Template talk:cap

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RFD discussion: December 2018–July 2019[edit]

The following information passed a request for deletion (permalink).

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

Hardly used. Where it is used it appears to be a hard to spot typo for {{l}}. If someone is actively using this for its intended purpose (substing) it should be moved to a better name. DTLHS (talk) 21:04, 21 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I was about to comment at Wiktionary:Grease_pit/2018/December#Capitalise that a template like this would be useful, especially one that didn't need to be subst:ed. I agree it should be renamed if kept, or we could just create a template from scratch that didn't need subst:ing...Template:capitalize with a redirect from the short form Template:cap? - -sche (discuss) 00:16, 23 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename as suggested by -sche. Personally I’m not sure it saves much time, but the Grease Pit discussion suggests some editors would find it useful. — SGconlaw (talk) 02:37, 23 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep because I started using it and found it useful. --Pious Eterino (talk) 00:43, 28 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • How can you tell, DTLHS, that it's "hardly used", when its documentation says it must be substed? Keep the useful template; note that the GP discussion linked above actually shows an editor seeking just this template! so it obviously is useful. That said, I wouldn't object to a change in name ({{subst:cap}}, I guess) if this one is confusing, so long as the deletion summary indicates the new name so people looking for it at the old page can find it.​—msh210℠ (talk) 20:33, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It is obviously "hardly used" because it has a stupid name that nobody even knew existed as evidenced by the GP discussion. DTLHS (talk) 21:15, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]


RFD discussion: February–April 2023[edit]

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Note this is {{1}} - not to be confused with {{l}}. This is a link template that capitalises the first letter. This has issues, however:

  • It assumes English by default if you don't enter a language code. This makes it highly prone to error.
  • It makes it easy for inexperienced users to use capitalisation in places where they shouldn't, such as in lists. For example, "Hellur" in this recent version of the page hello.
  • According to the documentation, it "must" always be substituted. This is very clearly not how it's been used, as it's currently transcluded over 500 times (and possibly many, many more). When this is combined with the fact that no langcode is required, it makes the template totally nonstandard (and therefore prone to error if bots happen across it).

I suggest we just get rid of it, as it's an obvious source of problems. If we keep it, then at the very least we should mandate a langcode and force substitution. Theknightwho (talk) 00:36, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Theknightwho: is there a technical way to force substitution, like some warning message if the template is not substituted? Just wondering. 12:09, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes there is. Theknightwho (talk) 12:29, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: wow, you’ve got to be super lazy to need this template. Plus, the instructions are rather involved; I can’t imagine an inexperienced editor bothering to read them. — Sgconlaw (talk) 12:21, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. It's meant for definitions in English entries where we usually capitalise the first letter of the first word of the definition while linking to its entry which is on its non-capitalised spelling (unless it is a proper noun, etc. always beginning with a capital letter). This is its most common (if not only) usage in mainspace entries. The documentation can be updated to clearly instruct inexperienced users regarding its usage to avoid them using it where they shouldn't and the "must be substituted" part can be removed according to current practices. --Svartava (talk) 05:50, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Svartava: you mean you think it should be used without substitution? Wouldn’t this just make the wikitext unnecessarily more opaque? — Sgconlaw (talk) 11:38, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Sgconlaw: Yeah, I think it is totally fine to use it without substitution (as done mostly presently). It's a simple template anyway, and makes it quite convenient to capitalise the first letter without having to re-type the whole word. --Svartava (talk) 12:17, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with @Sgconlaw - it adds needless confusion. We should be cutting down on the number of templates when they aren't actually needed. Plus, there are other disadvantages I've already listed, too. Theknightwho (talk) 12:25, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I love this template. It saves me a lot of time. Equinox ◑ 11:39, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
A couple of points:
  • The name of this template is poor; it doesn't seem to refer to anything in particular and it's too easily confused with the {{{1}}} syntax for template parameters. Let's at least move the template to an alphabetical title. Maybe {{M}} or {{j}} for Majuscule?
  • There is no need for a language code in this template. It is intended to be used in glosses, which are written in English. The lang= parameter doesn't appear to be in use in any entries (other than IFA); let's just remove it to avoid confusion.
This, that and the other (talk) 07:15, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, or at least force a substitution (either by bot or somehow hardcoded) Ioaxxere (talk) 21:50, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, but I would suggest renaming it and perhaps removing the language code for the reasons This, that and the other mentions, especially given that 1 and l look particularly similar in the default font for the script editor. I would add a couple of points: small pieces of "laziness" can add up to significant time-saving in the context of anything that requires a large number of manual edits, and I don't personally see the reason for forcing substitution since it adds a fair number of keystrokes for not much benefit. —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 13:36, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. — Fenakhay (حيطي · مساهماتي) 13:58, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
On one hand, it's useful to have a template that does this, and it even makes a decent amount of sense for it to expect itself to be used only in English sections since those are the main place we need to capitalize an initial link, since English definitions are typically capitalized, where other languages just have glosses. On the other hand, the name is poor and opaque, as I admitted in the last RFD (Template talk:1). But if we rename to something long, it reduces the advantage of this template, that it's easier than typing the whole headword again ({{l|en|uranium hexafluoride|Uranium hexafluoride}}). Meh. IMO keep but maybe rename (I suggested {{capitalize}} with a redirect from {{cap}} last time), and I have no objection to removing the language code so that it just functions like [[foo|Foo]]. - -sche (discuss) 21:19, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I wasn't aware of its existence, but would like to use it when inserting long vernacular names of organisms at the beginning of definition sentences. I'd much rather not have to subst because of the extra keystrokes. I suppose we could instead just have a bot capitalize the first word of every definition in English L2s periodically. DCDuring (talk) 23:11, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ooh, I forgot about this template. Thanks for reminding me. I'm gonna use it again :). This is a keep, of course. All the points made by Theknightwho are unconvincing arguments. It assumes English by default if you don't enter a language code. This makes it highly prone to error (WTF?) It makes it easy for inexperienced users to use capitalisation in places where they shouldn't, such as in lists - inexperienced users wouldn't even know it exists. Van Man Fan (talk) 23:35, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I listed it here precisely because someone made that mistake. Theknightwho (talk) 19:21, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]


Beer Parlour discussion (March 2024)[edit]

See Wiktionary:Beer parlour/2024/March § deprecate Template:1

— excarnateSojourner (ta·co) 06:11, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RFM discussion: December 2023–March 2024[edit]

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for moves, mergers and splits (permalink).

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

T:1 → ?

Sure, keep using T:1 as the short form (like T:lb, T:bor, etc) ... but can we maybe make the 'main' name something more intelligible (a la T:label, T:borrowed, etc)? T:capitalize or T:capitalize link or something? - -sche (discuss) 06:39, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]


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