have many other form-of templates, some very common like {{plural of}} or {{feminine of}}, that could also be "converted" into {{inflection of}}. So the question is really if we want to do that. —CodeCat 18:21, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
Keep: Well, typing {{imperative of|keep|lang=en}} is easier or typing {{conjugation of|keep||imp|lang=en}} is easier? If they have the same function, isn't it better to type less? --kc_kennylau (talk) 09:17, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
Only if the template is edited so that it doesn't automatically sort things into nonexistent and unwanted categories. Also, a large number of languages (though not English) distinguish between singular and plural imperative forms, and many also have 1st and 3rd person imperatives in addition to 2nd person imperatives, and this template doesn't accommodate any of that. It just labels things "imperative" without specifying person and number. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 11:17, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
I agree with that, but it's likely that removing the category will orphan many entries. We'd have to make sure that all of them add a part-of speech category through some other means first, like with {{plural of}}. —CodeCat 19:53, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
Why don't we just have it redirect to {{conjugation of|...||imp|...}}? (I don't mean a hard redirect, but just have {{imperative of}} call {{conjugation of}}.) --WikiTiki89 16:03, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
There's not much benefit in that over just having it call Module:form of directly and tell it to display "imperative". —CodeCat 16:05, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
The benefit would be if we ever change how {{conjugation of}} categorizes, then we won't have to also change {{imperative of}}. --WikiTiki89 16:21, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
Still doesn't solve the problem of the template's not specifying which imperative form the term is. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 17:12, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
Actually, it does solve that problem. If you do this the right way, {{imperative of}} will support any arguments that {{conjugation of}} supports. --WikiTiki89 17:26, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Keφr 12:11, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

  • Closed as keep: No consensus to delete after one year of discussion. Purplebackpack89 15:03, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

February 2014[edit]

Template:cy-mut-none[edit]

This mutation template for Welsh shows that nothing happens. That's right, every cell just displays unchanged. Angr (talkcontribs) and I have agreed that it can go. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 02:58, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

I think the information that a word does not mutate needs to be conveyed somehow; simple absence of a mutation table is far too ambiguous (considering that it is also what results from someone neglecting to add a table). Of course, a table that displays "unchanged" in all its fields is an unnecessarily bulky way of conveying that information... what if all the entries that currently use it were modified to have a templatised usage note "This term does not mutate" or an even shorter comment on the headword line, "does not mutate"? - -sche (discuss) 03:41, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
Why should that be given, though? It's predictable — certain initial consonants just don't have mutated forms. And if someone doesn't know that, then our mutation tables in general will be useless to them, because they won't know what the mutations entail and when to use them, which is fairly complex. So it's not like people are going to be misled by removing these, because only people who can be expected to already understand this fact will even look at mutation tables and comprehend them. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:48, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
On further reflection, this template may be useful for unmutatable loanwords and proper nouns that begin with sounds that are normally mutatable. Cdhaptomos, a native speaker who unfortunately seems to have left the project, added it to albwm and its plural albymau presumably to show that these words do not have aspirate-mutation forms *halbwm and *halbymau, and it could be used at, say, Manceinion to show that that word does not have a soft-mutation form *Fanceinion. On the other hand, it may need to be made more flexible since some loanwords like gêm are immune to soft mutation but not to nasal mutation. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 13:56, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
See also the previous discussion at Template talk:cy-mut-o. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 13:57, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
For indeclinable nouns in Russian (such as пианино (pianino)) and probably many other languages, we just display (indeclinable) in the headword line and omit the declension table. A declension table would be silly for indeclinable nouns. Why can't we do a similar thing here? --WikiTiki89 17:28, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
Because mutation is not a form of declension. It's a grammaticalised sandhi effect and it depends on the preceding word, not the current one. Any word at all can be mutated if there is a mutation-triggering word before it. —CodeCat 17:55, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
Then maybe I misunderstood something. I thought this discussion was about how to handle words that don't mutate. --WikiTiki89 18:02, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
There are words that don't mutate even when there is a mutation-triggering word in front of them. Sometimes this is natural (the initial consonant of the word just has no distinct mutated form) but it can also be lexical (the word just doesn't happen to mutate, even if its first consonant has a mutated form in other words beginning with it). But this is complicated further in that there are several types of mutation, where different preceding words can trigger different types. Irish for example has leniting (aka aspirating/soft) mutation and nasalising mutation on its nouns, as well as more limited types of mutation like the t-mutation that's only triggered by the definite article. It's entirely possible that a specific noun could allow only some of these types of mutation but not others. So it is still necessary to be able to show "does not mutate" in some of the table cells in those cases. And at that point it's more consistent if we just use a table regardless. —CodeCat 18:14, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
I still don't see how this would be different from displaying a declension table with the same form for all cases, just to be consistent. --WikiTiki89 18:23, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
I don't disagree with that idea either, to be honest. —CodeCat 18:25, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

March 2014[edit]

Template:hot sense[edit]

I disagree with this. Let this thing created on 6 March 2014‎ be deleted unless there is consensus to keep it: no consensus => status quo ante. --Dan Polansky (talk) 20:33, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

There was a large amount of consensus for it and very little opposition at the BP discussion. --WikiTiki89 20:40, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
Keep: Also, no consensus defaults to keep, Dan, so you can't really demand that no consensus default to delete for this particular article Purplebackpack89 (Notes Taken) (Locker)
  • RFDO kept: no consensus for deletion. --Dan Polansky (talk) 11:10, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Template:substub[edit]

I have never seen this template used to any good effect. Mostly it is used in entries that are speedily deleted. SemperBlotto (talk) 11:21, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

  • Delete. --Dan Polansky (talk) 15:09, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
  • Ditto. Delete. Keφr 16:26, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
    • Changing my mind. It at least allows us to find useless pages quickly. What will be the replacement for Category:Section stubs? Keφr 15:53, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Is the RfD for the redirect or both the redirect and the redirect target? DCDuring TALK 16:45, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Template:sectstub[edit]

For the sake of clarity, delete; see also #substub above. --Dan Polansky (talk) 16:50, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

  • Yes, delete this as well, but note:- it is used in some "new en" templates. SemperBlotto (talk) 17:29, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Template:en-ing form of[edit]

Delete this template. It purports to treat verb and noun behaviors of the likes of ploughing (see also Talk:ploughing) under one definition line, which would probably be placed under Verb heading. --Dan Polansky (talk) 20:43, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

It is, for now, a simple demonstration of an alternative presentation, used to illustrate a discussion of WT:RFD#waxing. Though deleted from waxing, it is still available for its intended use in the discussion in the former version and should remain at until the later of termination of that discussion and a successful RfDO.
Keep. DCDuring TALK 20:55, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
You can use your user page for demonstration purposes. To demonstrate a proposed format of certain kind of entries, there was absolutely no need to create a template and place it to a discussed entry. Alternatively, you could have placed a demonstration of proposed formatting directly into the discussion, a thing very easy and straightforward to do. You can still do it. This template is unneeded and should be deleted. --Dan Polansky (talk) 08:38, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

April 2014[edit]

Wiktionary:WikiProject Check Wikipedia/Translation[edit]

I have no idea what this is. SemperBlotto (talk) 07:02, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

See User talk:Bgwhite. I am somethat less enthusiastic about it than User:Bgwhite, it probably should have been advertised on WT:GP/WT:BP and the page's name is somewhat unfortunate, but otherwise keep this. Keφr 15:44, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Category:English noun forms[edit]

I removed all the non-English ones (mostly Volapük) and then moved all the English plurals to Category:English plurals and lo and behold it's empty. I think it was once a parent category for Category:English plurals but now it isn't. So delete, or keep as a parent category only and create a {{parent category}} template. Renard Migrant (talk) 19:03, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

I proposed some time ago that Category:English plurals should be moved to Category:English noun plural forms. We don't need two different categories for noun plurals, after all. Are there any other noun forms in English, perhaps archaic case forms that are no longer in use? —CodeCat 19:07, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
The only other form is the possessive, which is now more of a morpheme than a case. --WikiTiki89 19:09, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
But is it possible that we can cite other noun forms in old texts, like Shakespeare for example? —CodeCat 19:14, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
No, because they disappeared phonologically. The last remnants were the presence or lack of a final schwa and by Shakespeare's time it was already entirely silent. --WikiTiki89 19:20, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
Well in any case, I still think this should be kept as a parent category for Category:English noun plural forms. Or we could place the plurals straight in Category:English noun forms, if those are the only noun forms that exist anyway. —CodeCat 20:20, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
Category:English noun plural forms wasn't a very popular idea, pure and simple. Nor was moving Category:English plurals to Category:English noun forms. I doubt the consensus has changed, but feel free to give it a go. Renard Migrant (talk) 20:44, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
Convert to {{parent-only}}. Renard Migrant (talk) 12:49, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Category:WC and its language subcategories[edit]

We already have Wikisaurus:toilet with just about the same content. Anything in it can also either go in the parent category Category:Rooms or the subcategory Category:Toiletry. --WikiTiki89 23:23, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

I agree. —CodeCat 23:44, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

More superfluous grc templates[edit]

While I'm on the subject of introducing reforms into the grc system, I've noticed these templates:

They are meant for nouns with properispomenal accent, but they are not only functionally identical but in fact identical in coding (except in the cases where the prp templates have not been updated) to the corresponding prx templates.

I therefore propose that the first seven of these be orphaned and deleted, their transcluders to use instead the prx templates, and the last be moved to {{grc-decl-3rd-weak-υ-prx}}. (If this constitutes more accurately an RfM, I'll move it there.) ObsequiousNewt (ἔβαζα|ἐτλέλεσα) 14:32, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Delete Seems reasonable to me. We actually considered doing this ever so long ago, and didn't. At this point I feel rather more confident in stating that it should work just fine, and cut down on some rarely used (and thus typically poorly maintained) templates. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 03:07, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
Wow, that's a hell of a long time ago. --WikiTiki89 03:10, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
@ObsequiousNewt: By the time I got to them, {{grc-decl-1st-ala-prp}} already had no transclusions; I've orphaned {{grc-decl-1st-ets-prp}} and {{grc-decl-3rd-N-ln-prp}}, so those three templates can now be deleted. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 21:11, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
@ObsequiousNewt: I've just moved {{grc-decl-3rd-weak-υ-prp}} to {{grc-decl-3rd-weak-υ-prx}} and changed the two transclusions thereof to use the template with the -prx spelling, so {{grc-decl-3rd-weak-υ-prp}} can also now be deleted. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 21:15, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

At this point I would close it as "delete", but it needs to be orphaned first. Notifying participants: ObsequiousNewt, Atelaes, Wikitiki89 and Acronym. Keφr 17:40, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

@ObsequiousNewt: I've just finished orphaning {{grc-decl-3rd-dn-prp}}, so that one may now be deleted. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 00:32, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
@ObsequiousNewt, I'm so meta even this acronym: Orphaning by bot and deleting. --kc_kennylau (talk) 04:49, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
@ObsequiousNewt, I'm so meta even this acronym: Orphaned by bot and deleted. --kc_kennylau (talk) 04:54, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

All templates now deleted; header stricken. Archive to deleted templates' talk pages? — I.S.M.E.T.A. 14:58, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

May 2014[edit]

Template:fr-verb-form[edit]

This is just a shortcut to {{head|fr|verb form}}. It has no functionality that {{head|fr|verb form}} does not. It never has, as far as I know, either. Italian gets by fine on {{head|it|verb form}} why can't French too. The 'good news' is that it just doesn't matter whether we keep or delete this or not; it is identical to {{head|fr|verb form}}. Renard Migrant (talk) 12:57, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Looks like many languages create such shortcut also. --kc_kennylau (talk) 13:00, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
Yes but careful. Some of them have parameters that head doesn't. Just French isn't one of them. Renard Migrant (talk) 13:06, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
@Circeus, Connel MacKenzie, Mglovesfun, Yair rand, Metaknowledge: Pinging the authors of this template. --kc_kennylau (talk) 13:09, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Template:Move to Wikiquote[edit]

Template:Move to Wikisource[edit]

Template:Move to Wiktionary[edit]

Template:dicdef[edit]

a redirect to the previous

Template:Move to wiktionary[edit]

another redirect

The first two still have the "If the page can be expanded into an encyclopedic article," verbiage that shows their Wikipedia origins. The third is just a soft redirect to the Wikipedia template of that name.

Do we really need any of these? Sure, interwikis will have links to some of them, but why is a dummy template any better than a redlink? Chuck Entz (talk) 02:07, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

I agree that the last three are useless and I have deleted them. I also deleted the "move to Wikisource" template because, even though we could theoretically want to move something to Wikisource, it seems like we never actually have had occasion to in all our years of existence, and I don't know if Wikisource can even transwiki from us, anyway. The first template should perhaps also be deleted (especially if Wikiquote can't transwiki from us, or if, as I suspect, it would be unnecessary for them to ever do so because they can just create their own articles from scratch), but we have at least had occasion to delete things as "better suited to Wikiquote" before, e.g. Talk:culona inchiavabile and Talk:it's the economy, stupid and Talk:ἕν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα, heh. - -sche (discuss) 17:48, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Template:audio-pron-dev[edit]

Not used anywhere. Seems to be an experiment that was abandoned. —CodeCat 18:03, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Template:definite and plural of[edit]

This was just created. But given the wild growth of form-of templates for any random combination of inflections that we had in the past, I'm very reluctant to keep this template. —CodeCat 21:10, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Probably means definite singular and plural form of [adjective], if it's used for Danish or Norwegian. I usually list them separately, on two lines. Donnanz (talk) 21:41, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
The wording used is far too vague anyway. Donnanz (talk) 09:39, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
  • Delete. Put it on two lines. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 13:27, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
  • Keep: If it can be used in multiple places, best to have it Purplebackpack89 (Notes Taken) (Locker) 15:46, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
    @Purplebackpack89: Care to clarify? Why should the template be used instead of what is currently being done at engelske? --Dan Polansky (talk) 16:04, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
    Conversely, why doesn't engelske consolidate things into a single definition? And why can't users have the option of choosing between multiple templates? And why are we so quick to delete templates that being are used? Purplebackpack89 (Notes Taken) (Locker) 17:51, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
    Because usage alone doesn't determine how desirable a template is. —CodeCat 18:09, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
Delete per Angr. - -sche (discuss) 17:21, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
Keep. This is very important for the Danish language. If you delete it, all my work on this adjective form will be deleted. Are you guys kidding me? Ready Steady Yeti (talk) 16:17, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
Delete and put on two lines. Two different definitions, two lines. Renard Migrant (talk) 16:21, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
@Ready Steady Yeti no need to 'delete' anything, just modify by bot and put onto two lines. This is a wiki; everything is constantly being reviewed! Renard Migrant (talk) 16:22, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
Do NOT delete. I know there is already a way to say "definite and plural of" with another template but trust me, it's much more complicated, and I need that template, so don't delete TEMPLATES, why would you delete useful templates? Keeping this template will help the project in the Danish language field. If you still think this should be deleted then how should I make an alternative, because there was no other way to do this before, and there are thousands of Danish adjectives that have no definite and plural form entries, but are still listed on their head templates. Please do not delete, either that or make another easy alternative.
I understand everything is constantly being reviewed. But this must not be deleted. Every Danish adjective form has a definite and plural form so it would be useless to make two separate lines. Ready Steady Yeti (talk) 16:28, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
And how often do they coincide? Is it on the order of magnitude of English "-ed" forms (where passive participle coincides with past tense)? Keφr 16:32, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
I think you're spot on when you say "I need that template". You're thinking about what's best for you, not what's best for the wiki. Renard Migrant (talk) 16:39, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
And even for English, the template is language-specific: {{en-past of}}. —CodeCat 17:05, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
You realise of course that this argument can be turned on you by suggesting a rename of the nominated template to {{da-definite and plural of}}. Keφr 17:13, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
Yes, and I would be ok with that, although in that case the wording still isn't ideal, because it still underspecifies what is meant. —CodeCat 17:21, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
As I said above, the wording is far too vague. If this template were to be kept, it should read "definite singular and plural form of". The same applies in Norwegian and maybe Swedish, but I always split it in Norwegian into two lines, and will probably continue to do so in Danish. I suspect a short cut is being looked for here. Donnanz (talk) 17:32, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
Is the plural also definite, or only the singular? —CodeCat 17:41, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
The plural form can be either definite or indefinite. The spelling varies when used in singular form, depending on the gender of the noun the adjective is used with, or whether it's used in definite form. The definite singular and plural form always have the same spelling, with very few exceptions. But there are also indeclinable adjectives, which don't vary in spelling, no matter what. They're the easiest ones to deal with. Donnanz (talk) 18:17, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
I'm sorry I'm a very wrong human being that should never have existed. I'm extremely abnormal.

Anyhow, I think Template:da-definite and plural of is acceptable. I do want what is best for the wiki. That's why I'm here. Sorry, sometimes I get hyper like this. I'm pretty sure that all Danish adjectives that have one form with the suffix -e (which most do), they all are definite and plural so my argument is there's no point in making two separate lines.

I really was planning to apply for sysop privileges here in like 3 or 4 years but it doesn't look like I'm at a good start right now. I hope I can get better at this. I really, I promise, I want to help this website change the world of words and language. You can quote me on that. Ready Steady Yeti (talk) 22:47, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

June 2014[edit]

Template:en-past of[edit]

Per WT:RFDO#Template:definite and plural of. This is the same principle, just the template is more widely used. Two definitions, two lines. Not combined onto one line.

It would be very easy to replace this by bot. Quick, no; easy, yes. Renard Migrant (talk) 16:25, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Keep. Common practice for language-specific templates is very different from general ones. Language-specific templates can and should cater to the specific needs of that one language, that's why we have them. —CodeCat 17:07, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
KEEP per me too. Ready Steady Yeti (talk) 01:54, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

All "transliterations of (family) languages terms" type categories[edit]

This means Category:English transliterations of Slavic languages terms and so on, which are maintained by {{translitcatboiler}}. This category was created by User:Kc kennylau and based on {{derivcatboiler}} but it seems like a bit of cargo cult programming, as a lot of the additional code for handling language family categories from that template was copied over without much regard for whether it was needed. I don't think these categories are useful at all. What is significant about transliterating a term from a Slavic language? It's not nearly as significant as a term derived from a Slavic language. —CodeCat 18:08, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Substantial cleanup is needed if these are kept: several of them contain themselves (e.g. Category:English transliterations of East Slavic languages terms); they're also not fluently named (it would be better to say "English transliterations of East Slavic language terms" or "English transliterations of terms from East Slavic languages"). They also seem to not cover, or to be poised to misleadingly label, terms transliterated according to language-nonspecific schemes like ISO 9. - -sche (discuss) 19:07, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
Terms shouldn’t be defined as “a transliteration” of something. Somebody is confusing meaning and form. A term may have several spellings, and some of these spellings may correspond to transliterations, or transcriptions, or both, or neither. (“Transliteration” probably doesn’t belong in an etymology either, without documentation of a specific first use.) Michael Z. 2014-07-01 15:17 z

Template:User en-us-N[edit]

Template:User en-uk-N, Template:User en-uk-4[edit]

Category:User en-us-N, Category:User en-us, Category:User en-uk-N, Category:User en-uk[edit]

I think we should not encourage this sort of hair-splitting in Babel boxes. English is English, if a user has something to say about their particular idiolect, they should probably do it in prose, because I doubt that differences between dialects can be meaningfully captured by pigeonholing them into a simplistic "British or American" dichotomy. I doubt any speaker actually speaks "pure" British or "pure" American dialect. And it does not even cover all "native" varieties of English.

In other words, this is not very useful, it makes browsing categories harder, it is a maintenance burden and a fodder for nationalistic splinters, which we generally tend to discourage. (Well, except in the logo.) Keφr 13:04, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Also, a stupid typo I see on one of the templates.
"These users are native speakers of British English." Ready Steady Yeti (talk) 21:15, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
I have changed "these users..." to "this user..." to match the rest. Equinox 19:59, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
Probably delete: I agree that this seems to reflect a them-and-us false dichotomy between UK and US. Equinox 19:59, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
Also, the other templates are bad. They word it incorrectly. "This user speaks English (American)" instead of "This user speaks American English at a native level." Rædi Stædi Yæti {-skriv til mig-} 20:45, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Keep: So Kephir gets to decide what users get to call themselves now? The only reason a userbox should be deleted is if it is offensive. This isn't offensive, so keep it. Purplebackpack89 03:15, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
    • The very existence of this discussion contradicts your childish personal remark. I would have just speedied it if I thought so. A userbox should be deleted if it is not expressly allowed by WT:USER, so not only because it is offensive. Also, offensive to whom? Nationalism offends me.
    Is that supposed to anger me or what? It fails. But if you want to spend your time here attempting to aggravate everyone who disagrees with you, as you have been doing pretty much all the time in recent months, we have tools to address that. Keφr 06:16, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
I vehemently disagree with the user guidelines. I think users should be allowed to post whatever they damn well please in their user pages, including non-Babel userboxes. And just because you don't like that I voted keep on something you want deleted is not reason enough to block me, sorry. Purplebackpack89 14:02, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
I have no problem with people disagreeing with me. I think your disagreement has little merit, but whatever. You voted "keep", fine. You are bloody entitled to do so. I do have a problem with turning every dispute into "this-and-that user acts purely on their whim and is evil" and a "ha ha ha, you can't block me you stupid admins" attitude. Though frankly, given your track record at w:simple:, I doubt you can understand any of that. End of topic. Keφr 15:04, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
Look, it seems to me that there are some things on this project that are motivated by personal likes and dislikes rather than actually being a good idea. Your silly little block proposal last month was one of those. Not having userboxes is another. Is having a bunch of non-language-related user boxes detrimental in any way to Wiktionary? No! So let users have all the userboxes they want! And, even under the present guidelines, there's not really a policy basis for deleting this. It appears that a significant portion of this nominated was that seeing this template used struck a discordant note with you. Purplebackpack89 17:17, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
(Surprisingly) I agree with Purplebackpack89: keep templates (not necessarily the categories). People should be able to use whatever Babel boxes they want, even if they want to say they speak Serbian rather than Serbo-Croatian. --WikiTiki89 14:23, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
Keep templates, but delete categories. (And have the templates function as duplicates of {{User en}} etc.) The former allow people to identify as they prefer, which should be acceptable as long as it does not delve into obfuscation; the latter are for organizatory purposes such as being able to find people speaking a given language, and should not be fragmented into units smaller than languages. (Something along the lines of w:Template:User_Mixed_English might be handy too.) --Tropylium (talk) 20:04, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Weak keep, unless someone knows a better way to categorise users by dialect (the Serbian/Croatian example WikiTiki89 gives is a good example of one case where it might be useful, and I can also imagine that there are times when it would be helpful to find e.g. Swiss German speakers or Brazilian Portuguese speakers). I can see a degree of value in these templates, even if UK/US is a false dichotomy. A fair few "I've never heard of this" RFVs/RFDs end up being about terms that are simply only used on one side of the Atlantic. However, these templates should automatically categorise people into Category:User en as well as Category:User en-uk, and Category:User en-uk-N, Category:User en-us-N‎ and Category:User en-uk-4 are simply meaningless (what's a "near-native" British English speaker?) and should be deleted. Smurrayinchester (talk) 08:50, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
    • A near-native British English speaker is someone who speaks British English at a near-native level. —CodeCat 12:41, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
Keep templates and categories. Add some more for English varieties like ANZ, Indian, etc. That they would have few members would seem to make them more valuable, not less. DCDuring TALK 13:36, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
How much granularity do we want? Should/do we have a template for AAVE? Northeast New South Wales? Lancashire? Weak delete. If kept, these should feed into the standard language categories (e.g. "Serbian" should put users into the "Serbo-Croatian" category, "British English" into the "English" category, etc), regardless of whether or not they also put users into subcategories like Category:User en-uk. - -sche (discuss) 01:57, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

July 2014[edit]

Unused usage note templates[edit]

As I was standardizing the naming of these, I noticed that they weren't used anywhere. So, should we start using them in entries, or delete them? - -sche (discuss) 03:57, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Template:U:ca:cardinal numbers[edit]

- -sche (discuss) 03:57, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

I've asked Vriullop and the template's creator for input. - -sche (discuss) 21:08, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
Cardinal numbers as adjectives include gender and inflection, so it is not necessary. For cardinal numbers as nouns it may be usefull from 1 to 12 to indicate femenine use in time expressions.--Vriullop (talk) 09:30, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
Kept to be deployed to the entries 1-12 and cent. Can be shortened if necessary. - -sche (discuss) 02:14, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Template:U:ca:large numbers[edit]

- -sche (discuss) 03:57, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

I've asked Vriullop and the template's creator for input. - -sche (discuss) 21:08, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
Only usefull for million and larger numbers. It could be shortened. --Vriullop (talk) 09:34, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
Kept accordingly. I will shorten it and deploy it to milió, etc. - -sche (discuss) 01:59, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Template:U:nl:obsolete spelling[edit]

- -sche (discuss) 03:57, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

@CodeCat: this template is currently unused, but it looks like there are places it could be used, like persé vs per se. Should we start deploying it to entries or would it be better to delete it? - -sche (discuss) 21:01, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
It's probably more useful to have separate templates for each spelling reform. This one is really too vague. —CodeCat 22:17, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
Like Template:U:de:deprecated spelling, this template accepts parameters which specify which spelling reform did the deprecating. (And like Template:U:de:deprecated spelling et al, the wording may need to be adjusted.) - -sche (discuss) 22:30, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
So keep, and use like Template:U:de:deprecated spelling. (@CodeCat: isn't one template that accepts parameters betetr than several templates one per spelling reform?) - -sche (discuss) 17:35, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
Keep. Renard Migrant (talk) 00:00, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Template:dynamic list[edit]

Transwikied along with the only page that uses it. All it does is add a rather nondescript disclaimer, reference a Wikipedia policy that has no relevance here, and add a redlinked category that contains only the template and the aforementioned transwiki. Chuck Entz (talk) 20:05, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Delete. Wikis are dynamic in the sense of "incomplete" almost by definition. No point in its sole existing use. Less point to further use. DCDuring TALK 21:59, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Template:fr-adv[edit]

This has now (and indeed long ago) been surpassed by {{head}}. I would change all instances to {{head|fr|adverb}}, fr-adv does nothing that head doesn't already do better. Renard Migrant (talk) 14:18, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

  • Redirect: If two templates do the same thing and both are used in articles, one should be redirected to the other and neither should be deleted. Purplebackpack89 03:15, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Delete, a redirect wouldn't work. —CodeCat 13:27, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. - -sche (discuss) 20:07, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Keep {{fr-adv}} simply calls {{head|fr|adverb}} - basically, it already is a redirect. I don't see what significant benefit is gained from deleting a widely used template (something like 3000 transclusions) to replace it with something identical but slightly harder to type. Smurrayinchester (talk) 13:05, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Template:fr-adj-form[edit]

As above, offers nothing that {{head}} doesn't already. Renard Migrant (talk) 22:08, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

  • Redirect: If two templates do the same thing and both are used in articles, one should be redirected to the other and neither should be deleted. Purplebackpack89 03:15, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Delete, a redirect wouldn't work. —CodeCat 13:27, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
Delete per nom. - -sche (discuss) 20:08, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Keep {{fr-adj-form}} simply calls {{head|fr|adjective forms}} - basically, it already is a redirect. I don't see what significant benefit is gained from deleting a widely used template (nearly 13000 transclusions!) to replace it with something identical but slightly harder to type. Smurrayinchester (talk) 13:08, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Keep. I agree with Smurrayinchester. embryomystic (talk) 22:01, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Category:Dragons and Category:Merpeople and their subcategories[edit]

These are way too specific. Category:Mythological creatures is enough. --WikiTiki89 16:03, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

There's 12 entries in Category:en:Dragons and 23 in Category:en:Merpeople. The first is maybe questionable, but I don't see any need to merge a category with 23 entries into a larger category.--Prosfilaes (talk) 06:58, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
Note that 2 of the 12 Dragons are currently at RfD Purplebackpack89 18:19, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
I think that Category:English words prefixed with mer- is a better category for the merpeople. (I didn't even know it existed, and it turns out it has more entries than Category:en:Merpeople!) --WikiTiki89 11:54, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
I don't use the categories much, but I don't see the advantage in dumping 23 more entries into an already full Mythological creatures. Splitting out groups of 20 for subcategorization is usually a good thing in my experience from other Wikis.--Prosfilaes (talk) 19:51, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
I agree with the principle of splitting out scores of entries into subcategories, but perhaps a more general category for aquatic mythological creatures would be preferable, which could also encompass naiads and nixies and kelpies and kappas and so forth. ~ Röbin Liönheart (talk) 18:38, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Template:ttbc[edit]

Template:trreq[edit]

Previous discussion: Wiktionary:Grease pit/2014/July#Template:t-check and Template:t-needed. I am too lazy to link to the rest of the discussion, but you can follow the links.

The replacements for these templates are {{t-check}}, {{t+check}} and {{t-needed}}. {{trreq}} has been migrated already once, but I notice some people still using {{trreq}} as before, which makes me reconsider with my idea of moving {{t-needed}} back to {{trreq}} (with the new syntax).

I think there is a clear advantage to the replacements, and the proposal had quite wide support and no oppose. Can we get these formally deprecated, so to speak? Keφr 17:32, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

  • Redirect: Purplebackpack89 18:18, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Redirecting is just going to cause more breaking. People will expect the old template to work as it always did, which it doesn't of course. —CodeCat 00:51, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
    • Case in point. (Though there have been surprisingly few such mistakes, it seems.) Keφr 13:02, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
      • Changing my vote to keep, and restore Template:trreq Template trreq shouldn't have been deleted in the middle of the discussion. Purplebackpack89 14:55, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

{{trreq}} was deleted, since it was already orphaned, and no erroneous usage arised. (Feel free to recreate as a redirect.) Orphaning {{ttbc}} will take longer; xte can help with it. Keφr 17:45, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

  • Keep, and thereby make old revisions more legible. I don't object to deprecating the templates. --Dan Polansky (talk) 18:02, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
You could use that reason to keep anything that's ever had a link to it. I think it's a terrible idea. Renard Migrant (talk) 18:07, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
I could use that reason to keep any template that was ever very widely used. And that is a good reason. It helps keep old page revisions legible. Very widely used templates should be deprecated, not deleted. --Dan Polansky (talk) 09:38, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

August 2014[edit]

Module:string[edit]

Module:isValidPageName[edit]

Template:isValidPageName[edit]

Template:ifNotValidPageName[edit]

Functionality of all of those has been integrated into Module:ugly hacks (formerly named Module:template utilities; please take care of that one too). Which was named so because this is not the type of functionality that we want to encourage to be used in templates. That module also has the advantage that it tracks templates into which it is transcluded; they should show up at Special:WantedTemplates soon.

No single replacement for these, unfortunately. Most users of {{isValidPageName}} should be probably adjusted to use a template like {{l}}, {{l-self}}, {{m}} or {{head}}. Other templates may need to be entirely converted to Lua. For yet others, a new framework or at least one special-purpose module will probably need to be devised (reference templates?).

Keφr 15:07, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

  • Keep per "No single replacement for these" Purplebackpack89 17:10, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
    Delete. @Purplebackpack89: I think you misunderstood. There is "no single replacement" for the ugly hacks module, but the nominated templates have already been replaced by the ugly hacks module. --WikiTiki89 17:23, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
    No, @Wikitiki89:, I understood that. I've come to the position that it's a bad idea to outright delete templates, as it confuses editors who don't follow RFD/O too much. Purplebackpack89 18:57, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
    The argument you gave in you first post contradicts that, but at least now you made a reasonable one. I still disagree because these templates are only used by expert template programmers, who will have no trouble adapting. These are not the kind of templates like {{head}} or {{context}} that everyone uses all the time. --WikiTiki89 23:18, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Delete, no reason to keep if they're orphaned and not needed. —CodeCat 17:17, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Template:isValidPageName is a very useful template to use when authoring other templates, and not everyone who will want to author a template knows Lua. If we delete template:isValidPageName, I very strongly recommend that (a) the deletion summary indicates what can be used instead (viz module:ugly hacks) and (b) module:ugly hacks have good documentation on how to use its functions in templates. (No comment/vote on the proposed deletions.)​—msh210 (talk) 06:16, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Category:ady:Proto-Circassian language[edit]

It's not at all clear what this category is supposed to signify. Is it terms derived from Proto-Circassian? Or something else? —CodeCat 18:26, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Adamsa123, what is the purpose of this category? --Vahag (talk) 19:02, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
It is terms derived from Proto-Circassian, but later on I figured it is better simply mentioning those terms in Etymology in each entry rather than creating an entire entry for those terms.--Adamʂa123 (talk) 12:45, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
The correct name for the category is thus Category:Adyghe terms derived from Proto-Circassian, which although it's red does already have some terms in it. However, before it can be properly created, we have to devise a code for Proto-Circassian, which apparently we don't have yet. My suggestion would be cau-cir for the Circassian family and cau-cir-pro the protolanguage. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 13:06, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
Even so, these should probably be converted from raw categories to a call to {{etyl}} in the etymology section. —CodeCat 13:26, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
Of course, but a code for Proto-Circassian is a prerequiste for that too. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 13:42, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
@-sche: Since you are involved with checking languages, can you weigh in on this? —CodeCat 14:08, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
Angr is right, the thing to do is assign codes to the Circassian family and Proto-Circassian, and and cau-cir and cau-cir-pro are fine suggestions. Then we can start using {{etyl}} for this, as you note. - -sche (discuss) 17:44, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
I've created the language and family codes now. —CodeCat 18:35, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Template:sockpuppet[edit]

Seemingly unused. Looks like stuff taken from Wikipedia. --Type56op9 (talk) 10:05, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

  • Also, I don't think sockpuppets are a problem over here. --Type56op9 (talk) 10:06, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
    • Of course you're a problem over here; it's just that no one can be bothered puttnig this template on all of your userpages. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 13:11, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Template:sockpuppeteer[edit]

As Template:sockpuppet --Type56op9 (talk) 10:06, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

  • Keep both: There have been sockpuppets in Wiktionary's history, so there are potential uses for this template. Purplebackpack89 13:43, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
    Prime example above (just to be clear, not you PBP). --WikiTiki89 14:04, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Template:FAQ:cites[edit]

Pointless --Type56op9 (talk) 10:10, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

It doesn't seem to be in use, but this is probably because people aren't aware it exists. I don't agree with the deletion rationale. Equinox 16:56, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Keep: per Equinox. "Pointless" is not in itself a deletion rationale, Type56op9 must also assert that it's either never gonna get used; or is redundant to another template. Purplebackpack89 20:55, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Delete because it's overly general; it doesn't apply to LDLs. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 21:22, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Delete: Where is this supposed to be used, and in what manner? Is it to be substed on talk pages of newbies? The template (not the template doc) just says this: "On Wiktionary, a word cannot be verified by looking in other dictionaries. Instead we try and find examples of uses of the word (mainly using [1] [2]) to prove that it is actually used." --Dan Polansky (talk) 12:06, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Category:Caucasian languages[edit]

Also included: the family code "cau" and all the categories that use it. This survived deletion back in 2009, but, even after reading through the discussion archived at Category talk:Caucasian languages, I'm not sure why.

This is strictly a geographical grouping: although many linguists have an unprovable hunch that the w:Northeast Caucasian languages and the w:Northwest Caucasian languages may be related, there's been very little support for linking them to the w:Kartvelian languages. Indeed, even among those proposing that the w:North Caucasian languages are related to everything from Basque to Sino-Tibetan to the Na-Dene languages of North America, and those who say the Kartvelian languages are related to Indo-European, Afro-Asiatic Dravidian, and many others, linking North Caucasian and South Caucasian/Kartvelian is rarely even considered. If there were such a family, it would probably be named the w:Ibero-Caucasian languages.

This category is mostly a holding category for the three families mentioned, but, judging from the derivational categories, there are a dozen entries that refer to the Caucasian languages as a group in their etymologies, of which seven are Old Armenian. Perhaps we can get an idea from Vahagn Petrosyan (talkcontribs) about whether this is a serious obstacle. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:31, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Scholarly sources, modern or dated, dealing with Armenian linguistics often refer to "Caucasian languages", when they cannot distinguish between Kartvelian/East Caucasian/West Caucasian. The code cau is very convenient for such cases. However, I understand that our etymological categories are based on genetic relationship and that the laziness of sources does not justify having this category. I will go through the Old Armenian entries and try to assign them to different branches. So, delete. PS By the way, your ping did not work. --Vahag (talk) 15:38, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
Keep. There is no reason that we cannot have a category for languages that are often referred to as "Caucasian languages" outside of our etymological tree. --WikiTiki89 14:59, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Previously deleted entries[edit]

...and its A-Z subpages. These haven't been updated for years, and don't really hold any useful information: they are just links to past discussions, which could now be found on deleted entries' talk pages. Should we consider deleting these? Equinox 13:41, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Delete Wiktionary:Previously deleted entries, Wiktionary:Previously deleted entries/A and the other subpages. Note, however, that many of the discussions linked from there are not found on talk pages; e.g. macrocosmus has empty Talk:macrocosmus; curiously enough, macrocosmus is at Wiktionary:Requests for deletion/Archives/2007/03 anyway. If this gets deleted, remove a link to it from {{rfv-failed}}. --Dan Polansky (talk) 07:10, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
I see no harm in keeping it until everything from it is moved to talk pages. Though of course it should be eventually deleted. Renard Migrant (talk) 11:37, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
@Renard Migrant: The harm is in increasing the entropy of the web site for very little benefit. For instance, {{rfv-failed}} currently links the reader to Wiktionary:Previously deleted entries as if this page were of any import. Having very old discussions on talk pages is inessential since they can be found in RFV and RFD page histories by looking by the date of deletion. In case of doubt, a deleted page can be restored and sent to RFD anew. Originally, I hesitated to support, but I now see immediate deletion as the best course of action. I do not think it worthwhile to wait until someone spends their resources (time, attention) to ensure that all discussions linked from Wiktionary:Previously deleted entries are copied to talk pages. --Dan Polansky (talk) 12:36, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
This seems a lot like deleting the record of judicial decisions. In a common-law country such decisions certainly reflect efforts to interpret and apply laws and principles to situations not contemplated when the principles and laws are articulated and passed. Our decision-making is similar. Erasing convenient history seems to me to be a mistake, making investigation of our decision-making limited to those who can manipulate the edit history in XML dumps. I am aware of no such efforts. As it is, there is no effort to record speedy deletions and no ready means of accessing whatever record the wiki software retains.
More desirable would be a more systematic record of ALL deleted terms, at least via the RfD process, and a link to the current location of the discussion. Even better would be to make sure that there was a copy of the discussion in the talk page corresponding to the entry or definition deleted.
Accordingly, Keep until a more effective means of accessing such decisions and their rationale is implemented. DCDuring TALK 15:08, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
I don't understand much of what you are saying. A systematic list of all terms deleted via RFD and archived using the method currently in place (placing dicussions on talk pages) can be found by looking at Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:rfd-failed (2536 pages per AWB) and Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:rfd-passed (1892 pages per AWB); ditto for RFV. This gives you an extensive history of discussions of past deletions. They are searchable using Goggle; Wiktionary:Previously deleted entries/A does not give you the text of the discussion, so it does not help searchability. As for terms deleted and not so archived, one only has to take the year and the month of the deletion, and then search in history, using the online wiki functions, no dump processing. Moreover, multiple of these links in Wiktionary:Previously deleted entries/A are broken anyway; e.g. for "adipoli" or Ábraham (never deleted). --Dan Polansky (talk) 15:51, 27 September 2014 (UTC) I have striken my comment that is worthless. --Dan Polansky (talk) 16:14, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
At best the coverage of 'what links here' pages covers only a period for which the templates have been applied. It is likely to fall short of complete coverage even during that period due to imperfect implementation. It would not be a surprise to me if someone decided to replace these templates or change or dispense with the archiving process, further fragmenting our readily accessible historical record. I'd favor someone mining these pages to more appropriately archive the discussions of the included deleted items before the pages are deleted. If someone can do so more effectively by instead mining the XML edit history, they should do so.
I suppose it is possible, even likely, that we won't ever have the resources to actually be systematic about much of anything, let alone making sense of our actual practice in deciding to keep or delete entries and definitions. Making some of the history less available doesn't really matter if such history isn't going to be looked at. I have some hope that we will have the resources to do so and would like to preserve anything that might help. DCDuring TALK 17:05, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

Template:be-adj1, Template:be-adj2, Template:be-adj3, Template:be-adj4, Template:be-adj5[edit]

In favor of the easier-to-use {{be-adj-table}}{{be-decl-adj}}, to which the above essentially redirect. --WikiTiki89 15:57, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

The new template is kind of misnamed though. Generally, the templates named -table are the ones that contain the table, to which other templates supply the information to fill it in. It does not normally contain any grammar logic. —CodeCat 16:18, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
That's an arbitrary rule though, it makes sense both ways, but happens to go against your personal naming convention. The reason for my naming scheme is that I named them the same way I named the Russian noun template, and when I named the Russian noun template, Template:ru-decl-noun already existed, containing tables, so the first thing I thought of for the automatic declension table was Template:ru-noun-table. Then I named the Russian adjective template the same way, and now I used the same scheme for Ukrainian and Belarusian. --WikiTiki89 16:55, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
It's arbitrary and it did start off as my own personal convention, but I do think it's still sensible to follow it. And it's better to give the template the right name before it becomes widely used. —CodeCat 17:07, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
Who else has followed your convention? I honestly don't mind switching them (it is arbitrary, after all) as long as the Russian templates are switched as well, but the Russian ones are widely used. --WikiTiki89 17:50, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
I thought we had a module for Russian already? We probably don't need the template anymore then. And I don't know who else followed the convention, that would be up to those who followed it to say? —CodeCat 17:57, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
Searching for "Template:table" gives templates I created, but also quite a few created by others from what I can see. —CodeCat 17:58, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
Yes, that module is accessed through Template:ru-noun-table. The old template Template:ru-decl-noun, which is the backup table for irregular nouns, is still very widely used. And can you link to an example or two of a "-table" template that you did not create? --WikiTiki89 18:07, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
No wonder I'm confused. We have two or three entirely separate methods for making Russian inflection tables. I thought that when the module was created, the existing templates were changed to use it. But that wasn't done for some reason and an entirely new parallel template was created. We should probably try to sort that out by deleting what we no longer need, and merging/renaming what we want to keep.
A list of the templates named -table that I did not name, but do work in the way I described: {{osx-decl-noun-table}}, {{is-conj-table}}, {{fr-conj-table}}, {{enm-conj-table}}, {{uk-conj-table}}, {{ca-conj-table}}, {{be-conj-table}}, {{lv-conj-table}}, {{hit-conj-table}}, {{el-decl-adj-table}}, {{lv-decl-noun-table}}, {{cel-gau-decl-noun-table}}, {{ka-conj-table-transitive}}, {{el-conj-table}} {{el-conj-table-passive}}, {{nds-conj-table}}, {{non-conj-table}}, {{nn-verb table}}, {{nn-verb-table}}, {{nb-verb table}}, {{nn-adj table}}, {{nn-adj-table}}, {{nb-adj table}}, {{nb-adj-table}}, {{nn-noun table}}, {{nn-noun-table}}, {{nb-noun-table}}, {{gml-conj-table}}, {{nds-conj-table}}, {{egy-decl-noun-table}}, {{ang-decl-adj-table}}, {{kn-decl-table}}, {{oc-conj-table}}, {{lv-decl-part-table}}, {{ast-conj-table}}, {{sem-decl-noun-table}}. There may be more. —CodeCat 18:48, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
I was going to propose deleting the old non-module templates for Russian right after this, but I thought I might as well get the easy stuff over with first. --WikiTiki89 18:54, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
I agree. —CodeCat 18:56, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
Done swapping the templates (very convoluted work). Now I'll do the Ukrainian ones. --WikiTiki89 19:33, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
Done swapping the Ukrainian ones as well. @CodeCat: do you plan on voting on these now? --WikiTiki89 20:22, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
I supported the proposal from the start. I guess I forgot to say so... —CodeCat 20:45, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Template:uk-adj1, Template:uk-adj2, Template:uk-adj3[edit]

In favor of the easier-to-use {{uk-adj-table}}{{uk-decl-adj}}, to which the above essentially redirect. --WikiTiki89 15:57, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

SupportCodeCat 20:46, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
Question book magnify2.svg Input needed
This discussion needs further input in order to be successfully closed. Please take a look!

Can I orphan it now? Pinging Anatoli in case he wants to have a say too. Keφr 19:02, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

No objections, if you convert all the entries to use {{uk-decl-adj}}. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 21:42, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

September 2014[edit]

Ladino headword-line templates[edit]

Unneeded, all information has been already moved to Category:Ladino numerals; moreover, it has only one subcategory. JSBrowand13 (talk) 16:05, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

  • Moved from RfD. bd2412 T 18:41, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
To be honest I can't even guess what it is your trying to nominate for deletion. From the title it would be Category:Ladino headword-line templates but that doesn't fit your description. Not even close. Renard Migrant (talk) 21:58, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Struck as moot. Keφr 20:28, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Category:Ladino numbers[edit]

Category:Ladino terms by semantic function[edit]

Category:Ladino terms by usage[edit]

And now, what probably was actually intended to be nominated here. No opinion on these myself. Keφr 12:10, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Category:zh:Variant pronunciations[edit]

Category:cmn:Variant pronunciations[edit]

Category:zh-cn:Variant Pronunciations[edit]

Category:zh-tw:Variant Pronunciations[edit]

Category:Mandarin variant pronunciations[edit]

It's not at all clear what these categories actually contain. Terms, in themselves, are not variant pronunciations, so this needs to be clarified if they are to be kept. Also, these are not topical categories so they should not be named as such. —CodeCat 22:19, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

I would just delete the fuck out of them. Renard Migrant (talk) 11:31, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
Me too. But notifying Wyang and kc_kennylau first. Keφr 17:31, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
Well, obviously this category contains terms that have more than one Mandarin pronunciations. I would wait for the creator Atitarev to defend it. --kc_kennylau (talk) 00:49, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
Interesting, why do you want to delete something you don't understand? Out of spite? The category contains terms with multiple hanzi readings. Entries are added automatically for characters with different readings in mainland China and Taiwan, e.g. 稍微 where character is pronounced "wēi" in PRC and "wéi" in Taiwan. The category is maintained by User:Wyang, User:Tooironic and myself. Since the majority of characters are pronounced the same way in Mandarin, it is useful for learners/users to see when there are variations. If the naming is not perfect and there's not enough description, then this can be fixed. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 01:02, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
I've emptied and deleted the rest. The remaining category is automatically populated by {{zh-pron}}. By the way, I don't think the category name is unclear. Wyang (talk) 01:07, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
Then what does it mean when the word 別介 is called a variant pronunciation? —CodeCat 02:03, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
It means that the term can be pronounced "biéjie" OR "biéjia". --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 02:07, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
We already have another category for terms that can be pronounced more than one way: Category:English heteronyms. —CodeCat 02:23, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
It's not the same. The term 別介别介 has two pronunciations for the same sense. Chinese also has heteronyms and words/characters with different senses, which can also be pronounced differently. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 02:30, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Of course don't delete this. This is one of the most valuable features we boast on here in our Chinese coverage. At present no other dictionaries can provide this information. That Renard Migrant proposes to "delete the fuck" out of these is ignorant and offensive. ---> Tooironic (talk) 02:20, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
Rename to something like "Mandarin terms with multiple pronunciations", which would be clearer and would also better fit how other categories are named, e.g. Category:English terms with multiple etymologies, Category:English terms with rare senses. - -sche (discuss) 02:25, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
Support renaming to that, definitely. —CodeCat 02:29, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Template:Unicode:Hindu-Arabic script[edit]

Template:Unicode:Katakana script[edit]

These are used on only one appendix page. Can they be substituted and then deleted? —CodeCat 01:01, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Category:English words prefixed with Palestino-[edit]

I mean, really? Is this productive at all? Highly doubt it. {{affix|en|Palestine|-o-}} would work better for these three words. Keφr 14:08, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Palestino- is used as a nationality prefix like Sino-, Italo-, etc. Words formed using these types of prefixes have been deleted in the past so I don’t know if a category for them can be expected to have entries. I agree that its current contents correspond to Palestine + -o-. — Ungoliant (falai) 14:39, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
I don't think the pronunciation is the same as just Palestine + -o-, is it? —CodeCat 16:21, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
Palestine: /-aɪn/. Palestino-: /-iːn-/. --WikiTiki89 22:37, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
Then these must be separate terms, as there's no regular rule in English that would account for the change in pronunciation. —CodeCat 22:39, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
Is Palestino- pronounced /-iːn-/, though? It seems counter-intuitive that it would be, at least to me, given that Sino- is /-aɪn-/. - -sche (discuss) 02:44, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
I would want to pronounce it /-iːn-/, but I've never heard it. Does anyone have any YouTubes with this? DCDuring TALK 04:24, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
The difference in pronunciation seems quite natural to me: the "in" in Sino- is the only syllable in the affix aside from the connecting vowel, the "in" in Palestino- has two syllables in front of it. Look at the pronunciation of Palestine vs. Palestinian. There may also be some influence from foreign borrowings such as Filipino. Chuck Entz (talk) 04:41, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Category:English phrasal verbs with particle (rid)[edit]

Whether or not we call get rid of/be rid of phrasal verbs, I don't see that rid is a w:Grammatical particle in the same way as down might be so considered in write down or sit down. Accordingly, I think the category should be removed. DCDuring TALK 00:49, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Template:Quercus Hypernyms/documentation[edit]

Orphaned, not the standard approach of having such templates only for taxonomic families and orders. DCDuring TALK 01:17, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

December 2014[edit]

Template:es-verb-form[edit]

This doesn't contain any language-specific logic, it just calls {{head|es|verb form|head=...}}. —CodeCat 21:46, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

Delete as I said or {{fr-verb-form}}. If any only if such nominated templates have no language specific information and no realistic prospect of having any. Renard Migrant (talk) 21:58, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

January 2015[edit]

Index:English and subpages[edit]

Should we delete this, since it hasn't been updated since 2012, and Category:English lemmas (which is updated automatically with every new entry) seems to serve the same purpose? Equinox 19:35, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

We should keep it (and update it if possible). The index contains the PoS and audio links, plus you can jump closer to a certain word from the first page using the TOC. The lemma category can't do these. --Panda10 (talk) 19:48, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Appendix:Finnish numerals[edit]

A transwiki fork of wikipedia:Finnish numerals from about five years ago. Has not seen substantial edits since its creation (while its original has continued to evolve). Most functions of the page are moreover covered by Category:Finnish numerals and Appendix:Finnish numbers. --Tropylium (talk) 13:53, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Category:English vyadhikarana compounds[edit]

What on Earth is this supposed to be? (There are other similar weird categories by the same person) SemperBlotto (talk) 09:16, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

See Sanskrit compound for a very poorly written and hard-to-understand explanation of these terms. That article says "All these normal Tatpuruṣa compounds are called vyadhikarana Tatpuruṣa, because the case ending should depend upon the second member because semantically the second member has primacy, but actually the case ending depends upon the first member." However, since English doesn't have case endings I don't see how it can have vyadhikarana compounds. Delete. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 10:21, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
There are areas where traditional English grammatical vocabulary is deficient. Eg, does traditional English vocabulary have a term for those compound nouns that form plurals by pluralizing the first term of the compound, eg, attorney-general? CGEL (2001) uses dvandva in its discussion of nouns.
We have entries for some of these (tatpurusa, bahuvrihi), but not vyadhikarana.
Though I'd prefer a category name that was more readily understood, I'd like to see some effort to categorize English compounds along these lines. It might even help with some of our RfD discussion for open-spelled compounds. DCDuring TALK 12:58, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
If I've understood the WP page correctly (which may not be the case considering how confusingly it's written) vyadhikaranas are a kind of tatpurusha, so we could still categorize these words as Category:English tatpurusa compounds without making more detailed distinctions that may well be Sanskrit-specific. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 13:11, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
I don't see how any of the three entries in the category fit. They all pluralize based on the second element, don't they?—like regular nouns, and unlike Angr's description of vyadhikarana. Pinging User:DerekWinters to explain. - -sche (discuss) 19:44, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Likewise, the one entry in Category:French dvandva compounds is not a compound of two elements connected by an "and", it distinctly lacks an "and"/"et"... - -sche (discuss) 19:46, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
A dvandva is compound that could be connected by an and and thus its lack defines the compound. Aigre-doux is literally means 'both bitter and sweet' and could be written as aigre et doux. Its lack however here makes it a dvandva compound by becoming 'aigre-doux'. Vyadhikaranas are compounds that are not coordinative like dvandvas but indicate a different relationship between the two. Thus, a vyadhikarana like god-given indicates the phrase 'given by the gods', an instrumental relationship. Battlefield is a 'field for battle' or a 'field of battle', dative or genitive relationships respectively. DerekWinters (talk) 19:54, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Also, in vyadhikaranas, the second member has primacy, unlike avyayibhavas, and thus should be pluralized on such a basis. DerekWinters (talk) 19:56, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
The question remains whether the Sanskrit concepts are well-suited for application to English. "Dvandva" seems to be at least minimally accepted. Bahuvrihi) is sometimes deemed synonymous with exocentric. Insofar as the Sanskrit compound-noun terms depend on inflectional grammar rather than semantics, they are difficult to apply to English.
A more basic approach to English compounds of each PoS would analyze them by the word-class from which the components derive and which was the head, eg, back nine (ADJ-NOUN), back down (VERB-ADV). Some further categorization would be possible, including, for example, the nature of the case/prepositional semantic relationship between the components of endocentric noun-noun compounds. Eg, backrest (rest for the back), backseat (seat in the back), backstabber (one who stabs (in) the back [accusative]), backbone (bone of the back).
This leads me to conclude that English does not fit into the scheme that this category represents. I welcome any demonstration of its applicability and intelligibility to normal folks or acceptance by English grammarians. Delete DCDuring TALK 21:15, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Just because it may not be so applicable to English does not mean it wouldn't be applicable to many other languages. English is simply one of many. Also, Merriam Webster does have definitions of dvandva, bahuvrihi, tatpurusa, and karmadharaya. For example, their definition of karmadharaya is
A class of compound words typically having a noun as second constituent and a descriptive adjective as first constituent (as bluegrass, blackberry), a noun as second constituent and an attributive noun as first constituent (as houseboat), or an adjective as second constituent and an adverb as first constituent (as everlasting, widespread) and having meanings that follow the formula “a B that is A ” for nouns or “B in the manner expressed by A ” for adjectives, where A stands for the first constituent and B for the second; also : a compound word belonging to this class.
I'm also seeing quite a few non-Indic linguistics books employing terms like tatpurusa and bahuvrihi, for example: https://books.google.com/books?id=CerT4n6N26AC&dq=tatpurusa+oed&source=gbs_navlinks_s. Thus I'm inclined to believe that the terms have already been somewhat accepted into linguistics (my basis for adding them) and have true applicability in the linguistics of a variety of languages. DerekWinters (talk) 23:18, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
@DerekWinters: This particular RfD is only for Category:English vyadhikarana compounds. I have no opinion on the applicability of vyadhikarana to other languages, nor necessarily of the applicability of other Sanskrit-derived compound-describing terms to English. But we should definitely start with attested definitions of the terms before we use them in category names. DCDuring TALK 23:36, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Right; I'm not saying we should get rid of all Sanskrit-named compound types. Tatpurusha, dvandva, and bahuvrihi are all pretty well established terms in linguistics and are certainly applicable to many other languages than Sanskrit. But I'm not convinced that vyadhikarana is applicable to English, or that it's useful to use even if someone does manage to dig up an instance of it being used to describe English. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 00:12, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Oh, well if that's the case then I'm not sure what we should do. DerekWinters (talk) 16:04, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
For now, if I understand the situation correctly, you could recategorize the English nouns into Category:English tatpurusa compounds. You could also see whether vyadhikarana is attestable and, if it is, create the entry. If it is not, we could try to see if there is a term that is suitable for a name for the category. DCDuring TALK 21:41, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I didn't see any use of vyadhikarana applied to English at Google Books. DCDuring TALK 22:01, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Just one at Google Scholar. DCDuring TALK 22:40, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Appendix:Proto-Slavic/bazovъ[edit]

This page was created on the basis of an entry in the Etymological Dictionary of the Slavic Languages, which in turn was created to be the etymology of Lower Sorbian bazowy (pertaining to elder trees). Perhaps the authors of that dictionary are unaware that Proto-Slavic ъ can sometimes surface as a in Lower Sorbian, but it can, and the etymon of the word is actually *bъzovъ, which also has an entry in the same dictionary. Alternatively, bazowy may simply have been coined in Lower Sorbian as baz + -owy, but either way, it isn't from *bazovъ. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 15:21, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

In *bazъ and *bъzъ you can find Lower Sorbian baz. *bazъ: Lower Sorbian baz (бузина Sambucus nigra); *bъzъ: Lower Sorbian dial. bez, baz. First entry also gives Russian dial. бас (bas, бузина), Ukrainian dial. базни́к (baznýk, сирень), базни́к (baznýk, собачья бузина Sambucus ebulus L, сирень Syringa vulgaris). —Игорь Телкачь 16:27, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Template:pt-verb/templateList[edit]

This template and all referenced ones below can probably be safely deleted since the logic has been moved to Module:pt-conj and Module:pt-headword.

Jberkel (talk) 00:04, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Support, but let’s not close this discussion too fast, in case we notice something wrong with the module. — Ungoliant (falai) 01:38, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Unit tests, people. Keφr 17:07, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I'll add some, but almost impossible to cover all possible cases / inflection types. On a second thought, generating test cases à la QuickCheck might help here. – Jberkel (talk) 18:41, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
OK, I've added unit tests for the new code. Don't forget to add a testcase if you find a bug in the module. – Jberkel (talk) 01:57, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Category:IPA pronunciations with repetition[edit]

I don't see the point of this category. It's a subcat of Category:Pronunciation cleanup, but nothing needs cleaning up. There is nothing wrong with repeating a symbol in IPA transcription. Long vowels and geminate consonants can be transcribed either with the long mark (ː) or by doubling the symbol. Both methods are legitimate. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 17:44, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Delete While it contains a handful of legitimately bad entries (eg this and this) and slightly messy looking entries where syllable marking might be a good idea (this), the module that does this generates too much chaff to sort through. For instance, it tags deinen#German, because it reads nn̩ as nn̩, budget#Italian because it reads dd͡ʒ as dd͡ʒ and chū...khai-sí because it doesn't like the ellipsis*. There are also entries like fountain, Hermione and 雛祭り which are apparently only there because of the {{ of a nested template. It would be better if there were more specific categories for things that can only be errors (doubled stress markers or ties, tripled characters, etc). Smurrayinchester (talk) 15:34, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
(*) Incidentally, I note that whoever put this together was clever enough to recognise that tone markers can legitimately be doubled, so khai-sí isn't tagged. Smurrayinchester (talk) 15:34, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
Comment re "It would be better if there were more specific categories for things that can only be errors": or we could simply re-purpose this category. - -sche (discuss) 14:32, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Template:list:cardinals from zero to forty-nine/en[edit]

Not used. If we really want to make this kind of list it should have a different form (like Appendix or the like).--Dixtosa (talk) 18:52, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

{{list:ordinals_from_zeroth_to_forty-ninth/en}}--Dixtosa (talk) 18:54, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
Delete. Even supposing one would want this kind of brute-force method of showing variation in numeral formation, fifty is excessive. Almost all the languages I've studied show no difference in formation strategy between the thirties and fourties (or seventies, for that matter). In English, there's the archaic use of score, so that "two score and nine" is different from thirty-nine, but that's not included here.
I don't see the purpose of having links to fifty numbers in one language section- does anyone benefit from being able to click on forty-three in the sixteen entry? It seems more like a stunt than anything useful. I would add all the other subtemplates, too: only the Navajo, Telegu and Russian subtemplates are transcluded at all, and half of the Navajo links are redlinks.
List templates in general use a disproportionate amount of system resources for minimal benefits, but this bunch is particularly bad. Chuck Entz (talk) 19:42, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
No, they do not :?
Actually they save much space as you do not have to put the same list all over. This is why I am thinking of creating templates for each group related terms. At least for such long lists: #Related_terms, членство#Related_terms. --Dixtosa (talk) 20:30, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
Delete Replace with appendices, which have way more potential value, as they can readily accommodate language peculiarities, archaisms etc. DCDuring TALK 21:19, 6 February 2015 (UTC)


this one too--Dixtosa (talk) 21:21, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Template:list:tech/en[edit]

Not used. Category:English leet is enough.

previous discussion --Dixtosa (talk) 22:22, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Delete I don't know what those terms have to do with slate blue. Seems to have been created by a new(?) user, possibly by mistake. Smurrayinchester (talk) 13:24, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Template:ka-con[edit]

works exactly like head|ka|conjunction. --Dixtosa (talk) 16:43, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

  • Keep As I've said before, there's no point deleting these sorts of templates. They simply serve as redirects to reduce typing and make it easier for people to remember all the templates systematically . Smurrayinchester (talk) 20:13, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Delete. Having less of these templates makes it easier for people to remember all the templates. Right now, it's not obvious whether someone should be using {{ka-con}} or {{head|ka|conjunction}}. —CodeCat 20:23, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
    Yes. I think we should make a ruling that dedicated templates must only be created when they require more (or language-specific) features than {{head}}. But, yeah, it's too late xD--Dixtosa (talk) 20:47, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Template:Webster 1828[edit]

It's no longer used. That's probably not a good enough reason for deletion. We also have * Template:R:Webster 1828 if that is another reason. --Type56op9 (talk) 15:08, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

  • There is a couple of other templates that redirect to it. They should go as well (if not used). SemperBlotto (talk) 15:12, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

User:Robert Ullmann/Español/10 January 2009[edit]

A page used to find missing Spanish articles. Today, there are no missing pages, so I'd say we don't need the page anymore. OTOH, this is someone's userspace so I'm not sure on "policy". --Type56op9 (talk) 17:40, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

There are three or four red links in there. Are they errors? Also, might we want some of the quoted sentences as citations? Equinox 17:42, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
They are errors. I made a note on the page. I personally don't especially want the quoted sentences as citations. --Type56op9 (talk) 17:50, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Appendix:Indo-Aryan loanwords in Tamil[edit]

Crappy appendix with a misleading name. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 19:19, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

In principle this kind of information should be in Category:Tamil terms derived from Indo-Aryan languages on one hand (viz. individual etymologies), and perhaps w:History of the Tamil language (nonexistent, but see w:Tamil language#History) on the other (viz. details of sound substitutions and sound changes). This appendix seems to have much information that isn't currently in either, though, so I would first suggest (keep but) cleanup. Delete once fully obsoleted, perhaps. --Tropylium (talk) 12:35, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
Upon closer examination: delete. w:Indo-Aryan loanwords in Tamil indeed exists. --Tropylium (talk) 21:00, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Category:en:Leprosy[edit]

Excessive category granularity, IMHO. This category has 5 items, and is unlikely to get an interesting number of items. The parent Category:en:Diseases seems to have an okay granularity. --Dan Polansky (talk) 08:34, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

What is an interesting number? 10? 100? 1,000? Could you be more explicit about "okay granularity"? How would one tell whether it was okay with you? DCDuring TALK 12:44, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
I would favour keeping such a category. As w:Leprosy states, "[l]eprosy has affected humanity for thousands of years", with the first textual evidence of the disease dating back to the fourth or fifth millennium BC. Accordingly, it will have accumulated a lot of words in its semantic field (consider the obsolete mesel, for example), not to mention all the words for things involved in the disease's diagnosis, treatment, etc. You can confidently expect Category:en:Leprosy's granularity to improve considerably over time. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 13:47, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
Keep. There are some words in the semantic field of leprosy that don’t belong in Category:en:Diseases, like leper colony, leprosarium and Lazarus. — Ungoliant (falai) 14:07, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
So, do we need to add equivalent categories in other languages? So that words such as lazzaretto could be included in them? SemperBlotto (talk) 14:15, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
@SemperBlotto: I would say so. It's a simple matter of creating, for example, Category:it:Leprosy with the text {{topic cat|it|Leprosy}}. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 14:25, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
Keep. There are a number of leprosy-related terms in Category:en:Diseases, which is slightly crowded already at 265 entries, and there are quite a few entries in Category:en:Pathology (1463 entries) that belong in Category:en:Diseases, which would make that worse. Add to that the fact that topical categories tend to be under-used, in general, and I suspect that there could easily be a couple dozen in that category with a little work. Chuck Entz (talk) 15:18, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
Is "pathology" a topic or a discourse domain? I would have thought that we might need for some terms to be in both a discourse-domain category and one or more topical categories.
Don't leprosy and its synonyms belong in a disease category? Where does a causative agent for the disease go? Where would distinct symptoms and treatments go? Where does leper colony (See leper colony at OneLook Dictionary Search) go? DCDuring TALK 15:46, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Template:acronym-old[edit]

Long since deprecated, and now unused. 95.144.169.113 19:15, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Delete. Unnecessary. --Romanophile (talk) 06:24, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
Deleted. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 19:03, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Template:spelink[edit]

Fully supplanted by {{taxlink}} in function and actual use. —JohnC5 06:00, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Delete as unnecessary and a source of confusion. DCDuring TALK 07:13, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
Aye, delete per the discussion in User talk:DCDuring#spelink behavior. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 12:16, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
Delete. Renard Migrant (talk) 20:41, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Category:Suevic[edit]

What is this supposed to be? It's sorted in the language category tree, but doesn't follow proper nomenclature and I don't know a language with this name. -- Liliana 22:35, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

It's an artifact of how {{derivcatboiler}} handles etymology-only language codes. User:Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV‎ had a few etymologies that referred specifically to this, so CodeCat added it to the etymology-only languages for him. See w:Suebi#language. The template generates a link to the language category for any language that has a code, but no one has really worked out what kind of categories the etymology-only languages should have, so it just does whatever the code defaults to- usually just the bare name of the language.
This puts redlinks in the derivational categories, which show up in Special:WantedCategories- they're kind of like the flashing "12:00 AM" display on electronic devices with no time set: after a while you get so tired of seeing them that you just create a dummy category so you don't have to look at them. That's what this is. There are probably a good many others. Chuck Entz (talk) 01:51, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
It does have an etyl: code. Should it? Renard Migrant (talk) 12:36, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
Yes, especially if we're referring to it in etymologies. And I notice that it has such a code (perhaps added after the comments above were made): gem-sue. - -sche (discuss) 17:22, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
The category seems OK now; it fits how other etymology-only languages' categories are named, e.g. Category:Provençal, and it is only categorized a little differently because it's not strictly a regional variety of another language like Provençal is. - -sche (discuss) 17:32, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
So, is this RFD resolved? - -sche (discuss) 20:31, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Template:roa-grn-adj-form/documentation[edit]

Tagged for speedy deletion by Lo Ximiendo yesterday. The template is orphaned. I'm bringing it here for procedural reasons since, unless I'm mistaken, templates like this are not candidates for speedy deletion. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 18:43, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

roa-grn is being complete phased out in favor of nrf. So please do speedy delete this, Template:roa-grn-adj-form and Template:roa-grn-adj-form-mf. Renard Migrant (talk) 23:14, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
@Renard Migrant: OK. I've just deleted both. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 23:17, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
There are quite a few more in Category:Candidates for speedy deletion to be done. Renard Migrant (talk) 12:42, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
@Renard Migrant: I've deleted all the roa- templates and their documentation subpages which were marked for speedy deletion. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 19:52, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

April 2015[edit]

Wikisaurus:Mesarthim[edit]

While I suppose you could technically argue that the systematic names of astronomical nomenclature are synonyms of the common names, this is information that is really better suited to a dedicated star catalogue. Smurrayinchester (talk) 12:26, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

  • Delete; too high granularity for Wikisaurus, IMHO. And all the items are redlinks. --Dan Polansky (talk) 20:42, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Wikisaurus:moon of Uranus[edit]

Wikisaurus:moon of Haumea[edit]

Wikisaurus:moon of Jupiter[edit]

Wikisaurus:moon of Mars[edit]

Wikisaurus:moon of Saturn[edit]

Wikisaurus:moon of Neptune[edit]

Wikisaurus:moon of Pluto[edit]

None of these pages lists a single synonym! The content that they contain is already included both in the subcategories of Category:en:Moons (Category:en:Moons of Jupiter etc), which are easier to maintain, and in the list templates (template:list:moons of Haumea/en etc). These Wikisaurus pages all seem to be unused (not linked to from mainspace). Smurrayinchester (talk) 12:39, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

It does not matter that they do not list synonyms. Wikisaurus is about all semantic relations. E.g. Wikisaurus:bird is perfectly fine regardless of hosting almost no synonyms. And an overlap with categories is not a reason for deletion of a Wikisaurus entry. As for the moon pages, I abstain. --Dan Polansky (talk) 20:51, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
Abstain as the creator of all these pages, I don't particularly care if they survive or not in the Wikisaurus. But in any event, maybe these lists could be kept in appendices. --Daniel 07:58, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Template:es-conj-ir (abolir)[edit]

Is this necessary? According to Spanish Wiktionary, abolir is entirely regular. Esszet (talk) 19:06, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

After doing some research, I've found that the RAE is not entirely clear as to whether abolir is a defective verb or not: according to the Diccionario de la lengua española, it is, but according to the Diccionario panhispánico de dudas, it used to be but no longer is. I'll send them an e-mail once their contact service is back up (it's disabled until Monday). Esszet (talk) 19:26, 2 April 2015 (UTC)



I think this entry for the conjugation of "Abolir" should not be deleted but marked as "colloquial" and not "RAE approved" which defines this verb as defective.
The only reason this verb is defective is because of the lack of a consensus on how to conjugate it, not because of a logical impossibility.
(defectiveness rendered mute)
None the less if supposed conjugation are called here upon; five possible verbal templates could be called forth.


I'll make example of the present, past historic and present subjunctive tenses of each since the other verbal tenses can be deduced from it:

I HAVE PLACED MY DEFINITE NOMINATION AT THE BOTTOM

FIRST possible conjugational paradigm,

by making it analogous to "poder" (to be able to)

I think of this template as very objectionable the least fit one of all.


The problem with the above conjugational analogy is the striking homophony with the word
"abuelo" (grandfather)
and "abuela" (grandmother)
which actually if this conjugational model is followed, the form
"abuela"would arise in the present subjunctive and mean alternately "were he, she or it to abolish at this present time" and "were I to abolish at this present time",
also "abuelas" which means "grandmothers" would mean "were you (thou) to abolish at this present time".
For these reasons I think of this template as very objectionable the least fit one of all.



SECOND possible conjugational paradigm,

by making it analogous to "tener" (to possess)

The above template doesn't have the homophony problems of the former and would theoretically be much fitter than the former template.
Though Spanish euphonic patterns would weaken the tonic "o" vowel thusly:


The above template (2.2) would arguably be along with (3.2) the fittest within the five possible paradigms.



THIRD possible conjugational paradigm,
If the irregularity of the second template's past historic were to be a problem then it could be conjugated

by making it analogous to: "salir" (to exit)

Which would be exactly like the former one, including the euphonic weakening of the tonic "o" vowel, with the exception of a regular historic past. Like so:


In general I deem (3.2) just as fit as (2.2).
I would argue for the dual alternate past historic both regular and irregular as many verbs already do.



FOURTH possible conjugational paradigm,

by making it analogous to "comer" (to eat)

This template is cacophonic and ambiguous

The above template aside from being most cacophonic
would in the present and present subjunctive tenses give to the notion of "to make ball-like" from the hypothetical but perfectly understandable verb "abolar" "to make ball-like" since "bola" means "ball, round mass, sphere".



FIFTH possible conjugational paradigm,

by making it analogous to "poner" (to place down)

This template isn't that objectionable but in the present tense it would partly also give to the notion of "to make ball-like"; and I reiterate; from the hypothetical but perfectly understandable verb "abolar" "to make ball-like" since "bola" means "ball, round mass, sphere".




We don't really comment on what other dictionaries write, as there as so many of them! Name one dictionary that comments that another dictionary has an entry or has no entry. Also, your comment its pretty much unreadable. Also, is anything being nominated for deletion here? Move to RFC? Move to Talk:abolir, even. Renard Migrant (talk) 10:56, 8 April 2015 (UTC)



User_Gesælig Æsc : The conjugational template for the verb was nominated for deletion, probably because there is no consensus on how to conjugate it and is regarded as a defective verb though it can technically be conjugated as I have shown above within many verbal paradigms but a consensus is needed, I find (2.2) and (3.2) the fittest, which are basically one paradigm with an alternate dual historic past.



User_Gesælig Æsc :
DEFINITE NOMINATION
In conclusion I'll argue for the following conjugational template not only the fittest but completely unambiguous, most euphonic and completely analogical with Spanish verbal paradigms:
As with every verb with dual or multiple forms, which one to use and stick to, is left to the discretion and preference of the speaker.

Optimum verbal paradigm of ABOLIR

PRESENT TIME
1st person singular "abulgo"
2nd person singular "abueles"
3rd person singular "abuele"
1st person plural "abolimos"
2nd person plural "abolís"
3rd person plural "abuelen"

PAST HISTORIC
1st person singular "abule" and dually along with "abolí"
2nd person singular "abuliste" and dually along with "aboliste"
3rd person singular "abulo" and dually along with "abolió"
1st person plural "abulímos" and dually along with "abolímos"
2nd person plural "abulísteis" and dually along with "abolísteis"
3rd person plural "abulieron" and dually along with "abolieron"

PRESENT SUBJUNCTIVE
1st person singular "abulga"
2nd person singular "abulgas"
3rd person singular "abulga"
1st person plural "abolgamos"
2nd person plural "abolgáis"
3rd person plural "abulgan"


So... you're arguing for a keep, right? Renard Migrant (talk) 13:10, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

User_Gesælig Æsc: I am sorry Renard Migrant I don't really know what you mean by "keep" in that context.
But if you mean that the verbal paradigm I placed as my definite nomination is the one that definitely should be kept for usage then I would have to agree.



I've just heard back from the RAE, and they said that the Diccionario de la lengua española's latest edition, which was published in 2014 and isn't available online yet, recognizes that abolir is no longer defective:
abolir. (Del lat. abolēre. ♦ U. m. las formas cuya desinencia empieza por -i). tr. Derogar, dejar sin vigencia una ley, precepto, costumbre, etc.
As for the correct conjugation of the forms that may diphthongize or otherwise, they also gave me a selection from Nueva gramática de la lengua española, and it says:
Su conjugación es regular, no sujeta, por tanto, a diptongación (yo abolo, no *yo abuelo).
Therefore, the template is entirely unnecessary and should be deleted. Esszet (talk) 14:49, 8 April 2015 (UTC)


The regular conjugation is in cases such as this no more than just an uncreative default resort, not always an optimum one, the RAE's wish to Latinise Spanish rejecting patrimonial qualities in the alleged interest of global comprehension of the Castilian tongue is ludicrous.
Verbs, specially a verb that has so recently become no longer defective ought not be subject to a default conjugation when there are other far more elegant conjugational paradigms this verb can follow, which if I may say so are only rejected for being patrimonial.
Besides like I mentioned above "abolo" sounds more like "I make ball-like" than it ever does "I abolish"
This conjugation template makes perfect analogy with "tener" and "salir" and does not deviate from the conjugational patterns Spanish verbs follow.
At the very least, this verbal paradigm is an alternative.
As most Castilian speakers know the RAE is wildly assuming and rejective of whatever deviates from making Castilian more like Latin.
If it were for the RAE, all languages of the Iberian peninsula would be classified as dialects of Castilian under the name of Spanish, that's why as you may have noticed I switched from saying Spanish to Castilian.
If ever proof should be called upon, one ought but to look at the patrimonial irregular conjugation patterns other tongues have followed in the Iberian peninsula for the same verb. It is only natural and dignifying that Castilian should embrace it's equivalent, many verbs have completely dual conjugations and I never knew a person who having Castilian as their mother tongue couldn't understand a completely irregular conjugation even were it ever unheard by them.

Gesælig Æsc (talk) 15:30, 8 April 2015 (UTC)



There is no "real" consensus on this verb's paradigm, most people don't know this verb is no longer defective. I am merely hypothesising all possible conjugational paradigms and trying to argue about how this one is best among all possibilities. For reasons of unambiguity and euphony. Anyone trying to conjugate the verb will choose any of the five possibilities. I my self have only heard people leaning towards the FIRST one; on the other side the RAE has decided that the verb should be assigned a regular paradigm represented in the FOURTH one. I my self lean towards the SECOND and THIRD with a euphonic weakening of the tonic vowel "o" in the likes of the verb "podrir" (to rot).

Gesælig Æsc (talk) 16:15, 8 April 2015 (UTC)



In as much of what I have been made aware:

PEOPLE tend to make ABOLIR analogous to verbs such like "poder" (to be able to), "soler" (to do usually) and "doler" (to pain).

The RAE says ABOLIR ought to be made analogous to "comer" (to eat), "beber" (to drink) and "romper" (to break).

I personally lean towards making ABOLIR analogous to "poner" (to put down), "tener" (to have) and "valer" (to be worth)

Well, since the RAE is the official authority on the Spanish language, it would be best to make their preferred conjugation the ‘official’ one (at least here) and include a footnote that says that other conjugations of ‘abolir’ (especially abuelo, abueles, etc.) are common in colloquial speech. We're not supposed to try to change languages, only index them. If you'd like to discuss this further, the discussion should probably be moved to the tea room; otherwise, for the reasons outlined above, I say delete. Esszet (talk) 18:14, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Template:l/de[edit]

Nothin special with it. --Dixtosa (talk) 19:08, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Delete. Renard Migrant (talk) 19:12, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Keep and deprecate; it is now used in too many pages. We need to make the page histories legible. Whoever created this and deployed so widely should have thought twice. --Dan Polansky (talk) 20:53, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
    Comment; true, the template is being used in 3,800+ pages at this moment. However, a substantial number of those is just verbs with conjugation tables that use {{de-conj}} (used in 3,500+ pages). In the conjugation table, there is a cell named "auxiliary" that links to exactly two words: haben and/or sein, using {{l/de}}. I am going to change it to {{l|de}}, which will reflect in the verbs pages and will not make their page histories unreadable for this reason, since the historical versions will just keep using the {{de-conj}} template. If there are performance issues as suggested below, feel free to revert. If there are not any performance issues, I'd vote delete. --Daniel 08:27, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
    Related to my message above, {{de-form-adj}} is also using {{l/de}} in 230+ pages. I am going to edit the template now to remove {{l/de}}. --Daniel 16:49, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
    Inflection tables should really use {{l-self}} instead of {{l}} so that forms that are identical to the lemma show up in bold without a link rather than in blue with a link to the same page you're already on. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 08:34, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

I was wrong, there is a specialty - performance. {{l}} calls (1) a module and does some lookup (2) in order to map a language code to a language name, none of which is done byl/xx. Not sure if the overhead is that problematic though. --Dixtosa (talk) 21:20, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Performance was the entire reason for the existence of all of the l/ templates: at the time, the {{l}} template was causing serious perfomance problems in larger pages. Now that it's been switched over to Lua, that's not as much of an issue, but there are still a few huge index pages where I've swapped out l for l/ templates to fix module errors from overrunning the allowed module-execution time. Chuck Entz (talk) 23:28, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
I imagine it could be removed from the main namespace and used only in appendices. Renard Migrant (talk) 15:46, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
Agreed. Note that these specific templates do not have all the capabilities of {{l}}. For example, they lack gloss parameter.
Also, for only few pages that are {{l}}-intensive we can use {{User:ZxxZxxZ/l-list}}--Dixtosa (talk) 00:47, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
Somewhat hilariously, a lot of these templates call {{l}} directly (see {{l/ty}} for a specific example). So they now do the very thing they were created to avoid. Even worse, because they call l but don't allow all its parameters, so they're literally worse than useless. Renard Migrant (talk) 12:12, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Template:oge-noun[edit]

I do not know how to design this template and we do not have Old Georgian entry format standard, so {{head}} is the way to go.

Almost never used. Today it got resurrected and orphaned by me immediately--Dixtosa (talk) 00:37, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

On the face of it, it has plural and uncountable parameters which look useful. Unless Old Georgian nouns do not have plurals (or none that are attestable) and are never uncountable, I'd say keep it. Renard Migrant (talk) 17:49, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
Old Georgian nouns have plural (often two) and they are generally attestable, but they also have 19 other inflectional forms and I am no longer sure plural should be promoted among them. To be honest I was never sure, when I created oge-noun I just mimicked en-noun.
The same applies to ka-noun, unfortunately. I am not sure which form to promote. So in order to not let oge-noun prevail, like ka-noun did, we had better delete it.
I ll recreate it when I am sure.--Dixtosa (talk) 17:07, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Template:nrf-adj-mf[edit]

This should go the way of {{ca-adj-mf}} and {{fr-adj-mf}} and get merged into {{nrf-adj}} with a mf parameter. Renard Migrant (talk) 16:10, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Related terms[edit]

This is currently a redirect to Wiktionary:Semantic relations, which is not a good idea in light of the fact that the Related terms header is explicitly not about semantly relations. I might have just deleted it, but it's been this way since 2010. Chuck Entz (talk) 16:44, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Maybe we can redirect it to Wiktionary:Entry_layout_explained#Related_terms. Dixtosa (talk) 16:48, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
Sounds good to me. Renard Migrant (talk) 15:33, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Keep and redirect to WT ELE as proposed. I instated the proposed redirection since it is such an obviously correct thing to do. --Dan Polansky (talk) 15:41, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Template:translations[edit]

A relic from 2006. Only used in two pages. --Romanophile (talk) 00:05, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

It is, to all intents and purposes, orphaned now. Delete. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 08:00, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
It's a ridiculous unused template, probably not used since its creation in 2006. Just delete it. Renard Migrant (talk) 18:14, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
Deleted. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 18:38, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

May 2015[edit]

Template:short form of[edit]

Why keep a template that has a longer name and does the same thing? --Dixtosa (talk) 14:10, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Because it's just a redirect. Redirects can't really be treated the same as templates. It's used in 26 pages, and even if it weren't, since it's not a misleading redirect I see no reason to delete it. Renard Migrant (talk) 18:16, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
Would you also see no reason to delete Template:contractional form of, Template:shorter form of, Template:short variant of etc. when I create them?
There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it. This makes things easier. This is my zen of code.--Dixtosa (talk) 19:26, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
Alright, not misleading and not created purely to piss people off. Renard Migrant (talk) 19:29, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
If you orphan a redirect and remove all references in help pages, categories, etc., there will be nothing to confuse people. If you delete it, on the other hand, anyplace in the edit histories where the template was used will have an ugly redlink instead of content. Chuck Entz (talk) 20:33, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
Restore {{infl}} then--Dixtosa (talk) 15:41, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
And {{proto}}, {{count page}}, {{term/t}}... —CodeCat 16:12, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Template:l/la[edit]

This is a particularly bad offender among l-subtemplates in that it doesn't have the automatic stripping of macrons from target page names that {{l}} does. For example:

  • {{l|la|ōrdinārius}} gives ōrdinārius. Correct display, correct link
  • {{l/|la|ōrdinārius}} gives ōrdinārius. Right display, wrong link.

So rather than equivalent to {{l|la}} it is inferior to it. Renard Migrant (talk) 15:31, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Keep. In rare cases, macron-, breve-, and diaeresis-stripping (which is done automatically by {{l|la|…}}) is undesirable; see, for example, Citations:conāta and Citations:suscēpit. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 23:56, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
You can prefix the term with : to disable all processing. {{l|la|:conāta}}conāta. —CodeCat 05:45, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Delete, and @I'm so meta even this acronym, you ought to reconsider given what CC added. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 06:01, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Whoa, why do we even have Citations:conāta and Citations:suscēpit? Just because some editors choose to add some diacritics in their learners' editions doesn't mean that conāta and suscēpit are actually alternative spellings of cōnāta and suscēpit that we need to record. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 10:21, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
@Μετάknowledge: Yes, given what CodeCat wrote (thanks, CodeCat), I now vote to delete {{l/la}}. @Aɴɢʀ: The rationale for not having macra in page titles is that they don't occur in running text; macra and breves are rarer than diaereses and acute accents, but they do occur, as you can see. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 13:26, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
They occur all over the place in pedagogical works for Latin learners, like the book the citations given are from. We've decided not to include them in page titles, so I see no need for corresponding Citations-namespace entries for them. Usually if there's a Citations page for a mainspace redlink, it's because there's an expectation that the mainspace entry will be created as soon as there are enough citations for it, but these entries with macrons should never be created. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 13:37, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
@Aɴɢʀ: WT:ALA#Do not use diacritical marks in page names gives "macrons do not appear in written Latin or in reproductions of literature and texts" as a rationale. Since that isn't true in this case, that rationale doesn't apply. "We've decided not to include them in page titles" because of certain reasons; if those reasons are inapplicable, the decision ipso facto becomes inapplicable. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 14:08, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
It's never been true if pedagogical works like this one are taken into consideration. There are plenty of books that show all relevant macrons (rather than just a select few like the book cited does). We have chosen to ignore such works and represent Latin words without macrons, just as we've chosen to show Old English words without macrons (even though the macrons are present in plenty of Old English readers) and Hebrew and Arabic words without vowel points (even though the vowel points are present in editions of sacred texts as well as material for learners). So "macrons do not appear in written Latin or in reproductions of literature and texts" is untrue taken at face value, but it's still good practice to omit macrons for Latin (and Old English) at Wiktionary. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 14:15, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Appendix:Palindromic words[edit]

Appendix:Palindromic phrases[edit]

Based on two old discussions I'm going to link to below, I'd like to delete these two long lists of palindromes of all languages. I've copied the contents of both pages into 55 language-specific appendices like Appendix:Portuguese palindromes.

Discussions:

Also sorry if I did anything wrong with Croatian/Serbo-Croatian in the process, I've just copied all the phrases into Appendix:Serbo-Croatian palindromes. --Daniel 06:54, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Delete both. The languages look much better when they’re separate. Piling them all up in one entry is messy. --Romanophile (talk) 07:19, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
We already have Category:Portuguese palindromes. Why create an appendix? Split Appendix:Palindromic phrases and then delete both. --Dixtosa (talk) 09:06, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
Delete the page of words (but ideally move red links somewhere, e.g. to requested entries). Not sure about the phrases, since they don't merit entries, and I suppose the list is interesting (?). Equinox 17:09, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Does it really make sense to have Appendix:Urdu palindromes, with its two entries? I'm all for breaking out longer lists of palindromes by language, but for the short lists, I see no benefit to splitting them out rather than keeping them together on a page. bd2412 T 17:45, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
Do we really want appendices of palindromic phrases? Anything that meets CFI we can categorize (and we do), but what about non-CFI meeting stuff like madam, I'm Adam? Do we even want that in the appendix namespace? Palindromes aren't lexical anyway, they're mathematical like anagrams. I'd rather we delete the whole lot and just keep the categorization. Renard Migrant (talk) 17:54, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
We should do it with categories rather than appendices. For now, that would cause us to lose the red links, though. Equinox 17:48, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
By all means move them to WT:RE. But being palindromes doesn't make them more urgent as entries. Like I said, palindromes are mathematical not lexical. Renard Migrant (talk) 21:05, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
My opinion as the creator of this discussion: Keep words and phrases in the language-specific appendices. Palindromes are interesting, and they are shown/organized in an interesting way in appendices, with their translations readily available and the words normally organized by letter count, see Appendix:Slovene palindromes.
I don't know whether the aforementioned Appendix:Urdu palindromes is useful as a single page with only 2 instances, I just like how it fits this system which is consistent enough in style and 100% consistent in categorization, which is rare for appendices. Category:Urdu palindromes has 2 entries not mentioned in the appendix, for a grand total of 4 palindromes.
Question: About the suggestion of having a separate page for the languages with few palindromes, isn't it an unnecessary layer of complexity? The way it is now, one can see/navigate all the languages at once since I left them all cross-linked in the See also section. Cases in point: Kabyle and Egyptian have 1 entry each.
Delete Appendix:Palindromic phrases and Appendix:Palindromic words, it is tedious having to scroll to find examples of a particular language and come back to the top for section links. I also don't like having to navigate and search for words and phrases separately if all I speak or want to see is, say, Danish. --Daniel 09:51, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
It wouldn't be tedious if all languages with larger numbers of palindromes were removed, and the only languages on the page were those with only a handful. In that case, I would think that it would be more tedious to look through several different pages of languages with two or three palindromes then to have them all in one place. bd2412 T 14:05, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
Good point. Still the current separate appendices words/phrases are a mess. Also, pages like Appendix:Urdu palindromes are categorized in language-specific categories like Category:Urdu appendices, thus more likely to draw attention of the language's speakers/editors and be improved. Perhaps we could have Appendix:Palindromes (currently a redirect to "Appendix:Palindromic words") with duplicate content from Urdu, Kabyle, Egyptian, etc. and links to all appendices. Personally, I am still leaning towards having just the language-specific appendices with nothing else, but do you and/or think that would be a reasonable compromise? As long as we're keeping palindromes here, while some languages have too few palindromes, I'd argue that languages with a substantial number of palindromes benefit from having their own appendices no matter how you look at them. (Appendix:English palindromes, Appendix:French palindromes, Appendix:Finnish palindromes, Appendix:Danish palindromes, Appendix:Italian palindromes, Appendix:Slovene palindromes, Appendix:Swedish palindromes, etc.) --Daniel 04:48, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Appendix:Afrikaans and Dutch Swadesh lists[edit]

This is a table with Swadesh lists of Afrikaans, Dutch and German. We already have:

Is it useful to have a separate table comparing these languages together? (slippery slope argument: When will we stop? Could Appendix:French and Italian Swadesh lists be created? Or Afrikaans, Dutch and German together is especially useful/interesting, keeping it apart from other combinations?) --Daniel 14:49, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

We do also have Appendix:Swadesh lists for Germanic languages and, for that matter, Appendix:Swadesh lists for Romance languages. I'm not sure how useful Swadesh lists for multiple languages are, since no one uses them for glottochronology anymore. They're not really helpful for language comparison purposes, so why bother having more than one language in a list? —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 17:37, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
Delete per Daniel Carrero. Doesn't even have the right name, it should be Appendix:Dutch, Afrikaans and German Swadesh lists. Before you know it, someone's added on Low German, Danish, Luxembourgish, etc. Renard Migrant (talk) 21:13, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

If no one uses Swadesh lists for multiple languages, perhaps all the cross-language lists should be deleted too? Or should they be kept? The ones listed at Template:Swadesh lists are: Afro-AsiaticAlgonquianAltaicAraucanianAustro-AsiaticAustralianAustronesianBalticBaltic-FinnicBantuCelticDené–YeniseianDravidianFormosanFrisianGermanicHmong-MienHokanIberianIndo-AryanIndo-IranianIndo-Iranian (extended)ItalianMayanMuskogeanNiger–CongoOto-MangueanPaleosiberianPenutianRomanceSino-TibetanSlavicSiouanTai–KadaiTibeto-BurmanTupi–GuaraniTurkicUralicUto-Aztecan --Daniel 08:03, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

For the record:
  • Delete the Dutch/Afrikaans/German appendix, for the reasons I stated above and also per Renard Migrant.
  • Keep the whole bunch of family Swadesh lists, I'm not nominating those for deletion, I was just asking. They seem useful enough. I don't see any harm in them aside from maybe comparetively more work to keep both versions consistent with additions/corrections/whatever. --Daniel 11:31, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
I didn't understand that bit of Angr's comments. I see no harm in keeping them for language families which are well enough defined that we know which languages should and shouldn't be in there. Renard Migrant (talk) 16:48, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
Keep, but remove German. Believe this list could be a good addition to [3]; a Germanic languages list would likely be too cluttered to allow an easy use of it. Morgengave (talk) 19:54, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Template:de-proper noun[edit]

That template needs to be fixed. Plural (and most likely also "Diminutive" and "Gendered forms") doesn't work, or at least seem not to work.
(And there are plurals, diminutives and gendered forms of proper nouns, so it's needed. Examples: plural of China is China (e.g. "die beiden China"), diminutives of "Michael" are "Michel", "Michi", gendered form of "Michael" is "Michaela".) -16:24, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

Why is this here? Renard Migrant (talk) 14:40, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Template:en-suffix[edit]

This template doesn't do anything beyond {{head|en|suffix}}. It also has a rather big shortcoming: it doesn't show inflected forms of the suffix. A noun-forming suffix has its own plural, which can be irregular in any way that any noun derived from it can be. For this reason, the regular part-of-speech templates now accept a suff=1 parameter, which causes the entry to be categorised as a suffix. So for example for -osis, you would have {{en-noun|suff=1|-oses}}, and for -y there would be {{en-adj|suff=1|-ier}}.

This is probably even more important for languages that have more inflected forms, so we may want to examine them as well. —CodeCat 22:12, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Can you do this for {{head}}? --WikiTiki89 22:23, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
There isn't really much point for {{head}} because you can just change the category parameter. —CodeCat 22:25, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
But then it would easy to just add |suff={{{suff|}}} to any template that is implemented in terms of {{head}}. --WikiTiki89 22:30, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
How it's done now is not much harder, see {{et-noun}}. —CodeCat 22:38, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
I would consider {{#if:{{{suff|}}}|suffixes|nouns}}|cat2={{#if:{{{suff|}}}|noun-forming suffixes}} to be much harder than suff={{{suff|}}}. --WikiTiki89 22:41, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
Maybe so, but we should be able to assume a higher level of skill from those editing templates (as opposed to entries). And it's definitely within the capabilities of anyone writing headword-line templates. —CodeCat 22:44, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
It's not so much about skill as it is about ease, quality, and uniformity (as with all code-reuse). If we make it as simple as suff={{{suff|}}}, then it would be difficult to mess it up and we would also be sure that all templates that use this will function the same way. And if we (hypothetically) decide to change category names from "X-forming suffixes" to "suffixes that form X", we would only need to change it in one place. --WikiTiki89 23:07, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
What makes me hesitate here is that we'd end up with two very different ways of accomplishing the same thing; one with the old way and one with the new way. Essentially what you've done is to add a more specific tool that is unlikely to be known or understood by many users, to perform the same function as a much more widely understood tool. This leads to less uniformity as editors will be confused over which method to use, not more. There should be one, and preferably only one obvious way to do it. —CodeCat 23:18, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
If we were to go by that logic, we would just do '''-um''' (''plural'' '''[[-a#English|-a]]''')[[Category:English lemmas]][[Category:English suffixes]][[Category:English noun-forming suffixes]][[Category:English countable nouns]] rather than the totally non-obvious {{en-noun|-a|suff=1}}. There is always going to be more than one way to do things. The best strategy is to have shortcuts for anything that is done often enough. And this particular thing should probably be a feature of almost every headword-line template in existence. --WikiTiki89 23:31, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Keep: Here we go again deleting widely-used templates and needlessly merging them into other templates. There's not really any harm in having two templates that do the same thing; while merging or renaming templates creates piles and piles of bot work and confuses editors. Purplebackpack89 02:23, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
    • You haven't actually given a rationale for keeping. Furthermore, two templates that do the same thing is confusing to editors, and merging and renaming templates is very easy to do with a bot. —CodeCat 10:47, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
      • I gave a rationale against deletion, namely that merging or deleting it would cause too many problems. RfD/O isn't like RfD; whether or not a template like this is kept or merged is wholly subjective and there are few, if any, governing policies. And, no it isn't, really: you just pick one of them (probably the one you first started using when the time arose) and continue using it. Purplebackpack89 13:43, 20 May 2015 (UTC)