User talk:Onyx~enwiktionary
Welcome!
[edit]Hello, and welcome to Wiktionary. Here are a few good links for newcomers:
- How to edit a page is a concise list of technical guidelines to the wiki format we use here: how to, for example, make text boldfaced or make a hyperlink. The Wiktionary tutorial is a more wordy, multi-page document that helps you through those same formatting issues, and also touches on a couple of other issues relevant to editing.
- The document What Wiktionary is not may be of interest. In particular, if you've edited Wikipedia in the past, you should note that Wiktionary is not an encyclopedia and does not have Wikipedia-style page titles.
- There is a technical guide to how to start a new page. But you'll also want to look at our guidelines for how to format an entry (what goes where) and our criteria for inclusion (what can be included), which are our two main policy documents. (You can get a feel for how to format an entry by looking at existing entries.)
- The sandbox is a safe place for testing markup.
- The FAQ has, of course, some frequently (and some infrequently) asked questions, and their answers.
I hope you enjoy editing here! By the way, you can sign your comments on talk (discussion) pages using four tildes, like this: ~~~~
, which automatically produces your name (or IP number if you're not signed in) and the current date and time. If you have any questions, then see the help pages, add a question to one of the discussion rooms or ask me on my talk page.—msh210℠ (talk) 20:04, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
Some simple problems (I can't fix)
[edit]A couple of weeks back I harvested (on an 8-30 second delay) all the individual verb pages linked from Conjugation category pages.
Last night I ran a validation against my own conjugator. It examined 6933 verbs, looking only at the ones that appear directly (not as part of a compound) in the original 2007 v1 KOTUS list. Thus it skipped 430 verbs -- additions to the KOTUS list and verbs in types 77 and 78. It did not look at every individual form but looked at a sample devised to spot systematic errors such as the wrong strong, weak, or passive stem.
The vast majority of the pages validated just fine, as one would expect. However, there are a handful of error clusters described in sections below. I've spot-checked each family of error to see that it has not been corrected since I downloaded pages, and removed the groups that have since been corrected.
I don't know how to adjust the template invocations properly, so I am leaving these for more capable hands to correct. Onyx 17:50, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
- There are also a few discrepancies that require more of my attention before reporting or acquitting. Onyx 18:11, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
52-sanoa type
[edit](asennoitua, kasautua, laimentua, laiskiintua) these show -tun instead of -dun or -nun, etc. (piristäytyä) this shows -tdyn (tarpoa) this needs tarvo- for 1st person and passive forms (äveriöityä, öljyttyä) these show -nut and -tu Onyx 17:50, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
- I've fixed all of the above, but it might be good to check just to make sure. —CodeCat 20:05, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
- Checked and they all look good. Thanks. Onyx 02:26, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
61-sallia type
[edit]pykiä shows pykin instead of pyin Onyx 17:50, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
- The entry has two conjugation tables, one with pyin and one with pykin. Maybe pykin is an alternative form? —CodeCat 20:03, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
- Oops, I meant to check for that or for alternate entries in a single table but I missed this one. (My current program isn't looking for alternates.) To me this sounds like a plausible candidate for dual conjugations but I can't give a definitive answer on that. Presumably it has two tables because someone who does know created it with two. Onyx 02:33, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
- The first table (with pykin) sounds wrong to me. Other, more familiar similar verbs definitely do not have that form, e.g. nykiä -> nyin, sukia -> suin. On the other hand, it has been added by User:Jyril who normally knows what he does. As a minimum, the order should be changed, which I'm going to do right now. --Hekaheka 20:35, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
- The form pykin has probably been taken from database Joukahainen. I sent a comment to its administrator. Let's see what he has to say. --Hekaheka 21:00, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
- Joukahainen answered that pykiä is an exception and both forms are correct. --Hekaheka 21:10, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
- The form pykin has probably been taken from database Joukahainen. I sent a comment to its administrator. Let's see what he has to say. --Hekaheka 21:00, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
- The first table (with pykin) sounds wrong to me. Other, more familiar similar verbs definitely do not have that form, e.g. nykiä -> nyin, sukia -> suin. On the other hand, it has been added by User:Jyril who normally knows what he does. As a minimum, the order should be changed, which I'm going to do right now. --Hekaheka 20:35, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
- Oops, I meant to check for that or for alternate entries in a single table but I missed this one. (My current program isn't looking for alternates.) To me this sounds like a plausible candidate for dual conjugations but I can't give a definitive answer on that. Presumably it has two tables because someone who does know created it with two. Onyx 02:33, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
64-juoda juottaman -> juotaman
[edit]All(?) the verbs in this type have a 't' too many in passive instructive 3rd inf. Onyx 17:53, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
- There was an error in template, fixed. --Hekaheka 20:25, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
66-rohkaista
[edit](häväistä rangaista vavista) need weak stem in -ssut -sseet -kaa -ssee -tava -tiin -tu -takoon -taessa Onyx 17:56, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
- My authority on these three is Holman (1984) on rangaista. When I tried to double-check häväistä with the family Finn, she thought there was some potential ambiguity on the past participles. And since since vavista has an alternate form vapista, there might be some crossover there. Needs a native-or-higher touch, I see, since overrides of default formation might be needed. But one thing in particular that I've caught in a few of the templates (juoda and others, I think) is that -essa (passive inessive II) and -man (passive instructive III) should always agree on their passive stem (juota+essa and juota+man) but sometimes do not. Onyx 02:59, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
- These are tricky ones. My ear would accept conjugations of vavista and häväistä, häpäistä also without consonant gradation as in verbs (deprecated template usage) havista and (deprecated template usage) läpäistä but then again, I'm an engineer and not a linguist. --Hekaheka 20:16, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
- Joukahainen agrees with me on häväistä and häpäistä but not on vavista. --Hekaheka 21:09, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
- These are tricky ones. My ear would accept conjugations of vavista and häväistä, häpäistä also without consonant gradation as in verbs (deprecated template usage) havista and (deprecated template usage) läpäistä but then again, I'm an engineer and not a linguist. --Hekaheka 20:16, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
67-tulla
[edit]These have strong and weak stems reversed in many forms eg keinotelen->keinottelen and keinoteleva->keinotteleva: (keinotella, kutitella, laverrella, löntystellä, mutkitella, napsautella, napsutella, naputella, narahdella, naurahdella, nikotella, notkahdella, nukahdella, nuljahdella, ositella, osoitella, paistatella, paisutella, parannella, paukahdella, paukautella, paukutella, pihistellä) Onyx 18:00, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
- I think I've fixed all the above verbs, but I'm not quite sure about löntystellä and pihistellä. It seems they were listed as having consonant gradation but they really don't? —CodeCat 20:20, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
- Good, thanks. I checked one at random and it's fine now. pihistellä and löntystellä won't have consonant gradation because the 's' inhibits it there. When I first flagged these, they were keinotelen (instead of keinottelen) and pihisttelen (instead pihistelen). Now they are both right. Onyx 03:12, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
72-vanheta
[edit]These need weak stem in passive instructive 3rd inf, e.g. etettämän-edettämän: (edettämän, halvettaman, hapattaman, heikettämän, heikottaman, helpottaman, herkettämän, hoikettaman, huipettaman, huvettaman, jyrkettämän, jäykettämän, kalvettaman, karjettaman, kavettaman, kevettämän, kiinnettämän, kyettämän, leudottaman, liiettämän, liuettaman, loitottaman, lämmettämän, mädättämän, niukettaman, oiettaman, paettaman, pidettämän, rankettaman, rauettaman, rohjettaman, saettaman, sankettaman, seljettämän, soettaman, soukettaman, suipettaman, supettaman, synkettämän, taettaman, tarjettaman, tiukettaman, toettaman, tylpettämän, ulottaman, urjettaman, vaiettaman, valjettaman, vankettaman, yhdettämä) Onyx 18:05, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
- I've fixed the template, so that should have fixed all the entires along with it. —CodeCat 20:25, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
- Yep, looks good at random. Onyx 03:16, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
75-selvitä
[edit]These have 'a' rather than the verb's own vowel e.g. melattaman -> meluttaman in (aallottama, bingottama, diskottama, erittämä, haluttama, hamuttama, hellittämä, hirvittämä, hulmuttama, hälyttämä, hävittämä, jyryttämä, kohuttama, käryttämä, lassottama, lastuttama, levittämä, liesuttama, lietsuttama, loimuttama, loiskuttama, lyijyttämä, lymyttämä, lämmittämä, meluttama, muodottama, myrskyttämä, mölyttämä, möyryttämä, nimettämä, nujuttama, pehmittämä, peitottama, piiluttama, pyryttämä, pöllyttämä, pölyttämä, rymyttämä, ryöpyttämä, röyhyttämä, selittämä, selvittämä, siittämä, silittämä, solmittama, tyrskyttämä, virittämä) Onyx 18:08, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
- I fixed the template for these entries, I think it's right now? —CodeCat 20:29, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
- Yep, looks good at random. Onyx 03:17, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
ennen pitkää
[edit]That seems to have gotten broken around 2009. Originally "before long," it was changed at that time to "in the long run," apparently based on a misunderstanding of the English. "In the long run" means essentially the opposite of "before long" and "ennen pitkää." It means "not any time soon, but eventually," like "pitkän päälle." "Before long" and "ennen pitkää" mean "fairly soon though not right away" -- i.e. "before long," to which I have restored it. Onyx 17:22, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
Your account will be renamed
[edit]Hello,
The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.
Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Onyx. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Onyx~enwiktionary that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.
Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
Yours,
Keegan Peterzell
Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation
00:01, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
Renamed
[edit]This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: Special:GlobalRenameRequest. -- Keegan (WMF) (talk)
07:21, 21 April 2015 (UTC)