User talk:Kutchkutch

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Marathi

Marathi does not use the Latin script. Mglovesfun (talk) 22:06, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

• Where possible, foreign entries should have an English translation (e.g. bhaji) rather than a definition. SemperBlotto 22:51, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Hindi words

None of your recent entries have ==language== sections. They may get deleted. SemperBlotto 08:09, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

माकड (mākaḍ)

Thanks for all the changes! —Aryaman ^{(मुझसे बात करो)} 10:29, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for noticing! I was curious how you were able to obtain the Maharashtri Prakrit word when you first made this page and Prakrit words on other pages such as those in this category [1] and especially in the Brahmi script. Did you find them in old Prakrit books on archive.org or Google Books such as [2] [3] and transliterate them into Brahmi from Latin script? Doing so appears to be hard since the books are so old and sometimes hard to understand. It is much easier to use digitised and searchable dictionaries from [4] but it does not seem to have any Prakrit resources. It does have an Old Marathi dictionary though. Kutchkutch (talk) 19:14, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

That website does have Prakrit in Turner's dictionary: [5]. It says:

Pk. makkaḍa -- m., °ḍī f., maṁkaḍa -- , °kaṇa -- m.

I think Turner only gives Maharashtri Prakrit. Some other sources: [6], [7] which give other Prakrit lects. For typing in Prakrit I use Module:typing-aids, so {{subst:chars|m|psu|makkaDa}} gives . [8], [9] have some pre-transliterated Prakrit texts too. Great to have another Indian-language editor! User:माधवपंडित is another one, he speaks Konkani, Kannada, and Hindi (and apparently some Marathi). —Aryaman ^{(मुझसे बात करो)} 19:33, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for discussing this! It seems that ‘Prakrit’ on its own is not a single language, and the word ‘Prakrit’ collectively refers to Middle Indic languages. If a source (Turner in this case) mentions a word in Prakrit without specifying the lect (Ardhamāgadhī, Mahārāṣṭrī, Śaurasenī, etc), would it be fair to say that the word exists in all lects with identical forms each worthy of its own Wiktionary entry? Or would more research or judgement be necessary to say which lects have the word and in what form as you did when you said ‘I think Turner only gives Maharashtri Prakrit [in this case]’? And in this case it appears Turner gives a feminine version of the first word with the ending °ḍī f. and two additional masculine words maṁkaḍa -- , °kaṇa -- m. Would all of these words be worthy of their own Wiktionary entries?

With regard to script, there appears to be a convention for which script to be used for each language on Wiktionary. For example, the consensus in a section on your talk page [10] is that Prakrit lects should be in the Brahmi script and Pali should be in the Latin script with the Template:pi-alt being a nice way to show the alternate scripts. According to Wikipedia, Konkani can be written in various scripts and it appears all Konkani lemmas on Wiktionary are in the Devanagari script. Marathi used to be written in the Mōḍī script and Mōḍī script is now in Unicode so should Old Marathi lemmas on Wiktionary be in the Modi script? Or not since there are few Modi Unicode fonts?

Is there no such thing as a Mahārāṣṭrī Apabhraṃśa (or Ardhamāgadhī Apabhraṃśa) just like Gurjar Apabhramsa (Category:Gurjar_Apabhramsa_language) and Sauraseni Apabhramsa (Category:Sauraseni_Apabhramsa_language)? Kutchkutch (talk) 00:05, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

@Kutchkutch: The consensus here is to treat Prakrit as a class of middle Middle-Indo-Aryan languages (the old MIA languages are Pali, the younger MIA languages are Apabhramsas). So there is a CAT:Sauraseni Prakrit language, CAT:Ardhamagadhi Prakrit language, etc. I have suggested merging them because of how regular they are in spelling differences, and the fact that they were pretty much mutually intelligible (many medieval Indian plays used different Prakrit lects for different characters), but User:DerekWinters disagreed (he too knows quite a bit about Prakrit).

By Turner using Maharashtri Prakrit, I mean he usually gives the standard Maharashtri Prakrit spelling, e.g. I've noticed for verbs he always drops consonants in the ending, e.g for भवति "to become" he gives Prakrit bhavaï, where the spelling for Sauraseni is bhodi.

All those words do merit an entry as alternative spellings if they pass WT:CFI, basically there should be at least 3 durable citations (if it's obvious that a word is citable, you don't actually need to provide the citations).

Old Marathi could be given in the Modi script, but since there is such patchy Unicode support idk if that would be a good idea. Same for Prakrit, I'd rather have it use the Latin script (like Pali) or Devanagari so people can actually search for the entries. But, our support for Prakrit in etymologies is already pretty good with Brahmi. Finally, I'm not sure about Apabhramsa for Marathi, but since Old Marathi is like early 1000's to 1400ish, and Prakrit is like 100 BC to 500 CE, perhaps there is a Marathi Apabhramsa. —Aryaman ^{(मुझसे बात करो)} 00:40, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

कसे आहात? इकडे मराठी बोलणारांची उणीव आहे। भेटून आनंद झाला। -- mādhavpaṇḍit (talk) 07:01, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

धन्यवाद! उणीव खरंच आहे। मला पण भेटून आनंद झाला। Kutchkutch (talk) 21:38, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

^मैं यह बिल्कुल नहीं समझा... मैंने एक मराठी शब्दावली ढूंढ डाली है, [11], क्या आप इन मूलभूत शब्द को add कर सकते हैं? धन्यबाद —Aryaman ^{(मुझसे बात करो)} 01:00, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

इस निवेदन के लिए बहुत धन्यवाद! अब तक मैंने इतना बड़ा काम नहीं किया और थोड़ा समय लगेगा लेकिन कोशिश तो ज़रूर करूंगा!

Even though I’ve been learning Hindi for many many years and perfectly understood what you’ve written, I don’t consider myself completely fluent in it yet but it’s probably good enough for English Wiktionary but maybe not for Hindi Wikipedia [12] :-)

I’ve noticed (as you must have too) that some of the words on that list are English words transliterated/borrowed into Devanagari/Marathi. Furthermore, some of those words must already have entries as Hindi and other languages even if the Marathi entry may not exist yet. Kutchkutch (talk) 08:46, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

हिंदी विकिपीडिया पर सिर्फ़ शुद्ध हिंदी का इस्तेमाल करते हैं, जो वैसे बहुत कम सुनी जाती है। मैं भी वहां उतना edit नहीं करता… मुझे हिंदी आती है, संस्कृत नहीं! English borrowings are fair game still, see CAT:Hindi terms borrowed from English (but they can wait for now, since they're very simple to translate). We're in serious need of Marathi lemmas, thank you so much for your contributions! —Aryaman ^{(मुझसे बात करो)} 10:23, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

Babel

You should add {{Babel}} to your userpage btw, maybe {{Babel|mr|en-4|hi-4}}?

—Aryaman ^{(मुझसे बात करो)} 01:07, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Also, I found another great resource : [13], It has 27,000 Marathi example sentences! —Aryaman ^{(मुझसे बात करो)} 01:18, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion and the link! Kutchkutch (talk) 01:23, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

@AryamanA Do you know if the example sentences at [14] and Tatoeba can be used in their entirety or in a modified way without mentioning the source? Some example sentences have audio files and the author for the Marathi audio files has stated that Tatoeba needs to be attributed if the audio files are used, but there is perhaps no need to mention the source if only the text is used with some possible modifications. Kutchkutch (talk) 03:21, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Their licence requires attribution to be provided. —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 11:40, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

@AryamanA: Ok thanks for answering! I was just looking for a place to look for inspiration, if it's too complicated to properly attribute Tatoeba perhaps it shouldn't be used yet. Creativity is not as easy as I thought. Sometimes I write a usage example and then think it's not very effective in showing the word's meaning.

Also, when should {{uxi}} be used instead of {{ux}}? Should it be used when a usage example is too short to occupy several lines? I was also wondering why {{hi-usex}} is is used for Hindi instead of the default {{ux}} or {{uxi}}. Is {{hi-usex}} customised in some way or is it simply a shortcut for {{ux|hi|यह एक उदाहरण है।}}? Kutchkutch (talk) 22:03, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

@Kutchkutch: Right now, it automatically makes it inline ({{uxi}}) for short examples, and it highlights the word to make it more visible. Otherwise, it is pretty much the same as {{ux}}/{{uxi}}. And yes, {{uxi}} is for short phrases or sentences usually, but I've noticed some languages like Greek only use {{uxi}}, for stylistic reasons. —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 22:49, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Hello..

Hello.. Happy to see fellow Indian on Wiktionay. Just curiously land here knowing that Kutch is a region in Gujarat state of India. So I found your name interesting. Regards,--Nizil Shah (talk) 06:54, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

@Nizil Shah Thanks for saying hello and it's nice to meet you! You are correct about my username; it does refer to the Kutch region of Gujarat. Using this region for my username was a random choice. Unfortunately, I do not know much about Kutch or its language other than what can be found at Wikipedia. I see on your talk page that you have posted some links about the Kutchi language in a discussion with User:DerekWinters.

I can see that User:DerekWinters and you are both Gujarati-language editors. I have not had the chance to interact with User:DerekWinters yet.

I have a Gujarati-related question that I wanted to ask you (or User:DerekWinters if I ever get the chance to interact with him). I wanted to add 'અમદાવાદ, વડોદરા, સુરત, રાજકોટ અને મુંબઈથી પ્રગટ થતું દૈનિક.' as a usage example for the entry અને. I was unsure what the words 'પ્રગટ' and 'થતું' mean so I decided to remove the usage example. Is the correct translation of that Gujarati phrase 'Presented daily from Ahmedabad, Vadodara, Surat, Rajkot and Mumbai'? If you can confirm this translation I might consider re-adding this usage example to the the entry અને. Kutchkutch (talk) 01:25, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

'પ્રગટ થતું' mean 'published' here. That translation was incorrect. The correct translation: 'A daily published from Ahmedabad, Vadodara, Surat, Rajkot and Mumbai'. Such tag is used on the top of newspapers/dailies. Feel free to ask whenever you have any question regarding Gujarati. I am native Gujarati speaker.

Kutch is a wonderful place to live or visit, I can say. I can understand Kutchi partially but could not read it if written in Sindhi script. Regards,--Nizil Shah (talk) 11:46, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

@Nizil Shah:Thanks! As you pointed out, I saw that phrase on the top of the front pages of Gujarati newspapers.

All the Kutchi words in Category:Kachchi lemmas appear to be in the Gujarati script so far. Although the Sindhi Perso-Arabic script has similarities with the Urdu script, it appears to have a letter corresponding to almost every Devanagari letter, which Urdu does not have. Wikipedia's language family tree suggests that Kutchi is closer to Sindhi than Gujarati, but below it says 'Kutchi is often thought to be a mixture of Sindhi, Gujarati, and Rajasthani'. Kutchkutch (talk) 05:09, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

@Kutchkutch:, Kutch has been part of Gujarat since its foundation in 1960. Gujarati is a primary language taught across all schools in Gujarat (except large number of English Medium schools where it is taught as a secondary language). As far as I know, no school in Kutch teach Kutchi language. Kutchi is written in Sindhi and Gujarati scripts as it has not single standard Kutchi script. As there is not much support for Sindhi script, most writers prefers Gujarati script. You are right that Sindhi script has corresponding letter for Devnagari script. It is somewhat similar to the case of Western and Eastern Punjabi: similar language but different scripts due to international borders. Kutchi origin people living is Pakistan uses Sindhi script while living Kutchi people in Kutch, Gujarat, India uses Gujarati script. Same applies to Sindhi language too: Sindhi living in India uses Devnagari/Gujarati script while Sindhis living in Pakistan uses Sindhi script. Sorry for very late reply. I had missed this conversation. @DerekWinters, pinging you for inputs on "technical" linguistic knowledge which I have none.--Nizil Shah (talk) 06:15, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

love button

Hello. I'm amazed that there are so many words for "clitoris" in Marathi (see the translation table there). Do you vouch for all of them? And would you mind creating the most common? Thank you! --Barytonesis (talk) 20:25, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

@Barytonesis: Yes, it is a bit unusual that there's so many words listed there! I think what happened was there was a user on Marathi Wikipedia that made a glossary of English to Marathi terms related to female anatomy [15] and transferred those translations to Wiktionary. The reason for making such a list might be because since it's a taboo topic many resources such as dictionaries don't even mention them. (In that discussion, one user even suggested it's not suitable to include such topics on Marathi Wikipedia). Those words look like real words. Most of those words could be Sanskrit borrowings and compounds, and since they're not in dictionaries it could be hard to find information about them. Kutchkutch (talk) 22:12, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Dardic

Hey Kutchkutch, I just wanted to mention that Dardic is a descendant of Proto-Indo-Aryan, not Sanskrit. Also, when you add {{desc|inc-dar-pro}}, please don't null it out with |2=-, so we can see which entries need reconstructions. Thank and keep up the good work! --Victar (talk) 05:10, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

@Victar: I remember reading in some paper that scholars do not consider that all "Dardic" languages to have descended from a single, "Proto-Dardic" language. This is why in spite of so many scholarly articles on Dardic languages, a Proto-Dardic language has not been reconstructed. These "Dardic" languages are instead clusters of groups of languages with similarities existing within the groups and not Dardic as a whole. So Kalasha and Khowar are from one group whereas Torwali and Shina are from the other. This is why I used to earlier null out the Proto Dardic level while listing the descendants and now I don't list it at all. In Kalasha there are some words that originate from Classical Sanskrit times. And nowhere in Kalasha has a linguistic feature been found which was lost in Sanskrit and is reminiscent of Proto-Indo-Aryan. Lastly, I have not seen Kutchkutch dabble in Dardic -- what's this about? -- माधवपंडित (talk) 08:35, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

@माधवपंडित: This probably isn't the right place for a whole conversation on the legitimacy of Proto-Dardic, but regardless of whether some entries are borrowed, influenced by, or straight-out descended from Sanskrit, I think we can both agree (along with publications on the subject) that Proto-Dardic does not belong below Sanskrit. I brought this up with Kutchkutch because he was adding {{desc|inc-dar-pro}} below {{desc|sa}} in trees. --Victar (talk) 14:47, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

@Victar: I though Proto-Dardic was a descendant of Vedic Sanskrit... —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 16:39, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

Nope. Some even think it might have been more closely related to Nuristani, but that's probably just due to areal influence. See {{R:iir-nur:Blažek:2010}}. --Victar (talk) 16:52, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

@Victar: There is something seriously wrong with their divergence dates within Indo-Aryan. They claim Hindi and Punjabi diverged in 1650 CE, but Old Punjabi and Old Hindi had distinct literary traditions by 1300 CE. Their divergence date for Sinhala is 650 BCE (!!) is even before the existence of Pali and the dramatic Prakrits, obviously incorrect; Old Sinhala began in 200 CE. They classify Nepali, Marathi, Gujarati, and Sindhi in a single subfamily ("Northwest Indo-Aryan")... that's so clearly wrong. I'll read the rest, but I have serious doubts about the paper. —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 02:36, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

@AryamanA: I don't want to get into a whole discussion on this user talk page, but the paper gives the placement of Dardic is other publications as well (which I why I referenced it specifically), all not below Sanskrit. Here is a chart from Encyclopædia Iranica, so it's a pretty mainstream opinion. --Victar (talk) 02:46, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

@Victar: As @माधवपंडित: mentioned, I don't recall any recent dabbling in Dardic (maybe it was a while ago?), but thanks for all the suggestions and the information. I'll keep it in mind if I dabble in Dardic. Kutchkutch (talk) 05:32, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

म्हणणे (mhaṇṇe)

Are म्हणून (mhaṇūn) and म्हणजे (mhaṇje) the same? —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 22:15, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

@AryamanA: They could be similar in certain cases since they're both derived from the same verb, but they are not the same. म्हणून (mhaṇūn) can be synchronically analysed as म्हणणे (mhaṇṇe) + the completive aspect ऊन (compare conjunctive Hindi कहकर/कहके (kahkar/kahke)). म्हणजे (mhaṇje) is an archaic passive inflection (Old Marathi म्हणिजे (mhaṇije)). From those literal meanings they acquired figurative meanings such as:

Causal म्हणून: [clause X] म्हणून [clause Y]

[clause X] → [clause Y]

Dhongde & Wali conjunction example:

[माझ्याकडे पैसे नव्हते] म्हणून [मी चालत आलो].

[mājhyākḍe paise navhate] mhaṇūn [mī cālat ālo].

[I had no money] so [I came walking].

Emphatic negation म्हणून: "Preceded by an interrogative pronoun it expresses a strong negation"

Dhongde & Wali example: मी काय म्हणून जाईन ― mī kāy mhaṇūn j̈āīn ― I am not going to go at all. (literally, “Why should I go?”)

Named/Called म्हणून: Preceded by a noun

इसाक म्हणून आब्राहमाचा पुत्र होता.

isāk mhaṇūn ābrāhmāċā putra hotā.

There was a son of Abraham named/called Isaac.

Equality म्हणजे: X म्हणजे Y

X = Y [जल] म्हणजे [पाणी]. ― [jal] mhaṇje [pāṇī]. ― [जल] means [पाणी].

Conditional म्हणजे: [clause X] म्हणजे [clause Y]

[clause X] → [clause Y]

[तुम्ही बोलला] म्हणजे [माझं कार्य होईल].

[tumhī bollā] mhaṇje [mājha kārya hoīl].

[Should you speak], then indeed [my work will be done].

Causal म्हणून and Conditional म्हणजे appear to be similar. However, [clause X] in Conditional म्हणजे assumes a fact whereas [clause X] in Causal म्हणून states a fact. Kutchkutch (talk) 05:31, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

@Kutchkutch: Thank you so much! I've started using this Hindi-Marathi textbook to learn a bit more now. —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 15:04, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

@AryamanA: Ideally this information would be in the entries in the usual entry layout and with any Dhongde & Wali "copyrighted" material rewritten.

I've already discovered [16], and it's been useful. Perhaps [17] is comparable to this list. Since there's so few Oriya lemmas perhaps [18] could be useful for creating a few. Kutchkutch (talk) 08:13, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

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Acknowledging my (multiple) errors

Thanks for fixing the pronunciation at the Konkani entries! I don't know what I was thinking when I mistakenly entered kn-IPA in place of kok-IPA. And then the mistake was carried forward when I used copy-paste for other Konkani entries. Thanks again and sorry for the trouble. -- Bhagadatta (talk) 03:17, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

@Bhagadatta: Even I make such errors, and many of them are later corrected by you. Copy-pasting without a detailed scrutiny is probably why they happen. In this case, there were a few Konkani terms in CAT:Kannada terms with IPA pronunciation.

Since there's no senses related to cooking at RC:Proto-Indo-European/lendʰ-, should |id=to cook be added to {{PIE root|kok|lendʰ}} at रांद्चे (rāndce) and the other cognates? Kutchkutch (talk) 08:15, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

Oh yes, it's always better to do that with homonymous roots in PIE. -- Bhagadatta (talk) 09:30, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

User:शब्दशोधक

A hello from me + Sanskrit etymologies reconstruction

@Kutchkutch: Hello! I hope you don't mind if I add this topic on your talk page. I want to ask how much of Proto-Indo-Aryan Iranian and European do you know? Because I create a lot of Sanskrit entries but I don't know about their etymologies at all. So do you know about them and if you do, can I leave a ping for you in the edit summary so you can add it? Nice to meet you, शब्दशोधक (talk) 11:32, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

@शब्दशोधक: Hello, and nice to meet you as well! I'm not familiar enough with Proto-Indo-Aryan (PIA), Proto-Indo-Iranian (PII) and Proto-Indo-European (PIE) (yet) to add Sanskrit etymologies, so you would always have to ask for favours from other users such as User:Bhagadatta, User:AryamanA, User:Victar, etc. User:Bhagadatta has been giving you good advice and resources on PIA, PII and PIE. If you eventually want learn how to add Sanskrit etymologies and reconstruct those languages on your own, it would require spending some time to study those resources. If you're motivated enough, hopefully you'll become more knowledgeable about PIA, PII and PIE and contribute what you learn. Kutchkutch (talk) 12:19, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

@शब्दशोधक: Etymology for धन (dhana) coming real soon! -- Bhagadatta^(talk) 12:45, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

@Bhagadatta: Thanks for responding to my ping requesting for the etymology of धन (dhána). On internet, there are many resources for PIE reconstruction and the 2 dictionaries you mentioned are also great. But yeah, for now it seems really complicated to me. I get the point of what you advised me to not go dive into etymologies for now. Maybe, first we should have all Sanskrit words here (or aim to) and then go on to “Proto-” languages. शब्दशोधक (talk) 13:13, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

@Kutchkutch: I want to know how much Sanskrit do you know as there is no Sanskrit on your Babel but you have made many edits to Sanskrit entries as I see in your contributions. शब्दशोधक (talk) 13:25, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

@शब्दशोधक Contributions, communication and collaboration are much better indicators of knowledge compared to Babel boxes. If it helps, I could add sa-1.

@Bhagadatta Thanks for letting us know! It will be very interesting to see the etymology that you put there. If you can improve and/or correct the following, it would help both User:शब्दशोधक and I.

I'm also interested in learning PIA, PII and PIE as well but learning about them requires a different approach. Although there's many resources available learning for PIE, many of primary sources such as IEW (Pokorny), LIV (Rix), etc. are all in German. While there are resources for PII, they're much fewer in number, and resources that focus on PIA are very hard to find. Thus, one could probably learn about PIE and avoid Wiktionary entirely, but searching for information about PIA inevitably leads to Wiktionary. Reconstructed languages focus on phonology and morphology rather than syntax and semantics.

Learning about PIE would require a basic understanding of language families such as Italic, Celtic, Germanic, Balto-Slavic and Greek. PIE resources generally provide overviews of all these language families. The most important attested languages out of these language are Greek and Latin. Certain users can reconstruct Proto-Germanic and Proto-Balto-Slavic at an alarmingly fast speed.

When there are varying standards for notation, the About pages clarify which notation Wiktionary uses (such as *y and *w for *i̯ and *u̯). Although the focus of WT:About Proto-Indo-Aryan is notation, it's much more useful compared to Proto-Indo-Aryan language (the Wikipedia page was created by User:AryamanA with an inventory of consonants that was later removed by User:Rua).

Sometimes, there's multiple reconstructions possible for a single word depending on the time estimate, geographic estimate and the acceptance of various phenomena. For Indo-Iranian, some important phenomena appear to be Laryngeal theory, Grassmann's law, Pinault's law, Ruki sound law, Bartholomae's law, Brugmann's law and thorn clusters. User:Victar/Reflexes/Proto-Indo-Iranian, User:Bhagadatta/Rigveda in Proto-Indo-Aryan and Proto-Indo-Iranian, User:Bhagadatta/Indo-Iranian Vocabulary Innovations and User:Rua/Beowulf in Proto-Germanic are useful guides.

Learning about PII would require a basic understanding of Old Iranian languages along with Sanskrit. A important aspect to remember when learning about Old Iranian languages is that there's more than one. The most attested Old Iranian languages are Avestan and Old Persian. Avestan is religious, while Old Persian is inscriptional. When Old Iranian languages are not sufficient for reconstructing PII, one may need to consider Middle Iranian (RC:Proto-Indo-Iranian/dʰr̥ždʰás) and Modern Iranian languages. Kutchkutch (talk) 13:17, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

@Kutchkutch: True! Now that you’ve already told me that your Sanskrit is sa-1, it won’t help me, but still it will help any other editor who doesn’t know this, so still consider adding it. शब्दशोधक (talk) 13:24, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

@Kutchkutch, शब्दशोधक:  Done. Also found quotations from the Rigveda for the two (slightly different) meanings. -- Bhagadatta^(talk) 16:23, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

@Bhagadatta: Thanks a lot!! शब्दशोधक (talk) 16:28, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Sanskrit references

@Bhagadatta, Kutchkutch: I saw that you replaced {{R:MW}} with <references /> on the entry धन (dhána) and {{R:MW}} was already their with accurate page also. When I tried the same on समय (samayá), it didn’t happen as I thought and I had to revert that edit. Can any of you explain this? Thanks! शब्दशोधक (talk) 06:34, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

@शब्दशोधक: If {{R:MW}} is in the body of the entry as an WP:Inline citation, then <references /> is placed in the references section (see Help:Footnotes). I don't know what the significance of the space is since deleting it doesn't make any difference.

For attested terms, inline citations are a way of pointing out something unusual that is mentioned in the academic literature. However, for reconstructed terms, inline citations are required (see WT:Reconstructed_terms#References_from_etymologies).

Nobody explained any of this to me, so I learned about this from observing other users (such as User:AryamanA at कच्चा (kaccā)). Kutchkutch (talk) 08:29, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

@Kutchkutch: Thanks for explaining :). So I get it that I have to always add {{R:MW}} because I am not at all familiar with quotations and citations so I never use it, which means I have to add {{R:MW|000}} with appropriate page number. Regards, शब्दशोधक (talk) 09:28, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

By the way I have added sa-1 to your Babel and I have changed Wikipedia to Wiktionary. If you have any problem feel free to revert. Also I have used {{#babel:}} instead of {{User sa-1}}. Hope you don’t mind :) शब्दशोधक (talk) 09:35, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

So yeah, as Kutchkutch said, it's an inline reference which I used because I wanted to cite the MW dictionary for a specific part of the entry (in this case, the part of the etymology which claims that धन (dhana) literally means a running race) and not for the entry as a whole. In most cases, there's no need to inline it and you can put {{R:sa:MW}} in the usual manner. I don't know the reason for the space in the tag either; I picked up the habit from copying pre-existing PIE entries which had it that way. -- Bhagadatta^(talk) 11:26, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

@Bhagadatta, Kutchkutch: All right, my doubt is clear. Thank you very much both of you. And great to meet you, Kutchkutch, you are really patient explaining me all this. शब्दशोधक (talk) 13:12, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

Adminship

Hi,

I have nominated you for adminship. If you accept the nomination, please edit the acceptance section. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 06:07, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

@Atitarev Thanks for nominating both User:Bhagadatta and I! I've accepted your nomination. I'm really sorry about the late response. Regardless of exactly who and when it occurs, I definitely agree that there should more admins familiar with South Asian languages. Kutchkutch (talk) 13:10, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for the Nomination

Hi! Just wanted to thank you for nominating me for the Autopatroller perms. It's the first time I've been given additional user group rights :) Also just out of curiosity, was that because of my edits on مسیت, where I kept getting warnings before publishing the edits?

-Taimoor Ahmed^{(گل بات؟)} 22:20, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

@Taimoorahmed11: Although there's always room for improvement in specific instances (as with any user or entry), as a whole, your editing has been good and has been occurring regularly, so keep up the good work. User_talk:Metaknowledge#زمین_اور_آسمان should serve as reminder that widespread changes such as introducing a new romanisation system should be discussed first. If the spelling of an entry is to be corrected and the previous spelling is not desired such as from گانو to گاؤں, it would help if the page is moved rather than creating a new entry to preserve the edit history as explained here: w:Help:How to move a page. Kutchkutch (talk) 09:07, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

@Kutchkutch: I realised that I definitely shouldn't have made changes to the transliteration method without discussion, it was pretty ignorant of me in hindsight, I admit. When it comes to renaming pages, I didn't know it was preferred to just move pages, I didn't do that with گاؤں, just because I've never seen it written as گانو. Although, I will bear that in mind next time, so that the history can be preserved. Also, if let's say, I had moved the page rather than requesting a deletion and creating a new page, and a separate page was required for the word گانو, would it simply be a case of removing the redirect?
-Taimoor Ahmed^{(گل بات؟)} 10:04, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

@Taimoorahmed11: If a a separate page had been required for گانو, and a soft redirect is needed that lets a reader know why there is a redirect, then see Wiktionary:Redirections and the templates listed at Category:Form-of templates. For example:

If the soft redirect is a common misspelling that meets Wiktionary:Misspellings, then {{misspelling of}} could be used

If the soft redirect is an alternative form that is not a common misspelling, then {{alternative form of}} could be used

If the etymology and references are the same as the primary entry, then the entry could look like:

उदहारण for a common misspelling

उस्मान for an alternative form

with only the headword(s), definition line(s) and possibly declension. And always remember to use w:Help:Show preview to minimise minor errors from showing up the w:Help:Page history. Kutchkutch (talk) 10:38, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

@Kutchkutch: Noted, thank you!
-Taimoor Ahmed^{(گل بات؟)} 12:51, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

MB entries

Hey, you need not mass-create Middle Bengali entries. I shall sooner or later be creating a module for Old & Middle Bengali pronunciations; if you go on creating entries like this then I would have a tough time manually adding the IPA in all entries (because the templets would need a parameter). Thank you. ·~ dictátor·mundꟾ 10:05, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Inqilābī I'm surprised that you have perceived these entries to be mass-created because I felt that they were created at a very leisurely pace. Thanks for sharing that you plan to create pronunciation modules for Old and Middle Bengali.

From my experience with working on the phonological details of MOD:mr-IPA in collaboration with AryamanA, the entry creation and deployment of a pronunciation module even with manual intervention do not need necessarily have to be simultaneous especially since entry creation is a higher priority even if the pronunciation module is not on every applicable entry. (There are only 791 instances of T:mr-IPA out of 1,878 lemmas with some manual intervention).

There are currently 30 lemmas in Category:Middle Bengali lemmas.

Even if a handful are created every few days, would it really be a lot of work to maintain them?

Would it be possible for you to provide some of the phonological details that would be used for the testcases? Kutchkutch (talk) 16:27, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Page parameter

Hi. Just wanted to tell you that it’s unnecessary to add the page no. to a reference templet when there’s already a link to the reference entry. As far as I remember, @Bhagadatta also does not add it in such cases. And why this is unneeded, is simply due to the fact that the reader is already directed to the entry where the information is provided, it’s not worthwhile to lead the reader to the whole page, is it? ;) And more importantly, I do not think a reference templet is supposed to have multiple links (not counting a WP link), anyway. Have a good day. ·~ dictátor·mundꟾ 13:32, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

@Inqilābī: Some reasons for having both the entry link and page link could include:

1. The entry link doesn't work or the output of the link may vary by device, operating system or IP address
2. Entries before and after the primary entry may be of relevance
3. If links are digitised versions of physical books, a reader with a hard copy or scanned copy that was used to create the digitised versions could use the page number to look up the entry in the physical book.

Does it actually say 'a reference templet is not supposed to have multiple links' on a page such as Wiktionary:Reference templates? Kutchkutch (talk) 17:07, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

@Sgconlaw: Since you are the master of templates, I would like to ask one thing: is it a good idea to have multiple links to a single reference, as in the Turner reference at राजपुत्र? ·~ dictátor·mundꟾ 13:43, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

block please

Hi there! I'm Wonderfool (talk • contribs), everyone's favourite vandal. It's time to get rid of this account and get a ew new ones Wubble You (talk) 12:45, 29 August 2021 (UTC)