User talk:EncycloPetey/Archive 2

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The term 'cataphile' refers to explorers of the Paris catacombs, specifically, and not explorers of other catacombs (if such explorers exist). For more info check out the wikipedia entry on the Paris catacombs, on cataphiles (in either French or English), and/or do a google search.

I did, and found this link [1] regarding a cataphile in Ukraine. --EncycloPetey 09:53, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
The Diggers are a group of urban explorers based in Russia. They are not cataphiles. The website seems to be the blog of a French cataphile (i.e. who once explored the catacombs of Paris) now doing urban exploration in the Ukraine. I maintain that even if he is using this term to refer to explorers of caves, catacombs, etc. in the Ukraine, this in incorrect. I have never heard the word cataphile used (in the time I've spent as an urban explorer and cataphile) to apply to anyone other than the explorers of the Paris catacombs. You can check out: [2] or [3] or [4]. [5] also has some info.
I will put this conversation on the entry's talk page then. --EncycloPetey 12:23, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Also, though I am still not in agreement with you, I think a better compromise would be something closer to the French definition, which says (my probably inexact translation...):
1. An individual who secretly visits the ancient mines/catacombs beneath Paris.
2. (by extension) Any individual who visits underground mines/catacombs

That sounds reasonable to me. --EncycloPetey 09:45, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Chinese months

China operates under two calendars, the traditional and the Chinese calendar. I take it you would want all of them? BD2412 T 01:48, 1 May 2006 (UTC) --Yes. It might be worth creating an Appendix similar to the one for Months of the Islamic Year. --EncycloPetey 09:47, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


I'm not sure about elsewhere, but in the US, the term "low-fat" is defined by US law to restrict fat content to a specified percentage. I cannot recall, but I think the cutoff is 2%. --EncycloPetey 14:10, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I added a wikipedia link. Wikipedia says 3 grams per serving. JillianE 16:24, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


Hi. Haywire isn't being used adverbally in that second def, it's still an adjective. It doesn't qualify the verb ‘went’ but the the subject of the sentance. This is because the phrase turns on a colloquial use of ‘go’ = ‘become’. Widsith 08:23, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. --EncycloPetey 08:32, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Units of time

Do you think it worthwhile adding fortnight, century, millennium, era etc? SemperBlotto 12:44, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

FYI, Japanese is done. Rodasmith 06:26, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


Congratulations, you have now been made an administrator. I hope you enjoy your new privileges. Welcome aboard! — Paul G 15:29, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

So you can stop bugging us to delete things now! --Dangherous 15:35, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
That was quick! Congrats! —Vildricianus 17:04, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
Congrats on your sysopship! --Dijan 18:53, 4 May 2006 (UTC)


Are the recycled pages now convenient? —Vildricianus 17:16, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

The headers do make them more convenient, yes. I do wonder about the formatting, though. The current format has three different edit links, which could be a bit confusing. When I start working on June selections, I'll have a better sense for the current utility. --EncycloPetey 02:29, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Units of time

Hey, no problem! It's what we do here.  :) --Dijan 18:52, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

reply re user dmol.

Hi, thanks for comment. Sorry if this message is in the wrong place but I'm not sure how to reply correctly. Re my wikipedia details, I was first on wiktionary and then started wikipedia, but now i am back to the dictionary again. I must get my user details set up there, but as usual time is the main problem.


I can't find a definition for this. Maybe it's US only. I'll leave it to you. SemperBlotto 10:58, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


maybe you havnt heard it cuz of your scene and age group or where u live. its highly used in oakland richmoind hayward vallejo and bayview


there is no right or wrong way to write egyptian arabic, i am just writing the way you pronounce the words. but you have a point i could use the arabic script as well.

Corsinia coriandrina

Stephan H. von Reuß Department of Organic Chemistry University of Hamburg Martin-Luther-King-Platz 6 D-20146 Hamburg, Germany E-mail:

Dear Mr. B. R. Speer

I'm a Ph. D. chemistry student at the University of Hamburg, Germany, working on natural products from liverworts. I recently discovered your photograph of Corsinia coriandrina from Texas, and that's exactly the species I'm working with. The whole family is very interresting from a botanical point of view, but the phytochemistry is even more exciting. Until now I have investigated only European plant material and have desperately tried to gain access to Americal samples. That's why I would like to ask if you can help me by providing samples of C. coriandrina from Texas ?

With kindest regards, Yours Stephan

Sorry, but if you read my user page, you should have noticed that I no longer live in Texas. --EncycloPetey 13:42, 7 May 2006 (UTC)


Tricky word. Isn't ‘young’ the same as sense 1, recently made or created? Also sense 11 is the same as sense 9. Widsith 16:36, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

No to both. The definition of "young" refers to age in a sense that isn't quite carried by def 1. No one would talk about a "newborn album" or a "young scratch". It's a subtle difference, yes, but it's one that's carried in the original Latin. As for 9 & 11, there's a very big difference that may not be worded as well as it should -- I can see why you think they're the same. Look at the sample sentences to see that these are not the same. An idea can be new in the sense of unfamiliar, but a person would be new in the sense of inexperienced. An idea cannot be inexperienced. --EncycloPetey 16:47, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, maybe it's the example sentences that are wrong. 9 has you're new at this business, 11 has I'm new at this job. Perhaps the distinction is that 9 refers to an experience, 11 to someone having the experience, in which case that sentence from 9 should go to 11. But then again perhaps 11 is really no different from sense 10! As for young, I'm still not convinced: you wouldn't say ‘he's new’ about someone if they were young. And the example sentence is not entirely convincing, because it could fit equally well under sense 3. I've been staring at this for so long now the word hardly makes sense to me anymore! Widsith 16:58, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

I spent almost two hours with this yesterday, till my eyes swam. The "new baby" can't go under sense 3, because that's an adjective of comparison. In that sense, there must be a former one to compare to, which isn't the case for a "new baby". However, you're right about the "I'm new at this business" being misplaced. There were so many edits that needed to be made to the page when I started that I obviously missed that one. --EncycloPetey 17:02, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

What I mean is, the sentence could indicate ‘she has a new (additional) baby, on top of the 2 others she's had in the past’. But it's hard to think of how to word it to remove that ambiguity. Widsith 17:08, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

how about now? --EncycloPetey 17:12, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Ha ha! Nice solution! Widsith 17:24, 7 May 2006 (UTC)


Thank you so much for your comments on "Normalization." Please take my responses with a grain of salt: nothing I am saying on that page (of all places) should be misunderstood as criticism...rather, I am just trying to get to the bottom of thorny technical issues. To do so, I am trying to be candid, but please don't misinterpret that. I am grateful that you took the time to respond there.

--Connel MacKenzie T C 17:58, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

And I'm very glad to see someone taking the initiative to head this discussion. --EncycloPetey 17:59, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your message about the new upa definition

Thanks for your recent comment regarding the new upa definition. A followup comment/ reply to your comment has been posted at my discussion page.

-Scottperry 20:12, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

IPA /r/

I noticed you used /ɹ/ for the pronunciation of replete. I have changed it to /r/. Personally I agree with you, and I wish we were using /ɹ/ which is more accurate, but there was a long discussion about it here, and I was overruled. So, we should try and fit in with the standard I suppose. Widsith 07:53, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm, I dislike the fact that the discussion completely omitted mention of trilled-R. This is emphasized as "the difference" between English and Spaniah or Latin in the language books and classes I've experienced. It's a shame to lose that distinction here. --EncycloPetey 19:00, 15 May 2006 (UTC)


Hi EncycloPetey! I'm having a little bit of trouble with Bosnian months (more like with other speakers of Bosnian). The problem is that Bosnian language does not have a universally (by government) adopted standard. It follows the old Serbo-Croatian standard and the government also includes Serbian and Croatian text along with Bosnian on all government papers. The problem that I'm having with other Bosnian speakers is that there is a recently published book called (in translation) "Orthography of Bosnian language" and that book is being utilized unofficially by some Bosnians and is claimed by them to be "official". The "orthography" of this book is forcefully considered as the standard on the Bosnian Wikipedia. Many Bosnian speakers do not speak this way at all. Their only referece to this standarization is that one book. I, on the other hand, have found refereces such as national newspapers, magazines, private companies and others that do not follow these rules (because they are not considered official). The official website of the government does not provide any information on standardization either. Specifically, here, the problem is word for "August". They (Bosnian Wikipedians) claim that the word is "august", while I and my sources claim it is "avgust". I have reverted the same IP address about 3 times now. What do you suggest? --Dijan 11:08, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

One way to handle it is to leave a single form in the Appendix table, and list the alternate spellings on the entry for that word, with a Usage note essentially explaining just what you said here. --EncycloPetey 19:01, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Thank you. I just really wasn't sure how to do this. I'm having the same problems with interface on I'm a bureaucrat there and I translated the interface. However, many people from Bosnian Wikipedia do not agree with me and they want to have it their way. Since there is no community established at as of right now (I'm the only person that has been editing for the past couple of months), I am going by what I consider to be standard and by what I was taught in school. Anyway, thank you for your reply. --Dijan 22:10, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

WikiSaurus - compromise proposed (/more)

copied from [WT:BP]===WikiSaurus - compromise proposed (/more)=== A possible compromise between the "tough criteria for WikiSaurus", and the "Don't lose even the least valuable "synonyms". Introduce, in WikiSaurus, a xxx/more subpage for the problem pages. Cull the trash from the main page (by whatever criteria), but don't just delete it, put it in the /more page. In the main page indicate that new entries not meeting the tough criteria have to be put in the /more page, and there can be researched for verifiability, and perhaps later promoted to the main page. With this I would then suggest we might even protect the main WikiSaurus page. Admin's would then be responsible for checking the /more pages every so often to see if there are any terms that could be promoted to the main page, as they meet the criteria. Thus we would meet two purposes. The main WikiSaurus page would be kept up to our "standard" (which I have to point is very subjectively applied), whilst the /more page would capture every possible synonym, and would in effect be a specific protologism page.--Richardb 23:26, 10 May 2006 (UTC)


Hi Pete. Could you specify an e-mail address please? As an admin, you should be contactable for people who have been blocked. Cheers. —Vildricianus 15:23, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Where do I do that? Please note, though, that my e-mail is not currently all that contactable due to access issues that may last for the next month. --EncycloPetey 23:40, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
In your preferences, on the first tab. Also, don't forget to confirm the email and to check the box Enable e-mail from other users. If you can't access it right now, please remember to do so when you can, or I'll keep on bugging you :-). —Vildricianus 10:32, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Greek Questions

Hey, I’m just sending this to both of the registerd Koine Greek users. I’m interested in beefing up the selection of ancient Greek words because I have some background in it, and I love etymologies. But I have two questions that I thought maybe one of you could answer. The first is how do I put breathing marks at the beginning of words? I’ve looked and I just can’t seem to find the answer. The second question is regarding capitalization. It seems that the general rule of thumb is that only proper nouns should be capitalized and the rest lower-case. Is that what we’re doing with Greek, or is there some other standard? I’ll be watching your talk pages, so feel free to reply right here. Thanks a lot. Cerealkiller13 20:29, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Also, is there a standard concerning conjugation? For example, would it be useful to put nominative, genitive, plural, etc, forms in an article? Could we make a table with all the forms for each word? Again, thanks. Cerealkiller13 21:09, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks a whole bunch. Your answers have been most helpful. As it turns out I still had a Greek keyboard which I used in writing papers for Greek classes which works without a whole bunch of cutting and pasting and even does breathing marks and accents. If something like that would be helpful to you, let me know and I'll track down where to download it. Again, thanks. Cerealkiller13 02:18, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Protection of WOTDs

When you make the recycled wotd pages, could you protect them as well? That is, semi-protection against edits and full protection against moves. Thanks! — Vildricianus 17:06, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, good job. I think pragmatic is a perfect choice for my birthday! :-) — Vildricianus 11:09, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Good to know. I chose equipoise for mine, though it was a close race with poobah. --EncycloPetey 18:28, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Name change

Just so it doesn't catch you by surprise - cheers! BD2412 T 23:09, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Tab above

On your user page you say, "Of course, you can leave a message for me here by using my User Talk page. Just select the tab above labeled 'Discussion'." But not everyone will be using the Monobook skin on a graphical browser (non-graphical browsers display a very different page layout), so you might want to consider rephrasing those instructions. I would just drop the second sentence and link the words User Talk page to this page. - dcljr 08:49, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Paradigm templates

I'm not familiar with "paradigm templates". Could you point me to one of the entries where I changed the parameters please? Rod (A. Smith) 00:56, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh, those templates! Yes, I've been very busy with them. :-) {{en-noun}} is now the one and only template for all English nouns. It displays as a table for readers (and editors) who like tables but it displays inline for everyone else. Similarly for {{en-verb}} and for {{en-adj}}. We hope to make the table/inline setting become an option in the "preferences" pages. Until then, documentation on viewing the part of speech (a.k.a. "inflection") templates is at Template talk:en-noun etc. I'd also be happy to help you switch to the tables setting.

I proposed the new templates on WT:BP several weeks ago and received no objections, so I've recently been moving all pages to use the new templates. Is there anything specific that you have seen to be broken with the new templates? Rod (A. Smith) 01:13, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

No. I've no concerns other than knowing whether we're making a decision for a particular style/template, so that I can edit accordingly as I peruse old pages. In particular, it would be appropriate to set all the July Words of the Day to the "new" format so that users become accumstomed to it. --EncycloPetey 01:19, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
The July WOTD are so updated. There was one adverb I didn't update because I haven't yet copied {{en-adj}} to {{en-adv}}. Call me lazy. Rod (A. Smith) 02:01, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


This template will not be adequate for Latin etymologies. The problem is that the Latin entry pages (by convention) lack pronunciation macrons that are typically included in dictionaries, but the display form should include them (see Iulius for an example). There needs to be an additional slot for this display form when it is necessary, but the template musn't require the form or Bad Things are likely to happen when people neglect to include it. --EncycloPetey 00:09, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Addendum: You can see what I mean in the etymology section of ululate. --EncycloPetey 01:20, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I applied {{etymon}} to "ululate". Does that address your concern? Rod (A. Smith) 01:27, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Old Prussian

Kaīls! Oh, thanks for pointing that out! Good thing you stopped me before I put hundreds of them in like that. I'll start migrating them to miniscule now. One question - do you think the Majuscule pages should be made into 'redirect' pages, or simply deleted? Beobach972 03:45, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I'll save you the trouble of flipping through the move logs; as some of the words need to be mentioned specially, anyway. Note Līgu - this one is probably not in the automatic-move log, because it has two senses which moved manually at different times. Cīziks and Adlē are other manual ones. Riki and Gerwe can be deleted as simple misspellings. Also, if you don't mind (cf. discussion on the Grease Pit and Connel MacKenzie and I), you could go ahead and delete every entry in this category "Category:Old Prussian language tables". I've seen all the fuss over the Swedish and Finnish template rehauling, but as you, my brother, and I are the only ones on here that speak Prussian, I think we can get away with doing this the direct route. The templates need to be rehauled totally -- format, consolidation, the very names (which should probably be alot shorter) -- so you can go ahead and delete these. Anyway, here are the rest of the redirect pages, to be deleted : Tāws , Tāwas , Mātē , Gērwē , Dīmens , Līdi , Zemman , Wūla , Sunis , Rīki , Rīdā , Rettawi , Rikīs , Rettawis , Retenīks , Renti , Raps , Prālī , Plīns , Mārtjan , Madla , Damrawa , Dimstis , Dragges , Drastus , Dubnas , Dājā , Dāki , Dāngs , Dīliniks , Bilā , Dīwans , Dags , Dīlin . Beobach972 16:57, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

More WOTDs

Looking at your contribs, I assume you're pretty busy, so this is to notify you that the WOTDs are being taken care of. Dvortygirl is going to be busy as well and she asked to compile the next monthS of WOTDs ASAP. Wytukaze and me are going to do some stuff, but feel free to keep helping out if you have the time. Cheers, — Vildricianus 13:13, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

WOTD guidelines

I incorporated you suggestions into Wiktionary:Featured word candidates (comment)/guidelines. Does it look complete to you? RJFJR 13:06, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

As far as I can see, but there will undoubtedly be other points to arise. I do think it would be nice to mention something about entries being selected for their intersting (or even useful) etymologies. I have (informally) been trying to have a word on (or around) the 23rd of each month whose etymology is from a less common contributor to the English vocabulary. That is, a word derived from Norwegian, Gaelic, or Hindi -- not a word from Greek, Latin, or French, which most words in English come from. --EncycloPetey 03:04, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Filipino Months

Thanks for adding these mords. Please note that the category you've placed them in is incorrectly named. These months are not unique to the Filipino cultures. Rather they are found in the Tagalog language. The Category should be structured as Catgory:tl:Months. There are categories for "Arabic months" and "Chinese Months", but these exist because the systme for dividing months in those calendars differs from the rest of the world. By caontrast "de:Months" (where de is the code for German) lists words that are found in German and translate as the names of months. --EncycloPetey 05:50, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I understood your point. What I mean in this category is Filipino language (w:Filipino language as a different language from the w:Tagalog language) words of months. I am afraid I don't know what category name should be used for Filipino language like "tl:Months" for Tagalog. --Bluemask 06:06, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Template talk:la-noun

Pardon this (admittedly ignorant) question, but can either the genetive form or the declension pattern always be determined from the other, or more precisely, from the combination of the other and the lemma?

In any event, I believe the inflection extension I am working on can be extended just a bit to make {{la-noun}} require at least one fewer parameter: certainly the second parameter (the macron-stripped genetive, as determined from the genetive with macrons) and possibly one of either the third (genetive with macrons) or the fifth (declension pattern) parameter, depending on your answer to the above question.

Also, would you prefer to discuss this at Template talk:la-noun? (If so, it's not clear to me where on the page to put design discussion. A new section? if not, should I sign your name to the existing sections?) Rod (A. Smith) 06:00, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, you can't determine the genitive from the declension pattern. There are too many possible variations, even within a single declension. The first declension for instance has both a Latin and a Greek form, depending on the etymology. The third declension has a huge array of possible genitive forms, often with irregular stems. However, it might be reasonable to say that the declension pattern (1st through 5th) can be determined from knowing the genitive singular in most cases. There will be exceptions. In general first declension ends in -ae, second in , third in -is, fourth in -ūs, fifth in -ēī or . Notice the sort of overlap between second and fifth. Except for the oddity there are the excpetions, we might be able to dispense with inserting the declension, but it would require being able to handle odd cases where the declension can't be determined from the ending and isn't specified as an extar parameter if we choose to do it that way.
Have you looked at the various declension pages (as linked on the la-noun template talk page)? You might find them helpful for what you're doing. --EncycloPetey 06:05, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. I reviewed the declension pattern pages. From your notes above, I was most interested in the second declension pattern. Can I assume that genetive singulars of nouns using the second declension pattern cannot end in -eī or -ēī (that is, the stems cannot end in -e or )? If so, the inflection extension could easily apply the fifth pattern when the genetive parameter ends in -ēī or -eī but the second when the genetive parameter ends in -[anything other than ē or e]ī.
So, would you consider beneficial my extending the extension to allow {{la-noun}} to drop two parameters? Rod (A. Smith) 06:43, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
I'd say yes but with a proviso. There should be a means for specifying the declension when it doesn't follow the expected pattern. There are, for example, some nouns that exist only in the plural and so do not follow the usual pattern. There are also indeclinable nouns, which do not belong to any of the five declensions. There are also weirdos. If the template can have built into it the option for specifying the declension with something like:
Where the last bit is an optional parameter. The template would look for it, but if the "declen" isn't found it will use a default algorithm to determine the declension. Of course, it should also have a feature built in so that if the "declen" parameter is missing and the genitive does not follow an expected pattern, then it fails to display a declension. --EncycloPetey 03:34, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Useful shortcut

Saw your post on WikiSource. This desktop shortcut is immensely useful: --Allamakee Democrat 06:51, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Homo sapiens

Entering the error as an dic/encyc entry is bad. So, Eff you.--Allamakee Democrat 03:48, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I can be pretty nasty. Most certainly NPOV. But I am into the Western point of view; which means I'm NPOV when it comes to Muslims, Mormans, and the C of $ et al.--Allamakee Democrat 03:57, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
I have forgotten my error and insult. I'm sitting here in Waukon, in the really frozen zone for fruit trees (no snow currently), and an odd Minnesota accent among my family which is actually Newfoundland. My bro-in-law is a Newfy by accent, but his kids speak my fine North Midlands accent via my fine sister. Oh well. --Allamakee Democrat 04:12, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Pandeist, Polytheist

Cut and paste errors. Actually, Pantheist = pantheist and Pandeist = pandeist, as in pandeism, which, along with panentheism, panendeism, and polydeism is one of a bunch of new variations on the theme to come down the pike in the last century - though they're all still babies compared to pantheism and deism, each being about 300 years old. bd2412 T 05:12, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Units of Time (Armenian)

Sure, no problem! Rappo 05:24, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Past tense

Oops. I was just using one of the default templates for creating a new article. Thanks for the heads up! -PullUpYourSocks 03:23, 21 August 2006 (UTC)


Do you know something I don't? Intelligent in Spanish is inteligente... Widsith 19:39, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Oops, thanks. The double-L was my typing working faster than my brain. I've corrected the entry. --EncycloPetey 21:44, 5 September 2006 (UTC)


I would like to point out to anyone who hasn't voted yet that there are at least four votes going on at the moment that everyone has a vested interest in, 4 Checkusers, 2 Admins, 1 new logo and 1 boardmember, the more the merrier when it comes to these votes, especially the checkusers which requires 25 votes before anyone can be appointed, and the board vote which determines the course of Wikimedia! - TheDaveRoss 15:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Sounding good, already

Thanks for the heads-up and for coordinating the WOTDs for October. The audio is done for October, already, and in record time, I think. It helps that this batch was eaiser and didn't have anything too outlandish in it. Dvortygirl 06:23, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

If you can bear to have another program on your computer, you might try listening to .ogg with Winamp or Audacity (the freeware I use to record them, available here). Ogg Vorbis is the file format of choice for the wikis because, unlike mp3, the encoding algorithm comes with no strings attached. Unfortunately, it is nonstandard enough to present an obstacle for some of those who would listen. I haven't tried to play any .ogg stuff in iTunes, but I'd expect their support for it to be halfhearted, at best. When last I checked (about a year ago) iPods couldn't even play .ogg, and the reasons I recall for it cited hardware limitations, not just lack of support. Apparently, decoding .ogg takes more oomph than .mp3.
I hope they sound like me enunciating the word accurately and trying not to mumble, squeak or flub. I don't think you're missing much if you already know how to say the word, though I always welcome feedback.
Thanks for the IPA. I'm still not familiar enough to write it, but I'm learning to read it a bit. Dvortygirl 21:16, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you

Dear Petey,

Thank you for signaling your confidence in my ability to act as a CheckUser for the English Wiktionary. Your vote means a lot to me. I deeply appreciate it.

You may not be aware, but the Meta: policy dictates that there must be multiple CheckUsers on any given project, or else none will be granted. Each must get 25 votes on their local wiki, as per Meta: policy, to be granted the CheckUser privilege.

I'd like to take a moment to endorse my friends and co-runners. Each of them offers different skills that, as a whole, complement the needs of the English Wiktionary.

  1. User:Uncle G has been an English Wikipedia sysop longer than he's been an English Wiktionary sysop. This year (2006) he has refocused his efforts outside of Wiktionary. He was dragged away from Wiktionary while cleaning up the tens of thousands of entries on Wikipedia that linked incorrectly to Wiktionary after the case-sensitivity change in June 2005. He knows Wiktionary very well. And he is very competent at focusing his efforts wherever they are most needed. He operated the original Transwiki: bot, before we had the Special:Import feature we have now.
  2. User:Kipmaster is a French Wiktionnaire sysop and bot operator who is very technically capable. He also is in Europe, making his hours of availability complementary to his American counterparts. He is active in WiktionaryZ imports and understands very well which data can be imported here, from there. He normally acts as our primary liaison to fr.wiktionary, whenever compatibility issues arise.
  3. User:Jon Harald Søby is a steward. As a meta: steward, he is the primary person we call on to perform CheckUser checks now. His availability is often limited, but his Central European timezone proves to be very, very useful on occasion. He has contributed extensively to Wiktionary over the years.
  4. User:Kelly Martin was recently called in to help perform CheckUser checks on the English Wiktionary. She is currently up for election also for the Board of Trustees of Wikimedia Foundation. (In the unlikely event she wins that election, she will no longer be available to pursue her CheckUser nomination here.) Since she also has CheckUser privilege on other sister projects, she is accustomed to the 'can's and 'cannot's of CheckUser procedures, in detail.

I hope you can take a moment to consider these fine candidates again. Your support means a great deal to them, as well as to Wiktionary's ability to perform its own CheckUser checks in a timely manner.

Thank you again, for your support.

--Connel MacKenzie 06:22, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

POS headers

Nice; I was going to do the same thing last night; right down to the WT:POS shortcut.

I'm going to add several tables with some more information and comments, if you don't mind ;-) Robert Ullmann 13:03, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

As I said on Robert's talk page, thank you for spurring the progress that you have. Despite my harsh attitude with regard to how WT:BP is archived/indexed, I do appreciate your efforts. --Connel MacKenzie 17:15, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

mopping up

Be happy to, hope all the tech stuff sorts itself out. - TheDaveRoss 23:45, 19 September 2006 (UTC)


My instinct is that it is misleading to try and find a distinction in the senses. Every reference work I can find gives them together as one sense (including the OED,, Websters, Merriam-Webster, and AHD). Why do you think it's necessary or useful to separate them? Widsith 15:45, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Two reasons, there are distinct religious implications tied to the word and differences of translation. While the word thaumaturgy could legitimately be applied to both "actual" working of miracles, a distinction exists in meaning between this and "trickery" or "magic". The Wells quote I provided fits the first sense of true miracle-working to change the natural order (and is a good short story which I recommend reading anyway). Thaumaturgy could also be used to describe the actions of Moses in the Biblical account of the Egyptian plagues, or Christ in the Christian Bible. Both of these situations differ from any use of "witchcraft" or "magic" (and amny people would be offended deeply by linking the two), and so do not carry the same meaning. The sense of "witchcraft" also translates differently (as can be seen in the French already listed) from "miracle-working". When there is a separate set of translations, there is usually good cause for separating the senses in English as well. --EncycloPetey 16:57, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I appreciate your thoughtful response, but I must disagree. The reason a separate French translation has popped up is only in response to the English glosses of ‘sorcery, witchcraft’; but it is not exact to claim that these represent a separate sense of the word thaumaturgy. In fact, thaumaturgie has exactly the same range of meaning as the English word, which is to say it encompasses both ‘miracle-working’ as well as the more general ‘magic’. You would only use sorcellerie to translate specifically ‘witchcraft’ or ‘sorcery’, which is not a very good definition of thaumaturgy anyway. The religiously-minded would certainly feel upset by any claim that ‘miracle-working’ and ‘witchcraft’ are equivalent, but the point of the word thaumaturgy is that it takes in the whole range of supernatural work. To me, dividing the senses is creating difference where there is none, and somewhat comparable to adding ‘Labrador’ and ‘spaniel’ as separate senses of dog. Widsith 17:16, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

PS, I'll copy this to the talk page in case anyone else wants to weigh in in the future.. Widsith 08:04, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

To me, it sounds as though the real issue is what should be included in the definition at all. I see three possible points of inculsion: (1) "actual" working of miracles (whether historical or in a work of fiction), (2) the working of miracles through trickery, (3) withcraft and sorcery (and the negative connotations those carry). Clearly the first point is included in the definition, as we have a cite from H. G. Wells to support it. The other two are (so far) only supported by definitions in published dictionaries. I'll take a look at the OED when I have the chance, and will see what quotations they've used. I'll also hunt for additional citations that may (or may not) support inclusion of the other two points. If we can accrue enough citations, we may be able to make a clearer determination. --EncycloPetey 14:29, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Patrolled edits

Please change your Special:Preferences to mark your edits as "patrolled." Thanks! --Connel MacKenzie 22:53, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Done. Thanks! --EncycloPetey 22:54, 21 September 2006 (UTC)


I laughed when I saw this in Recent Edits, since plantigrade means "walks on the sole of the foot" and tardigrade means "walks on the toes". I imagined this meaning "walks on the kanji". --EncycloPetey 23:13, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Etymology: 漢 Han river + 字 roof (over child) + grade that which is walked upon. One who walks on water. Robert Ullmann 23:29, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Re: Icelandic translation help

Hello, I answered You there [6]. Best regards --birdy (:> )=| 22:59, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Re: Vietnamese translation help

Done. The Vietnamese months of the year aren't that exciting: these days, everyone just says "first month" through "twelfth month" or "month 1" through "month 12". The lunar calendar month names are more interesting, but I'm not sure they fit in. If you want, I can add those in too. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 23:04, 29 September 2006 (UTC)