User talk:Dixtosa

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Georgian[edit]

Hi, Dixtosa. If you know Georgian well, you might be interested in these request pages: Wiktionary:Requested entries (Georgian), Category:Translation requests (Georgian), Category:Translations to be checked (Georgian), Category:Requests for etymology (Georgian), and Category:Georgian terms needing attention. —Stephen (Talk) 18:23, 22 April 2011 (UTC)


Category:Georgian entries needing etymology--Dixtosa (talk) 14:28, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Welcome on board[edit]

Hi,

Welcome to Wiktionary. Please add {{Babel-8}} to your user page. For example:

{{Babel-8|ka|en-4}}

There are many Georgian requests to be filled! --Anatoli 23:49, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

პლაგიატორი[edit]

I've made a few 'improvements', do you agree with them? Should Georgian script be bolded or not? --Mglovesfun (talk) 10:52, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

I would agree, if i didnt make a mistake XD. sorry . first of all პლაგიატორი doesnt end with ობა :) . second of all i am pretty sure , there are a very little number of words in Georgian ending with ორი. So, i think category(i mean :Georgian nouns ending with ობა) &template(suffix) isn't needed.--Dixtosa 11:04, 14 June 2011 (UTC)


also, Should Georgian script be bolded or not. is it rhetorical question?:)Dixtosa 11:07, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
No, I (any administrator) can turn the automatic bolding off at {{Geor}}. --Mglovesfun (talk) 11:08, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
Why should not be bolded? If in all(probably?) languages use that?Dixtosa 11:16, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
We don't bold Japanese, Chinese or Hebrew. The rest, I think, we do. --Mglovesfun (talk) 11:17, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
And if i think that it doesnt matter? :S. Let it be bolded : )--Dixtosa 11:24, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Čikobava[edit]

I made a template for the Georgian Explanatory dictionary: {{R:ka:GED}}. You can use it like this. --Vahag 13:23, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

thx XD. i was intending to do: )--Dixtosa 13:28, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

პლაგიატი[edit]

Why did you put this into Category:Georgian verbal nouns? I think this category is for Georgian nouns derived from Georgian verbs. Also, doesn't Čikobava say it's from Russian плагиат (plagiat)? You obviously borrowed the word via Russian, not directly from Latin. --Vahag 13:48, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Verbal noun doesn't need to be derived from verb. if a word refers to an action (or a condition) and isnt a verb is verbal noun. In GED words which isnt derived directly is usually said(via russian or via blablabla). in this case that isnt written.
p.s. obviously?XDDixtosa 13:55, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Postpositions[edit]

Hi, i would like to know if Georgian postpositions' entries should appear as "-entry" or simply as "entry". example "-ათვის" vs "ათვის" ? Which way should be used?

As our dictionaries include that words with hyphen, as we in ka.wiktionary.org store with hyphen, i would use hyphen here too.Dixtosa 18:35, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
ok thank you, then please help me to change the -ათვის page to ათვის.
thanks for your help. btw, what do you think of my work?

what do you mean? what works? contributions in Georgian language? i appreciate XD.Dixtosa 21:23, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

that is what i mean, my contributions of georgian, i am no mire than the most humble and inexperienced amateur out there, but knowing, that i will help others appreciate the great beauty of georgian and get acquainted with the language, in order to create a multinacional community of friends of georgia who want to know thw story of the country and eventually gear up everyone's efforts to develop with our minds this blessed by G-d, turning it into the country of us all kartuli fans, makes me put all of my passion into it. and knowing that a natieve giergian appreciates my work, makes me feel extremely fluttered. thx.
:) --Dixtosa 21:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

{{ka-noun-c}}[edit]

I think this can be used for nouns whose stems drop vowels. It just needs an optional second parameter. I can make {{ka-noun-c|წყალ|c'qal|წყლ|c'ql}} do the same thing as {{ka-noun-c-2|წყალ|c'qal|წყლ|c'ql}}. Basically it will be like this: The full code is basically |1=წყალ|2=c'qal|3=წყლ|4=c'ql, so I can make {{ka-noun-c}} use 3= and 4= if they're specified. If they aren't, those will just use 1= and 2=. I dunno if my explanation makes sense, but as long as the case-endings are the same, this would be a very simple change to make. — [Ric Laurent] — 00:31, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

understood... good idea, but wouldn't it overload the code? Dixtosa 12:01, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
no no, it's very simple. It just changes {{{1}}} to {{{1|{{{2}}}}}}. I'll try to do this soon so you can check it Out. — [Ric Laurent] — 12:07, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Stylistic plural[edit]

Gamarjoba! Can you explain me what "stylistic plural" is? I've been searching it on the Internet, failed to be successful so far. For example, what's the difference between საპნები and საპონნი? Thanks in advance :) Sinek 15:43, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

merhaba! : )). Well, I didn't translated it XD. So, it seems to denote pluralization in old Georgian. But this way of pluralization is maintained in modern Georgian. Moreover, sometimes stylistic plural is preferred. So, there isn't any difference except the age of usage XD. Dixtosa 15:52, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
So it's used mainly by elder people? :D Thank you so much! Sinek 15:53, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

IPA[edit]

IPA template should be proceeded by an asterisk (*). Also, should contain either slashes (//) or square brackets ([]). Furthermore, please use lang=ka to indicate Georgian. None of this stuff is vital, but it is nice to keep the format of the dictionary as similar as is possible over our 2.5 million entries. Mglovesfun (talk) 18:36, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Since i use own-made application for this, its no problem for me& i will take it into account : ). thx.
Oh and ʼ isn't an IPA character, is it? Mglovesfun (talk) 18:36, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
:S. dunno. Maybe is for Georgian alphabet only.88.123.102.25 18:45, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

behorn[edit]

Hi there! I see where you have changed put horns => put horns; however, to put horn is not a common idiomatic expression worthy of its own entry, is it? Leasnam 18:42, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Imnt native speaker of english, nor germanist nor scientist somehow focused on English idioms XD. That idiom is googleable(XD) and that means that it deserves a single entry. --88.123.102.25 18:50, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Georgian conjugation[edit]

Hi Dixtosa, do you know much about Georgian conjugation? If so, it would great to include some in Georgian entries. Other languages represented here have conjugation tables for their verbs, such as Russian for example. There is a Russian template {{ru-conj}} which shows the conjugations in a nice template. I'd help, but I know nothing about Georgian, but I know something about conjugation on Wiktionary. Thanks for all the entries. --Rockpilot 16:03, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

No i dont know much. But i know enaugh to make a little(more little than we have here) table that includes all grammatical times with all persons, as i did in Georgian wiktionary(just a table, template for transitive verbs). If you look into it well you 'll notice that the size of a table is half of what we have here. I did it like that simply because i didn't understand what intransitive screeves was; Mayebe it is incorrect. Maybe we do not need such a big table. Maybe we'd better start with simple and then give it a diverse opportunities.
P.S., i always can translate that template (located in Georgian wiktionary) into English.
BTW, this may be used as a guidance.--88.123.102.25 16:35, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi[edit]

Hi there Dixtosa, what's the plural of სექსუალური ორიენტაცია? Sinek 17:20, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

სექსუალური ორიენტაციები. well i have to make templates for two-word phrases. like this.--88.123.102.25 10:10, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
Thanks a lot. Well I'm currently working on sexual orientations in Turkish Wiktionary, and actually kinda busy in real life too :D I may try to update the templates here, based on those in Turkish Wiktionary. But does სექსუალური ორიენტაცია use the same template with არსებითი სახელი, as it ends in -a, and "noun" ends in -i? Sinek 11:49, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
I am busy too XD. No სექსუალური ორიენტაცია dsnt comply with Şablon:ka-ad-ünsüz, and yes, just because ორიენტაცია ends with a. Nouns in couples decline as if it were a single word. I should implement the "second word parameter" in all decl. templates.
btw, "working on sexual orientations" sounds weird man : )).--88.123.102.25 20:31, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
Lol, my point is just to create related words; but yeah, just noticed that it sounds kinda weird to work on sexual orientations :D Sinek 23:45, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
One more question, does ჰეტეროსექსუალი means heterosexual? (And other orientations, ჰომოსექსუალი, ბისექსუალი ...etc.) And if I omit the -i at the end, would I get the adjective form? Like ჰეტეროსექსუალ კაცი, is this true? And lastly, I'm pretty sure there are some vulgar and slang terms for gay, lesbian, top, bottom etc. Could you please tell me? Thanks in advance :) Sinek 11:36, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Well, yes ჰეტეროსექსუალი is identical to heterosexual. And others too. Why on Earth should we have changed the meanings for the international words? : )). No, omitting the last -i doesnt make adjectives. When declining words' couples, the first(i.e. adjectives, I call them definers) declines differently(to be more precise, adjectives do not decline until they become noun(see nominalisation)) comparing to rules for nouns... So, and in two cases:dative and adverbal, adjective dismisses its last letter. How the second word declines I told you in my last post. So, პედერასტი and ცისფერი stand for a gay. But none of these words are vulgar. ლეზბოსელი for lesbian. this too. But believe or not we dont have words for top or bottom XD. or I don't know :S.--88.123.102.25 14:09, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Waow, thanks once more. But one point I couldn't get that, how's the adjective formation? I mean what are the adjectival forms of hetero-,homo-,bi- and asexual? Really? No vulgar terms? That's really surprising :D And really cool :D Sinek 17:07, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
There are some suffixes to make adjectives. But homo- and other blablabla- -sexuals are both: nouns and adjectives as in English.
Yep, no vulgar words for gay and lesbian etc., but a bunch of derogatory terms XD--88.123.102.25 17:17, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
Ah ok it's clear now :D Thanks a million. I don't want to bother you but I really want to know such derogatory terms :) Any examples? Sinek 17:23, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
No problem, bother me. I love being bothered XD.
Oh, lemme not corrupt my talk page XD. Although, i'm sure you know where to get that kind of terms :D. You know there is a good project ,probably you have heard of it, called wiktionary. XD. --88.123.102.25 17:36, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
Aww I love corruption :D Hmm I may have heard of it. Let me google it. LOL anyways thanks a lot :) Sinek 17:47, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Signature[edit]

Could you please not sign with an IP address when logged in, WT:USER does say "[signatures] must not be offensive, misleading or promotional as described above." So please, using My preferences top right, change it. Thank you. Mglovesfun (talk) 18:36, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

What to do about Georgian verbs[edit]

Hi Dixtosa, thanks so much for all your work on Georgian here!

I know you're not too fond of all my requests for entries on Georgian verb forms, but there's some good reasons really.

In case you don't know I'm living in Tbilisi and trying to pick up Georgian by casual study and practice. I'm not doing a course but I do have a few textbooks. I've gotten to the point where I need some understanding of verbs.

Well Georgian is famous for being a difficult language, and its verbs are generally considered to be the most difficult aspect.

On Wiktionary we discussed a few years ago whether we should support inflected forms and later whether we should support forms with attached clitics. In both cases we decided we should ideally support both for a few reasons.

People with only a casual interest in a language may be curious about forms they find "in the wild" but unable to analyse a form into root, derivational morphemes, inflectional morphemes, and clitics.

So nobody's probably going to systematically sit down and try to write an entry for every cliticized version of every inflected, but when they're requested there's nice ways to make entries for those. Stephen G. Brown has made some good ones for instance in a few languages.

But for inflections some people do try to write an entry for each form, or write a bot to make the entries for them. Though of course we never expect anybody ought to go to this trouble but we appreciate it when they do.

So anyway I would like to, if you are interested, try to work together on a format and a set of templates to support really good Georgian verb paradigms and verb form entries. It seems you've already made some very nice templates.

There's lots of information packed into a Georgian verb so there's lots of challenges. Here's some ideas I've been toying with in my head for a few weeks.

  • Always list the root for each verb
  • Always list the preverb(s) each verb takes
  • List which screeve series/subseries it belongs to by name
  • Somehow handle the verbs which are made with several roots by suppletion. (I'm having a lot of trouble with the verbs for "to come/go" if you haven't noticed)

I can hang out in the IRC channel, talk about it here, via email, or meet up in person, whatever you want.

Let me know what you think. — hippietrail (talk) 12:10, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Hello. thank you too.
yep, every verb is irregular in Georgian :D. just kidding. things arent in such an awful state. Simply, they are not researched well, i think. There is no agreement, even this is one's opinion.
Writing a bot and working together sounds really good XD
I can write a template according to the article i mentioned above. I have already done in ka.wiktionary that for transitive words(class I per above). But I dunno if it is most correct, or is it worth writing now? assuming that a good paradigm might be discovered later XD. huh XD.
what about Skype?--Wikstosa (talk) 16:35, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
  • I'm not always logged in to Skype when I'm on the net but I have the same username there: "hippietrail" — hippietrail (talk) 11:45, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
OK, i added you on skype. but we can talk on FB too, if you wish. i am there more often than skype. if you prefer FB, sign in to skype, I will tell my name you there :D.--Wikstosa (talk) 15:31, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

პილენძი[edit]

Hi. Marr is not a serious source and Javakhishvili is a historian, not a linguist. What does Fächnrich's and Sarjveladze's dictionary say? --Vahag (talk) 08:52, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi. hehe, yes "Marr is not a serious source and Javakhishvili is a historian" :/. The word is not written in the Etymological Dictionary of the Kartvelian Languages.--Wikstosa (talk) 20:32, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

გამარჯობა[edit]

გამარჯობა! აი, აქ, ეს სიტყვები, რაცაა მოცემული უნდა ვთარგმნო ხო?--NikaJiadze (talk) 16:33, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

ხო თუ გინდა. ისე სახელზმნები თუ შეგხვდება ჯერ არ შექმნა, მათი შეტანის სტანდარტი(ჰედერის სახელი) არაა შემუშავებული აქ და ვცდილობ დავამკვიდრო. ხოდა შენი აზრით {{ka-verb}} უნდა გამოივყენოთ თუ {{ka-verbal noun}}? აი აქ დავწერე მაგის შესახებ.--Dixtosa 20:57, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

rest[edit]

Hi Dixtosa. Now that I've left Tbilisi to hitchhike around Georgia I've been using my Georgian more conversationally even though I lack 99% of grammar it's been pretty successful. But I feel some important vocabulary gaps. I've requested translations but as you know the req pages and categories are pretty fat right now. Usually the dictionaries I have and can access online are vague about the senses and POSes or just have too many apparent synonyms. So that ones I really need I'll add here. I would be awesome if you felt like adding Georgian entries for them too because usually even when I learn a new verb I can't put it in dictionary form or most basic 1st and 3rd person present forms.

  • rest - has two common senses, one of which is both noun and verb in English: "You can take the rest of my chocolate", "I'm tired and need to rest", "I had a rest and now I can concentrate better".

I'll add more when I need them. Let me know when asking too much! — hippietrail (talk) 10:19, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

fyi, I finally came up with a standard I will be formatting entries consisting Georgiasn verbs, and you prolly want to know. so, cuz not all verbs have verbal noun, i ve decided to use third person future/present form as a dictionary form. So, although დაისვენოს has verbal noun (დასვენება) it is linked to დაისვენებს (third person, in this case, future form)--Dixtosa 13:42, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Request pages[edit]

Hey thanks again for all the fulfilled requests. Now that I'm travelling again and not in Tbilisi anymore I'm finding new gaps in my vocabulary so I'll surely be adding yet more.

But you really shouldn't remove fulfilled requests as soon as you answer them. That's something the requesters should do when he says his requests answered. In the case of ka:requests I guess at least 99% of them are from me (-: If you know you've answered something, and no further comment was made on it, and it's sat there ignored for a good while, then sure go ahead and remove the requests. But you know I'm here regularly if not every day (I just went camping for three days). And since the system provides no way to track requests the best way to do it is to look at the request page for blue links. If you remove the requests the OP won't see those blue links. You can't really expect that a requester will memorize all the words they request, especially if they request a lot or if a request takes a long time to answer.

Also I left a couple blue because I found their entries odd. One was an adjective with an English gloss "bully" which I didn't understand. I should've put a note about it. The other was the Georgian word for "Abkhaz", which I did put a not on that it seems to have another sense because I saw it on a menu. You should watch out for things like this when removing requests 'en masse'.

Other than this peeve, great work (-; — hippietrail (talk) 12:28, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

your right, its hard to remember all requested terms, but i think i eased your work: you dont have to seek for the blues any more :D, just compare versions :D. despite that i will not remove things there from now on :D.
as for abkhaz, are you sure about that? if yes, it may be a spello of აფხაზურა (ap’xazura).
as for bully, its შესანიშნავი. what did you not understand?--Dixtosa 12:07, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
Aha yes შესანიშნავი / bully. That sense of 'bully' is either very old-fashioned or might be used just in some places - not places where I've spent much time. So it doesn't make a good gloss for a word from another language unless the word has similar restricted use. Google Translate comes up with 'excellent' and 'wonderful', which both seem less unusual. By the way 'splendiferous' is also a bit quirky but at least not confusing like 'bully' which has a more common meaning similar to 'thug'. — hippietrail (talk) 09:04, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

By the way, when fixing mistakes like the shuki/shoki shock/electricity thing, it's a good idea to fix it in both directions. I added 'electricity' to the gloss for 'shuki' where it only had 'light', so you might want to check that that was the right thing to do. — hippietrail (talk) 09:04, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

i dont know in what context the word is usually used, but i do know that the mainings are the same. Also, feel very very very (:D) free to change entries made during around 2-10 April 2012 by me :D.--Dixtosa 19:58, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

ქალიშვილი[edit]

გამარჯობა. I was wondering if not ქალიშვილი also has the meanings 'unmarried woman' and 'virgin'; as is suggested by a dictionary I am using. Njardarlogar (talk) 21:24, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

it does have.--Dixtosa 11:53, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Verb paradigm for გადახდა (to pay)[edit]

In studying Georgian verbs and getting nowhere but a sore brain I wonder if you could help me with the conjugation for this word.

For some reason I chose this word because it seemed simple but some of the forms I've found don't fit with the rules in my textbooks. (But I don't have it all written down here to spell out the problems.)

I don't need the whole thing, just the present, imperfect, and future. Thanks. — hippietrail (talk) 05:48, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

third-person present (lexeme), imperfect, future (lexeme)--Dixtosa 20:50, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
2nd-person present, imperfect, future--Dixtosa 20:53, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
1st-person present, imperfect, future--Dixtosa 20:55, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Translation requests[edit]

Woah I see you've been really busy answering tons of my Georgian translation requests - thanks very much! There were lots of basic vocabulary words that were not easy to get from the dictionary due to polysemy etc (-: — hippietrail (talk) 19:47, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

ძვ.[edit]

What is ძვ. an abbreviation of, such as used here? Njardarlogar (talk) 08:38, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

ancient greek.--Dixtosa 12:33, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Zeroth[edit]

Hi again. What is the Georgian word for zeroth (0th)? Njardarlogar (talk) 09:54, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

both can be translated as ნულოვანი--Dixtosa 14:30, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Wordform frequency[edit]

I've been doing some work on Georgian word frequency.

I have a script that will download random Wikipedia articles and convert them to plain text.

I used it to grab 10,000 random pages, then removed the duplicates which resulted in about 9,000 pages still.

I then processed this data with vim to filter out all runs of Georgian letters. (Perhaps I should've permitted hyphens in words too?)

Then I have a script which normalizes the word forms, counts occurrences by normal form and particular form, then outputs a sorted list from most to least frequent, with the numbers.

Would you be interested in this list or the scripts? Or is their a place on Wiktionary to include it?

So far normalization only treats upper and lower case the same so is irrelevant for Georgian, but I can add whatever functionality to it.

I didn't think of supporting Asomtavruli and Nuskhuri at the time. I can make separate lists or add them to the normalization.

What I really want to add to the normalization is lemmatization though. Of course Georgian morphological analysis in notoriously tricky (-:

I don't know whether you have or want to acquire any programming experience, but you are more than welcome to help out if you find this interesting.

I also have a web app I've been working on to convert between Georgian script and transliteration. So far it works 100% correctly with the official transliteration we use here but I'm planning to add support for all other schemes too.

hippietrail (talk) 07:22, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Update: I've put the first 1,000 here: Wiktionary:Frequency_lists/Georgianhippietrail (talk) 12:44, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
line by line (:D):
1,2)wow
3) very interesting :D in terms of mathematical probability.
4) yes you should.
5) since your normalization "only treats upper and lower case" is useless.
6) yes im interesetd in both. BTW, have you compared the list you obtained with the list I gave you in FB ?(if not it would be interesting to check. I hope the chat messages survived the deactivation of my FB account :D)
7) we can only add noun and adjective normalization, of course: If we could also add verb normalization there would be no difficulty making templates, making verb-form articles that you request etc.
8) Supproting Asomtavruli and Nuskhuri is an earthly redundant thing to waste time for, at this moment.
9) I repeat, noun lemmazation is quite possible (with the help of Georgian words' databases, one of which I have)
10) Of course It interests me, but i can not really understand a purpose of it. If you want to normalize all words in frequency list: I am here! :D (btw, I think that noun and verb forms need not to be lemmatized. If X is more common than its lemma Y, then X is still more common than Y :D). If you just want to ease your work - guessing lemmas, then use the software I have suggested to you in FB's chat (again FB :D).
11) As for me, I have python script for this :D. And it works 100% (sometimes even more :D) too.
12) Well, I will not touch noun/verb forms, but as I am (was) experienced user in ka:wikipedia, I'll remove all in-fact-not-frequent words :D. OK? One of the examples of such words is ქსე (abb. of ქართული საბჭოთა ენციკლოპედია - Georgian Soviet encyclopaedia), which is a name of widely used template in ka.wiki.--Dixtosa 12:09, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Well it's really hard to read your replies non interleaved so I guess I'll respond likewise. Sorry in advance if I get lost and mess it up ...

If you like I can put the source of all my Georgian-related tools up on Github. So far I just have the one I made to sort the Georgian requests page. I just added transliteration support to it: https://gist.github.com/1858881

So far only upper/lower case is supported. It's not useful for Georgian but the script works on any language. It could fold Asomtavruli and Nuskhuri but it turns out they're very rare even on ka.wikipedia. It could normalize hyphenated terms as unhyphenated variants if such exist. Etc.

I noticed you're not on Facebook anymore. I can't access our old messages. I'm not sure I kept any links you gave me there )-:

For nominal lemmatizing we would need to do steps: remove clitics such as -ts and -a, remove postpositions which are written as part of the word, remove case endings, remove plural morpheme if it's there, replace nominal case ending. But of course some of these steps are ambigous, some include messing with the final vowel, some include dropping a letter such as in megobari->megobrebi, and doubtless some stuff I forgot about and some stuff I never heard of. Oh and there's possibly some irregular forms. All while being sure not to allow bogus forms like megobarebi to slip through.

As it happens supporting Asomtavruli and Nuskhuri took almost no extra effort and in my sample of 10,000 pages I only got three words in Asomtavruli and none at all in Nuskhuri!

I can also use Wiktionary itself as a database of Georgian lemmata, as long as our format is standardized enough that I can parse it. I've done tons of Wiktionary dump file parsing before but haven't touched it for over a year now so I'm rusty and I'm sure my scripts are too.

If you really want to lemmatize the entire list by hand you are welcome. I can put the list itself up on github.

Lemmatizing tells us which words are most common rather than which forms are most common. So we would know how common "megobari" is even if it only gets 30% of occurrences and the rest is split between "megobrebi" and "megobrebis" or whatever. This is useful to me as a Georgian learner even if it's less interesting to Wiktionary. But I think it's interesting to both.

I never managed to get the software to work that you linked in Facebook, and now I don't even have the link.

Instead of removing the nonwords, could you just strike them out with

<s>

and follow them with a comment on why. That way I can code around them when getting new random samples in the future.

hippietrail (talk) 13:45, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

კლდე (klde)[edit]

Does კლდე (klde) also mean rock as translate.ge says it does? It's missing in the gloss here which only has less common English words. I could also add it to the See also section of "kva", "qenchi", etc. — hippietrail (talk) 08:41, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

ოვანი[edit]

Hi, I feel like bothering you again. What does ოვანი mean? It is used in the following sentence here: გრიგორიანულ კალენდარში არ არსებობს 0-ოვანი საუკუნე [...]. Thanks in advance. Njardarlogar (talk) 18:41, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

I just realised that 0-ოვანი could be interpreted as ნულოვანი. Is -ოვანი a suffix or a common word ending, perhaps? Njardarlogar (talk) 22:56, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
Yes, 0-ოვანი is to be interpreted as ნულოვანი. I am not sure about the suffix (because Georgian explanatory dictionary doesnt have an entry for that), but at least it is productive. I remember several words ending with that sequence of characters (BTW, it is not limited to only numbers). see კუთხოვანი for insatnce.--Dixtosa 16:19, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

దయ్యం[edit]

Hi, could you create an entry for this? :) Just thought it would be nice to have an actual entry seeing as I just deleted it after it was created with gibberish text. 50 Xylophone Players talk 13:20, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi, but i dont know Telugu (as GT suggested) at least it is not Georgian ))--Dixtosa 13:25, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
Palkia is racist :) To him all squiggly letters look the same. --Vahag (talk) 14:10, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
Hush up with your assumptions Vahagn. :P But, yeah I was in a hurry, so I didn't check ghost from the "what links here"...I just thought it was Georgian, easy mistake to make when you haven't studied the language. :P 50 Xylophone Players talk 14:13, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
LOL. Mglovesfun (talk) 20:16, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:ka-noun-[edit]

These are all from April 7th and 8th. Could you take a look?

Thanks in advance,
RuakhTALK 20:14, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

caw[edit]

կռչեմ is Old Armenian. Where did you get it? --Vahag (talk) 22:03, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

I found it in this book while searching for agrav. Oh wait, the last reviewer is you, yeah?:D--Dixtosa 22:21, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
Yeah. I use that dictionary all the time ({{R:xcl:Bedr}}), but it's for Old Armenian. This is a very nice Modern Armenian dictionary. And this. --Vahag (talk) 23:11, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

არის[edit]

Isn't this a form of the stem -არ-, like ვარ (var) is? Whatever the case, both entries should point to the lemma form here on Wiktionary. These are pretty crucial forms/words, so they should be treated in the best possible manner on Wiktionary. :-D Njardarlogar (talk) 19:42, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Probably it is, but I am not sure. არის is itself a lemma here :D.--Dixtosa 10:27, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

ააბარგებს[edit]

Hi, Dixtosa.

In ააბარგებს, shouldn't the masdar in the conjugation table be აბარგება? Thanks, Malafaya (talk) 11:49, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

As you may have already noticed that template is not finished yet. Yes, it would be better but much better if the template used verbal noun instead of masdar (as defined here, it's arabic verbal noun)--Dixtosa 11:55, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
I actually meant if the "tense" (perfective verbal noun/masdar) is correct in that table? Malafaya (talk) 13:44, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
I guess that I guess nothing :D. Verbal noun/masdar tense cannot be correct just because it is not a masdar at all.--Dixtosa 18:16, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Talk:ჭრიჭინა[edit]

Hi,

Could you shed some light on this, please? --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 04:54, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

ბოშა-ქალი[edit]

Hi! Do you think this is sum-of-parts? It looks that way to me ("[[ბოშა]]-[[ქალი]]"), but I don't speak Georgian and I don't know if hyphenated sums-of-parts are allowed. - -sche (discuss) 09:15, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi. So, in other words you are intereseted in the role of a hyphen in the Georgian language, yeah?. It's hard to say, and also to find a source considering this matters, so all is up to my intuition :D. Err, my intuition suggest that we keep it for a while. Anyways, if I come acroos or come up with the same idea, I will tag it with RfD so you will get the answer.--Dixtosa 10:24, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Georgian lemma forms for verbs[edit]

Hi. I've made an example layout for how to handle the lemma form of verbs in Georgian. Let me know what you think. I personally think it would be best to give the English infinitive (and not "he/she/it will build him/her/it/them"), since it is a lemma form after all. Then the information regarding which form of the verb is considered the lemma would be provided in some other manner/elsewhere. I think they do something similar with Welsh verbs? Njardarlogar (talk) 10:57, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi.
First of all ააშენებს(future) is not a lemma here, but აშენებს (present), as we (or I xD) prefer a present form to be the lemma when a certain root can produce both forms: present and future (not every root can hold both tenses, rather the majority has only either presnet or future forms, producing either imperfective or perfective verbal nouns respectively).
Secondly, I, personally, would never go (at least manually) into depth like that. Besides, I dont think we need them now.
Thirdly, yeah he/she/it VERB him/her/it/them is the only drawback and embarrasingly bad thing about lemmas being verb forms. But you should see Latin lemmas (they also have verb form as the lemma).
Forthly, yeah "the information regarding which form of the verb is considered the lemma" would be nice... and I will do sooner or later.
I have no idea what Welsh verbs are like.
BTW, what's wrong with აკეთებს it is very informative--Dixtosa. 11:57, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
The deconstruction bit was to provide information on the various affixes (-ებ, -ს etc.), but their might be smarter ways of doing that (specifying which conjugation and so on).
აკეთებს lacks information on the root (-კეთ-), wouldn't it be best for the root to always be listed? Now you have to do stuff like recognising ა- and -ებ-ს in order to find the root, so you would need to know quite a bit about Georgian grammar already. Then again, one might not get that far with only the root, anyway.
I see now that the Latin lemmas are described in the same way, and it strikes me as a bit odd, as you may not be interested in that particular verb form at all. Njardarlogar (talk) 12:46, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
It is not the best idea but, yet, root truly is the useful information, but only in the etymology line, because the root is not usually an inflection of a verb form. Yes Latin & Georgian verbs' formatting are a bit obscure especially for nonnative speakers, but that is the best solution that I have come up with so far.
Regardless of what just has said, I would add root argument to ka-verb if you must. _-_Dixtosa. 15:09, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

I have just started reading about the verbs in detail, so I will drop the topic for now. By the way, which is the best lemma for the verb 'to read' according to you, then? (verbal noun კითხვა) კითხულობს? --Njardarlogar (talk) 19:15, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

see კითხვა. btw, feel free to suggest some ideas regarding formatting Georgian verbs. she/he/it method is, though working, but ugly to see. it's not late yet.--Dixtosa. 15:31, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

ატარებს[edit]

It looks like something's wrong with the conjugation table. Ultimateria (talk) 15:22, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Requested entries (Hebrew)[edit]

The more information you can give, the more likely that we can figure out or find out what you're thinking of. Did you come across these words somewhere? —RuakhTALK 17:51, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

They are just possible etymologies of some Georgian words, particularly
Several arguments rationalise this assumption:
  1. All aforementioned words, along with other Georgian words(see ბაითი, გოიმი) that most probably derived from Hebrew, are slang terms and came into the language colloquially.
  2. There were a great number of Jews in Georgia and as a result there is even a language called Judaeo-Georgian which has many Hebrew loanwords.
--Dixtosa_HERE IT IS xD_ 18:39, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Ex libris[edit]

Your edit here turned the plural form of "ex libris" into "ex libriss", which seems to be incorrect. I don't know how the Latin templates you used work, but maybe you could give it a look? Mr.choppers (talk) 22:16, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

ჩაიდანი#Pronunciation[edit]

Hi, shouldn't this be /tʃʰɑɪdɑnɪ/? If no, why is it transliterated with "'"? --Z 12:33, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

I actually used ka:დახმარება:IPA/ქართული IPA chart.
Dunno why it is transliterated so--user:Dixtosa 14:35, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Sandbox module[edit]

Everyone is allowed to make a module with their username (Module:User:Dixtosa) for testing purposes. —CodeCat 17:32, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

 : ))--user:Dixtosa 17:54, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Thoughts about improvements for Georgian[edit]

ბარო ბიჭო! So I've become a bit active in Georgian again, actively studying a lot at home and working on some software tools for stemming and analysing inflected Georgian words.

I've come to the conclusion that we really should include some additional information in the Georgian verb headword line to help non-Georgian-speakers with the difficulties of the languages.

I'm still struggling to learn Georgian verbs so correct me on any misunderstandings.

Lexical parts of Georgian verbs:

  1. Version vowel / Versioner / Pre-radical vowel -- optional
  2. Preverb -- optional
  3. Stem -- Mandatory
  4. Thematic suffix / Present-future stem formant / PFSF -- optional

By lexical I mean these parts of the verb must be learned when learning a new verb to be able to inflect it for tense, aspect, mood, etc. The other parts of the verb I didn't list because they're only used for inflection.

Now it's very hard for a non Georgian speaker to use a Georgian dictionary even when they know a bit about the language and know the alphabet. Just deciding which form is the lemma, and which parts are necessarily present in the lemma form is difficult.

Of the dictionaries, grammars, phrasebooks, teaching aids for Georgian I have, they do not agree on which form is the lemma. The dictionary definitely uses a verbal noun, I think perfective, but I'm not positive. The teaching aids each use different ways to include some of the information. They handle preverbs and noun class best but are less successful with version and PFSF.

I think we should try to include, for each verb lemma entry, specifically, all these parts clearly laid out, plus the noun class.

Even when you know all the preverbs there can be ambiguity in that the same sequence of letters is possible among the verb stem and version vowel. I think this is most common with the preverb მი-.

For each verb lemma entry should state whether the verb has a preverb or not, and what the preverb is.

Version vowels are also very tricky and I still don't understand everything. The books try to describe them but they all have ambiguous language which doesn't completely clarify them.

It seems each verb might "have" a version vowel, and if it does, it can be any of ა-, ე-, ი-, or უ-.

What I don't know is if it "has" a version vowel, will it have it in the lemma form when the lemma is the 3p singular present indicative? Sometimes I'm trying to look up a verb. I look look up the spelling starting with the preverb. If it's not there I start looking up starting at the next letter. Sometimes I've noticed that if the next letter is an ა that I might find it there in some dictionaries, but sometimes, in some dictionaries, I might have to look for it under the next letter.

So I know the version vowel changes depending on several factors, including the tense/screeve, the transitivity the person and number of direct and indirect objects, and the verb class. This is why I've used "scare quotes" when I say a verb "has" a version vowel. Because all verbs seem to have them depending on the inflection, but only some seem to have them even in the lemma form.

For every verb we need to state in the inflection line whether that verb "has" a version vowel, whether it's "always" there including in the lemma form, or whether it only occurs once you start inflecting, and of course which vowel it is for this verb. Remember that sometimes there seems to be a vowel at the beginning of the root so just because we can see one in the headword we (non native Georgian speakers) don't know if it's a version vowel or just a vowel that happens to be there.

Of course every verb has a stem and though they never occur on their own it's very important for foreign learners of the Georgian language to be able to spot them. For one thing knowing the stem helps you to find the word in dictionaries and word lists that don't use the same lemma form that Wiktionary uses.

Then for every verb we need to state whether the verb has a PFSF or not, and if so, which PFSF it has. This is also murky to us non Georgians because sometimes it seems some other PFSF will change into ებ in some inflections and words which don't use a PFSF in the lemma can appear with one in other forms, though in that case I think the PFSF is always the same and not "lexical". Also the PFSF ი being a single letter doesn't stand out and can probably also be a source of ambiguity. I don't know if ი can every be the last letter in a stem or if it can occur at the beginning of the suffixes that come after the stem and/or PFSF. But when you're learning you just don't know and it's very confusing.

For English verbs in Wiktionary we list transitive or intransitive. We could do this for Georgian verbs but it's another area that seems more complicated than English. All sources sort Georgian verbs into classes numbered with Roman numerals from I to IV. Besides that they differ and use words such as transitive, intransitive, active, passive, bipersonal, tripersonal, unipersonal, ergative, unergative, etc. These are just the words I can recall right now but there are others. I'm not sure which if any of this information we should include. But verb class / conjugation class is standard so we should include that.

Then there are some other parts of the Georgian verb which I haven't even tried to learn yet, such as the two different morphemes which can turn an active verb into a passive verb. I believe one is a prefix and one is a suffix. I'm not sure if either can lead to ambiguity in having similar letters to other parts of the verb which may occur just before or after them.

The next thing to think about is how to display this information. I think this matters less and can be tweaked as part of the templates. Let me use an imaginary verb stem "foo" (ფუუ) (-:

We could explicitly label each section.

შეაფუუებს (shefuuebs) class I preverb შე (she) version ა (a) stem ფუუ (fuu) theme suffix ებ (eb)

გამოფუუა (gamofuua) class II preverb გამო (gamo) version - stem ფუუ (fuu) theme suffix -

Or we could just leave out the labels since users will have read the About Georgian pages to learn the specifics of Georgian entries and do something like:

შეაფუუებს (shefuuebs) class I შე-ა-ფ-ბ

გამოფუუა (gamofuua) class II გამო--ფუუ-

Another way we could do it is with colour. Of course this would only help people who are not colourblind so we could use it along with the above formats.

We could include hyphens after the prefixes and before the suffixes, and how we should indicate missing optional parts, especially two missing in a row, could be done other ways. Perhaps X or ? or * or Ø, which is common in linguistics for missing "null" morphemes.

We could also think about whether to treat verbal noun entries as a kind of secondary lemma since they are used by some dictionaries and some users may be more used to them. I for one am never positive which parts are always included, always omitted, or optional in verbal nouns. I know the presence vs absence of the preverb distinguishes perfective from imperfective verbs. But I never know about version vowels and PFSF when it comes to verbal nouns. Maybe including just the noun class would be sufficient?

What do you think? Having these features will certainly help me understand Georgian verbs more quickly and make more sense of using my dictionaries and other Georgian books and resources. Then I'll be able to start making my own "form of" entries for those tons of red links I've added to the Georgian requested entries page (-: — hippietrail (talk) 08:08, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

ბერძენი[edit]

Dixtosa джан, я тебе один умный вещь скажу, но только ты не обижайся. ბერძენი is a good candidate for WT:FWOTD, but it needs pronunciation and one citation. Can you add those? --Vahag (talk) 21:27, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

@Vahagn Petrosyan: I think the etymology you provided is in fact a folk etymology. So I will find another one for FWOTD.
btw, where did you get the etymology from?--Dixtosa (talk) 18:05, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
I got it from Wikipedia. See Names of the Greeks, end of paragraph 3. It has several sources. --Vahag (talk) 18:49, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

How to figure out the Wiktionary lemma of a Georgian verb[edit]

I see you still haven't gotten around to responding to my previous wall of text so here's a practical example.

We don't have a Georgian translation for the English "to lie" as in "tell an untruth".

I want to add it but of course my dictionaries use the masdar as the lemma form. My dictionary lists მოტყუება. I don't know whether it belongs to conjugation I, II, III, or IV. I can see it has the preverb მო- and the PFSF -ებ, which leaves the root as ტყუ. I see most of the verb lemmas here end in -ს but not always and I'm not sure if our lemma should have the preverb or not, or whether it might need a pre-radical / version vowel that's not in the masdar. So I look at some Georgian wordform lists. Here on English Wiktionary the only related entry is მოტყუებით but in my collection of Georgian Wikipedia entries I find some more, a couple of which look like they could be the lemma I'm looking for: მოტყუება, ატყუებს, იტყუება. The first seems less likely since it ends in a vowel. The second has the expected -ს ending and doesn't have the preverb, which I guess is normal for the form we use as lemma? But it does seem to have a pre-radical/version vowel ა-. This seems to be the most usual version vowel in lemma forms but my reading tells me you have to remember the version vowel with a verb since it can't be determined logically. Which makes the third form also a possibility.

Can you help clarify this for me so I can contribute Georgian verb entries and translations in English verb entries? — hippietrail (talk) 03:25, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

I am having final exams in university, and ill reply both of your posts when I'm finished.--user:Dixtosa 10:13, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
Aha - წარმატებებს გისურვებ!! (-: — hippietrail (talk) 11:36, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

და სხვ[edit]

Is სხვ an inflected form of სხვა? --Njardarlogar (talk) 11:32, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Nominals, at least adjectives, drop the case ending in a couple of cases when used attributively. I forget which cases for now. — hippietrail (talk) 09:47, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
@Njardarlogar, No.--user:Dixtosa 09:55, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
Ah I see it's only dative and adverbial cases and only for adjectives ending in -ი Wikibookshippietrail (talk) 09:56, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
Alright; so what is სხვ then? Found e.g. here in this context: მდინარე ძირულას ხეობაშია გაშენებული სოფლები ქვედა წევა, ბორითი, შროშა და სხვ. It seems to mean "others". --Njardarlogar (talk) 14:49, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
@Njardarlogar: სხვ. is an abbreviation of სხვა (sxva). and yes this is very dumb abbreviation.--Dixtosa (talk) 18:08, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

ენების სახელები[edit]

გამარჯობათ. Is the ena bit such an integral part of names of languages in Georgian that we need pages like სომხური ენა rather than having the sense 'language' covered at the page სომხური? --Njardarlogar (talk) 14:41, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

In my optinion, it is not. And I tried didn't I? At least I did that.--user:Dixtosa 17:52, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

რედაქტირება[edit]

თუ რაიმე სასიცოცხლო ინფოს ამოვშლი, შეგიძლია ხელახლა ჩაამატო. ეტიმოლოგიებს ვასწორებ, სიტყვების დამახინჯება კი არ მაქვს მიზნად. ქართველი არა ხარ? --Dj777cool (talk) 21:25, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

მეღადავები? შენი ამოშლილები მე ვამატო? ჩემ სტატიებზე სადაც წყარო მაქ მითითებული უმეტესობაზე წყაროდ მაქვს ქეგლი (რეფერენსებში არ მიწერია ხოლმე უბრალოდ). --user:Dixtosa 09:51, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Imperfective/perfective verbs[edit]

გამარჯობა,

I have a question. Do Georgian verbs have imperfective/perfective aspect distinction? Do they exist in pairs, like Russian де́лать impf (délatʹ, to do, to be doing)/сде́лать pf (sdélatʹ, to do, to have done)? მადლობა. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 00:14, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

@Atitarev: well, I changed {{ka-verbal noun}} using ru-verb as a model, because, yes, I found it very similar to Russian infinitives.
Not entirely like Russian though - Georgian pf and impf forms are kind of interchangeable (unlike Russian), and Georgian impfs don't produce future tense. But other than that they are really alike. For example, pfs only produce past and future tenses in both languages. And they exist in pairs (and sometimes either pf or impf is missing from a pair)
btw, why ask? is it like a seldom thing or what?--Dixtosa (talk) 21:19, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for answering. One reason is the tool User:Conrad.Irwin/editor.js, which now has impf/pf labels for all Slavic languages. It may need the same for Georgian, if you confirm that's required. Yes, it's quite rare. I only thought that Slavic languages have this feature. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 23:21, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
The thing is, my understanding of Georgian verbs is still poor and, as a result, situation of Georgian verbs is messed up here XD. So let's just avoid bold decisions and wait until I have a solid, less prone-to-change idea about how we treat Georgian verbs and verbal nouns.--Dixtosa (talk) 17:59, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Grease_pit/2014/January#Template:ka-conj-table-transitive[edit]

Seeing as you were the one who designed this template, I thought you should be informed of this discussion. Thanks. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 07:09, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

wiktionary:Translation requests#Georgian to English[edit]

Hi, could you take a look at this? 83.83.1.229 12:05, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Module error[edit]

There's a module error introduced by your code for the Georgian word for "moon". Take a look at Category:Pages with module errors.

Benwing (talk) 12:14, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Wikitoslav[edit]

I'm pretty sure you added that entry to my website! :D Thank you for doing that! NativeCat drop by and say Hi! 03:09, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

ვიზუალური ლექსიკონი[edit]

ქართულ საკვანძო ტერმინებს ( თავი, სახე, სხეული ) ისეთივე გრაფიკები შევუსაბამე ტერმინებითურთ, როგორც უცხოურებს აქვთ. შეგიძლია შენც დამეხმარო. ისე მიკვირს, აქამდე რატომ არ გააკეთე ეს უჩემოდ. :)) აქედან რაც ყველაზე საჭიროა იმეებს გავაკეთებ, როცა მოვიცლი [[1]]. --ReordCræft (talk) 22:34, 2 March 2015 (UTC)