User talk:Daniel Carrero/2008

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Welcome[edit]

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wiktionary. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:


I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wiktionarian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk (discussion) and vote pages using four tildes, like this: ~~~~, which automatically produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to one of the discussion rooms or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! --Ivan Štambuk 18:43, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Portuguese templates[edit]

See my talk page, all done. You were off trying to make things very hard on yourself! Robert Ullmann 11:39, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh dear, why did you go to so much trouble, now we have to undo the others. Not too hard. Robert Ullmann 11:41, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
Okay, now we need to remove all the links you added ...
Other detail: in {{pt-conj-ir}} I made the cat conditional on the pagename=infinitive; then the table can be used anywhere, and only the infinitive goes in the cat.
{{#ifeq:{{PAGENAME}}|{{{1}}}ir|[[Category:Portuguese verbs ending in -ir]]}}

See? Robert Ullmann 12:05, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

oh, and leaving a line break between the close div tags and the includeonly is not what you want Robert Ullmann 12:07, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
okay, I think I've got them all. If you need a blank cell, use "-" (single hyphen), but I didn't see any such cases? Robert Ullmann 12:48, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

pt-conj[edit]

In this edit, you "Added past participle variants". I didn't know there were any variants in Portuguese. Spanish doesn't have them, and I haven't heard of variants in Galician either. Would someone really say: "Tenho comida." (I have eaten [feminine])? or "Tenho falada." (I have spoken [feminine])? It sounds wrong to me to use these "feminine" forms to construct compound verbs. --EncycloPetey 06:53, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

You've not quite answered my question. I did not ask about infinitives or about adjective use of the participles. I am only asking about verb use of the participle. You see, in Spanish there are feminine forms of "participles" like the ones you describe, but they are used only as adjectives, not as part of a compound verb. The same is true in French. Are you saying that Portuguese is different from both of these languages? I am asking only about uses in compound verb constructions with auxillary verbs like ter. Uses with estar aren't meaningful for this discussion because that verb is a copula, so "participles" used with it are being used as adjectives. I have limited resources on Portuguese grammar, but none of them show feminine participles used in compound verbs; all verb usage is of the "masculine" only. --EncycloPetey 15:14, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Renaming high-use templates is a bad idea, as it puts a strain on the server, since it has to re-render every page calling the template. Also, the convention is to use conj-ar for all Iberian languages. Making Portuguese different from all the other languages is likely to lead to confusion later. Yes, it's a subtemplate, but the name does not have to reflect that. (The slash doesn't actually put it in a subdirectory.) --EncycloPetey 06:50, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

I have to change what I said before about the template name; I think you've chosen correctly. I didn't fully understand what you were doing then, but I do now. you're not setting things up the way the other languages have, so having different names the way you set them up is a good idea. --EncycloPetey 22:56, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

PS - The header line for the conjugation table is not working. Look at what it's doing for ser "ser er" --EncycloPetey 06:52, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Template:pt-verb form of[edit]

Looks good.

Two comments:

  • it would be good to use {{qualifier|Brazil}} instead of explicitly (''Brazil''); that way the customizations users can set will work. (not displaying the ()'s, italicizing them, etc)
  • I think it would be better to use {1} instead of {infinitive}; while infinitive= is not wrong, this would be consistent with all of the other "form of" templates, which use the first un-named parameter as the referenced form.

(oh, one other random comment: if you leave the edit summary blank when creating an entry, it uses the page text, this is very easy to follow in the logs; and "created entry" doesn't really say anything :-) Cheers, Robert Ullmann 09:22, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. :-) As you said, {{qualifier|Brazil}} looks better. Done.
When I made the {{pt-verb form of}}, I was trying to make a simpler way to gather all the information required to generate one or more definitions. So, it would be something like {{pt-verb form of|achar|ar|indicative-present-singular-third|imperative-affirmative-singular-second}} to generate: Third-person singular (ele, ela, also used with você) and second-person singular (tu) affirmative imperative of verb Template:wlink. Now it is possible to use {{{1}}} instead of infinitive, but even if I chose to use named parameters, it could change anytime. Daniel. 10:45, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Conjugated forms[edit]

Hi! I noticed that you have been adding conjugated forms of Portuguese verbs. If you intend to do much more of this type of thing, you might consider setting up a bot for this purpose. I don't know how to do this, but you might ask User:Connel MacKenzie, or User:SemperBlotto, who runs User:SemperBlottoBot, which adds conjugated forms of Italian verbs, or User:EncycloPetey, who runs User:FitBot, which adds conjugated forms of Latin verbs. —AugPi 03:51, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Hello and thanks for your advice. Yes, I am adding those forms and I intend to do much more of this type of work. I am copying and pasting all those entries for verb forms and changing specific parts, so I don't think it would change my work very much if I would use a bot to do that now (for example, one to copy the entries automatically from a text file). But I already am thinking of creating a bot later for this and other similar tasks; probably when the templates, categories and existing entries will be better organized, as you can see at my to-do list. Daniel. 05:00, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

pt-noun form of[edit]

I'm a bit confused by this template. Is this for noun forms of words that function as other parts of speech, or simply for plural forms of nouns. If it's for plural forms of nouns, it ought to be named according to our usual conventions as {{pt-noun-form}} (see {{la-noun-form}}}, {{la-verb-form}}, etc.). The extraneous "of" will confuse other editors, as it is used only to name form templates that apply to multiple parts of speech.

I also notice that the template does not display the definition line with the usual italicized format that is standard for "form" definitions, but I hesitate to correct this as I can't quite tell what all the intended functions of the template are. It seems to take several parameters that (to my eyes) don't do anything. --EncycloPetey 18:12, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

According to their talk pages, the templates {{la-noun-form}} and {{la-verb-form}} are used for inflection lines. The template {{pt-noun form of}} has a different use, that would be better compared to {{es-verb form of}}, {{pt-verb form of}}, {{comparative of}}, {{plural of}}, {{augmentative of}}, {{past of}}, {{inflection of}}, etc.
It creates simple definitions for inflected noun forms. Each possibility of inflection is defined by an unnamed parameter. Portuguese nouns can vary on:
  • gender (masculine or feminine)
  • number (singular or plural)
  • degree (augmentative, diminutive or neither)
As an example, here are all the intended uses of this template for the Portuguese word filho:
Entry Template call Result text
filho lemma form, template not used
filha {{pt-noun form of|filho|feminine|singular}} Feminine singular of noun filho.
filhos {{pt-noun form of|filho|masculine|plural}} Masculine plural of noun filho.
filhas {{pt-noun form of|filho|feminine|plural}} Feminine plural of noun filho.
filhão {{pt-noun form of|filho|masculine|singular|augmentative}} Augmentative masculine singular of noun filho.
filhona {{pt-noun form of|filho|feminine|singular|augmentative}} Augmentative feminine singular of noun filho.
filhões {{pt-noun form of|filho|masculine|plural|augmentative}} Augmentative masculine plural of noun filho.
filhonas {{pt-noun form of|filho|feminine|plural|augmentative}} Augmentative feminine plural of noun filho.
filhinho {{pt-noun form of|filho|masculine|singular|diminutive}} Diminutive masculine singular of noun filho.
filhinha {{pt-noun form of|filho|feminine|singular|diminutive}} Diminutive feminine singular of noun filho.
filhinhos {{pt-noun form of|filho|masculine|plural|diminutive}} Diminutive masculine plural of noun filho.
filhinhas {{pt-noun form of|filho|feminine|plural|diminutive}} Diminutive feminine plural of noun filho.
As for the usual italicized format that is standard for "form" definitions: as far as I know, all italicized definitions were made manually by users who weren't using a template, or perhaps you are talking about your personally defined "use-with-mention" - if that is the case, it is now fixed. Daniel. 19:47, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
Yes, use-with-mention is what I was discussing, but I wanted to avoid the jargon in case you weren't familiar with it. And you're right about the mismatch in noting examples. I am curious why you chose to use the fully-spelled out "masculine", "feminine", etc, instead of using the standard abbreviated forms m, f, etc., which the template could then expand. It would mean a lot less typing, and less chance for a spelling error. --EncycloPetey 20:24, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
So, may I assume that the template will be useful and I chose correctly its name? There was no particular reason to choose the fully-spelled options for the parameters, so I can change them. Actually, I couldn't find standard abbreviated forms for "augmentative", "diminutive", "comparative" and "superlative" for both the templates {{pt-noun form of}} and {{pt-adj form of}}; however, it's done. Additionally, could you please read the newly written documentation for these two templates, to see if they are better explained? Daniel. 04:05, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Template:attention[edit]

Please do not edit high-use templates without discussing porposed changes first. --EncycloPetey 23:45, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

The main purpose of that edit was to add a category. So, thanks for adding it again. Daniel. 01:18, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Opinion on {{suffix}}[edit]

Hi, what's your opinion of the name of the categories created by {{suffix}}? I would like to propose renaming them without the quote marks, but am not sure if I'm the only one who finds them interminably irritating. Conrad.Irwin 19:09, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, since the category Category:Hungarian suffixes doesn't use those quote marks, something has to change either way. Personally, I just don't like the text Entries in category “Portuguese words suffixed with “-ico”” (with quote marks between quote marks). So yes, I agree with your proposal. Daniel. 19:29, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Portuguese parts of speech[edit]

Please do not alter the category structure without discussing the change first. The language categories are all set up the same way across Wiktionary. Having one language radically different from the others will confuse users. --EncycloPetey 20:55, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

When I started to alter the category structure of the Portuguese parts of speech, I was just following the English example: please see Category:English parts of speech. By the way, it seems a good idea, so I am still planning to do a few tests on Category:Portuguese parts of speech. It will not necessary to remove any category from Category:Portuguese language, though. Daniel. 21:10, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Template:langcatboiler[edit]

Nesting the {if} staements does not reduce server strain. The way the software works, every possible if-fork is worked out, which puts the strain on the server. --EncycloPetey 20:57, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

It is an interesting paradox: if every if-fork is worked out, the result of the previous if does not matter. Sorry, I didn't understand what you meant - and how can they work, if most are likely to not be reached. Daniel. 21:16, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
That's correct, it works the entire thing out even when one "if" is false. Unfortunately, I don't have the skill to work out a better solution, which is why I posted in the GP. Some others here might be able to generate a nice bit of code that will do the same function without stressing the server. The alternative is simply to leave the geogrphic links out of the template, if nothing can be worked out. --EncycloPetey 21:18, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Language templates cat[edit]

ah, you are the one doing this! (:-) Category:Language templates is the code templates for language names. (See the description.)

Other templates related to languages and their categories do NOT belong there! They just go in the language cat. Please desist, and clean up what you can, I will strip the rest. Robert Ullmann 00:37, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Sigh, okay, lets figure out where to put these; they need their own cat somewhere. Robert Ullmann 00:40, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
...what? I only added Romansch and Neapolitan to a whole group of subcategories. Should they not be there? Ok, let's do a Category:Templates by language. Daniel. 01:15, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
Robert, this category originally existed for the language-specific templates as Daniel has correctly added. The category description was added later, when the category was adopted as the place to put ISO codes. It might be better to move all the ISO templates to a Category:ISO templates. --EncycloPetey 00:53, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Old Norse[edit]

Note that the pre-edit version of this category sorted differently. [1] You'll need to add a DEFAULTSORT to keep the sorting as it was before. --EncycloPetey 00:50, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Done. However, it leads to a possible mess, especially when every subcategory is sorted in a different way. I noticed the change of order made in a few of my edits, but that was an effort to clean up the Category:All languages and others. Preferably, this new parameter shouln't ever be used (or should be used regularly). Daniel. 01:11, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
It should be possible to sort just once, rather than repeating for each possible including category. That way, it would necessarily be consistent. --EncycloPetey 01:31, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
Is there a way to handle portions of text, to ignore recurring words like "Old", "Middle" or "the"? Looks like we need this [2]. Daniel. 02:04, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

obrigado[edit]

Hi Daniel, Thanks for cleaning up the messy entries I've been making in the "-ridden" category. I'm new to Wiktionary (though I've been around Wikipedia for longer). --BodegasAmbite 15:07, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

De nada! Don't worry about it. As a newcomer, please read Wiktionary:Criteria for inclusion and Wiktionary:Entry layout explained if you didn't. I made a few more edits to the "-ridden" entries, please try to follow on (e.g., the template {{en-adj}} already generates a bold inflection line; when you try to format it directly, you are shifting to non-bold instead). Daniel. 15:50, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

-en[edit]

Hi Daniel. A lot of these entries shouldn't actually be in that -en category, since on the Cat page it says it's only for adjectives which have been formed from nouns -- it's NOT just a spelling category. Things like overladen and driven do not belong there. Ƿidsiþ 18:04, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Interfixes[edit]

Hi Daniel.,

Please just leave the interfixes alone for now. It's likely that they'll up getting changed somehow, perhaps to "infix" as you suggest, but in the meantime, a revert-war with Doremítzwr (talkcontribs) isn't going to accomplish anything. (Personally, I think we should just use "affix" for everything that's not a prefix or suffix, but it hasn't really been discussed.)

Thanks in advance!
RuakhTALK 00:40, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

orquestrar[edit]

Could you convert this to a Portuguese entry please? It's not valid in Spanish. Nadando 02:59, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Done. --Daniel. 03:53, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

WT:FUN[edit]

Hi Daniel.. As of my last calculations, you, SemperBlotto and I are currently winning, and there's about 30 points difference between us. The game is on! --Jackofclubs 08:16, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

You're now top, unfortunately ;). I must change my tactics considerably. --Jackofclubs 15:08, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
Heh. Good luck. :) --Daniel. 21:05, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Admin[edit]

Hello Daniel, would you be interested in being a Wiktionary admnistrator? I think you have been helpful with the maintenance of this website and with Portuguese entries, and if you are interested I will set up an admin vote for you. --Jackofclubs 20:15, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

p.s. It's very close between us 3 in the competition, I'm not sure who has won ;). --Jackofclubs 20:15, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I am interested and would be honored in being a Wiktionary administrator. Thank you for your appreciation. And, I'm going to claim my place on the competition podium soon. --Daniel. 13:51, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
Please accept the nomination at Wiktionary:Votes/sy-2008-12/User:Daniel. for admin‎‎ . Good luck. --Jackofclubs 16:52, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
  • OK - you should now have some new buttons. Please add a section at Wiktionary:Administrators#administrators. Cheers. SemperBlotto 22:17, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
    Yes, they are here. Thank you. --Daniel. 11:58, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
    OK. When you have time between edits, please patrol recent edits, revert vandalism and block vandals - thus making the hassle worthwhile. Cheers. SemperBlotto 13:45, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

suffixcat[edit]

Thank you for adding suffixcat to Hungarian suffix categories. I keep forgetting it... :( --Panda10 14:46, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome, Panda10. --Daniel. 16:02, 27 December 2008 (UTC)