Wiktionary:Grease pit/2017/October

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discussion rooms: Tea roomEtym. scr.Info deskBeer parlourGrease pit ← September 2017 · October 2017 · November 2017 → · (current)

Wiktionary:Administrators/List of administrators[edit]

Wouldn't it be possible to automatise this list, and add a self-updating column "Date of last edit"? --Barytonesis (talk) 18:57, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

abstinence of war is not a one-syllable word[edit]

For some reason, abstinence of war has ended up in Category:English 1-syllable words. I'm guessing this error has something to do with Template:IPA. That template hasn't been edited recently, though, so I'm not sure what's going on. MewBot has been making edits related to the category lately, so maybe User:CodeCat will know what the problem is? —Granger (talk · contribs) 18:30, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

{{IPA}} categorizes syllables for each parameter. In this case "ʌv" and "wɔɹ" are single syllables. DTLHS (talk) 18:31, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
Thanks, that makes sense. I see that it's in Category:English 3-syllable words too. Is there a way to remove the entry from those categories? —Granger (talk · contribs) 18:36, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
Remove the pronunciation since it can be found from the individual component words. DTLHS (talk) 18:39, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
I thought we decided that {{IPA}} should not add these categories at all. --WikiTiki89 18:45, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
Who is "we"? I think it works quite well. DTLHS (talk) 18:48, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
"We" is the WT:BP. But it looks like it's been improved since we had that conversation. Was there any discussion to reinstate this functionality? --WikiTiki89 18:53, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
What was agreed in a previous discussion that I found in this search was that the template needs a parameter that turns off syllable counting. Perhaps there is another discussion that I missed. I finally implemented that now. — Eru·tuon 19:58, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
Proxima Centauri apparently has 12 and 13 syllables. Equinox 21:08, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
Yes, it does. DTLHS (talk) 21:16, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
Now fixed, but I'm struggling to hear how it could be pronounced with 7 syllables. DTLHS (talk) 21:20, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
It's because -aʊə- counts as two syllables. Consider whether hour is 1 syllable or 2. —Rua (mew) 21:40, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

How do I turn off the new Recent Changes?[edit]

It would be fine, but on my old computer it's too slow to load all that script. I went to my Preferences, Beta features tab, but it's already unticked there. Saving didn't help. Equinox 18:37, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

I wish it didn't have to load, but was just available as soon as the rest of the page. All these gadgets with their own load delays annoy me. —Rua (mew) 18:48, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
I would like it a lot more if the list automatically updated periodically. DTLHS (talk) 20:27, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
What exactly do we have to do to go back to the old system? SemperBlotto (talk) 20:45, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
@SemperBlotto: you have to go to "Special:Preferences", then to the tab "Recent changes". There's the following tick box: "Hide the improved version of Recent Changes" - Rolls back the 2017 interface redesign and all tools added then and since. --Barytonesis (talk) 20:49, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
Found it. Thanks. SemperBlotto (talk) 20:53, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

new block page[edit]

When an admin blocks a user, we now get a new page with lots of white space that we have to scroll down. It doesn't seem to add any new function and is annoying. Is there any way we can get rid of it? SemperBlotto (talk) 05:43, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

I don't see it. Screenshot? DTLHS (talk) 05:47, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
After several minutes trying to remember how to take a screenshot - it's at
block Capture.PNG
SemperBlotto (talk) 06:01, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
Try adding these rules to your common.css: #blockiptext { display: none; } and .oo-ui-fieldLayout.oo-ui-labelElement, .oo-ui-fieldLayout.oo-ui-fieldLayout-align-inline { margin-top: .01em; } DTLHS (talk) 06:16, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
OK. I didn't have one of those. Created it with ONLY the above code. Seems to be better. It won't be long before I use it for real. Thanks. SemperBlotto (talk) 06:26, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
Gratuitous white space is modern and sexy. The scrolling is worth it. (but seriously why are these redesigns so damn ugly in Monobook) —suzukaze (tc) 06:55, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
It's been put back the way it was - excellent! SemperBlotto (talk) 06:16, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Batch fix request[edit]

"From Borrowing from". Wyang (talk) 07:43, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

@Wyang: done. —JohnC5 09:00, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
@JohnC5 Thanks! Wyang (talk) 09:11, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

Getting a list of...[edit]

Entries (or language sections) with an unbalanced number of {}, or []? (potentially good cleanup list.) Wyang (talk) 09:12, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

While useful, it might be hard to find out which of them is unmatched on a long page. So I would suggest that the dump also includes an excerpt from the wikicode which highlights exactly which bracket is missing a pair. —Rua (mew) 10:38, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
On Wikipedia, w:User:BracketBot used to do something somewhat similar, but it hasn't been active since July 2016. I believe there used to be a Toolserver page that allowed users to find pages with unpaired brackets and highlighted the brackets in question, but I don't know if anything similar currently exists. —Granger (talk · contribs) 11:28, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
@Wyang User:DTLHS/cleanup/unbalanced brackets. DTLHS (talk) 17:09, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
@DTLHS Thanks! Wyang (talk) 22:43, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

Complex URLs don't work in single-bracket link syntax[edit]

See normalphobia, please advise. Equinox 17:13, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

You gotta escape those damn quotation marks. — Ungoliant (falai) 17:16, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Link language in template m+[edit]

I noticed that {{m+}} is not linking the language to the Wikipedia article, unlike other similar templates. This is inconsistent. Can someone fix this, please? If no one does, I may try doing it by myself.

Examples:

  • {{m+|fr|qwerty}} = French qwerty (currently does not link to the Wikipedia article)
  • {{cog|fr|qwerty}} = French qwerty (currently links to the Wikipedia article)

Thanks in advance. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 21:38, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

And we also have {{noncog}}. Some of these should probably be merged. —Rua (mew) 21:47, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
{{m+}} was created in a discussion in July, and @Florian Blaschke requested that the language name be unlinked by default, because in many cases the language is well-known and the link isn't all that useful. I find that sort of convincing, but I recognize that it is somewhat confusing for the behavior of {{cog}} and {{noncog}} to be different from that of {{m+}}.
It is easy to change the default behavior in Module:links/templates, but note that there's currently a parameter that turns Wikipedia links on, so if the behavior of the template changes, current instances of the template should probably have the no-Wikipedia-link parameter added so that their display doesn't change. Or it could be resolved that the language name should always be linked. — Eru·tuon 22:14, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
Arguably, all languages should be linked by default in {{noncog}} and {{m+}} because that's what all other templates do: {{der}}, {{bor}}, {{inh}} and even the deprecated {{etyl}}. We could say this is the status quo. We are free to discuss and change that, of course, but I'd like any changes to be reflected in the other templates as well.
--Daniel Carrero (talk) 22:22, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
All those other templates are used in etymologies though, where people are likely to encounter languages they're not familiar with. Can the same be said for {{m+}}? Also, it is worth considering that years ago, we had a rule to link some languages in translations but not others. We eventually decided to make it consistent and not link any of the languages. Perhaps the same should be done here. —Rua (mew) 22:56, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
I prefer to use {{m+}} in etymologies when the language has already been mentioned. That way, the link appears only at the first mention of the language, but not at subsequent mentions, which would be annoying. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 15:06, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

New editor -- horrid[edit]

What's with the new editor? This is appearing since last week. Everything is harder to do -- it loads slower, it sometimes grabs the wrong section for editing, lots of things are hidden now, and everything except typing takes more clicks than before.

Anyone know how to disable this monstrosity? ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 22:17, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Check your preferences under "beta features". DTLHS (talk) 22:39, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
@DTLHS: THANK YOU. That was driving me batty. Nearly a textbook example of bad user experience. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 00:02, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Category:French words suffixed with -ment[edit]

As there are two different suffixes -ment (verb → noun vs. adjective → adverb), I've split this category in two (I'm not terribly satisfied of the naming, so I'm open to suggestions):

Would it be possible to run a bot that would assign all the entries using the POS header ===Noun=== to the first one, and the ones using ===Adverb=== to the second? --Barytonesis (talk) 17:22, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Category:German words suffixed with -en and Category:Dutch words suffixed with -en need similar treatment: substance if adjective, denominative if verb. Additionally, Category:German adjectives suffixed with -en needs to be converted to Category:German words suffixed with -en (substance). —Rua (mew) 19:09, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
Category:English words suffixed with -ly > Category:English words suffixed with -ly (adjectival) and Category:English words suffixed with -ly (adverbial). --Barytonesis (talk) 19:54, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

Pull-down listing of reasons for reversions and undos[edit]

See Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/2017/October#Please.2C_please_reveal_the_cause_of_the_revert_in_the_edit_summary.

This seems to me a desirable change, though it might need BP discussion.

What would have to be done to provide pull-down listings of reasons for reversion or undoing of contributions? As to content the pulldown listing of reasons for entry deletion would be a start. DCDuring (talk) 19:06, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

If you want to leave a reason you can use undo instead of reversion. DTLHS (talk) 19:14, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
The pull-down menu would be useful to facilitate actually providing a reason, without typing, especially for reversion/undoing of contributions by newbies, anons etc. DCDuring (talk) 19:24, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

proscribed viri(i)[edit]

How can we lay-out in virus that both viri and virii are proscribed? Sobreira ►〓 (parlez) 11:51, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

  • Better now? —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 12:08, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
    • Thanks. I tried with the order, not with the numbers. Sobreira ►〓 (parlez) 12:34, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
      • Named parameters can come in any order. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 17:23, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

catalyses (n) and catalyses (v)[edit]

My doubt: as in analyses, shouldn't catalyses have two etymologies? Would the plural of catalysis have also a different pronounciation from the present of to catalyse. Sobreira ►〓 (parlez) 12:34, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Yes. DTLHS (talk) 17:27, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
Yes check.svg DoneAɴɢʀ (talk) 17:34, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

The Wiktionary search 'incategory:"English noun plural forms" incategory:"English third-person singular forms" -"Etymology 2"' found 4,791 such entries with no second Etymology. This would be an underestimate of the size of the total problem. DCDuring (talk) 18:47, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

It seems like a low priority unless the noun and verb forms have different pronunciations. DTLHS (talk) 18:56, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
I agree. It's a particularly high priority when one form has an alternative spelling (in this case, catalyzes) that the other form doesn't have. When only the pronunciation is different, the solution at houses is adequate IMO. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 19:11, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Pings not working[edit]

Pings for me haven't been showing up at all for about 3-4 days now. Anyone else experiencing the same? Wyang (talk) 20:09, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Same here (test: @Wyang) DTLHS (talk) 20:18, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
I have no idea. Has anyone pung me lately? —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 20:21, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
Being discussed at w:Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Not receiving pings and phab:T177825. -- John of Reading (talk) 20:25, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
Ah, thanks. It's a pity that they downgraded it from high priority. I miss the pingable days; I feel people tend to be more active when they can see others have pung them at various places. Wyang (talk) 07:03, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
It does make it less easy to communicate, especially for those of use who like to use it in talk pages instead of using WT:TR. (BTW, pung lol... the entry for ping only has pinged as a past tense... do people actually use pung?) — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 07:40, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
No, of course not. I said it as a joke. (But pung is only the past participle; the past tense would of course be pang.) It would also be possible to model it on bring and have ping – pought – pought. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 08:36, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
Haha :D — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 18:55, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
  • @Wikitiki89, as this explains our recent confusion over his pings not going through... but of course, my ping probably won't work. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 07:08, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
Try to updated yours preferences saving some change and then saving it back. It worked for me. On Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-echo I changed to mention->email, I received a ping by email, I restored preferences back to "web" and now it is working fine onwiki. Of course, it won't work for pinging others, but for receiving pings to you. --Vriullop (talk) 16:05, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

Spacing issue[edit]

What's going on at bila#Swahili with the Arabic etymon? I'm not seeing a space between the words "Arabic" and بِلَا. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 19:47, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

I can see a space on my computer: [1]. Wyang (talk) 23:37, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
I can see it, too. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 00:41, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
What browser? Are you using any extensions or messing with fonts that could cause this? DTLHS (talk) 00:43, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
The problem only occurs on Safari. That's weird, but I guess I won't worry about it then. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 02:37, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

Adding Xiongnu and Xianbei as etymology-only languages[edit]

Would be handy for Chinese etymologies. How should I go about this, and what code should they have? Wyang (talk) 08:06, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

Module:etymology languages/data. I'm not sure of the exact rules for coming up with a code, but it looks like (closest parent language)-(three letters representing language). DTLHS (talk) 17:37, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
In this case you want to format them like Turduli (q.v.), as und-xnu and und-xbi or whatever three letters make sense to you. (Unless Xianbei is so clearly Mongolic that you'll want to be deriving terms back to Proto-Mongolic, in which case the code should begin with xgn-.) —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 17:52, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
If they're etymology-only languages, they need a parent language (i.e. the language that they're considered a "dialect" of). That can be und, as it is for Turfuli, but in that case Xianbei probably shouldn't be given a code starting with xgn-. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 19:58, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
Ah, thanks for pointing that out. They'd best be und. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 21:05, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
Thanks all. I added them under the codes of und-xnu and und-xbi. Wyang (talk) 07:55, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

Looking for small technical tasks+mentors for new contributors - got something in mind?[edit]

Hi everybody! Google Code-in (GCI) will soon take place again - a seven week long contest for 13-17 year old students to contribute to free software projects. Tasks should take an experienced contributed about two-three hours and can be of the categories Code, Documentation/Training, Outreach/Research, Quality Assurance, and User Interface/Design. Do you have an idea for a task and could you imagine mentoring that task? For example, do you have something on mind that needs documentation, research, some gadget or template issues on your "To do" list but you never had the time, and can imagine enjoying mentoring such a task to help a new contributor? If yes, please check out mw:Google Code-in/2017 and become a mentor! Thanks in advance! --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 19:55, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

About show/hide sections[edit]

Hi you all! (Sorry for my English)

I am an Admin from Turkish Wiktionary and have been working on some extensions lately to improve Turkish Wiktionary in a level which English Wiktionary reached at this point. I updated the Commons.js file few days ago; this was inevitable, because we had to use "the show/hide" feature on translitions template. I managed to translate this feature with the "Visibility" title that shown on sidebar. But as you can see on this page, it doesn't work on mobile pages. We should do an extra change for that? If anyone can help, that would be nice. Thanks! HastaLaVi2 (talk) 08:46, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

@HastaLaVi2 See MediaWiki:Mobile.js. --Vriullop (talk) 12:13, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Transcriptions[edit]

In what module is the code that shows transcriptions automatically when writing a non-latin scripted word in {{m}} or {{l}} etc.? We intend to use it at sv.wikt.Jonteemil (talk) 21:00, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

The code that handles these templates is in Module:links, but this module calls on a function in Module:languages to create a transliteration, where it gets forwarded to the language's transliteration module. Different languages have different transliteration modules. —Rua (mew) 21:02, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
See Category:Transliteration modules for a full list of the modules. The Language data modules specify which module is used by which language. — Eru·tuon 21:26, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
@Erutuon Thank you!Jonteemil (talk) 23:20, 17 October 2017 (UTC)