Talk:upper

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Latest comment: 2 years ago by Backinstadiums in topic Etymology
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Tea room discussion

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Note: the below discussion was moved from the Wiktionary:Tea room.

I'm thinking about adding a noun defintion to upper, from which derive washer-upper, cheerer-upper, looker-upper, beater-upper etc. and I'm struggling to do better than "an agent noun for phrasal verbs ending in up". Also, is there a linguistic name for the process of changing these phrasal verbs into nouns? --Jackofclubs 13:18, 1 March 2009 (UTC)Reply

catcher-upper is another one. Equinox 17:00, 10 April 2017 (UTC)Reply

RFV discussion: February–March 2020

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The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for verification (permalink).

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.


Noun: "That which is higher, contrasted with the lower. As the restless sleeper here, I'll take the lower berth. You take the upper." I think that's an adjective there (like "you have brown shoes; I have black"). Equinox 18:47, 18 February 2020 (UTC)Reply

In a context where someone has a pair of black shoes as well as brown shoes, they can say, "I wear the browns" ([1], [2], [3]). You can do this in many contexts with many adjectives, most commonly in the plural.  --Lambiam 21:18, 18 February 2020 (UTC)Reply
At first I was totally inclined to agree, but for grins I did a search and found this [[4]]...not sure what to make of it yet Leasnam (talk) 18:51, 18 February 2020 (UTC)Reply
Found this as well, which seems eerily similar to the usex given for the sense 1. It even looks like it might be a clipping of upper berth/upper berths => upper/uppers [[5]] Leasnam (talk) 18:58, 18 February 2020 (UTC)Reply
cited. I added a selection of meanings, including those higher in the social hierarchy and upper teeth, as well as the bunks or berths already mentioned. I could probably supply three cites for each meaning, except perhaps the ropes on the sailboat. Kiwima (talk) 20:49, 18 February 2020 (UTC)Reply

Perhaps what we should be looking for is citations where "upper" is used without explicitly giving a noun that is modified by this as an adjective. In that case, I can cite upper berths or bunks, upper teeth, and social elites. We could break these off into three separate definitions, and remove the more vague "that which is higher". Kiwima (talk) 21:43, 18 February 2020 (UTC)Reply

Can't many (even most) English adjectives be used this way? I found that flimsy, apico-domal, complete, quiet, unique are used this way. Some adjectives aren't attestable being used this way, but it often seems for reasons of phonology, eg. differents. DCDuring (talk) 23:41, 18 February 2020 (UTC)Reply
It's been many years, but I vaguely remember upper as a partial denture (or was it orthodontia?) for the upper jaw, as in "I just got fitted for a new upper". Whatever the details, it's definitely a noun- if we can verify it. Chuck Entz (talk) 04:09, 19 February 2020 (UTC)Reply
The present usage example for the generic definition, "As the restless sleeper here, I'll take the lower berth. You take the upper", is quite weak IMO, since, as DCDuring says, pretty much any adjective can be used in this pattern with the definite article and an implied noun omitted. I would lay out the relevant definitions along the broad lines of "That which is higher, or above something else, especially ..." and then list the common special cases, such as the part of the shoe. Mihia (talk) 18:12, 22 February 2020 (UTC)Reply

RFV-resolved. I took @Mihia's suggestion and converted the entry into groupings of general meanings, which led me to group some of the other definitions as well. Kiwima (talk) 21:07, 2 March 2020 (UTC)Reply

Hypothetical noun: somebody who "ups" something

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e.g. an upper of limits (he upped the limit), an upper of one's game (you need to up your game). Is it ever used this way? Equinox 16:32, 22 May 2020 (UTC)Reply

Etymology

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[u'''p (adj) + -er3.''' Cf. MDu. upper (Du. and Flem. opper), LG. upper, üpper, MSw., Norw. yppare, older Da. yppere, better.] Backinstadiums (talk) 10:01, 25 June 2022 (UTC)Reply