User talk:70.172.194.25

• Special:RandomInCategory/Requests for etymologies in English entries
• Good talk on proto-Indo-European
• [1]

    Reasons dictionaries are fun. Mostly obvious and unoriginal.

Humans make up words when we want to refer to things (objects, actions, concepts, both real and hypothetical) that are frequently encountered or significant in some way. So, a catalogue of words is also a catalogue of things that people deem worthy of assigning names. By learning a word for a concept you were not familiar with, you also learn of the existence of said concept. By learning a word for a concept you were familiar with, but had no name for, you gain the ability to refer to it without circumlocution, and in the process inform other people of the word. By learning that the same word refers to multiple concepts, when you were previously only familiar with its use for a subset of those, you may infer that there is some kind of relationship, perhaps metaphorical or figurative. (At least when the senses fall under the same etymology.) By learning a new word for a concept you already had a word for, you acquire a way to vary your vocabulary. (This is probably what most people think dictionaries are for, right? Along with proscribing 'incorrect' usage.) Etymology is a fascinating subject. It can document, with a little bit of educated guessing, how a word evolved from some ancient protolanguage thousands of years ago to its contemporary form. But it also encompasses the study of how recent (or old) slang and jargon came into being, which often involves specific cultural references or historical events. Which languages borrowed from which others may give an indication of past contacts between cultures. Which words existed in ancient languages tells you what concepts existed and mattered to those ancient peoples. Which languages share a common ancestor may tell you that the original speaker groups share one too (but this is admittedly far from a perfect metric). It is interesting to see how systematic or irregular phonological changes have reshaped a word over time, possibly resulting in a considerably different pronunciation from its first attested or reconstructed form. Often a word or root changes meaning over the course of its evolution, sometimes multiple times, and the relationship between the meanings can vary from obvious to opposite to confounding. Sometimes one language has multiple words of the same ultimate origin that have different meanings and were derived through different pathways (doublets). Or a word may be seen as belonging to a word family deriving from the same root, whose connection may not even be obvious to native speakers. Some people even claim the more obvious derivations and affixes can be fun, although further research is needed. Translations can be revealing in many ways: If a high proportion of the translations are borrowed from one source, that tells you they may not have had native words for the concept. It also sometimes indicates that the concept itself may be new. On the other hand, a translation whose derivation is unique may have a surprising story to tell. Sometimes translations are not an exact bijection. Some languages may have no term for a thing because the thing does not exist in that culture. There could also be a difference between where languages draw delineating lines between clusters of things, even if the things themselves are the same.

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Enjoy your stay at Wiktionary! --Apisite (talk) 21:00, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your good contributions. You should definitely create an account. —Svārtava ^{[t•c•u•r]} 05:20, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

I second this, really good editor, it would also make communicating (because pings don't work for IPs) and patrolling easier. Note that you could just write something like "I've formerly contributed as Special:Contributions/70.172.194.25" on your user page, so it's not like you lose the reputation so to speak associated with this IP, if that's what keeps you from creating an account. — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 19:21, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Thank you both for the appreciative words. However, I do feel comfortable with the status quo for now. 70.172.194.25 00:15, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

Hi, do consider creating an account, see the reasons at WT:WCA. It's a no-brainer, and has *literally* zero disadvantages while there are just so many advantages. —Svārtava ^{[t•c•u•r]} 08:40, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Speech acts

I replied on my talk page. Equinox ◑ 18:32, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Thank you!

Thank you for finding all these cites for the words on Fay Freak's page! — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 07:36, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Wow, I am impressed with the Dol finds. I'm just not that good of an editor! Keep up the great work. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 01:42, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the kind words. :) What I did was search for "Dol" in combination with "Lop county" (which brought up the Amnesty citation) and then "Khotan" (which brought up the other one). 70.172.194.25 01:55, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Speedy-deletion

Hey, you can tag obvious errors like Category:Terms derived from the Proto-Indo-European root *- with {{delete}} so that any admin can speedily remove it; there is no need to take such pages to RFD. And thanks for the top-quality edits! :) —Svārtava ^[t•u•r] 08:59, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

Note about coinage categories

Just a quick note that when a person or group has only coined a single term we generally don't want or keep a category for their coinage. This is to generally avoid cluttering categories like Category:English coinages and to make them more useful directories. The can be done at entries like acrodendrophily by adding |nobycat=1 to {{coinage}}, as I did here. Thanks and take care. —The Editor's Apprentice (talk) 19:34, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Oh, yes, I am aware of that (and |w=-) now. I must have either not been aware at the time, or it was just an oversight. Thank you for catching it. 70.172.194.25 20:44, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Could you check some of these?

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Backinstadiums

Thanks in advance --Backinstadiums (talk) 11:08, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

Yes! :) 70.172.194.25 11:24, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

@70.172.194.25: I think you'll definitely find most of them interesting. But there're literally hundreds!

Still, you're feedback will yield constructive criticism

If you create a profile we can thank your contributions.

Thanks in advance. Backinstadiums (talk) 12:21, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

BTW, you might also wanna add your two cents here: https://stackexchange.com/users/3401478/gjc?tab=activity --Backinstadiums (talk) 12:25, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

Resources

If you need any resources (academic books, lexicographic or otherwise) please let me know! --Backinstadiums (talk) 19:13, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

I will pay you money

to create an account. lol Equinox ◑ 07:12, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

Me 2, love the excellent work! --Geographyinitiative (talk) 14:27, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

Concerning Talk:Yilkiqi, thanks for pointing these out. My lazy thought today was that I had already looked through all the Google Books results in 2020 or 2021, so I assumed there would be nothing. Keep up your good work! --Geographyinitiative (talk) 01:28, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

ty Equinox ◑ 05:00, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Pathetic ? Backinstadiums (talk) 23:22, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

Huh? 70.172.194.25 16:39, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Nice to see "Backinstadiums" finally found a Backbone® that wasn't stolen from Microsoft® Encarta™. Equinox ◑ 17:26, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Well, regardless of their sourcing, I appreciate their efforts. And yours, obviously. There's nobody pathetic here IMO.

Anyway, you still owe me a prize of some undetermined sort for Talk:half past seven is the bottom of the barrel. I have not forgotten. :P 70.172.194.25 17:43, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Wasn't your prize a free Wiktionary account? ;-) Theknightwho (talk) 20:59, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

I used to hang around an old Usenet group where the prize for anything particularly clever was "50p and a packet of Rolos". In old times I'd just send you that :D However the modern Internet is scary and we can't swap postal addresses any more. Maybe I'll leave it in the old hollow oak tree. Equinox ◑ 21:59, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

wild life

Hi - I’ve just noticed your change to wild life. I actually decided against using the figuratively/idiomatically template because I don’t think it is - it’s just a set phrase, coming out of specific uses of the words wild (sense 1) and life (sense 3). To solve the issue, do you think it’s worth adding an option into the template to say something like “used other than as a set phrase, see”? Theknightwho (talk) 18:17, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Sure. An option could be added to {{&lit}} to say that. Or just feel free to revert my change. (I did not know it was a deliberate decision.) 70.172.194.25 18:28, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Seems it's a protected template, so I'll make a request and revert your change for the time being. Theknightwho (talk) 18:39, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

chubby bunny

As I don't have a way to alert you: I replied to your question at Talk:chubby bunny. Probably not very excitingly. Enjoy. Equinox ◑ 00:42, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Good work

Just wanna say you've really been kicking ass everywhere I see you. I know everyone's pressuring you into making an account, and I guess I shan't, but just know we appreciate your work, lol. Vininn126 (talk) 09:22, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Seconding this. Theknightwho (talk) 15:57, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for your votes of confidence. :-) 70.172.194.25 17:04, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Agree too, great work; just as a question, though, why are you not creating an account? —Svārtava (t/u) • 06:05, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

New issue with {{senseno}}

Replied. 70.172.194.25 06:32, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Barnstar

		Barnstar
		For all of your hard work the past few months and the brilliant new template you developed, {{senseno}}! Graham11 (talk) 06:45, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! :) I am happy that my contributions have been of value. 70.172.194.25 07:17, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Re: removal of root

(continuing here since I can't ping you; please reply here only if you do.) Per User talk:Bhagadatta/2021#Categorization by roots, we do not categories compounds by the roots of its individual components to avoid redundancy (it was something even I used to do earlier, but stopped doing so after that discussion). Moreover, it is sort of superfluous to categorise English terms by Sanskrit roots, e.g., diff. —Svārtava (t/u) • 14:27, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Fair enough, I'll stop adding Sanskrit roots to English words if desired, and you can revert the ones I added. (But there may be some value in checking them, since in some cases the Sanskrit/Hindi word, or morpheme in a compound, was not categorized under the root yet.)

Anyway, I personally have seen {{root}} used (by others) more similarly to {{der}} than {{inh}} in practice. For example, while I added the Sanskrit root here, there was already a PIE root listed, which is both non-inherited and part of a compound, and at least as unkosher. (And probably to be consistent, चित् (cit) should have been added too if any roots are to be added, but I wasn't entirely sure since चित्त (citta) doesn't list it; I tried to be conservative and not introduce errors, although I did add 'synchronic roots' when mentioned in etymology sections.) Plus there are words in Sanskrit itself like चिच्छक्ति (cicchakti) which have compound roots, but maybe that is just an error.

If anything, it's less unreasonable to categorize borrowed compounds by roots than to do so for inherited words. A reader could have a legitimate interest in seeing all the words that directly belong to a root in Sanskrit, without dozens of compound proper nouns and such acting as clutter, but that concern doesn't really apply to English. First of all, the constituent parts may not exist in English (so we could not list them under descendants). Secondly, all the words are borrowed anyway, so making this distinction doesn't seem as important. And someone with that interest could always check the Sanskrit root page and category. Finally, someone who is primarily interested in English with a passing interest in Sanskrit might find a list of Latin-script "budh" words easier to navigate and make sense of.

And I don't see how categorizing English terms by Sanskrit root is any worse than doing so for Tamil, Telugu, Gujarati, Kannada, or other languages that are not descendants of Sanskrit; or for having Turkish words by Arabic root, etc. I also think that the categorization could be interesting for readers, providing a deeper understanding of the etymology and related terms, and doesn't actually cause harm.

But if it's inconsistent with accepted practice then of course I will not continue since I don't want to step on any toes. I'm glad I only got up to D. I did ask about the Arabic root categorization before I did it: Category talk:Terms by Arabic root by language, but maybe it wasn't a good venue. 70.172.194.25 14:39, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Alright, good points. Having had some discussion about this with Bhagadatta, it's up to the editor's preference in these stuffs, and with the excellent point you put forth that “the constituent parts may not exist in English (so we could not list them under descendants)”, you could continue with that (plus that's make categories like Category:Terms derived from the Sanskrit root दृश् more useful). Thanks! —Svārtava (t/u) • 08:21, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for clearing that up. (Btw, if you had decided the other way, I would have been happy to help remove the tags and migrate the info to an appendix or something.) 70.172.194.25 02:47, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Captcha

You may or may not have had to fill out that captcha cause you're editing from an IP. Not that I'm trying to convince you to make an account or anything. nope, definitely not. Vininn126 (talk) 19:36, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

But the edit was confusingly tagged with "added link", even though no link was added. My current best guess is that someone else had modified a template that was on the page to include a link, and in executing my edit it caused a purge that thereby added a link. I don't know for certain, though. 70.172.194.25 19:39, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Depending on the template, it may or may not add a link, might have just bugged out, hard to say. Vininn126 (talk) 19:40, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

@Vininn126: diff Chuck Entz (talk) 22:50, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Well that would explain it, then! Vininn126 (talk) 22:52, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

By the way, User:Vininn126, I'm really impressed by how nicely formatted and complete Polish entries are. I hope Wiktionary's coverage of other languages can be like that someday. 70.172.194.25 20:18, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

I appreciate that. I've been working hard to get them up to date. There's more I'd like to do, but one step at a time, right?~Keep up the good work, yourself. Vininn126 (talk) 20:25, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

what else you'd do? Backinstadiums (talk) 23:22, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

@Backinstadiums I have a wishlist on my userpage. Vininn126 (talk) 09:54, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you for your kind assistance. Regards. Prahlad balaji.test (talk) 03:19, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Module:senseno

I just fixed a pair of module errors at hobby horse that were caused by a hyphen and an apostrophe in two different sensids. The apostrophe was especially weird because when I inspected the sensid, I noticed that it was replaced by "%27", which apparently was interpreted as regex syntax. When I removed those characters from the sensids and the corresponding sensenos, everything worked perfectly (here's the diff where it was broken). I don't know a lot about regexes, but I suspect you may need to escape the text from the entry before you run the regex on it. After all, entries can contain pretty much any combination of characters that isn't prohibited by wikisyntax rules. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:09, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

(The above was resolved quickly after posting.) 70.172.194.25 15:43, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

Paris

I can't send you thanks, but thanks! All good. Theknightwho (talk) 10:35, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for checking. :) 70.172.194.25 14:13, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

Template:surface analysis

Hi, regarding your recent edit adding |notext=: I don't think that'll be used since the text itself is the sole purpose of the template, and using it without the text makes it just the exact same as {{affix}}. This might be useful if we have categories like Category:LANG terms with surface analysis (so one could use |notext= to retain the categorisation) but that isn't there as yet. Cheers, —Svārtava (t/u) • 03:42, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, I realized that immediately after. Feel free to undo. It might be something we eventually want to distinguish, but there are a huge number of surface analyses using {{af}} already and that's not going to change anytime soon.

We do make a distinction between {{cog}} and {{noncog}}, for example, despite the output being identical, so it would not be unprecedented to do something like that. 70.172.194.25 03:48, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

That's a good point, though I'm not sure editors would take the pain of typing |notext=1. I like the idea of a surface analysis category, I'll discuss it on WT:Discord (feel free to join also if you like!) and take it to BP if it gains support. —Svārtava (t/u) • 03:57, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, making a category for terms that have surface analyses is not unreasonable. A step further would be creating an entire parallel system of "X words suffixed with -Y by surface analysis" categories, but that would create a lot of bloat for uncertain benefit. Anyway, I agree that typing {{af}} is more convenient. All in all, I think the status quo prior to my edit yesterday was fine, it was probably misguided idealism. I wouldn't oppose the simple "LANG terms with surface analysis" category idea though. 70.172.194.25 04:14, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

I tried joining the Wiktionary IRC channel out of curiosity, multiple times, but nobody was ever there except idlers/lurkers. Maybe someday I'll try Discord, which I'm less familiar with. Of course, it may be a good idea to keep important discussions on-wiki regardless, as a matter of record-keeping and transparency. 70.172.194.25 04:26, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

I really like Wiktionary:Discord server for quick conversations and requests. A year back when I joined it I was also quite unfamiliar to Discord, never having used it before. It'd be nice to have you there! —Svārtava (t/u) • 04:32, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Citations:orgygoer

I bet you loved searching for those quotes! Kinky little devil, 70! Zumbacool (talk) 01:12, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Ring font

Hey, I noticed your contribution and link to your font to display the ring symbols better. Do you have a web embedding version of it? It's not possible to use on phones or devices that deny installing fonts. PS: I embed many fonts to Wikimedia projects on my own custom CSS. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 03:16, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, it would be really easy to convert it to WOFF, and even to make a Base64 data URI that could be placed in a CSS file. I haven't checked back on that thread until now. 70.172.194.25 03:25, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

@Mahmudmasri:

Try this:

@font-face {
  font-family: 'LegibleHalfRings';
  src:
    url('data:@file/octet-stream;base64,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')
    format('woff2');
}
[lang="ar-Latn"] {
  font-family: LegibleHalfRings, sans-serif;
}

Btw, could you vouch on the main thread that this solution works? (If there's interest I could tweak the font to improve the display even more, e.g. spacing, but it seems we're likely to be switching away from these characters the way the thread is going.) 70.172.194.25 03:42, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks so much. How to fit that in my custom CSS with the @import url(' format? You see, I already embedded dozens of fonts. I know the rest. Let me just make it work for me before suggesting it to the others. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 03:50, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

You can just copy/paste the whole thing I wrote above, verbatim, into your custom CSS. The point of the long string in the middle is that the font data is entirely contained there (it's really small). I could alternatively host it somewhere externally, and then you could do @import the external URL, but I don't have a hosting provider or anything... 70.172.194.25 03:58, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

It didn't work. I was hoping for something to convert your code to something Wikimedia would be able to deal with. Something like:

@import url('https://fonts.cdnfonts.com/css/freemono');

This didn't work, attempt 1, attempt 2 +. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 04:25, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

@Mahmudmasri: You didn't actually copy what I wrote verbatim, you changed it. But now I have changed it to use the format you are used to. I realized I could just use my own userspace here as a web host. Try this (don't forget the second line):

@import url("https://en.wiktionary.org/w/?action=raw&ctype=text/css&title=User_talk:70.172.194.25/Sandbox.css");

[lang="ar-Latn"] { font-family: LegibleHalfRings, sans-serif; }

I tested and this works in both Chromium and Firefox. Regards, 70.172.194.25 05:19, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

That last one worked. Thanks. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 06:02, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Hooray! 70.172.194.25 06:18, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Template:multitrans

Please see history for the correct way to use this template. You can't just add it; you need to convert {{t}} to {{tt}} and {{t+}} to {{tt+}}. Benwing2 (talk) 06:29, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

@Benwing2 Thanks and sorry. I'll definitely be sure to do that in the future, and I'll fix any wrong invocations. (I think I didn't notice the problem because adding multitrans by itself seemed to get rid of the memory errors and didn't change the visible output. But I should have read the documentation all the way to the end.) 70.172.194.25 06:47, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

@Benwing2 I added a very basic check for this to the multitrans module and now CAT:E is filling with other examples of people misusing the template in this way (including the very author of the module :P). I guess I'm not the only one! 70.172.194.25 06:53, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

I found the reverse problem too, which is arguably quite a bit worse because it actually produces unreadable content. I'll write a script to do a more thorough search to see if there are any other pages with that issue. 70.172.194.25 07:19, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for doing this. Didn't realize I did this mistake myself :) ... Benwing2 (talk) 07:39, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Todo/Rare IA terms/A-Z

Note the bluelink. Chuck Entz (talk) 21:20, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

@Chuck Entz: Thanks very much, I appreciate it! However, I already had found a workaround by splitting it into two (A-K and L-Z), and that's actually more manageable in terms of page size anyway, so I guess this can be deleted. Cheers. 70.172.194.25 21:31, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Sorry

Apologies for the accidental rollback. —Svārtava (talk) • 05:45, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

No worries. :) 70.172.194.25 05:47, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

Thank you!

At first I thought you were a random IP user who vandalizes on Wiktionary, when I saw your reply about that Hungarian template 😆
Your idea and the code changes you've made solves the problem, rendering the words correctly. I don't know who are the admins who need to approve that, but I think that at least 2 of the people I pinged have administrator permissions. Gorec (talk) 23:54, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

Happy to help! 70.172.194.25 05:20, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Not specific to WMF—no doubt you're right, and that's actually what drove my edit

Moved to Talk:interwiki#Origin_is_outside_WMF. Quercus solaris (talk) 06:06, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi

I'll respond to your kind offer here, since you're just using an IP address. In terms of ideas, at this point it seems the main issue is the dearth of Lithuanian terms with entries. I am assuming that high quality entries are in most cases preferable to simple gloss entries, even if simple glosses may be even better than nothing at all. The current barriers which I see preventing a user of little to modest experience such as myself from diving straight into that without butchering it (and this evidently applied to many languages besides Lithuanian) would be: a) not knowing where to start and; b) not having a convenient place to get an overview of the various templates used for Lithuanian. The former point has led me to attempt to tidy up and expand the Frequency lists, though it remains to be seen if the end result will have justified my meddling. To address the latter point however, I propose expanding WT:ALT to include any further relevant templates or other considerations which are not readily evident. That is, how might someone with access to a decent grammar and/or dictionary translate this information into a worthwhile wiktionary entry? I was going to sit down one day and try to comb through some entries to glean the usage of specific template, but if you are already familiar with any of these and might have a chance to give some input on this, even if it's as simple as pointing me to some entries for each word class which you hold as exemplary, that would be a great help. Helrasincke (talk) 02:18, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

@Helrasincke: Sorry for the delay, took a break from Wiktionary for a few days. For headword templates:

• {{lt-noun}} and {{lt-adj}} have decent documentation already, although I think the documentation was written before linking templates could automatically strip diacritics from entry names, so it would be simpler to write {{lt-adj|gražì|gražù|4|m=gražùs}} instead of {{lt-adj|graži|gražu|4|f=gražì|m=gražùs|n=gražù}}.
• Less well documented are {{lt-adv}} and {{lt-verb}}. The adverb one only takes one unnamed parameter, which is the stem for the comparative/superlative forms (for example, greitai => greič => greičiaũ), and it also accepts |head= for the accented form of the headword, e.g. gerai has {{lt-adv|ger|head=geraĩ}}. If the unnamed parameter is omitted, then no comparative or superlative is given. The verb template takes the third-person present and past forms as unnamed parameters, as well as |head=.

Whereas the headword templates are pretty decent, the declension and conjugation templates are a mess, IMHO.

• The way the noun declension templates are supposed to work is that you choose a template that fits the gender, ending, and accent class of the word in question. For example, bernas uses {{lt-noun-m-as-3}}. Then the first parameter is the stem without any accents, and the second parameter is the stem with the accent, e.g. {{lt-noun-m-as-3|bern|bérn}}. There are special templates like Template:lt-noun-m-tis-1 to handle cases where *tio becomes čio, etc.
• The adjective templates are similar to those for nouns.
• The verb conjugation templates are probably even more confusing. The numerical class depends on the third-person present and past endings, i.e., a/o = 1, i/o = 2, o/ė = 3. Then the first unnamed parameter is the present tense stem, the second is for the past stem, and the third is for the past frequentative/future/imperative stem (generally just the infinitive minus -ti, although there are ways to specify exceptions, e.g. see how it's handled on bėgti). The mixed templates are for verbs that don't follow any one of these patterns fully, e.g. ieškoti ends with o in both the present and the past, so it uses {{lt-conj-mixed|...|past=1|pres=3}}. The circum templates are used for verbs that have stress on the ending. As with nouns there are separate templates like Template:lt-conj-3-d-circum for cases where *diau becomes džiau, etc. The r templates are for reflexive verbs.

I'm not even sure there are templates for every declension type. For example, berniukas has the vocative as berniuke, but you're much more likely to encounter berniuk, and I couldn't find any specialized -(i)ukas declension template. I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of entries were using slightly wrong declension or headword templates instead of correct ones that actually do exist, as e.g. the recently created entry drėgmėmatis provides the plural *drėgmėmatiai instead of drėgmėmačiai.

It would probably be a good idea to completely rewrite and overhaul all of these templates in Lua along the lines of the Slavic (e.g., Russian) and Romance (e.g., Italian) modules. But this would be a complicated undertaking compared to working within the current system. I might be willing to spearhead or assist with a Lua implementation, if desired. 70.172.194.25 01:25, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for this, I really appreciate the detail. I'll try to incorporate this information over the next little while. While we're on the topic, I can't work out what {{Template:lt-grammar tag}} is used for. I was able to document the parameters, but it's not clear where it's used and whether anyone actually has to interact with it.

Regarding your suggestion of a complete overhaul, that seems sensible, at least as a medium to long-term goal. I don't have any experience in Lua, so while I'd be interested to contribute in what way I can, I'd be reliant on yourself and others in order to get this underway. But I've had a look at {{Module:ru-verb}}, {{Module:ru-noun}}, {{Module:it-verb}}, {{Module:de-verb}}, {{Module:de-noun}} and might try playing around a bit. I'll probably hold back on documenting templates though if they'll end up being superseded. Helrasincke (talk) 01:27, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

@70.172.194.25, Helrasincke: I've now switched drėgmėmatis over to the {{lt-noun-m-tis-1}} template. As for berniukas, I've now added a parameter |vs= to override vocatives. With -(i)ukas, I'm not clear what the rules are for not using -e for the vocative. Does it apply to inanimates? Does it apply to animals? We may have to sort out the scope of {{lt-proper-noun-m-as}}. I think it's meant for personal names, but perhaps not. Someone changed the vocative singular ending from -ai to -e last year, which seems bizarre. For most of the -m-as-* templates, we can now override the vocative and use |n=s to restrict display to the singular. I'm currently going through converting most of the pluralia tantum to use standard inflection tables with |n=p; then I'll see about adding stress to the singularia tantum. There may be problems though, e.g. in finding out the stress pattern of Jõnas (“John”). I'm not even sure it's the same word as Jonas (“Jonah”) - I saw some odd looking forms in the Book of Jonah. --RichardW57m (talk) 16:37, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

@70.172.194.25, Helrasincke: I see that the approach has been inconsistent. Some place names are using {{lt-proper-noun-m-as}}, but @Apisite used both it and {{lt-noun-m-as-unc}} for Saturnas, presumably because the latter is the name of both a god and a planet. --RichardW57m (talk) 16:51, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

@RichardW57m: That template change does indeed appear erroneous. According to Ambrazas et al. (Lithuanian Grammar, 1997, pp. 110-112) the vocative for paradigm 1 nouns (-as following a hard consonant) is -e, however personal names belonging to this paradigm take -ai. They giving the following examples: Jõnai, Juõzai, Antãnai, Daũnorai. Furthermore, the book goes on to say that 1) "In colloquial Lithuanian this ending sometimes occurs in the vocative of common nouns as well, which is due to dialectal influence: vãbalai! (instead of vabale! [sic]) 'bug', žéntai! (cf. žénte!) 'son-in­ law', tė́vai! (cf. tė́ve!) 'father'. In colloquial Lithuanian the vocative of some per­sonal names of this declension can also be formed without any ending: Adõm! Póvil! Mýkol!". Helrasincke (talk) 19:20, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

And according to one paper, that last form has some occurrence restrictions that don't apply to the longer vocatives! Treating terms for family members like personal names is not unknown - compare the Latin contracted vocative singulars such as fīlī. --RichardW57 (talk) 06:08, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

@Helrasincke:: Having changed the place names to use a different template, I've now reverted the change. Now to RfV the vocatives I created on the basis of the modified template. :-{ --RichardW57m (talk) 15:49, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Fixing Category talk:hu:All topics

Module:Sandbox/hu-cat-tree has stopped working. Do you think we could exclude some more types of categories to make it work again? I tried adding provinces, regions, and counties, but to no avail… Adam78 (talk) 10:32, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

@Adam78: Is the quick fix I provided sufficient for now? Sorry for the delay. 70.172.194.25 01:32, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Yes! Thank you very much. I appreciate it a lot. Thanks to this overview, I found a couple of categories that could be populated and created. Adam78 (talk) 12:46, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Template:str index-lite/logic

Just a heads up that you need to be careful to check whether it's a combining character that's causing the error to be thrown by this, as C̬ is C + U+032C. I've updated the switch table. Theknightwho (talk) 01:16, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

@Theknightwho: Thanks for the note! I had realized that adding it to str index-lite/logic didn't seem to do anything, and was left scratching my head, and decided to just remove the lite template call to get rid of the error. But now it makes perfect sense. 70.172.194.25 01:59, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Template:rfdef

The langname parameter is no longer necessary to save memory with this, by the way. I simply set it to use Template:langname-lite a few days ago. Theknightwho (talk) 06:58, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Good to know! 70.172.194.25 06:59, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Citation request

I have a very particular request, and unfortunately I'm not sure how many editors would be able to make use of it, but I hope it won't be too big of a project. My hope is to take the scripts for auto-formatting google groups and scholar in codemonkey for chrome and use it for polona.pl. If we look at a newspaper and book, we can see the left panel has all of the bibliographic information, hopefully it should be possible to modify the existing code to look at those fields and fill out the needed requirements. This would speed up my editing by I'm not sure how much, but a lot. Vininn126 (talk) 21:25, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

@Vininn126: I will try to get around to this! 70.172.194.25 22:43, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ping me. Vininn126 (talk) 22:51, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

I just realized it might be better to make the buttons work from this page. Vininn126 (talk) 23:45, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

I hope to see you back someday

I've been checking every few months to see if there are any new edits from this IP address or your other one, and I've been telling myself you're probably just busy, but it's been quite a while now. I hope all is well. Best wishes, —Soap— 21:37, 2 September 2023 (UTC)