User talk:Stríðsdrengur

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Template:roa-opt-conj-ar

Hi. It's generally not a good idea to blank a page like this; if you want it deleted, use the {{delete}} template. Benwing2 (talk) 00:00, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

I was trying to create an automated table for the verbs of this language but I'm not succeeding Stríðsdrengur (talk) 00:13, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

I need a template to conjugate Galician-Portuguese verbs that change from g to gu, could you help me? Stríðsdrengur (talk) 13:06, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

German accents

Hi, I've noticed you adding pronunciations to German entries. You get most of it right, yet many of the accents are put in the wrong place. I'd recommend only adding pronunciations if you're taking them from a dictionary. Megathonic (talk) 17:44, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Alright, I apologize for that, I'll just put the pronunciation of the words when I find them in some reliable dictionary. Stríðsdrengur (talk) 18:59, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

'Vulgar' conjugations

Hi,

There are numerous problems with the automatically generated 'Vulgar Latin' conjugations. Please do not add them. Nicodene (talk) 00:17, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

I didn't know about these problems, I apologize for the inconvenience, I won't make the same mistake again Stríðsdrengur (talk) 00:32, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Swedish pronunciations

Hello. I suggest you be more careful when adding IPA for Swedish entries, because many of your transcriptions have contained errors thus far. For a few examples: "körd" in norrlandskörd starts with a /ɕ/ (not a /ɧ/), "nation" in värdnation is pronounced with a /t/, and broad transcription doesn't recognize [ʂ] as its own phoneme; [ʂ] is either either the retroflexion resulting from an "rs" sequence or a dialectal realization of the sje-sound. Also, a single word can't have equally high stress on two syllables, ergo there can't be two instances of the stronger stress marker "²". Glades12 (talk) 16:03, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Alright friend, sorry for the mistakes, I won't touch the Swedish page anymore Stríðsdrengur (talk) 17:49, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Don't stop altogether! Your contributions overall are accurate and helpful for Swedish; it's just the pronunciations that contain errors at times. Glades12 (talk) 13:58, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Sorbian

It's great to see Sorbian. What have you been using to do your work? Btw, would you like to join the discord server? We could talk about all this there as well. Vininn126 (talk) 17:51, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

I've been trying to improve the Upper Sorbian page, it's been quite abandoned lately, but it's been difficult since it's hard to find resources in English, I understand a little German but it's not that good

Send me the link pls Stríðsdrengur (talk) 17:59, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

WT:Discord Vininn126 (talk) 18:03, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

bot

hi please creat forms with bot to creat faster

Machine Translations

Hey, I'd make sure to verify the output of any machine translations before using them. While these translators have certainly gotten much better over the years and can be used to help, they're not perfect, and simply copy/pasting the results will inevitably result in errors being made, such as in your edit at Mohr. It was not able to recognize that Thor is an archaic spelling of Tor, which in this context means fool, and thus the word was left untranslated as if it were a name of a person. Megathonic (talk) 03:46, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Strange forms of roa-opt verbs

Where did you got the forms in "-êssedes" in roa-opt? I can't attest it. - Sarilho1 (talk) 20:27, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Acho que é melhor responder-lhe em português para ser mais fácil. A maior parte das formas conjugadas nesta tabela foram "reutilizadas" de tabelas manuais para outros verbos, basta procurar na categoria de tabelas de conjugação de verbos em galego-português antigo. Penso que fui um pouco irresponsável ao não ter pesquisado todas as formas atestadas em textos ou em sites como Universo Cantigas. Stríðsdrengur (talk) 20:31, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Não me sinto muito confortável em ter formas especulativas. Não consegues adicionar uma fonte à descrição do template que justifique a escolha das formas verbais? - Sarilho1 (talk) 09:24, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Até onde eu sei, formas em -êssedes seriam as esperadas vendo a história da língua; o "-êsseis" de hoje vem dum "-êssedes" anterior depois do "d" sofrer elisão, "-êssedes" esse que é mantido no galego. E olha, achei uma. "Vivêssedes" nessa cantiga aqui. MedK1 (talk) 23:40, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Muito bem colocado. Stríðsdrengur (talk) 23:51, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Como sou brasileiro e comecei a criar manualmente as tabelas nesse link, eu impus a grafia portuguesa sobre os verbos. Eu poderia muito bem ter escolhido outras formas como "-essedes", "-esedes" e "-êsedes". Além disso, conforme MedK1 disse, esse /d/ sofreu uma elisão. Vivêssedes > vivêssees > vivêsseis. Vi que o verbo galego-português antigo "ysopar" está grafado com /y/, poderia ter sido escrito como "isopar", assim como "trebellar" poderia ser "trebelhar". 131.196.77.227 22:46, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Foi muito difícil analisar a conjugação (verbal) dessa língua antiga do zero. É um sucesso ter isso acessível para todos na internet, ainda mais com o auxílio dos templates automáticos. Ainda têm alguns pontos a se verificarem, como o "vós", que pode tanto no português quanto na sua forma antiga ser considerado como plural e singular, e as formas como "vós outros", "vós outras", "vós oitros", "vós oitras", "nós outros", "nós outras", "nós oitros" e "nós oitras". Há também as formas como "vós outro", "nós outra" etc. que são singulares, e que não coloquei nas tabelas. 131.196.77.227 00:01, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

T:kl-decl-noun

I can't believe I'm saying this, but stop editing languages you don't know! Greenlandic isn't this simple, it has a bunch of very difficult phonological rules pertaining to the ending, please first read up on a language in its entirety before creating infrastructure for it! Thadh (talk) 09:42, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Sorry for the inconvenience, I'll stop. Stríðsdrengur (talk) 09:47, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

niibiwa-bakise ataason

Created in error 63.160.115.162 01:25, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

niibiwa-bakise adaawewigamig is the correct term

Adding +-templates

Don't, unless the language actually uses them across all pages (like Slavic languages). Uralic languages don't. AFAIK Vietnames doesn't either. Thadh (talk) 23:41, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

This, for one. -- Sokkjō 12:58, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Ronto- and Quecto-

What's the justification behind reverting my edit that Q and R weren't randomly picked out of a hat? 203.145.95.43 09:41, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

i don't want to seem annoying but your last edits weren't that... Hmmm how can i say , i just saw you deleting the translations and thought it was something u did wrongly Stríðsdrengur (talk) 09:44, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

What deleted translations? I only edited the section on the etymology of the word? 203.145.95.43 10:24, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

grossus

why did you undo that? 195.169.52.5 09:46, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

faildaughter

Hello, I'd like to ask about the reversal of my edit without a reason provided. Per WP:REVEXP, users expect an explanation for reversals, either in edit summaries or in talk pages. In this case, the term was clearly a coinage analogous in construction to an earlier attested term, and "with analogy to" is a well-established form, as it can be seen in dozens of entries' etymology sections, so I can't see any reason to remove it. 82.222.238.185 11:05, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi anon, WP:REVEXP does not apply here as this is not Wikipedia, but I agree that the reversal was undue (and that providing an explanation would have been preferable). I have restored your addition to the etymology, as it is basically correct. — Mnemosientje (t · c) 08:27, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Ælfric Edit

I don't understand your explanation for reversing my edit in which I expanded Ælfric into a full article. You wrote "You must apply this content in another language". As far as I can tell, this is en.wiktionary and I wrote the material in fine English. What precisely was wrong with my edit? - Pangur Bán & I (talk) 20:55, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

You have to apply this to the Old English language, not to the Modern English page, all that content is used for another language Stríðsdrengur (talk) 21:07, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

I'm fairly new to Wiktionary, so forgive me if I'm still misunderstanding you. I changed the section title from "English" to "Old English" because Ælfric is an Old English name that is not used in Modern English, with perhaps the odd exception. Essentially, there should be no such thing as a Modern English Page for Ælfric. Do I need to do something additional to indicate this other than altering the section title? I did a fair amount of research for this, so if you could walk me through fixing whatever my mistake was I would be very grateful. Pangur Bán & I (talk) 21:24, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Don't worry, buddy! Everyone has been a new user with difficulties and doubts, but anyway. The point is that Wiktionary in English has several languages, not just English, so try to "imitate" some entries in Old English if you feel lost in the organization etc. I hope this helps, and if you have any more questions, I'd be happy to help! Stríðsdrengur (talk) 22:28, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I'm still not understanding. I did actually try to model my own edit on other articles for Old English names like Æþelred, Friþuric, and Ælfræd. What specifically am I missing? Is there a detail I needed to add but didn't, or somewhere where I deviated from a standardized format that I'm not aware of? Pangur Bán & I (talk) 23:55, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

u should talk to the creator of the pages, they can help you Stríðsdrengur (talk) 00:02, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

I will do that. I really don't mean this to sound rude, but why did you revert my edit if you can't articulate what was wrong with it? Pangur Bán & I (talk) 00:07, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Coz you did try to transform a page from Modern English to Old English when you could just create a new one Stríðsdrengur (talk) 00:13, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Well, I did that on purpose. Ælfric isn't a Modern English name and therefore doesn't need a Modern English page. I don't get why that would be a problem. I will reach out to the original creator of the page as you suggested. Thanks, Pangur Bán & I (talk) 00:17, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

The point is that that page was an archaic/rare form of modern writing, as was listed in the meaning Stríðsdrengur (talk) 00:19, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

I understand that's what it said, but from my own investigation "Aelfric" appears only to be a transliteration of Ælfric, not a modern name in its own right. It isn't in any modern compendium of names I've found, it hasn't been in the top 17000 male names in Britain since they've been recorded, and it isn't in the US's name popularity database at all. Plus, I can't find any examples of well known persons with the name since the 12th century. I just don't accept that there needs to be a Modern English page for it. Pangur Bán & I (talk) 00:41, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

caça-dotes edit

Why was the etymology of caça-dotes changed to "Blend of (...)"? I don't think it's considered a blend, it is actually a compound. And I believe that that part of my version was right... OweOwnAwe (talk) 05:50, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

I think you're right about that, I was a little irresponsible Stríðsdrengur (talk) 11:05, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Possible future problem with roa-opt-conj-ar et al

Hi. I was creating the OPG entry for bannar when I realised that we'll have a problem soon. I mean, most Galician sources use the spellings: bann-, ban-, bañ-, while most Portuguese use banh-. Applying the conjugation we now have we will end with forms absolutely unlikely to have ever been written: say, **banhasche. That will happen with any verb that, in its theme, has /ʎ/ (Galician spelling <l>, <ll>, Portuguese <lh>) or /ɲ/ (Galician spelling <n>, <ñ> Portuguese <nh>).

Also, since we have expanded the duration of OGP period from essentially a century to three centuries, we'll need to cover the evolution of both Galician and Portuguese varieties (So, for example, 15th century Portuguese spelling cantaram = Galician cantaron "they sang"). I'll advise in using a double template, à la Occitana. Well, let me know. Froaringus (talk) 12:38, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

ok Stríðsdrengur (talk) 12:40, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

So how about we do it this way, in each verb entry that has "regional" variations, we won't put the conjugation in the main entry, we'll put it in the regional entries to avoid any more problems with the difference that the two variations of the language had. Stríðsdrengur (talk) 12:42, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

That sounds ok and probably will be necessary. Froaringus (talk) 19:11, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

marking for deletion

I undid your marking for speedy deletion of Template:hsb-decl-noun-smh-inam. Whenever you use the speedy deletion tag, it's very important to indicate why; furthermore, this template is used on several pages, such as dorn, and adding the speedy deletion tag causes all those pages to be marked for deletion, which is incorrect. Benwing2 (talk) 07:46, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

This goes for all the Upper Sorbian templates you marked for deletion. Benwing2 (talk) 07:47, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

I was already taking care of this, I was replacing the page template and adding manual templates Stríðsdrengur (talk) 09:48, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

What do you mean by "manual templates"? If you are referring to hard-coding the declension tables, you shouldn't do that. What was the reason for wanting to delete the templates in the first place? You have never indicated that. Benwing2 (talk) 11:18, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

First of all, the templates were created by me and they were completely "broken", they didn't perform the function correctly and it was a mess, and now, with the help of native speakers who contribute on wiktionary I'm going to make the "real" templates that finally do the functions correctly, and yes, I think I was a bit irresponsible for making a mass deletion without specifying the reason. Stríðsdrengur (talk) 11:58, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Conjugation of Spanish multiwords

Having crap like "tomémosle por el pito del sereno" at tomar por el pito del sereno doesn't seem useful Denazz (talk) 13:54, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Although this does not create new entries and is just joining several entries together as if they were one, it is good to keep the pages complete to avoid further problems Stríðsdrengur (talk) 13:55, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Empty etymology sections

I'm sorry but how are they useful?????? We want to believe that someone will add them later but years pass and no one does. 178.120.11.81 23:46, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

all these pages are sent to a verification category, and there users look at the pages and make the necessary changes, if you keep vandalizing, you will only keep getting worse Stríðsdrengur (talk) 23:48, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Where is this category? 178.120.11.81 23:52, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Requests_for_etymologies_in_Hindi_entries Stríðsdrengur (talk) 23:54, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

There are 300 entries!! How many editors are there who know the etymology of Hindi words? How active are they? I'm guessing two or three. In the meantime, we have to deal with those empty sections. 178.120.11.81 00:02, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Are you the one who will fill these pages without etymology? If yes, then you can remove the check tag and put an etymology, otherwise, stop vandalizing them Stríðsdrengur (talk) 00:05, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

I would but I'm not an etymology expert. Btw way to go with the vandal assumption, seems like you forgot about good faith. 178.120.11.81 00:11, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

ehh... You're right, I was just in a hurry with something, but anyway, sorry Stríðsdrengur (talk) 00:13, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

He visto en tu página que no usas https://dle.rae.es/ para buscar palabras en español. Alguna razón en particular? 178.120.11.81 00:27, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

No soy un usuario de español muy activo :) Stríðsdrengur (talk) 00:52, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Upper Sorbian / Discord

I entered Discord, but I neither want to give an e-mail address nor get into a lot of discussions. I read something about Upper Sorbian IPA. What you said about /ʑ/ and /ɕ/ not existing in hsb is absolutely correct. The letters ć and č represent the same sound (unlike Lower Sorbian). Then there was something about stress. It's normally on the first syllable, but in borrowings including internationalisms it's on the same syllable as in German. So it should be included. (In fact, in such words vowel length is also mostly carried over. This is not part of the prescriptive standard, but so pervasive in practice that I recommend including it as optional.) I'm willing to answer other questions here, but wouldn't join Discord. I'm fairly familiar with the phonology of Upper Sorbian, but I don't speak it. 88.64.225.53 11:35, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the information, @Vininn126 and I are building a pronunciation module for hsb, and we would really appreciate your help. Stríðsdrengur (talk) 11:51, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

What sound should dź represent? Furthermore, stress can be set manually, otherwise by default it's initial. I don't think we're going to include length, I doubt it's phonemic. See my sandbox for test cases. Vininn126 (talk) 11:54, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

dź is [d͡ʒ]. --- Vowel length is disregarded in the prescriptive standard, so of course you can say: It's optional and hence not phonemic. But in actual speech it's almost always maintained, so I think it would be good if it could be added manually and then be given in brackets. Like entering kandidât gives /kandiˈda(ː)t/ (or the like). Another such thing is that "y" in Greek words is pronounced [y]. It's simply how the language is spoken, so I think it shouldn't be disregarded entirely. But that's all I'm going to say. --- Another thing would be silent letters. "w" is only pronounced when either followed or preceded by a vowel. "h" is only pronounced when (1) the first sound in a syllable AND (2) followed by a vowel. Other letters can be silent (e.g. the "p" in "ptak"), but these have to be added manually. 88.64.225.53 13:06, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Are there minimal pairs for the length? If not, then it's not phonemic, it's phonetic, and we'd have to change the output from // to []. Vininn126 (talk) 13:18, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Probably. It's definitely phonemic in the colloquial language (which is quite different from the standard). This is a thorough study of colloquial Upper Sorbian, though there's not that much about phonology. -- But we should probably leave that for now. It's not that important. I just happened to mention it in the context of stress.

Otherwise I thought a bit more about things that would go beyond simple sound-letter correspondences:

1.) <h> as above, always silent when not immediately followed by a vowel. -- An open question for me is cases like "Zhorjelc", where "h" is followed by a vowel, but isn't in the syllable onset: Is it necessarily silent or just optionally?

2.) <w> as above, always silent when not adjacent to a vowel. -- Open question 1: Does <ł> behave the same way? -- Open question 2: There are words in which silent <w> resurfaces after a vowel in the preceding word, but AFAIK this is only true of some words, not all. For example, I read somewhere that it always remains silent in "wčera" (yesterday). We would need a way to indicate this difference.

3.) <ch> is split into /x/ and /kʰ/. We must distinguish the latter because it isn't restricted to word-initial position, but also occurs in stem-initial position, which means that at least for our purposes we must consider it phonemic. Compare: "wuchod" /ˈwukʰɔt/ vs. "přichod" /ˈpʃixɔt/ (latter is etymologically stem-initial too, but isn't recognized as such, possibly a learned borrowing from Czech). I suppose by default <ch> would be /kʰ/ word-initially and in initial <sch>, otherwise /x/. Cases like "wuchod" could be encoded as |wu-chod| or the like.

Those are my two cents. If you have other questions, I'll try to help. I'll check the page in a couple of days. 88.64.225.53 15:32, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

We will need a special character (or perhaps a digraph) for /kʰ/, because there's no way for the module to know what's a stem or not. As for <h> and <ł>, I'm not sure. Vininn126 (talk) 15:37, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

But also does /kʰ/ actually contrast with /x/ anywhere? Vininn126 (talk) 15:40, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

You mean a 100% minimal pair? I don't know. But there's e.g. "pochar" /ˈpɔxaʁ/ ("peat cutter", poch + -ar) vs. "pochad" /ˈpɔkʰat/ ("origin", po- + chad). This should really be good enough for us. It's not predictable without knowing the morpheme boundaries! And then what help would the IPA be if we neglect this distinction? 88.64.225.53 15:57, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

It might make sense, but again, we'd probably want to change from // to []. Vininn126 (talk) 15:59, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Found one: "pochowa" with /kʰ/ = "he buries", with /x/ = "peaty" (f. sg.) 88.64.225.53 16:38, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Alright then. But either way I'm going to need a special character or something. I'll have to think about t he best way to do that. Vininn126 (talk) 16:52, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Okay, it works when the page begins with ch-. Are there any words that begin with ch- that begin with /x/? I also still need to figure out a good way to give /kʰ/ in the middle, any suggestions for letter combinations? I propose using CH in respellings. Vininn126 (talk) 10:14, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Well, I know that my appendix is not 100% complete and is not that reliable, but according to it, k͡x is used at the beginning of words and x in the middle.

Appendix:Upper Sorbian pronunciation Stríðsdrengur (talk) 11:23, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Read the conversation above... Vininn126 (talk) 11:30, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Oooooo sorry :) Stríðsdrengur (talk) 11:32, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

But it's really /kʰ/, not /k͡x/. I've read the latter too somewhere, but it's quite wrong. [k͡x] may in fact occur for initial "kr" and "chr", but not for "ch" on its own. (This must be either a mistake or a long obsolete dialectal pronunciation.) -- Regarding words with initial /x/ I wouldn't rule it out entirely. I read that "chcyć" may be pronounced [xt͡sɨt͡ʃ], although it's usually simply [t͡sɨt͡ʃ]. So I think we should have the general principle automatically, but also a possibility to override in both directions. 88.64.225.53 19:14, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

I have set q to print /kʰ/ and x to print /x/. If we have a foreign word with those letters, they will need a respelling. Vininn126 (talk) 20:56, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Good :) 88.64.225.53 13:27, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

All right. So I've read up on the details of /h/ and /w/. We can work with the basic rule that

• <h> is silent unless followed by a vowel;
• <w> and <ł> are silent unless adjacent to a vowel (i.e. followed or preceded).

There are some irregularities, e.g. "łhać" is /fat͡ʃ/ and "łžeć" is /bʒɛt͡ʃ/, but these are isolated cases which can be entered manually.

The only open question remaining for me now is how to deal with initial silent consonants that become audible in what may be called liaison. For example, we have "wsy" /sɨ/ vs. "ze wsy" /zɛ‿w.sɨ/, "mzda" /zda/ vs. "wo mzdźě" /wɔ‿m.zd͡ʒɪ/. We could represent these as /(w)sɨ/, /(m)zda/, but there may be better ways. 88.64.225.53 10:58, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Some examples for testcases would be useful. Vininn126 (talk) 11:17, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

You mean words as examples for the above rules? -- Okay, let's see. Initial before a vowel: "haj" /haj/, "hora" /hɔʁa/. Initial before a consonant: "hródź" /ʁʊtʃ/, "hlina" /lina/. Preconsonantal: "wuhlo" /wulɔ/, "nahły" /nawɨ/. Wordfinal: "Bóh" /bʊ/, "kruh" /kʁu/. Intervocalic: "Boha" /bɔha/, "alkohol" /alkɔhɔl/. -- In postconsonantal position it is often silent, but I haven't found any clear mention that this is obligatory or general, so we should keep it for now. Thus: "Zhorjelc" /zhɔʁjɛlts/, "pomhać" /pɔmhatʃ/.
I'll give you /w/ later today or tomorrow. 88.64.225.53 11:09, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

I added them to my sandbox. Feel free to add any other testcases you find. Vininn126 (talk) 11:13, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Okay, here you go with /w/: Initial + vowel: "woda" /wɔda/, "wutora" /wutɔʁa/, "łakać" /wakatʃ/, "Łužica" /wuʒitsa/. Initial + consonant: "wčera" /tʃɛʁa/, "wzać" /zatʃ/, "wróćić" /ʁʊtʃitʃ/. (Of course, not silent in <wj>: "wjesć" /wjɛstʃ/. With <ł> I'm only aware of the irregular words for "lying" already mentioned above.) Postconsonantal + vowel: "twaroh" /twaʁɔ/, "zwón" /zwʊn/, "mła" /mwa/, "mjetła" /mjɛtwa/ (with silent <h>: "hłowa" /wɔwa/, "jehła" /jɛwa/.) Postconsonantal without vowel: "wotwlec" /wɔtlɛts/, "mjetł" /mjɛt/, "kładł" /kwat/. Postvocalic: "zawróćić" /zawʁʊtʃitʃ/, "domow" /dɔmɔw/, "był" /bɨw/, "jałmožna" /jawmɔʒna/. Intervocalic: "Domowina" /dɔmɔwina/, "dźěławy" /dʒɪwawɨ/, "była" /bɨwa/. 88.64.225.53 15:54, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for the test cases. Aside from these phonological processes, is there anything else that needs to be accounted for? Vininn126 (talk) 16:18, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

I've (re)read some more things. I have a couple of points, some of which I'd already alluded to:
(1.) /x - kʰ - k/ -- I think we did good on this one. There is in fact a threeway minimal pair for them: "wuch-ow" /wuxɔw/ vs. "wu-chow" /wukʰɔw/ vs. "łukow" /wukɔw/. And there is also another word with initial /x/, namely the onomatopoetic "chachotać" (to laugh loudly). What I hadn't mentioned is that word-initial <sch> is also /skʰ/ as in "schód" /skʰʊt/.
(2.) /h/ -- I can now safely say that it is silent in word-initial <zh>. So correct "Zhorjelc" to /zɔʁjɛlt͡s/ above, but leave "pomhać" as it is (/h/ in the latter is considered very formal, but does exist). Also note that /h/, when it is pronounced, devoices a preceding obstruent: "podhódnoćić" /pɔthʊdnɔtʃitʃ/.
(3.) There is some irregularity with /d, t/ + /ʒ, d͡ʒ, ʃ, t͡ʃ/, but these cases have to be entered manually. By default they should be treated like normal clusters. Of course, <tř> is equivalent to a palatal <c>, thus /t͡s/ before i, ě and finally, otherwise /t͡sj/, e.g. "tři" /t͡si/, "nutř" /nut͡s/, "batřa" /bʁat͡sja/. <kř> and <př> are always /kʃ/ and /pʃ/.
(4.) /n ~ ɲ/ -- How are you handling the palatal nasal? In spelling it's pretty much the same as in Polish, where we use /ɲ/. In Sorbian, however, an actual [ɲ] doesn't exist. Written <ń> is pronounced /n/ after i, ě and sonorants, e.g. "ćerń" /t͡ʃɛʁn/, otherwise /jn/, e.g. "kóń" /kʊjn/. It's a fairly simple rule. Nevertheless I wouldn't disagree to using /ɲ/ as in Polish.
(5.) /w/ -- Initial /w/ + consonant is silent, but it can resurface (as I had mentioned). Now this only happens in nominals when preceded by prepositions. So maybe we could have a parameter |nom=1|, which then produces initial /(w)/ instead of zero. The syllable break would be after the semivowel, e.g. "wšo" nom=1 produces /(w)ˈʃɔ/. That would be optimal I think. (Apart from /w/ the same seems to happen only in two words with /m/, namely "mzda" and "mša", which we can handle manually.)
That would be all for the template. I've made a list of some irregular words like "hołb" /hʊjp/, which I'll work on once it has been "launched". 88.64.225.53 15:35, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

ARe you sure about /ɲ/? w:Sorbian alphabet seems to imply it's palatal. Vininn126 (talk) 15:42, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Okay, I see it's not /ɲ/, but would <ń> not print at least /nʲ/? Vininn126 (talk) 15:59, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Do you intend to use /Cʲ/ instead of /Cj/? We don't seem to do that in other West Slavic languages and I don't see any reason for it in Upper Sorbian. The system is the same as in Polish, so all instances of consonant + <j> can be interpreted as /Cj/. In fact, the phonetic realisation is also usually with a glide [j] (unless palatalisation is lost altogether, which happens with <je> in colloquial speech).
/ɲ/ can occur in the syllable coda, but as I said: it is realised [jn] after non-front vowels and [n] after front vowels and sonorants (merging with <jn> or <n> respectively). So in my mind there are two ways of dealing with it:
1.) As in Polish, i.e. /ɲ/ for any <ń> or <n> in palatal context: "ničo" /ɲit͡ʃɔ/, "něchtó" /ɲɪxtʊ/, "kóń" /kʊɲ/, "konja" /kɔɲa/, "ćerń" /t͡ʃɛʁɲ/, "ćernje" /t͡ʃɛʁɲɛ/.
2.) Without a special phoneme: "ničo" /nit͡ʃɔ/, "něchtó" /nɪxtʊ/, "kóń" /kʊjn/, "konja" /kɔnja/, "ćerń" /t͡ʃɛʁn/, "ćernje" /t͡ʃɛʁnjɛ/.
The second system is more minimalist and it reflects the actual pronunciation better, but the first system is a bit more internally consistent. So that's why I consider it a matter of preference and I would agree with either choice. 88.64.225.53 16:23, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Okay. And I think finally, what is the best transcription for <tř>? Vininn126 (talk) 11:13, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

/t͡sʲ/ Stríðsdrengur (talk) 11:17, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

French

I know French, by the way :) Fond of sanddunes (talk) 22:57, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

But I'm also extremely sloppy Fond of sanddunes (talk) 22:58, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Ok then, sorry Stríðsdrengur (talk) 23:31, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Despite what my userpage says! Fond of sanddunes (talk) 23:32, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

dont worry, everyone makes mistakes :) Stríðsdrengur (talk) 23:34, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

water

I made that edit when I was logged out, why the hell do we need (at least) ten different pronunciations of "water"? Isn't 4 or 5 enough? Esszet (talk) 03:22, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Because all these pronouncements are valid, the point is not to be enough, but to be as realistic as possible. Stríðsdrengur (talk) 10:31, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

No, the pronunciation section is supposed to provide a basic overview, not list every single pronunciation in existence. Look at the word of the day, for example: one pronunciation, two dialects listed. Scottish and Australian would both be different, but, for the sake of avoiding clutter as well as overload, they aren't included. This is a practice followed in 99% of entries. Esszet (talk) 23:56, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

@Esszet We don't delete things because of "clutter", and the only reason most entries don't give lots of information is because no-one has got round to it yet; not because we only care about prestige accents. Theknightwho (talk) 00:42, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

It sounds like you take Wiktionary way too seriously, and your expectations are completely unrealistic. There's no way you're ever going to get that level of detail on however many words there are in the English language, nobody has the time (let alone patience). I have noticed a trend towards excessive detail lately (such as the number box at two); most people would find it strange and off-putting. Relax and try to include reasonable amounts of information, not everything there is. Esszet (talk) 02:41, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

@Esszet I'm not expecting anything - I simply object to deleting stuff simply because you personally don't care about it. Theknightwho (talk) 04:31, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

That we shouldn't have details on any page because we'll never realistically have them on all pages is a completely lúdicrous argument. Nihilism hasn't and isn't going to build a dictionary. — SURJECTION ^{/ T / C / L /} 07:53, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Northern Sámi pronunciation

Hey, Stríðsdrengur. Here are my comments in regards to the pronunciation at buollinčáskadanbiila, which obviously wouldn't fit in an edit summary. The stresses (both primary and secondary) in compound words in Northern Sámi always fall on the first syllable of the individual lexemes. See Ante Aikio and Jussi Ylikoski's chapter "North Saami" in the The Oxford Guide to the Uralic Languages, page 152: "in compound words stress is assigned to the first syllable of each lexical constituent regardless of syllable count". The term buollinčáskadanbiila consists of three parts, buollin, čáskadan and biila. The secondary stress isn't gonna fall on the "dan" part, because that is the tertiary syllable of the second foot, not the initial syllable on the third foot. The template {{se-IPA}} does not know how to tell whether a word is a compound or not, and therefore not where to place the boundaries of the feet.

Also, <d> is pronounced like [ð] when it is between two unstressed syllables, i.e. between the second and third syllables of a foot. See Peter Klaus' "Samisk grammatikk", page 17: "d uttales som đ, når den inne i ordet mellom 2. og 3. stavelse" ("d is pronounced like đ when it is inside the word between the second and third syllable"). Whether to transcribe this as /t/ or /ð/ in broad transcription is ultimately up to debate, but I prefer to use /ð/ because it actually reflects the pronunciation of the word.

If you want further confirmation on the pronunciation, just listen to this radio broadcast (moment at 1:40) by Ođđasat. The commentator states the following: Ohcavuona gielda Finnmárkkus lea boarráseamos buollinčáskadanbiilla skeŋken Ukrainai. Note that he has an Eastern pronunciation, but the stress patterns and pronunciation of <d> are identical regardless. Wiktionary currently uses only Kautokeino pronunciation, i.e. Western pronunciation, probably because the author of the template found it to be the most consistent in regards to the spelling. The template is not sufficient for transcribing Northern Sámi, and cases like this are a prime example. I'd like to hear your reasons for actually believing it without double checking. ArcticSeeress (talk) 23:44, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation, I had forgotten that the module actually had some limitations/errors. Stríðsdrengur (talk) 10:32, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Re: "pls add pronunciation"

Not all pronunciation modules operate in the same way; Portuguese pronunciation has many more exceptions than, e.g., Spanish and often requires respellings. I can get by in Portuguese, but have much less experience speaking and listening. I only add pronunciations to Portuguese entries when I am totally confident that the module's output is correct. I suggest you do the same. Ultimateria (talk) 02:33, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

I speak Portuguese fluently :), but ok, don't worry, I can add it for you Stríðsdrengur (talk) 13:32, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Faroese

Hey there. I see that you wrote to me but I am always logged on when I do edits. But yeah, hmu about Discord. Mulder1982 (talk) 18:41, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

ooki Stríðsdrengur (talk) 18:43, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Date of OGP quotations

Could you tell me how does one know the date of an OGP quotation? I'm trying to add the etymology to Cornoalha, that I think is borrowed from Cornuaille, either from Old French (that existed until the ~1350's) or Middle French. Cornoalha is attested at the cantiga Maestre, tôdolos vossos cantares. Amanyn (talk) 16:09, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

@Froaringus and @MedK1 understand better than me, I just did some amateur editings in the past Stríðsdrengur (talk) 16:10, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Alright, thank you! Amanyn (talk) 19:42, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Ancient Greek vowel length

Hi, when using {{grc-IPA}}, please remember to mark α ι υ as long or short. Thanks! —Mahāgaja · talk 21:58, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

My bad, thanks Stríðsdrengur (talk) 22:56, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Template:roa-opt-noun

You can't just plug a module for another language into a headword template. Even if the parameters matched (upwards of 180 module errors says they didn't), it would categorize everything as the wrong language- Category:Old Galician-Portuguese nouns would be virtually empty. If someone replaced {{roa-opt-noun}} with {{pt-noun}} in all ~470 entries, you would revert them- why would you do it yourself? Chuck Entz (talk) 20:29, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Don't worry, I was a bit irresponsible for not testing it in my sandbox first, I'll fix that in a few minutes, I'm busy at the moment Stríðsdrengur (talk) 20:50, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Labels

Hi, thank you for your contributions but please read Wiktionary:Entry_layout#Context_labels. Labels such as "zoology" should not be added to commonly used terms for animals because that implies restricted usage (used solely or mainly by zoologists instead of by ordinary people). Fskel (talk) 23:36, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Oh sorry, I usually get these labels from the dictionaries I use, thanks for alerting me :) Stríðsdrengur (talk) 12:39, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

collaboration

Thanks for your collaboration. I'm glad we've both been able to correct/expand each other's work. Denazz (talk) 13:38, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks? I think... Stríðsdrengur (talk) 23:04, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

While I do sincerely enjoy your continued patronizing messages, I implore you to be more careful when editing Wiktionary. It is not a simple website. This labeled as "Vielli" shows you have lots to learn. Please read Wiktionary:Context labels for a start. Denazz (talk) 15:03, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Also, I'm not sure the content you added at blanc-bleu is correct. Denazz (talk) 15:05, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

That's completely correct, all I did was expand the incomplete page you made Stríðsdrengur (talk) 15:22, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

You may have been here longer than me, but French is something you're definitely not more advanced than me. Stríðsdrengur (talk) 15:20, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

• All this finger-pointing is not the way forward, Stringy. We're part of a team! Denazz (talk) 16:00, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

  Just for curiosity, why do you call me "Stringy" lol :) Stríðsdrengur (talk) 23:10, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

  @Phacromallus Stríðsdrengur (talk) 23:14, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

  Kinda rolls off the tongue more than the Icelandic shit in your usernamePhacromallus (talk) 23:29, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

  You made me remember that I must change my name to Stríðsdrongur. Stríðsdrengur (talk) 23:32, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

  What does it mean anyway? Mine is phac + romall + us = We are a pack of hankies. Phacromallus (talk) 23:35, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

  Stríðs (genitive of stríð: war, combat) + drongur (boy) = My adaptation to the fictional character's name W:Soldier Boy Stríðsdrengur (talk) 23:40, 18 March 2024 (UTC)