Talk:لا حول ولا قوة إلا بالله

RFD

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لا حول ولا قوة إلا بالله

It's a phrase, sure, but I'm not exactly sure why it would be dictionary-worthy. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 07:56, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

Because it looks like a set phrase. Is it? Using it might a speech act, like use of virtually any other proverbial expression.

AFAICT, the biggest reason we exclude religious set phrases is that there is a bias here against religion, though it could be a lack of the courage to face religious controversy. DCDuring TALK 13:43, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

Delete. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 14:41, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

@Atitarev: On what part of WT:CFI? DCDuring TALK 15:20, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

I don't have a strong opinion on this but it doesn't seem to fit any part. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 15:27, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

It is a phrase and a sentence. See Category:English phrases and Category:English sentences. DCDuring TALK 16:28, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

• Delete. CFI permits idiomatic phrases (including sentences), but I'm not seeing evidence that this is idiomatic, nor do I see anything in CFI that even defines what a "set phrase" is, let alone anything that permits them when they aren't idiomatic. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 18:03, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
• Delete per Angr. - -sche (discuss) 00:04, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Delete. Would feel the same about most full sentences from the Bible, etc. Equinox ◑ 00:06, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Deleted. bd2412 T 18:48, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

I missed this thread until I saw the deletion notice pop up on my watchlist, but I think it is dictionary-worthy in the same vein as الحمد لله and لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله. (see w:Hawqala) Aperiarcam (talk) 18:54, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Nonetheless, there is a clear consensus to delete, and it would take quite a substantial showing of opposition to deletion to reverse that at this point. bd2412 T 19:00, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

الحمد لله is entirely different, since it is actually used in discourse. لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله was kept as no consensus, so it cannot be used as an argument. --WikiTiki89 19:05, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

I concede that لا حول ولا قوة إلا بالله doesn't have conversational currency to the extent that الحمد لله does, but it certainly does have a range of idiomatic conversational meanings (see this work by Moshe Piamenta). My original rationale for including the phrase was that it was lemmatical enough to have its own special verb (حَوْقَلَ (ḥawqala)). The phrase is listed in Wehr under حَوْل (ḥawl). Aperiarcam (talk) 19:19, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Ok I read your link and understand what you're talking about now. Note that this deletion discussion only applies to the sense that was in the entry: "(Islam) There is no power or strength but in God". You can re-create the entry with a new sense summarizing the paragraphs in your link beginning with "One exclaims the ḥawqala when […] " and add some citations for it. If you don't add citations, I will probably nominate it for WT:RFV. You can also create the short forms لَا حَوْلَ وَلَا (lā ḥawla walā), لَا حَوْلَ إِلَّا بِاللّٰه (lā ḥawla ʔillā bi-l-lāh), and لَا حَوْلِ اللّٰه (lā ḥawli llāh), and the alternative form يَا حَوْل، يَا قُوَّة (yā ḥawl, yā quwwa), also preferably with citations. Also note that the existence of a name for the phrase (الحوقلة) is completely irrelevant to its idiomacity. --WikiTiki89 19:39, 16 August 2015 (UTC)