User talk:Conrad.Irwin/₁

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I archive my talk page when it gets to ~75 topics by moving the first 50 to a new subpage. Please do not edit the archive pages, if you want to talk about something again - copy it back to my current talk page or just start a new topic there and link back.

tweak request for anagrams bot[edit]

diff. You use the final kaf U+05DA in the alphagram instead of the regular kaf 05DB, which is what you should use. (I know, it's counterintuitive, but Unicode has the odd forms before the normal ones.) I assume you do the same for the other pairs, so: 05DE is standard (not 05DD), 05E0 (not 05DF), 05E4 (not 05E3), and 05E6 (not 05E5). Thanks.​—msh210 19:16, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes, this was pointed out further up the page. I'll try and fix it when I change the layout to the new format. Conrad.Irwin 10:39, 1 January 2010 (UTC)


Mglovesfun (talk) 11:53, 1 January 2010 (UTC)


Does this serve any purpose now? Mglovesfun (talk) 13:15, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Index:Old French[edit]

Do you think we now have enough entries to justify this? Mglovesfun (talk) 14:40, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

I am happy to make an index regardless of the number of entries in a language, it will only grow after all. I assume the sorting criteria are the same as for French? Conrad.Irwin 15:15, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
I would stick to 26 letters (that is, no diacriticked letters like É) which is what I think you mean. Mglovesfun (talk) 15:16, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Timezone box[edit]

Would you put a "UTC+0" timezone box to your user page? It is good to know that you are basically in the same time zone as I am. --Dan Polansky 12:38, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Slight Mistake on Volapük Entry[edit]

A little embarrassing, sorry: it was actually züflumön that was the correct entry, züflimön was the mistake. All apologies, the two words are very similar. Chuffable 18:50, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Not seeing züflumön in Google Books, Scholar, Groups, News, News Archive, or even Blogs. And all the Web hits seem to be mentions. Fwiw.​—msh210 18:56, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

anagrams in multiple languages[edit]


Diff at dominate. Note the existence of Italian anagrams of the same word, which you added to mondiate on December 10, but not to dominate.​—msh210 20:03, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

The intention was to do all languages at the same time, however trying to load all the anagrams in both English and Italian, it uses more than its fair share of memory, I'm not sure there's much I can do about this (I might try running it on the toolserver instead of Amgine's machine, but I think that is also memory limited), or see if I can spot any obvious points of optimisation. Conrad.Irwin 20:18, 7 January 2010 (UTC)


diff ... Usually it adds the translation in the alphabetical place where it should be, but recently it's just placing it at the end. L☺g☺maniac 00:01, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

I guess that's because it can't sort with the {{trreq}}s properly. I'll try to get round to fixing it, in the meantime, maybe we can ask Razorflame to stop adding so many unfufillable requests. Conrad.Irwin 00:11, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
I don't think it is just with trreqs. It was doing it to me the other day with no trreqs... It may be my wierd browser though. I'll try in Firefox later when I have more time.  :) L☺g☺maniac 00:48, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
Seems to work in Firefox (even with trreqs), so it's probably this bastard browser Safari again. No big problem to worry about, though, as I'm not adding translations often. :) L☺g☺maniac 01:47, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for letting me know, /me ponders... Conrad.Irwin 02:04, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

eo-without pronunciation[edit]

Hi there CI. I decided to move both of the lists that you generated into my userspace to allow for easier access to the lists and to allow for me to possibly break down the lists into shorter pages so that they load faster and so that I can work through them faster. Anyways, hope you don't mind, Razorflame 21:43, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Is that alright with you? Razorflame 00:54, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
of course (and even if it wasn't, as I've released them under the GFDL, you're quite at liberty to move them wheresoever you like). Conrad.Irwin 08:24, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
I've broken them down into 19 subpages. I was wondering if it would be possible to make a bot program that I could run weekly to update the 19 subpages based on how I've broken them up that would update them and add new pages without pronunciation sections and remove ones with pronunciation sections. Do you think that that would be possible? Cheers, Razorflame 08:40, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Archiving RFD[edit]

Not sure quite what system you use for archiving RFV, but anything <s>[[like this]]</s> can be archived on RFD. I don't have that many left to do, but it is quite slow. Mglovesfun (talk) 18:18, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

I was planning to expand to RFD at some point, at the moment it still requires manual oevrsight (to get the correct template when it hasn't been closed with Passed, Failed or Striking (or similar). I will have a look at doing RFD, I think people are less rigorous about using Kept, Deleted or Striking there though. Conrad.Irwin 18:25, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
WT:RFDO is a lot smaller than those two (about a third of the size of RFD) but could do with the same treatment. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:36, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Category:Category redirects which are not empty[edit]

This looks like a bot job to me - I've been wanting to create my own bot for ages, but I'm a total amateur. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:45, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Are you asking me to do it, or are you asking for help to do it yourself? On the assumption of the latter, go and download python 2.6.4 (and install it) then go and download pywikipediabot-nightly (and unzip it to your computer) then "run" on the command line. (Assuming you're on Windows, Start -> Run -> cmd, then "cd C:\path\to\pywikipediabot", then "python -cat" (the -cat tells it that you want to run the replacement on pages in a category). This should be enough to get you started - there are about a million different switches to that allow you to modify its behaviour in many many ways, try running "python -help".
If you want to do more complicated things, you will need to learn python - don't worry, it has a reputation for being one of the most pleasant programming languages to learn. I would also recommend installing a good text editor if you don't have one yet (from memory NotePad++ for windows is not a bad place to start), trying to read code with no syntax highlighting is like trying to read english with no punctuation. Conrad.Irwin 12:00, 12 January 2010 (UTC)


Please note that I wasn't trying to get him desysopped permanently. I was only wanting him desysopped for the duration of his twenty-four hour block because I knew that he would unblock himself. That was the whole reason why I wanted him desysopped in the first place. This whole thing has gotten way out of hand, which isn't what I was trying to do. He shouldn't be allowed to skip most of his block just because he is an administrator. Razorflame 09:52, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

I am not hugely concerned about the current issue, it has been resolved. Conrad.Irwin 13:02, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
That it has. You can just ignore this message, then :). Razorflame 13:17, 15 January 2010 (UTC)


Hi there Conrad. There are two things that I would like to ask if you would be willing to do these two things for me:

  1. Can you make me a list of every translation that I have added that I have not made an entry for? For example, could you make a bot go through my contributions and add all of the redlinked translations added to a page for me please?
    No, I haven't got the environment set up to analyze the history, and setting it up would take time. Conrad.Irwin 13:57, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
    Ok, no problems. I've been keeping a manual history :). Razorflame 14:00, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
  2. Can you make me a list of every Esperanto headword that does not have its' inflected forms? (nouns and adjectives only).
    Yes, at some point; though you might want to try Ullmann for this (he has something similar at User:Robert_Ullmann/Missing_forms) Conrad.Irwin 13:57, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
    I think I might go bug Ullman for this one. Thanks for the advice! Cheers, Razorflame 14:00, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

If you could do these two things for me, I would be very, very grateful! Cheers, Razorflame 13:30, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

  1. Ok, it seems as though Ullman is absent now, so I would appreciate it if you could do this one for me very much! Thanks, Razorflame 11:04, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Ok. The form-of entries that are provided by each template:

Cheers, Razorflame 14:39, 21 January 2010 (UTC)


Was going to ask about the memory on the machine, and whether it would be okay to shut it down. If you could e-mail about that I'd be grateful. - Amgine/talk 18:50, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Hungarian reverse index[edit]

Hi Conrad, this is not urgent, but when your time allows, would you be kind to build a reverse index for Hungarian? Considerations:

  1. The sorting will have to be a little different than for the regular index, all vowels should be sorted as a separate letter.
  2. The digraphs/trigraph cs, dz, dzs, gy, ly, ny, sz, ty, zs should be considered as one letter, as usual.
  3. What do you think about using the Hungarian words appendices (e.g. Appendix:Hungarian words A) instead of the live data? Which one is easier for you?
  4. No need to refresh the reverse index often, maybe once or twice a year.
  5. It could be built slowly, one letter at a time, if this is easier.

Please let me know what you think. Thank you. --Panda10 15:55, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi, sorry for the delay in responding, I seem to have missed this section; by "reverse" you mean sorted by suffix?
  1. All vowels sorted as a seperate letter? - what's different?
  2. That's fine
  3. I can use either, if you'd prefer the appendix.
  4. Yay,
  5. No, it's easier to just set it up and run them all at once
Conrad.Irwin 14:12, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
By reverse I mean a list of words sorted from the end of each word, not from the beginning. The word "reverse" may not be correct but I don't know the appropriate term. It might be rhyme dictionary? So for example, asztal (table) would be listed on the L index page, not on the A as in the regular index. We have to come up with a good name for the new index to distinguish it from the the regular index.
  1. Today I took a look at the sorting of the regular index, and I realize that it is not correct. In paper dictionaries, the vowel pairs are treated as equal in sorting: a=á, e=é, i=í, o=ó, ö=ő, u=ú, ü=ű. The only time when they are not equal is when everything else is the same in the word, for example: kör and kőr. In that case, ö comes before ő. These two words should come immediately after each other in the index. In the current index all words with kö come before all words with kő which is not how paper dictionaries are sorted. So that's why I said that in the reverse dictionary the vowels are distinguished. They are not equal.
Hrm, I thought this was how it was done, I'll fix the real indexes at the same time.
  1. The live data is much less than the appendices, so it might be easier to start with the smaller amount and detect sorting problems. When you update the index, do you completely overwrite it or you just add the changes? Thanks. --Panda10 23:04, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
I completely overwrite it; it really makes no difference where the data comes from or how much of it there is. Conrad.Irwin 23:25, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Translation gloss button[edit]

I reember that you made a big button on the beer parlour once, when we press it we could edit the trans-gloss easily. Please can you show me that button again, it was really magic! --Volants 15:11, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Sure, it's at WT:EDIT, at some point I will add it to WT:PREFS too. Conrad.Irwin 15:19, 19 January 2010 (UTC)


Since we were discussing it, do you think there should be a quorum for votes? It has come up a few times. --Bequw¢τ 17:35, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I would say that any vote that doesn't have more than 4 or 5 voters can't possibly dictate anything useful. Conrad.Irwin 19:56, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


Dunno whether this is a problem or not, but just thought I should being it to your attention. When I just created an English plural, acceleratedly, a stray space was sitting at the end of the inflection line. (The singular was reagant.)​—msh210 20:27, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

It's just a "not very nice", with the original architecture it was easier to put a space there for language with no gender than to try and insert the space for languages with gender. Conrad.Irwin 20:30, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


Hi. Do you need some help in this project ? My bot, CaBot, can probably help you in this difficult task ;-) -- Quentinv57 21:37, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

What does it do? Conrad.Irwin 22:21, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
I have programed it by myself, so it can do whatever I want. For example, it can even import the meteo on french Wikinews [1]. -- Quentinv57 12:41, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
I don't have many outstanding tasks (though you could do razorflame's request above if you like); if you find a task you want to do, ask on WT:BP and the chances are people will let you do it. My current focus is on improving the semi-bot tools that we have (in javascript) like WT:EDIT for translations and WT:ACCEL for form-of entries; if you want to put your programming knowledge to good use, please feel free to help (I would like it a lot if someone created a quotation adder using User:Conrad.Irwin/editor_tutorial.js as a base; I also know lots of fr.wikt people wanted the translation adder stuff there too). Conrad.Irwin 13:25, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
The problem is that I'm not a JS expert. So I will look at the links you've given to me, but I think I will not be able to help you.
Probably have you some current tasks, like creating pages periodicly ? -- Quentinv57 18:27, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
See User:Conrad.Bot, so indices and anagrams; they are under control (though I need to spend a few minutes updating the anagram code to the new format). I also do other simple things as people request. One of the "it would be nice, but very hard to do right" tasks would be User:Conrad.Irwin/English nouns without categories. Essentially they all need {{en-noun}} or {{en-noun|-}} or variations on that theme in their inflection lines (deciding whether they are countable or uncountable can probably be done reasonably accurately with some google fun - though there'll be some edge cases you'll have to resolve manuallly). As for "form-of" creation, I think most languages are under control, but if you find one that isn't go and sell your services to an active native speaker, or alternatively create some kind of nice framework so people who don't know how to run bots can still request "form-of" creation on-wiki (but in such a way that it will only talk to a verified set of users; and ideally a way that allows people on wiki to specify the contents of the pages to be created). Conrad.Irwin 18:45, 21 January 2010 (UTC)


Hey there Conrad. Would you be willing to get onto IRC? There are some things that I would like to talk to you about. Thanks, Razorflame 13:59, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

New ISO 639-3 codes[edit]

SIL just made some code changes. I've deleted all the unused retired codes and am working on the used retired codes. Would be able to up create new language code templates for the new codes? (There's a few changes still pending that might come out in the coming weeks. I don't know if you'd want to wait, or do it now and we can deal with the others when they come out.) Cheers. --Bequw¢τ 21:38, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

I'd hope to create all the languages in the third section of User:Conrad.Irwin/language codes, presumably there are some that missed the boat previously too? Feel free to change the list or tell me how to change it to make it more acceptable. (I thought about automatically unbracketing (Ancient)s in the section list). Conrad.Irwin 22:57, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
Incidentally the list of templates in Category:Language codes that aren't in ISO is:
Thanks. I'm not sure about what to do about the ones with brackets in the names. I guess wait until someone needs them. As for the ones that aren't in ISO, I brought up most of those at Wiktionary talk:Language codes. nah is listed already at Wiktionary talk:Language codes. sfk was a misspelling of {{sbk}}. I think wel is valid (see though a duplicate of cy. --Bequw¢τ 23:35, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
I think it's ISO 639/2. Will set bot going on the others. Conrad.Irwin 23:54, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
You're right. We should get rid of it. --Bequw¢τ 02:06, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for uploading them. Would it be possible to upload the remain w:ISO 639-5 codes to the Template:etyl: prefix? --Bequw¢τ 15:36, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I'll try to do them this evening. Conrad.Irwin 16:05, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
Done except for the creoles and sign language: Conrad.Irwin 00:59, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
Thanks! (don't worry I won't give you a barnstar:) --Bequw¢τ 02:52, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

A few things all at once[edit]

  1. What do the colours mean on Index:French and the other indexes? Particularly the orangy colour.
    The orange colour is a "partlynew" link - a page exists, but not in the language we want (the idea and colour are hippietrail's, it would be confusing to have them as blue links, because the entry is not present - though I suppose they could be made the same colour as normal red links) Conrad.Irwin 13:24, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
    This all needs explaining on Wiktionary:Indexes. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:11, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
    Could you work out a nice place to put {{index key}}? Conrad.Irwin 16:26, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
  2. Have I pissed you off recently? If yes sorry, but that stuff happens.
    You personally, no. Some of your actions are a little trying - mainly, I think, because you continue to highlight things that need to be fixed at a fundamental level, particularly things that I am (or even the community are) unable to fix. Conrad.Irwin 13:24, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
    Duly noted. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:11, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
  3. Re: Wiktionary:About French/Todo, one good idea would be to add all the French words missing a part of speech category like English nouns without categories. If you could do that at some point, I would work on it (a bit).
    Yes, I'll generate you the nouns and then we can work from there. Conrad.Irwin 13:24, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
    Do as you will with user:Conrad.Irwin/French nouns without categories - are you in need of other parts of speech? Conrad.Irwin 14:08, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
    In theory yes, but there's a lot to do already. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:11, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
    Let me know when you want them then. Conrad.Irwin 16:26, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
Now seems fine, I will link to them. I suggest nouns, verbs, adjectives, adverbs and "everything else" all on one page. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:43, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
Would you be kind enough to fill out the table at User:Conrad.Bot/Missing categories, as that is the time-consuming part of this. It's not so easy to do "everything else" because without knowing what everything is, it's hard to know which categories it should fall into. Conrad.Irwin 11:53, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
Have only just seen this now. Yes I will do it. However alternative spellings should also be listed as nouns, right? Mglovesfun (talk) 13:43, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
Up to you, it created a lot more work that way (in English at least). Conrad.Irwin 00:39, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Answer to your question[edit]

Well, I said it's difficult to explain. Some would rather talk about prsten, but if they talk about rings in plural they'd rather use prstýnky resp. prstýnků even though it is grammatically a diminutive. In case of interest and/or doubt, go checking those jewelry shop sites scattered around the net. If they sell rings, they'd rather sell prstýnky than prsteny. Personally, I think it's because the Saturn rings in astronomy are called prsteny ALWAYS, and to distinguish this from the jewelry piece, they chose the diminutive. You can say it's very weird. [edit] ahhh...czech WP did also have something (did not expect this) w:cs:Prstýnek -andy 23:14, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Votes/pl-2010-01/New blocking policy[edit]

Wiktionary:Blocking policy/new is edited daily. In Wiktionary:Votes/pl-2010-01/New blocking policy, you may want to change the link to it, pointing to a specific revision (for instance, the last), so we know the exact text to vote. --Daniel. 17:13, 29 January 2010 (UTC)


Hi, could you please give your opinion and help us there? Thanks!! Pharamp 19:23, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Template:q and WT:PREFS[edit]

Hi Conrad.Irwin. The discussion at WT:RFDO#Template talk:q resulted in {{q}}’s highlighting style being changed to plain emboldenment. Could you edit the template so that a preference can be box-ticked to display a black box instead? The code you used originally is now retained at Template talk:q#“black box” term-marking code. Please let me know if this possible. Thanks.  (u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 12:00, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Done. Conrad.Irwin 12:20, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
Awesome, thanks. :-) One more thing… Would it be possible to use the lang= parameter to autocategorise a page whereon {{q}} is used into Category:English entries which contain quotations (as the default when the lang= parameter is unspecified), Category:Welsh entries which contain quotations (for lang=cy), &c.? Moreover, could the template be tweaked in such a way that such categorisation was only done when the template is used on a page in the main namespace (to avoid categorising discussion fora, which would be inappropriate, and Citations: pages, which would obviously contain quotations and which are already categorised by language by {{citations}})?  (u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 12:45, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
I could see this category being quite big (or do you intent to use it only with {{q}} and not plain quotations?). What would be the use of the category? Would there be similar Category:<LANG> Entries which contain translations/example sentences/images/synonyms/other ELE headers? If it's for some sort of todo list, would a XML-generated one be better? --Bequwτ 21:19, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
Since, ideally, all the quotations we have will one day use {{q}}, the category of all entries containing quotations formatted per the present guidelines should eventually the category of all entries transcluding {{q}}. The purpose of such categories would be to show, by process of subtraction, how many entries we have in a given language that lack quotations (the vast majority in all cases, I should wager), thus generating, as you suggest, a to-do list of sorts. I suppose the same could be done with {{t}}, {{t+}}, and {{t-}} for translations, and I was already thinking of {{q-ex}} for highlighting example sentences’ terms (which would autocategorise to Category:English entries which contain example sentences &c.) and {{q-tr}} for highlighting terms in the translations of foreign-language quotations (which would autocategorise to [[:Category:[LANGUAGE] entries which contain translated quotations]] if that is deemed useful and iff its lang= parameter is specified (since we don’t translate English quotations)).  (u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 01:17, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
I think generating the todo lists from XML-dumps would be easier for everyone, assuming there's no other use (either for a user or as cleanup) for these categories. The lists are easy to make (just a simple search pattern used in AWB, anyone could be then taught to run it). The search pattern could optionally weed out entries with {{q}}-less quotations (a similar pattern could look for example sentences). Editors (or bots) wouldn't have to hand-add the language parameter to {{q}}. I'd be happy to make you the first list and show how to make it in the future. Would you like it for a particular language now, or sometime in the future? --Bequwτ 00:22, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
That would be great. Could I take you up on it at some later point? Right now, I’m just trying to tie up loose ends and cut down on my commitments hereon. I appreciate the offer, sincerely.  (u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 01:38, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
Sure, anytime. --Bequwτ 01:58, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Index:Hungarian Jan. 31, 2010[edit]

Hi Conrad, for the last two index updates, only the main page was updated. The rest still shows Dec. 24, 2009. Could you please take a look? Thanks. --Panda10 22:26, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Just me being bitten by case-sensitivity again, should fix itself in the next half hour as the index script reruns. (I haven't forgotten about looking at the sorting, just haven't had time yet...) Conrad.Irwin 22:34, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
No problem about sorting. Whenever you have time. Thanks for the update. --Panda10 22:39, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Gadget help[edit]

I just added your iwiki.js as a Gadget, but am having a problem getting it to work. After checking the option for it in Special:Preferences and clicking "Save" I get the "Your preferences have been saved" message, but going back to the Gadgets tab shows that it's no longer checked (and the JS isn't loaded). I've tried this on FF, IE, and Chrome while using several skins. Do you encounter this problem? Have any ideas about how to fix it? Thanks. --Bequwτ 13:33, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

There is a slight bug in gadgets. The preferences table limits the length of preference names to 32 bytes, and "gadget-WiktAddProminentInterwikis" is 33. Unfortunately gadgets doesn't know this, so accidentally sets "gadget-WiktAddProminentInterwiki", which it cannot then find. I have moved the preference to this name, seeing as it makes sense as well as being shorter. Conrad.Irwin 00:37, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
Thanks a lot! --Bequwτ 01:56, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Do you have any thoughts about trying to get creation.js as a gadget? Here were some possible ways, I was thinking:

  • Order the NavPops gadget above WT:ACCEL so that we could peak at loadedScripts to see whether to load autoedit.js (hacky)
  • Always load autoedit.js even if the user already has popups.js (duplication but I don't think it would be a problem)
  • Make a local copy of popups.js without autoedit.js (we'd have to reintegrate/lose future updates).

Does one of these sound good? --Bequwτ 04:11, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I think it works fine if you load both popups and autoedit. I've been meaning to rewrite creation.js to just use preloadText (which I think we should put into common.js, it's used by several tools now, and there are thus several conflicting versions floating around); as it doesn't look like that will happen for far too long, option 2 seems like the most sensible. Conrad.Irwin 14:31, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Requested entries[edit]

That was kinda funny, deleting that. Did you click on the wrong link in recent changes? I've done that too. Mglovesfun (talk) 00:10, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Uh.. apparently. Sorry. Conrad.Irwin 00:35, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

bot boo-boo[edit]

Your bot really goofed here. Any way to search for other instances of the same error? —scs 03:18, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

I can't think of how to search for them; that problem was fixed pretty quickly; I know of one other page on which it happened. Thank you for fixing it. Conrad.Irwin 09:20, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

feedback edit[edit]

Hi Conrad, I have no idea what happened to my edit. Was trying to undo the latest vandal attempt but ended up deleting the whole page!. Truly sorry. JamesjiaoT C 23:36, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Don't worry about it at all! It's great to see someone doing the boring clean up work of their own volition. Conrad.Irwin 23:43, 10 February 2010 (UTC)


When your bot updates the Ido index, does it include the newly created User:Razorflame/Ido/NEW page? That is where I am keeping all of the new pages made over on the Ido Wiktionary for addition into the Ido Index here. Just wanted to make sure. Cheers, Razorflame 23:52, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Esperanto forms[edit]

Hi Conrad, I asked you a while back if you could fix the Esperanto adjective + noun forms by splitting up the adjective into the word minus "a" and adding |aj, |an, and |ajn as in this edit. I don't want to rush you; this is just a reminder. Ultimateria 02:46, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Script options[edit]

Do you have any thoughts on User talk:Hippietrail#Script options? Thanks. --Bequwτ 22:39, 13 February 2010 (UTC)


Hi, could you have Conrad.Bot do the Aramaic Index? Also, if it's possible to do indexes which are too small to have on multiple pages, could you also do Index:Ngarrindjeri? User:Roisterer has been updating it manually so far... --Yair rand 06:59, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

comma[edit] Just fyi.​—msh210 16:33, 16 February 2010 (UTC)


Could you explain how one could set up User:Conrad.Irwin/feedback.js on another Wiktionary (Simple)? Thanks. --The New Mikemoral ♪♫WT:APR 00:39, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

It should "just work" if you copy it there, and add importScript('User:Conrad.Irwin/feedback.js'); to MediaWiki:Common.js. Conrad.Irwin 11:36, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
Thanks! --The New Mikemoral ♪♫WT:APR 23:07, 20 February 2010 (UTC)


Hi there Conrad. Can your bot update the statistics on the statistics page (number of entries in each language)? Thanks, Razorflame 00:17, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, Razorflame 18:30, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Common.js question[edit]

I saw that the ta[] array of shortcuts and tooltips was moved around from monobook.js and eventually pared down a bit and put into Common.js. Is it still fully useful? Don't the Accesskey* and Tooltip* system messages take care of this? Is ta[] used somewhere that I'm not aware of? Thanks. --Bequwτ 06:39, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

I tried removing it once (under this impression), but Connel complained that it broke the keyboard shortcuts, so I added it back. Conrad.Irwin 09:46, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
Ah it's used in akeytt() of wikibits.js. I guess we need it for the custom namespaces. I've commented out the ones for the stock namespaces as we should use the system messages for those. Everything still works fine from here. --Bequwτ 18:46, 23 February 2010 (UTC)


I noticed that you added a rfv of not long for this world, but I am unable to find the discussion on WT:RFV. Is the discussion archived somewhere? The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 07:56, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

[2] Conrad.Irwin 12:29, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Edittools broken[edit]

What happened? There are now two confusingly similar pull-down menus when I go to an edit window, and the Default settings (which I use more than any of the standard lists) no longer appear. --EncycloPetey 03:52, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

I split the javascript for page edits out of MediaWiki:Common.js and into MediaWiki:Edit.js (as is done on Wikipedia). This caused a change in the timing properties of loading javascript pages, which means that instead of "Load MediaWiki:Common.js, run common.js, Load Conrad.Irwin/edittools.js, run edittools.js", it became (on your browser, but not mine) "load edittools.js, load MediaWiki:edit.js, run edittools.js, run edit.js" so the method of overriding the inbuilt edit-tools handler was broken. This should now be fixed. Conrad.Irwin 12:33, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
It's fixed on the PC I use. If it's not fixed on the Mac I use, I'll let you know. Thanks. --EncycloPetey 22:13, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

OK, the previous problem is fixed, but now the main lists don't insert any longer (the items don't even appear in blue). That is, my personal default lists work fine, but the Wiktionary-wide Edittools items do not work. Did another change happen? --EncycloPetey 05:35, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Nothing has changed since, that I am aware of. I'll have a look. Conrad.Irwin 08:25, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
For what it's worth, I'm having the same problem that Petey is. My personal edittools work, but none of the standard stuff is. — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 21:15, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
Fixed now? Conrad.Irwin 13:10, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
Yes, thanks. --EncycloPetey 00:09, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

French cleanup lists[edit]

Hi, you could upload the French proper noun and adjective lists somewhere w/ links to French sections. It would be good for Wiktionary:About French/Todo. The verb and adverb ones were small enough for me to do on my own, and the fr noun one seems not to be up-to-date, so we'll have to wait for the next dump. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:54, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

I've done all of them. Cheers. Mglovesfun (talk) 00:04, 15 March 2010 (UTC)


I'm sorry. Looks like we've tried to debug {{list}} (and related templates) simultaneously then a conflict happened. Did you find any problem with this template? Can you please inform how do you intend to change it? --Daniel. 14:47, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Hi, sorry. I should look at recent changes. You seem to have fixed the problem of {{list}} passing {{{lang}}} and {{list caller}} expecting {{{2}}} the opposite way to me. I will also stop special-casing English templates, it makes the templates more complicated for no reason. (And if the desired workflow is to add the {{list}} to a page and then use {{list placeholder}} to create the list, it doesn't matter. Conrad.Irwin 14:51, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
If you are talking about whether /en should exist at the end of English list template names, my choice was to exclude it to (1) automatically place links to English versions of all related foreign-language templates and (2) to make the English templates appear first at the PrefixIndex. Nonetheless, I agree with your change for consistency of template names; this evidently will take some more edits to make /en templates recognizable. The template {{list placeholder}} is called when a list template does not exist. You'll see it in action if you try, for example, {{list|qwertyuiop}} after debugging all templates. --Daniel. 15:15, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
Yes. It seems to be a fairly irrelevant feature, and it greatly confuses the template code (which is more than hard enough to read already). In terms of user-facing changes, I'd also like to change
{{list|basic colours|blues|lang=pt}}


* {{list|pt|basic colours}}
* {{list|pt|blues}}
As this makes it much more obvious that there are two lists, and also means that {{list}} can be used easily in situations where a different indentation is wanted ({{quote-book}} also suffers from this problem). I don't think the tiny amount of extra typing is a huge cost compared to the usability issues, but it's obviously debatable. (It would also allow the elimination of {{list caller}}). I would also like to subst: {{list placeholder}} into {{list caller}} (or {{list}} if the previous change is made). Splitting functionality between thousands templates makes it very much harder to make changes, all templates have to be edited at the same time, which means a lot of tabs open and constantly flicking between them - and while I could set up a local sandbox of all the templates, it takes a long time.
I am also not a huge fan of the juxtaposition of the (Category: )[edit], the braces look ugly back-to-back like that; but that is a trivial fix if someone can dream up a better look. Conrad.Irwin 15:30, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
Nice work so far, on edits such as taking out the external link indicator and consistently converting titles to lower case. I agree with your proposals of parameters arranged like "* {{list|pt|blues}}", deleting {{list caller}} and doing subst: of {{list placeholder}} into {{list}}. I like the existence of related category links and the edit link; that format of back-to-back braces was the best I could achieve, but of course you are welcome to try new formats if you want; the whole set of other acceptable possibilities to me would include category links italicized and without parentheses. --Daniel. 16:01, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Processed feedback[edit]

See also my comment on Wiktionary talk:Feedback. Do we necessarily want to keep these large, low usable content pages? Mglovesfun (talk) 00:04, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

AutoFormat and accelerated entries squabbling?[edit]

What's going on here? [3] Equinox 23:39, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

(Sorry to butt in) there's a space between the head word and the gender template. English plurals have no gender, but there's an extra space (which I take out manually when I do English plural, how worrying). Next time you're doing an ACCEL plural, click after the head word and you'll see the space. Mglovesfun (talk) 23:54, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
What he said. I should really fix it. Conrad.Irwin 00:09, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
Now fixed. Conrad.Irwin 01:18, 18 March 2010 (UTC)


Hi Conrad,

Please leave surnames, they are allowed. --Anatoli 05:22, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Sorry; thanks for fixing it. Conrad.Irwin 11:12, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Translation glosses[edit]

Could you generate a list of pages in Category:Translation table header lacks gloss with only 1 sense? That should make it easier to quickly get the easy cases out of the way. Nadando 03:31, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

It'll have to be tomorrow, but yes, I think I can. Good night! Conrad.Irwin 03:32, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

WT:STATS updating[edit]

I changed WT:STATS a few weeks ago, adding noinclude's and includeonly's so that it could be properly transcluded in Special:Statistics, but the update to the statistics seems to have undone the edit. Could the update process be changed so that the noinclude and includeonly tags aren't removed when the page is updated? --Yair rand 03:07, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

I have copied your changes to the master-copy of the page. Conrad.Irwin 03:15, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

{{list:days of the week/hu}}[edit]

This template adds the FL entry to two categories, the FL and the English. Is this by design? See hétfő. --Panda10 21:33, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Probably my mistake somewhere. I don't see the same behavior for the other FL "days of the week" templates. --Panda10 21:36, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
I've found it. I had to add hu to the category in the list template. I thought that it would take it from the language parameter. Sorry for the repeated messages. Thanks. --Panda10 21:39, 28 March 2010 (UTC)


I just discovered this. Looks great, it will definitely improve the dictionary. Couple of comments:

Will we be able to transliterate with added stress markers? E.g., it's common, and clearest for the reader, to render a Ukrainian word without stress markers (вітрогон), but add them in transliteration (vitrohón). I suppose the only solution would be to enter the name in twice (вітрогон | ts=вітрого́н).

Re. the sample tables, shouldn't caps normally be transliterated as uppercase–lowercase? Then they give conventional results in both all-caps and upper-and-lower examples like ППШ > PPSh, Єремія > Jeremija.

Ukrainian table should be ordered ї, й, not й, ї, and could have a couple more historical letters for use in cited forms (see the table in Appendix:Ukrainian alphabet). I think the Russian table should have і => i instead of і => u. Michael Z. 2010-03-29 19:52 z

I was the one who added the Russian table and yes, іt should have been і => i. I also tweaked the uppercase-lowercase thing. PS Ordering doesn't matter. --Vahagn Petrosyan 21:57, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
I was the one who added the Russian table and yes, іt should have been і => i. I also tweaked the uppercase-lowercase thing. PS Ordering doesn't matter. --Vahagn Petrosyan 21:57, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
The solution I had envisaged to the stress markers was to create two rule-sets, one that goes from stressed->unstressed (should be pretty easy to do, just kill off all the combining chars), and one that generates the transliteration from the stressed version. The idea is that templates like {{t}} will allow the user to override this extension's output using the existing tr=, with a little bit of analysis we can create a list of invokations of {{t}} with an "incorrect" looking tr= parameter. See for example .
Case-sensitivity was added later, which is why some maps have the upper-case rules too. The way it works is to automatically upper-case just the first letter of the "from" and "to" sides of the rule. This seems to give the right behaviour for acronyms, and for normal prose, though it obviously would fail if we had prose in all-caps. (Only for the rules that have multiple letters on the from side, which isn't too common, and it's easily fixed by manually adding those rules if desired).
Being totally ignorant, I let other people write the rules. If you want to join in, please do. Either at User_talk:Conrad.Irwin/Transliterator.php or (anyone may make themselves at home on that wiki if you want to play with the transliterator - or indeed anything wiktionary related). Conrad.Irwin 11:07, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
You know, it might be a good idea to stop adding the stress marks to transliterations altogether. It adds an element of pronunciation to what is intended to convey spelling. This combined usage contributes to entries like его#Russian (ego), which has been mis-transliterated jevó.
We already add pronunciation respelling for English (“enPR”), and some other languages. Likewise, we could use the scholarly notation to add easy-to-read pronunciation transcriptions to supplement the IPA in #Pronunciation sections, for Cyrillic and Glagolitic entries. Michael Z. 2010-03-30 16:39 z

Entry creation aider[edit]

Hi. I was just curious--what is the status of this template? Thanks!!--达伟 23:57, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

It's just a preliminary idea. If you want to work on it, please do! If you don't know javascript, just coming up with a simple, easy-to-use, interface is half the work. I should be spending my time on University, and not on Wiktionary for the next while, but as usual I'm not very good at that :s. Conrad.Irwin 23:59, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply. Sadly, I know nothing about programming. So at this stage, do you have support from any other users? Was your sense that various influential members of Wiktionary were interested in supporting this?--达伟 09:57, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
Yes, people seem generally supportive of it. "Influence" is pretty limited though, we're all volunteers after all. Conrad.Irwin 10:06, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
Probably "active" or "high producing" would be better terms--I guess I mean to say, if you don't have a great deal of time to devote, are there others who will pick up the project or do you think it is likely to be implemented in the near future? I do appreciate your efforts on this, though! It's a great idea!--达伟 21:32, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
There are some Javascript people around, but they mainly concentrate on more immediately useful things. Hopefully someone will surprise me :). If not, then I'm only working full-time (as opposed to doing a degree too) over the summer - so should be able to get it done then. Conrad.Irwin 22:06, 31 March 2010 (UTC)