User talk:Doug Hockin

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Hello, and welcome to Wiktionary. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wiktionarian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk (discussion) and vote pages using four tildes, like this: ~~~~, which automatically produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the beer parlour or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! --Connel MacKenzie 23:50, 13 July 2006 (UTC)


Hello Doug. Most of your requested words are interesting to research and provide definitions for. However, would you like to have a go at defining some yourself? It's quite fun. SemperBlotto 16:36, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

getting to edit pages for (e.g.) PATA[edit]

I wrote an answer on the information desk.

Short answer: add the see line to the entry at pata, then just follow the red link you just created. Robert Ullmann 01:25, 2 March 2007 (UTC)


The words singular and permanent are not related terms. We reserve that section for words that are etymologically related to the entry (such as derived from the same root). --EncycloPetey 04:20, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

What's the difference between derived terms and related terms then? I'll put them back into see-also then. Do you know what relation they have to determinant? Seems very obscure. dougher 05:36, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Math:A matrix is singular if the determinant is zero. Jcwf 04:22, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Horizontal lines[edit]

Please do not remove horizontal lines between languages in articles. They are part of the normal format.--Williamsayers79 16:20, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


On this edit, you reduced Wiktionary's page count total. Any page that has no explicit wikilinks (using the [[ ]]) does not count towards the page total. Yes, the templates don't require them, but the page counting software does. --EncycloPetey 23:15, 19 November 2007 (UTC)


Coudn't you just put [[ELA]] in the sandbox or your own user-sandbox? 00:33, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Do you mean as a way to do the create/rename? Or do you mean that you don't think ELA should be in Wiktionary at all? -- dougher 04:01, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
The former. If I have bunch of things I want to generate I usually just list them on a sandbox page appended to my user page and then work from there

Jcwf 04:20, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

rat race[edit]

Hello Doug Hockin -- I have some doubts about the helpfulness or appropriateness of the etymology which you added to rat race. Yes, the expression is indeed formed by compounding rat + race, but this does not illuminate the origin of the specific idiom "rat race." I'm inclined to think that the only meaningful etymologies for idioms are (a) etymologies which identify the initial use or coinage of the idiom or (b) etymologies (usually conjectural and qualified by "probably" or "possibly") which explain what the terms in the idiom allude to (see, for example, asleep at the switch and consider the unofficial guidelines at Wiktionary:Etymology). Anyhow, I submit this respectfully for your consideration. -- WikiPedant 14:39, 28 March 2008 (UTC)


We do not normally put more than one quotation inline. --EncycloPetey 01:20, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

How do you decide which of the quotations to leave with the definition? -- dougher 22:51, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
We usually put copies of all quotations in the Citations page. To select one or two as examples, we look for (1) context in the quote to show meaning, (2) quotes using simpler English, and (3) brevity, (4) dates showing early and current use. When these options conflict, we do the best we can, or look for additional quotations. --EncycloPetey 22:55, 20 August 2008 (UTC)



FYI, I've reverted your edit to sophistically, as google books:"more sophistically" shows that this adverb is indeed comparable.

I'd recommend that you always check before making that sort of edit — it's easy to do, and the results will often surprise you.

RuakhTALK 14:10, 11 July 2008 (UTC)


This should never be placed between the L3 POS header and the inflection template. It interferes with the table form of the template for users who choose that format. --EncycloPetey 00:28, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Eep, really? That's where I always place it. :-/   (Doug probably got it from me; we both go through Wiktionary:Requested entries:English a lot.) So, does it go above the POS header, or below the inflection template, or somewhere else? —RuakhTALK 01:53, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
I put it right after the Language header, since it may apply to multiple POS sections and some people have been pushing for no more than one box per entry. I use {{pedialite}} in a L4 See also section when there are specific WP links that I want to tie to a particular part of speech. --EncycloPetey 02:03, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
So, I've kept an eye out, and looked into this a bit further, and I've decided that I disagree with you. The table form of the template has always come with an explicit warning that it interferes with sister-project boxes, so users who choose that form are getting what they paid for; and we have a number of editors who put the template right there, so I see no need to expect all of them to change their practice. It's a very logical place for it, since when there's a specific Wikipedia article for a topic, it typically belongs either to the Noun section or the Proper noun section, so it doesn't make sense to put it up above the Adjective header. There might be benefits to the rule that you describe; if you'd like to tout them, I think the right place is Wiktionary:Beer parlour rather than here. (And if we do decide to implement such a rule, I think the best way to do so would be using AutoFormat.) —RuakhTALK 16:41, 30 August 2008 (UTC)


When you reformat etymology, you must be cautious not to change the semantics, e. g. by this edit you claim some Dutch or Swedish origin of the word rook, because using {{etyl|sv}} or {{etyl|nl}} puts the word amongst Category:Swedish derivations or Category:Dutch derivations. Use {{etyl|nl|-}} instead, if you are eager to establish a link to the article on that language (both Swedish and Dutch are well-known and do not need this). The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 22:16, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

faster editing[edit]

Hi, just thought I' tell you (since you seem to have been around for a while) we have a little something called WT:ACCEL now :) It does make some of those menial creations easier. 50 Xylophone Players talk 21:06, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

Hey there, just wanted to say thanks for your helpful tweaks at the page totalism. Cheers, Cirt (talk) 19:27, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia links[edit]

These should be under the language header. We frown on having any item placed between the part-of-speech header and the inflection line template. --EncycloPetey 05:23, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

The intrusive content causes a number of display problems and confuses some of the bots (not to mention editors). There are also some editors here who want the Wikipedia box templates to go away entirely. In any case, we consistently place the Wikipedia link under the language header because there is always only one such link per entry, and the Wikipedia article (being topical) is not always exactly on the same content as the Wiktionary page linking to it. This also avoids duplication of links. Consider: should the link to the Wikipedia article on yellow be placed under "Noun" or "Adjective" or both? We place the Wikipedia box directly under the language header to avoid all these complications and issues. --EncycloPetey 05:34, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
And, no, it should never be at the top of the page. It should always be within a language section, under the corresponding language header. --EncycloPetey 05:35, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

formatting etymologies[edit]

Please do not remove standard format form Etymology sections. They should begin with "From" (in almost all situations) and end with a period. This is standard house style for the English Wiktionary. --EncycloPetey 02:49, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Global account[edit]

Hi Doug Hockin! As a Steward I'm involved in the upcoming unification of all accounts organized by the Wikimedia Foundation (see m:Single User Login finalisation announcement). By looking at your account, I realized that you don't have a global account yet. In order to secure your name, I recommend you to create such account on your own by submitting your password on Special:MergeAccount and unifying your local accounts. If you have any problems with doing that or further questions, please don't hesitate to contact me on my talk page. Cheers, DerHexer (talk) 18:11, 14 January 2015 (UTC)