Wiktionary:Grease pit

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Wiktionary > Discussion rooms > Grease pit

Welcome to the Grease pit!

This is an area to complement the Beer parlour and Tea room. Its purpose is specifically for discussing the future development of the English Wiktionary, both as a dictionary and as a website.

The Grease pit is a place to discuss technical issues such as templates, CSS, JavaScript, the MediaWiki software, extensions to it, the toolserver, etc. It is also a place to think in non-technical ways about how to make the best free and open online dictionary of "all words in all languages".

It is said that while the classic beer parlour is a place for people from all walks of life to talk about politics, news, sports, and picking up chicks, the grease pit is a place for mechanics, engineers, and technicians to talk about nuts and bolts, engine overhauls, fancy paint jobs, lumpy cams, and fat exhausts. That may or may not make things clearer... Others have understood this page to explain the "how" of things, while the Beer parlour addresses the "why".

Permanent notice

  • Tips and tricks about customization or personalization of CSS and JS files are listed at WT:CUSTOM.
  • Other tips and tricks are at WT:TAT.
  • Everyone is encouraged to expand both pages, or to come up with more such stuff. Other known pages with "tips-n-tricks" are to be listed here as well.

Grease pit archives edit


May 2015

Two issues with Japanese entries[edit]

(copied from User talk:Eirikr)

I got two issues with Japanese entries today

  1. 十七 doesn't display an additional reading - "じゅうなな"
  2. 稟告's kanji categories are not correctly generated. I made manual ones but they are empty - Category:Japanese terms spelled with 稟 read as ひん and Category:Japanese terms spelled with 稟 read as りん. Any help is appreciated. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 13:08, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
十七: Is this good? (it's truly awful how templates can be so sensitive to whitespace :'D) —umbreon126 01:29, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
稟告: The same code works on other pages (I tested 隣国) so perhaps it has to do with the page name? (Maybe the "Jinmeiyō" designation for 稟?) —umbreon126 01:34, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
Yep I think it has something to do with the "Jinmeiyō" part because 喋喋 and 蜜柑 act different too —umbreon126 01:38, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for the fix on 十七! I have no idea about the other problem. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 02:18, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
It's because they're jinmeiyō, because the module doesn't make those readings subcategories for kanji not taught in secondary schools. Probably I should have mentioned that in the doc. If people want to change the behavior there are maybe three choices:
  1. allow kanji manually as needed -- the code already does that for a some kanji. The exceptions are the string "厭昌之芽昌浩智晃淳敦聡晃旭亮"... at Module:ja-kanjitab. Copying and pasting kanji into that string will make the categories appear.
  2. remove a few lines of code that do (1) and make readings subcategories for every kanji
  3. (I'm 99% sure this is possible but haven't done it before) add the category link only when the category already exists, that is, fall back on the higher category in case of redlink --Haplogy () 07:42, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

cx template not putting comma after 'literally'. See abaisser.[edit]

I don't believe this is intended? At the moment it says 'literally transitive' which baffled me in the beginning as I interpreted 'literally' as a modifier for 'transitive' - literally transitive as opposed to.. what? So if anyone could put a comma after 'literally' in the template, that'll be great :0. JamesjiaoTC 21:50, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

This could be an easy fix, but there are likely some entries that were written to rely on the lack of a comma. For those, inserting a comma would make things look off. So I'm not sure what could be done here? —CodeCat 22:32, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
Someone could check a current database dump (I don't have time to download one at the moment) to see which pages use "literally" followed by another context label. If feasible, they could flip through all the pages with AWB to see which, if any, relied on the absence of a comma. Motherfucker, for instance, would benefit from a comma, as would abstract — it currently displays "literally figuratively"! - -sche (discuss) 05:31, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
"I literally walked to the bus stop." Renard Migrant (talk) 09:30, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
You didn't literally put that in a context label, though, did you? - -sche (discuss) 14:20, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
No it just made me smile. Renard Migrant (talk) 16:25, 6 May 2015 (UTC)


How the bloody hell do you create these? {{topic cat/documentation}} points to Module:category tree and Module:category tree/topic cat, but I can't find parameters for individual topical categories in either of these. So where are they? Renard Migrant (talk) 09:29, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Shortcut: go to a category of the same type, click on the "edit" link at the end of the description, and you'll find yourself at the data sub-sub-sub module for that category, in edit mode. I usually copypaste one of the other sections into the appropriate place in the alphabetical order and replace all the content- that way I don't have to worry about getting the picky details of the syntax right. The only really tricky part is choosing the right category to start from, and the right parent. In this case, Category:Pedophilia is under Category:Sex, so I would start from Category:en:Pedophilia (defined in Module:category tree/topic cat/data/Sex) and make "sex" the primary parent (you only get two parents: the primary and the secondary).
That said, I wouldn't create the category at all, because it's redundant to Category:en:Philias. Better to just remove it from the entry and tag the category for deletion. Chuck Entz (talk) 13:14, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
Redundant? So Japanophilia is a paraphilia, then? Renard Migrant (talk) 13:19, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
Given that our sole definition of the countable sense of philia is "a psychological disorder characterized by an irrational favorable disposition towards something", I'd say Japanophilia isn't a philia at all, let alone a paraphilia. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 13:41, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
Yes, this looks like it's turned into a mirror of Category:English words suffixed with -philia. Chuck Entz (talk) 13:52, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
By redundant, I mean that all of the entries in Category:en:Paraphilias are already in Category:en:Philias. I suppose there's some benefit to having it in the tree under Category:en:Sex, so you may be right to create it. Chuck Entz (talk) 13:52, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
There's no limit to how many parents you can have actually. But the first one is the primary parent, it's the one used in the breadcrumb list at the top. —CodeCat 13:20, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
(not strictly on topic) Category:en:Philias seems to have turned into Category:English words suffixed with -philia. Renard Migrant (talk) 16:22, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
It's too tough for me, I'll leave it to the experts. Renard Migrant (talk) 11:51, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Language codes mhr not valid[edit]

In holy, the Mari language code mhr (Eastern Mari) produced this error:

Mari: Lua error in Module:translations at line 40: The language code "mhr" is not valid.

I tried it again and got this:

Lua error in Module:languages/templates at line 28: The language code 'mhr' is not valid.: Lua error in Module:parameters at line 41: The parameter "<strong class" does not exist. —Stephen (Talk) 06:47, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
"mhr" is merged with "chm" (Mari). Eastern Mari is the most common and the standard variety of Mari, when referring to Mari, people usually mean Eastern or Meadow Mari. "mrj" is still the code for Western or Hill Mari. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 06:54, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
(edit conflict) The ISO/Ethnologue in effect gave Eastern Mari two codes, and we decided to use chm rather than mhr, so the solution for Eastern Mari (aka standard Mari) is to switch from writing "mhr" to writing "chm". See Wiktionary:Language treatment and the two discussions it links to, Wiktionary:Beer parlour/2013/September#Merging_Mari_and_Buryat_varieties and Wiktionary:Language treatment/Discussions#Merging_Buryat_dialects.3B_also.2C_merging_Mari_dialects. mrj should be working for Western Mari, and for me it is. Hmm... - -sche (discuss) 06:54, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
It would be great if someone could add automatic conversion, like with Serbo-Croations varieties - type "bs" - get "sh". --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 07:34, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
Do you mean that the code is automatically changed on saving the page? I don't think that's possible at all. If you mean that the codes are simply synonyms, that is more feasible but only if all uses of that code are passed through Module:languages. So if there is a template that uses, for example, {{{lang}}} instead of {{#invoke:languages/templates|getByCode|{{{lang}}}|getCode}}, then things won't work right. Likewise, modules would need to always retrieve the code through the :getCode() method of languages, and never directly from the parameter. —CodeCat 21:06, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
@CodeCat I meant (currently) line 2,491 in User:Conrad.Irwin/editor.js starting "var clean = ...". It seems simple, I might add it later when it's the right side of midnight. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 15:04, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

What is the i=1 parameter added to external links?[edit]

For example, {{specieslite|Nosema|i=1}}, (diff).

It does nothing at all, it seems. —CodeCat 21:07, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
Hmm. Thank you. —BoBoMisiu (talk) 23:51, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
It would have the side-effect of causing Module:parameters to generate a module error if any of those templates were converted to use it, though. Chuck Entz (talk) 01:21, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
We should have the ability to selectively italicize the display in the project links. I come across this for taxonomic names for which entries have links to pedia, species, and commons. I mentioned the matter in Template talk:pedia, apparently not watched by anyone capable and desirous of making the changes required. DCDuring TALK 11:44, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
There is ''{{pedia}}''. Renard Migrant (talk) 11:50, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

topic cat TOC tweaks[edit]

The standard category "List of topics" should never have anything but English category names in it, and the names in the language-specific versions are all prefixed by the language code. For example, what's the point of even having a TOC for Category:ru:List of topics, when there are no Cyrillic-initialed category contents for the Cyrillic TOC to link to? Would it be possible to always use an English TOC in the language-specific lists of topics, and to strip the language-code prefix for that TOC?

As for the TOC for "All topics": it has the same issue, but the solution is different- only Category:All topics needs one. All the language-specific ones have fewer than the 200 members needed to go to multiple pages, so the TOC should be suppressed for those. Chuck Entz (talk) 21:33, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

This is really a wider problem for categories that contain other categories. Entry names are in the current language, but category names are in English regardless. What should be done for categories that contain both? It's possible for modules to tell whether a category contains entries, categories or both (via mw.site.stats.pagesInCategory), so the module could in theory be made to test for this and select the TOCs appropriately. But I have found that this causes some slowdown, especially because it presumably means this function has to retrieve a list of everything in the category and then count. There was originally code in Module:category tree to include a "large" TOC when the category contains more than a threshold number of pages, but this was removed some time ago because of that slowdown. —CodeCat 21:47, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
Yes, it's part of a broader problem, but the narrower problem doesn't have the implementation barriers of the broader one. Why not fix what we can fix, and maybe someday replace this fix with a better one when it becomes available? Chuck Entz (talk) 22:25, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
But how would the narrower problem be fixed? Are you suggesting a hack for "List of Topics" alone, that might well take more effort to implement than the full fix? —CodeCat 23:05, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
Here's another thought: category tree has the following line:
local isEmpty = mw.site.stats.pagesInCategory(mw.title.getCurrentTitle().text, "all") == 0
How much performance difference would there be if you took out the second parameter and saved the resulting table, then set isEmpty based on whether all the counts were zero? It seems to me like a lot of the expensive part of the function would be shared by the different counts, not duplicated. I'm sure running the function once- even with all the bells and whistles- would take less time than running it twice, as you did before. Chuck Entz (talk) 23:25, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
That's a good idea. Do you want to try it? —CodeCat 23:33, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
I think it would be worth trying, but I'm better at reading Lua than writing it, so I'd rather not do the code myself. Chuck Entz (talk) 23:45, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
If a flag were added that category tree subtemplates could set for subcategory-only categories, it would allow tracking of non-categories to such categories in the same way empty categories are tracked. There are probably other uses, as well. Chuck Entz (talk) 01:29, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Semicolons in Template:label[edit]

I think semicolons would improve the intelligibility of context labels in a small number of entries like Billett where it's necessary to note that a term has multiple levels of rareness or currency vs archaicity in multiple regions. I suggest modifying Template:label et al. to accepted ";" as a parameter similar to "or", in that it suppresses the usual comma and displays a semicolon instead (which, unlike "or", won't be separated from the previous label by a space). I would like to type {{lb|de|current in|_|Switzerland|Belgium|Luxembourg|;|archaic in|_|Austria|;|dated|_|elsewhere}} and get (current in Switzerland, Belgium, Luxembourg; archaic in Austria; dated elsewhere). Drawback: the semicolon might be overused (e.g. people might type "archaic|;|rare" where just "archaic|rare" would be sufficient). - -sche (discuss) 22:19, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Template:User lang-x's to show languages' canonical names[edit]

Template talk:User lang--Dixtosa (talk) 07:33, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Archiving done wrong[edit]

I've noticed that people just copy and paste. That is horrible and does not preserve the history. Why don't you just move it?--Dixtosa (talk) 16:41, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

gd-noun, plurals and genitives[edit]

I am working on adding Gaelic names of fauna. Some of the bees I am adding have long compound names like "seillean càrdair nan lurgann dearg", which is a "red-shanked carder bee" (Bombus ruderarius). I am not sure of the genitive in these cases, so I don't want to include a genitive clause, but I do know the plural. When I try to include the plural form of this creature's name (seilleanan càrdair nan lurgann dearg) in {{gd-noun}}, the plural will not display.

After some rudimentary testing, I have determined that if the genitive case is empty, {{gd-noun}} will not display the plural regardless of whether the genitive tag is included. E.g. "xyz" will not be displayed in either of these cases: {{gd-noun|gen=|g=m|pl=xyz}} or {{gd-noun|g=m|pl=xyz}}. When the genitive value is not NULL/NIL, the plural is always displayed. A few of the existing examples are: seillean càrdair cumanta, seillean càrdair nan lurgann dearg and seillean-mòr a' bhlàir-fhraoich.

Having looked briefly at the code, and not wanting to break any of the 5,443 existing Gaelic nouns, I bring this issue here rather than try to solve it on my own.

Can/would anyone help me? Thanks in advance. Kibi78704 (talk) 19:59, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

I will look into fixing it, but it will take a while as it's quite a jumble. —CodeCat 20:01, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
@Kibi78704 I've rearranged a lot of the code, hopefully it's all good now. —CodeCat 22:21, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
@CodeCat Thank you SO much! I have not had a chance to look at it yet, but I am grateful for the time you spent on it! Kibi78704 (talk) 23:07, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Burmese script font troubles[edit]

The diacritics in Burmese font aren't all showing up over the correct letter for me, but some are instead turning up as individual characters above a dotted circle. Assuming that one of our Mymr fonts was not performing the character compositions correctly, I checked them all individually by removing one font at a time from Mediawiki:Common.css, and then clicking 'Hard purge' on အငြိမ့် (where the C-shaped diacritic on the last character is not on top of the last letter). I didn't succeed in removing the problem, so I'm really unsure of what to do now. @Angr, -sche, CodeCat. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 21:16, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

It displays right for me, so it's not a problem at Wiktionary's end. It sounds like your font might be having an issue with the ordering of the two diacritics and . What do the following look like for you?
အငြိမ့် ( before )
အငြိမ့် ( before )
I think that the first one is the canonically correct order, but I also think our software should automatically correct the order if it's entered wrong (which is why I had to use HTML entities above to show the difference). But maybe that's what's going wrong for you? At any rate, both of the above display correctly for me. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 21:42, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
Both display fine for me as well, just as pagetitles do. We've had the issue before where we were specifying fonts that were faulty and then used by browsers, so I thought that would be it. The thing is, we should be able to display everything correctly regardless of user-end font specs. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 22:03, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
If they display fine for you, what isn't displaying right? Burmese fonts are always a little wonky. On Firefox, Burmese only displays correctly for me if it's inside a tag like {{l}}, {{lang}}, {{m}}, or {{t}}. If it's not inside a tag, I get boxes (including in the edit window and in page titles). In Chrome, on the other hand, Burmese displays right for me everywhere except browser tabs. And this is on the same computer with the same fonts installed. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 22:07, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Bot request: replace r with ɹ inside IPA and rhymes[edit]

Um, yeah. Replace r with ɹ inside IPA and rhymes if and only if the language statement is en. Any questions? I'll remind you (before someone asks), that ɹ rather than r is recommended by a vote. Renard Migrant (talk) 15:19, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Bihari language not recognised by the software[edit]

There is an error on भूगोल, and I did some tracing to find out why it happens. It seems to come down to this code in Module:wikimedia languages: mw.language.isKnownLanguageTag(code). When given "bh" as the code, this function returns false. But this is strange, because there is, in fact, a Bihari Wikipedia: //bh.wikipedia.org/ . So why is this function saying that the software doesn't recognise the code? —CodeCat 12:23, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

[1]. They forgot to rename the wiki xD.--Dixtosa (talk) 14:37, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
But we're using "bh" as the code for Bihari in Wiktionary as well. Should that be changed? —CodeCat 14:53, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
Yup I guess as it not a single language. P.S. the default language is bho on bh.wiki. --Dixtosa (talk) 15:11, 15 May 2015 (UTC)


Why doesn't {{deftempboiler}} have an {{{id}}} to discriminate a particular {{senseid}} target in the same way {{l}} does? —BoBoMisiu (talk) 14:55, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

It's an old template, written before senseids were introduced. It should probably be converted to Lua at some point and brought up to date, along with other templates. —CodeCat 15:27, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

Someone accidentally fudged en-noun[edit]

clockpunk headword: clockpunk (plural [Term?]) (code is {{en-noun|~}}). Also adds Category:English term requests. Not sure if {{en-noun}} is the culprit or it's Module:en-headword. Renard Migrant (talk) 17:20, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Revert 'em all. DCDuring TALK 17:47, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
Fixed now. —CodeCat 17:49, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
Principal namespace isn't a sandbox.
Do we need some kind of test rig that behaves like principal namespace? Or should the basic practice of duplicating entire template and module trees under different names be insisted upon? DCDuring TALK 17:47, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
No, unit tests are enough. Creating thorough tests (like this) is tiresome but worthy. Note one can check if the change causes any errors using the "show preview" button without saving it first. --Dixtosa (talk) 18:14, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
For template/Lua editors: Please note the existence of both the "Preview page with this template" box on the edit screen, and Special:TemplateSandbox. --Yair rand (talk) 23:56, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
I'm aware of this and I did preview it, but this was a use case I apparently missed. —CodeCat 01:37, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Oh well. As Mao('s translators) wrote: "You can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs." DCDuring TALK 02:29, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
In fairness sometimes you just screw up. The difference is, on a single page you can revert in second, with a template used thousands of times it takes a lot longer for the server to catch up. Though I'm surprised nobody spotted it before I did. Something like {{en-noun/test}} where you start with a verbatim copy of en-noun then modify it and try it on a page. In fact you can see that en-noun/test has previously existed and been deleted (as it should be when not in use). Renard Migrant (talk) 17:24, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Reduplication template?[edit]

We have Category:Reduplications by language, but AFAICT we don't have any template that categorizes into it. Could someone please make a template {{reduplication}} to be used in etymology sections (not a definition-line form-of template, though, which is why it probably shouldn't be called {{reduplication of}}) that will categorize terms into the language's reduplication category? I could do it myself the old-fashioned way, but I suppose it really ought to invoke Module:category tree or something, and I don't know how to do that. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 14:16, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

If you make it the old fashioned way, I can check it and fix things up if you like? —CodeCat 14:25, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Will you fix this up too? You can see how it is going to be used here and how contributors were immensely delighted about the proposal here. --Dixtosa (talk) 17:23, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
I've done that now. —CodeCat 17:35, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
OK, old-fashioned template is at User:Angr/Template:reduplication. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 21:18, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Done. It appears that this template takes the exact same parameters as {{m}}, so there is a further optimisation I could apply. The template could invoke the module used by {{m}} directly rather than calling the template as an intermediate. —CodeCat 21:25, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, the way you rewrote it. I had intended the syntax to be {{reduplication|jaw|lang=en}}, but your syntax is {{reduplication|en|jaw}} which is indeed just like {{m}}. I think my way is a little more intuitive; it has the same syntax as other etymology templates like {{clipping}}. In fact, I'd like it to take all the parameters that {{clipping}} does. And I'm also thinking about whether it should take a parameter specifying the type of reduplication: total reduplication (e.g. jaw-jaw), rhyming reduplication (e.g. jeepers creepers), alliterating reduplication (e.g. jibber-jabber), and so on. Maybe this is something to discuss at ES before taking the template live. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 22:01, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
I think lang= is more cumbersome than using the first parameter. And I'm not a fan of making templates default to English either. There is also clearly a tendency towards making templates work this way; {{m}}, {{label}} and {{ux}} were all created as alternatives/replacements for {{term}}, {{context}} and {{usex}}, and {{topic cat}} was also converted to this format years ago. So I think all new templates should be created this way. —CodeCat 22:17, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
I suppose it's a matter of what we expect and what we expect other people to expect. I've gotten used to the syntax of {{m}}, {{lb}}, and {{ux}}, but in general I expect templates to take a lang= parameter and I'm always having to go back and correct my syntax when I use something like {{prefixsee}} or {{phrasebook}}, because I expect them to take lang= and they don't. Anyway, I don't suppose it's a huge deal, but I do think things like nocap=, nodot=, gloss= and so on would be a good idea, and I probably will bring up the other things at ES, but not today because it's my bedtime. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 22:28, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
We could have both {{reduplication|lang=en}} and {{redup|en}} or something like that. As far as I can tell, we can still implement both with Module:links/templates, with the long one using compat=1. --WikiTiki89 22:34, 18 May 2015 (UTC)


Tabbed languages is not working right on this page, and the Citations tab and some gadgets are also missing. —CodeCat 17:14, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Looks fine to me. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 18:23, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Bot request "Alternative forms" headings in Albanian entries from L5 to L3[edit]

Our Wiki parser/checker revealed a systematic problem with Albanian entries done by User:Etimo. These have often "Alternative forms" as level5 header following a l2 header for the language itself (see e.g. Arbërore, Lekë, prehër and some hundred other entries - I have a list.) IMO, these "Alternative forms" should be level3 as can be seen in color. LinguistManiac (talk) 14:01, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

What LinguistManiac meant to say is that he would like a bot to fix the headings. --WikiTiki89 14:27, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
Yes, but actually to L3 - corrected the heading LinguistManiac (talk) 15:03, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Anchors in Chinese character entries[edit]

Would you consider adding subsection anchors in all the pages for Chinese characters? For example, then http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%85%88#Japanese would navigate directly to the Japanese section of that article. Same for Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, etc.

Such a link sort-of works now, but it takes me to the bottom of the Japanese section, not the top.

thanks, -Mark Garrett [e-mail redacted]

Hi! Wiktionary already has anchors (as you note), and these are supposed to take clickers to the top of the relevant language section. For me, that's just what they do. If they take you to the bottom of the language section instead, I suspect collapsing tables (which take up a certain amount of space when the page is loading, but then collapse and take up less space, causing the content below them to "rise") are to blame. We're aware of that bug, but we haven't found a good way of fixing it yet. - -sche (discuss) 20:14, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

"singular only" labels[edit]

Module:labels/data contains a label "singulare tantum" which displays "singular only", and a separate label "singular only" which displays "not used in the plural". They both categorize into pos_categories = {"singularia tantum"}. Is there some reason for having these as separate labels, or can the second one be combined into the first one? I noticed this when adding "no plural" as an alias of the first one. - -sche (discuss) 20:10, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

I have combined them. - -sche (discuss) 16:54, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
No (there is no good reason to have these as separate labels) and plurale tantum, plural only and pluralonly should be merged (if they are not currently merged). Renard Migrant (talk) 17:16, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Bugs in template {{C.}}[edit]

  • {{C.|22}} yields "22th c." - should be "22nd c."
  • {{C.|1}} yields "1th c." - should be "1st c."
  • {{C.|0}} yields "0th c." - I'm not convinced there was such a century
  • {{C.|-1}} yields "-1th c." - should be "1st c. BC" or some such
  • {{C.|too}} yields "tooth c." - template should do some basic vetting

SemperBlotto (talk) 20:26, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

It's not a bug, but a missing feature. You're supposed to do {{C.|22|nd}}, etc. --WikiTiki89 20:33, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Template error in my babel box[edit]

Why I am getting the following message in my babel box:

"Lua error in Module:languages/templates at line 28: The language code 'en-us' is not valid."

Did somebody delete the language code for en-us? I don't believe there was a consensus to do so. The babel I'm running is en-us-N, FWIW. Purplebackpack89 23:56, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

There never was such a code. —CodeCat 00:19, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Well, SOMEONE changed SOMETHING so that what worked before doesn't work now. This follows a pattern by SOMEONE imposing changes without without knowledge or concern about consequences and without bothering to ask. I wish that SOMEONE would stop for good. Further the response to Purplebackpack89 is so evasive as to be deceptive. How is one supposed to AGF while being played for a fool? DCDuring TALK 01:13, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
If the environment was less hostile and more cooperative, editors might be more willing to be open about the things they do. Your accusatory tone is not helping. —CodeCat 01:22, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
@CodeCat: If SOMEONE were more transparent in the activities engaged in, there would not be accusations. (Please note that it is an actual accusation, not merely the tone of one.) DCDuring TALK 08:21, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
First off, User:DCDuring, wha? You've completely hyperbolized what I asked in a manner that is ABF and generally unhelpful.
My best guess as to what happened is that there have been some recent changes to the babel template that require different templates exist, or else errors are generated. At one time, it may not have mattered that Template:en-us was a redlink, now it does. Not a coding expert, but would like there not to be error messages on my (and likely others') user pages. Purplebackpack89 04:15, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
BTW, User:DCDuring, the error in the template appears on your user page as well as mine, because you, like I, am in Category:User en-us-N. So you yourself have a least a little vested interest in getting this fixed. Purplebackpack89 04:33, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
@Purplebackpack89: Actually I had noticed it but had so despaired that such a thing would ever get fixed that I had chosen not to bring it up. But when a squeakier wheel brought it up, well .... DCDuring TALK 08:21, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
I suppose I should have been more politic, but someone has to bell the cat. DCDuring TALK 08:26, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Related discussion: Wiktionary:Requests for deletion/Others#Template:User_en-us-N (which shows no consensus for deletion). - -sche (discuss) 01:51, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
no, this is the related discussion. I would not give up on this feature.--Dixtosa (talk) 06:44, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Aha. If we implemented the third solution you mention on Template talk:User lang, rather than the second (which is the one I implemented), would that unbreak this? - -sche (discuss) 13:13, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
No. en-us does not exist in ISO 639.
A new function could be written specifically for this purpose maintaining a list of the additional language codes. Are en-uk and en-us the only additions? --Dixtosa (talk) 15:30, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
I know en-us isn't an ISO code, but the non-existence of a Wikipedia page wouldn't cause a module error the way the nonexistence of the code in Module:languages does, would it? - -sche (discuss) 17:25, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
I think it is completely unacceptable that non-existant language code causes Module:languages to throw an error and no content to display. What should happen is it should be taken as "und" and an error category and maybe message should be added to the content. --WikiTiki89 17:39, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
I agree with you, but apparently nobody who can do something about it cares what you think. DCDuring TALK 17:27, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Theme/Skin problem with pull-down tables[edit]

Pull-down tables have problems with skins Cologne Blue and Modern. Both with Internet Explorer 11 and with the latest Chrome, the label reading "Show" does not appear in the top-right corner. As an example, go to https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vedere, and scroll down to "Conjugation". The problem goes away if I pick another skin/theme, or I log out (whereby Wiktionary will pick the default skin, I imagine). The console in both IE and Chrome displays Javascript error messages when either problematic theme is selected. Thanks. - User:Rgiuntoli 09:05, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Incidentally, this is nothing new, it's been there for quite some time, and it's only now that at last I've had the opportunity to investigate this more in depth, and narrow the problem down to the abovementioned skins. - User:Rgiuntoli 09:09, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Template:synonym of, Template:alternative name of[edit]

and {{alternative term for}} which redirects to {{alternative name of}} all three seem to do the same thing and behave identically. --Dixtosa (talk) 22:19, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

I don't see what the problem is. They display different text. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 18:50, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
{{synonym of}} does not have a comprehensive documentation but I guess it is also
used to indicate exact synonymy between the headword and the linked-to target, when the two terms are not simply spelling or punctuation differences of each other, but instead include different words
--Dixtosa (talk) 19:15, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
It's the displayed text that matters. It would be weird to say "up for is an alternative name of or term for down for", mostly because these are not really names or terms. I guess "synonym of" is more general and can apply to pretty much anything, but sometimes it's good to be more specific and use "alternative term for" or "alternative name of" when these actually apply. Just like {{alternative spelling of}} is almost the same thing as but more specific than {{alternative form of}}. --WikiTiki89 19:26, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
What's the point of any of these in a definition line? They add words, but not value. Does someone find them useful for dump searches? DCDuring TALK 19:34, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
I think our human users find it useful. What does this have to do with dumps? --WikiTiki89 19:37, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
Useful for what? What information is conveyed that isn't conveyed by argument 1 and its link alone?
Also {{alternative name of}} is just a specialization of {{alternative term for}} for nouns.
The use for dumps is to find text that has been so marked by a human. Were these widely used they would have some value. If there were some project that used these for some distinction, that would be an argument for keeping them. DCDuring TALK 11:34, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
When you go to a grocery store to buy lemons, you might see a sign that says "Lemons - $X.XX/lb.". Are you going to complain that they should remove the word "Lemons" because people should already know those round yellow things are lemons? --WikiTiki89 14:17, 27 May 2015 (UTC)


I have moved it to {{blockquote}} because it was used for larger texts and the appearance was a proof of this. If I get no objections I ll replace all the uses of {{quote}} with blockquote and then move {{quote/new}} to {{quote}}--Dixtosa (talk) 15:57, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Edit to Module:cy-mut required[edit]

User:kc_kennylau hasn't been around in several weeks, so I'll ask the community at large: can someone please fix Module:cy-mut so that mut3 is "H" followed by a lowercase letter when the input is a capital vowel letter? For example, at Amwythig, the h-prothesis is currently generated as hAmwythig, but it ought to be Hamwythig. Thanks! —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 17:06, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

@Angr Actually I'm still here. Fixed. --kc_kennylau (talk) 22:52, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, Kenny! —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 14:12, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Basque verb templates[edit]

Having compared the Basque and the English wiktionaries, it is clear that Basque is lacking in terms of vocabulary and templates on Wiktionary. The vocab can be added quite easily, but the templates might take a bit longer. There is already a noun-inflection template here, but a verb-inflection template would really help. I would suggest that two templates be made, one for synthetic verbs (which exists in the Basque version, for example the very detailed page on esan) and one for generating non-finite forms for periphrastic conjugation. Is there anyone who would object to this for whatever reason? —This unsigned comment was added by Skahmed23 (talkcontribs).

it seems like we do not have any conjugation templates yet, so go ahead copy them from euwikt. Something is better that nothing.--Dixtosa (talk) 18:04, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
Just rememember that we have a unique combination of templates and modules underlying most of our basic templates that won't match those of eu Wiktionary, so you should have someone knowledgeable in our setup take a look at them once you port them over. It may be that we already have modules that do a great deal of what the template code does, but in a different way. Chuck Entz (talk) 01:20, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
Just had a look at the Basque version and that has no verb template either. Instead the users have manually inputted a table with the necessary forms. So it seems as though I would be working from scratch. As a complete novice at wiktionary coding, should I attempt to make a template myself or let someone else do it in due course? Skahmed23 (talk) 17:44, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
@Skahmed23: I'd certainly be prepared to work with you to make them (I'm not a template master, but I'm definitely good enough for this). Could you give some links to the ad hoc tables so I can see where to start? —JohnC5 20:54, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
@JohnC5: Sure thing! How should I send them to you? Skahmed23 (talk) 20:58, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
How about we work in my User:JohnC5/Sandbox2? —JohnC5 21:02, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
When you are finished make sure you move your sandbox or copypaste the content or even better work in a more appropriate place as the discussion about design choices and the coding might be interesting for a future user.
Also, before doing your coding try to find Basque templates in other Wiktionaries. They might help. I have found this and this
Also try to find the closest paradigm here and imitate it. --DixtosaBOT (talk) 05:40, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
Oooh, the Japanese Wiktionary table is quite nice (transitive found here). @Skahmed23: what do you think? —JohnC5 06:30, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
@JohnC5: I think the Japanese one is good in that it offers some sort of idea of what to do, although the formatting is unclear, and the contents are of varying degrees of accuracy. The French verb table is also quite nice, but is pretty much exactly what I have already made a template for. Skahmed23 (talk) 11:52, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

June 2015

specific definition url references[edit]

It should be possible to reference a specific definition via url. So someone could, elsewhere on the web, hyperlink words mid-sentence to the specific definition for clarity, perhaps using some sort of GUID in the case that definitions are added/removed. When visiting the link, it should be an anchor on the definition page. It should also have some sort of highlighting via CSS3 :target or some such

P.S. not only is this great for humans, it's great for machines too. —This unsigned comment was added by Tailspinhead (talkcontribs).

It's possible to create sense-specific anchors using {{anchor}}. I imagine that the reason sense-specific anchors are not created automatically is that Wiktionary, as a work in progress, tends to reorder senses, add senses (sometimes between existing senses), delete senses, and reword senses. Automatic anchors based on sense-number would break whenever the first three of those things happened; anchors based on definition (e.g. if the definition begins "A feeling of sadness and...", the software might come up with #afeelingof as an automatic anchor) would presumably break if someone reworded the sense. (Of course, such anchors would work if used on permalinks...) Bear in mind that it's only recently that someone proposed a fix to the bug that stops linking to a second ===Etymology=== section on a page that has a ===Etymology 2=== section. - -sche (discuss) 03:38, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
The issues you mention is exactly why I say to use a GUID. It should be automatic and no user intervention should be required. EVERY definition should AUTOMATICALLY have these things. It is a technical problem requiring a technical solution. (i.e. I consider it a bug in the software that it doesn't already do this, as it is obvious to a computer scientist that a dictionary should work this way) Tailspinhead (talk) 11:15, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
I think that reliably maintaining these IDs automatically would be quite tricky given the unstructured or free-form nature of Wikipedia editing. With each edit, the program would need to match "before" and "after" entries, and figure out which were intended to be the same (but maybe edited), which were new, which were deleted. With simple edits this would not be a problem, but with complex edits that changed a lot of stuff or moved it around, it would be pretty difficult I think. 23:58, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
"given the unstructured or free-form nature of Wikipedia editing" -- bug. Tailspinhead (talk) 12:11, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
It seems like you should file a feature-request on Phabricator. Automatic addition of sense-specific anchors would be within the control of the devs, not Wiktionarians. (I would file a report for you, but I don't have a Phabricator account.) I imagine the devs will themselves see the hurdles that have been pointed out in this thread (you should link to this thread from your Phabricator post), but you might persuade them that sense-specific anchors would still be useful because they could be employed in combination with permalinks to specific revisions of pages, and in that way would enable reliable links to specific definitions despite ongoing edits to Wiktionary. Mention that they will need to account for our occasional use of sub-senses and even sub-sub-senses, i.e. that most definitions begin with '#' on a new link, but some (nested below a '#') begin with '##' and potentially even '###', etc. - -sche (discuss) 17:49, 9 June 2015 (UTC)


How come this doesn't support "kept", "deleted", "speedy kept" and "speedy deleted" anymore? I tried to make it support those and now it doesn't. It needs to support those if at all possible. Purplebackpack89 20:44, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

It supports "passed", "failed", and "archived", what more do you need? Speedy deletions theoretically don't have discussions, and speedy keeps theoretically don't exist; when either of those is not the case, "archived" is the correct option because whatever happened was technically not a result of the discussion. --WikiTiki89 20:50, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
As I said above, "kept", "deleted", "speedy kept" and "speedy deleted"; the first and third synonymous with passed and the other two synonymous with failed. It's confusing at the present time for the template to support so few parameters; it would be less confusing if more parameters were supported. As for "why do we need speedy keep and speedy delete?", there are things that are at RfD, and an admin comes alonh, speedy deletes them long before the time limit ends, and closes the discussion. Those discussions would best be characterized as "speedy deleted". Purplebackpack89 20:53, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
As I said, speedies are not a result of the discussion and so "archived" suffices. If something was speedy deleted, it would have been speedy deleted even if there weren't a discussion. --WikiTiki89 20:59, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
But why shouldn't it support "kept" or "deleted" as parameters synonymous with "passed" and "failed"? Discussions are closed that way, why doesn't the template support those? Purplebackpack89 21:04, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
Why should it? You need to make a better case here. —CodeCat 21:27, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
Because the closers of discussions use the words "kept" and "deleted" rather than "passed" or "failed" to introduce the summary of findings. Because it's confusing to not have it. That's really all the argument I need. Purplebackpack89 21:42, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
  • I'd like to see the ability to close discussions as "RFD kept" rather than "RFD passed". RFD is neither a test or verification, so it cannot "pass". Thus, I ask that Kephir restores the version of the template that supports this. Actually, since RFD is "request for deletion", "passed" even suggests the request will be satisfied and the entry deleted. --Dan Polansky (talk) 06:51, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

It's time for a party who hasn't participated in this discussion to close this as add "keep" and "delete" as parameters. There are clearly at least two people in support of adding these, and nobody has provided an argument as to why they shouldn't be included. Purplebackpack89 18:31, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

This is no longer a technical issue, so if you want these parameters to be added, we need a WT:BP discussion to work out the details. I will start one. --WikiTiki89 18:42, 25 June 2015 (UTC)


In the entry burrë, an editor wants {{a|Arvanite}} or {{a|Arvanites}} to link to w:Arvanites. I can’t locate the proper place to add this, and I don’t know if it’s even needed. —Stephen (Talk) 22:50, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

@Stephen G. Brown: It seems to me that you would create {{accent:Arvanite}} (as in {{accent:US}}, {{accent:UK}}, etc.) Why this is not done with nice pretty module that just has a data page is bizarre to me. I may remake this template some time soon. —JohnC5 05:52, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. I started to make {{accent:Arvanite}} based on {{accent:US}}, but there are a couple of terms in it that I do not know what to do with. —Stephen (Talk) 06:53, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
@Stephen G. Brown: voilà: (Arvanite)JohnC5 07:37, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
Oh, thanks! —Stephen (Talk) 11:41, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Declension cases ordering preference[edit]

[I doubt this is the correct place for this, a feature request, but I'm lost.]

Is there a way that a user preference could be set up to control the order in which cases are listed in Latin declensions? (Ditto for other languages too, if there is demand from some users about eg German, Celtic.)

I just find the Latin order displayed currently is bruising my brain.

many thanks for all the outstanding work, CecilWard (talk) 08:01, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@CecilWard: I totally sympathize with you struggle. I too have found other orderings in other books and on other sites terribly confusing and frustrating. To my knowledge, however, no such change could be implemented easily as many language declension templates are coded very differently from one another and some languages have case systems of such hideous complexity that a user would go mad specifying all of their orders.
I cannot say it won't happen with certainty, but it seems extremely unlikely. Again, sorry for the inconvenience, but we strive to present case tables in the standard ordering according to English language scholarship. I will point out that the German declension templates ({{de-decl-noun}}) do not use the standard order, which should be NOM, ACC, GEN, DAT, but instead is the Latinate order NOM, GEN, DAT, ACC. —JohnC5 08:35, 7 June 2015 (UTC).

For reasons unknown, I was brought up with nom - voc - acc - gen - dat - abl - loc ordering for Latin, and so I continue to suffer. CecilWard (talk) 09:47, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Broken links to discussions[edit]

In Wiktionary there seem to be quite a few broken links to discussion pages, and no easy way to find the original target of those links. For example, at right there is a big banner at the top with a link "Please see the discussion on Requests for cleanup", but the link does not work. Supposing that the relevant content had been archived, I tried typing "right" into the "Search in the archives of Request for cleanup" box, but this produced nothing useful. I wonder if a better mechanism could be found to either prevent these links from breaking in the first place, or at least to make it easier to find the relevant entry in the archive. 20:54, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

That rfc was placed on 20 September 2011. If there was a discussion on WT:RFC, it probably has been moved to an archive by now. —Stephen (Talk) 02:50, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Module Errors at [edit]

This entry spontaneously develops module errors from time to time, and it's easy to see why: Etymology 4 says "Used as ateji in various names. 愛 is a very common element in many, many names.", which is followed by proper noun entries for 50 different names spelled with this character (not compounds- just the one character). If there's anything slowing the system down, all the module-execution time for the page has been used up before it gets to the 50th.

Is there any way to optimize these, given that we know the language and script and we don't need to add the same categories 50 times? I was thinking we could leave the first one alone, and have a bare-bones version for the other 49.

The wikitext of the first one, as an example (The only thing that changes is the hiragana- "あづみ" in this case) :
# {{given name|female|lang=ja|sort=あづみ}}
"Templates used in this section":
Template:given name
Module:script utilities
"Parser profiling data":
CPU time usage 0.232 seconds
Real time usage 0.248 seconds
Preprocessor visited node count 104/1000000
Preprocessor generated node count 0/1500000
Post-expand include size 1420/2097152 bytes
Template argument size 38/2097152 bytes
Highest expansion depth 5/40
Expensive parser function count 0/500
Lua time usage 0.207/10.000 seconds
Lua memory usage 1.45 MB/50 MB
Categories added by the wikitext in the section:
Category:Japanese lemmas
Category:Japanese proper nouns
Category:Japanese terms spelled with fourth grade kanji
Category:Japanese terms written with one Han script character
Category:Japanese terms spelled with 愛
Category:Japanese female given names
Category:Japanese single-kanji terms (hidden)

As far as I can figure out, the only non-redundant things that are being done:

  1. The hiragana is getting the standard Module:links treatment
    1. If the hiragana is a redlink, the link is accelerated for preloaded entry-creation
  2. The hiragana is being used to create a standard (Module:links) link to its romaji (romanization- "Azumi" in this case).

Category:Japanese female given names has a different sort key, but I seem to remember that a given page has only one sort key for a given category- so 49 of the 50 sort keys are ignored.

Thanks! Chuck Entz (talk) 23:44, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Do we know why only sometimes it produces module errors? Is it related to caching?
Knowing that more diverse and much larger page a only needs 3 seconds I think there's something wrong in the implementation of (probably) ja-pos.
Re for 1.1: if ja-pos really checks for the existence of the hiragana then that might be it.
Why not create a specialized {{ja-proper noun}} ?...--Dixtosa (talk) 13:12, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
I don't remember anyone having explained it, but I've noticed that such problems correlate with the generation of things like Special:WantedCategories. I suspect that competition from a process running in the background is increasing the time it takes for operations to complete, so that anything that's close to the 10-second limit is going to be pushed past it. Chinese-character pages, in general, are very module-intensive because many of the specialized modules have huge tables and do sophisticated things with the data. That gives less room for other operations, though I see from the parser stats that I just added above that this section alone takes more than 1/50 of the 10 seconds: if it weren't for the fact that some of that is shared rather than additive, it would run over every time. As for {{ja-proper noun}}, wouldn't it be doing the same check for the existence of hiragana? I was thinking of just hardcoding the , but there's the matter of script support and of the processing of the hiragana and romaji. I'm a little reluctant to create a specialized template just for one extreme entry, especially since I don't really edit Japanese entries except to fix obvious problems. Chuck Entz (talk) 15:15, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Default continuation mode for action=query will change soon; bots may be affected[edit]

As announced in Tech News, "the default continuation mode for action=query requests to api.php will be changing to be easier for new coders to use correctly" and some bots may need to be updated; the posting I link to suggests several seemingly simple fixes. - -sche (discuss) 01:01, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Missing space in malm[edit]

The wikitext has a space between the context label and the form of template: {{context|colloquial|lang=de}} {{de-verb form of|malmen|1|s|g}}. But the displayed text in the entry does not: (colloquial)First-person singular present of malmen. But the displayed text does have a space here: (colloquial) First-person singular present of malmen. What's going on? I am using Windows and see the issue in Firefox, Opera and Internet Explorer; I can provide more details if others aren't seeing the same issue. - -sche (discuss) 15:58, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Fixed. Apparently categories steal preceding spaces: foo [[Category:Sandbox]]bar = foobar. --WikiTiki89 17:47, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
What an interesting problem. Thanks for fixing it. - -sche (discuss) 18:00, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Adjective short form template sought[edit]

What's the right template or template call for Russian adjective short forms? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 08:25, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

If there is no {{ru-infl of}} or ({{ru-inflection of}}) then {{inflection of}} is the only other option. (Note: if this is not the case we should change that).
благоро́ден is defined as {{inflection of|благородный||m|short|lang=ru}} which produces: masculine short of благородный (blagorodnyj).
But something like this would be shorter (and better?): {{ru-infl of|благородный|short}}. Gender is guessable. --Dixtosa (talk) 13:30, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
Thank you. After posting the question I tried to rollback my edit, since I find the template but something happened with the rollback but I didn't notice that it wasn't rolled back. I've used it in интересно - {{inflection of|интере́сный||n|s|short form|lang=ru}}. I prefer the more detailed form, since it adds the gender. Ideally there should also be a category for short adjective forms. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 13:39, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Can we change the way this fucking page works?[edit]

You ever wrote a ten ton block of text which someone edit conflicted into? Then had to rewrite it again, for the same thing to happen once more? Not cool, innit? Is it technically possible that the page be changed so that the text you wrote is not obliterated when a conflict happens? Korn [kʰʊ̃ːæ̯̃n] (talk) 16:43, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

...? Don't you get a page that shows you both the text someone else wrote and your text, such that you can copy-and-paste your text rather than retyping it? (It should say something to the effect of "only the text in the top window will be saved", and if you scroll down, you'll see the diff between your revision and the other one, and then another edit window with your text in it.) - -sche (discuss) 16:54, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
I'll have to check my browser next time I have that trouble. If I should get that window, I've not noticed it in years of editing. Korn [kʰʊ̃ːæ̯̃n] (talk) 18:38, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
If you don't get such a window, let us know, because that would be quite a bug. (In fact, with a little co-ordination we could engineer some edit conflicts e.g. in the WT:SANDBOX for testing purposes]].) Also note Dixtosa's comment, which hilariously got edit-conflicted, that "Every self-respecting desktop browser saves all texts in all text areas of the previous page. So just going back should work." Edit conflicts are still frustrating, but it should be possible to recover any text you lose to them. - -sche (discuss) 18:49, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
Going back a page used to work for me in the past, but not today. Though, while trying to make another post on our German talk earlier today I also had my text booted due to "loss of session data", a first time event for me. Does that mean anything to you? Korn [kʰʊ̃ːæ̯̃n] (talk) 23:25, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
It sometimes happens to me that my edit is not saved due to loss of session data. It usually works to try saving it again. —Stephen (Talk) 23:29, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Script flags totally benign edit as "harmful" and "vandalism"[edit]

I just tried to edit "Talk:euphemism" in the following way:

There was a question reading:

Isn't a euphemism something like a [[meiosis]]? At least in the Netherlands, a euhpemism is often considered a antonym of [[hyperbole]] (even my teacher did it). Is it just bad education or is true? [[User:Mallerd|Mallerd]] 19:51, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

I changed that to:

Isn't a euphemism something like a [[meiosis]]? At least in the Netherlands, a euhpemism is often considered a antonym of [[hyperbole]] (even my teacher did it). Is it just bad education or is true? [[User:Mallerd|Mallerd]] 19:51, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
:It is true in the sense, that a euphemism is a meiosis of 'badness' or 'evilness'. - A special case of meiosis, if you will. --~~~~

in order to answer that question. And I gave the following summary in the summary field:

"meiosis <--> euphemism explained."

The system will not let me save this edit, but instead shows the following warning message:

Warning: This action has been automatically identified as harmful. Unconstructive edits will be quickly reverted, and egregious or repeated unconstructive editing will result in your account or IP address being blocked. If you believe this action to be constructive, you may submit it again to confirm it. A brief description of the abuse rule which your action matched is: probably vandalism. If you believe your edit was flagged in error, you may report it on the Wiktionary:Grease pit.

I can not understand how my contribution could be construed to be vandalism. - Please explain, or fix the script so that it doesn't accuse innocent, well-meaning people, who just want to help as vandals. :-( - So I am following the advice the warning message gave, and report it here.

Perhaps I should add, that I wanted to improve the euphemism and dysphemism pages by respectively synchronizing the "Examples" sections, but now am afraid of doing so, because I anticipate, that my effort will be in vain.

Respectfully, but saddened, -- 11:02, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure why your edit was flagged as harmful, but it seems all you had to do was re-submit it. --WikiTiki89 12:38, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
I tried that about half a dozen times, initially, suspecting just a 'hickup' somewhere. Then I tried changing punctuation, and triple-checked w/ the "differences" function, whether I had unintentionally deleted any preexisting text. - Then tried again five minutes later. - Then wrote the above message.
Now (meaning 60 seconds ago) I have tried to save the same change again, and it still doesn't work
Nonetheless I have been able to edit other articles. -- 12:56, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
I figured it out. It is picking up on the word "Hello" earlier on the page (which you didn't even add). @Kephir, can you fix this, since this is your filter? Not everybody who says "hello" is a vandal, anyway. --WikiTiki89 13:14, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
Thank you, WikiTiki89, for figuring this out. :) - You have made a simple wiktionarian very happy. :) -- 13:50, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
And, for now, I've commented out the offending "Hello", which should be restored once the filter is removed or revised. You should be able to make your contribution without further problem. I'll be that the filter is interested in "Hello" only for edits by anons. If you were to register (a good idea anyway) and login, I suspect you could even say "hello". DCDuring TALK 14:17, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
I think the fact that the "hello" filter is enabled for discussion pages is just an oversight. It was probably intended just for articles, where many vandals do add things like "hi". --WikiTiki89 14:37, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
@DCDuring: Thanks a lot. - However it's still not working. - Perhaps the filter is also allergic to the words "evilness" or "badness"? - And I have to admit that I do have an account. - I just don't have the credentials at hand right now (neither those for my e-mail), and don't want to create a "sockpuppet" or throw-away-account. - I also thought that this issue might be a stumbling block for very infrequent or first-time users also, or that something might be fundamentally broken. - (And besides: I have to admit that I enjoy editing anonymously once in a while, too.) -- 16:37, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
DCDuring seems to have had undone his changes before you tried it again. This time, just try removing the word "hello" together with your edit and if it succeeds, one of us will add it back. --WikiTiki89 16:54, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, I got distracted after checking to see whether I triggered the filter. That would not be likely for whitelisted users et al, but I had to check. DCDuring TALK 17:31, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

What is the point of making a filter private if you are just going to loudly talk over every of its conditions here? Fixed. Not saying how. Keφr 17:50, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Oops, I didn't think about that... but I didn't really reveal much. Thanks for fixing it. Also, see my addition to the filter notes. --WikiTiki89 18:00, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
To be fair, that filter mostly blocks vandalism by people of the sort which do not even bother to look at edit filters. So it probably matters little. Filters 31 and 32 (and 9, 22, and 23) should be rules-1-and-2-compliant, however. (Replied.) Keφr 18:32, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
Ok thanks. --WikiTiki89 18:39, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

How to deal with untranslatable English terms?[edit]

if even the closest translation is just too far from being close, I think shorter form of this "this has no equivalent in this language" would add value to the translation table. This will be useful in emptying translation requests-type of categories too. We can make the second parameter of {{t}} optional, or make a new temlate. Maybe {{notrans}}?--Dixtosa (talk) 16:43, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

There’s {{not used}} for a subset of these situations.
If we are to create {{notrans}}, how can we make sure it won’t be misused by people who simply weren’t able to find a translation? — Ungoliant (falai) 17:09, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
Not even some kind of circumlocution? Schadenfreude, often considered untranslatable, can be glossed into English as "happiness at another's troubles" (or more wordy expression). DCDuring TALK 17:39, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

no transliteration necessary in headword line[edit]

Sometimes no transliteration is necessary for a headword. E.g., [[ישב#Etymology 3]]. At some point, {{head}} (well, its underlying module) was edited so that it indicates "transliteration needed" if there's no transliteration. Can someone who knows Lua (I do not) please add in the ability to turn off this message with a template parameter (perhaps tr=[empty string] or a new parameter)? (Pinging Ruakh just because of a conversation we once had.)​—msh210 (talk) 05:26, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

This can already be done. --WikiTiki89 14:20, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
Ah, thanks.​—msh210 (talk) 18:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
Why is no transliteration necessary? —CodeCat 18:25, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
Not only unnecessary but undesirable, and here's why: There are two different forms there, neither of which is a lemma (nor even such that the other can really be said to be a form of it), and which have different transliterations, which are noted on the definition lines in the manner accepted at WT:T:AHE.​—msh210 (talk) 03:41, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
Then they should have separate POS sections and headword lines. —CodeCat 21:09, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
Discussion among the Hebrew editors has led to a conclusion opposite of what you've just put forth. (I can't find the bulk of that discussion, but some early parts of it are at [[User talk:Msh210/Archive/niqqud and excessive spellings, redux]], and the conclusion is mentioned at [[Wiktionary:Beer parlour/2011/June#Separate entries for reflexive verbs?]].) If you wish to argue for your conclusion (which you haven't done here), I invite you to do so at WT:T:AHE, but, for now, that's not the way it's being done.​—msh210 (talk) 16:28, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

class="vsSwitcher vsClass-pronunciations" no longer working?[edit]

<div class="vsSwitcher vsClass-pronunciations"> does not seem to be working any more, affecting templates such as {{grc-IPA}} and {{zh-forms}} which are now always expanded. Was there an edit that affected this function? Wyang (talk) 01:08, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I wasn't aware that this was even in use at all. —CodeCat 01:51, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
I fixed those two templates now. Are there any more? —CodeCat 01:54, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
Thanks! The only other module using it is Module:User:ZxxZxxZ/pronunciation, used by User:ZxxZxxZ/sandbox. Wyang (talk) 02:04, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Please make fixes to Module:languages/data3/a and Module:languages/data3/s[edit]

I don't have administrative privileges.

Could someone (@CodeCat, Wikitiki89, Atitarev etc.) please change the entries for the following languages in Module:languages/data3/a and Module:languages/data3/s to read as follows:

For Module:languages/data3/a:

m["abv"] = {
        canonicalName = "Baharna Arabic",
        otherNames = {"Bahrani Arabic"},
        type = "regular",
        scripts = {"Arab"},
        family = "sem-arb",
        entry_name = {
                from = {u(0x0671), u(0x064B), u(0x064C), u(0x064D), u(0x064E), u(0x064F), u(0x0650), u(0x0651), u(0x0652), u(0x0670), u(0x0640)},
                to   = {u(0x0627)}},

m["acq"] = {
        canonicalName = "Ta'izzi-Adeni Arabic",
        otherNames = {"Southern Yemeni Arabic"},
        type = "regular",
        scripts = {"Arab"},
        family = "sem-arb",
        entry_name = {
                from = {u(0x0671), u(0x064B), u(0x064C), u(0x064D), u(0x064E), u(0x064F), u(0x0650), u(0x0651), u(0x0652), u(0x0670), u(0x0640)},
                to   = {u(0x0627)}},

m["acw"] = {
        canonicalName = "Hijazi Arabic",
        otherNames = {"Hejazi Arabic", "West Arabian Arabic"},
        type = "regular",
        scripts = {"Arab"},
        family = "sem-arb",
        entry_name = {
                from = {u(0x0671), u(0x064B), u(0x064C), u(0x064D), u(0x064E), u(0x064F), u(0x0650), u(0x0651), u(0x0652), u(0x0670), u(0x0640)},
                to   = {u(0x0627)}},

m["aec"] = {
        canonicalName = "Saidi Arabic",
        otherNames = {"Sa'idi Arabic", "Upper Egyptian Arabic", "Upper Egypt Arabic"},
        type = "regular",
        scripts = {"Arab"},
        family = "sem-arb",
        entry_name = {
                from = {u(0x0671), u(0x064B), u(0x064C), u(0x064D), u(0x064E), u(0x064F), u(0x0650), u(0x0651), u(0x0652), u(0x0670), u(0x0640)},
                to   = {u(0x0627)}},

m["ars"] = {
        canonicalName = "Najdi Arabic",
        type = "regular",
        scripts = {"Arab"},
        family = "sem-arb",
        entry_name = {
                from = {u(0x0671), u(0x064B), u(0x064C), u(0x064D), u(0x064E), u(0x064F), u(0x0650), u(0x0651), u(0x0652), u(0x0670), u(0x0640)},
                to   = {u(0x0627)}},

m["avl"] = {
        canonicalName = "Eastern Egyptian Bedawi Arabic",
        otherNames = {"Bedawi Arabic", "Levantine Bedawi Arabic"},
        type = "regular",
        scripts = {"Arab"},
        family = "sem-arb",
        entry_name = {
                from = {u(0x0671), u(0x064B), u(0x064C), u(0x064D), u(0x064E), u(0x064F), u(0x0650), u(0x0651), u(0x0652), u(0x0670), u(0x0640)},
                to   = {u(0x0627)}},

m["ayh"] = {
        canonicalName = "Hadrami Arabic",
        otherNames = {"Hadhrami Arabic"},
        type = "regular",
        scripts = {"Arab"},
        family = "sem-arb",
        entry_name = {
                from = {u(0x0671), u(0x064B), u(0x064C), u(0x064D), u(0x064E), u(0x064F), u(0x0650), u(0x0651), u(0x0652), u(0x0670), u(0x0640)},
                to   = {u(0x0627)}},

m["ayn"] = {
        canonicalName = "Sanaani Arabic",
        type = "regular",
        scripts = {"Arab"},
        family = "sem-arb",
        entry_name = {
                from = {u(0x0671), u(0x064B), u(0x064C), u(0x064D), u(0x064E), u(0x064F), u(0x0650), u(0x0651), u(0x0652), u(0x0670), u(0x0640)},
                to   = {u(0x0627)}},

For Module:languages/data3/s:

m["sqr"] = {
        canonicalName = "Siculo-Arabic",
        type = "regular",
        scripts = {"None"},
        family = "sem-arb",

m["ssh"] = {
        canonicalName = "Shihhi Arabic",
        type = "regular",
        scripts = {"Arab"},
        family = "sem-arb",
        entry_name = {
                from = {u(0x0671), u(0x064B), u(0x064C), u(0x064D), u(0x064E), u(0x064F), u(0x0650), u(0x0651), u(0x0652), u(0x0670), u(0x0640)},
                to   = {u(0x0627)}},

m["shu"] = {
        canonicalName = "Chadian Arabic",
        type = "regular",
        scripts = {"Arab"},
        family = "sem-arb",
        entry_name = {
                from = {u(0x0671), u(0x064B), u(0x064C), u(0x064D), u(0x064E), u(0x064F), u(0x0650), u(0x0651), u(0x0652), u(0x0670), u(0x0640)},
                to   = {u(0x0627)}},

This puts these languages in line with other Arabic spoken languages that use the Arabic script, and adds alternative names in line with Wikipedia (and fixes the family for Siculo-Arabic).


Benwing (talk) 08:42, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

@Benwing Yes check.svg Done. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 09:06, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
@Atitarev Thanks! Benwing (talk) 08:18, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Undo and thank links in the recent changes?[edit]

Can these two options be added for each change in recent changes? It would be a lot less cumbersome than going to the diff all the time. It might make editors more inclined to use undo instead of rollback too, which is something a few people have complained about. —CodeCat 23:24, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Yes. How do you know if you should thank or undo without going to the diff? Do you use any inline diff tool?--Dixtosa (talk) 20:12, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
If one uses "Navigation popups" (called such in Prefs; historically called Lupin popups) one can hover over "diff" links to see them without actually clicking on them and leaving the page one is on. - -sche (discuss) 21:02, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
There should be a "like" button for every page and edit as well. Wyang (talk) 03:32, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Red "D" delete button no longer works in recent changes[edit]

The patrolling gadget's red "D" delete button no longer works; clicking it displays "notoken: The token parameter must be set". The blue "m" mark-as-patrolled button does work. - -sche (discuss) 00:30, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Can you point me to the gadget? What's its name? --Dixtosa (talk) 20:12, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
It's in prefs as "Patrolling enhancements – makes it faster and easier to mark edits as patrolled." Ruakh wrote it. - -sche (discuss) 21:02, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Edit filter to discourage edits to main WT:TR page[edit]

This has happened several times, albeit mostly from the same user under various IPs. Can we craft an edit filter to stop it? Protecting the page won't work because it affects how users can edit sections of the page (per the commentary in the page protection log). - -sche (discuss) 18:42, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

The "Edit" button is hidden on this page (WT:Grease pit) using JS I guess. So, do the same for Tea room and Beer parlour too.--Dixtosa (talk) 20:12, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
Hmmm. Not hidden for me. Sometimes I enjoy having admin privilege, if that's what it is. DCDuring TALK 16:17, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
It is hidden in Vector.--Dixtosa (talk) 16:36, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
I use Vector. I get a warning banner when the edit frame opens. I have not knowingly done anything to make that happen. DCDuring TALK 17:20, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
And un-hidden for sysops. Keφr 09:08, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
Added Special:AbuseFilter/43. Keφr 09:08, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

dump request: English nouns[edit]

Can someone please generate for me a list of all pages (or all ns0 pages) in category:English nouns and all its subcategories except English noun forms and English plurals? (That is, don't exclude something just because it's in English noun forms/plurals, if it's also in category:English nouns or a different subcat; but don't include it just because it's in English noun forms/plurals.) It can be from the most recent dump or from the live version.

I know of no tool that does this — CatScan grabs only [[]] categories, not templatized ones, and the API limits the number of results — and directing me to such a tool would be great instead of doing it for me, if one exists.

Thanks very much. I have to mention that this will be for my personal use rather than for the betterment of enwikt.​—msh210 (talk) 19:45, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

AWB can do that. Yes 238 thousand is too many but still probably the easiest solution. I have queried Category:Spanish lemmas (38,306 entries) it was pretty waitable. --Dixtosa (talk) 20:12, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the advice. I downloaded AWB and attempted the task just for category:English nouns. (I don't see that there's a way to include only some subcats, so I figured I'd do them one by one, though of course it's not ideal.) When it told me "List complete!" and stopped working, the list had but 24998 entries on it (and when I saved the list to a file, the file, too, had only 24998 entries), even though the category reports that it has 238412 entries. (Granted, I omitted non-ns0 pages from the AWN list whereas the category includes them, but that obviously doesn't account for all the difference.) It seems AWB conked out after blockmaker (or doesn't like blockmaking). I don't see anything in w:'s AWB manual about curtailed results. Does anyone have advice on how to make AWB work with large categories, or a non-AWB solution for me?​—msh210 (talk) 21:22, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
I use Python scripts with Pywikibot for this kind of thing. I could show you how, if you would like that. It takes some learning, but the sky is the limit once you get it. —CodeCat 21:34, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
Oh, I used to use pywikipediabot (as it was called then IIRC) and stopped when the version I had stopped working and the new version I downloaded wouldn't work either (IIRC). I taught it to myself the first time and can do so again, presumably, but thank you for the offer. On the other hand, if it's really easy to run this script and someone's willing to do so for me….  :-) ​—msh210 (talk) 05:03, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
Teach a Wiktionarian to fish, and all that... —CodeCat 13:16, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
Maybe this AWB plugin, for large categories w:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/NoLimits plugin? -- Curious (talk) 18:19, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
Thank you.​—msh210 (talk) 06:07, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
You can also request an account on the Tool Labs to have access to a replicate of the current Wiktionary database. From there you can make any kind of request in SQL to get what you want. This requires to know a bit about command-line and SQL queries though. — Dakdada 13:15, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the suggestion. However, since, as I said, I'll be using it for my own purposes, it doesn't seem right to request an account there.​—msh210 (talk) 14:51, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
You can pay MW back later, by using your honed skills more directly for project benefit. DCDuring TALK 16:15, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
Actually, I realize that the list of categories I specified above isn't precisely what I need, so, on the off chance that someone is actually thinking of doing this for me, don't. (I'm doing it via pywiki.) But thank you.​—msh210 (talk) 17:29, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
I got as far as putting this Python script together, using the API (it's hard to use the dumps for this, because of the template issue). May or may not be useful; I have always found pywiki somewhat enraging to work with. ;-) -- Visviva (talk) 17:40, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
Thank you. I myself tried category.py listify -from:English_nouns, but kept getting HTTP 5xx and other errors for reasons unknown to me.​—msh210 (talk) 22:59, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Language code for Dothraki[edit]

We now have two entries derived from this constructed language (Dothraki, the name of the language itself, and Khaleesi, a title used as a girl's name). Should it now have its own language code? Two other constructed languages in Category:English terms derived from constructed languages (Black Speech, Klingon) with just two entries have their own language codes. Maybe "dki?" That doesn't seem to be in use. -Cloudcuckoolander (talk) 02:09, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

It's never a good idea to hijack unused codes for languages- they tend to eventually get assigned other languages by the ISO. We would need to create a code starting with "art-", as we did with Black Speech ("art-bsp"). If you're wondering why the code for Klingon isn't like that, it's because it was actually assigned by the ISO. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:33, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
Are we even sure it is a constructed language rather than merely a fictional one? Does it exist beyond some staple words? Korn [kʰʊ̃ːæ̯̃n] (talk) 09:40, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
There isn't much of it in the books, but in the TV series (I believe starting with the second season), they have entire conversations in it. According to Wikipedia, "As of September 2011, the language comprised 3,163 words, not all of which have been made public." I'm not sure how sophisticated the grammar is. --WikiTiki89 14:36, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
It's a fully functional conlang, and many people other than David Peterson, its creator, are perfectly capable of composing poetry and other extended texts in it. We should certainly have a code, something along the lines of art-dth. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 18:30, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
It makes sense that they've had to develop Dothraki into a functional language when they're scripting entire scenes in it. There's only so far they could have gone with just writing random exotic-sounding gibberish. I think people are often able to discern structure even when they can't discern meaning; that is, they can tell a foreign language they don't understand from gibberish.
Anyway, I support using "art-dth", "art-dki", or something similar as an internal language code for Dothraki. -Cloudcuckoolander (talk) 20:34, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
I was thinking "art-dtk", in case we don't have enough suggestions... --WikiTiki89 21:01, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
I don’t think we accept any new constructed languages, only the older major ones. For one thing, I believe that Dothraki is copyrighted. See discussion at Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/2014/July#Inclusion_of_Dothraki. —Stephen (Talk) 09:55, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
It can be put into Module:etymology language/data, then. Keφr 10:18, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
The Beer Parlour discussion above led to a removal of Tolkien's languages and I'm not sure if the idea was right. Weren't they not made as integral part of his literature, but the other way round? He initially was mainly a conlanger who made some literature in his languages, to put them to some use, innit? It seems more useful to me if we just keep all the potentially copyrighted languages until somebody actually complains. We might encounter lenience or even benevolence and even if someone tells us to take it down, then we just take it down and that's that. Or am I missing something? Korn [kʰʊ̃ːæ̯̃n] (talk) 10:41, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Lowercase option for {{wikipedia}} template[edit]

In this discussion, User:Brantmeierz pointed out that the {{wikipedia}} template on zdotu'a links to the wrong page on the Lojban Wikipedia. Page titles on the Lojban Wikipedia are case-sensitive, and because {{wikipedia}} automatically capitalizes the first letter of the title, the link goes to w:jbo:Zdotu'a instead of w:jbo:zdotu'a.

After looking at the template documentation, I can't find a way to address this. I would appreciate it if someone familiar with template syntax could edit the template to add an optional parameter that keeps the title lowercase. Thank you. —Mr. Granger (talkcontribs) 15:05, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Third person plural past forms of Estonian verbs[edit]

I hope this is the correct place to say this. The third person plural past forms of Estonian verbs are conjugated wrong in Wiktionary. The form is always the same as the second person singular past form. The verb 'to speak' is rääkima in Estonian. If you want to say "they spoke", it is nad rääkisid, but the conjugation table says "rääkisivad" instead of the correct "rääkisid".

The present tense ending for the third person is -vad, but the "va" is dropped when forming the past and also the conditional, which is currently conjugated correctly in Wiktionary. The same way, the -b suffix of the third person singular does not appear in past nor conditional, hence although "s/he speaks" is ta räägib (not *ta rääg) in Estonian, if you want to say s/he spoke, it is ta rääkis and not *ta rääkisib.

Could anyone fix this? The -va- in third person plural past forms of Estonian verbs should be dropped, leaving the same form as second person singular. 15:46, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

I've fixed it now. I've tried to improve our coverage of Estonian in the past, but I'm not an Estonian speaker so I've had to rely on whatever information I'm able to gather. If you know Estonian well, your help in improving things would be much appreciated! —CodeCat 15:59, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Need help for sortable table[edit]

Hi, I made a sortable table and I needed to uses some html code to be able to have different background & script colour in headers. But now the arrow are invisible, but I can sort the column... What to do to have them back ?

Also I want to know if it possible to have underline for all the links automatically insides the table without adding "ins" "/ins" or "u" "/u" to each words but with a code in table condition ? Because of the colour of the background the blue of the link is not very visible, so I use "font color""/font" but then we can't see that these terms are link... So I want automatic underline for the link in the table, can someone help ? Thank

Mangêzd (talk) 14:38, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

July 2015

Kott (Yeniseian) conjugation table(s)[edit]

Hi, I added a conjugation table to at least two Kott language articles a while ago, and now I'm wondering how to replace my wikitext (a raw table) with one or more conjugation templates for the Kott language. Jackwolfroven (talk) 20:05, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

I've created {{zko-conj}} and replaced the raw table on afu-ākŋ with the template. Is this what you meant? DTLHS (talk) 20:19, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, thanks. If I get more information about the language (for example if I learn of regular conjugation classes), may I edit the template? Jackwolfroven (talk) 20:48, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
Of course. DTLHS (talk) 20:50, 2 July 2015 (UTC)