User talk:פֿינצטערניש

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Enjoy your stay at Wiktionary! --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 06:29, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for creating your username! Just ask if you need any help with Yiddish (or anything else). —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 07:16, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Will do, thank you :> Finsternish (talk) 07:19, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Attestation

The entry for *kvira was deleted because it failed WT:RFV, therefore it should not be given as a translation. Likewise, if supporting evidence cf. WT:ATTEST cannot be found for kvirigi, that translation will also be deleted.__Gamren (talk) 09:16, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

It's given as a translation because it's in widespread use and "failed" at most on a technicality, considering far more than the number of required citations were given and many of the given citations were from official communications of Esperanto organizations. The entry on the Esperanto Wiktionary remains up and it's probably not going anywhere, so since the translation also links there, its temporary absence from the English Wiktionary until someone with a large number of books bothers to find three durably archived citations should not keep the only valid translation of "queer" from being listed. Finsternish (talk) 09:26, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

The documented history of the word shows it has been in widespread use for over ten years, so it doesn't even qualify as an actual neologism. Finsternish (talk) 09:35, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

If you want our criteria for inclusion changed, you need to create a WT:BP discussion and argue your case there. Simply ignoring the rules is not an option. It doesn't matter that eo.wikt has different standards. You cannot just assume that citations exist; we will reinstate the entry and the translation when and if sufficient evidence is found.__Gamren (talk) 11:12, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Your criteria say that if a word is clearly in widespread use, it doesn't need three durably archived citations. Again, the citations span over a decade and there are far more than three. I've added even more to the Esperanto entry at this point. It perfectly meets the criteria, and should be listed as a translation even if some overzealous editors felt the need to eliminate the English page. Finsternish (talk) 14:13, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Note also that the Esperanto entry now shows that the word is in Reta Vortaro, which is no small thing; they don't put just any word in there. Finsternish (talk) 14:16, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

The citations given are:

# two from a bulletin of what was, until recently the only Esperanto LGBT association (side note: the new one has the word "genrokvira" in its name)

# one from Sennacieca Asocio Tutmonda

# one from soc.culture.esperanto

# one from Beletra Almanako, the major Esperanto literary magazine at the moment

# one from the Somera Esperanta Studo, one of two major summer Esperanto courses

# one from TEJO, the Esperanto youth association.

It's patently absurd to make the claim that the word is not in widespread use. Finsternish (talk) 14:21, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

And please note that I never said I wanted the criteria for inclusion changed -- literally the first thing I said was that it was in widespread use, which should have prevented you from having to make a response that assumed I wanted the criteria changed. Finsternish (talk) 14:38, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

The translation at queer conveys essentially the same information as the entry kvira did (first and foremost: that the word exists), and hence reinstating the translation is not meaningfully different from recreating the entry. All the cites at eo:kvira were found at kvira except the last, and all but one of the others was deemed either unarchived or a mention. Find at least one more cite, and you can make a reverse RFV at WT:RFVN (not exactly conventional, but I'm sure noone'll mind); you may refer to the two websites that ReVo cite, if you like. This is your second explicit warning. If you reinstate the translation at kvira outright, you will be blocked for a few days.__Gamren (talk) 16:05, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

OK. If I can refer to the websites, that works. I'll get to work on restoring it. Finsternish (talk) 20:17, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

The "widespread use" criterion is rarely invoked and, in my experience, exists to avoid spending time responding to RFVs of words that are obviously attested. If there's been an actual search for (CFI-compliant) evidence of the term and there isn't enough, then the term is apparently not in (sufficiently) widespread use. But I will poke around Usenet (which is durable because it is decentrally archived so content can't be deleted) and Issuu (which enables searching many magazines that are durably archived in libraries) and elsewhere and see if more citations can be found. - -sche (discuss) 19:05, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

It seems that this criterion, in its ambiguity and lack of any applicable standard for determining "widespread use," accidentally leaves a lot of room for plausible deniability when it comes to questions of why certain words are accepted at face value and not others. Finsternish (talk) 23:16, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

In any case, I would appreciate the help if you wanted to look at Issuu and Usenet. Finsternish (talk) 23:17, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

להט"ב

Please note that the stress you added here was off; I fixed it for you. Often Hebrew words do indeed have primary stress on the last syllable, but that isn't the case here. (I think it's got to do with these being loanwords, but I'm not entirely sure.) — Mnemosientje (t · c) 14:41, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Thank you; this is always appreciated. (Sorry for the delayed response.) פֿינצטערניש (talk) 15:56, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Interlingua

I only just noticed that you also edit Interlingua. Maybe you know this already, but Google Scholar is a very good source for Interlingua (mostly medical texts). ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 15:36, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Thank you! I just started finding some similar things on Google Books. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 15:56, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

גנבֿה

Hey, I'm a little puzzled about the phonological development from Hebrew gnavá to Yiddish gneyve, as I'd expect the outcome to be gnove (as in חכם ,כּשר for qamatz, תּחת for patah). Do you know what happened to that? Also, should the patah in the Hebrew text perhaps be another qamatz? ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 13:34, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Good catch - I incorrectly read, due to a poor monitor, a tzeire as a patakh. פֿינצטערניש (Fintsternish), she/her (talk) 14:12, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Ah, right. So the answer was even simpler. Thanks. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 14:29, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Community Insights Survey

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Sincerely,

RMaung (WMF) 14:34, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

Hebrew cleanup

Hey. I see you are editing in Hebrew a lot. Would you be able to check some of the 158 entries in Category:Tbot entries (Hebrew)? They are all automatically-generated entries that have been around here for a decade at least, so they are mostly incomplete and some are probably just wrong. Thanks in advance. --Mélange a trois (talk) 10:03, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

I wouldn't be comfortable nominating entries for deletion, for example, as I'm not a native speaker and I don't live in Israel. But I can check them, see if I can add vowels, transliterations, etc.. פֿינצטערניש (Fintsternish), she/her (talk) 11:35, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Reminder: Community Insights Survey

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Hi פֿינצטערניש,

A couple of weeks ago, we invited you to take the Community Insights Survey. It is the Wikimedia Foundation’s annual survey of our global communities. We want to learn how well we support your work on wiki. We are 10% towards our goal for participation. If you have not already taken the survey, you can help us reach our goal! Your voice matters to us.

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Sincerely,

RMaung (WMF) 19:14, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

Reminder: Community Insights Survey

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Hi פֿינצטערניש,

There are only a few weeks left to take the Community Insights Survey! We are 30% towards our goal for participation. If you have not already taken the survey, you can help us reach our goal! With this poll, the Wikimedia Foundation gathers feedback on how well we support your work on wiki. It only takes 15-25 minutes to complete, and it has a direct impact on the support we provide.

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Sincerely,

RMaung (WMF) 17:04, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

בראשית

I saw your comment on Metaknowledge's talk page and thought that it is worth noting that there is another viewpoint among Hebraists, namely that ראשית is a nomen regens asyndetically governing the following clause. Walkte & O'Connor very briefly mention this in a footnote on page 156. It is somewhat hard to tell what is the most mainstream view however. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 13:06, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

Thanks - that makes sense to me. There's a very old (at least as old as Bereishit Rabba) aggadic view that this was not the first world God created, and I think many people use this to explain the vocalization, but the construct-of-a-clause view makes sense as well. Of course, I would also contend that the Masoretes could have simply made a mistake... פֿינצטערניש (Fintsternish), she/her (talk) 13:24, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

װאָלט

I deleted this, and I thought I ought to let you know why. We don't create Unicode alternatives (per WT:AYI) and for good reason, because it's not really a different spelling (i.e. there is no graphical difference in writing). I thought that the search used to redirect those (perhaps a mistaken memory?), but this isn't a great solution in any case if we really think people are searching with the ligature. We might consider having a bot mass-create hard redirects, considering that no other language would interfere AFAIK. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 06:14, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

My Yiddish keyboard automatically codes a װ when I type the letter v, so such mass redirects would certainly be appreciated. פֿינצטערניש (Fintsternish), she/her (talk) 06:23, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Argh, maybe you would be best off installing a different keyboard. As for bot-wrangling, @Benwing2, what do you think of the idea of making hard redirects with װ for every Yiddish entry that includes וו? —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 18:18, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

@Metaknowledge I can do that if others are OK with it. Benwing2 (talk) 07:28, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Turkish

Hey. Thanks for your work on Turkish entries. We have pretty limited coverage of the language. If you have time, can you look at some entries in Category:Tbot entries (Turkish)? They were created by a bot years ago, and may contain errors or missing information. If you check them, please remove the "tbot tag" on the entry. Thanks --ReloadtheMatrix (talk) 12:44, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

There is also a similar category for Hebrew entries (139 at the moment) which could benefit from your expertise. --ReloadtheMatrix (talk) 12:50, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

Durably archived conlang-related works

Perhaps WT:About Esperanto could be a good place for the Esperanto material (under one of the existing headers or a new header "resources" or something - looks like that page could use a rewrite anyway), or on the talk page of that same page. Interested Esperanto editors will be likely to find it there. There is no WT:About Interlingua yet though. — Mnemosientje (t · c) 18:43, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

CFI for appendix-only conlangs

Here's a notification that a CFI for appendix-only conlangs has passed and can be implemented in upcoming months. I'd like to enquire how you feel about the CFI and whether you would propose any changes. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 18:02, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Editing in Hebrew and Ladino

Hey, I wanted to ask how comfortable you are with editing Hebrew and Ladino entries. I'm looking for someone who can add a word related to Sephardic liturgy. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 17:08, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

I've edited and started quite a few Hebrew and Ladino entries, @Lingo Bingo Dingo. What did you have in mind? פֿינצטערניש (Fintsternish), she/her (talk) 11:55, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Could you get אזהרה featurable for Shavuot? A quotation for sense 2 would be the most appropriate. Maybe it is also citable in Ladino. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 12:36, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

I'll do my best, will try to do so relatively quickly. פֿינצטערניש (Fintsternish), she/her (talk) 14:47, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Category:Judeo-Moroccan Arabic

Where did you find these words? I ask because the orthography seems quite unusual, so we should indicate on the pages where it's from. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 23:36, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

I was doing a course via Memrise: https://app.memrise.com/course/200779/moroccan-judeo-arabic/ פֿינצטערניש (Fintsternish), she/her (talk) 09:30, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

That is... less than ideal. Memrise is not a reliable source, and they may have invented their own orthography, which would explain the unusual choices. Do you know of any actual sources for Judeo-Moroccan Arabic? If not, I can move the attested words to their normal spellings (as Judeo-Arabic entries). —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 19:34, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

@Metaknowledge: On طَيْفُور (ṭayfūr) Heath 2013 I know. Searching this particular word there might have been sources in Arabic too. But the scarcity of treatment is also due to the lack of notable differences to non-Jewish Arabic, only confirming that the merger was the right decision. Fay Freak (talk) 19:45, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

I know that book by Heath; it's good, but it doesn't cover much vocabulary, and (crucially for this problem) it doesn't discuss orthography. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 20:09, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

It seems no evidence will be forthcoming, so I will empty the category. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 00:37, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

bimuelo

I have set it as a FWOTD for the suggested date, but is the etymology certain? If not, some appropriate qualification would be rather desirable. I have taken the liberty of also linking to Sephardi, for it is likely opaque to readers unlearned about Jewish history. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 21:33, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

It's the etymology listed for the Castilian cognate buñuelo. That's all I know. And good call on linking to Sephardi. פֿינצטערניש (Fintsternish), she/her (talk) 13:46, 9 December 2022 (UTC)