User talk:IvanScrooge98

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Again, welcome!

You've been adding entries that don't meet our Criteria for inclusion- please read that before you add any more. We sometimes make a temporary exception when a term meets all the other criteria, but is too new to meet the one-year requirement. I don't think we would do that for terms that are only used on personal web pages, though. Also, please don't link to numbered etymology sections: all it takes is for someone to insert another etymology in front of yours and suddenly you're linking to the wrong one. Chuck Entz (talk) 14:57, 7 September 2015 (UTC)


What do those asterisks mean? They’re not IPA characters. — Ungoliant (falai) 18:23, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

See Appendix:Italian pronunciation. If you don't agree, I'll let you remove both the asterisk on and the one in the appendix. IvanScrooge98 (talk) 17:54, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Oh, OK. Thanks for answering. — Ungoliant (falai) 17:56, 23 September 2015 (UTC)


Sorry about that revert; I only saw a small part and thought you were adding a bad ttbc. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 19:36, 27 December 2015 (UTC)


Hi there. I don't think this word has anything to do with Francia. SemperBlotto (talk) 20:45, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Italian playing cards[edit]

Hi there. I don't think that Italian playing cards look like the ones in that table. The ones at Carte_da_gioco#Semi_italiani seem to be more representative of the ones I have seen. SemperBlotto (talk) 16:54, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[edit]

Perché? --kc_kennylau (talk) 18:22, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Produce /nj/ /ʎ/ ? --kc_kennylau (talk) 02:29, 11 February 2016 (UTC)


I find your signature excessively colorful. To my taste, it is inappropriate. Furthermore, placing an Italian flag on every signature seems to be in poor taste. However, my taste is not Wiktionary policy, and other editors may differ. --Dan Polansky (talk) 14:38, 9 April 2016 (UTC)


Salve. Si pronunzia come [ˈal.kuno]? --Romanophile (contributions) 22:29, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

@Romanophile: no, è /alˈ; l'ho appena aggiunto alla pagina. IvanScroogeNovantotto (parla con me) 08:09, 10 April 2016 (UTC)


Hello, I've undone your edits there:

  • In JA entries, unless there is limited space, we provide applicable WP links to both JA and EN articles.
  • We only add pitch accent where it is clear. I cannot find references giving a specific pitch accent, and in spoken Japanese, I have variously heard both accent patterns 0 and 2. Unless you have clear evidence otherwise, we omit the pitch accent when trends are unclear.
  • Links in glosses use the generic [[]] format, as noted at WT:ELE.

‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 17:11, 30 May 2016 (UTC)


Hello, I've reverted most of your edits at ありがとう. A number of the reasons are identical to ゴジラ above. In addition:

  • The ===Pronunciation=== section is admittedly messy, but since this entry lists so many different dialectal variations, we have resorted to manually listing them and forgoing the use of the acc parameter in the top call to {{ja-pron}}. This is quite intentional -- using acc changes the format in ways that is undesirable.
  • The formatting in the ===Etymology=== section is also quite deliberate: various readings are intentionally placed outside of the calls to {{m}} in order to prevent excessive parenthesization, which makes the entry harder to read.
  • The {{etyl}} language is given as ojp, but in many cases, the linked term is extant in modern or Classical Japanese as well, so by convention, we use ja as the second parameter to {{m}}. The situation for how best to handle Classical and Old Japanese is somewhat unsettled, so if you have strong opinions about this, I suspect the Japanese editor community here would be open to discussion. The best avenue for that is probably the Wiktionary:Beer parlor, at least to start -- there is also the Talk page at WT:About Japanese, but that doesn't get much attention.

‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 18:08, 30 May 2016 (UTC)


You can't tag something for deletion just because you've never heard of it before. We have a page, WT:RFV, where entries can be posted to assure that they're actually used, but looking at google books:"la gondoleta" and google books:"le gondolete" seems to confirm that this is a real word in Italian, even if quite a rare one. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 01:08, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

@Metaknowledge: No, it's not: if you look at the ways and sentences they're used in, you'll see it's an alternative spelling of Venetian gondołéta: it is gondoletta in Italian. IvanScroogeNovantotto (parla con me) 13:02, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
Ivan, you are completely missing the point of my message. To repeat, you can't tag something for deletion just because you've never heard of it before. I have added the RFV tag to gondoleta, and I ask that you now post it there instead. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 17:33, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

Japanese phonology[edit]

There is some disagreement regarding consonantal palatalization in Japanese, and Wiktionary does not necessarily hew to Wikipedia's content. See sections 3.8 and 3.9 regarding /m/ and /n/, for instance, where this author discounts the idea of [mʲ] or [nʲ]. From what I have seen, I believe part of the disagreement comes from variations between individual speakers and different speech registers. In hyper-pronunciation, for instance, the usually-devoiced ɯ̥] invalid IPA characters (]) in common verb ending ます (masu), or interstitially in the (su) in インストール (insutōru), is realized as voiced [ɯ]. The ===Pronunciation=== section is intended to give the more common rendering, not hyper-pronunciation. For palatalization in specific, regarding your recent edits to {{ja-pron}}, explicitly palatalized variants [nʲ] or [mʲ] seem more common in Tokyo-standard public-facing feminine speech such as in anime, but I encounter them less frequently in everyday speech. [kʲi] is widely recognized, but [kʲe] is not, such as described here on page 132 of the article "Japanese phonology: a functional approach". Also, my understanding of the notation was that [kʲj] is redundant and that [kj] is preferred. I've reverted your edit to {{ja-pron}}. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 20:24, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

@Eirikr: ok, I simply relied on the Wikipedia article because there is still no reference in Wiktionary on Japanese phonology and {{IPA}} with ja set in parameter lang links to it. Don’t worry, I’ll leave the template as it is. Sorry. IvanScroogeNovantotto (parla con me) 20:34, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
No worries, thank you for replying. I would support inclusion of [kʲi], FWIW, but I'm not as savvy with Lua as I'd like to be. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 20:38, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
@Eirikr: done! IvanScroogeNovantotto (parla con me) 20:57, 6 July 2016 (UTC)


Thanks for giving me the opportunity to ramble about Spanish phonetics ;) Expect a long reply soon. Cheers. Mr KEBAB (talk) 16:13, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

German -r-[edit]

Concerning your edits on Sangria. We transcribe German "r" as ʁ rather than ʀ. German wiktionary uses the latter, but it's actually a pretty rare pronunciation. (I don't know if you edit German entries a lot, but just so you'll know when you do.) Best regards! Kolmiel (talk) 22:01, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

@Kolmiel: all right, I just thought I could use either. IvanScroogeNovantotto (parla con me) 08:36, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
In principle, yes :) It's not a wrong transcription, as I said. But you know, in the name of consistency... Kolmiel (talk) 11:59, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Catalan pronunciation[edit]

I've added Valencian pronunciation too now. But there are some difficulties because there are some words where the two languages don't match: one may have a close-mid vowel while the other has an open-mid vowel. I don't know a lot about this phenomenon, but it appears that where they differ, Central always has the open-mid vowel while Valencian always has close-mid. If this is the case, then we might use the special signs ê and ô to indicate this. Could you elaborate on this maybe?

We may also want to include one or more Balearic dialects into the module, but they have an additional stressed vowel /ə/ which seems to correspond to /ɛ/ or /e/ in the other varieties. Do you know more about the correspondences? If the Balearic vowel is known to be /ə/, can the vowel of the other dialects always be predicted from this? —CodeCat 21:24, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

@CodeCat: To be honest, my knowledge on the topic didn't go much further than yours. But I made some research and it seems that Vulgar Latin /e/ (from Classical Latin Ē or Ĭ) developed in Central Catalan as /ɛ/, in Valencian as /e/ and Balearic as /ə/ (as in vermell, cadena, creure); if it's so, in Valencian the results happened to be the same as Italian, or similar (vermiglio, caténa, crédere): see anglés, Italian inglése. When it comes to O, I have no idea, but the case of E is apparently easy to arrange. [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔt̪ːo] (parla con me) 07:19, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

BTW, one thing I've just spotted: since in Central Catalan V is equivalent to B, /nb/ sound display as /mb/; indeed, in that dialect it is phonemically /mb/, /v/ (and therefore /nv/) not being possible. [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔt̪ːo] (parla con me) 15:38, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Fixed. —CodeCat 15:47, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
@CodeCat: I have made some further research and in summary:
  • Latin breve Ĕ gave origin to:
    • /ɛ/ (in certain words, which we would leave as è) in all dialects for the same word;
    • /e/ (in other words, which we would leave as é) in all dialects for the same word.
  • Latin long Ē or breve Ĭ originated (this vowel had better become ê in the module):
    • /ɛ/ in Central Catalan;
    • /e/ in Western Catalan;
    • /ə/ in Balearic.
Of course, one has to know the etymology to be able to insert the correct E.
It seems O stays unchanged throughout the dialects, but I might be mistaken; could you give me some examples? [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔt̪ːo] (parla con me) 10:28, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
This is useful as a general rule, but reality may not be so neatly predictable. What I'd really like is a website that lists the pronunciations of these various areas. Catalan Wiktionary has some, but it's missing a lot too and I have no idea how reliable it is. —CodeCat 13:31, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
@CodeCat Well, probably the Catalan Wiktionary and Wikipedia are somewhat more reliable than Wikimedia projects in other languages, but I agree, many entries there lack a complete transcription of the main dialectal variants; but as a general rule that's the best we can do unless we find a list, as you said, or a reliable dictionary with pronunciation variants. I would personally keep this rule, as long as the pronunciations can be verified. [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔt̪ːo] (parla con me) 14:00, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
Sorry, what do you mean by "lack a complete transcription" on ca.wikt? In some entries or they are incomplete? Maybe the notation is not clear enough. Oriental = Central + Balearic, Occidental = Valencian + North-western. In most cases Eastern and Western is enough. A Catalan speaker understand this main classification but perhaps it is confusing. --Vriullop (talk) 08:44, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
Diccionari ortogràfic i de pronúncia (2004) is probably the closest to what you're looking for though, AFAIK, it covers exclusively the Central variety. Maybe go ask people on Catalan Wiktionary/Wikipedia? Mr KEBAB (talk) 01:49, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
@Mr KEBAB: we actually need a dictionary that shows up phonetic variation among the dialects, to be certain on when Balearic stressed /ə/ appears. We know already about Central Catalan phonetics. [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 08:36, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
I'm not sure whether such a thing even exists. If it does, chances are it's a website. Have you asked on Catalan Wikipedia/Wiktionary? Maybe they won't provide you with loads of citations, but maybe you'll find someone willing simply to discuss the issue in depth, which is equally helpful (Wiktionary is not as strict with sources as Wikipedia, they seem to let you do your thing as long as you know what you're doing). I'll keep looking myself and will notify you if I find something. Mr KEBAB (talk) 16:21, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
@Mr KEBAB: not long ago I have found this website that apparently gives different dialectal variants, but you need an account; I registered, but I still haven't received the confirmation email so I can't log in yet. [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 16:27, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
Same here as far as the confirmation mail is concerned, but great find. Judging by what they write about it, it's really impressive. Mr KEBAB (talk) 17:10, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
In any case, I've just messaged a user I know on the Catalan Wiktionary, let's just wait. [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 17:15, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
@Mr KEBAB: user Vriullop (talkcontribs) from ca.wikt is willing to help, though for the moment he's on vacation and is seldom on Wiktionary: he will later have the time. Meanwhile, he assured me that website is the most reliable, showing, as it says, a variety of pronunciations. He also told me that he's not certain whether Valencian /e/ corresponds to Balearic /ə/. We'll all be working on that soon! [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 18:19, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
Thinking it better, it seems Balearic /ə/ actually corresponds to /ɛ/-/e/ of Central and Western as it was also /ə/ in Old Central Catalan. An explanation with a map, in Catalan: --Vriullop (talk) 19:33, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
Exactly what I had concluded after my research! Thank you!! [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 19:39, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
For Valencian pronunciations, I found [1], which tells you the pronunciations using X-SAMPA based notation. E and O stand for open vowels, e and o for closed ones. For example, for obert: obert, oberta; oberts, obertes adj. [É] —CodeCat 19:49, 23 August 2016 (UTC)


I only just noticed this see [[2]] If you make changes to templates you really need to double check them! — Saltmarshσυζήτηση-talk 14:41, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

@Saltmarsh: Oops, I really didn't notice. Thank you so much! [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 15:27, 5 September 2016 (UTC)


Hi. I don't think you should change Khmer transcriptions to the Khmer Module:km-translit. The module does a poor job. It's in beta form, but I don't see how it would ever be possible to make it work well. Khmer script is too complicated, and it's very often not phonetic. —Stephen (Talk) 09:34, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

@Stephen G. Brown: okay, thanks for the information, I didn’t know. I’m not going to use the module transliteration any longer. ;) [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 13:23, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

Template def[edit]

Template def recently lost a vote: Wiktionary:Votes/2016-07/Placing English definitions in def template or similar. Please don't add it as you did in diff. --Dan Polansky (talk) 06:49, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

@Dan Polansky: oh, thanks for letting me know; I won't add it any more. ;) [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 13:20, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
You can add it, other experienced users like User:Angr use it as well. The vote was only about automating the process. —CodeCat 15:30, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
@CodeCat: ah, thank you, I should read more carefully. :'D [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 16:09, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
If you read the vote and the votes in it, you will realize that does not make sense. The posts in the vote shows there is consensus against use of the template. CodeCat is a proponent of def and lost. Angr repeatedly told us that "votes are evil", disregarding all arguments to the contrary, and I am not surprised to see him do such a thing.
If adding of {{def}} continues, it will be necessary to bring the bureaucracy to its conclusion, and create a vote that forbids the template outright. I would hope that is not necessary.
Alternatively, I may need to start manually remove the template, since consensus is against it and status quo ante prevails anyway, but we have better use for my time and attention. --Dan Polansky (talk) 18:55, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

{{uk-IPA}} stress mark issue[edit]

Hi IvanScrooge, when going to ви говорите англійською, I added {{uk-IPA}} with appropriate stress accents (ви гово́рите англі́йською). However, the result ended up like [ʋe ɦɔˈu̯ɔrete ɐˈnɦlʲii̯sʲkɔjʊ]. Shouldn't [ɐˈnɦlʲii̯sʲkɔjʊ] be [ɐnˈɦlʲii̯sʲkɔjʊ]? – AWESOME meeos * (「欺负」我) 21:43, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

@Awesomemeeos: yes, it should. As soon as I have the time to check the module, I’ll look for the bug. [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 22:24, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
@Awesomemeeos: done! [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 13:18, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Misuse of l template[edit]

Please don't enclose an entire definition in the l-template. It's pointless and makes the code harder for humans to work with. Equinox 17:37, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

@Equinox: Okay, thanks for notifying. Sorry. ;) [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 17:43, 8 January 2017 (UTC)


"yuppismo", like virtually all Italian nouns, is grammatically countable. See the Italian Wiktionary entry and several real-world usages (the first few pages of Google hits are mentions in dictionaries). SemperBlotto (talk) 19:16, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

@SemperBlotto: OK, I simply didn’t consider its usage ad countable to be actual, as, for instance, francesismo. My bad. [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 19:48, 21 January 2017 (UTC)


Hi IvanScrooge98, I wonder if we could create this Lithuanian template & module? It'll be really interesting, as Lithuanian has optional tone marks that have to be used in the module, i.e. Italija to Itãlija? – AWESOME meeos * (chōmtī hao /t͡ɕoːm˩˧.tiː˩˧ haw˦˥/) 09:43, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

@Awesomemeeos: well, you might not know I'm not able to create modules on my own, so I guess you'd better ask someone else to get it started; :D after which I'm absolutely willing to help out as much as I can (considering I have no knowledge at all of the phonology of Lithuanian). [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 16:29, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
@Awesomemeeos: I think this would be a cool idea and would love to help. I would like to get someone who actually knows a little bit more about Lithuanian phonology involved, however. —JohnC5 18:20, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
@JohnC5, IvanScrooge98 I will have a look at w:Lithuanian phonology and maybe we can (kindly) ask User:Benwing2 to write the code! – AWESOME meeos * (chōmtī hao /t͡ɕoːm˩˧.tiː˩˧ haw˦˥/) 20:07, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
@Awesomemeeos: Oh, I'd be happy to write the code. I'd just need help with the delineation between the phonetic and phonemic and whether we intend to have any dialectal variations. —JohnC5 23:15, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
Alright, I suggest that for the moment only the phonemic code be developed, we'd see later whether to include the phonetic one as well. BTW, I think it would be better at this point to go on this discussion at Module talk:lt-pron. [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 21:23, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Yiddish translations[edit]

Please make sure you use the standard Yiddish orthography given at Wiktionary:About Yiddish when adding Yiddish translations, so I don't have to clean up after you, like here and here. --WikiTiki89 21:29, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

@Wikitiki89: I'm definitely going to double check them since the next time! [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 21:37, 17 March 2017 (UTC)



Some stress marks in the Ukrainian words you made were wrong. Please make no guesses! --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 11:16, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

@Atitarev: thanks, I’d better double check the next time. ;) [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 11:19, 14 May 2017 (UTC)


FYI: Wiktionary:Votes/2016-07/Placing English definitions in def template or similar. --Dan Polansky (talk) 19:24, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

@Dan Polansky: thanks; I thought the fact it wasn't deleted after a while meant it could still be used in certain entries. [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 19:31, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
It's not forbidden. A failed vote should be treated as no more than a discussion. --WikiTiki89 19:36, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
Let alone a vote for “allowing automatic and semi-automatic edits to ensure that all definitions of English entries are within {{def}} or similarly named template.” — Ungoliant (falai) 19:39, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
It's not forbidden but since many people don't like it, they are free and likely to remove it, and it is now happening if you look at some of the entries where you added the template. The vote is evidence of where the consensus is for anyone who cares to have a look. --Dan Polansky (talk) 20:13, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
I read it all and it seems the template was opposed mainly due to technical reasons I'm not familiar with, but clearly not forbidden. So I think I am going to use it (since I personally find it useful), however I'm not going to oppose its deletion by other users until a definitive consensus on whether to allow or forbid it is reached. [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 12:31, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

from the bottom of one's heart‎[edit]

What are all those "undefined" things? SemperBlotto (talk) 18:59, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

@SemperBlotto: some error with the addition, I guess. I immediately fixed it. [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 19:02, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Please stop adding translations in languages you do not know[edit]

This is the second reminder - you ignored my request to you in the Beer Parlour last time and continue to add translations in Chinese and other languages you are not familiar with. Most of the Chinese translations you added after the previous message are still erroneous: for example diff (also wrong in Thai), diff, diff. I really hope you can take this seriously. Please fix the errors above yourself- if nobody had bothered to check your edits, these errors could persist for an indefinite period of time, and they are exactly the reason that people stop taking Wiktionary seriously. Wyang (talk) 14:20, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

@Wyang: like last time, your complaint is about the erroneousness of my additions. But on that occasion only one translation was actually wrong, while the others were correct and simply either lacked a regular transliteration or the simplified/traditional form, or were not linked to parts; in one word, I failed to add translations as it is standard for Chinese, but I wouldn't consider this an outright mistake, as long as I do not start creating entries for Chinese lemmas (which I will not) and translations are readable. That is why I kept adding them: they only needed a familiar editor to standardize them. Also consider that there must still be several actual entries (way different from being not-created-yet translations) which have been mistaken and not yet corrected on Wiktionary. Please do not interpret this as a complete indifference from my side, I actually want all translations to be right. [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 15:25, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
Now please check my edits. [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 15:43, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
As editors on Wiktionary, a large part of being conscientious involves being meticulous in our work and amenable to feedback, because this is not a playing ground – our inadvertent errors in any part of the work will often be taken as truth by visitors. Excuses such as “on that occasion only one translation was actually wrong”, “I wouldn't consider this an outright mistake” simply fail this conscientiousness criterion. Below is the effect of your edits:
Mandarin: 庫內奧, 库内奥 (Kùnèiyù) (at Cuneo)
Mandarin: 利沃諾 (Lìwònuò), 裡窩那, 里窝那 (Lǐwōnè) (at Livorno)
Mandarin: 蒙菲拉托 (Méngfēlātuō) (previously at Montferrat)
For speakers of Mandarin, the errors in these translations are glaringly obvious and could easily lead to straight dismissal of the credibility of the site, despite all the effort others put in maintaining the Chinese entries here. As someone who has been adding translations abundantly across many languages for many years, the mentality that I only “need a familiar editor to standardize them” later is frankly not acceptable. Wyang (talk) 22:16, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
Your arguments are absolutely unbelievable. The fact you can make them with a straight face and no shame whatsoever is appalling. It's like telling a police officer "I'm always very careful to make sure my car is pointed in the right direction before I take a nap, and besides, I've only killed this one pedestrian- please accept my sincerest apology." When you're editing in a language you don't know, you're driving blind. Your source may be correct 9 times out of 10, but when it isn't, you have no way to know you're headed off a cliff. And regarding your source: let me be absolutely clear: neither Wikipedia nor Wiktionary in any language is an acceptable source according to our Criteria for inclusion, and faults in those sources are no excuse, since you're not supposed to be using them in the first place. Please think about why you've been blocked, and if you don't stop the behavior that got you blocked, don't be surprised if you get blocked again. Chuck Entz (talk) 00:27, 10 September 2017 (UTC)


I keep getting error messages when trying to reply.

Where is it going wrong exactly in the module? Can you show me an example where it goes wrong? —Rua (mew) 16:15, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

@CodeCat: I do not exactly know where the mistake is in the module, but when replacing the old template and previewing the new one on pages like Olanda or Paesi Bassi the head is just completely missing for some reason.
The other problem is there should be a way to make the parameter g an alternative for 1, as certain pages (e.g. Giovanni) retain it from the old template. [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 16:27, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
g= is already an alternative for 1= I think. And the problem with everything being missing is fixed. —Rua (mew) 16:35, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
@CodeCat: thank you so much! … Well, previews show error messages according to which “the parameter ‘g’ is not used by this template”. [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 16:43, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
Could you fix them to use the new name then? —Rua (mew) 16:49, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
@CodeCat: I can’t. I mean, there must be countless pages using that parameter. ;D
How can I fix the module? [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 16:57, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
I can fix them all by bot rather quickly. —Rua (mew) 16:58, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
Could you? Endless thanks!!! [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 17:00, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
The bot is running. You can make the change in the meantime. Some errors will show up, but the bot will get to them. —Rua (mew) 17:06, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
@CodeCat: still, seems categorization for pluralia tantum is not working. [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 17:27, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
Where? —Rua (mew) 17:30, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
Never mind, I think it's fixed now. —Rua (mew) 17:34, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
There's a bunch of entries showing up with errors now. My bot only handled entries with m, f, m-p or f-p as the gender, so that any aberrations would show up as errors, and now they are. It seems a lot of them are cases where the gender is just p, so without an actual gender specified. I don't know Italian, so I can't fill these in. Can you? —Rua (mew) 22:10, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
@CodeCat: if I find any, of course. Can you give me some examples? [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 09:13, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
@CodeCat: or maybe we could implement the module so that pl both categorizes and shows up as ? pl. [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 09:17, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
@CodeCat: seems to be fine with my last edit. [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 10:09, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
They're in Category:Pages with module errors. —Rua (mew) 10:16, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
No idea then. [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 10:22, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

@CodeCat: by the way, I have found errors on pages using f or m as a parameter, which would need this on the module:

if args["f"] then table.insert(data.inflections, {label = "feminine", args["f"]}) end

if args["m"] then table.insert(data.inflections, {label = "masculine", args["m"]}) end As for common nouns. I tried to add it but my editor makes it hard for me. Can you? [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 10:39, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

The original template never had these parameters, though. Do they need to be added? —Rua (mew) 10:42, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
@CodeCat: well, either this or removing them from the pages. But I think it may be useful. [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 10:46, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
@CodeCat: okay, I did it. Now everything should be fine. [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 11:46, 18 September 2017 (UTC)