User talk:Alifshinobi

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Hi, we do have interwiki bots, so there's no need to add them manually (they'll get added when we get our next XML dump). I'm not telling you to stop, because it does no harm - but it's a bit pointless. Yours Conrad.Irwin 19:01, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

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We hope you enjoy editing Wiktionary and being a Wiktionarian. Conrad.Irwin 19:01, 10 June 2008 (UTC)



For your information, we have a bot Interwicket that reads indexes of all Wiktionaries and adds interwiki periodically in automated way. This is not like Wikipedia, where article names differ on different projects; since the entry names are the same on all wiktionaries, adding interwiki is 100% automatable. You might wanna spend your time here in a more productive way (like adding translations etc.) ^_^ Cheers! --Ivan Štambuk 19:06, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Thai etymologies[edit]

First of all, let me say thank you for the Thai entries. A couple of tips: First, {{etyl}} adds some nice formatting to entries when used. Simply put the ISO code of the etymon language as the first parameter and that of the recipient language as the second. It does the linking and adds the entry to the appropriate category. Also, {{term}} also does some convenient things, such as including a script template, a language specific link, and a standardized ordering of translation and transliteration. Finally, I believe we're following IAST, and so using diacritics in the transliterations instead of capitalized letters (you'd have to talk to Ivan Štambuk about that to be sure, he's doing most of our Sanskrit). If you would like some examples, take a look at some of your recent edits (you'll find me fresh on your heels). Any questions, feel free to ask, and thanks again. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 02:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

First off, your etymology format is perfect (there are few who can pick up all of our syntax so quickly). However, I had a question about some of your definitions not matching up with the given POS's. For example, ความสุข is marked as a noun, but is given two adjectival definitions, and นิทรา is also marked as a noun with adjectival definitions. May I ask what's up with those? -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 06:18, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Thank you very much. Your previous comment on my page, apparently, had helped me a whole lot. To answer your question, it's quite hard to explain, for adjective words are rarely used in Thai. And yes, the Thai words are actually nouns. Now that you've told me, I will change happiness to joy;blithe to delight. How's that?User:Alifshinobi talk 11:28, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Sounds good. And yeah, sometimes the syntax of foreign languages doesn't match up to English terribly well. Sometimes it helps to have the definition technically correct, and note how it works in a ====Usage notes==== section. So, perhaps you could have "sleep" as a definition, and then a usage note saying, "usually used in an adjectival sense". A Thai example (with translation) could also be useful. Thanks again for all your good work. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 06:38, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


Hi Alif! :)

Very interesting work you're doing with Thai there, amazing to see that many Sanskrit loanwords!

tr= parameter for various templates such as {{infl}} is supposed to be used for transliteration/romanization purposes, not for pronunciation (as that is I assume is what you're doing now, with those IPA symbols?)

There is ===Pronunciation=== header intended for the purpose of phonemic/phonetic transcription, per WT:ELE, just below the ===Etymology===, so I think that these should go there.

Also, I don't know if you were aware of it, but there is Wiktionary:About Thai where guidelines for Thai are suppose to go. That page needs lots of love at this moment. Feel bold to update it! Cheers --Ivan Štambuk 02:36, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Hey Ivan Štambuk,
How are you doing? Well, thank you very much for letting me know, before it's too late. I'll probably taking a little break for now. I feel like I'm the only one working on the Thai parts. Aww, I'm going to have to go back to those pages again. :_(
Thanks again anyway for your wonderful comment. :)--Alifshinobi 02:40, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Bear in mind that it's really not the end of the world if those entries stay as they are for a little while, so if it's really tedious to do them now, don't. Wiktionary has a lot of formatting conventions, and a lot more areas where we haven't even really figured out how we want to do things. There were a number of things which I could've done better with some of my earlier Ancient Greek entries, so I can sympathize with how irritating it can be to have to go back and re-do a bunch of stuff. What you may want to consider doing, if you're serious about beefing up our Thai section (a task which I would positively love to see happen), is creating a model page. Create an entry and take some time and make it the most complete entry you possibly can. Have some people look it over and give feedback. That'll allow you to iron out some of the formatting issues before they're part of a hundred entries. :-) This is especially important since we don't have any well-established languages related to Thai. It has been my observation that each language family has its own special formatting needs. Indo-European language format is fairly well-established (for obvious reasons) and Sino-Tibetan seems to be fairly standardized at this point, but Semitic languages are still working out just how they want to do things. It can be frustrating to be the only one working on a language, but there are advantages. You get to figure out and decide a lot of things for yourself. Certainly you should get community input, but ultimately, if you're the only one working on a language, you get to call a lot of the shots (bear in mind I'm not granting you carte blanche ;-)). Take the transliteration, for example. Based on some of the things DAVilla (someone you might want to get in touch with, btw) has noted on Wiktionary:About Thai, perhaps an IPA transliteration system is the best that can be done for Thai. However, it is different from how most languages do transliterations, and so definitely needs to get community discussion first. One final thing, while Wiktionary is positively frosty to people who are problematic, you'll find we're quite nice to folks who are putting in a lot of good work. So, if you have questions, or need a template written, or whatever, there are a lot of folks around who would be more than happy to help out. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 03:37, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

한국어 위키낱말사전에도 바벨이 있어요.[edit]

Can you speak to Korean? I'm comtributing in Korean wiktionary. 한국어위키낱말사전에도 바벨이 있어요. See the ko:위키낱말사전:바벨 상자. -- 03:25, 26 June 2008 (UTC

Do you have a Korean Wiktionary password? If you take part in Korean Wiktionary, you should have to use a Babel. You have a babel in English Wiktionary. Me, too. So, You should have a bebel. But this is not responsiblity. -- 02:13, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Thai restaurant menu terms[edit]

Hi there. We have a number of pages linked from Appendix:Menus, but not one for Thai food as yet. Do you think you could hava a go? One problem is that we are not supposed to add transliterations of words in non-Latin scripts - so gai ob chaplu (I think that's what I had yesterday) might not be allowed. Cheers SemperBlotto 10:21, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

  • P.S. A translation of "Baan Thitiya" (as in [1]) would be welcomed. SemperBlotto 10:27, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Category:Tai Lü nouns[edit]

{{khb}} is the correct template? Either the template needs to be changed or everything should refer to simply . Nadando 20:29, 3 February 2010 (UTC)


Hi there. When making an entry, could you please wikilink the important terms using brackets like this: [[impoverished]]. Thanks, Razorflame 05:04, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

You don't need to include periods at the end of the definitions, either. They are translation defintions, so periods aren't used, nor are full sentences unless they are absolutely needed. Razorflame 05:15, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Thai Headword Templates[edit]

Hi, have you ever thought about using the templates {{th-noun}}, {{th-verb}}, and {{th-adj}}? It results in lesser bytes for your entries. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 02:07, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Some Thai audio files[edit]

  1. สวัสดีครับ.
  2. ไฟล์ดังต่อไปนี้, ช่วยอัดเสียงใหม่ให้ถูกต้องและอัปโหลดใหม่ได้ไหมครับ:
    1. File:Th-khwaamrak.ogg;
    2. File:Th-chinese.ogg.
  3. ไฟล์ที่มีอยู่เป็นการออกเสียงที่ไม่ถูกต้องดังนี้:
    1. "ก" [k̚] เป็นพยัญชนะกัณฐชอโฆษสิถิล (voiceless unaspirated velar plosive). ออกเสียง "ความรัก" ว่า "ความรัคคคค" จึงไม่ถูก.
    2. "จ" [tɕ] เป็นพยัญชนะตาลุชอโฆษสิถิล (voiceless unaspirated palatal plosive). ออกเสียง "จีน" ว่า "ชชชชญญจีน" จึงไม่ถูก.
  4. ถ้าไม่อาจอัปโหลดใหม่ได้, ขอให้คุณแจ้งลบไฟล์เหล่านั้นที่คอมมอนส์ได้ไหมครับ, เพราะ:
    1. บอตจะคอยลงไฟล์ตลอด, และเจ้าของบอตแจ้งว่า ไม่อาจห้ามบอตได้, ต้องลบไฟล์สถานเดียว;
    2. เจ้าของไฟล์แจ้งลบเอง ไม่มีขั้นตอนยุ่งยากเหมือนคนอื่นแจ้งลบ.
  5. ขอบพระคุณครับ.

--iudexvivorum (talk) 07:55, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Tai Lue in Lanna / Tai Tham script[edit]

Hi Alif.

I take it you are the Alif Silpachai with the blog and YouTube channel about Tai languages?

I've taken an interest in Tai Lue since my two visits to Yunnan. I've been learning the New Tai Lue script and I've been adding entries to Wiktionary in it.

But I also want to get into the Tai Tham script version of it and I see you've actually created a font for Tai Tham as used in Northern Tai.

There is one major source of Tai Lue in the Tai Tham script, It comes with its own font but after much experimentation I've found that they're using a customized incompatible version of the Tai Tham Unicode encoding. If you try to get that site to use your font or Noto Sans Tai Tham it gets all garbled. Their font also seems to mess up Northern Tai web content that works for proper Tai Tham Unicode fonts, though I don't know any good Northern Thai sites to try that on. It turns out that the website's font uses lots of Unicode Private Use Area characters.

I think their font doesn't implement proper glyph shaping with combining characters for subscripts etc and instead uses their extra characters in the private use area.

I'm also not sure yet whether their font and website actually uses logical order for the Unicode codepoints or visual order. They have a version of the site also in the New Tai Lue script at and it was set up for visual order instead of the correct logical order. In fact, last year Unicode actually changed their definition for New Tai Lue to use visual order because this is pretty much the only place the script is used online.

I'm interested in being able to convert from the broken Tai Tham Unicode on their site to correct Tai Tham Unicode for Wiktionary. First I would need to figure out all the ways in which they're deviating from the standard. Then I'd want to find all the correct equivalents to all their private use characters, and then I'd probably write some code to automatically convert text from their website into correct Unicode that works with your font.

Let me know if this interests you and if you can help with it?

By the way, I notice you never seem to mention Zhuang in your blog and YoutTube channel - why is that? (-: — hippietrail (talk) 06:38, 2 March 2016 (UTC)


Hi, thanks for adding descendants in the Chinese entries! Other than minor formatting errors (like putting them after the ---- instead of before), there were just a few that were a bit questionable:

Do you have any sources that support your edits? @Wyang, Octahedron80, please take a look. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 05:08, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

Thank you @justin(r)leung. Here's my response.
  • "Do you have any sources that support your edits?"
  • Yes. 主 and 馬 are from [2] which cites Li, Fang Kuei. 雞 is from [3] which cites Liang and Zhang (Liang, M., & Zhang, J. (1996). Dong-Tai Yuzu Gailun [An Introduction to Kam-Tai Languages]).
  • "The Thai entry compares it to Khmer instead, which means they may not be from Chinese."
  • It seems like the assumption of your argument is that any Thai entry in which the word is compared to Khmer must not be from Chinese. Is this right?
I will edit the entries, so that the Thai and Lao words are under "Proto-Tai" (i.e., the words in these two languages are descendants of Proto-Tai words, which themselves are descendants of Chinese words).

--A.S. (talk) 05:41, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

Nevertheless, please use Pittayaporn's paper (2009) instead of The rinet is private work and unpublished. Pittayaporn's paper is about Proto-Tai but also mentioned to Chinese in appendix. --Octahedron80 (talk) 05:47, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

@Octahedron80, I agree that Pittayaporn's dissertation is much more credible, especially when Chinese loans such as 馬 are mentioned therein. Although the sites I mentioned aren't published, the papers that are cited are. --A.S. (talk) 05:57, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying, Alif. I think we want to stick to Pittayaporn's reconstructions just to be consistent in Wiktionary. Also, I think the etymology sections of the Thai and Lao entries should be updated accordingly, preferably before they are listed as descendants, so that it's clearer. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 06:41, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
  • "I think we want to stick to Pittayaporn's reconstructions just to be consistent in Wiktionary." Did we vote on this? I like Pittayaporn's reconstructions too, but we can't ignore the work by Li Fang Kuei and other published scholars. I agree that we have to be consistent as this will make Wiktionary more reliable. However, there should be a written rule (or is there one?) about which reconstructions to follow or whether we should cite only one source at all. This rule must be one that users working in this area all agree on, so that newer users can follow it.
  • "I think the etymology sections of the Thai and Lao entries should be updated accordingly." Good point. Since Wiktionary is a collaborative online dictionary, the responsibility to update all relevant etymology sections should not fall on one user. That said, you can make the changes too. As for me, I will slowly work on this. Thank you, Justin. --A.S. (talk) 14:39, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
I'm not sure if there's a vote on which reconstruction to use, but I do know @Wyang and @Octahedron80 have agreed here. I'm not so familiar with Proto-Tai and Tai languages, so that's why I'm leaving it to other editors like you who are more knowledgeable in these areas to expand the etymologies. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 15:51, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
I don't think such things should be subject to voting. When there are two or more hypotheses in the etymology of any language we list all credible ones. We only omit known folk etymologies, debunked, ones where the scholarly consensus has shifted, etc. And even then we can sometimes make a note of them. — hippietrail (talk) 03:19, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

"Module error: No such module "nod-headword"."[edit]

Why did you add a template to an entry that you knew wasn't functional? Chuck Entz (talk) 03:33, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Are you genuinely curious, or did you actually have a suggestion? --A.S. (talk) 05:12, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
I am the creator of nod-headword at thwikt. It does not yet exist here. Please use common "head" in the templates for now. --Octahedron80 (talk) 05:18, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Tai Lü dictionaries[edit]

Hi from ບໍ່ເຕ່ນ!

I just spent the last day of my Chinese visa in Jinghong, Xishuangbanna. Even though I'm flat broke I bought two of the three Tai Lü dictionaries sold at the local Xinhua bookstore. Both are Chinese-Tai Lü of course. One was a 10 RMB paperback using the new script with a very odd choice of which words to include. The other was a 55 RMB hardback using the old script and is generally much better all round. They also had a larger version of this. I have all the details if you want to know more.

By the way, are you active on Quora? I think there's a lot of questions over there on Tai-Kadai languages that would interest you and that you'd have answers to.

Also, have you noticed the requests pages and categories here? There are requests for entries in several Tai-Kadai languages and also requests for translations into those languages in the translation tables of various English entries.

I'm expecting to be in Laos and Thailand for up to six weeks as I make my way down to Kuala Lumpur for a cheap flight back home to Australia. — hippietrail (talk) 03:27, 18 June 2017 (UTC)