User talk:Mglovesfun/Archives/19

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Hullo again. Isn’t mal actually used as a suffix in this case? --Æ&Œ (talk) 23:27, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

On an unrelated note, this form acer#Anglo-Norman is uncountable, but its alternative achier#Anglo-Norman is not. I detect a contradiction. And also, your entry Affrican and Aufrican are very similar, but one should be listed as an alternative form, surely. Ciao. --Æ&Œ (talk) 00:33, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Curiously, on the Anglo-Norman On-Line Hub, you can find acers as a plural, but not achiers or achier as a nominative plural. So it's actually the other way around, at least in terms of attestation. Mglovesfun (talk) 04:15, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
Dunno if mal-/mau- is a suffix; I'd say yes I suppose. Mal is an adverb so it shouldn't qualify a noun; good point. Mglovesfun (talk) 20:10, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Asking for help[edit]

I have made yesterday a wrong move and need somebody who can undo it without destroying the history of the original entry. I thought that I was on a Turkish page, but I was wrong: alim is an English entry. I need also the âlim page for its Turkish translation. Can you undo this move? Thanks in advance. Sae1962 (talk) 10:48, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Done it seems; you can just create âlim as a separate entry. Mglovesfun (talk) 20:03, 11 September 2012 (UTC)


Hullo again (something tells me that I am starting to be disruptive).

I noticed that bacynet has cases where the ‘t’ is conserved instead of being replaced by the ‘z’. You are of course aware that often an Anglo‐Norman noun ending with ‘t’ will have that letter replaced with ‘z.’ So what I am trying to say is, are there more nouns conjugated like bacynet or is it just a (very) rare irregularity? Ciao. --Æ&Œ (talk) 08:39, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

No not disruptive. Here's a very useful tip from a fellow depressive, stop thinking people are pissed off with you when they're not; it'll save you a lot of anxiety. The answer is, it just happened to be the attested form on the Anglo-Norman On-Line Hub. Plurals are generally just -s but sometimes -z. The rules are very flexible. Mglovesfun (talk) 09:15, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
Heh, I should keep that advice in mind. I should have just waited for a clear warning. As for the other thing, I was enquiring because I made a declension template on wikcionario for Anglo‐Norman, and I want to make sure that I am not missing any other patterns. I imported many of your masculine Anglo‐Norman nouns into wikcionario based on your entries; I thought that that would give you a sense of pride. Cheers. --Æ&Œ (talk) 09:44, 12 September 2012 (UTC)


Hi! I noticed you changed {{context}} to {{qualifier}} in the "Alternative forms" list of this entry. Looking at both templates, this does seem appropriate. The problem is, I've been using {{context}} for this kind of information for a while now, including all form-of pages of "Alternative forms" terms (obsolete, dialectal, etc.). Is this bad? Should I ask someone with a bot (you, perhaps?) to change {{context}} to {{qualifier}} in all words in Category:lv:Dialectal and Category:Latvian obsolete forms, and also in all the form-of pages of their inflected forms? --Pereru (talk) 08:15, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Not really bad; the main difference is that {{context}} categorizes and {{qualifier}} doesn't. So {{context|archaic}} categorizes, {{qualifier|archaic}} does not. I'll see what I can do. Mglovesfun (talk) 19:47, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
I found and fixed 30 entries. Mglovesfun (talk) 17:33, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
Thanks! I had noticed that {{context}} classifies, so I made a point of using expressions that didn't exist as context tags, like "archaic form" instead of "archaic", and "obsolete form" instead of "obsolete". Hm... there are the form-of pages of obsolete, archaic or dialectal terms, like starku or patskaņu. In fact, all (or most) form-of pages that link to the words in Category:lv:Dialectal and Category:Latvian obsolete forms would need to have {{context}} changed into {{qualifier}}. Is there a quick, bot-based way of assessing the form-of pages that link to the pages in those categories and change these templates? It's the kind of somewhat tedious change that bots are better at doing than me...
Oh, and, by the way, thanks for the tip! --Pereru (talk) 19:03, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
It can be done just not by me. In general, what's needed is a list of the uses of {{context}} in the main namespace other than in a definition. Category:Latvian obsolete forms only has 28 entries so checking them by hand shouldn't take particularly long (less than a minute per entry). Mglovesfun (talk) 19:21, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
(Sigh) OK. I'll see if I can get to that today. I'll be working on some adjectives and updating the form-of pages of those words at the same time. That should make it less tedious: one cookie plus one template change. --Pereru (talk) 19:27, 20 September 2012 (UTC)


I see you helpfully edited the article I started on Trutz. Can you also get the bit in curly brackets to show the Dative as Trutze? Should Trutze and Trutzes have separate entries referencing back to the nominitive? --Doric Loon (talk) 09:27, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Looks like you've already done this. Thank you. Mglovesfun (talk) 19:15, 19 September 2012 (UTC)


Is this for real, or just a nonsense word? See fr:s:Les Pieds dans le plat. SemperBlotto (talk) 15:44, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

The latter I think, Google Books gets one hit, and it's in English. Seems to be a fabric in the English hit. Mglovesfun (talk) 17:35, 20 September 2012 (UTC)


Salut. Peux tu confirmer si ces citations françaises soient valides ? Ce devrait être un pluriel alternatif de ghetto. Ciao. --Æ&Œ (talk) 08:56, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Looks good. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:45, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
Also, I think "Peux-tu confirmer que les citations françaises sont valables ?" is a better wording. I'm not 100% on the sont/soient bit mind you. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:51, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
"sont". "soient" would sound strange here, imo. --Fsojic (talk) 22:46, 12 December 2012 (UTC)


I think that the suggestion for an addition I make (see: Template talk:rfinfl) would make sense. Would you be able to help please? — Saltmarshαπάντηση 14:23, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply, I've been engaging in my 'real life' a lot recently. Have replied at Template talk:rfinfl and would like to keep the discussion there so everyone can view it. Mglovesfun (talk) 09:49, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
No problem, I've done it - as I should have done anyway - it 'seems' to work OK! — Saltmarshαπάντηση 06:18, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

distrète distrètement[edit]

Any ideas? Some seem to be alternative/misspellings of distrait but many seem to have some sort of sexual element. SemperBlotto (talk) 10:56, 25 September 2012 (UTC) p.s. also distrétion

Or a typo for discrète? Could you link me to wherever you found this? Mglovesfun (talk) 10:59, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
=> fr:s:L’Épave du Cynthia/Texte entier
Definitely discrète, discrètement, discrétion. Probably a scanno, it's a scan of [1]. If you have the patience to look up the original scans by searching the page numbers, great, but I wouldn't even bother. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:13, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
OK. I'll ignore anything dodgy from this source. SemperBlotto (talk) 11:16, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
Wikisource scans are in general a bit dodgy. Concerning Michel de Montaigne's Essais I asked what the transcription norms were, and got told 'there are none'. When possible, try looking on the talk page for a source text, gallica for example has loads of (what I assume to be) scans of printed material, really good stuff. Mglovesfun (talk) 22:16, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Ghetto edit and block[edit]

Thank you for the unblock however, disagreeing with an edit does not warrant a block in the first place, that's what the undo button is for. Semperblotto was abusing his admin privileges. You may want to read the censor link you sent me yourself, it says "Wiktionary is not censored for the ‘protection of minors’ " , not minorities. If you feel the information i removed is "real" then cite it and show me where you find something that says everyone living in a minority community is poor and they should all be referred to as ghettos, if you can't then put my edit back. People of all incomes can live in Chinatown and gay villages. I have the right to edit just as much as anyone else does and just because an admin disagrees with my edit doesn't give them the right to block me, i'm not the one that wrote racist comments, all i did was take them out. If this information is not removed and i don't receive an apology for attempting to clean up offensive material (that is offensive to minors and adults) and for being blocked for it. I want an apology from Semperblotto for the block and abusing privileges (which he has done before, blocking someone else for not agreeing with an edit on february 7, 2012) and one from you for "warning" me not to do "this sort of thing(remove racist comments)" otherwise i will contact every administrator to complain about both of you. The edit i made, the revert, and the block are all easily locateable on your site so i will also advertise for people to boycott wiktionary on facebook, twitter, and anywhere else i can think of on the net, contact all minority organizations i can think of and the media to get their support in this matter and advertising the boycott and advertising that wiktionary is racist and against all minorites. If i get blocked again that's what a million free proxies are for so i'm reverting it back to my edit, you may want to warn your colleague to leave it alone or i will do everything i mentioned above. I'm a very vengeful person so if i get treated like this again and don't get an apology I will take the time and energy to do everything i mentioned until i find a minority group that will get it reported to the media. Thank you.

It's not my job personally to cite, this, you can use {{rfv-sense}} if you like. Also, you're so so wrong on this issue. The rollback was as standard for vandalism or good faith bad edit, the block is as standard, though some administrators might not block on this issue, some would. Wiktionary is not 'racist', we report terms as they are used, see Category:English ethnic slurs for example, we're not 'promoting' the terms but 'documenting' them. The definition is "A district where members of an ethnic, religious or cultural minority are congregated, usually voluntarily." It's not a pejorative definition. Speaking personally, I have more members of my family who are black than white though I myself am white, so don't give me this bullshit about racism. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:08, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

It is the responsibility of the biggot that is calling chinatown and the castro district ghettos to cite that they actually are, this is not "valid" or "real" information as you like to put it. A citation is not required to remove incorrect or inaccurate information. If you want it there you cite it. I'm sure your higher ups will appreciate an admin quoting "wiktionary is racist". The media would love that. I'll save a copy of the page in case it gets deleted. I understand defining racist and other derogatory words but there are non-racist ways of doing so and providing or refusing to remove information worded offensively and is not needed to define the word is not the way to do it.

"A citation is not required to remove incorrect or inaccurate information". But you have no evidence to show it is incorrect or inaccurate. Also, with all due respect, you have no idea what you're doing as you don't edit here. Also my "higher ups", erm what? We don't really have a hierarchy here. Again, I wouldn't expect you to know that as you are not a Wiktionary editor. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:34, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
regarding "contact all minority organizations" they're gonna tell you to piss off because you're not fighting offensive information, you're fighting correct, appropriately worded unoffensive information. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:35, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
Also, it seems you don't know what racism is. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:37, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
Your edit summary of "Removed wording that was offensive to minority groups" is very inappropriate. Are you qualified to talk for all minority groups? Well no, I'm a member of a minority group and I don't find it offensive, ergo your logic is invalid. It would be really, really nice to be able to avoid indefinitely blocking you as a vandalism-only account, does that sound ok to you too? Mglovesfun (talk) 11:43, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Higher ups as in other admins that actually care about the sites public image and that can suspend or revoke your admin privileges. This is a PUBLIC page, it doesn't matter how often i edit here, that's why there's an edit button and changes show immediately. You are making yourself sound like a racist biggot that is stuck up, snobby, and talks down to others thinking your better than them just because your an admin. Abusing your power and continuosly blocking me just proves that to people more. Blocking my talk page so that i can't appeal is not going to stop me from complaining about your actions to other admins that can remove your "power". Abusing power and talking down to people because you think your better than them cause you have "special power" here is usually what people do when they are trying to make up for other insecurities they have everywhere else where they have no power and are helpless. I'm a minority and i find it offensive. It doesn't need to be there to define the word. I don't need a citation to remove inaccurate info, citations are needed to post inaccurate info. If i post incorrect stuff and someone removes it are you going to ask them for a citation? No, you can't cite opinions and that's what i'm removing, opinions. I'm not removing definitions or facts, i'm removing inaccurate opinions that I and others find offensive. Just because you don't find it offensive doesn't mean others won't. The stuff i removed were opinions, you can't cite opinions. Dictionaries are for facts, not opinions. The only reason you keep blocking me is because you know your not smart enough to win an argument. Blocking is the same thing as losing because you can't backup what you say so your losing and walking away.

You can never win an argument with someone who simply ignores everything you say, which is what you're doing to me. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:30, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
Also please don't talk about minorities; YOU find it offensive, no minorities. If minorities think that, let them say is for themselves. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:32, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

I am a minority and i am saying it. I'm gay and it's offensive. I'm not ignoring you, i'm the one that keeps defending my argument. You are not listening to reason and you are the one ignoring everything by blocking me because you know your wrong and you can't back up what you say. Opinions don't belong in a dictionary, only facts and you know it. Read the rules.

I'm also a minority but I think you (the anonymous editor, not Mglovesfun) need to understand that Wiktionary is not censored. You've removed information without any kind of discussion, nor are you willing to engage in discussion and build consensus on the problem. Instead, you just go with my way or the highway. So if anyone needs to follow established practice it's you and not Mglovesfun. As Mglovesfun pointed out to you already, the proper procedure if an uncited definition is disputed is to submit it for verification by adding {{rfv-sense}} at the beginning of the definition. If the sense can be verified through citations, then it will stay, otherwise it goes, but unless you follow standard procedure, any attempt to remove information will be considered vandalism and be removed. —CodeCat 13:37, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
Anonymous, you have the right to an opinion, the problem is that you're trying to force it on everyone else. Please do not force your opinions on to others. Mglovesfun (talk) 15:40, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with homosexuals. If anything, they balance the world and give the world character. The reality is you cannot help who you love and in the end, love is acceptable as long as it is consensual and reciprocated, as a result. To label homosexuality as evil is ignorant and to classify gays as ghetto, well now you are just lying. I don't know about you, but I don't have any gay friends who are ghetto. In fact, most that I know are quite the opposite. Now I understand why you resent homosexuals, they represent what your mother, your father, your sister, your brother, and any other close to has dubbed as "different". Instead of looking at them fully, as individuals, you see them as "wrong". Well guess what suga, you are wrong, which is why I believe you are in desperate need of an emotional education and in the end, the ethics you lack towards humans who have never done anything horrible to you or to anyone in general (and there are statistics that prove this to be truth) is quite traumatizing. With virtually no effort whatsoever, you have managed to think so negatively about gays and lesbians. After all, the trials and tribulations of what it must be to eke out an existence in the corpolent, sloppy guise of spider deported pig is most certainly beyond the range of my experience. Committing yourself to illiteracy and maintaining an old fashion hate cinco. You should be proud. I will tell you what though, the ignorance you display does not define gays, it defines you and it's for that reason that I have to plead the 5th and maintain my silence regarding your personal flaws, foibles, and the whole cornucopia of your own shortcomings that currently define you. But let the truth be known, creepy grenadulous, how I currently feel about you: nothing. Have a great day. You deserve it, stud. AngelaCoon (talk)

Why do you think Mglovesfun has anything against homosexuals? We have many gay editors here on Wiktionary. —CodeCat 00:16, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Obviously the anonymous user is not the only one offended. I find it offensive and I hope he or she is successful in having both of your admin privileges revoked because you are both BULLYING this user, gays, and Chinese Americans. If u were smart enough to read or watch the news and understand it u would know the country and the world has taken a stand on bullying and most everyone does not approve of this behavior, those that do are whackos with problems. I personally will contact Perez Hilton, I know he will do a story and get a boycott started and he has a ton of national media contacts he can get to report this story as well. Your lives must be sad of all u have to do all day is sit in your parents basements and troll a dictionary. I hope it made you feel better about yourselves using your power to BULLY these users since you have no power in the rest of your lives especially with your parents bossing you around all day. Seems like u have to make urselves feel better by being mean to people and controlling a dictionary because you don't even have control in your own homes. And saying you have minority family is no excuse, that doesn't mean u accept them, and you are not the one that's the minority yourself so you don't know what it feels like. These people are individuals and have souls and feelings and your arguing about removing offensive wording that's not needed means you don't care about them or the family members u speak of. Calling racism bullshit proves u have no feelings for others that u deem as not normal. -David A.

Odd that you would use the term "bullying". Taking a bulldozer to a lot of people's hard work going back at least half a decade without asking- then calling the people who stopped it racist and homophobic whackos, and threatening all kinds of dire consequences- that's bullying. You've seriously misinterpreted the material that was trashed, misinterpreted the intentions of everyone involved, and are in general causing a whole lot of sound and fury over basically nothing. You know nothing about Wiktionary, its people, or its practices, and yet you're trying to serve as judge, jury and executioner against volunteers who are just trying to keep misguided people from destroying things. Please stop! Chuck Entz (talk) 07:19, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
I probably shouldn't even answer as the accusation is that ridiculous, but I have quite a lot of gay friends. In particular, one of my best friends who I saw only yesterday is gay. The definition of ghetto doesn't even mention homosexuality, so why this should come up on this talk page I couldn't even tell you. Mglovesfun (talk) 09:45, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
They're referring to the second noun sense, which has example sentences referring to gay and Chinese "ghettos". Of course, there's a certain element of ironic humor in that sense which the anon totally missed. I've heard it used that way, myself: the idea is that there are so many of a given type of person there that it's like they were segregated there. The humor plays on the idea of groups one doesn't associate with economic hardship being "forced" to live together.
I'm skeptical, though, of applying that to Chinatown, because there used to be real forced segregation that was behind the existence of at least the older Chinatowns. The San Francisco Chinatown, for instance, dated back to the days when the importation of huge numbers of cheap Asian laborers led to economically-based resentment and really virulent xenophobia- the internment of Japanese US citizens during WWII was just the latest of a string of nasty laws and government actions against Asians, and Asians were treated even worse than blacks in some ways. At least to begin with, Chinatowns were ghettos in the literal, non-humorous sense.
As for the Castro district, it was one of the first places that gays could feel like they fit in at a time when society at large considered them as sick and degenerate, so there was a tendency for them to go a bit overboard in adopting a neighborhood identity. Some straight San Franciscans used to call the area "Clonetown", because it seemed like everyone there wore exactly the same clothes and talked and acted exactly the same. I can definitely see the humor in calling such a self-imposed segregation a "ghetto"
I think the whole entry could use some cleanup. For instance, a good number of the quotes for the third adjective sense belong to the second one, and the fourth sense is questionable.
The anon and allies (or sockpuppets?) are so clueless, I suspect we're dealing with teens or younger. Chuck Entz (talk) 13:52, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
I strongly suspect it's all one person, brand new accounts don't normally find their way to user talk pages and post "I agree with everything" by pure coincidence. Mglovesfun (talk) 17:43, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
I'm stunned by the tone of these users, who in fact threatened you Mglovesfun (and Semperblotto) with consequences if you didn't comply with their demands. Sure, history isn't always fair and peachy but auto-censoring Wiktionary is surely not an option. I see no problem with "ghetto" at this moment - as mentioned before, it is in fact used ironically as well. I also found it peculiar that "allies" suddenly appeared and decided to support the first user's request, thus leading me to believe that it is the same person and most definitely a troll.--Robbie SWE (talk) 18:00, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Mglovesfun, you would love if we were the same person. In fact, your constant insinuation that we are the same person is laughable at best. As if you didn't think that your actions had consequences and posting such false truncation to up your stance and make you seem to be superior would end with you being able to do that. By default, whether you are black or white, the fact you have resorted to labeling individuals as "ghetto" proves that you are indeed a racist with NPD, and in short, I believe this website as of now is as credible as Urban Dictionary, if not worse because of the passive aggressive ignorance. I feel really bad for you because at the end of the day, no matter how much you look in the mirror and point "you the man" you aren't really happy.

'the fact you have resorted to labeling individuals as "ghetto"' This never happened, you're making it up. Mglovesfun (talk) 22:02, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
Also "constant insinuation", by constant you seem to mean "once" and by insinuation you seem to mean "stating it plainly". Mglovesfun (talk) 22:05, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
Enough about me; who are you? Who are you to state so confidently that you can speak for every minority group in the world? Mglovesfun (talk) 22:09, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi, what about VV.AA.?[edit]

It's different from VA as well as various artists is different from various authors. Source. --Mauro Lanari (talk) 18:47, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Well, what about it? Mglovesfun (talk) 19:34, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
Thanks a lot. --Mauro Lanari (talk) 20:17, 29 September 2012 (UTC)


I created it if you want to have a look Purplebackpack89 (Notes Taken) (Locker) 21:30, 2 October 2012 (UTC)


FYI, "cf" means "compare", not "confer". kwami (talk) 01:53, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

I disagree. In any case, it doesn't matter, because compare is generally preferable for lexicographical use. --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 01:57, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
It's not a matter of opinion. "Confer" and "compare" mean two different things, and while the Latin word 'cf' is the abbreviation of may be confer, the English it is used for is "compare", as demonstrated by any dictionary and by the fact that "confer" makes absolutely no sense in the contexts 'cf' is used. kwami (talk) 02:03, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
For what it's worth, take a look at the very first definition of confer. (It's marked obsolete, but it sounds natural to me, and I'm a native speaker of AmEng.) --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 02:08, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, they have the same source, but I think the 'obsolete' is reason enough to avoid it. I doubt it sounds as natural to many people as it does to you! kwami (talk) 02:49, 4 October 2012 (UTC)


Salut. N’est‐ce pas aussi signifier chessboard ? Ciao. --Æ&Œ (talk) 18:03, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

In a word, yes. Mglovesfun (talk) 18:18, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

oblique ou ablatif[edit]

Salut. Au contexte des langues romanes antiques, est‐ce le mot oblique un synonyme du mot ablatif ? Ciao. --Æ&Œ (talk) 06:17, 5 October 2012 (UTC)


I didn't even have to add the link in Smith.--Kitchen Knife (talk) 21:57, 5 October 2012 (UTC)


Speednat (talkcontribs) has been changing a lot of entries from {{a|US}} to {{a|GA}}. I've directed them to use {{a|GenAm}} instead, but as for the entries which have already been changed, do you think we should create Template:accent:GA as a redirect to Template:accent:GenAm and/or could you have your template-redirect-avoidance-bot update all instances of {{a|GA}} to {{a|GenAm}}? - -sche (discuss) 02:27, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Redirect is ok unless 'GA' can commonly refer to something else. Am thinking that the US State of Georgia is also known as GA, right? Mglovesfun (talk) 12:05, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

sh nesting[edit]


Although Serbo-Croatian speakers call the Roman alphabet latinica, it conflicts with the Latin translations (language) - new translation go to Latin (language), even if the preview doesn't show - also depends whether the Latin translation exists or not. The assisted translations also allow Serbo-Croatian/Roman, not ../Latin nesting. There were a few discussions about this issue and Aramaic/Hebrew. In English Latin/Roman are synonyms in this sense, and it's safer to use Roman. Could you use Roman instead of Latin, please, unless you have other reasons. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 00:25, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, I thought there was no consensus, I started changing from Roman to Latin when {{sh-noun}} started displaying 'Latin spelling' instead of 'Roman spelling'. I believe the move from Latin to Roman was originally to stop Conrad.Bot picking up 'Latin' translations and adding them to Index:Latin. Is that a good enough reason to use Roman instead of Latin? Mglovesfun (talk) 11:03, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
In my observation it was also the accepted practice to use Roman. Yes, adding to the wrong index and moving sh translations to la when sorting seem to be a good reason. As I mentioned, the assisted translation also allows ../Roman only. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 11:30, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
Yes, using 'Latin' also messes up the translation adder when I'm trying to add real Latin words. We already had a discussion about this somewhere that came to the consensus that 'Roman' would be better. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 19:39, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
Message received. Mglovesfun (talk) 23:26, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
I noticed you (your MglovesfunBot) have been converting all separate sh translations into sh (bot: Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian →‎ Serbo-Croatian in translation sections) even if an sh translation already exists. KassadBot then sees the duplicite translations and adds them to Category:Entries with translation table format problems. The translations then need to be merged somehow. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 04:07, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
Yes see User:Mglovesfun, User talk:MglovesfunBot. This was an expected consequence; I was hoping KassadBot would alphabetize everything so all the Serbo-Croatian translations would end up together, that would make it much easier to eliminate the duplicate ones. Mglovesfun (talk) 08:27, 9 October 2012 (UTC)


Hi! Following through with WT:RFM#Template:only-in_and_Template:only_in, I've been replacing {{only in}} with {{only-in}} and updating the link syntax as I go. (I actually prefer the name "only in", but I figure both names will be kept, one redirecting to the other, so it doesn't matter which the entries use right now, and updating the syntax and name at the same time obviates having to temporarily make {{only in}} take {{only-in}}'s easier syntax in addition to its current tortured syntax.) I think I've replaced most of the uncommon uses. Could you have your bot replace all instances of {{only in|{{in appendix|SI units}}}} with {{only-in|[[Appendix:SI units]]}}? I think that'll clear up 95% of main-namespace transclusions of {{only in}}, leaving only Pokemon and a few other oddities to be dealt with before we can merge the templates. - -sche (discuss) 20:03, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes I can; KassadBot will need to be adapted to accept both template names. BTW havr you considered -scheBot? That's really all MglovesfunBot is; apart from not appearing in the recent changes, you can automatically save edits rather than pressing save every two seconds. But that can go wrong; see User:MglovesfunBot/errata. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:18, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
Am doing this now. Am actually full of fever, only awake for about 5 hours yesterday, so I'm on a bit of a 'go-slow'. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:01, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
Thank you! Robin and I cleaned up the few stragglers and the merge is now complete. I suppose the benefit of a bot in your case is that you could set it to run and then go back to sleep, lol... I hope you get to feeling better.
I guess I should create a -schebot; Ruakh also suggested it. I imagine I could write the regex for really simple replacement jobs like this, I'm just not clear on how to write the 'framework' that makes the bot log in and start looking at entries. I'm kind of tech-resistant in the way that duck-feathers are water-resistant, lol. - -sche (discuss) 21:45, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
That's a good point; I do that manually, log in and also have to find a way to find all the entries that need 'fixing', such as categories, what links here, what transcluded, wiki search, etc., etc. Mglovesfun (talk) 21:47, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

WT:RFDO#Category:Transliteration of English surnames[edit]

Please could you specify on the RFDO page whether you oppose the request, or only Yair rand's comment that any transliteration categories aren't needed. I'd also oppose that comment, but the RFDO is only about cleaning up bothersome duplicate categories. Nothing will get done if there are not enough votes. --Makaokalani (talk) 14:31, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Deleted page en el[edit]

The expression en el is a paraphrase, so it can have its own page like many other parphrase f.e. "look after" or in Neapolitan "nu sacco" has been mantained so why this paraphrase should be deleted. Even you proposed the creation of a paraphrase page "beaucoup de" in the discussion of 'a lot'

I don't know what you mean by 'paraphrase', that's not the English word for whatever you're talking about. Perhaps you could tell us in Italian (not enough Neapolitan speakers here to merit saying it in Neapolitan). Also, if nu sacco it's because you created it and none of us know enough Neapolitan to nominate it for deletion. Anyway, en el is not anything in Spanish other than a preposition followed by an article, unlike both look after (verb followed by preposition) and beaucoup de (adverb followed by preposition). I think the problem may be you don't know enough about these language to be writing about them, and you don't know enough English to be writing anything here in the main namespace. Mglovesfun (talk) 21:13, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
a Paraprhase is when someone uses more than a single written out word to express something. EXemples are many english verbs like look out, which is different from look, or give up, which is very different from give. Please when you white to me don't use a sense of superiority, feigning not to understand what I write you are english and we all know how english people feel superior to others, please a little humility, humility is the queen of virtues you should know: thank you for replying humbly. now please let me write this page -en el-
Oh come on, your English is pretty poor, really can't blame me if I don't understand everything you say. Anyway, there's such a thing as a phrasal verb which of course only applies to verbs. We also have Category:English prepositional phrases for prepositional phrases that meet WT:CFI, NOT just a preposition followed by any word one cares to think of. En el is clearly off-topic, not a prepositional phrase but the preposition en followed by the article el. It does not express a single idea no more than green hat expresses the single idea that a given hat is green. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:08, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
Specific example, "en el banco" is en + el banco, not en el + banco. It's el banco which is a single unit. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:20, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
There is in this dictionary the word Paraphrase under the diciture English that means that paraphrase is an english word so not only I don't know English language, by instance I'm not native of that language but even you, who are SUPPOSED to be a native english speaker, are you? Or what are you really you look like a spammer or a bot to me repeating all the same stuff anyway I can't go on dscussing with someone who is infactual and repetitive like you If you want we meet personally in Rome near my home not far from england yorhome and clarify. BYE
In English, the word paraphrase means a restatement of text and has nothing to do with grammar or parts of speech. Maybe you are looking for the word phrase? --WikiTiki89 12:42, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
That's what I meant sometimes it can be entirely written down with it'own entry: without splitting it into various entries. That all for me good bye
I still can't insert neapolitan traslations to english entry meanings and just for a discussion nobody could claim the right to win? Hey Anybody up there wake up I need your intercession

ok I'll just write in artisanal wayAufels (talk) 01:04, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

User talk:MglovesfunBot#creamy[edit]

FYI. —RuakhTALK 22:04, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Your Bot's Talk page[edit]

Sorry, didn't realize that was your bot's talk page. I'm taking it off my watchlist now so I don't make that mistake again. --WikiTiki89 11:04, 18 October 2012 (UTC)


You changed zh to cmn even in places where you don't know if that's correct, e.g. n/a?diff=18568222. You should change it back; but I don't even really know what to suggest. It seems too difficult now to find and undo that mistake. I can only ask that, in future, you take more care. This is not the first time that you've made a mass-edit without regard for cases where it might be wrong; for a different sort of example, see Template:form_of?diff=13039729&oldid=13022051. —RuakhTALK 23:46, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

I can see why you'd call it a mistake, but I did know this would happen. The bot isn't making a mistake so much as failing to clean up the mistake of another user, by using zh instead of a language code for a Chinese language. It is "fixable" (fixable seems wrong, maybe modifiable it a better word) by changing
* Chinese: {{t|cmn|


* Chinese
*: {{ttbc|cmn}}: {{t|cmn|
That to me seems acceptable. Still it is the done practice to assume that zh refers to cmn (remember zh once referred to Chinese, then was changed to Mandarin, to {{t|zh|foo}} linked to the Mandarin section. In conclusion, I don't think this is a broken bot edit, but rather an edit where the bot failed to fix one of the problems that was caused by a human user using zh in the first place. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:55, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
"I can only ask that, in future, you take more care." Agreed. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:58, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
According to Wiktionary:Bots, bot-owners agree to "ask around for consensus, perhaps at the Beer parlour, or [to] make sure that the task is so innocuous that no one could possibly object". You ran this bot after participating in a discussion at Wiktionary:Grease pit/2012/October#Orphaning Template:zh that made clear that people could object to this edit. Granted, when you run a bot, it's understood that there's a risk that it will exacerbate existing wikitext problems that you haven't thought of — there's a limit to what a programmer can accomplish — but in this case your mistake is one that had already been pointed out in that discussion, so your failure to give-a-damn is a clear example of a bot acting without consensus. —RuakhTALK 12:02, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
Who said they could object to this edit? All I can remember is someone asking if {{zh-forms}} would get deleted as well. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:05, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
See my comment there, where I gave "Any occurrence of {{t|zh|...}} or {{t+|zh|...}} or {{t-|zh|...}} on a line that starts with * Mandarin: or *: Mandarin: or whatnot" as an example of a conversion that was clearly bottable. If that doesn't make it obvious that the conversion of {{t-|zh|...}} to {{t-|cmn|...}} depends on context, then I really don't know what would. —RuakhTALK 12:19, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
I think you're more hypothetically right than actually right, as it is assumed that {{zh}} refers to 'standard' Chinese aka Mandarin. Also, even if you're right (and I think you're right in a hypothetical, unpractical way) what you say doesn't change anything, per se. Mglovesfun (talk) 13:07, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

French -is participle verbs[edit]


which other verbs with a participle ending in "s" do you know except mettre etc. and prendre etc. and quérir? You may add souloir, it's a defective archaic verb.

Greetings HeliosX (talk) 18:52, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

I assume you don't mean such as remettre and reprendre? Acquérir I suppose. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:53, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
Took me forever to think of one but here you go: asseoir. --WikiTiki89 10:56, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
So we've got verbs ending in -seoir (Latin sedeō) in -quérir (Latin quaerō) in -mettre (Latin mittō) and -prendre (Latin prehendō). I'll post any more I can think of. In Wiktionary terms, this is why {{fr-past participle}} has a mp= parameter. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:40, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
Regarding souloir, that's the one requested in Old French as soloir where it seems never to be used in the infinitive, only in the third-person. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:41, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
Is there any case where the mp is not either -s or unchanged? --WikiTiki89 11:54, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
I think not. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:55, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
Do we have some sort of substring function that can extract the last letter then (and then check if it is equal to "s")? --WikiTiki89 11:58, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
No, not really. The only really sensible substring operation that you can perform on a string is, you can get the first n characters, where n is known in advance. (Even that's via a dirty hack, but it's a dirty hack that's reliable and efficient.) Any other operation has to be performed in terms of that; for example, to get the length of a string, you try different values of n until you find the least n such that the string is equal to the first n characters of itself, and in theory, to get the last character of a string, you first find the length, and then you try different values of the last character until you find a character c such that the string is equal to the first n−1 characters of itself, plus c. For what you describe, you wouldn't actually want to extract the last character and compare it to 's'; rather, you'd want to just compare the string to its first n−1 characters plus 's'. But regardless . . . Wikipedians go nuts over this stuff, but at en.wikt we try to pretend we're sane, so we only allow this sort of operation in subst:-only templates. (Once we get Scribunto, of course, all that will change.) —RuakhTALK 12:35, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
Yeah that's what I thought. Why don't we have something like this though? --WikiTiki89 12:49, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
The developers object, both on philosophical grounds — they don't think this sort of substring manipulation has any place in wikitext — and on practical grounds — now that they know that a minor edge-case in a string-padding function can generate a whole family of very expensive string-manipulation templates on en.WP, they're afraid of what monstrosities Wikipedians might come up with if given slightly-more-powerful tools. (Which, in a way, is too bad. A wikitext-only Turing-machine, while detrimental to the functioning of WMF servers, would nonetheless be very interesting from a computer-science perspective.) Anyway, this garbage is what prompted the devs to start working on Scribunto, so some good has come of it. —RuakhTALK 13:54, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
I recognise some of these words. Ƿidsiþ 15:55, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
I wonder if wikitext is Turing-complete without any parser functions. I kind of wanna install wikimedia on my laptop to try it out. Do you know what the minimum RAM and hard drive requirements are? --WikiTiki89 14:03, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
Without any parser-functions, you can't even do the get-first-n-characters thing, since that requires either padleft: or padright: (see mw:Help:Magic words#Formatting). But if you mean, with the built-in parser-functions, but without any extensions, then — no, it wouldn't be Turing-complete, because extensionless wikitext processing always halts — it offers neither loops nor recursion — whereas for a true Turing machine there will always exist some inputs for which you don't know whether the machine will ever halt. (See w:Halting problem.) —RuakhTALK 15:48, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
Right, I forgot there's a looping restriction. --WikiTiki89 16:00, 24 October 2012 (UTC)


Hi there. herring is in Category:Candidates for speedy deletion - possibly after the edit by your bot. It seems to have the {{delete}} template transcluded, but I can't see it. Any ideas? SemperBlotto (talk) 16:10, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

It used {{d}} as a gender instead of {{f}}, looks like a human typo. Presumably {{t-}} has been changed which triggered it to transclude {{d}} as a gender template. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:16, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
See User talk:Liliana-60#template:t and friends. --WikiTiki89 16:42, 24 October 2012 (UTC)


Please DO NOT delete this a second time. This is a perfectly legitimate word in Russian which needs to be here instead of a dictionary defition on wikipedia. Regards 22:55, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Among other reasons, desant is clearly NOT a Russian word, as Russian does not use the Latin script. Mglovesfun (talk) 22:56, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
I *WELL* understand that I am writing about the transliteration!! Honestly you are making me angry here. I'm an administrator on Wikipedia *trying* to do the right thing and move a dictionary definition to Wiktionary, and all you are doing is making me repeat my efforts!! Let's do it this way: how should I create this entry? 23:04, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
How much Russian do you know? I could if I really wanted to copy some stuff over from ru:десант to десант (desant), but guessing in the main namespace is bad form; I'd honestly stick to WT:RE:ru unless you've got decent knowledge of Russian. Mglovesfun (talk) 23:06, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
The main reason for deletion is not script as that's not terrible difficult to correct even for me. The main reason is the format 100% wrong. So we have a Russian word in the Latin script with 100% wrong format. Get it? Try coping over a Wiktionary entry like parlions verbatim to Wikipedia and see how long it lasts without getting speedily deleted. Mglovesfun (talk) 23:09, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
Additionally, the original is десант, as you will see at The text I'm looking to start from is "The word desánt, as used in the Vozdushno-Desantnye Vojska, is a borrowing of the French descente (‘debarkation’ or ‘landing’). It is also used by the Russian Ground Forces for the desantno-shturmoviye batal′ony (Template:lang-ru), the airmobile assault battalions, and by the Russian Naval Infantry in voyenno-morskoy desant (Template:lang-ru), an amphibious landing. The airborne, air-assault, and amphibious troops of all services are referred to as desantniki, which literally means ‘those who land’. The term desant is defined by Radzievskii as: Troops intended for landing, or which have already landed on enemy-occupied territory for the purpose of conducting combat operations. According to the transportation method used, a landing force may be amphibious, airborne, or combined; and according to its scale and purpose, such a force may be strategic, operational, or tactical.
So help me with it or edit it instead of deleting it wholesale!! Please !! Again, how should I go about this? Take three minutes to help me instead of speedy-deleting again. As you will probably know, the new word box doesn't provide any agreed structure and I literally copied the 'bed' example from the guide page!! 23:14, 26 October 2012 (UTC)


Notes‐tu que une catégorie est incorrecte ? --Æ&Œ (talk) 03:02, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but why tell me about it? Mglovesfun (talk) 18:17, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
Because I dun know how to fix it. --Æ&Œ (talk) 21:31, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
Ok, but honestly any more mistakes like this, just fix 'em. Don't be afraid of my reaction, I'm not. Mglovesfun (talk) 21:37, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
What actually happened was a typo {{head|fr|pronoun}} instead of {{head|fro|pronoun}}, then MglovesfunBot converted all instances of {{head|fr|pronoun}} to {{fr-pron}}. Mglovesfun (talk) 21:39, 3 November 2012 (UTC)


Why is the change needed? DCDuring TALK 17:15, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

I assume you mean {{isValidPageName}}? Because Silurus contained a wikilink in the third parameter, causing it to display [[the sheatfish]] which clearly isn't intended. The word "the" works well here in English, and the only way to get it in is to make it always mandatory, or to allow flexibility. I went for the second one. Mglovesfun (talk) 17:21, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
The problem was that Silurus was missing its third parameter - the "the" should have been in the fourth. Fixed. SemperBlotto (talk) 17:23, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
For the few who use this, it is better that it fails conspicuously. I suggest reverting. DCDuring TALK 17:26, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
It is not an error and therefore should not fail at all. --WikiTiki89 18:09, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
It depends on what you consider an error. We don't have entries for arbitrary text that can be the fourth argument. If a bare term is entered that generates a link, blue or red. (Redlinks are quite useful for suggesting missing entries without requiring runs on XML dumps.) Anything else does not, unless there are manually added wikilinks.
If anything it needs to fail more conspicuously. (I didn't notice when I made the mistake.) But let's not go down the performance-sapping route of Daniel., trying to do error-trapping within templates when it isn't worth it. We still haven't recovered from the excesses in that direction. Maybe when the great Lua comes we will attain error-trapping nirvana. DCDuring TALK 18:25, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
Nevermind, I misunderstood what was going on. --WikiTiki89 18:35, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
Feel free to undo then, but only the second edit, first edit is IMO still legit. Mglovesfun (talk) 19:18, 9 November 2012 (UTC)


Salut. Il semblerait que plusieurs entrées avec une esperluette en Wiktionnaire n’y sont pas permises. Est‐ce que aussi le vrai pour Wiktionary ? Pouvons créer quelque chose comme & ainsi de suite ici ? Ciao. --Æ&Œ (talk) 00:48, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Does my breath smell bad or something? --Æ&Œ (talk) 23:53, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Wasn't sure what type of reply you're wanting. You're saying we seem to have many entries with & in and those aren't allowed on the French Wiktionary. Is it allowed here? Probably best not to treat & as a separate word to 'and'. Not sure how many entry titles even contain the word 'and' (the English word and specifically). Mglovesfun (talk) 12:45, 11 November 2012 (UTC)


I think you might be getting mixed up with the adjectival form of pound. Pounds is the normal plural. "That will be two pounds, please. Thankyou." As opposed to "Can you change a twenty-pound note? Thanks" imho. Cheers. -- ALGRIF talk 12:11, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

No, I mean, really really no. How long have you spent in the UK? Mglovesfun (talk) 12:27, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
Born, educated and lived there for 40 years, fyi.

Whilst we know that many people say "That's two pound, please." or "It's ten foot long if it's an inch" and so on, that doesn't mean that these are the standard plural forms like "sheep" as you maintain. It's just colloquial English. Seriously, how long have you lived there, yourself? Do you have to do a search to check this out? If you did, you would find millions of examples such as ; "The US are doing cataract operations for two thousand pounds a go." and "The squid and fish curry costs less than two pounds." and "Two million pounds, Michu cost." and etc. And you will also find "The legal two pound coin is..." Adjective BTW, in case you wondered. -- ALGRIF talk 13:16, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

All my life, and IMO you're just plain wrong on this. It's standard English rather than colloquial English. Would tend to say two pound fifty is standard, and two pounds fifty is probably also standard just less common. Mglovesfun (talk) 21:16, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
All your life in Yorkshire? I lived there also for nearly 10 years (sorry, nearly 10 year, for Tykes). Have it your own way. you always do anyway. -- ALGRIF talk 10:51, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
Don't really like having things my own way, move to tea room, get some more BrE speakers involved. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:54, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

A little Latvian clean-up[edit]

Hi Mglovesfun! I've just realized I've been using the "wrong" template name in most Latvian noun entries: it should be {{lv-decl-noun}}, but I was often writing {{lv-noun-decl}}, in the "wrong" order (e.g., in ūdeņradis). There is a redirect from the former to the latter, so there was no visible consequence, but it irks me that I got so many (several hundred) nouns with the "wrong" template name. Could I perhaps ask you to use your bot to change all occurrences of {{lv-noun-decl}} to {{lv-decl-noun}} in Category:Latvian nouns? Thanks in advance! --Pereru (talk) 16:27, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes, easily. Mglovesfun (talk) 21:17, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
Thanks! I know it's in principle not important, but that obsessive-compulsive little monkey on my left shoulder won't let me sleep unless I find some way of doing that change, so I can have {{lv-noun-decl}} deleted... If you want a more specific list of the pages that have the wrong template name call, here it is: Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:lv-noun-decl. Let me know after you've done the change. --Pereru (talk) 21:35, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
Doing other things, I'm not on the computer as much as I used to be. I shall have it done pretty soon as it's super straight forward. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:46, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
And done. Mglovesfun (talk) 17:11, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
Thanks! And I've already put {{lv-noun-decl}} on the candidates for speedy deletion list. One thing taken care of! :) --Pereru (talk) 22:29, 11 November 2012 (UTC)


I think many of the transclusions of this template are similar to those of {{zhx-zho}}. Could you go over them with AWB like you did before? Thanks! —CodeCat 21:29, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, I tried and failed. But didn't look into why I failed. Could've been a simple typo on my part. Mglovesfun (talk) 21:36, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
servant, at least, contains {{ttbc|zho}}, and I think you already replaced all instances of {{ttbc|zhx-zho}}? —CodeCat 21:42, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
Actually did that by hand, using AWB. That is, not using a find and replace function. Mglovesfun (talk) 21:54, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
I think if an etymology just specifies "Chinese" it should say Sinitic, but could the link itself point to "und" as a language? Or would that not make sense? It might make it easier to track such cases. —CodeCat 17:32, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
Well I've done all of those so you'll have to find them by hand now. When I say all, I think there were about five. AWB is playing up again. Unless it's me, but I don't see how it's me. I'm lost. Mglovesfun (talk) 17:55, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Premature deletion?[edit]

I think you were a bit premature with deleting {{bs}}, {{hr}} and {{sr}}. They are still transcluded on some pages. See Zagreb#Serbo-Croatian and sauna#Serbo-Croatian. —CodeCat 19:19, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

But it doesn't matter. I thought we'd been over this. Mglovesfun (talk) 19:22, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
It does matter if it breaks pages! Here is a list, most of which use the codes to link to Bosnian, Croatian and Serbian Wikipedia:
CodeCat 19:28, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
Exactly! These pages aren't broken because {{wikimedia language name}} handles them. Without it, it would produces "Template:bs Wikipedia has an article on:", but with it produces "Bosnian Wikipedia has an article on:". I can't see what you are referring to, a specific breakage or just the general idea of a breakage. Mglovesfun (talk) 22:32, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
That's very strange. I see "Template:bs Wikipedia has an article on:" on those pages. A null edit doesn't help, it stays broken... so I think something is wrong at your end? —CodeCat 22:41, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
I see the same as you now, but not for the previous few days. Hmm. Shouldn't {{wikimedia language name}} be handling this already? Mglovesfun (talk) 22:53, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
{{wikipedia}} et al. aren't using wikimedia language name. The problem is as simple as that! Mglovesfun (talk) 23:00, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
Thank you, but now the template is broken altogether. Богдан shows "Template:Russian Wikipedia..." —CodeCat 23:04, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I reverted. I have no idea what happened though. Mglovesfun (talk) 23:05, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
I think I fixed it. I replaced {{{{{lang}}}}} (which calls the template) with {{{lang}}} (which doesn't). —CodeCat 23:09, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
{{PL:pedia}} needs doing, {{slim-wikipedia}} too in theory at least. Mglovesfun (talk) 23:13, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

FWIW, I now see "Croatian Wikipedia has an article on: invalid script Horizont događaja". - -sche (discuss) 23:17, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

That might be your own browser then... I see it fine. —CodeCat 23:19, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
I have noticed that it still transcludes the /script templates of those codes, though. Probably because {{wikipedia}} uses {{Xyzy}}. —CodeCat 23:22, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
Ah yes, found it. {{Xyzy}} is returning {{Eror}} as the script, and that template is causing the invalid script message. —CodeCat 23:23, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
I just checked in Opera, and the Eror (sic) message doesn't appear, whereas it still does in Firefox. - -sche (discuss) 23:26, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
There's an argument for restoring the script subtemplates. Also Eror isn't a typo, it's so the code has four letters and an initial capital letter like Latn, Cyrl, etc. Mglovesfun (talk) 09:57, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
There is an argument for it, but in this case I just specified the script in all of the templates. The 'old school' way, as it were. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:17, 16 November 2012 (UTC)


Why did you roll back pixeled? This is a trademarked word under serial ## 77658766 by PIXELED Business Systems,Inc. Even in the references, it is clearly a misuse and should have been "pixelated" instead.

Your edit was terrible. Mglovesfun (talk) 09:35, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

que dalle review?[edit]

Is this phrase as idiomatically 'strong' as some of the idiomatic translations provided? (note, newnoise, iirc, was a WF sock.) - Amgine/ t·e 16:25, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Not one that I've ever used myself, though I have heard of it. I changed it to naff all/sod all as it's not vulgar. Mglovesfun (talk) 18:12, 17 November 2012 (UTC)


No. --SPL908455, Henryk (talk) 18:18, 16 November 2012 (UTC)


In Middle/Old French, this means 100. Can you fix me up an entry? --Adding quotes (talk) 00:33, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

We already have cent and çant as a rare variant form. Not sure about cens. Mglovesfun (talk) 18:09, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
Yeah it's just the plural. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:15, 19 November 2012 (UTC)


Hullo again. I recorded myself saying the term ‘Haitian’ and I would like to know what you think of it before it is used. I am afraid that it may be too quiet (which I am currently not sure how to fix). --Æ&Œ (talk) 14:06, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Why me out of interest? Yes it is quite quiet, also I never know how to pronounce the word. I say /haɪ.i.ʃən/ but I think that's nonstandard (possible just plain wrong). Mglovesfun (talk) 18:11, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
>Why me out of interest?
Because I trust you, and I wasn’t sure whom else to ask. I suppose that I could have enquired over at the information desk, actually. --Æ&Œ (talk) 18:21, 17 November 2012 (UTC)


I'm not sure if this is citeable... seems to be a strange alternative form of sans/sanz, but I'm not sure in which lect (at a certain point, it feels like Old French/Middle French/Anglo-Norman/Law French/Middle English form a continuum, and I don't know where to look). Any ideas? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 20:37, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

No idea, where did you find it? Mglovesfun (talk) 20:52, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
T. H. White. Yes, I know it's fiction, but he did excellent scholarship, and I've added a lot of terms after discovering them there, like vergescu (of course, I always check for attestation first). The exact turn of phrase is Sir Bruce Saunce Pité. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 20:56, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
Done, probably. Mglovesfun (talk) 22:05, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
Thanks (although I have no idea where the hell your cite came from...) —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 22:17, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
Anglo-Norman On-Line Hub, concordance function. That one is the only hit, hence the 'rare' tag. Mglovesfun (talk) 22:20, 17 November 2012 (UTC)


Is the following a grammatically correct sentence? "Religions founded in Saudi Arabia includes Islam." Pass a Method (talk) 21:24, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

"Religions founded in Saudi Arabia include Islam." isn't it? It looks a bit weird even like that, odd use of the passive voice. Mglovesfun (talk) 21:26, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
It's grammatically fine, though (the way Mg has reworded it). It sounds like the sort of line you'd hear in an elementary-school-level documentary about Saudi Arabia. - -sche (discuss) 10:00, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
I agree about it looking a bit weird Pass a Method (talk) 18:30, 20 November 2012 (UTC)


...on clearing out Category:Entries with translation table format problems! - -sche (discuss) 10:00, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Like anything here, if you can put the time and effort in, you will get there in the end. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:11, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

I just…[edit]

This shall likely sound inappropriate or disturbing, but the world is going to end in a few weeks anyway, so bucket.

I love you…er, in a completely, 100% heterosexual way, that is. --Æ&Œ (talk) 06:50, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Template talk:el-l[edit]

An answer to your question of 9 April - sorry for the delay! — Saltmarshαπάντηση 15:08, 22 November 2012 (UTC)


Hi there. Is there something wrong with this template? See ffiero as an example. SemperBlotto (talk) 22:18, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

I removed the span stuff, though, I can't see what the problem is. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:24, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

IPA representation of "qu"[edit]

Hey, you left the note "but why?" after reverting my change marked "Changed representation of "qu" from "kw" to "kʰʷ")" in quail. I think the issue should be taken in a similar way to what was done on squander : "/ˈskwɒndəɹ/, [ˈskʷɒndɚ]", the /IPA/ representing the general phonemic representation, while the [IPA] represents the more specific scope. The example in squander is not aspirated, but quail is almost definitely. As for the labialization vs voice approximant, I am now unsure. The beginning of a qu sound is definitely labialized in my dialect, but I find mixed results online.

Aspiration is not phonemic in English. And we represent the "qu" sound as /kw/ because (1) the labialization is not phonemic and (2) there is a /w/ after the /k/ regardless of whether it is [k] or [kʷ]. --WikiTiki89 05:35, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
Ooh, perhaps I should have done "USA: /kweɪl/, [kʰʷeɪɫ]"? Or are you suggesting that the American pronunciation could even be [kʰʷweɪɫ]? Minime12358 (talk) 13:11, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
I am suggesting that it is [kʰʷweɪəɫ̩], but I think that is overkill. I'd just put [kʰweɪəɫ]. If you were to put use [ʷ], then note that /k/ would also be palatalized before front vowels and you would have to go and add [ʲ] wherever necessary as well. It's too much unnecessary work, since the phonemic representation is the one that actually helps anyone. --WikiTiki89 14:01, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
Narrow transcriptions are of use to people who have mastered the basic phonemes of a language and moved on to trying to produce precise articulations to reduce their accent. A wiki may not be the most reliably error-free place to turn for such transcriptions, but... There's no reason to avoid having (perhaps multiple, increasingly narrower) narrow transcriptions next to the broad transcriptions, is there? - -sche (discuss) 19:48, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Anglo-Norman variants[edit]

I've been adding Anglo-Norman descendants to their Frankish entries but I'm not sure how many variants to add. As I'm sure you known, Anglo-Norman had *a lot* of variation. What would you suggest? —This unsigned comment was added by Victar (talkcontribs).

I try and find out which is the most common form using the Anglo-Norman On-Line Hub concordance function, then list a load of alternative forms in the entry. So if you can link to one entry that has a list of alternative forms in it, that would be my preference. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:52, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

le leur, le vôtre and so on[edit]

Good evening,

since you speak English and French, I would ask you your opinion. These entries are currently simple redirects to mien, etc. I don't think it is a good idea, because the article "le" is compulsory. What do you think? --Fsojic (talk) 02:00, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

As they are pronouns, they should get their page. Lmaltier (talk) 21:16, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
I agree, but with one reservation. It would mean splitting leur, le leur, la leur (and so on) which might not be so good for usability. Mglovesfun (talk) 22:37, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
It would not be good for usability indeed (it should be possible to highlight the fact that there are two different articles, though). But it is necessary, since they are two different things. --Fsojic (talk) 22:43, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
Technical note, this is why using any template in a section header is a bad idea, the title of this section in HTML is .7B.7Bterm.7Cle_leur.7Clang.3Dfr.7D.7D.2C_.7B.7Bterm.7Cle_v.C3.B4tre.7Clang.3Dfr.7D.7D_and_so_on which doesn't happen if you use square brackets or apostrophes. Mglovesfun (talk) 23:17, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
May I point out that le can be used that same way with any adjective (J'ai pris le vert.)? On the other hand, there is lequel, which is pretty much the same but written as one word. --WikiTiki89 23:25, 12 December 2012 (UTC)


I think I saw you mention somewhere that the xs parameter of {{t}} is obsolete. If that's the case, I think you should use MglovesfunBot to get rid of them. Not that it really matters; I just think they're a huge eyesore. Ultimateria (talk) 03:50, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Relevant: Template talk:t#xs again. --Yair rand (talk) 03:55, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
Ah, thanks for the link. I'm so out of the loop on every discussion ever >.< But the discussion doesn't seem particularly resolved... Ultimateria (talk) 04:36, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
I think it's useful to remove xs= because it reduces the size of pages and makes them load ever so slightly faster. However I think it's best to wait before doing it by bot. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:02, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Old French vs Anglo-Norman[edit]

I've noticed that you keep saying that these two are basically the same language. If you can demonstrate that that's true and are willing to combine all the section & whatnot, why don't you suggest at RFDO that we delete {{xno}} and merge the languages?

PS: Could you please create denz? Thanks —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 21:03, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

The reason is Widsith (talkcontribs) says he'd oppose the merger, so I'm not confident I'd get it through. Another, purely selfish reason is it'd undo a lot of my own work. Ironic innit. Mglovesfun (talk) 21:20, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
If he even notices the merger request, of course... but yeah, that is pretty ironic. I dunno. Well, it's kind of like SC on a smaller scale: a fuckload of work, long-term annoyance and complaints, etc, but linguistically a sound decision. Well, whatever you want. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 21:24, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
If someone were to propose such a merge I would support it, but can't be bothered proposing it myself. Mglovesfun (talk) 22:35, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
Well... the question is whether you'd put in the effort of merging if it passed. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 23:59, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
Yes; trying to edit less here to get more done in my 'real' life, but all the same this wouldn't be too hard, and also worth the effort. For one thing I think we'd move {{xno}} to {{etyl:xno}} so Category:Terms derived from Anglo-Norman would remain unchanged, which just leaves the entries and the translations to merge. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:27, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Do see WT:RFDO#Template:xno. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:53, 19 December 2012 (UTC)