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So where do the Chinese "synonyms" come from?
- The Chinese call it 刺身 or 生鱼片. 刺身 and 生鱼片 are synonyms. The Chinese synonyms come from the Chinese language. —Stephen (Talk) 14:27, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
- "From the Chinese language". What a clever retort!
- Seriously, though, note the comparison with kimbap. Chinese Wikipedia keeps separate articles for 刺身 and 生鱼片 where the latter appears to be about raw slices of fish or meat in general. Why is that? Note that there was just recently a very similar discussion regarding the definition of sushi as "sashimi" which was later much more constructively redefined as "raw fish".
- Peter Isotalo 14:35, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
- (reply copied from user talk:Atitarev)
- 生魚片／生鱼片 (shēngyúpiàn) is also used in the sense of the Japanese "sashimi", as well as some other words, like 魚生／鱼生 (yúshēng). Are you satisfied and will leave the page alone or you want me to start a discussion at Wiktionary:Tea_room#December_2014? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 18:58, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
- Yes, I know you believe that to be true. Not sure why you're merely repeating this and then locking down the article to your own version.
- I've pointed out some discrepancies in how Chinese speakers organize the Wikipedia entries on these terms. It looks like "生魚片" has a more general meaning that relates to any similar "raw slices of fish"-dish. So is this how synonyms of translations are defined? Because this definition of "sashimi" doesn't seem to exist in English.
- Peter Isotalo 22:17, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
- 生魚片 is not a synonym of a translation, it is what the Chinese call sashimi. 生魚片 also means kuai. So what? Do you think there is a rule that Chinese terms cannot have more than one meaning, or that terms with more than one meaning are somehow disqualified? —Stephen (Talk) 08:33, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
- A word that would be a synonym to two culturally specific dishes at the same time seems like an oddity to me. To me, it would be like adding brännvin as a Swedish translation to vodka, no matter how similar they are. Maybe I'm wrong, though, and this is an exception. It would probably be easier to discuss this the conversation was about some form of external references. Like why "kuai" was added as a definition at 生魚片. I mean, the Chinese Wikipedia article about that concept actually contains the statement "日本生魚片稱為刺身" ("Japanese sashimi (?) is called sashimi").
- Tooironic was the one who added the terms, so I've left a note on the user's talkpage about this discussion.
- Peter Isotalo 14:26, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
- @Tooironic It's not an oddity. As you know, Chinese seldom use phonetic translations, so for "devil" Chinese uses own words with similar but not exactly the same original senses, like 惡魔／恶魔 (èmó), which doesn't have the same image as "devil" in the European sense. No, it's not an exception. Unlike Swedish, Chinese may use 白酒 (báijiǔ) for the "vodka" sense, even if it's not exactly the same. Loanwords are not always favoured in Chinese. You can use qualifiers, like 俄式白酒 (Russian-style "baijiu"), similar to the way samurais are called 日本武士 (Japanese warriors). I have answered some questions in User_talk:Atitarev#sushi. 生魚片 is a valid Chinese word for "sashimi" - sashimi@MDBG. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 23:03, 30 December 2014 (UTC)