Wiktionary:Grease pit

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Wiktionary > Discussion rooms > Grease pit

Welcome to the Grease pit!

This is an area to complement the Beer parlour and Tea room. Its purpose is specifically for discussing the future development of the English Wiktionary, both as a dictionary and as a website.

The Grease pit is a place to discuss technical issues such as templates, Lua modules, CSS, JavaScript, the MediaWiki software, extensions to it, the toolserver, etc. It is also a place to think in non-technical ways about how to make the best free and open online dictionary of “all words in all languages”.

Others have understood this page to explain the “how” of things, while the Beer parlour addresses the “why”.

Permanent notice

  • Tips and tricks about customization or personalization of CSS and JS files are listed at WT:CUSTOM.
  • Other tips and tricks are at WT:TAT.
  • Find information and helpful links about modules, Lua in general, and the Scribunto extension at WT:LUA.
  • Everyone is encouraged to expand both pages, or to come up with more such stuff. Other known pages with “tips-n-tricks” are to be listed here as well.

Grease pit archives edit

December 2020

An issue adding Piedmontese words with translation-adding gadget[edit]

I'm not sure what's taking so long to add Piedmontese words (not requests for translations, mind you) to the section for translations.

As a result, I have to add the words manually after adding the request. What's causing the issue? --Apisite (talk) 03:13, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

@Atitarev What do you think? --Apisite (talk) 14:55, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
@Apisite: I can confirm it's happening but I don't know why. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 21:57, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

Desctree template pulling in the wrong Alternative forms[edit]

Hi ! If you look at the Old English Descendants at *auhaim you will see that it pulls in "Old English: ēam, eom, æm". Only the first is correct and comes from Etymology 1 at eam/ēam. The other two are from Etymology 2. I know we can block showing the Alternative forms, and this would seem to be a quick fix, but what if we wanted to show the Alternative forms and there were multiple Etymologies ? Can someone please take a look at this ? Leasnam (talk) 07:30, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

I think at this point you'd have to add them manually. —Mahāgaja · talk 09:16, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, we sadly don't have an |id= param in {{desc}} or {{desctree}}. --{{victar|talk}} 09:55, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
Ok, thank you ! Leasnam (talk) 21:35, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

New changes not displaying at tabula[edit]

There is an RFV discussion about tabula, according to which Kiwima added several definitions and citations. However, the current entry, at least for me, looks like this. I was confused, so I looked at the preceding revisions. The second last revision looks like [1]. I then compared the last revision with the second last one, and saw that it didn't show any deletions. I then clicked "Edit" and found that everything was there. I saved the edit, but I'm still presented with the old version of the entry. Any idea what might cause this? I'll try clearing my cache to see if that fixes it, but it seems odd to me that that would be necessary. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 20:24, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

I cleared my cache, which logged me out. I was able to see the latest version, but it reverted to the old version when I logged back in. Any thoughts? Andrew Sheedy (talk) 20:27, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

My big gay abuse filter[edit]

I don't think there's ever a reason for the words "ur" or "gay" to appear in a heading in the main namespace. Disallowing them or restricting them to confirmed accounts would deter some vandalism. Disallowing /^[^*=#:].*gay/ also should be helpful (that is, gay not preceded by a list marker or indent marker and not in a template argument). Vox Sciurorum (talk) 20:54, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

We could put a lot else in that filter while we're at it, like fuck and shit and other curse words that would obviously not be used in headers in any meaningful way. PseudoSkull (talk) 21:19, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
We could also put a restriction on L3+ headings to be from a predefined set of heading names. Maybe we are doing that already? Dixtosa (talk) 21:34, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
There is a filter that requires an initial capital letter and a bot that corrects common errors. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 10:46, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
I don't know what the Hiligaynon editors would think of that. Returning2stadia (talk) 23:29, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
I meant gay as a word and not just as a three character sequence, /\bgay\b/ if you're using a regular expression format that supports \b. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 00:03, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Syntax of proverbs (letter case and dot)[edit]

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do." vs "when in Rome, do as the Romans do" A proverb is a complete sentence so it should begin with an uppercase letter and end with a dot, shouldn't it? Many other wiktionaries do so, and the fact that EN wiktionary doesn't causes trouble and mess there. I have 2 proposals:

  • (preferable) move all proverbs to pagenames that begin with an uppercase letter and end with a dot
  • (less good but better than nothing) create suitable redirects as I did with When in Rome, do as the Romans do. (I got 17'000'000 aggressive warnings when creating that page)
  • find some other solution for interwiki linking of proverbs

Taylor 49 (talk) 04:48, 3 December 2020 (UTC) (edited Taylor 49 (talk) 08:11, 3 December 2020 (UTC))

It may be true that they are often complete sentences, but they can also be used in the middle of sentences or with other punctuation than a period (e.g. As they say, when in Rome, do as the Romans do!). The capitalization and period are not really part of the phrase, any more than they are in a word like why, which is usually capitalized and at the beginning of the sentence. In other words, "why" might be more frequently capitalized than uncapitalized, but that doesn't have to do with the word itself. Likewise, the capital and period in "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." are not features of the expression itself. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 06:12, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
You have to some degree a point with that. I don't know whether "why" is more frequently used separately than part of a sentence (this is the question, not the capitalization).
  • A: I sold my car. B: Why?! (separate use)
  • Why did you sell your car? (used as part of a sentence, although capitalized)
  • I do not know why you sold your car. (used as part of a sentence, not capitalized)
I uphold the claim that "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." cannot reasonably become part of a longer sentence, as opposed to the word "why". In your example "As they say, when in Rome, do as the Romans do!" it is more or less a perfect quotation equivalent to <<As they say: "When in Rome, do as the Romans do!">>. You can always replace a dot by an exclamation mark! Has this already been discussed, or is there a rule about this (apart from the rule that lemmas shall not be capitalized for no reason)? Taylor 49 (talk) 08:09, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
This is covered at Wiktionary:English entry guidelines#Phrases. Not that that implies the policy is a good one, but I agree with it. First, any sentence can be turned into a larger one, e.g. "Because, when in Rome, do as the Romans do, that's why." Second, if you say longer proverbs should be capitalized then where you you draw the line? It's better to have a simple policy that easy to apply then to create potential arguments and revert wars on the edge cases. --RDBury (talk) 22:52, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
I see. On SV wiktionary we have a rule that all proverbs that are sentences need uppercase at begin and dot at end. The rule is hard but not very detailed. IMHO it should apply to all proverbs that are sentences, not only the "longer ones" (as RDBury suspects). Maybe even no pain, no gain because it is usually used separately with same meaning as "No paint results in no gain." that is a sentence. OTOH "rain cats and dogs" is ultimately not a sentence since it lacks a subject, thus "Rain cats and dogs." would be silly. Avoiding edge cases is good of course. But isn't the language full of such anyway? Is there a solution for interwiki linking between EN and SV wiktionaries? Would it be tolerable to create redirects such as from "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." to "when in Rome, do as the Romans do" for all proverbs existing on other wiktionaries with the other style? Is there a better solution? Taylor 49 (talk) 10:44, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
I think redirects would work well. Another category that usually involves capitalization and punctuation is interjections. Usually those function as stand-alone words, followed by an exclamation mark. Yet I don't think it would make sense to capitalize them in our entries. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 16:09, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
After further having thought about the issue I now realize the benefits of the system on this wiki. Discarding the puctuation at the end prevents a dilemma "dot or exclam", particularly for greeting and wishing phrases (for example "Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year." vs "Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!" -> Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year). But then, consequently, one should discard even the punctuation inside sentences, to prevent possible dilemmas between comma, semicolon, dash (one of 17'000'000 possible unicode dashes) and nothing: "when in Rome do as the Romans do". Maybe alternative punctuation in not very plausible in this proverb, but in other proverbs and sentences it is, even in other languages. Taylor 49 (talk) 07:21, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Oddity Captured by Abuse Filter[edit]

Would someone familiar with the Wikimedia api take a look at the abuse log for (talkcontribswhoisdeleted contribsnukeedit filter logblockblock logactive blocksglobal blocks)? There's a redlink that looks like something a misconfigured bot would leave. Chuck Entz (talk) 07:31, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Remove linking of transliterations[edit]

Can someone please remove the horrible linking of transliterations in brackets for Cyrillic-based languages in Appendix:Slavic Swadesh lists? Thank you in advance! --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 23:29, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

@Atitarev: The transcriptions are red, but it's not redlinks, rather because the parentheses are formatted with class="error", which displays as red. This presumably is caused by the "node count exceeded" error on that page. Because of that error, apparently the normal HTML formatting of the link annotations is changed so that they appear red. — Eru·tuon 00:27, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
@Erutuon: Thank you! It's a pity another large page is in error.--Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 00:33, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
If the only problem is the node count limit, then splitting the page based on the existing sections should fix the problem. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 13:33, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
I moved parts VII, VIII, IX, and X to subpages. The formatting is better now. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 12:03, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
@Atitarev, Vox Sciurorum, Erutuon: I've converted the Swadesh lists to use Module:Swadesh. It is easier to maintain. – فين أخاي (talk) 07:28, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
@Fenakhay: Hi. Did you actually see what happened to Cyrillic based languages in Appendix:Slavic Swadesh lists? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 09:56, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
@Atitarev: Only the Latin transliteration is shown for ease of comparison (It is enabled with |translit=1). — فين أخاي (talk) 10:12, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
@Fenakhay: Well, this is wrong and I oppose this change. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 11:20, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
I agree that showing them in transliteration is a bad idea. The columns for cu, bg, mk, and all the East Slavic languages should be displayed in Cyrillic. (I don't mind if sh is displayed only in Latin.) I've edited the page to do that. —Mahāgaja · talk 11:32, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

requesting help about displaying split verb forms in Hungarian[edit]

I've created test copies of these templates for some new conjugation features to be added, {{hu-conj-ok-test}}, {{hu-conj-test}}, {{hu-conj-unified-test}}, and {{hu-conj-unified-test/doWork-test}}. I succeeded with one feature, potential forms. However, I can't cope with the other, displaying split verb forms (or at least linking these forms in a hidden table so that they can be found by "what links here", e.g. jeleníthették […… meg] (they may have displayed it) should be automatically linked from the conjugation table of the verb megjelenít (to display)). The verbal prefix is consistently separated in the imperative and it may also be separated in other moods, depending on syntax (e.g. after a focused element, or even before the verb if something is wedged in). Comparable forms are not only linked but they were even created as entries for German (cf. ausgehen) and it would be useful to link them in Hungarian as well. (A verb form doesn't always give information on whether it is actually separable and if so, where, e.g. belehel is parsed as be- + lehel but belehal as bele- + hal.)

In the entry of the verb kihúz (to pull out), the following calls the existing conjugation table: {{hu-conj-ok|kih|ú|z}} (since the last vowel and consonant determine the suffixes). However, as it contains the prefix ki-, I'd like to use this format: {{hu-conj-ok-test|kih|ú|z|pref=ki}} so that the form "húzok ki" (linked separately) should be generated and diplayed, based on the existing form kihúzok (marked as "7" below, the first-person singular present indicative) and so on for every form (including potential forms), that is,

  • an ellipsis sign,
  • the right-side part of the given string (linked) starting at character number "prefl" + 1 ("prefix length") counted from the left (perhaps with this)
  • a space,
  • and the first "prefl" number of characters, linked to the hyphenated form like [[ki-|ki]].

Apparently, it should be a piece of cake for someone who knows Lua but I don't, so I've been just trying to put together pieces. I tentatively created {{hu-split}} (with no content for the moment; though maybe it should be a module instead), inserted {{hu-split|{{{7}}}|prefl}} and the following five persons at the bottom of {{hu-conj-test}}, and inserted |prefl = {{#string.len({{{pref}}})}} in {{hu-conj-ok-test}}, but honestly, I'm stuck. Please help. Adam78 (talk) 15:16, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

@Adam78: I just looked at your message, not the code, but the string length code should be |prefl = {{#invoke:string|len|{{{pref}}}}}. Not sure if that is the only problem. — Eru·tuon 20:21, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

@Erutuon thank you, it must be a step forward, but unfortunately it's not working yet; something is still missing (or wrong). Adam78 (talk) 23:26, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

@Erutuon I entered something in {{Module:hu-split}} that might resemble what I intended to be done (and I think I invoked it properly) but {{hu-conj-test}} is not even willing to notice that this module has come into being, let alone execute it. What do you think may need to be fixed now? Adam78 (talk) 22:06, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

@Adam78: The first problem is that Module:hu-split is wikitext because you created it as Template:hu-split. It needs to be Lua code and it only ends up as Lua code when you create it in the Module namespace. The second problem is that your code is in the top level of the module; it needs to be in a function in a table returned by the module. I think I see what you're intending to do with the module so I've fixed it. — Eru·tuon 22:43, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

@Erutuon Thank you very much. (I'm sorry I messed with the module text before you completed it; I didn't know you were working on it.) I think now we're really just a hair's breadth from success: "prefl" should receive the length of the given prefix, so that it can be reused in all successive "hu-split" invokes. I don't know why it doesn't get that value or where and how it should be defined. Adam78 (talk) 23:04, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

@Erutuon Calculating the length of the prefix 120 times on every verb page may not be the most economical solution, but this was the only way I managed to do it since "prefl" didn't work. If we put it aside, the only remaining problem is that the length of a string is calculated differently if it contains an accented letter, e.g. [[kihúztak]] is 13 characters long, while [[kihúzták]] is 14 characters (I inserted this figure before each value for debugging). I added a conditional with a comprehensive list of accented endings (with the bracket "]") so that the string should be supplemented with an extra character in all remaining cases (to fit the operation in the next line) but there is some syntax error. Now this "hu-split" works fine in half the cases (or if I subtract "4" instead of "3", then it works in the other half of the cases). In fact, this lengthy conditional is not good also because some verbs happen to have an ending that coincides with a suffix. I tried it on megcsinál by entering {{hu-conj-ok-test|megcsin|á|l|pref=meg}} and it's a mess. It'd be better to find a way for a Unicode-friendly calculation of length but the way I tried didn't work out. (Working 5 hours on this stupid matter alone has been more than enough for a day.) Could you possibly help me make it actually functional? Now it's already 90% done, I think. Adam78 (talk) 11:10, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

@Adam78, Erutuon Is it necessary to use Lua? All the conjugation templates are wikitext. I have an idea but not sure how to implement it. What if instead of adding a new named parameter (pref) we simply separate the prefix and that would supply an unnamed parameter? Using the above example: {{hu-conj-ok-test|meg|csin|á|l}}. I realize that this will require a change in all existing instances. Panda10 (talk) 17:10, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
@Panda10, Erutuon, I like this idea; it's much neater than a parameter. Of course, I don't insist at all on using Lua. I suppose this way we could have {{hu-conj-ök-test|be|t|ű|z}} (“to pin sth. in, to shine in”) and {{hu-conj-ök-test||bet|ű|z}} (“to spell”), although this test template hasn't been created for front-vowel verbs. I need to think more about its implementation. I'm not sure it would be simpler (all things considered) than finishing the rest of the above, but its execution may well be faster. Adam78 (talk) 17:25, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

arc-noun template error and lacking documentation[edit]

I added an Aramaic noun entry at


using the arc-noun template. I tried to use it the same as the he-noun template.

But it renders with a "?"

The documentation here says it needs documenation, and links to another location where doc is also missing.


Nissimnanach (talk) 14:25, 8 December 2020 (UTC)Nissimnanach

If you hover your cursor over the question mark you'll see that it needs a gender, which would be the first parameter. The second parameter would be the plural, which can have a transliteration using |tr2= There's no wv parameter- use |head= instead. If there's a different form for the opposite gender, use |f= or |m=. That's the basics of what I can figure out from the template code. It looks like you can have multiple heads and multiple plurals, but I won't go into that unless you really need it. Chuck Entz (talk) 15:15, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Login prompt[edit]

When you go to log into Wiktionary, you see the text at MediaWiki:Loginprompt:

You must have cookies enabled to log in to Wiktionary.

If you want to use your account from another wiki here and on all the wikis listed below, click on the relevant link:

Meta-Wiki, MediaWiki, Wikibooks, Wikimedia Commons, Wikimedia Incubator, Wikinews, Wikipedia, Wikiquote, Wikisource, Wikispecies, Wikiversity.

If you wish to use your Wiktionary account elsewhere, visit Special:MergeAccount after logging in.

For quite a few years now, merging accounts has been irrelevant; all accounts on this wiki automatically work on all other wikis, and all accounts are merged. Is there a willing administrator who could delete all but the first sentence of this message? This, that and the other (talk) 09:51, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 19:44, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Affix categorytree templates broken[edit]

Uses on -gamous or any other page no long are expandable. I don't see any recent changes to our templates. It works if the parser function is invoked directly: {{#categorytree:English words suffixed with -gamous|depth=0|mode=pages}} DTLHS (talk) 03:33, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

text formatting oddity with {{link}} and {{mention}}[edit]

... when the [[呉音#Japanese|go'on]] reading of ''Wa'' became more common.

produces ->

... when the go'on reading of Wa became more common.


... when the {{l|ja|呉音|go'on}} reading of ''Wa'' became more common.

produces ->

... when the go'on reading of Wa became more common.

It appears that {{l}}, as well as {{m}}, {{l-self}} and {{m-self}}, applies the specified language's format for the display text even if the display text is overridden to not be in that language. Is this intentional behavior? What is the best practice in this situation? 04:01, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

{{ll}}. —Suzukaze-c (talk) 21:28, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Wikiversity logo on Main Page[edit]

Wikiversity changed logo to File:Wikiversity logo 2017.svg a few years ago, however the main page still uses the old one (transcluded from Template:sisterprojects). GreenComputer (talk) 05:10, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Yes check.svg DoneΜετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 21:48, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

Warning about Aramaic scripts[edit]

Editing iron/translations I see a warning

script code (Hebr) for language code arc not found in Module:translit-redirect/data; text: פרזלא
script code (Syrc) for language code arc not found in Module:translit-redirect/data; text: ܦܪܙܠܐ

generated by the code

* Aramaic:
*: Hebrew: {{t|arc|פרזלא|m|tr=parzlā, parzlo}}
*: Syriac: {{t|arc|ܦܪܙܠܐ|m|tr=parzlā, parzlo}}

Vox Sciurorum (talk) 20:38, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

I'm not getting any error message there, even with the edit window open. —Mahāgaja · talk 21:35, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
@Vox Sciurorum: The Lua log message was added by Module:translit-redirect just for debugging purposes so that people can find text that is not being transliterated and is not in a script listed for that language in Module:translit-redirect/data, so you can ignore it, or it can be disabled for all cases in this particular language and script with an edit like this. — Eru·tuon 21:40, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

Keeping nested NavFrames collapsed[edit]

I’m trying to add participle declension tables enclosed in a NavFrame to a verb conjugation table also enclosed in a NavFrame, but I don’t want the participles to expand as soon as a reader opens the verb table (otherwise the table bloats at once across the entire page). Is there a simple way to keep the inner NavFrames collapsed until the user specifically clicks on them, even if the outer NavFrame is expanded? Or maybe even some better way to go about the entire thing? (Yeah, yeah, I really oughtta rewrite it in Lua…) — Vorziblix (talk · contribs) 05:28, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Transliterate single words in a usage example differently from automated[edit]

Is there a way to transliterate a single word differently in a longer usage example {{ux}} or quotation {{quote-book}} when a substitution FROM//TO is not possible (e.g. like |subst=шоссе́//шоссэ́)?

Russian examples may all be covered by phonetic respellings but I can't use all these this tricks for Arabic where some letters don't exist, e.g. "e". For example, the English female name Meg, may be written in Arabic as مِيغ(mīḡ) and needs to be transliterated as "meg", Jo or Joe may be written in Arabic as جُو() and needs to be transliterated as "jou". E.g., I can replace غ with گ to produce "g" but I can't produce "e" or "o", etc. (there's no native way):

قَالَت مِيغ...‎‎ ― qālat mīg...Meg said ...

I can use, of course a manual transliteration, which is fine for a short sentence:

قَالَت مِيغ...‎‎ ― qālat meg...Meg said ...

@Benwing2, Erutuon, Fenakhay, Fay Freak: Can you help and what do you think? Is there a way? Can the templates be enhanced to allow partial transliterations? Or some other tricks could be used to replace automated letters with wanted letters? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 01:03, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

@Atitarev: You can directly substitute it with the desired transliteration like so |subst=ميغ/meg. — فين أخاي (تكلم معاي · ما ساهمت) 05:19, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
@Fenakhay: This is great, thank you! I was going to suggest a new parameter - |trsubst=mīg/meg but it's not required. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 05:34, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
@Atitarev: I just want to remind you that not all pronunciations are possible. The pronunciation /d͡ʒou/ is impossible in Arabic, it would be instead pronounced as /d͡ʒo(ː)/ or /d͡ʒu(ː)/فين أخاي (تكلم معاي · ما ساهمت) 05:25, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
@Fenakhay: I have a recording by a Saudi woman who pronounces Jo as /d͡ʒou/. I guess it's almost like code-switching, since foreign names, especially English are often pronounced as they are originally. All depends on the English knowledge, preferences, region, etc. Let's see how many pronunciation varieties we can hear of w:Joe Biden on various (standard) Arabic media. I don't mind using the default for جُو() but in the real Arabic media it may not be the case. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 05:34, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Ellipsis template is transcribed badly in modern Greek[edit]


2020, Alphabet:
άλφα []
álfa []
a []
-500, Alphabet:
ἄλφα []
álpha []
a []

(I haven't been able to figure out how to make subst work properly in the forums, so the above will change if the problem is fixed.) Vox Sciurorum (talk) 15:26, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Stringmatching a WhatLinksHere page doesn't work?[edit]

When I write {{#invoke:string|match|{{:Special:WhatLinksHere/høste}}|harvest||||Nope!}}, it gives me Nope!, even though harvest definitely shows up on the page. Why is this?__Gamren (talk) 16:44, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

@Gamren: Yeah, Lua can't see the resulting wikitext from {{Special:WhatLinksHere/høste}}. It sees something like '"`UNIQ--item-1--QINU`"' (with delete characters in it). As far as I know, there isn't any way to view the contents of that page in Lua without basically copying and pasting them into a regular wiki page. — Eru·tuon 21:33, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
@Erutuon Hm... does subst only work with templates?__Gamren (talk) 23:24, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
@Gamren: No, substing works with modules too, but if you could get at the output of {{Special:WhatLinksHere/høste}} with substing, you could get at it in Lua with frame.expandTemplate, and I think they decided not to let Lua have access to the content of various special pages and parser functions. — Eru·tuon 05:37, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Remove requests for translation from translingual usage examples[edit]

Example (should be in “Translingual terms with usage examples” not “English terms …” but changing to {{ux|mul}} adds a request for translation):

: :

  1. In some social networks and forums, generates an emoji.
    :ok_hand: = 👌
    (please add an English translation of this usage example)

J3133 (talk) 00:18, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

See this line in Module:usex: elseif lang:getCode() ~= "en" and lang:getCode() ~= "und" then. (I don't have permission to edit the module.) You can also use t=- but that puts the page in a category. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 13:04, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Or |termlang= can be added because not all usage examples for translingual terms are translingual. J3133 (talk) 13:12, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Translation adder when using undo or redo and nesting adds terms to wrong places[edit]

So what I did at germander, I added Serbo-Croatian terms in Latin spellings nested under Serbo-Croatian/Latin, and when adding Cyrillc spellings, too, I pressed undo out of confusion but then redo. Somewhen later I noticed, in the preview already, that script nesting of the Cyrillic was gone, but I saved anyway because it would be easier to fix after saving as I had translated to some other languages. After saving I also noticed that the Serbo-Croatian Latin spelling terms were nested under Latin – I said “Kurdish” in the fixing edit but it is more closely Latin, and I suspect it is some variable naming conflict. In the Hebrew part I added the word first but then undid and added again with niqqud, but the translation adder saved both, not as in the preview. I had a similar case three months ago at globe thistle when I clearly saved a term as Uzbek/Cyrillic, methinks even in the preview, but afterwards I discovered that it was entered as an additional line under Azerbaijani. I surely also used undo and redo functions then, and I know that such functions are often implemented incompletely or incorrectly in software. Fay Freak (talk) 11:19, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Add auto-categorization of hybridism to Module:compound[edit]

Currently, Module:compound is set up so that the templates that are based on it accept |langN= as parameters. This allows for the parts referenced by the templates to have their relevant languages individually identified, an example of which is in the etymology section of "vexillology". Is someone willing to add logic to Module:compound so that when a language code passed to an instance of |langN= differs from that passed to |1= or another instance of |langN= the page is put into a sub-category of Category:Hybridisms by language that corresponds to the language code passed to |1=? Interestingly, Category:Hybridisms by language currently has only one sub-category, Category:English hybridisms. Many thanks! —The Editor's Apprentice (talk) 00:18, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

{{label} treats "literal(ly)" and "figurative(ly)" inconsistently

"Literal" is coerced to the adverbial form "literally", while "figuratively" is coerced to the adjectival form "figurative". This results in awkward (possibly grammatically incorrect) phrasing when the two are used together. These two contexts should be normalized such that they use the same PoS.

{{lb|en|literal|and|figurative}} becomes (literally and figuratively)


{{lb|en|literally|and|figuratively}} becomes (literally and figuratively)

-- 03:35, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

I've changed figurative to figuratively.__Gamren (talk) 23:24, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

sleep is corrupt[edit]

Two recent edits to sleep have somehow incorporated a duplication of most of the English entry in a translation table, which hides the remainder of the page. Having worked out what had gone wrong, I started comparing the versions and removing the duplication. But the current version does not contain a translation table for the computing sense, which is what the edits of two days ago were intended to add. I don't know where they went. I am reluctantly giving up and palming this onto someone else to fix, for fear of deleting more than I should. --Hiztegilari (talk) 10:02, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

I've reverted the changes, it looked very messed up, probably easier to re-apply the changes. – Jberkel 10:55, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
This is very interesting. Another error from the translation adder. Fay Freak (talk) 11:37, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Edit request at Template:policy-list[edit]

At Template:policy-list, please change [[Wiktionary:Entry layout explained|ELE]] to [[Wiktionary:Entry layout|EL]] since the page was moved back in 2015. Posting here per instructions at Template:Edit protected. Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 06:51, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done by Chuck Entz. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 00:42, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Desktop/Mobile version[edit]

When switching from one language version to another while using the mobile version, the page gets loaded in the desktop version. Is this problem known? Greetings 17:22, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

@ Hmm, I tried it just now and that doesn't happen to me (specifically, on my phone, I switched from wikt:turun to wikt:id:turun, and I was still on m.wiktionary.org, just switching from en. to id.). So it may be an issue on your side (just maybe). Have you tried it again? Also, I highly recommend that you create an account, since your IP address may change from time to time (which may make us lose contact with you), yet account names remain the same over time. --Bismabrj (talk | contribs) 08:40, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Is pywikibot broken?[edit]

My scripts presently appear to do absolutely nothing. —Suzukaze-c (talk) 11:12, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

@Suzukaze-c Still running into this issue? My scripts work fine, although I haven't recently upgraded pywikibot. Did you recently upgrade? Benwing2 (talk) 04:09, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
@Benwing2 I have tried the pip version and the Arch Linux AUR version, both 5.3.0, the latest release. The script is [2]. —Suzukaze-c (talk) 09:48, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Apparently the problem is that ~/.pywikibot/user-config.py is not being loaded... —Suzukaze-c (talk) 12:24, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

phab:T270941. —Suzukaze-c (talk) 10:20, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

error in template:he-noun[edit]

Template:he-noun currently categorizes as Hebrew noun entries missing plural forms and Hebrew noun entries missing singular construct forms even if g=m-p or g=f-p or g=m-d or g=f-d is specified. This is an error: if one of those parameter values for g is specified, the entry should not be in those categories. Can someone who knows Lua (I do not) please modify the template to remedy this?​—msh210 (talk) 09:30, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done (diff). —Enosh (talk) 13:15, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
Thanks, Enosh, but that also adds "(no plural forms, no construct forms)" to the headword line, which is (or can be) incorrect. For example, in [[תמרורים]] the headword line previously and correctly listed the plural construct form, but now instead has the aforequoted note. ("No plural forms", in particular, is probably always wrong, given that the g values we're dealing with here are plural ones.) Do you think you can re-edit so only the categories are affected and not the headword line, please?​—msh210 (talk) 11:56, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
@msh210: Right. Do you think it would be better to just not do anything (not add to the missing or without categories) by default and make it so it's added to a category only when specified e.g. pl=-. —Enosh (talk) 15:00, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

I don't understand what you're asking, Enosh.

I don't know Lua but if I understand the logic correctly then what you added as

	if args["pl"] == "-"
		or args["g"] == "m-d" or args["g"] == "f-d" or args["g"] == "m-p" or args["g"] == "f-p" then
		table.insert(data.inflections, {label = "no plural forms"})
		table.insert(data.categories, "Hebrew nouns without plural forms")
	elseif args["pl"] == "" or args["pl"] == nil then
		table.insert(data.categories, "Hebrew noun entries missing plural forms")

could I think instead be

if args["pl"] == "-" then table.insert(data.inflections, {label = "no plural forms"}) table.insert(data.categories, "Hebrew nouns without plural forms") elseif (args["pl"] == "" or args["pl"] == nil) and not(args["g"] == "m-d" or args["g"] == "f-d" or args["g"] == "m-p" or args["g"] == "f-p") then

table.insert(data.categories, "Hebrew noun entries missing plural forms")

or thereabouts, and likewise your

if args["cons"] == "-" or args["g"] == "m-d" or args["g"] == "f-d" or args["g"] == "m-p" or args["g"] == "f-p" then table.insert(data.inflections, {label = "no construct forms"}) table.insert(data.categories, "Hebrew nouns without construct forms") else

if args["cons"] == "" or args["cons"] == nil then

could instead be

if args["cons"] == "-" then table.insert(data.inflections, {label = "no construct forms"}) table.insert(data.categories, "Hebrew nouns without construct forms") elseif args["g"] == "m-d" or args["g"] == "f-d" or args["g"] == "m-p" or args["g"] == "f-p" then [do nothing] else

if args["cons"] == "" or args["cons"] == nil then

Obviously, don't take my word for it, as I don't know Lua (which affects both my coding ability here in this reply and also my ability to read the module), but I think that something along those lines should work.​—msh210 (talk) 22:51, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

"Lemmas subcategories by language"[edit]

The descriptions of all lemma categories, such as Category:English lemmas, now list a "Category:Lemmas subcategories by language: Umbrella categories covering topics related to lemmas.", even though this category is not a subcategory of those lemma categories. Is this an intended change? — surjection??⟩ 11:28, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

@Surjection This is a recent bug I introduced. I will fix it soon. Benwing2 (talk) 02:24, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
@Surjection Fixed. Benwing2 (talk) 03:22, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


For some reason, everything in the i page after the Polish tab has all links changed to "Lua error: not enough memory" in red. This probably needs to be fixed. -- 00:30, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

This is a known problem, due to insufficient memory. Unfortunately, we don't have any real solution. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 00:42, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
@ Yes, as @Metaknowledge said, this is a known problem. It has been a thing for years. There was even a proposal on November 2019 to add more Lua memory, at meta:Community_Wishlist_Survey_2020/Wiktionary/More_Lua_memory_for_Wiktionary, but unfortunately it didn't win it seems. We forgot to re-propose that on November 2020. We haven't been able to solve it so far. Also, why is this discussion not under Wiktionary:Grease pit/2021/January? --Bismabrj (talk | contribs) 09:05, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
Almost half the world is in a later time zone than Wikimedia time, aka UTC, aka Zulu time. The OP was added at 4 pm in my time zone. Chuck Entz (talk) 10:04, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

January 2021

Combining diacritics[edit]

@DannyS712 brought a very strange redirect page to my attention. It's for a combining diacritic that puts a double dot under a letter, as in "x" vs. "x̤". This indicates murmured voicing, and is pretty much equivalent to the letter it redirects to, ʱ. I have a few questions:

What do we do with combining diacritics? While it's technically possible to search for this character, as a practical matter it's very difficult to copy it from anywhere using the normal user interface. We have it in the edit tools at the bottom of the edit window (under "IPA and enPR"), but if you run into it use somewhere combined with another character, I don't know of any way to select it in order to copypaste it without selecting the other character. I also have my doubts as to whether one can link to it using wikisyntax. The usual method, [[̤]], displays it, but there's no hyperlink.

Assuming someone knows how to isolate the character and get it into the search box, is it a good idea to have this as a redirect to a free-standing character that looks nothing like it? Should we put an character info box for its code point at the target page? Or is this a case for "Unsupported titles"? Chuck Entz (talk) 09:52, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

For the record, there is actually a link above in the example of the normal wikisyntax, its probably just too tiny to click on manually. The Linkclump chrome extension can be used, or you can check the dom manually DannyS712 (talk) 09:57, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
Specialized IPA keyboards should be able to create a standalone combining diacritic. —Suzukaze-c (talk) 10:08, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
As I said, it's technically possible to do all the normal things, but as a practical matter, if you know enough to figure out how to search for it, you probably already know what it means. Chuck Entz (talk) 10:15, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
  • Isn't this what U+25CC dotted circle is for? If we want to have a separate entry for U+0324 com­bi­ning diaeresis below (as opposed to redirecting to ʱ, since the latter really isn't used for breathy-voiced vowels), couldn't/shouldn't it be at ◌̤? —Mahāgaja · talk 10:24, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
    Yeah, I'm inclined to think the content (and hence, redirect target) should either be at ◌̤ or at an Unsupported Title, rather than just redirecting to a different character, and ◌̤ has the advantage of being a regular, mainspace entry. What we really need to consider, if we're trying to make this findable / reachable, is creating redirects or see-also links from any characters it appears under, like Chuck's example of . - -sche (discuss) 17:34, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

WOTD “yesterday” link[edit]

It should link to “Wiktionary:Word of the day/2020/December 31”, not “Wiktionary:Word of the day/2021/December 31” (Wiktionary:Main Page). J3133 (talk)

The same thing happened on Dec 31, when "tomorrow" linked to 1 Jan 2020, instead of 2021. The right word, new dawn, has appeared today however. DonnanZ (talk) 23:54, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Discussion Monthly Pages[edit]

@Rua I move-protected all the discussion forums after a page-move vandal hit some of them, which makes the usual method of creating these using a bot more complicated. Just to be on the safe side, I did my best guess at an imitation of the technique (move the last page of the previous year to the name for the new monthly page, move it back, move the redirect at the name for the new page to the name for the next page, move that to the next page name, etc, then replace the contents of the string of redirects with {{discussion month}}).

I'm pretty sure the desired effect of adding new months to everybody's watchlists was accomplished for the January pages, but beyond that, I'm not so sure. Since my account settings add pages I create to my watchlist, I have no way to check- they would be added to my watchlist either way. Given the importance of having all the monthly discussion pages on everybody's watchlists, this should be checked, and, if need be, fixed. Chuck Entz (talk) 17:18, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

@Chuck Entz: All 2021 pages are on my watchlist. J3133 (talk) 17:27, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Category:en:Places in England[edit]

Message: Lua error: not enough memory. It may be a temporary error. DonnanZ (talk) 23:58, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

It's OK now. DonnanZ (talk) 06:12, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Wrong entries in Category:German multiword terms[edit]

The category contains many terms which aren't multiword terms.
Most compounds and derivatives (Category:German compound words; Category:German words by prefix, Category:German words by suffix) aren't multiword terms, and a hyphen inside of a compound or derivative doesn't make it a multiword term.
See and compare:

--Der Zeitmeister (talk) 10:26, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Same deal in Proto-Eskimo. I don't know what a hyphen indicates in Proto-Eskimo, but these words aren't indicated to be polymorphemic.__Gamren (talk) 18:41, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
Even in English, G-d isn't a multiword term. —Mahāgaja · talk 18:56, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
@Mahagaja, Gamren, Der Zeitmeister The algorithm isn't very smart about handling hyphens. You can add a language to data.hyphen_not_multiword_sep in Module:headword/data to disable adding a term to 'multiword terms' if it has a hyphen in it, but I'm not sure how to make it smart enough to handle all the cases above. Maybe it should be conservative and not add a page to 'multiword terms' based only on a hyphen. What do people think? Benwing2 (talk) 02:27, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
I think it would be better to err on the side of exclusion from the category. It's much easier to add {{cln|de|multiword terms}} manually to an entry that requires it than to remove it from one to which it's added automatically. —Mahāgaja · talk 07:58, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
@Mahagaja, Gamren, Der Zeitmeister OK, I added German and Proto-Eskimo to data.hyphen_not_multiword_sep, and added a flag |nomultiwordcat= to {{head}} to disable the category on a case-by-case basis. (There was already |noposcat=; I also added |nogendercat= to disable auto-addition of gender-based categories such as Category:German masculine nouns.) I think it makes sense at least for English to have Category:English multiword terms added based on hyphens, since the vast majority of hyphenated words are in fact multiword terms. However, if all this is still insufficient, there are some other things that could be done: (1) have the code check to make sure all hyphenated components exist as words; (2) reverse the sense of data.hyphen_not_multiword_sep so it functions as an inclusion list rather than an exclusion list. Note that (1) wouldn't catch G-d, but it would catch cases like g-ddamn. Benwing2 (talk) 02:45, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Category:Hawaiian Creole language[edit]

The relevant Lua code needs to be updated to get rid of the module error that currently occurs when attempting to create this category with {{auto cat}}. I'm not familiar with any of the Lua code on this site so I don't know how to resolve this problem myself at the moment. User: The Ice Mage talk to meh 17:58, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

@The Ice Mage: No Lua work necessary. The error message said to add the name of a country, and I put in {{auto cat|the United States}} and it worked. — Eru·tuon 18:05, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Category:Guamo language's family[edit]

Wikipedia lists the family as Guamo–Chapakuran with a question mark...would someone be able to add data for that language family to Wiktionary, or is it better not to due to uncertainty or something? User: The Ice Mage talk to meh 20:10, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

I also have a different question relating to Guamo: I can see it's an extinct language, so I'm wondering how do I get the category page to say that? User: The Ice Mage talk to meh 20:50, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

@The Ice Mage: Add |extinct=1 to {{auto cat}}. —Mahāgaja · talk 21:28, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Category:Kamakã languages[edit]

Another thing I found on Special:WantedCategories for which data is apparently not set up yet. Wikipedia says it's a subfamily of Macro-Jê languages. User: The Ice Mage talk to meh 20:22, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Category:Olukumi language[edit]

When trying to create this using {{auto cat}} it gives an error that references {{topic cat}}...does anyone know how to fix this? User: The Ice Mage talk to meh 16:30, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

@The Ice Mage: The error occurs because our canonical spelling of the language name is Ulukwumi. So either the category needs to be renamed CAT:Ulukwumi language or the canonical name needs to be changed at Module:languages/data3/u. —Mahāgaja · talk 17:35, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Not enough memory[edit]

Well...a. What do we do with a page where it starts in entry 97? Esszet (talk) 01:27, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Does anyone know what to do? This is a huge problem for the page. Esszet (talk) 02:13, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
Yes, there are a handful of pages like this (and there will only be more in the future). One solution is to create separate pages (messy but it works) and the other is to have someone working on the backend fix it (cf. phab:T188492). —Justin (koavf)TCM 04:31, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
According to Aklapper, it needs to be fixed here. Esszet (talk) 00:45, 12 January 2021 (UTC)


This page has been cluttering up Category:ParserFunction errors since mid-November. Is there any way to control what shows up in that category like there is with Category:Pages with module errors? Or do we need to edit this to get rid of the test cases? Chuck Entz (talk) 15:24, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Invalid ISBN[edit]

If you go to the 烏魯木齊乌鲁木齐 (Wūlǔmùqí) page, I have added an example sentence under the definition for Etymology 1 under the Chinese header. (Put aside whether this is a good example sentence for the moment- I plan to use this book elsewhere anyway.) There's a message there that says "Invalid ISBN". According the book itself, the ISBN of the book is 7-80053-740. The ISBN can be seen here: [3] [4]. There is no guidance at Template:ISBN for what I should do. The link on the Template:ISBN page to the ISBN Converter no longer works. I found an online resource that says that the ISBN for this book is not 7-80053-740 but is instead 7-80053-740-1. Should I trust that source or the book itself? Seeking guidance generally. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 11:02, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

@Geographyinitiative: An ISBN has only 10 or 13 digits (one introduced ISBN-13 after finding out 10 digits is too little for all books in the world). The last digit of either an ISBN-10 or ISBN-13 is a check digit calculated from the other digits, serving for computers to calculate whether and display if there might be a typo. Therefore the first ISBN you write here is an incomplete ISBN whereas only the latter can be perfect. Fay Freak (talk) 11:51, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
@Fay Freak Thank you for your informative response. Based on what you have said, is the nine digit ISBN I'm looking at here "wrong"? Did the publishers of this book make a "mistake"? Or did they omit something that is obvious? What should I do if I run into nine digit ISBNs in the future? Should some kind of note be added to Template:ISBN? --Geographyinitiative (talk) 11:55, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
 @Geographyinitiative: It’s not your fault in any case if an ISBN given by the book publisher is invalid, so there is nothing to worry. Although you can brute-force check the digits 0-9 to whether they validate. (In ISBN-10 the check digit is not only 0-9 but also possibly X.) Fay Freak (talk) 12:00, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
Corrected per WorldCat. —Suzukaze-c (talk) 12:02, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

@Fay Freak, Suzukaze-c I am learning a lot about ISBNs. You can see some more of my bad work at Category:Pages with ISBN errors. I would like to solve all these problems somehow and create a note on Template:ISBN that gives guidance for what to do when you get "Invalid ISBN" (maybe as simple as "go to Wiktionary Grease Pit" or "look it up at xxx database") --Geographyinitiative (talk) 12:09, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Question about 2 language categories from WantedCategories[edit]

I have found 2 instances where Wiktionary is using one name for a language, but Wikipedia is using another, with the one used by Wiktionary just being a redirect.

Does anyone have opinions on which names we should use on Wiktionary? User: The Ice Mage talk to meh 16:51, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Incidentally, I just noticed that Wiktionary is already using the name Western Karaboro for a related language. User: The Ice Mage talk to meh 16:53, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

swapping Recht haben and recht haben possibly with their history[edit]

In Duden online, the recommended form is the lowercase one, so the uppercase form should be the "Alternative form" and the lowercase form, the primary entry.

Due to the swapping, I don't know how moving could be done (unless I use a temporary third pagename, which is deleted afterwards). Obviously, a copy-paste wouldn't be very elegant, and the history of the two pages should be preserved. I'd like to ask someone with the right authorization to do it more professionally. Thank you in advance. Adam78 (talk) 17:41, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

I don't think they should be swapped. The only thing changing is the definition and possibly the etymology- the conjugation tables are the same. Chuck Entz (talk) 18:02, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
According to korrekturen.de "Recht haben" was the single prescribed form from 1996 (1st Rechtschreibreform) till 2004/2006. On the other hand, "recht haben" is the standard form since ages. Possible this info should be in the entries in some way, but possible better sourced and with 2004 or 2006 instead of "2004/2006". -- 11:57, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Label modules are driving me up the wall[edit]

I am trying to add Category:Extremaduran Spanish to entries via a label, such as {{lb|es|Andalusia|Canary Islands|Extremadura}} at lavija. I would think that it should be added to Module:labels/data/subvarieties but note that labels "Andalusia" and "Canary Islands" are not at this module: instead, they are at Module:labels/data/regional. I added it there but there is no category that is created, nor is it linked in the label. What do I do to fix this? I have been running around trying to find what turns "{{lb|es|Canary Islands}} into a valid label that creates a link and adds an entry to Category:Canarian Spanish but I can't find it to save my life. Help, please. —Justin (koavf)TCM 04:30, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Also Category:Huelvan Spanish and this edit. —Justin (koavf)TCM 04:47, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
Also Category:Riojano Spanish; I didn't even bother adding it to a module this time because there's no point in going far off track. —Justin (koavf)TCM 04:58, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
Category:Belizean Spanish works! Caramba. —Justin (koavf)TCM 07:21, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
To add: Category:Leonese Spanish, Category:Palencian Spanish, Category:Zamoran Spanish, Category:Cantabrian Spanish. —Justin (koavf)TCM 09:17, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
Category:Rioplatense Spanish and if I can find attestable terms, Category:Brazilian Spanish and Category:Saharan Spanish. Any help? —Justin (koavf)TCM 03:48, 14 January 2021 (UTC)


{{R:fa:Gazophylacium}} links to the wrong page because the pages in the book run backwards. See یڭیچری‎ for example. The link to page 297 generates a Google Books URL with pg=PA297 which links to the page numbered 220. The correct URL contains pg=PA220 to link to page 297. I think this is impractical to do right with templates alone, but maybe somebody here has an idea. (@Vahagn Petrosyan) Vox Sciurorum (talk) 20:03, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

@Vox Sciurorum: I linked the archive.org version instead where the book does not run backwards. --Vahag (talk) 06:16, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Gëzuar Vitin e Ri and its links that don't work[edit]

The entry in the title shows the expression with a link under each word, namely Gëzuar Vitin e Ri. Now, the entries Gëzuar and Vitin don't exist, because Gëzuar is capitalized and the entry is gëzuar without the capital, and vitin is an inflected form of vit (and also it's capitalized, vitin exists). As for Ri, it should link to ri. I would correct that myself, but I find myself confronted by an opaque template, namely { { head|sq|interjection } } outputting Grease pit. What can we do to fix this? MGorrone (talk) 14:17, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Also, why does that template output the expression with links at the entry, but this bold "January" here in the GP? MGorrone (talk) 14:17, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

  • I fixed the links. {{head|sq|interjection}} without an explicit head argument takes the name of the current page (here, January) and formats it by the default method of breaking the word at spaces and linking the components. If you add a head argument you can control the formatting yourself. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 14:20, 11 January 2021 (UTC)


Someone has to update the relevant Lua modules so that this category can be like all other topical categories, being set up by simply using {{auto cat}}. I would do it, but I couldn't quite figure out what module to edit...I think the description "<langname> terms related to dictionaries." would be fine, and we should keep its parent categories as they are right now. User: The Ice Mage talk to meh 15:39, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Esperanto terms spelled with Ĥ[edit]

The basic Esperanto alphabet contains the letter Ĥ. It is the most uncommon letter of the alphabet. I think it would be a good idea to automatically populate the category Category:Esperanto terms spelled with Ĥ with words that contain the letter. This can be acomplished by adding the following piece of code the line 136 of the module Module:eo-headword. The page is protected, so I cannot add or test this proposal myself.

if mw.ustring.match(PAGENAME, "[ĥĤ]") then
    table.insert(tracking_categories, "Esperanto terms spelled with Ĥ")

Robin van der Vliet (talk) (contribs) 22:39, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

You should edit Module:languages/data2. I have added the standard characters A-PRSTUVa-pRSTUVĉĈĝĜĵĴŝŜŭŬ. DTLHS (talk) 22:44, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
I also found that location, but I was unsure if that is the right location, since Ĥ is a standard character of Esperanto, it is not like Æ in English. Robin van der Vliet (talk) (contribs) 23:15, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
I think the letter Ĥ should be included among the standard characters at Module:languages/data2, because is part of the standard alphabet in Esperanto. --Rajzin (talk) 23:21, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
It doesn't matter. The only thing this field is used for is to populate these categories. DTLHS (talk) 23:26, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
Can you also add 0-9 to the standard characters? Robin van der Vliet (talk) (contribs) 02:40, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Added. DTLHS (talk) 02:42, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
I agree that the proposal is probably worth implementing. Ĥ may not be a nonstandard character in Esperanto, but it is subject to some controversy in the Esperanto community - you can more or less divide Esperanto speakers into people that use Ĥ and people that don't.
Ĥ is the rarest letter by far and considered by some to be difficult to pronounce, making some Esperanto speakers advocate avoiding its use whenever possible (usually by changing Ĥ to K), leading to a whole class of alternative forms. (ĥemio vs. kemio, teĥniko vs. tekniko, etc.) Other speakers don't agree, and actively support keeping the letter alive.
So in my opinion there is real practical use to having an exhaustive list of Esperanto words on Wiktionary that contain Ĥ. --Rajzin (talk) 23:21, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Add Italian standardChars at Module:languages/data2[edit]

In order to make Category:Italian terms by their individual characters automatic. J3133 (talk) 08:57, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Added. DTLHS (talk) 03:52, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Requesting a new parameter in template "inflection of"[edit]

I'd like to request the addition of a new parameter in {{inflection of}}. The name of the parameter might be 2p or 2po, the displayed text should be second-person-object form and the entire text should be linked to Appendix:Glossary#second-person-object form. An example entry would be látlak. A discussion about this parameter is here: Template talk:hu-conj-unified/doWork. Thank you. Panda10 (talk) 18:48, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

@Panda10 I think Module:form_of/data and/or Module:form of/data2 need to be extended. I don't have the permission to edit them. If we check their history, we can find people who are authorized and whom we might personally contact. Adam78 (talk) 13:59, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

@Adam78 I added it to Module:form of/data2 and I updated látlak. It worked. Panda10 (talk) 18:29, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

@Panda10 Great! Thank you! :) Adam78 (talk) 18:38, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Add Category:Terms spelled with * (by language)[edit]

E.g., “Category:Terms spelled with K (by language)” would contain the subcategories Category:Chinese terms spelled with K, Category:Irish terms spelled with K, Category:Italian terms spelled with K, Category:Latin terms spelled with K, Category:Portuguese terms spelled with K, Category:Spanish terms spelled with K, and Category:Welsh terms spelled with K. J3133 (talk) 08:48, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Here, I presume: Module:category tree/poscatboiler/data/characters @Benwing2. J3133 (talk) 10:45, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

@J3133 I fixed up your code. The original reason for not having an umbrella category like this is because of Japanese kanji character categories like Category:Japanese terms spelled with 守; we'd end up with thousands of new umbrella categories, each holding a single Japanese category. I made it so that Japanese and Okinawan categories don't have an umbrella category, and other languages do. In general, all you need to do to add an umbrella category is to remove umbrella = false and add umbrella_parents = "Terms by their original characters subcategories by language" or similar (and add a raw entry for "Terms by their original characters subcategories by language"). In this case, it was trickier because the existing code assumed that there was a language in the category and used it to italicize and link the character in the description, breadcrumb and title. I changed it to use Translingual as the language for this purpose for the umbrella categories. Benwing2 (talk) 19:18, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Question on customized acceleration layout and form creation with a bot[edit]

Are the language subpages to Module:accel for specific customization for a language? For Hungarian Module:accel/hu was recently deleted because I assume the standard code handled it. What type of customization is allowed? Whatever can be achieved with Lua? I'd like to understand it because the new conjugation acceleration added to {{hu-conj-unified/doWork}} would need some adjustments. Discussion about the current issues can be found in the Acceleration testing section on Template talk:hu-conj-unified/doWork. If we wanted to create the verb forms with a bot, would it be connected to the acceleration function or the bot works entirely separately? Panda10 (talk) 00:40, 16 January 2021 (UTC)


Wiktionary:Bookmarklets and Help:Tips and tricks/Bookmarklets are two rather old pages providing some bookmarklets. Do these still work at all? WP's article on bookmarklet explains that increased browser security now tends to prevent this technique from working. Should the pages be retired or updated in some way? Equinox 10:01, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

Not enough memory II[edit]

According to the people at the Phabricator, the memory issues we're having (see a and i) need to fixed here. Esszet (talk) 16:51, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Ya. "50 MB ought to be enough for anybody." – Jberkel 16:59, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
So now what? Esszet (talk) 17:28, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
No solution for the foreseeable future, except forking the website and doing things our way. PUC – 17:31, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
Really? There's nowhere we can request more memory? Esszet (talk) 21:15, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
We requested. The answer was no. We should plan on splitting the page into parts. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 15:14, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Old Slavic font size[edit]

Why are Old East Slavic and Old Church Slavonic rendered in a larger font size? Looks like a bug to me, maybe a missing native script/font entry in a table somewhere? Compare Old East Slavic козакъ (kozakŭ) to Belarusian казак (kazak), Old Church Slavonic агода (agoda) to Russian ягода (jagoda). (Seen using Chrome on Chrome OS and Firefox on a Mac.) Vox Sciurorum (talk) 15:13, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

We treat Cyrillic and Old Cyrillic as two different scripts. On my computer, Old Cyrillic script is shown in a font that looks quite different from the modern Cyrillic script; it has the sort of uncial look shown in the "Image" column at w:Early Cyrillic alphabet#Alphabet. —Mahāgaja · talk 18:00, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
On my computer the scripts are almost identical except for size. Here are two letters to compare: {{m|orv|Д}} => Д (D) and {{m|ru|Д}}} => Д (D). The old form is taller than the Latin letters and almost identical in shape to the modern form (possibly very slightly more tapered, not triangular like the Wikipedia image). The modern form is the same height as Latin capital letters. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 18:55, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
@Vox Sciurorum:: Old Cyrillic script is set to 125% font size at MediaWiki:Common.css. This makes sense for most of the fonts specified there under .Cyrs, which cause the script to display in Uncial style and look clearer when displayed slightly larger. However, if you don’t have any of the first 11 fonts listed, you’ll end up with text in fallback fonts such as Code2000 or DejaVu Sans, which use the modern Civil Script style of Cyrillic, but unfortunately, it’ll still render in a larger size. — Vorziblix (talk · contribs) 15:36, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

How long does it take for all the transclusions of a template to update?[edit]

A fair proportion of https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag?namespace=0 is down to one module which was fixed earlier today.

Manually purging 30,000 entries is time consuming. Can it be automated? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:45, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Multilingual Cuneiform font for usage in Wiktionary[edit]

Hello everybody in Ancient Oriental studies,

Although not a scientist, I would like to get in touch, thanks for your attention. I am a typeface designer and, in loose collaboration with researchers at several academic institutions in Germany, currently developing a new digital Cuneiform font family, which will be cross-checked and finalized in the course of 2021. The family will consist of the following fonts:

1. Neo-Assyrian forms, alongside Persian and Ugaritic Cuneiform

2. Neo-Babylonian forms

3. Old Babylonian forms as canonized by Unicode

4. Classical Sumerian forms (plus the most important archaic variants) for etymological purposes.

The idea is to develop one multilingual typeface family with a harmoneous design. Its main purpose is to bring together Old Babylonian forms and their Neo-Assyrian counterparts for better use in Dictionaries or sign lists such as on Wiktionary. The font family can be licensed for free. I would be excited if Wiktionary would use it as a webfont, if technically possible with your CMS. Then, characters could be displayed in ancient and more recent shapes, making study a richer experience. The design follows a lapidar style, while I regard cursive a domain of hand-rendering skills or photographic reproduction of existing tablets.

I am aware of a similar project already existing, maintained by German designer Johannes Bergerhausen, to whom I offered to add Neo-Assyrian glyph shapes to his “DecodeCuneiform” font, but however, there seem to be no resources currently.

The first chunk of work to be finished will be font (1) and (2) – Neo-Assyrian and Neo-Babylonian variants according to Rykle Borger and Henri Labat. Font (3) will mainly follow Unicode (Steve Tinney) and Catherine Mittermayer.

Unfortunately, I was not able to add an image for a first impression, much more I would be indeed excited to get in touch with the Cuneiform community on Wiktionary.

All the best from Berlin, Roman Wilhelm

http://www.roman946.de http://www.romantype.net —⁠This unsigned comment was added by Roman R. Wilhelm (talkcontribs) at 11:48, 19 January 2021 (UTC).

Language tabs gadget - default language[edit]

I'd like to suggest that the languages tab gadget have a default language setting. When I'm looking up a word it's usually for the same language every time, but every time I go to a page I have to scroll/find the right language. To remove this, I've enabled the tab gadget and added a greasemonkey script that sets the anchor to the language I want. I've put a copy of the script on the gadget discussion page, but if when a user enabled the gadget it added a menu to the top bar providing a dropdown with a language selection, save that as a cookie, jump to that tab, would improve the UX I think. Discussion of this type of use has taken place before.

I'm happy to do this if someone's able to provide a bit of guidance, I've got no idea how to edit a gadget and have limited experience in JS.

Alwaysmpe (talk) 18:03, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

WT:ACCEL doesn't merge simple past and past participle[edit]

See [5]. It would be preferable for WT:ACCEL to recognise that bliked is both past forms, and generate only one line, as shown in my correcting edit that followed. Equinox 07:50, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Add nows parameter to Template:ws[edit]

In order to not add “[Ws]” after the term; e.g., at Thesaurus:body of water, run would use nows because its Thesaurus page is unrelated to water (note that the template is protected). J3133 (talk) 10:36, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Template:tea room sense fix[edit]

Add / before {{{y}}} (where is {{#if:{{{m|}}}|{{{y}}}), because, e.g., {{tea room sense|m=August|y=2020}} links to “Wiktionary:Tea room2020/August” (the template is protected). J3133 (talk) 10:36, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done Chuck Entz (talk) 20:04, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Limiting characters in head[edit]

Is it possible to trigger a warning or error from {{head}} if I enter an Ottoman Turkish word that uses a character not in the set at Ottoman Turkish alphabet? In particular, I've made a couple mistakes where I used U+06A9 keheh when I meant U+0643 kaf. They are very similar in connected form. In English a similar mistake would result in the word being added to a category, words spelled with (some non-Latin letter). Vox Sciurorum (talk) 00:20, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

The easy way is to add a list of standard characters to Module:languages/data3/o. DTLHS (talk) 01:01, 23 January 2021 (UTC)