User talk:Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV/Archive1

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Hi there. Etruscan nouns must use the Etruscan alphabet. See the contents of Category:Etruscan nouns for some examples. SemperBlotto 22:07, 24 January 2011 (UTC)


Hello, and welcome to Wiktionary. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here! By the way, you can sign your comments on talk (discussion) pages using four tildes, like this: ~~~~, which automatically produces your name (or IP number if you're not signed in) and the current date and time. If you have any questions, then see the help pages, add a question to one of the discussion rooms or ask me on my talk page.​—msh210 (talk) 20:31, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

alles gut[edit]

There is a discussion on the possible deletion of your entry in here. Would you like to join the discussion to defend your entry? --Hekaheka 12:58, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Descendants of corona, etc.[edit]

Do you see why this should be alphabetically organized yet? Indented lists of descendants quickly become very messy and unusable. --EncycloPetey 19:09, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

I disagree, but ok then. Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 01:14, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Portuguese words starting with C[edit]

Hooray! :) :) :) --EncycloPetey 02:45, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! I hope to get rid of Category:Tbot entries (Portuguese) by the end of the year. Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 03:05, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Category:Portuguese verbs needing conjugation[edit]

Could you fix a few of these, please? Some of these may need completely new conjugation templates. If so and you can't figure out how to do it yourself, I can just about do it. See {{pt-verb/ler}} for an example. Mglovesfun (talk) 14:14, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

I'll do it. I have created conjugation templates before ({{pt-verb/subir}}, {{pt-verb/pedir}}). Please let me know if there is anything wrong with them. Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 14:28, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Done Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 22:49, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

User name[edit]

Do you think you could consider a different user name? I find the idea of talking to Tolkien's evil giant spider that eats everything she can and spits darkness rather uncomfortable. --Dan Polansky (talk) 10:01, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

I hoped the huge Roman number without any obvious meaning was scary enough. Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 17:58, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
Funnily enough, I just came here to ask about the 2764. What is it? Equinox 23:22, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
It's the year I created this account, in AUC (= 2011). Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 23:28, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
Since Rome was founded on 21st April, shouldn't it be MMDCCLXIII? By the way, I consider refusal to talk to giant evil spider's to be racist and I am quite happy to speak with you myself. SpinningSpark 13:34, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
LMAO! Thanks! But the AUC system doesn’t take the day Rome was founded into account, only the year. Same thing with the Anno Domini system, it kept the traditional new year instead of any particular event in Jesus’ life. Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 15:09, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Archimedes RFV[edit]

Hi. Just to clarify: when you voted Keep for Archimedes, you did realise that the RFVed sense was the 1990s brand of microcomputer, and not the famous Ancient Greek, right? Equinox 01:29, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but I'd probably vote the same if it was the Ancient Greek. Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 01:53, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Nasal vowels[edit]

Hi, I would like to know what /õ/ and /ẽ/ sound like, as they are (apparently) used in Old French, and I would like to be able to imagine them in my head. Can you if possible find Portuguese audio files which use them? Thanks, Mglovesfun (talk) 20:47, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay. I couldn't find any good ones so I recorded my own (for ontem, /ˈõ.tẽ/). Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 21:49, 25 March 2012 (UTC)


I happened to notice that the formatting you've used is a bit backwards. Synonyms are given as a single-line list, separated by commas. Related words are given as separate items in the form of a bulleted list.

With the lengthy list of synonyms you've got, you might consider starting a separate page in the Wikisaurus. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:39, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Bother! I'll have to fix a lot of edits I made then, as I've started using this formatting some months ago (I am using single-line only for semantic relations with less then 6 terms); I guess I need to re-read ELE.
I didn't really think about wikisaurus; I'm taking a look at some examples and it's quite confusing. If I move all the semantic relations in insulto to a Wikisaurus page, how would I format insulto? If I link to it from the Synonyms header, how will the reader know that there are also antonyms?
Thanks for the notification. Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 01:52, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
I don't often work in Wikisaurus, but listen shows how Wikisaurus can be linked. I assume that it antonyms also appear, then the Wikisaurus page should also be linked under an Antonyms header. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:12, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
I removed all synonyms tables (although I might have missed some). Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 23:19, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Request for tokens[edit]

Thank you for the support on the sparsely documented languages initiative. (Failed vote)

In response to Dan Polansky's request for actual tokens (word examples), I am gathering examples. You specifically mentioned Hunsrik as a language that would benefit from this vote. I don't want to claim that all the Hunsrik words on Wiktionary would benefit from a new proposal, but could you provide guidance on which of them would? Also, if you have any other examples in other languages that would benefit from this proposal, I would greatly appreciate that information. I will use it in the new proposal. BenjaminBarrett12 (talk) 23:50, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Take a look at Category:Hunsrik nouns, I added all those words and they all have quotations. Hunsrik only gained a standard orthography in 2008, with Ursula Wiesemann’s academic paper “Contribuição ao desenvolvimento de uma ortografia da língua Hunsrik falada na América do Sul”. Before her paper, all material published by Hunsrik writers was written in Standard German, or in imitation (I've seen, for example, Frischtick, from German Frühstück), mostly song lyrics. As I said in the vote page, there is almost no published material in Hunsrik. In the standard orthography there are (as far as I know) only two short tales (about 15 lines each) inside Wiesemann’s paper, an extremely short comic book (5 pages if I remember correctly), and two chapters of the Bible (Luke and Genesis). I’m not even sure if the Bible chapters were actually published; they were being hosted in a now expired website about Hunsrik which claimed they were published, but only the author’s name was given.
If someone decided to RFV every Hunsrik term we have, I’m sure that most if not all of them would go. This isn’t some minor language, there are 3 million speakers according to the Ethnologue.
As for other languages, I’m not familiar with any in a similar situation. Although I remember hearing something about a project for publishing works in w:Kaingang language, but I don’t was the result of that project. Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 00:43, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
Thank you so much! I didn't want to say that pretty much everything in Hunsrik couldn't be attested, but this information gives a solid basis. I've got a few other languages I'm working on with other Wiktionarians and some other sources. :) BenjaminBarrett12 (talk) 02:47, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

tomar o peso[edit]

There's a deletion debate over fr:tomar o peso, but I don't think fr: has a Portuguese speaker, could you possibly comment? Thank you. Mglovesfun (talk) 13:38, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

I don’t know about French Wiktionary’s CFI, but it it was here, I would vote to delete it. Tomar is one of those words with dozens of meanings, one of which is “to measure some characteristic of an object”. For example, you can say tomar o peso (to measure the weight), tomar o comprimento (to measure the length), tomar a medida (to measure). Note however that tomar o peso is one of the most common collocations. Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 18:17, 10 May 2012 (UTC)


Is that pronunciation for ornamento? Ultimateria (talk) 04:11, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for noticing. I wasn’t paying enough attention. Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 04:15, 5 June 2012 (UTC)


Is the correct plural bênçãos? --Maria.Sion (talk) 09:36, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, that is correct. It’s an exception. Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 13:04, 11 June 2012 (UTC)


Hi. Could you help out with the etymology here? And I guess a Portuguese entry is useful too

Yes check.svg Done. Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 13:47, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Ah, you deleted your opinions[edit]

Dear Kettle, I think this is a pity! Regards, Pot. Equinox 21:59, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

It took me a while to understand what you meant. Although I still hold the same opinions, I was afraid I’d change my mind and forget to edit my userpage, that’s why I deleted them.— Ungoliant (Falai) 22:10, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
According to wiki law, opinions are only bindingly valid on the date on which they were written. I just checked with Jimmy boy Wales. P.S. He wants his lawn-mower back. Equinox 22:16, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
Oh crap, his lawn-mower is missing. Call the Internet, this is serious business! — Ungoliant (Falai) 01:42, 5 July 2012 (UTC)


Hi Ungoliant,

Would you be interested in being an admin? I'd be happy to nominate you, if so.

RuakhTALK 23:16, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes. Thank you. — Ungoliant (Falai) 23:29, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
O.K., then please visit Wiktionary:Votes/sy-2012-07/User:Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV for admin and accept the nomination. :-)   —RuakhTALK 23:35, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Category:Portuguese terms needing attention[edit]

I noticed you're nearing the end of the fixing-up of Portuguese tbot entries. Once you're done, can you have a stab at cleaning this one up? Thanks --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 01:47, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Sure. It’s going to take a few more days to finish the tbot entries though. — Ungoliant (Falai) 01:52, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
That's OK. It's waited a while; it can wait a couple more days. Thanks! --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 02:00, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

By the way, a minor thing: you can make your subpages update automatically on your userpage; to see how to do it, just check my userpage. Cheers! --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:43, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

I prefer having alternative titles displayed. But thanks anyway. — Ungoliant (Falai) 04:46, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
Ah, I don't know how to set that... ah well. --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:49, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Mentoring program for newbies[edit]

Okay, I've made some changes to the wording, though I'm not particularly committed to any of it. We always referred to protégés as mentees, which sounds less formal. If it's all right, I'm going to jump in and offer to mentor someone working on Wolof. --BB12 (talk) 03:26, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

By the way, does the etymology at mentee look good to you guys? --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:42, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
@Ungoliant: I think the wording is good. Do you want to release it into the wild, perhaps as a project?
@MK: I've never understood the entire scope of "back-formation"; Wikipedia indicates this was a simultaneous back-formation and suffix add-on, but I think people still use "back-formation" this way. I would quibble about the Latin suffix, though: Mentee was surely created through analogy with -ar/er/or and -ee pairs in English without recourse to the Latin. (I do think something this would be great in a newspaper article or blog entry, though!) --BB12 (talk) 05:03, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
Released! Well, I said Latinate, not Latin. I was trying to be careful. Should I remove it all the same? --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 05:25, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
You're right. That differentiation is very nice! --BB12 (talk) 05:59, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
... and announced! BTW I think the etymology is pretty good. — Ungoliant (Falai) 05:30, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
Great! You really shouldn't have given me credit, though. I can't really say I did much. --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 05:50, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Just so you know, I am building a list of new contributors in minority languages (first at User talk:BenjaminBarrett12#guinea pig, with more recent ones at WT:BBL). BB hasn't been able to keep up with these, so I thought that you would be interested - they generally need personalized greeting and someone who will watch their contributions (like you're doing now for the Adyghe speaker). Thanks! --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 23:28, 4 August 2012 (UTC)


Am I handling these different forms right? Ultimateria (talk) 17:05, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes. [[detective]] became obsolete in 2009 in Portugal and 1945 in Brazil. — Ungoliant (Falai) 17:08, 25 July 2012 (UTC)


If you haven't seen it yet, I left you an email, and I haven't noticed a reply. Feel free to respond here or there. Thanks --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 02:15, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Got it. Yup, I’m still interested in reviving the foreign word of the day. How shall we start? — Ungoliant (Falai) 15:27, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
The first step will be to build some infrastructure (I think we should model it after how EncycloPetey runs the English word of the day, not how the Foreign one used to be run).
  • First of all, do we want to still call it it the 'Word du Jour'?
  • Second, do we want to use focus weeks?
  • Third, do we want useful or unusual (or both)?
  • Fourth, make sure that you're in for this. I recommend you read User talk:EncycloPetey/Archive 10#WOTD question, where he explains how much work it is.

Once we decide these, we can build templates and pages, and ask in the Beer Parlour for approval. --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 17:15, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

  • I don’t. I prefer either “Foreign word of the day” (or similar) or something in Latin (“Verbum diei”? dunno).
  • I think we should have them only as suggestions.
  • Unusual, and entries with lots of information. Useful words are not particularly useful to the target audience, IMO. The target audience is people who are interested in foreign languages in general, as opposed to those learning this or that language. However, if we have target weeks for specific languages it might be better to have useful words during those weeks.
  • Im in, as long as you don’t leave all the work for me! College will be keeping me busier than usual the next few months, but this is worth of effort. Anyways, we should have some sort of back-up plan in case no one is around; maybe a huge list of definitions for the template to pick randomly if no word is set for the current day.
Another issue I must raise: when I posted in the BP about reviving this thing, there were some 3 words which had failed RFV/RFD. We must do something to prevent non-words from being nominated; maybe require at least one citation. — Ungoliant (Falai) 04:06, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
Great. All your decisions sound good to me. I've also got education in the way of my learning, but I'll manage it. My plan is to always have it lined up a week in advance. I'm traveling to see family tomorrow, and the train will have WiFi, so I'll write the guidelines based on this tomorrow. If I get to it, I'll also write/steal the templates. Once I do, I'll want your feedback here. --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 05:35, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
I have made some moves and additions. Luckily, we've got a big pile of old noms to go through before we need to add more. Please edit WT:Foreign Word of the Day/Nominations to your liking. I still have to fix up the templates. I'm thinking that we can present it in a couple days. Would you like to or should I? Also, how do you like the look of {{FWOTD}}? --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 18:54, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
Any idea what I did wrong at {{fwotd-nominee}}? The # is totally being misinterpreted in the code, and I don't know what to do. --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 16:02, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
What’s the 3rd parameter for? — Ungoliant (Falai) 16:12, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
The idea was that if you don't know that Hunsrik is {{hrx}}, you could just type another pipe and write out its name. --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 16:16, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
Fixed it. There is a template ({{langname}}) to handle that situation. Now the 3rd parameter is the display text. — Ungoliant (Falai) 16:22, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! I wasn't aware of that one. Did you see the concern about {{FWOTD}} I raised on my talkpage? --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 16:29, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes. I’ll work on it later today. — Ungoliant (Falai) 16:31, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
I'll try (and probably fail :) but oh well) myself first. --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 16:50, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

I created a vote proposal at User:Metaknowledge/FWOTD. Please edit it freely, and comment on its talkpage. Thanks! --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 14:58, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Can we move this to the WT:Votes already? This will force people to comment. If they still don’t comment we can add a start date. — Ungoliant (Falai) 02:19, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Ufology - visitor?[edit]

I used to read books about this stuff. They usually called any extraterrestrial being coming to Earth a "visitor". Is that a separate sense, or subsense? Might be. Equinox 23:29, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

It’s not a subsense of any current definition of visitor, as ETs are neither guests nor tourists (although one can only guess...). I say it can be created as a separate sense, but we need to find some good citations to prevent the existing senses from being changed to encompass alien visitors. I’ll see if I can find any. — Ungoliant (Falai) 23:39, 30 July 2012 (UTC)


Original Barnstar Hires.png Barnstar
Congratulations on making proper entries of all the pages in the entire Portuguese Tbot entries category. Very well done!

--Yair rand (talk) 02:45, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! I can hardly believe I’m done with it. — Ungoliant (Falai) 02:50, 1 August 2012 (UTC)


could you better explain that? I have often seen sense used never gloss.Lucifer (talk) 23:01, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Here is an example (for extraño):

# [[foreign]] {{gloss|from another country}}
# [[strange]] {{gloss|not normal}}

* {{sense|foreign}} [[forastero]]
* {{sense|strange}} [[diferente]]
When in doubt, read the template’s documentation. — Ungoliant (Falai) 23:09, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

and sense is for synonyms alt forms homonyms etc? how do i check a template's documentation?Lucifer (talk) 01:25, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Not alternative forms (use {{qualifier}} for that). Open the template in the Template: namespace (e.g. Template:term, Template:sense). — Ungoliant (Falai) 01:29, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm curious...[edit]

What does the number in your name mean? —CodeCat 02:02, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

See #User name. But if you’re up for a challenge, try to find out before looking!Ungoliant (Falai) 02:07, 7 August 2012 (UTC)


American Sign Language is a language of Canada, too.​—msh210 (talk) 08:39, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Many other languages have only one flag despite being used in several countries. I’m saving the most controversial choices for BP discussion, but if you know a better flag (or if you think no flag is better than the USA flag), feel free to fix it. — Ungoliant (Falai) 13:55, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
I think no flag is better than the USA flag. Likewise, I think no flag is better for Spanish than the Spanish flag, etc. See my comment of 7:33, 24 January 2011, at [[Wiktionary:Beer parlour archive/2011/January#New gadget]] and the two comments directly below it that agree with it.​—msh210 (talk) 20:41, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
You disagreement with the flags used goes beyond my recent edits then. I won’t mind if you contest and remove any I’ve added, as long as you provide good reasons for each removal, but changing the way flags are chosen will probably require BP discussion. — Ungoliant (Falai) 22:57, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
I'll hold off on protesting until someone proposes that the flags be visible by default.​—msh210 (talk) 13:15, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

FWIW, Español probably ought to have la bandera de la Hispanidad, and ASL would be better with a photo of someone's hands doing one of the motions (with a visual-only language, I think it's appropriate to replace the flag). --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 16:16, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

[edit conflict] Excellent idea for Spanish: this matches what was done for English (after discussion among several editors (on IRC IIRC)). I've effected it. Re sign languages, [1] is interesting.​—msh210 (talk) 20:20, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
@MK: that depends on whether the goal is to have the most accurate flag, or the most recognisable flag. If people saw the flag of Spain standing for a language, they'd probably correctly guess the language was "Spanish"; it they saw the Flag of the Hispanic People(s), they might not even recognise the flag. (Or perhaps I'm falling into the faux pas of w:WP:IDONTKNOWIT.) Compare the common use of the American or British flag, and the German flag, on the internet, to signify all English and all German, respectively. - -sche (discuss) 20:18, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
Exactly my thoughts. I use flags because they are an extremely useful visual aid when reading entries, not to accurately represent the language. Using a lesser known flag when a more known one is a valid choice is counterproductive, in my opinion. I must admit that I knew the Hispanic people flag, but that’s because I was into vexillology before I became a Wiktionarian. — Ungoliant (Falai) 20:25, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

{{new entry}}[edit]

I am trying to make a template that does the formatting for you, so that new editors in languages without much language infrastructure can add entries without worrying about getting the ELE order wrong. The only problem is that the #switch in the definition line doesn't work! For an example of it failing, see here. Do you know how to fix that? Thanks --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 17:02, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Check again. It needed an empty edit, dunno why. — Ungoliant (Falai) 17:22, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
Very strange. Thanks! --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 17:35, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

"hat trick"[edit]

Football isn't played on ice and they don't throw hats on the pitch when it happens. But it is still a commonly used term for three goals in a game. Purplebackpack89 (Notes Taken) (Locker) 00:35, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

See the third definition. — Ungoliant (Falai) 00:36, 12 August 2012 (UTC)


Instead of rudely defacing an improvement to an article like a jackass, why dont you link an editor to a guide that shows them how to do what you want? Or, heres a crazy idea, do it yourself. I dont care which, but I implore you to do one or the other. Metallurgist (talk) 09:06, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

If you think having an edit undone is rude, you’re gonna have a bad time. As I politely explained in the edit summary, we ask that terms be in their native script; I also made the same mistake as a beginner, but I didn’t go around insulting the contributors who undid my edits. If you don’t know Cuneiform script all you can do is add the translation as a transliteration and {{rfscript|Cuneiform}} next to it. — Ungoliant (Falai) 10:46, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Gothic gg[edit]

gg was often (but not always) pronounced ŋɡ in Gothic. But ŋ is not a phoneme, it is an allophone of n before a velar consonant. The pronunciation is written with slashes so it is a phonemic transcription, because we can't be sure of all the phonetic details. —CodeCat 18:15, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

Thank you for terminating lots of threads in Wiktionary:Requests for deletion! — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 13:16, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

No problem. It had been bothering me for a while as well. — Ungoliant (Falai) 15:20, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Choosing FWOTDs, and working out a plan[edit]

So, I think we have different opinions on the issue, and I want to explain. I think that we should avoid major terms in major languages, like linha or videō, because if you know Portuguese or Latin, they're boring, and a lot of people who come to Wiktionary know languages like those! I think ninho de geada or μετά or xtayn are better because they are rare or have unusual combinations of senses or are used in extremely localised languages. What do you think? --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 06:38, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

I agree, but I have a feeling we’ll have a hard time finding cited entries (just compare the amount of Symbol keep vote.svgs and Symbol delete vote.svgs). Major terms in major languages are easy to cite so we should have them as backups. — Ungoliant (Falai) 06:51, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
My life is going to become very crazy later this week, but I am willing to dig for cites. For example, I can cite and give the pronunciation for almost any real word in almost any Polynesian language, because I'm familiar with the literature. Why don't we go through the old nominations and cite them all? That will give us a large bank to choose from. I think we should strike through all the common words like 一一 and saluton, though, and not bother citing them. --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 07:00, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
We could do that, but I only trust myself citing the Romance and Germanic languages (except French). — Ungoliant (Falai) 07:36, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
Multi-sense terms aside, I should be able to cite without too much trouble (and there are always knowledgeable Wiktionarians to ask).
On an unrelated note, I was wondering if you have a plan for how should introduce the FWOTD. The first full day after the vote is September 7. Should we try to edit the main page exactly on UTC midnight? Or have the first word only get a partial day? Or can we set it to be blank on September 6 (so that it will auto-update on the 7th, but it won't produce the error message "tell us in the beer parlour that there is no word set for today")? Also, do you have any ideas for a meaningful first word to choose (maybe something like ineo)? --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 08:55, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
For the first two (or more, or less) weeks we should leave a note asking people to nominate words. — Ungoliant (Falai) 13:00, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
What would that look like? (You can use User:Metaknowledge/Main page2 to test it out, if you want.) --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 17:30, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
Check it out. — Ungoliant (Falai) 17:42, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
That looks great! Maybe that should be up for a week? (Of course, it still doesn't solve the problem of how we switch from manual formatting to automated update formatting.) --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 17:58, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
Should work now. — Ungoliant (Falai) 18:08, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks! That gave me an idea - when we determine that a widely unsupported script is used, like Gothic, and the image parameter is invoked in {{FWOTD}}, why can't the sized image override the headword (and somehow link to whatever it is all the same)? --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 18:21, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
Seems like punishing those who have the script. — Ungoliant (Falai) 18:38, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
More people don't have Gothic support than do. I'd guess it's a vast majority who don't among anons. --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 20:28, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
Gothic script works fine for me without any extra scripts. I oppose replacing the headword line with a picture; we already systematically include transliterations for the words, and there aren't that many people that care about Gothic script anyway. Those that do will surely have installed fonts or are willing to do so. —CodeCat 20:34, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
How about this: we just put a picture to the side and give a "pure" text headword, and then if anybody complains we can revisit the subject. --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 20:48, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
May I suggest uitprobeersel as the first word? It seems appropriate :) —CodeCat 13:17, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
I nominated it, but it needs cites. — Ungoliant (Falai) 16:55, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

RFD resolutions[edit]

Hi, thanks for taking time to close RFD discussions. I hope you don't mind that I've undeleted some earlier resolutions that I thought were made without a clearly expressed understanding of the counterpoints. Please allow another editor to finalize these. I would also ask that you not delete quotations when you delete a page. These are laborious to find and are often worth keeping. Only in a few cases has there been consensus to remove quotations. In the case of RFV, they are integral to the process. Cheers! DAVilla 01:53, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Ok. — Ungoliant (Falai) 01:58, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
I second the sentiment: thank you for taking the time to clean out RFD! - -sche (discuss) 02:17, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Extinct language proposal[edit]

As you might have seen, we have a proposal up to allow words from extinct languages based on a mention, provided a warning is included. I hope you will vote! Wiktionary:Votes/2012-08/Extinct_Languages_-_Criteria_for_Inclusion --BB12 (talk) 01:26, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

I’m still not sure what I’ll vote. If I voted now, it would be abstain. — Ungoliant (Falai) 13:55, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Portuguese manuals[edit]

My contact from the Peace Corps has been snowed under since she got back from vacation. She just responded and will be asking the local stations for the Portuguese manuals, which are the varieties spoken in Mozambique and Cabo Verde. Can you confirm that's what you're looking for? --BB12 (talk) 17:58, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Affirmative. Thank you, and tell her I am very grateful! — Ungoliant (Falai) 18:46, 23 August 2012 (UTC)


I have now proposed a vote. SpinningSpark 15:26, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Marking edits as patrolled.[edit]


When you undo an edit (as espediente?diff=17729466), or follow up with format-fixes, please remember to mark it as patrolled. Otherwise someone else will have to come along and look at the edit, and figure out that it's already been dealt with.

RuakhTALK 14:03, 29 August 2012 (UTC)