User talk:Kephir

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Thread titleRepliesLast modified
Help with pronunciation modules214:01, 28 June 2015
Appendix:Unicode subpage links are gone/broken520:14, 25 June 2015
Module:Unicode data and Unicode 8119:00, 21 June 2015
<tt><nowiki>{{acronym-old}}</nowiki></tt>113:06, 20 May 2015
Gadgets and cross-origin resource sharing014:48, 25 March 2015
Flagged for vandalism?018:02, 24 March 2015
Noun and adjectival phrase template220:15, 11 February 2015
Unflood119:34, 1 February 2015
Ejakulacija edit300:40, 27 January 2015
hi-noun and ur-noun420:35, 22 January 2015
Template talk:ms-adj010:58, 20 January 2015
Kucing200:37, 18 January 2015
User:SuperWonderbot218:15, 17 January 2015
Transliteration modules for some Indic and African languages410:38, 9 January 2015
PB<s>& J</s>P891722:35, 3 January 2015
internet100:03, 2 January 2015
Your habit of removing threats201:06, 28 December 2014
private contact109:18, 22 December 2014
aWa320:33, 16 December 2014
IPA for words ending in -odporny112:02, 14 December 2014
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Help with pronunciation modules

Hi. Can you look at why the ['кь'] = 'ḳ̍' rule is ignored in the headword line of ажакьа? The addition of a stress sign plays a role.

Vahag (talk)12:58, 28 June 2015

"к" is the third letter from the start. The mw.ustring.gsub(text, '..', tt) line takes successive pairs of characters and substitutes them according to the mapping; here, they are "аж", "ак", and "ьа". Since "кь" is on an odd position, it is not matched. I vaguely remember some other module being bitten by the same problem before.

My solution cheats a bit; it just restricts the pattern to pairs which start with consonants that have entries in the table. If you ever need to process overlapping pairs, or ones with some other consonant letters, it will no longer work.

Keφr13:46, 28 June 2015

I see, thanks.

Vahag (talk)14:01, 28 June 2015
 
 

Appendix:Unicode subpage links are gone/broken

I noticed after you edited Module:character info and Module:character list, the character links in the subpages of Appendix:Unicode are broken (as they no longer show up as links but just as displayed glyphs). Was this the intended behavior of those changes? Just curious.

Bumm13 (talk)18:58, 25 June 2015

Yes, it was indeed intentional. I have done it, in fact, after I noticed you creating entries for Unicode code points, giving the Unicode character name as the definition. I think such entries should not be created, and other editors have agreed with me in a few discussions about the topic: Talk:⦰ and Wiktionary:Beer parlour/2015/January#Is documenting all Unicode characters within the scope of Wiktionary?; although there was some disagreement about what should be put in their stead.

I am of the opinion that:

  • Wiktionary is a project that documents natural languages, not any particular computer encoding of them. There are already many websites presenting the Unicode character database in human-readable form, and there no real benefit to creating poor competition to them.
  • Unicode code point names do poorly as definitions of glyphs they represent, and should not be remotely treated as such. They are as just as much of technical artefacts as the code point numbers, combining classes, bidirectional classes, etc.
  • Emoji, dingbats and other symbols should be subject to the same attestation criteria as any other lexical item. It is better to be incomplete than unreliable.
Keφr19:15, 25 June 2015

So you also think it's reasonable to simply break linking with *everything* in Appendix:Unicode, even though it also contains single-character words such as in the CJK Unified Ideographs range? Then really, why have such an appendix at all if there is no individual character linking? I'm not really following your line of reasoning entirely.

Bumm13 (talk)19:23, 25 June 2015

If I tried the equivalent of {{#ifexist:X|[[X]]|X}}, it would run into expensive function limits quite quickly and fail to render. So it really is either all or nothing.

I have no idea why you would like to browse CJK characters through the Unicode appendix anyway; it is not like it is the most convenient way to do it, given their pretty much random placement.

Keφr19:31, 25 June 2015

Just because one person finds a method inconvenient doesn't mean everyone does. Unicode is a standard, and its ordering matters to things like CJKV characters; also, the placement is in radical-stroke order, not "pretty much random" as you attest. Perhaps you don't know as much about these things as you think you do?

Bumm13 (talk)19:34, 25 June 2015

Okay, I admit that I made that statement based on an extrapolation from my observations about placement of letters in Latin and Cyrillic scripts, which at this point are decided on a "wherever it fits" basis. I realise the analogy may not carry through completely, and Unicode Inc. may even attempt to maintain some sane ordering within individual allocation ranges. I can grant you that. (Even though you cannot rely on this property on a large scale: U+20000 has fewer strokes than U+4684. From that perspective, the placement really is random.)

On the other hand, this is still not the most convenient way to browse CJK characters, given that you only have a meaningless number next to the character itself in a smallish font, and a completely nondescriptive character name of the "CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-XXXXX"…

Anyway, there are some other reasons why I decided removing all links from that appendix was an overkill after all. I restored the links in Appendix:Unicode. Still, in the future please do not create entries of the kind that I mentioned.

Keφr20:14, 25 June 2015
 
 
 
 
 

Module:Unicode data and Unicode 8

I was just looking at the listings at Appendix:Unicode and it looks like Module:Unicode data needs to be updated to include the new Unicode ranges (including CJK Unified Ideographs Extension E). The new ranges are listed at http://unicode.org/versions/Unicode8.0.0/ . Cheers!

Bumm13 (talk)10:10, 21 June 2015

Done. (You could have done it yourself… I left every ingredient here.)

Keφr19:00, 21 June 2015
 

<tt><nowiki>{{acronym-old}}</nowiki></tt>

Re your edit summary, it's to remove pages from Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:acronym-old, per the post-deletion instructions.

 — I.S.M.E.T.A.07:56, 14 May 2015

Fix those instructions then. A redlink to a template can be clicked to reveal the deletion log, which saves some time (compared to typing the template name in the address bar).

Now, redlinks to deleted dictionary entries should be removed, sure. But that is because readers are generally not interested in log entries.

Keφr13:37, 15 May 2015
 

Gadgets and cross-origin resource sharing

I'd like to build a gadget similar to Quiet Quentin which would allow an editor to automatically import usage examples from tatoeba.org (short description here: Tatoeba-gadget). How can I build a gadget which makes cross-site requests? Is there a process for whitelisting? I guess it needs the Access-Control-Allow-Origin header set.

Jberkel (talk)14:48, 25 March 2015

Flagged for vandalism?

Hi, I am trying to wikify the list here https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Frequency_lists/Esperanto since the edits require modifying 1000 words at a time, the system is flagging me for vandalism. May I receive some help and or guidance on how to proceed from here?

BillDStrong (talk)18:02, 24 March 2015

Noun and adjectival phrase template

I made {{pl-decl-phrase}}. Let me know whether the input format is acceptable.

Tweenk (talk)19:53, 3 February 2015

Dobre na początek, choć mnie przyszło do głowy co innego. Raz, w tabelce dobrze byłoby linkować całe odmienione formy, a nie tylko pojedyncze wyrazy. Dwa, formy odchylające się od wzorca można podawać jako parametry całego szablonu przecież, a nie samej odmieniarki (|vocs=Słodka Aniu, nie f!A!ni!vocs=Aniu).

Zastanawiam się też, czy nie dałoby się zrobić, żeby wzorzec deklinacji rzeczownika był wyznaczany przez moduł automatycznie. Pełnego automatu, jak z przymiotnikami, raczej się nie zrobi, i oczywiście wyjątki się będą trafiać wcale nierzadko, ale wydaje mi się, że rzeczownik w mianowniku wraz z rodzajem-ożywionością (m-pr, m-an, m-in, f, n, i osobny znacznik dla przymiotników, bo w końcu sarnasarny, ale ciężarnaciężarnej) powinien w większości przypadków wyznaczać jednoznacznie wzorzec odmiany. Wtedy można by zrobić jeden szablon, który może odmienić wszystko, i któremu podawałoby się całe wyrazy. Wtedy wszystko byłoby prostsze i bardziej czytelne.

Keφr16:49, 9 February 2015

Wyszukiwarka jest w stanie znaleźć formy występujące w tabelce z odmianą, np. po wpisaniu "elektrycznych zespołów trakcyjnych" w wynikach pojawia się "elektryczny zespół trakcyjny", więc nie wiem, czy tworzenie stron dla tych form jest sensowne.

Jeśli chodzi o formy oboczne, to można całość napisać tak, żeby parametry typu |vocs= były obsługiwane zarówno dla poszczególnych składowych jak i dla całego wyrażenia. Często jest tak, że np. w wyrażeniu przymiotnik-rzeczownik tylko rzeczownik ma formy oboczne - wtedy używając form obocznych dla składowych można zaoszczędzić sobie pisania.

Kwestia 'bardziej automatycznej' deklinacji rzeczowników jest niezależna od samego pl-decl-phrase. Pierwszy parametr to jest po prostu nazwa wzorca deklinacji (elementu tablicy patterns) w Module:pl-noun, więc jeśli wymyślimy jakiś bardziej ogólny wzorzec, to od razu będzie można go użyć w pl-decl-phrase. Natomiast można zrobić coś w tym rodzaju:

{{pl-decl-phrase|f!kiełba!s|adj!wyborcza}}

Dla takich parametrów szablon mógłby sam zgadywać, że przymiotnik powinien mieć żeńską odmianę, bo w wyrażeniu występuje rzeczownik rodzaju żeńskiego.

Tweenk (talk)20:15, 11 February 2015
 
 

Hi. You can unflood-flag me again if you fancy. Regards

Type56op9 (talk)19:30, 1 February 2015

Yes check.svg Done. Cheers.

- -sche (discuss)19:34, 1 February 2015
 

Ejakulacija edit

Kephir, your bot reverted my edit. The language is Slovene not Serbo-Croatian and I also added a correct definition. Please revert the definition page to include my adds.

Thanks

BigBearLovesPanda (talk)22:49, 26 January 2015

No, the entry is for Serbo-Croatian. If it also exists in Slovene then there should be a separate entry for that, you shouldn't just go around removing stuff.

CodeCat22:56, 26 January 2015

I'm not "just going around changing stuff" as you put it. The Slovene translation link sent me to the wrong page, which isn't immediately obvious in the Wiktionary Android App. Only after using a web browser is it obvious. I will create a Slovene page and I assume the translation link will then work.

BigBearLovesPanda (talk)00:40, 27 January 2015
 

I'm not "just going around changing stuff" as you put it. The Slovene translation link sent me to the wrong page, which isn't immediately obvious in the Wiktionary Android App. Only after using a web browser is it obvious. I will create a Slovene page and I assume the translation link will then work.

BigBearLovesPanda (talk)00:40, 27 January 2015
 

That was no bot, and you are on the way to being blocked for edit warring.

The definition was not in English, and you destroyed a valid language header. To add a definition in another language, add a new header.

Keφr22:58, 26 January 2015
 

hi-noun and ur-noun

Hey! Sorry, for the last revert. For some reason, the Urdu spelling in hi-noun didn't take the Urdu font specifications and it looked really odd and blocky. Now it looks better, however it's bolded and so is the Hindi spelling in Urdu entries. It makes it hard to read (we intentionally increased the size of Urdu and Hindi font specifications so that they are more legible, but making them bold makes both hard to read). Can you make the text regular and not bold?

Dijan (talk)09:05, 21 January 2015

This should do it.

Keφr17:22, 21 January 2015

That's not exactly what I had in mind and your edit only worked on Arabic language and Devanagari script. What I meant was that in the actual templates themselves, when the spelling in the other script is provided, it shouldn't be bolded when it is wikified. Otherwise, as a headword, it's fine to be bolded.

Dijan (talk)03:29, 22 January 2015

I do not get it. If emboldening hurts legibility, why allow it anywhere? And if it does not, why make an exception for script variants?

Keφr07:40, 22 January 2015

I'm sorry if I confused you. I think it was just my browser that's been acting funny the last few days.

Dijan (talk)20:35, 22 January 2015
 
 
 
 

Care to lend a hand?

Malaysiaboy (talk)10:58, 20 January 2015

Could you move back Kucing to kucing. Someone moved it and I don't know how xx --Malaysiaboy (talk) 01:18, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Malaysiaboy (talk)01:18, 17 January 2015

Done. (I have also edited a few related entries which apparently mischaracterised relations between these variously spelled words.)

Keφr10:21, 17 January 2015

Thanks a lot for helping!

Malaysiaboy (talk)00:37, 18 January 2015
 
 

I don't want to go pointing fingers, but I think User:Type56op9 may be ban evading. The content looks near-identical, and SuperWonderbot started about where (and when) Type56 left off. As a more experienced user, and the one who banned Type56 in the first place, I'll defer judgement to you.

ObsequiousNewt (ἔβαζα|ἐτλέλεσα)19:26, 23 December 2014

Just fyi, this is Wonderfool, aka several hundred other aliases. At times he's a conscientious and prolific editor, at times a shoddy and irresponsible one, but he never should be taken at face value. He's been banned many, many times for very good reasons, but he's very persistent. At one point it was decided to tolerate him as long as he behaves, and block him when he doesn't.

Chuck Entz (talk)14:57, 24 December 2014
 

Well, per his admission, I've blocked him for a week. I hope this will give more experienced janitors the time to sort this out.

ObsequiousNewt (ἔβαζα|ἐτλέλεσα)23:03, 24 December 2014
 

Transliteration modules for some Indic and African languages

Hi,

I wonder if you're willing to help with transliteration modules for a variety languages. Don't freak out, you don't need to learn any new script, you would need to work with the resulting romanisation. I'm almost sure this could be an easy task for you. Besides, you don't have to work on all modules, if you make one work, the logic can be copied to other modules, assuming the rules for dropping the inherent vowels are identical.

The help required is for removing inherent vowels "a" (Hindi, Gujarati, etc.), "ô" (Bengali, Oriya, etc.), "ə" (Amharic, Tigrinya, etc.), which is dropped in certain positions. All these languages are 99% phonetic, the only problem is, we need to drop the vowels (as per standard transliterations), e.g. देवनागरी (devnāgrī). Although it's spelled "devanāgarī", the inherent vowel "a" is dropped in certain positions. We can write test cases and describe some rules for you.

See one case in Module:hi-translit/testcases and a discussion in User_talk:DerekWinters#Bengali_transliteration_module.

Let me know if you're interested. Fixing this problem will cover a large number of scripts for languages with a large number of speakers! Isn't it exciting? If you say no, it's OK, I'll ask someone else. :)

There are other, less urgent issues, like displaying nasalazations, which is dependent on what follows the anusvara symbol. We have a temp solution, which may become a permanent one.

Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад)23:54, 7 January 2015

It does look interesting, but I am not sure if I can afford the time. And right now I see no good way to approach it. If you could add some more material, please do. I will take a look… eventually.

Keφr21:07, 8 January 2015

Thanks, User:DerekWinters has described some scenarios for Hindi on his talk page but if you prefer to work with test cases, as in Module:hi-translit/testcases we can make them better. No rush, of course. Let me or DerekWinters know if you need any clarifications

Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад)22:26, 8 January 2015

Schwa deletion in Indo-Aryan languages has some more info on schwa syncope, although the transliteration they use is not standard. Various dictionaries handle somewhat differently some corner cases but we can choose one approach.

Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад)00:13, 9 January 2015
 

Not at this point. I need to know what the rules are, not what the exceptions are.

Keφr10:38, 9 January 2015
 
 
 

PB<s>& J</s>P89

While I certainly agree that PBP can be very annoying and full of... himself, I don't think your current way of responding is a good idea. It's bad enough to have him whining about trivialities- do you really want to give him verifiable harassment and even abuse for ammunition?

You have a lot in common with Equinox, who is also a tremendous asset to Wiktionary (the best ever with English-language entries, as far as I'm concerned), but is, like you, very thin-skinned in dealing with stupidity. He was so obsessive over Luciferwildcat that he ended up doing something really stupid and getting de-sysopped for a while.

LW, like Pass a Method, was a good illustration of the blind spot Wiktionary has in dealing with sincere incompetence- PBP can't hold a candle to him with respect to sheer stupidity and bad lexical judgment. I personally believe he only lasted as long as he did because of discomfort with the abuse he received from people like Dick Laurent early on. PBP is only mediocre as an editor (he's improved, some), but is the worst I've ever seen as far as w:Dunning-Kruger effect-fueled self-righteousness in discussions.

At any rate, your current course of action is likely to result in your being de-sysopped, and PBP still being around to crow about it- do you really want that?

Chuck Entz (talk)21:51, 27 December 2014

I think editing his signature and replacing it with unsigned is a best just plain stupid, at worst dishonest and an attempt to annoy him and other people. Why do you want to annoy the rest of us? It's not just you and him that read talk pages you know.

Renard Migrant (talk)16:56, 29 December 2014

It had no link to his user page, which you might have missed amongst the fancy mark-up. So it barely qualified as a signature at all. It was not me who blew this out of proportion. Though I kind of agree with what you both wrote.

My question for you: how much more of these shenanigans are you willing to tolerate? In a few months, PBP is going to find another excuse for a witch hunt. Are you going to just let him?

Keφr17:27, 29 December 2014

It's a lot easier dealing with someone crying wolf if you don't have someone standing there in a wolf costume making howling noises. We'll burn that bridge when we come to it...

Chuck Entz (talk)03:01, 30 December 2014

This is not an answer.

Keφr13:19, 30 December 2014

I think what Chuck is saying is that you've given me ample cause to be upset with you and demand that you hand over your tools

Purplebackpack8917:52, 3 January 2015
 
 
 
 
 

Regarding the first concern, I apologize for my unawareness about these politics. I'm new to Wiktionary and that means I need a better knowledge about the rules we use. As to the inappropriate usage of {{etyl|en|sh}}, I'll pay a closer attention next time. Thanks for the warnings -

Alumnum (talk)23:10, 1 January 2015

No problem. I am starting to think whether I should add a proverb entry for lurk moar… proverb or not, this is surely something worth following here.

Keφr00:03, 2 January 2015
 

Your habit of removing threats

Your habit of removing threats from your talk page is objectionable.

Dan Polansky (talk)10:59, 14 December 2014

I think removing threats from talk pages is perfectly fine.

Keφr11:02, 14 December 2014

Oops, threads.

Dan Polansky (talk)11:15, 14 December 2014
 
 

private contact

Is there some way I could contact you privately? I have a few questions for you, but I don’t feel comfortable displaying them in public. I’d e‐mail you, but I can’t.

Romanophile (talk)08:38, 22 December 2014

There is not. I have never cared enough to maintain one.

Keφr09:18, 22 December 2014
 

Your aWa script is very helpful in keeping the size of RFD &c. down, but when archiving old discussions, for example [1], it gives overlong commit messages, with the effect that we can only see whither the first four discussions are archived. Could you please find a solution for this?

ObsequiousNewt (ἔβαζα|ἐτλέλεσα)19:47, 16 December 2014

Which would be? If you know enough about programming to use "commit message" to refer to an edit summary, I think you can come up with a solution yourself.

Keφr19:53, 16 December 2014

Whoops, heh. Yeah, I meant edit summary. I asked because it was your script, but the solutions I see are either limiting the script to make only a certain number of archivings at once, or else leaving a link to the archived discussion on the RFD page. Do either of these sound acceptable?

ObsequiousNewt (ἔβαζα|ἐτλέλεσα)20:09, 16 December 2014

My script? Oh please. I seriously need to hand it over to someone else.

The latter would probably defeat the point of archiving (since you have to later edit these links out anyway).

The former would require either limiting the number of discussions the user can pick (which is inconvenient) or the saving part of the script to undergo a nontrivial re-write. Which it might be in need of anyway, so maybe.

Keφr20:33, 16 December 2014
 
 
 

IPA for words ending in -odporny

Can you check the IPA for words such as żaroodporny, idiotoodporny, etc. which I added recently? I think these can be pronounced either with a glottal stop between the double o's, or with a long vowel - I'm not sure how to represent the second possibility in IPA.

Tweenk (talk)05:20, 14 December 2014

They look fine to me. Though you might want to ask someone else.

I am not so sure -odoprny is a suffix in the first place, though.

Keφr12:02, 14 December 2014
 
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