Wiktionary talk:Requests for verification

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The documentation of the "Requests for verification" process can be found at Wiktionary:Requests for verification/Header.

The entries listed on this page need to meet Wiktionary:Criteria for inclusion, which see.

Do not confuse with Wiktionary:Requests for deletion which calls into question other criteria than attestability. When an entry is listed on this page, contributors have one month to show that it is attested. Be aware that sometimes just one or two definitions of an entry are listed here, not the entry as a whole.

An RFV closes after a month with a keep or a delete. If the result is delete, the entry or the contested definitions are removed. When kept, the {{rfv}} or {{rfv-sense}} tag is removed, and the definitions should not be tagged again without a very good reason.

Entries are listed on this page by tagging them with {{rfv}}.

Archiving: Since the end of 2009, verification debates are archived to the entry's talk page even if the whole entry is deleted. If a word is speedily deleted without much discussion, there's usually no need to archive it; it is the archiver's job to decide if there is enough "usable content" to merit an archive.

Archived discussions[edit]

Renaming the page[edit]


The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for moves, mergers and splits.

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, though feel free to discuss its conclusions.

Wiktionary:Requests for verification to Wiktionary:Requests for attestation

It seems that there is quite a bit of confusion about what RFV is really for. I was confused by it myself here, but someone suggested renaming the page. So I'm making the request here now. —CodeCat 13:08, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Support, I was the one that suggested it. Wiktionary talk:Requests for verification should mention the matter too. Mglovesfun (talk) 21:03, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
Oppose renaming this page via this obscure RFM process. Such a renaming has already been proposed once in BP, and it did not fare all that well. This is a matter for a BP and a vote, as "Wiktionary:Requests for verification" a major page for one of the most important processes Wiktionary has. --Dan Polansky 06:19, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
I don't think a formal vote is necessary if there is a discussion on the BP with a clear result. Or even a discussion here, advertised well on the BP, with a clear result.​—msh210 (talk) 16:02, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
But Dan, do you oppose the renaming of the page, or simply discussing the renaming here? --Mglovesfun (talk) 11:48, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
Support renaming that page, because the word "attestation" (and its varieties: attest, attested) is widely used and is more accurate than "verification" (and its varieties: verify, verified) in this context. However, I don't mind if the name "Wiktionary:Requests for verification" remains forever, as I'm used to it. And, like Dan, I oppose using this obscure RFM process to rename that widely used page. This proposal should undergo no less than a BP discussion and a vote before being implemented. --Daniel. 12:22, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
I don't care. But if it's renamed, the old name and redirects should remain redirects.​—msh210 (talk) 16:02, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
Re "Such a renaming has already been proposed once in BP" I seem to think Daniel. wanted to merge RFV and RFD into one "RFA" (as it were) which was a horrible idea and shot down in flames and rightly so. I've never seen a request to rename RFV on the Beer Parlor. Oh, and obviously the redirects should be kept; is {{rfa}} a free code? Mglovesfun (talk) 21:48, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
RFA is free, so no problems there. -- Prince Kassad 21:50, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Mglovesfun, you remind me to delete Wiktionary:Votes/2010-03/Requests for attestation; done. Although, I disagree that is was a "horrible idea and shot down in flames and rightly so". --Daniel. 10:07, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
Whatever we call the page, we will need to explain it to new users/contributors. "Verification" is 20 times more common in English than "attestation". Attestation is used of languages in linguistics, but I haven't found it in a linguistics glossary. The best definition I have found says that it is concerned with the verification of the existence of word forms. Our practice has been consistent with the text at the top of the RfV page which says we use for meaning as well. Thus it seems to me that we are only substituting one possible confusion for another. Consequently, Oppose. DCDuring TALK 00:30, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
Couple of things that bother me are:
  1. Commonness doesn't seem like a good criterion, otherwise why not Requests for the (the being the most common English word according to the#Statistics
  2. There is an explanation at the top of the RFV page, just I imagine people don't read it. The page is pretty massive, it's hard to blame people who miss it.
Mglovesfun (talk) 16:53, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
Which word is more likely to be adequate for most users without a look at the top of the page? (I'd bet "verification") Which will most likely not discourage users by seeming technical? (I'd bet "verification") Which is more likely to cause a user to look up the word or look at the top of the page? (I'd bet "attestation") Which is more misleading when looked up in mainspace? (I'd say, it's a draw: neither's common uses correspond to ours.)
Which of these considerations gives a clear advantage to renaming the page? Is there any other way we can make it easier for users to understand what we mean by RfV or RfA? DCDuring TALK 17:52, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
Don't we want the term that makes people look at the top of the page? (Otoh, that means it should be called Wiktionary:Please read the prologue of this page to see what it's all about (WT:PRTPOTPTSWIAA).)​—msh210 (talk) 18:01, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
Support renaming to Wiktionary:Please read the prologue of this page to see what it's all about. —RuakhTALK 18:27, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
I support, too, renaming to Wiktionary:Please read the prologue of this page to see what it's all about. --Daniel 06:02, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
I'll oppose Wiktionary:Please read the prologue of this page to see what it's all about, on the grounds if I don't, it might actually happen. Mglovesfun (talk) 00:16, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Support Attestation is the clear, correct term, and the common one in lexicography. Verification is useful to explain its meaning to someone learning about lexicography. One can't even get started without reading our explanation, so what's the point of dumbing down our language? Just look at the complicated, specialized wikitext of any entry; using a correct title here is around 10,000th on the list of biggest obstacles for a new editor. Michael Z. 2012-01-27 15:50 z

Closing, as per Wiktionary:Votes/2012-01/Renaming_requests_for_verification. --Dan Polansky (talk) 15:04, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Current discussions[edit]