User talk:Mglovesfun/Archives/17

Definition from Wiktionary, the free dictionary
Jump to: navigation, search

Esperanto entries[edit]

Sorry about the mess I've made with the ety-section =/. I'll kepp that in mind. Anyway, there is a list about to emerge that contains Esperanto terms deriving from Proto-Indo-European. Would you approve of such a list? I mean, they may be coined from different languages but it is IE nevertheless, so.....Nero86 (talk) 18:49, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

I dunno what you mean appear, you mean you're going to add it to your userpage? Sure, there's nothing wrong with using {{proto}} for Esperanto, just preferably, to use it right first time. Though such minor errors can be corrected, of course. Mglovesfun (talk) 21:53, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply! Um...yeah. More or less. 'Wanted to know if {{proto}} could be used in this context since we cannot always be sure what Zamenhof had in mind when creating any word of Esperanto *shrug*. For example mano which could be coined from Spanish/French/Latin etc. alltogether. I just wanted to make sure if it is right to use {{proto}}, here (and I think that's the case, here).Nero86 (talk) 10:48, 19 April 2012 (UTC)


Hi Gloves, I think you're due your yearly praise too. Well done and stuff. Hope to see you in person again soon. --Itkilledthecat (talk) 22:10, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Well I haven't moved. Am hoping to start a voluntary job until I get a paid job, so hopefully I'll be around less, which probably means my edits will be better. Mglovesfun (talk) 22:11, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
Yup, I read your blog sometimes. Tried using your blog as cites once or twice too. --Itkilledthecat (talk) 22:13, 16 April 2012 (UTC)


Elohim is not an English word as such but the pronunciation of the Hebrew word. The English translation is gods. Post conversion to monotheism in Judaism and Christianity, the definition of the word Elohim has quietly been changed to be singular, to mean the same as El (god). Pterodactyloid (talk) 13:35, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

That's more or less my point, yes! Mglovesfun (talk) 13:36, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
So I take it you think "Hebrew" refers specifically to an unattested ancient language? I have to ask — how do you refer to its descendants after the adoption of Judaism? For example, what term do you use for the language of the Bible? —RuakhTALK 14:46, 17 April 2012 (UTC)


I commend you, sir, for your choice of obscure wiktionary lemmata to indulge in your vandalistic impulses, where the only people you will annoy will be philology geeks. --Dbachmann (talk) 18:24, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

As usual, you made such a fucking mess that the best option was to delete all the bad content leaving on the good content (which I assume to be good, I have no evidence to say that it's good). Moral of the story, don't write bad stuff and editors won't delete it. You've had about a billion warnings, I can only assume you are incapable of learning, or just don't want to. Mglovesfun (talk) 21:58, 18 April 2012 (UTC)


A month? As far as I can tell, the only thing he's guilty of is engaging in a very short, minor scuffle with you on erchan, and then mouthing off a bit. Mind you, Dbachmann has always been a bit too big for his britches, and so I generally don't feel too bad when he gets the occasional block. However, blocking a useful editor for a month over something so trivial seems silly. Perhaps there's some factor I'm not seeing here? -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 22:41, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Dbachmann is a very useful editor. In my eyes his usefulness outweighs his unwillingness to learn Wiktionary formatting. You shouldn't have blocked him at all. --Vahag (talk) 07:49, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
Yes, he is a useful editor and I've unblocked him. Seriously, I see nothing that justifies this edit of yours, or indeed anything else in his recent editing history that justifies a block. —Angr 09:14, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
I'd call him an "unintentional vandal", essentially the same effect as a vandal, just not trying to vandalise. Block was based on past history, I'd consider an indef block for the same reason Verbo (talkcontribs) and 123abc (talkcontribs) got indef blocks, long term disruptive edits. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:18, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
@Vag, the problem is someone has to follow him round correcting his edits, as he doesn't format them. He needs 'babysitting'. If one of you two wants to do that, then fine. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:19, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
I concede that the block was highly questionable. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:52, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
No one has to follow him around formatting his edits for him, because it's a wiki and there is no deadline. It'll get done when it gets done. If you notice something and don't have time to tidy it up, put an {{rfc}} on it or something, but deleting a well-referenced and interesting etymology just because it isn't formatted properly, with no comment other than "zap", and then blocking the editor who wrote it just because he had the temerity to revert your deletion, is really uncivil and not all helpful to either the dictionary per se or the people who work on it. —Angr 15:49, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
Like I say, we've indef blocked for the same reasons before. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:04, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
It should also be noted that there is an important distinction between a new editor who hasn't caught the knack of our formatting, and one who has been here over five years and still makes the most elementary mistakes. The distinction of one of intention. Like it or not, as a community, we're quite strict about formatting, and reasonably so, in my opinion. Dbachmann is a highly useful contributor, and it's my hope that he encounters a bit more reasonableness this time around than last, but he doesn't have free reign to flout all community expectations and conventions. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 23:24, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
The issue I have with that is I don't think anyone ever felt like Verbo and 123abc had bad intentions, they just refused to listen. I think the issue with Dbachmann is that he goes for weeks or months without editing, and administrators forget in between times, while with Verbo and 123abc it was a constant barrage. Mglovesfun (talk) 09:52, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Questions on my bot request[edit]

Hello, I answered your questions on my bot request page. Can you please reconcider your vote? Thanks! - Warddr (talk) 15:28, 20 April 2012 (UTC)


Thanks for catching that. I hadn't noticed I'd left out the colon. - -sche (discuss) 17:59, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Click on frm-noun. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:57, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

État and état[edit]

French Wiktionary differentiates these two (nation and condition) but we have all meanings in the lowercase version. Should we do a split? SemperBlotto (talk) 10:40, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

You're right. I'd instinctively put them both under état but if you look at the citations at fr:État there seems to be a lot of evidence for État. My Larousse dictionary, I believe, lists everything in all capitals like MAISON, TABLE so it'd be of no help to us here. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:53, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
The usual spelling would be Etat because É wasn't available to printers for many years, and when it became available, it was still considered non-standard. But at the French Wiktionary they're fairly resistant to this. Some of these with an initial E- instead of É- got nominated for deletion (there, no on here) but all of them passed, on the grounds they can be found in writing. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:12, 21 April 2012 (UTC)


here Pass a Method (talk) 18:22, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

A bot question[edit]

Considering that you seem to be able to do this with MglovesfunBot, I want to ask: how do I specify in that foo should only be changed to bar if the page that foo is on is in Category:Certaincategory, and only when foo is under the L2 heading for a certain language? --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 19:34, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

I think if you'd read User:MglovesfunBot, you'd know that I don't know. I only use AWB on that account as it's the only thing I know how to use. Mglovesfun (talk) 19:36, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, I didn't realize that. I'll try somebody else, then. --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 19:38, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Always better to ask than to not ask! Mglovesfun (talk) 22:08, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
After some experimenting I found out that it's not very hard to write my own small Python scripts to do bot tasks. That way you can make a bot do anything you like, it's much more flexible than AWB. :) —CodeCat 22:12, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
I'd be happy to learn, I just don't know where to start! Mglovesfun (talk) 22:13, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
I'd like to help you though. I just don't know how. —CodeCat 22:14, 22 April 2012 (UTC)


Any comments on the latest edits to this page? SemperBlotto (talk) 07:25, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

It's now how we do it here, but fair point, vous is used as a singular, and we don't cover it. fr:laissez has the same two definitions. The thing is, for conjugation it's the same - "vous êtes riches", "vous êtes riche". It's the adjectives that have to agree with the singular/plural issue, the vous form remains the same. Mglovesfun (talk) 08:56, 23 April 2012 (UTC)


It looks like this verb could mean to foreclose, but not according to French Wiktionary. Also, I'm not convinced of the conjugation table (I'll try to find time to check it - I'm not going to botify it). SemperBlotto (talk) 11:11, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Simple answer is I don't know, the fr page says only used in the infinitive and the past participle, chances are other forms were used but have become obsolete. So yes, I'd skip it entirely, but create forclos manually. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:19, 26 April 2012 (UTC)


Hi Gloves, can you have a look at saillir for me? There's some missing conjugation here. This'll almost clear out Category:Tbot entries (French), which I've been reducing over the last 125 years or so. Also, I couldn't figure out pouf - sometimes masculine, sometimes feminine, a range of meanings. And entailleur - claims to be a slasher, but I tried to find the equivalent profession in English to that in fr:entailleur and it failed. Can you finish these off? --Itkilledthecat (talk) 13:43, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

I'm sure I can 'fix' some of them, but it's unlikely I could fix them all. Mglovesfun (talk) 13:46, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
Oh wait, you've actually got it down to three? I'm impressed, when I started work on it there were over 1000. Mglovesfun (talk) 13:47, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
Yep, I've been hacking away at it since the year 2009. You're welcome --Itkilledthecat (talk) 15:40, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

File deletion[edit]

Commons I wasn't saying that they've been put on Commons, but that they should be put on Commons... Sorry if that was unclear. koavf (talk) 18:59, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

No, they shoudn't. WM Commons is not a place for files such as File:Hippietrail dictionaries.JPG or File:wiktprob.png. See commons:Commons:What_Commons_is_not#Commons_is_not_your_personal_free_web_host. Please think before you nominate a page for deletion. Maro 19:35, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
@Maro: Wiktionary isn't a free web host, either, though. The second of those files is a troubleshooting file that can stay here, but the first is more questionable. I suppose the case for it is: it'd be quite appropriate for Hippietrail to type up a list of all the dictionaries he has, so why don't we be courteous and allow a picture? But if a file isn't for our interface/project pages/votes, for debugging or of citations, it's fair to question whether it should be deleted/moved. - -sche (discuss) 19:43, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
For deletions that aren't straightforward, we use {{rfd}} not {{delete}}. These should not be deleted without community consensus OR strong evidence that these are copyright infringements. Mglovesfun (talk) 22:29, 26 April 2012 (UTC)


I can't think of an English equivalent of this word. I had the same trouble with the Italian frequentabile. SemperBlotto (talk) 10:05, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Links to the Kurdish Wikipedia[edit]

Hi Mglovesfun:

This isn't {{wikipedia|ku}} correct. I have tried to add parameters of the Kurdish Wikipedia, but it won't work.Could you help me?Thanks.GeorgeAnimal. 15:53, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
wikipedia|lang=ku. Mglovesfun (talk) 15:54, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
Could you make the Kurdish plural forms blink so that I can create the plural forms easily.Thanks.GeorgeAnimal. 13:25, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
I think you mean accelerated, by editing {{ku-noun}}. If so, the answer is yes I can. Mglovesfun (talk) 13:30, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
Yes.ThnaksGeorgeAnimal. 13:29, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
Done.GeorgeAnimal. 09:47, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
Many thanks for the rhymes pages! Mglovesfun (talk) 11:09, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

"not sure what 'borrowed' means"[edit]

I always specify if a French (or other Romance) word is borrowed from Latin, because it explains why it doesn't show the regular sound-changes you'd expect if it was a natural descendant. This is the difference between Latin locāre becoming French localiser (a borrowing) and French louer (a descendant). Ƿidsiþ 07:50, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

So I guess tyran replaced tirant, right? Mglovesfun (talk) 09:41, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Actually no, surprisingly the other way round. Although tiranz is attested first (implying tirant), tiran was probably first (borrowed from Latin TYRANNUS), and the -t came later, it's thought because people interpreted the word as a present participle. (The OED offers, as a comparison, suffragant as a variant form of suffragan.) Ƿidsiþ 10:05, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

So, is it borrowed or not? You seem to be saying it actually derives directly from Vulgar Latin, and the spelling was reformed to reflect the original Latin spelling. I don't think reforming the spelling makes it a borrowing. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:10, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
It was borrowed. It was normal to just drop the -us ending when borrowing into (Old) French, hence TYRANNUS > tiran. (If it had been a natural descendant, you'd expect to see some change/diphthongisation in that first vowel.) Ƿidsiþ 11:47, 6 May 2012 (UTC)


Here is the source, you can find the word in page ۱۵۲ (152). You can also see the word in the title (متنِ اعلامِ نظرِ شورای فرهنگستانِ زبان و ادبِ فارسی درباره‌ی کاربردِ Farsi به جای Persian در مکاتباتِ وزارتِ امورِ خارجه), in the index, in second page. --Z 13:33, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Surely that's a mention; you can't call it an English citation of Farsi, surely. Mglovesfun (talk) 14:42, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
The citations namespace isn't for references, by which I mean other dictionaries, encyclopedias and whatnot, it is for example of uses of the page name in the relevant language, so it should contain uses of the word Farsi in English. References go under the ===References=== header. And we don't reference like Wikipedia, we only really link to dictionaries, though in this case, a review of the usage notes may be appropriate. I'm just not sure what to do with them. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:38, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Mandarin topical categories, where are they now?[edit]

Hi, Do you remember what you have done to Mandarin topical categories (split into traditional/simplified)? Are you able to restore them? We have lost most of the categories and nobody knows how to restore them. Sorry, if it wasn't you but I think it was one of your bots' doing - they were moved or deleted, not sure. If you rename categories, then entries belonging to them should be fixed. --Anatoli (обсудить) 13:36, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

I'm not quite sur what you mean, I think many of these are listed as red links as they have not been created yet. I created {{new cmn topic cat}} as a quick way to create these, though there are probably still thousands that are red links. {{zh-cn}} and {{zh-tw}} are still listed for deletion, though haven't failed. If I've missed the point, do tell me. Mglovesfun (talk) 14:41, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
I don't remember the discussion but many of the red linked topical categories (quite a lot) DID exist but then they were moved or deleted. Someone mentioned you or your bot. Sorry, I don't have much more info at the moment and sorry if you were not involved in any of this. I guess they are just lost now. --Anatoli (обсудить) 23:29, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

What a normally feeling person would have done[edit]

Normally, when someone deletes work in the wiki-sphere (or anywhere else), they have a sense that the person whom they have censored is not going "feel" good about the action. So, the very least you could do, is put a note on my talk page, which, I am guessing, did not even occur to you. This is a serious problem that you need to address. --John Bessa (talk) 15:31, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

You have no deleted edits. Mglovesfun (talk) 15:33, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
Then you have been hacked:
17:51, 28 April 2012 Mglovesfun (Talk | contribs) deleted page User:John Bessa/Dialectic (Off topic, not created by User:John Bessa)
I deeply apologize (and redirect my "diagnosis" to the hacker/cracker). --John Bessa (talk) 15:54, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
You might want to re-read: Off topic, not created by User:John Bessa. Mglovesfun (talk) 15:56, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
Obviously I read it as I pasted on your talk page, so exactly what do you mean by that?--John Bessa (talk) 16:15, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
The record shows that the page was created by an anonymous user who was not logged in. The assumption is that this individual is not you. Since pages in a user's userspace are normally only allowed to be created by that user, the page was deleted. If that page was created by you, the deletion can be undone, unless there is additional reason to have the page deleted. --Yair rand (talk) 16:32, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
Yes it was off topic in any event, it was sort of a 'blog post'. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:35, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
I have reverted; these edits are getting us nowhere. Your user subpage wouldn't pass WT:USER as not related to the Wiktionary project. To bring up links regarding civility for a perfectly valid deletion is madness, so please stop, and do some editing instead. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:47, 29 April 2012 (UTC)


Hi there. Various online resources suggest that this French verb is conjugated like regular -er ones. But I would have thought it was one in which the accent flips between acute and grave. Fr.wiktionary is no help. What do you reckon? SemperBlotto (talk) 10:05, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Which web sites? See [2] for a start. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:08, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
I created the French appendix (see fr:galérer) notice how all the links are blue. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:11, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
Yes. That's what I thought. See, however [3] and [4] (which I found by Googling - I don't normally use them). SemperBlotto (talk) 10:14, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Locker boxing[edit]

Sorry if I made a mistake Mg. --Jeu881 (talk) 17:02, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Writing truth[edit]

Origin: 1175–1225; (v.) Middle English crien < Anglo-French, Old French crier < Vulgar Latin *crītāre for Latin quirītāre to cry out in protest, make a public cry; associated by folk etymology with Quirītēs Quirites; (noun) < Anglo-French, Old French cri, noun derivative of the v.

early 13c., from O.Fr. crier, from L. quiritare "to wail, shriek," var. of quirritare "to squeal like a pig," from *quis, echoic of squealing, despite ancient folk etymology that traces it to "call for the help of the Quirites," the Roman constabulary. The meaning was extended 13c. to weep, which it

early 13c., "beg, implore," from O.Fr. crier, from V.L. *critare, from L. quiritare "to wail, shriek" (cf. It. gridare, O.Sp. cridar, Sp., Port. gritar), of uncertain origin; perhaps a variant of quirritare "to squeal like a pig," from *quis, echoic of squealing, despite ancient folk etymology that traces it to "call for the help of the Quirites," the Roman constabulary. The meaning was extended 13c. to weep, which it largely replaced by 16c. As a noun from late 13c. Most languages, like English, use the general word for "cry out, shout, wail" to also mean "weep, shed tears to express pain or grief." Romance and Slavic, however, use words for this whose ultimate meaning is "beat (the breast)," cf. Fr. pleurer, Sp. llorar, both from L. plorare "cry aloud," but probably originally plodere "beat, clap the hands." Also It. piangere (cognate with Fr. plaindre "lament, pity") from L. plangere, originally "beat," but especially of the breast, as a sign of grief. U.S. colloquial for crying out loud is 1924, probably another euphemism for for Christ's sake. —This unsigned comment was added by Pikkuss (talkcontribs) at 10:50, 3 May 2012‎.

Apart from destroying formatting, I'm not convinced that online dictionaries could be called a reliable source, I mean, this is an online dictionary. Plus you copied the text of etymonline verbatim which is a copyright violation. So I'm gonna have to hide that revision. Also, are quiritare and quirritare actually attested or just hypothetical? Cause if they're hypothetical why would they be any more reasonable than a hypothetical Frankish word? Mglovesfun (talk) 10:43, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
Reply to self: quirītō is in the Collins Gem Latin Dictionary. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:17, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

sg= replaced with head=[edit]

Is this a common practice at all? If so, I could replace most of the occurrences with a bot if you like. —CodeCat 21:48, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Well sg refers to singular; in {{en-proper noun}} sg and head do not do the same job. Head is the one that's most widely supported by headword-line templates, so I try and use head and not pos, sg, current or whatever else there is that I can't think of. I'd like it to be a common practice purely for this reason, but I think sg and head are both common, while current and pos and less common, but not really 'rare'. It should really be discussed on the beer parlour before there are any widespread changes. Mglovesfun (talk) 21:56, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
From the template code it looks like even for {{en-proper noun}} they do exactly the same thing... —CodeCat 22:05, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
You are correct, I meant {{en-plural noun}}, just my hands are more used to typing {{en-proper noun}}! Mglovesfun (talk) 22:07, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
Ah ok! Well of course if anything is changed with a bot, these would be changed on a template-by-template basis, not all together. —CodeCat 22:14, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
The debate seems to say that pos and current can go entirely from headword-line templates, but 'not sure' about sg. The final variant I found was inf, which seems to be only used in {{en-verb}}. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:26, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
Do you think you could make a list of all templates that use other parameters with the same meaning as head= ? —CodeCat 12:12, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
No, you? Mglovesfun (talk) 12:15, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
No, sorry. But it doesn't have to be all of them... just those you know about. —CodeCat 12:26, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
The Hebrew-language headword-line templates use wv and head as synonyms. I believe and Ruakh and I both use wv, so please don't start editing instances, at least not without first discussing it at [[Wiktionary talk:About Hebrew]]. Thanks. (Likewise, I strongly suggest discussing changes to any language's template on its About talkpage, as editors might not pay attention to the BP/GP.)​—msh210 (talk) 17:34, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

î versis i in French terms[edit]

Hi there. French Wiktionary normally has two forms of words beginning with î (one having a normal i). Sometimes one form is defined as an alternative form, and sometimes it's the other way round. I am adding the î-form as the alternative, but we have some terms (e.g. îlot) that are the other way round (or do not even have an alternative form). What do you think we should do? SemperBlotto (talk) 11:33, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Wiktionary:AFR#Spelling reform "Forms added by the 1990 reform of French spelling are given as alternative forms where they are not used much." The versions without circumflexes are a product of this reform, read the appendix for more information if you don't already know about this. I'd imagine you do. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:36, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

"{{MO Cyrl}}"[edit]

MO is a country code and "Moldovan" isn't a language. — [Ric Laurent] — 16:39, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Ah I see where you're coming from now, I didn't consider that. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:40, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Romanian in Cyrillic[edit]


I disagree with your deletion of Moldavian or cyrillised Romanian translation. I don't remember voting for removing the Cyrillic spelling. The vote was about merging the languages, not about removing the Cyrillic spelling. --Anatoli (обсудить) 01:23, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

For what it's worth, the vote said: "Romanian words which meet Wiktionary's general Criteria for Inclusion will be allowed, whether they are written in the Latin script, in the historical Cyrillic script (in use before 1860) or in the modern Cyrillic script (in use before 1989 in Moldova and still in use in Transnistria)." So we should presumably handle Latin vs Cyrillic Romanian the way we handle Latin vs Cyrillic Serbo-Croatian, including in translations sections. - -sche (discuss) 02:02, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
Yes, that's right. I have fixed the translation of Tiraspol as follows:
* Romanian: {{t-|ro|Tiraspol|m}}
*: Cyrillic: {{t|ro|Тираспол|m|sc=Cyrl}}
The section had previously:
* [[Moldavian]]: {{t|mo|Тираспол|m|tr=Tiraspol|sc=Cyrl|xs=Moldavian}}.

--Anatoli (обсудить) 02:32, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

As you say, I removed the Moldavian not the Romanian, because {{t|mo}} doesn't work because of the lack of a {{mo}} template. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:51, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
Interesting logic. Well, you have removed the template. Well, that's OK if you deal with entries that use them properly, not by deleting the info, of course. --Anatoli (обсудить) 22:50, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
But doing things right is just such a hassle.... — [Ric Laurent] — 23:04, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
Alas, :) --Anatoli (обсудить) 00:27, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
Basically yeah. Mglovesfun (talk) 08:29, 8 May 2012 (UTC)


I ask because you're online and British: is the stress really on the first syllable of dystopia in the UK? Ultimateria (talk) 20:23, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

For me, no, always on the second. But I'm not sure I've ever heard the word spoken out loud. Mglovesfun (talk) 20:27, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
Definitely 2nd in the UK. SemperBlotto (talk) 21:17, 15 May 2012 (UTC)


The article Neurotoxin. The etymology of Toxin is the Latin Toxicum, or "poison". The root of Toxicum is the Greek word toxikon pharmakon, or "arrow poison". It is linked to the Neurotoxin article. Please stop trolling about and do something useful instead. Hotspur23 (talk) 21:17, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

You think this is the wisest course of action to get the entry restored, do you? Check out Category:Ancient Greek adjective forms to see how to format Ancient Greek adjective forms, you were way out. Mglovesfun (talk) 21:19, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
Sigh, please don't be a vandalism-only account. Mglovesfun (talk) 21:40, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

hash brownies[edit]

hash brownie[edit]

Ah, fair enough. I still think it's unlikely that hash browns influenced hash brownies, but I agree it's certainly possible. I could change the etymology to "From hash and brownie, possibly influenced by hash browns" if you prefer. Smurrayinchester (talk) 21:19, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Your call. Mglovesfun (talk) 21:20, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
Eh, there's no harm (plus it saves me having to put "Not to be confused with hash browns" at the top of the page). Smurrayinchester (talk) 21:32, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
Fair point. Mglovesfun (talk) 21:33, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
  • "Hash" / "hashish" in brownies is a processed form of pot that is supposed to have more of the active ingredient THC. I think the etymology of brownie is clear, and it clearly has nothing to with "hash browns" other than the color. "Hash" in hash browns has to do with hashing the potatoes (i.e. cutting them up into little bits), and the "brown" refers to the brown color from cooking the potatoes in oil on a hot griddle.
In short, the two terms are common in terms of both being food and both being brown -- that's it. -- Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 21:35, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

99 percent[edit]

There's a potentially dictionary-worthy meaning of the term. I was simply adding it since I saw it in Recent Changes. That Guy Over There (talk) 21:44, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Well you should add it, but not delete everything else on the page. I'm not sure that we can find a dictionary-worthy meaning of this between us. Mglovesfun (talk) 21:49, 15 May 2012 (UTC)


this bot action is not correct in that "L." ~here is the (usual) scientific abbreviation for the genus name Linus that was just mentioned before, not a reference to the Latin language. Jcwf (talk) 01:33, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Fair enough, this edit was in 2010 so to be honest I don't know what to say. Mglovesfun (talk) 09:13, 18 May 2012 (UTC)


I dunno why you insist on adding plural. The plural isn't always a principal part. — [Ric Laurent] — 19:48, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

It was requested on the talk page, that's all. Mglovesfun (talk) 19:49, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
Not all requests are good ideas. — [Ric Laurent] — 01:24, 19 May 2012 (UTC)


Hi there. Could you check the conjugation please. It looks like it might be -é-er, but fr.wiktionary seems to use simple -er (with a varied pronunciation scheme). SemperBlotto (talk) 15:44, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

{{fr-conj-er}}, same as créer. é-er needs a consontant between the é and the e. Mglovesfun (talk) 09:07, 22 May 2012 (UTC)


Hello, You have just reverted my edit of ҙүҙлек. This page should be deleted - its title is misspelled. See һүҙлек. "ҙүҙлек" does not exist in Bashkir.

I am a native speaker, just in case )

Regards,Borovi4ok (talk) 13:58, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Well, you should've said that, all you've done is added a link saying "Common misspelling of һүҙлек." to the top of the page and NOT nominated it for deletion. You should probably as its creator User:Dick Laurent to delete it directly. He will probably agree, if he doesn't it would be a case for {{rfv}}. Mglovesfun (talk) 14:03, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
Ok, can you have it deleted, one way or another? This word does not exist in Bashkir. Borovi4ok (talk) 14:06, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
I could but I'd like the consent of Dick Laurent, which you can get directly by asking him. Also since I don't speak any Bashkir I can't verify your claim. It's not a question of not believing you, but rather of doing some fact checking before deleting it, which I can't do. Mglovesfun (talk) 14:07, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
OK. Sorry it's so complicated.Borovi4ok (talk) 14:10, 22 May 2012 (UTC)


Hi there (again). The French wiktionary gives two conjugations for this verb. Do we have a template for the -elle form? SemperBlotto (talk) 11:01, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

    • Forget it - I have remembered -xx-er. SemperBlotto (talk) 11:04, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Please unblock my bot[edit]

I've started a vote as you asked, that ended on april 20 and passed [5]. Can you please unblock? - Warddr (talk) 15:16, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, it should already be unblocked, I thought Stephen G. Brown did it. In any event the answer is 'yes I can and I will'. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:05, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
Ha SGB gave it a bot flag but then didn't unblock it. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:06, 26 May 2012 (UTC)


Tnx for cleaning after me. БТЊ, I was wondering whether the sc=Cyrl is necessary in the Template:l. Wouldn't the template link to the appropriate entry without this script parameter? Cheers, --BiblbroX дискашн 21:14, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

It depends. Serbo-Croatian uses two scripts in equal proportions, and I already suggested changing the default script to Latin some time ago. So if that's changed, then sc=Cyrl would be needed to override the default. —CodeCat 23:39, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
I changed the default script for sh to Latn quite recently. Mainly script templates are for prettiness i.e. appearance. Latin and Cyrillic scripts are similar enough that it's barely noticeable (for me, anyway) whereas for scripts like Arabic and Hebrew it makes a massive difference. In reply, no, a script template does not change a link, it changes the appearance of a link. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:14, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
I surely can't notice the difference: to me the link appears identical in both cases. This is more or less I get in either case:
Does this difference in appearance have to do with my preferences? Browser perhaps? Many entries should be updated and I should change my edit habits as well. --BiblbroX дискашн 13:41, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
It depends on your system and the fonts you have installed and maybe on your browser as well. I see Ahilej, Ахилеј and Ahilej, Ахилеј quite differently. —CodeCat 13:46, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

IPA symbols[edit]

Where should I get the symbols from for the IPA guides. I believe I did one of two things on antibacterial. I either copied and pasted from the IPA page on wiktionary/wikipedia ? or I used the IPA symbols on the edit form by clicking on special characters. How should I write the IPA symbols most efficiently? Speednat (talk) 23:28, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Copy across from existing entries, and/or use the IPA tool bar from the dropdown list on the edit page, right at the bottom of the page when editing. Mglovesfun (talk) 08:46, 27 May 2012 (UTC)


I found another approach to the etymology here "Sumerian Bau+Dug becomes Hungarian Bodog". Though I can't find Sumerian entries, does Wiktionary list those? Really just trying to figure out if it's a real term prior to the organization. 'Hungarian' keeps coming up. This page spells it with an accent as "Bódog" so that could be it. Sure it couldn't mean 'Lucky'? Etym (talk) 14:59, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Yes it seems to be a copyright violation, and a copyright violation which is also nonsense. What is it based on? I think your source is a joke, I mean literally a deliberate joke Mglovesfun (talk) 15:03, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

No joke intended, I just checked Appendix:Names_male-B#Bo-Boz and the "Bódog" spelling is there, though I couldn't tell you who added it or when. As far as I'm aware, the "Bodog" spelling without the accent over the 'o' would just be a normalization of it. Could the article be made at the accented spelling and redirect the non-accented spelling to there? Etym (talk) 15:11, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

No, WT:REDIR, also I mean the idea it's derived from Latin felix is ludicrous. I'd definitely ask Panda10 (talkcontribs), our most experienced Hungarian editor to do it. It may well be a given name, just not from Latin felix... Mglovesfun (talk) 15:42, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

I agree with you about that, I'm thinking they picked Felix merely because it had a synonymous meaning. That's why I'm wondering about possible Sumerian origins from that other link. The etymology remains bathed in mystery but it seems real enough. Etym (talk) 18:39, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the correction[edit]

I thought {{sg}} was 'singular', not 'Sango' -- thanks for pointing that out to me. --

Declension Mention-Free {{lv-noun}}[edit]

User:Pereru asked me about what happens if {{lv-noun}} is used and I said that mentioning the declension type might have something to do with it. I don't think that it's necessary, so I think that it has to get a face-lift just like how Dick Laurent updated {{et-noun}}. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 02:39, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply. Erm, would you like my input in some way? If so, what? Mglovesfun (talk) 12:07, 9 June 2012 (UTC)


I use the asterisk now. I realized about a week in that the asterisk looked better, but I must not have changed all the ones that I did without. Thanks for the pointer. Speednat (talk) 17:10, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

"use WT:RE:yi"[edit]

Why?RuakhTALK 18:35, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

A couple of reasons, 1) to clear out Wiktionary:Todo/anomalous section0 content 2) to add the entry to WT:RE:yi 3) {{defn}} is apparently a bot-only template, where the human variant is {{rfdef}} 4) rfdef goes inside a language section, which is perfectly doable in this situation as long as you know the part of speech. Mglovesfun (talk) 19:23, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
That makes sense, thank you. (And thanks for adding the entry to WT:RE:yi; I had taken your edit summary to mean "someone should put this at WT:RE:yi", but now I realize that it meant "I'll put this at WT:RE:yi", which is more helpful!) I don't normally use {{defn}}; what made me think of using it this time was that I'd recently read Opiaterein (talkcontribs)'s explanation at User talk:MaEr#[1] that, so far as I can tell, advocated exactly this use. I guess I'll have to add a comment there . . . —RuakhTALK 19:40, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Replacing & Deleting {{lv-noun-decl}}[edit]

Gauss told me you have a bot, so I thought I might ask you to help me with some cleanup tasks in the lv (Latvian) words here. To conform to local naming standards, {{lv-noun-decl}} has been changed to {{lv-decl-noun}} and replaced with a redirect. I wanted to change all its occurrences in the words I have edited (all members of Category:Latvian first declension nouns and Category:Latvian fourth declension nouns) and then delete {{lv-noun-decl}}, leaving only {{lv-decl-noun}}. Similarly, {{lv-noun-decl-1}} and {{lv-noun-decl-4}} can be deleted, since all the links to them now point to {{lv-decl-noun-1}} and {{lv-decl-noun-4}}. (The older versions have been kept as deprecated -- {{lv-decl-noun-1-deprecated}}, {{lv-decl-noun-4-deprecated}}, {{lv-decl-noun-deprecated}}; these three could probably also be deleted). I'd be thankful if you could do these things for me. Thanks in advance. --Pereru (talk) 18:57, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes I can do that, can and will. Mglovesfun (talk) 20:50, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Adding a parameter to {{lv-noun}}[edit]

Hi again! May I ask you another favor? Most of the words in Category:Latvian first declension nouns, Category:Latvian second declension nouns, and Category:Latvian fourth declension nouns lack a clear indication of their declension type (which is why they ended up in Category:Latvian terms needing attention). This is because I forgot to add a declension parameter (actually at first I didn't know it was possible) to the template {{lv-noun}}. Now, most of these words have {{lv-noun|m}} or {{lv-noun|f}} in their pages, which should be changed to {{lv-noun|m|1st}}, {{lv-noun|m|2nd}} (for first and second declension nouns, all masculine) and {{lv-noun|f|4th}} (for fourth declension nouns, all feminine). I'd be very thankful if you could do these changes for me with your bot. Thanks in advance! --Pereru (talk) 09:22, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

How can I make the bot know the difference between the declensions. If all feminine nouns are 4th declension, that's easy enough, but what about the masculine ones? Mglovesfun (talk) 09:29, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
All first declention words are listed in Category:Latvian first declension nouns. You could let your bot change the template (by adding |1st}}) only in the words in that category (all masculine) -- as I recall, there are python scripts that operate only on the members of a given wiki category. Or, if you prefer, you could make a list with these words (by simply copying and pasting them from the category page), and then you could have your bot change the template only in the words of that list. Likewise for Category:Latvian second declension nouns and Category:Latvian third declension nouns (I could make the lists for you if you prefer.) --Pereru (talk) 19:20, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
Maybe it would be easier to allow the declension table template to do the categorisation? I assume that there are several of them, so each one could correspond to a category. —CodeCat 19:28, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
I've already done that -- the declension tables generate the categories. But {{lv-noun}} needs a category parameter for the inflection line -- if it doesn't have one, the word is automatically added to Category:Latvian terms needing attention. To get them out of there, it is necessary to add this extra parameter. --Pereru (talk) 20:07, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
It's also possible to simply remove that bit from {{lv-noun}}. But not as a quick fix, only if it's the right thing to do overall. Mglovesfun (talk) 20:37, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
Indeed, that is also a possible solution. But I do like the idea of a quick declension type identification next to the headword in the inflection line. Besides, isn't this the general practice here for inflectional languages that the declension type be indicated on the inflection line? --Pereru (talk) 09:55, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
Latin and Ancient Greek do it, so I suppose so. Mglovesfun (talk) 09:56, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
I could skip the bot bit actually, only 165 entries in Category:Latvian terms needing attention, some of which don't use {{lv-noun}}. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:00, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
Indeed, Category:Latvian terms needing attention has words with other problems, not only those lacking a declension number in the inflection line. But now there are far fewer words for me to fix. Thanks! --Pereru (talk) 15:17, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Categorizing Latvian noun forms by case and number[edit]

I have created a new template that categories Latvian noun forms ({{lv-inflection of}}), so that I can automatically generate categories of case/number forms like Category:Latvian noun forms (dative plural). I now need to change all occurrences of {{inflection of}} as in e.g. brīvības to {{lv-inflection of}} (as in e.g. draudzības)... and again I need your bot's help! (I hope I'm not asking too much help from you.)

The change must apply to all pages in Category:Latvian noun forms (except those few I have already changed and the new ones I create now, of course). In each page, three little things must be changed in the {{inflection of}}:

  • the lang=lv parameter must be removed;
  • the || (two pipe symbols) must become only one | pipe symbol;
  • the template name inflection of must be changed to lv-inflection of

So, for example:

  • {{inflection of|XXXXX|lang=lv||gen|s}} --> {{lv-inflection of|XXXXX|gen|s}}
  • {{inflection of|YYYYY||dat|p|lang=lv}} --> {{lv-inflection of|XXXXX|dat|p}}

There's about 1,700 pages to be changed in the 'Latvian noun forms' category, which is a lot of work. Again I will be very thankful for your help, and I hope I'm not asking for too much. --Pereru (talk) 04:15, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

You've presented the information well, so yeah it looks pretty doable. Will probably to it later today. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:43, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Done. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:09, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
1,774 thanks! --Pereru (talk) 23:38, 16 June 2012 (UTC)


Can you explain how interlanguage links are meant to work on Wiktionary? Apparently (according to your correction) I was wrong to link anode to de:Anode (the German noun). Is it meant to link to the English word anode on the German Wiktionary? I am a little confused because the link to German Wiktionary now points to French anode, and several others have the same problem. SpinningSpark 18:04, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Not problem but policy, interwikis should be for titles which are exactly identical. One reason is imagine how many possible translations there are for a word like set. Maybe dozens or even 100, that would be 100 German interwiki links. So link should always be identical. Mglovesfun (talk) 18:06, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
Just to be clear, we can put in an interlanguage link even if the target page does not (yet) have a section for English? SpinningSpark 18:25, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
Oh yes. I more or less never touch interlanguage links, I let bots do them. Mglovesfun (talk) 18:26, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Double l spellings[edit]

First and foremost, a few other speakers also from the U.S. had already pointed out that both were used on their talk pages. Second, considering this wiki has a boatload of terms marked chiefly UK that are (in fact) used in the United States (whether they are regional, dated etc) tends to make me lose my faith in this dictionary.

In addition, I was thinking about raising a discussion about those TWO specific words, but I wasn't sure exactly where I should put it. Then I decided that (because there would be a whole bunch of "Howdy! I'm from Texas! Y'all don't know what youse talking 'bout."s, I decided that (rather than make my self more ticked off) just edit the pages themselves.

If you have a better idea that doesn't end in "b3cuz T3x@s duznt uze it, it iznt uzed n @m3r1c@", please let me know. Tharthan (talk) 18:18, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

I've already proposed such an idea, haven't I? Mglovesfun (talk) 18:20, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

I don't recall you doing so. Tharthan (talk) 18:34, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

WT:TR. Mglovesfun (talk) 18:43, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

[Note: I said without the southern shenanigans] I'd be happy to start a tea room discussion, but considering the majority of the southern United States is on wiktionary (because there is more of them) and folks from the North and Northeast (like myself) number a small few users, I doubt my proposal would be accepted. I can, however, guarantee that the double-l rule does exist in the New England region of the US. If it makes it any easier, one might compare some New Englanders to Scottish English (but not Scots) speaking folk in Scotland. They may retain some (purported) "archaisms," meaning that those "archaisms" are only archaic outside of the area. The same is true for New England (Rhode Island in particular.) Tharthan (talk) 18:47, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

We have some New England users on here you know! Also, you know you're coming across as rather xenophobic, is that your intention? Mglovesfun (talk) 18:51, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

It's not intentional, but some (clears throat) good old loafwards are moving into the state I live in, bringing with them their "on accidents" and "merry, Mary, marry mergers", which are not normally present in Rhode Island. Thankfully, they have been ridiculed for it, and we continue to speak a less butchered English. So when I saw certain things that had (and hopefully will) always existed within my state listed as only existing within the Commonwealth, I was shocked. I then made it my goal to fix any errors pertaining to that field on Wiktionary. Tharthan (talk) 19:00, 14 June 2012 (UTC)


You asked that someone add a sense to [[contemporaneous]] whereby "contemporaneous with name-of-extinct-language" means "existing when name-of-extinct-language was living", if anyone could. The thing is, I think that's just the usual sense, so I don't want to add it as a separate sense; but, in the spirit of fulfilling your request, I've added one relevant cite to the existing sense, and here are two more:

  • 1992, page 139:
    [] Lycian, roughly contemporaneous with Classical Greek, has effaced it entirely.
  • 2001, [] page 86:
    [] occurs in Aramaic, a language closely related to and contemporaneous with Hebrew, and []

RuakhTALK 01:45, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm happy to drop this one. Mglovesfun (talk) 09:23, 15 June 2012 (UTC)