User talk:Maddog03

Anagrams

We only list anagrams for entries we already have. We will likely never have entries for "dirty room" or "voices rant on". DTLHS (talk) 21:03, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Issues

I've been undoing a lot of your recent edits and, to be plain, that's really not how I'd prefer to spend my time on Wiktionary, so I'm hoping you will take some time to look through your contributions and take some of my following advice.

The first is that we don't include the IPA pronunciation for plurals on the entry for the singular. The IPA pronunciation for the plural should go on the entry for the singular.

On the topic of pronunciation, typical Israeli Hebrew almost never pronounces ʔ or the glottal stop.

Another is that we're generally moving away from using inline links to Hebrew roots in =Etymology= sections, instead using {{HE root}}. In the entry for a hitpa'el verb, the fact that it is hitpa'el should be indicated with the {{he-verb}} template, and the root will be shown by HE root, so having all of that duplicated in the etymology section isn't really helpful.

These aren't the only issues I've noticed, but hopefully that'll get you started at better formatting practices. — [ זכריה קהת ] Zack. — 19:31, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Stop use {{etyl}} immediately! Use {{der}}, {{inh}}, {{bor}} and so on. Fay Freak (talk) 20:12, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Re diff I mentioned that Israeli Hebrew rarely pronounces the glottal stop, and also doesn't usually pronounce the letter ה in any position.

Re diff It is fairly clear to me especially from this edit that you are unfamiliar with the way that modern Hebrew is pronounced, that is, with little regard for traditional grammar rules. It would be cool if you would take more time to learn about Hebrew pronunciation before you continue adding these IPA sections. Or better yet, ask someone like me who is familiar with the subject.

Re diff Given the above, it seems unlikely to me that you are familiar enough with Biblical Hebrew to be adding these IPA sections. I think I am not the only person who would appreciate if you would desist from doing so.

Re diff we have a template that handles Biblical quotes. I can't remember it right offhand, but it shouldn't be terribly hard to find if you take a break from adding/editing for a while to spend some time looking at Hebrew entries. Ones edited by myself or User:Wikitiki89 in particular tend to be decent examples of how Hebrew entries should be formatted.

A lot of editors here know that I am frequently not the most friendly person on here. I'm being as patient as I can, but if you keep editing things you don't know and also don't respond to messages on your talk page, I'm not going to have a problem giving you a short block.

Don't try to be an Engleby. — [ זכריה קהת ] Zack. — 21:41, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Not Trying to Cause Any Trouble...

I'm presuming you are a mod. Thank you for contacting me.

A little bit about who I am. I'm on my final year of completing my doctorate in Linguistics (w/ a concentration in Comparative Semantics in Near Eastern Languages) at the University of Chicago.

Hebrew has always been my favorite of the many languages I've studied (both in its ancient and modern forms). I'm looking forward to spending some time over in Israel next summer hopefully!

I'll be honest... When I went on Wiktionary here (the standard public's go-to language reference site), I was initially appalled that I couldn't find countless Hebrew terms that I'd studied and learned about in the classroom. Obviously, I don't use Wiktionary in my studies, but I feel like the public should have access to the maximum amount of Hebrew vocabulary. I know that 5 or 6 years ago when I was trying to discern which language family I wanted to concentrate on for my eventual doctorate, I would have benefited from a much more developed Wiktionary site to explore around with. Thankfully, I had a really good teacher my senior year of undergraduate studies that taught me about the beauty of Hebrew (in particular) as well as his going into its relation to other northwestern Semitic languages (obviously Phoenician, Ugaritic, Old/Middle/Neo Aramaic); Central (Arabic), and Southern (Amharic in particular and a little bit of Tigrinya). I got hooked, and I haven't looked back since. :)

Anyway, I'm involved in the recruiting process, trying to encourage prospectives to consider going into fields of linguistics and philology. When they ask me, "How do I know if this field is right for me?", I would tell them to go onto Wiktionary and see if the history and development of words of a certain language they are partial to fascinates them. Do they lose time in researching such things? How much does it excite them?

A lot of times prospectives here are interested in far eastern languages or European language groups (Germanic, Celtic, Romance). It's not too often our prospective students show interest in the Afro-Asiatic languages (although I'll rave non-stop to them about how amazing they are). But recently, one prospective student I became acquainted with was discerning going into the Afro-Asiatic field. He informed me he went to Wiktionary as well as a couple other sites I recommended. And he commented that the Hebrew wiktionary didn't have much etymological information. He's Jewish, and so he grew up learning Hebrew and said a lot of terms were missing. So I went on and was also surprised at how unconnected some terms are that are clearly related.

So I thought I might spend some of my free-time helping contribute to a community website that seemed like it could use a bit of a kick if you know what I mean.

Some of your points you made in your message I am well aware of. I do know that contemporary Hebrew speakers do not emphasize the guttural <ʔ>. That's fallen out of use. I figured that (the higher powers that be behind) Wiktionary wanted the entire proper IPA conversion in its pronunciation. I apologize for that. I didn't even know there was someone like you I could contact with these questions.

I presume you either live now or used to live in Israel. I really apologize if in making some edits, I got carried away, being an academician focused more on the grainy details, which could make a given page appear slightly disorganized. I'm not sure if my transliteration appeared a bit Ashkenazic to you. That wasn't my goal.

I also understand that you as a mod are not a fan of "Etymology" headers. I get that. Derived/Related terms makes a lot more sense.

From now on, I'll ask how you want something done [as I am presuming that you are the designated mod who gets paid to monitor all Hebrew (en.wiktionary.org) activity.]

I'm already starting to do a bit of student teaching myself. So I'd love to be able to tell my students to use the Hebrew English wiktionary page as a resource. But as of now, there is just so much missing. I just wanted to do my part in making sure that my students can have a strong database to go to that will assist them in their budding semesters of becoming eventual Hebrew readers, writers, and speakers.

Sorry if I appeared to be encroaching. That was not my intent in any way. -- Maddog03 [Godfrey]

Read the documentations of the templates before you use them, and read WT:EL (important! it says which header is wherefor.). Really, on Wiktionary there is little preliminary reading, absolutely and if you compare with other projects, and it is baffling that so many people fail it. Sadly nobody here is paid, therefore the gaps. We don’t even have templates to treat Ethiopian languages in a connected fashion. Look what wasteland! 300 million native speakers for Arabic and who gets to treat is some German, a single professor who knows cuneiform and comes by to fill the difficult etymologies, and occassional random anons, many questionable, as though this were an imageboard. I hope what you say is true and there is potential to stir up the apathia a bit. Fay Freak (talk) 00:55, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

It's not encroaching it's just that dictionaries have to be very uniform. The way we've treated Hebrew has evolved a lot since I started here 12 years ago, but it seems like we're getting a lot closer to where we should be.

In fact our etymology sections are one of my favorite things about Wiktionary, but for Hebrew it's usually not necessary. We have the {{HE root}} template that you can put right under the =Hebrew= header, and the {{he-noun}} and {{he-verb}} templates allow you to indicate the miktal or binyan, so unless a word is derived from Proto-Semitic or borrowed from another language (like מרציפן) the etymology section isn't providing any useful new information.

When you're more familiar with different accents of Hebrew, you'll be able to do like what I did on ביטוח with the phonetic vs phonemic transcriptions. (I don't know what Wiktionarians have against [biˈtuaχ], but slashes are a lot more common.)

I've never been to Israel, but being an active and involved Jew gives me a lot of exposure to different accents. So like I said, if you ever have any questions, feel free to leave something on my talk page. I can't promise I'll be able to answer everything, but with pronunciation especially, I tend to be pretty good. — [ זכריה קהת ] Zack. — 19:09, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Okay. I appreciate it. I'm only student-teaching a couple small classes this year at our uni. But there really isn't a more comprehensive English-friendly site than Wiktionary obviously. Unfortunately, I'm not Jewish but rather a Catholic who is a major Jewish-"stan" and finds more similarities between Judaism and Catholicism than Catholicism and Protestantism and further off-shoots. I've studied both ancient and modern Hebrew academically pretty extensively, but again, my main exposure at this point has been in group meetings here where the goal is to speak Hebrew. But it's mostly been with all of us who were in the process of learning. I'm hoping my time abroad will help although it will be limited to just a summer. To Fay, yeah, my Ethiopian Amharic is okay (only two courses. Mostly we were learning it with the goal of using it in comparative linguistics and how southern-Semitic languages relate to northwestern obviously. But I could take a look eventually. Right now, I'm just student-teaching Hebrew though. So my main concern was to make sure most of the vocabulary they'd learn is on here. But then I got distracted by starting with my own giant vocabulary list and going through 'Aleph'. Lol. I'll try to be less carried away. And I'll find time to read over those links you sent me before I make any alterations. :)

Signatures

Hi. Please don't forget to sign your messages with ~~~~. Thanks! Per utramque cavernam 09:49, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

Descendants

Hi, I just wanted to point out (even though there isn't a specific rule against it), descendants sections are reserved for the words that directly descend from that word. So at bursa, we would normally list bolsa, but bolso, embolsar, reembolsar all just belong at the derived term on the page for bolsa. Ultimateria (talk) 20:11, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

Maddog03, to echo above, the hierarchy of descendants trees is strictly etymological, so things like saying English barley is directly derived from English bere is  incorrect as it actually derives from OE bærlic. So please, do not add related words that do not strictly descend from the entry. I've had to undo nearly all your descendant tree edits. Also, if the descendant is already on the entry of an intermediary derivative, it shouldn't be duplicated on the parent entry, and be sure to use → or |bor=1 in {{desc}} for borrowing and place them at the bottom of their level. Thanks. --Victar (talk) 08:51, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

"English cognate equivalent"

There is no reason to add these under Etymology sections or pretty much anywhere. SURJECTION _{·talk·contr·log·} 08:45, 4 October 2018 (UTC)