Wiktionary:Grease pit/2015/July

discussion rooms: Tea room • Etym. scr. • Info desk • Beer parlour • Grease pit ← June 2015 · July 2015 · August 2015 → · (current)

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Kott (Yeniseian) conjugation table(s)

Hi, I added a conjugation table to at least two Kott language articles a while ago, and now I'm wondering how to replace my wikitext (a raw table) with one or more conjugation templates for the Kott language. Jackwolfroven (talk) 20:05, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

I've created {{zko-conj}} and replaced the raw table on afu-ākŋ with the template. Is this what you meant? DTLHS (talk) 20:19, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, thanks. If I get more information about the language (for example if I learn of regular conjugation classes), may I edit the template? Jackwolfroven (talk) 20:48, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Of course. DTLHS (talk) 20:50, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Lua error in {{inflection of}} - "pos" is not used

The {{inflection of}} template no longer accepts the pos parameter: "Lua error in Module:parameters at line 85: The parameter "pos" is not used by this template." See azokhoz. How can I find all Hungarian entries with this error? I'd like to correct them. Thanks. --Panda10 (talk) 17:08, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Just wait for the errors to appear. —CodeCat 17:17, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I have no idea where and when they will appear. Which entries? Could you create a category to track it? All Hungarian words that use the {{inflection of}} template and have the pos= parameter. --Panda10 (talk) 17:23, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Yes, the errors are tracked at Category:Pages with module errors. —CodeCat 17:29, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. --Panda10 (talk) 17:57, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Adding gmy to override_translit in Module:links?

Anyone OK with or objecting to adding gmy (Mycenaean Greek) to the list of languages where we override the manual translit? I encountered this issue when writing code to remove unnecessary translits. In particular, {{grc-alt}} when passed the parameter |dial=muk passes the resulting translit parameter to {{head|gmy}} instead of {{head|grc}}. Now, grc is in the override list but gmy isn't, so I have to special-case this template. I don't see why there would be any exceptional transliterations required for Linear B. Benwing (talk) 08:46, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

I have added gmy to the list of languages where we override the manual transliteration, but we can wait a little more to see if anyone objects. --Vahag (talk) 10:22, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Add to the ranges of Arabic characters in Module:scripts/data

In Module:scripts/data, the list of characters for Arabic (characters under m["Arab"]) is this monstrosity:

"؀-ۿݐ-ݿﭐ-﷽ﹰ-ﻼ"

This is hard to understand but if you paste it into Python you get

u'\u0600-\u06ff\u0750-\u077f\ufb50-\ufdfd\ufe70-\ufefc'

This is missing the range 08A0-08FF, which is "Arabic Extended A". So a better string might be

"؀-ۿݐ-ݿ-ࣿﭐ-﷽ﹰ-ﻼ"

You can paste this into Python and you get

u'\u0600-\u06ff\u0750-\u077f\ue8a0-\u08ff\ufb50-\ufdfd\ufe70-\ufefc'

which is correct. Can someone update this entry?

Thanks. Benwing (talk) 13:01, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

(NB, if the display looks weird of the second string, and it seems the chars from the first string have gotten jumbled in some strange way, it's because your browser doesn't recognize Arabic Extended A as R2L characters yet.) Benwing (talk) 13:02, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

There is a mistake in your text. U+E8A0 should probably be U+08A0. I also think we should stop maintaining separate scripts, such as fa-Arab, for other Arabic-script languages. --WikiTiki89 13:10, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

I also realize that mistake originates in the official Unicode chart itself and not from you. The correct text is "؀-ۿݐ-ݿࢠ-ࣿﭐ-﷽ﹰ-ﻼ", which I have just added to the module. --WikiTiki89 13:25, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Didn't notice that mistake, but it's staring right at me now, d'oh ... Benwing (talk) 14:38, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

I agree about the separate scripts like fa-Arab; I don't see the point of them. Benwing (talk) 14:40, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

There are twelve different sub-varieties of the script code Arab. I understand that not every font that supports Arabic-language Arabic script is optimized for, say, Persian-language Arabic script, but is it really the case that all twelve varieties use such different letters that they need different fonts? (Are there any other issues, like different transliterations?) It would seem like we could combine at least some of the sub-varieties. - -sche (discuss) 00:49, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Transliterations are irrelevant because they are handled by language, not by script. The difference is that each of these subvarieties has its own special characters that may not be supported by fonts designed for a different Arabic-script language. But nowadays most fonts do support all of these languages. The other thing is that some languages prefer to write certain characters in slightly different ways. But we don't worry about this in Cyrillic, for example, where the б in Serbian is sometimes displayed differently from the б in Russian, but we still use the same script tag for them (in fact, some fonts will handle these differences automatically if the language is properly tagged). If you take the Latin script as an example, there are tons of languages that use vastly different sets of special characters with different capitalization rules (such as for the ı in Turkic languages) and other quirks, yet they all use the same script tag (although we do have Latnx and Cyrs for certain dead Latin- and Cyrillic-script languages because they are less likely to be supported by mainstream fonts). --WikiTiki89 15:34, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Can we not just write the CSS in a way that it special-cases on the language as well as the script? In MediaWiki:Common.css there are examples like

:lang(vi).Hani { 
   ...
}

and

.Latn[lang=ja],
.Latn[lang=ko],
.Latn[lang=zh] {
	font-family: inherit;
}

Benwing (talk) 08:07, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

I've been told that this is not portable to IE 6 or IE 7. See Wiktionary:Grease pit/2013/November#Language-specific CSS at MediaWiki:Common.css. --WikiTiki89 17:13, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Mistakes in Ancient Greek templates

I can't figure out who is responsible for maintaining the Ancient Greek entries, but I found a number of mistakes in the template calls, where Greek text occurs in the transliteration field that I would otherwise remove. In general these are cases that should go into the sort field that follows the obsoleted translit field, although maybe the sort field is also unnecessary.

Page 8956 αἰώνιος: WARNING: Value 3=αἰωνιος has non-Western chars in it, not removing: {{grc-adj-1&2|αἰώνια|αἰώνιον|tr=aiōnios|αἰωνιος}}
Page 9200 θύννος: WARNING: Value 4=θυννος has non-Western chars in it, not removing: {{grc-noun|θύννου|m|second|θυννος|tr=thunnos}}
Page 9871 χόδανος: WARNING: Value 4=χοδανοσ has non-Western chars in it, not removing: {{grc-noun|head=χόδᾰνος|χοδάνου|m|second|χοδανοσ}}
Page 11618 σταφυλή: WARNING: Value 4=σταφυλη has non-Western chars in it, not removing: {{grc-noun|σταφυλῆς|f|first|σταφυλη|tr=stafulē|cat1=Fruits}}
Page 254 αἰώνιος: WARNING: Value 3=αἰωνιος has non-Western chars in it, not removing: {{grc-adj-1&2|αἰώνια|αἰώνιον|tr=aiōnios|αἰωνιος}}
Page 2089 ζεῦγμα: WARNING: Value 4=ζευγμα has non-Western chars in it, not removing: {{grc-noun|ζεύγματος|n|third|ζευγμα}}
Page 2360 θύννος: WARNING: Value 4=θυννος has non-Western chars in it, not removing: {{grc-noun|θύννου|m|second|θυννος|tr=thunnos}}
Page 3494 μέδος: WARNING: Value 4=μεδος has non-Western chars in it, not removing: {{grc-noun|unknown|m|second|μεδος|cat1=Beverages}}
Page 4277 παρῳδία: WARNING: Value 4=παρωδια has non-Western chars in it, not removing: {{grc-noun|παρῳδίας|f|first|παρωδια}}
Page 4688 πτερωτός: WARNING: Value 3=πτερωτος has non-Western chars in it, not removing: {{grc-adj-1&2|πτερωτή|πτερωτόν|tr=pterōtos|πτερωτος}}
Page 5088 σταφυλή: WARNING: Value 4=σταφυλη has non-Western chars in it, not removing: {{grc-noun|σταφυλῆς|f|first|σταφυλη|tr=stafulē|cat1=Fruits}}
Page 5873 χαραδριός: WARNING: Value 4=χαραδριος has non-Western chars in it, not removing: {{grc-noun|χαραδριοῦ|m|second|χαραδριος|cat1=Birds|tr=kharadrios}}
Page 5906 Χέοψ: WARNING: Value 4=Κheops has non-Western chars in it, not removing: {{grc-proper noun|Χέοπος|m|third|Κheops}}
Page 5935 χόδανος: WARNING: Value 4=χοδανοσ has non-Western chars in it, not removing: {{grc-noun|head=χόδᾰνος|χοδάνου|m|second|χοδανοσ}}

Benwing (talk) 03:06, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Fixed. All but one of them were mine, mostly dating back to when I was still learning how to use the templates. At μέδος (médos), I wish I could get it to say that the genitive is unknown, rather than indeclinable (It looks like it should be a straightforward second-declension noun, though). My workaround must have worked when I did it, but the template has changed completely since then. As for the sort field: it is unnecessary, though there may be an exception or two I don't know about. Chuck Entz (talk) 06:12, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Template:el-p

This junky template still makes use of manual translit rather than auto-transliterating the Greek text. If someone (e.g. CodeCat) wants to fix this up, please be my guest. Benwing (talk) 03:10, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

please make changes to Module:languages/data3/x for Andalusian Arabic

m["xaa"] = {
	canonicalName = "Andalusian Arabic",
	otherNames = {"Andalusi Arabic", "Moorish Arabic", "Spanish Arabic"},
	type = "regular",
	scripts = {"Arab"},
	family = "sem-arb",
	entry_name = {
		from = {u(0x0671), u(0x064B), u(0x064C), u(0x064D), u(0x064E), u(0x064F), u(0x0650), u(0x0651), u(0x0652), u(0x0670), u(0x0640)},
		to   = {u(0x0627)}},
}

Thanks. Benwing (talk) 10:59, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

@Benwing  Done. Keep up the good work. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 11:17, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

We should just make Benwing an admin... - -sche (discuss) 00:52, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Yes, totally. Sorry for not getting around to nominate him. He is a great asset to Wiktionary, not just as an editor but as an admin, I'm sure. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:15, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Not that I have any reason to distrust Benwing in particular, but I think this project has enough admins, actually. — Keφr 18:16, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

I don't need admin privileges but I'd like to be able to edit certain module pages that are currently locked, without having to bug others to do it. CodeCat in particular has not been very responsive recently to requests I've made. Benwing (talk) 07:52, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

abusefilter-warning-ref-no-references getting triggered incorrectly?

My bot is getting an error on Thule:

ERROR: editpage: abusefilter-warning-ref-no-references
Hit AbuseFilter: ref no references, 
WARNING: Page [[Thule]] not saved
Page 25 Thule: Error

I tried a manual save and I don't hit the abuse filter. The page does have <ref> without <references/> but instead it has {{reflist}}, which seems to do the same thing. This suggests something is wrong with the filter. Benwing (talk) 23:32, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Some Wikipedian used a Wikipedia template when they should have just used <references/>... - -sche (discuss) 00:54, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

I remember deleting that template, back when it did something else. Since it is pointless and causes problems like this, I think it should be speedied and salted. Or replaced with something along the lines of "Just use <references/> directly, you idiot", following {{helpme}}. — Keφr 18:18, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

{{head}} doesn't pay attention to override_translit

Why not? There are a couple of cases, in particular in Ͷ and ͷ where it potentially might make sense to allow overridden translits of Ancient Greek, but in general it seems really hacky to have {{head}} allow overriding langs with override_translit -- it goes against the whole purpose of override_translit and makes it risky to remove manual translits in {{head}}. In these two cases a better idea would be to use |tr=- and manually write the translit afterwards. Benwing (talk) 23:43, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Wouldn't this issue affect not just Ͷ and ͷ, but any words spelled with them? I presume such words are attested. Or do we have a policy of "normalizing" the spelling/encoding of words which contain such allographs the way we normalize words from old books that have long s, superscript-e-umlauts, c-t ligatures and some other things? - -sche (discuss) 00:58, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

But, to follow up on this thought, then any links to such words would be affected as much as the entries' {{head}}s, so the solution would be to turn off the overriding of manual transliteration for Greek (iff we don't have a better way of handling entries with Ͷ and ͷ). {{head}} should override manual transliterations to the same extent as other templates. - -sche (discuss) 15:45, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

I strongly agree that {{head}} should override manual translit for languages in override_translit. --Vahag (talk) 09:56, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

I don't think there are any words that have Ͷ or ͷ in them. I'm not sure if it makes sense to turn off override_translit for Ancient Greek just to handle these particular cases. Benwing (talk) 07:58, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Well override_translit is just a workaround to make sure all transliterations are standardized before we remove all the manual ones. Once we remove all the manual transliterations, we can remove override_translit and then be able to use manual transliterations for exceptional cases. --WikiTiki89 17:15, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

I have a bot to remove the translits but haven't finished, partly because there's an issue with long ā ī ū existing in the translit but not in the Ancient Greek itself, when the underlying vowel is long. My partial run already removed many such cases but I'm thinking of putting them back. There is a list of such cases in my user space; see the comments in my talk page under the entry for Ͷ/ͷ. Ideally the Greek should be canonicalized to include the long marks, based on the translit. There are two ways to do this: Either insert the Greek text with macrons as "alternate display" text or (IMO better and will make a lot of things a lot easier) insert it as the normal text and remove the macrons using a filter, just like we do for Latin. What do you think of implementing such a filter? Benwing (talk) 09:01, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

OK, looks like this is already implemented. Benwing (talk) 10:57, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Category:Pages with broken file links

There are about 200 Chinese character entries in this category. In many cases (e.g. 匽), the issue seems to be that {{Han etyl}} expects several pictures and not all of them exist. Can someone adapt the template so users can specify that it shouldn't attempt to display certain pictures (because they don't exist)? In other entries, e.g. 血液循環, the issue is that someone has specified ma=y or the like to tell {{zh-pron}} to display an audio file, but no audio file exists. - -sche (discuss) 01:23, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

@Tooironic, "|ma=y" means an audio file, e.g. Zh-xuěyè xúnhuán.ogg exists but it doesn't. :) --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:53, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

If those {{Han etyl}} images were hosted in Wiktionary {{#ifexist}} could work. But it seems that {{#ifexist}} does not work with Commons files. :( —suzukaze (t・c) 02:07, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Just ignore that brain fart. ---> Tooironic (talk) 03:59, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

{{#ifexist:}} works with the Media: namespace, by the way. — Keφr 08:18, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Template:sk-noun

When the parameter "decl" is used in the {{Template:sk-noun}}, the template does not close the brackets at the end. See e. g. chlór#Slovak. Could somebody fix it, please? Thanks very much. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 17:55, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

I updated it to use more features of {{head}}, which also fixed the problem. --WikiTiki89 18:28, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! --Jan Kameníček (talk) 18:30, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Indentation width on module pages

I thought we made module pages display indentations with a width of four spaces. Now, it seems to have switched back to eight. (See any module page for an example, but for convenience, I will link Module:en-headword.) --WikiTiki89 21:19, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

In case it's just me, I'm using the latest version of Google Chrome (43.0.2357.132) on Windows 7. Also, the tab-size properties in MediaWiki:Common.css are still set to 4. --WikiTiki89 21:24, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

This should be changed, but I think we should also try to make the syntax highlighting match between the view page and the edit page. —CodeCat 21:35, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

I don't see this and I'm using exactly the same version of Chrome on Mac OS X 10.9. Benwing (talk) 05:35, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Either Kephir fixed it here, or it randomly started working again today. --WikiTiki89 17:18, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Yes. — Keφr 20:02, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Issues with Template:der3

This unpleasant template has display issues, that I've seen a few times:

1. It does not allow a collapsible box header, but simply plops a duplicate "Derived terms" below the "Derived terms" header that is already present.

2. It incorrectly displays some terms. Look at orange#Derived_terms, where "satsuma" orange displays as "atsuma orange", "sour orange" as "our orange", and "sweet orange" as "weet orange".

If this template were gone, I wouldn't miss it even a little bit. -- · (talk) 04:43, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

1, yes it does, read the documentation, 2 is fixed. DTLHS (talk) 04:48, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

It is a very useful template. I would miss it a lot if it were gone. @DTLHS, was transliteration disabled at some point? --Vahag (talk) 22:02, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I have added them back. DTLHS (talk) 22:13, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Red links/black links

How do I make a link appear like normal black text unless it links to a page that exists, then display it normally? Like it is in conjugation boxes? I wanted to do it here. WurdSnatcher (talk) 14:44, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Use class="inflection-table". For example: lolol, kjgkhvyf. — Ungoliant ^(falai) 14:50, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Awesome, thank you! WurdSnatcher (talk) 14:57, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Although that will make the CSS class name rather non-indicative... what are you trying to do anyway? — Keφr 14:59, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

I wanted to make a glossary format like this, which has links to citations pages for all of the words. That way the list can be expanded and new citations added to the citations page, and when there are enough to make a page for it, the link will be there automatically. WurdSnatcher (talk) 15:04, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Broken link in Appendix:Unicode/Basic Latin

Please someone fix the broken link in Appendix:Unicode/Basic Latin:
"U+002F" (SOLIDUS) should link to / but links to Appendix:Unicode/Basic Latin/.
When you type [[/]]] it links to the current page+slash, so I believe the actual link should be [[&#47;]], but I'm not very good at editing Lua yet to do the change in Module:character list myself. Thanks. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 18:59, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

[[:/]] also works; I used that. Thanks. — Keφr 19:07, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Ruby print should be closer to kanji characters, although this is not a problem in mobile view

Ruby print should be closer to kanji, although this is not a problem in mobile view. This is especially the case with larger fonts and I wish this could be fixed. I would think this would be an easy fix since the spacing between ruby print and kanji is perfect for both large and small font sizes when viewing the mobile version of pages. For a good example of this, please see Appendix:Gikun_Usage_in_Meiji_Version_of_Japanese_Bible and then compare it with the mobile version of the page. This does not appear to be a browser related issue. 馬太阿房 (talk) 21:52, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

I wonder whether this might be a font-related issue. When I look at the ruby print in Appendix:Gikun Usage in Meiji Version of Japanese Bible, it looks fine to me. —Stephen ^(Talk) 23:53, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Did you compare with mobile view? 馬太阿房 (talk) 04:48, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

No. I don’t have a mobile device. —Stephen ^(Talk) 10:30, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

This is what I see on my laptop and iPad - look pretty much the same. Keith the Koala (talk) 11:41, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

• 
• 

That’s how mine looks (laptop). —Stephen ^(Talk) 11:54, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the screenshots. I see you are using Firefox with “gothic” font on your laptop and similar font on ipad. It does appear to be a font issues after all. I agree that the spacing between Kanji and ruby print doesn't look bad on your laptop. What is the name of the font your Firefox browser is using? I've tried different fonts with my Chrome browser and even the gothic ones have lots of space between Kanji and ruby. IE seems to have the same issue. 馬太阿房 (talk) 07:59, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

Oldest and newest requests to categories

Can someone please add oldest and newest request (10 each) to {{poscatboiler}}, similar to {{trreqcatboiler}}? I tried but didn't succeed.

Reason: I want to track definitionless entries, e.g. in Category:Korean entries needing definition I want to see the newest and the oldest ones. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 03:36, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

"plural of" template

This template has been altered to read "plural of" instead of "plural form of". I have been using it for the plural form of Norwegian adjectives - there is no template for "plural form of" however. So what's the solution - "form of|plural form|-"? Admittedly a roundabout way of doing it, or can a new template be created? Donnanz (talk) 09:50, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Just use {{plural of}}? —CodeCat 18:18, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

No, that won't do - I'm talking about plural forms of adjectives, not the plural of nouns. There's a difference. Donnanz (talk) 20:00, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Why won't it do? I don't see the problem, we use {{plural of}} for adjectives all over the place. —CodeCat 20:03, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Obviously I'm not going to convince you. I'll have to resort to using the roundabout method. Donnanz (talk) 20:19, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Why do you have to be so contrary? Other editors have had this problem with you before; if things don't work your way, you look for all kinds of bad workarounds. —CodeCat 21:05, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Something was accomplished in that thread a year ago. As for being contrary, well, I like accurate descriptions, and the alteration to the template amounts to oversimplification in my opinion. Besides that, I have kept my head below the parapet for some months. I can't be criticised for that, can I? Donnanz (talk) 22:06, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

All that has happened is that {{plural of}} was made to display the same thing as {{inflection of|...||p}}. I can't think of a reason why they should show different things when they mean the same thing. —CodeCat 22:43, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Second opinion, anyone? Donnanz (talk) 23:13, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Even {{plural form of}} is redirected to {{plural of}}, so I can't win. That template is locked, so nobody can change it even if they want to. So "bad workarounds", even though I don't like them, are the only solution I'm afraid. Donnanz (talk) 13:24, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Or you could just use {{plural of}} like everyone else. —CodeCat 13:43, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

@Donnanz: Please explain why you think "plural of" doesn't make sense for adjectives. You can't expect people to take your side if you don't even explain yourself. --WikiTiki89 13:59, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

As I have already tried to explain above, that is what they are, plural forms of adjectives; {{plural of}} is adequate for simple noun plurals, as in English. This template cannot be used for Norwegian nouns, as there are indefinite and definite forms, so I use {{inflection of}} for those. I used to use that template for definite singular noun forms too, but found that {{definite of}} reading "definite singular of" works well for both those and the definite singular of adjectives (so please don't ever change the wording of that template!). Although thinking about it, definite singular forms and plural forms of adjectives could be merged into one template ("definite singular and plural form of") as they are invariably the same in both Norwegian and Danish, instead of putting them on two lines as at present. No problem with {{neuter singular of}} for the neuter form of adjectives. Adjectives which don't change form are easily catered for by simply adding "indeclinable". Donnanz (talk) 16:37, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

I don't understand your point. How is the meaning of "plural form of" different from "plural of"? --WikiTiki89 17:03, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Our definition of "plural", and that of Chambers, do not say "only applies to nouns". To talk of the plural of an adj is fine. Equinox ◑ 19:39, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Yes, to talk of the "plural of" an adjective is fine. (And I fail to see how "plural of" could possibly be problematic without the synonymous but longer "plural form of" being equally problematic.) Merriam-Webster agrees that "plural" can refer to more than just nouns (it has usexes of "plural noun" and "plural verb"), as does Dictionary.com (which makes reference to plural pronouns besides plural nouns), and Oxford Dictionaries (which makes reference to plural nouns, pronouns, and verbs). At Ngrams, "plural of the adjective" was more common than "plural form of the adjective" until about 15 years ago, and it's still about half as common. - -sche (discuss) 19:50, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Well, those stats show that I'm half-right, not completely wrong. Donnanz (talk) 08:30, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

No, they show that you are "completely wrong" about "plural of an adjective" being wrong, because if it were wrong, the ratio could not have possibly come even close to 1/2. --WikiTiki89 12:49, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

A predictable retort. Donnanz (talk) 14:43, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Svan entries

Hi. Is it better to include the combining characters such as "combining caron" (U+030C) and "combining dieresis" (U+0308) in the actual title of a Svan entry or should I put such characters only in the {{head}} template? Usage of combining characters are necessary because we do not have unicode Georgian letters with circumflex accents, diaereses or carons. On one hand, putting combining characters in the title of the page causes stuff like this, but on the other — there is no such word as ფაქუ in Svan (i.e., without a circumflex accent on უ) and needless to say უ =/= უ̂. What should I do here? Sorry if this is an extremely nooby question, but I have to ask this. --Simboyd (talk) 18:02, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

There's nothing wrong with using combining characters in page titles if the precomposed characters don't exist in Unicode (yet). The only time to leave diacritics out of page titles but include them in the headword line is if such diacritics aren't normally found in printed texts but are encountered only (or primarily) in pedagogical texts like dictionaries, grammar books, readers for children and language students. If Svan texts always include these diacritics, then they should be part of the page title. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 20:38, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

I completely agree and that is exactly what I tried to do for this word as well, but as you can see combining characters have glitches when applied on Georgian unicode characters. Should I just ignore this then? --Simboyd (talk) 20:58, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

From what I have seen, Svan uses უ, უ̄, უ̈, უ̄̈ (u, ū, ü, ṻ). The problem is not the diacritics, but whether the font was designed to include Svan text. Georgian font designers do not make provisions for these diacritics, since Georgian does not use them, but a font designer can easily adjust the font to display the diacritics correctly over Georgian letters. Therefore, you just need fonts that are intended for Svan, such as TITUS Cyberbit Basic. —Stephen ^(Talk) 23:24, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

We have the same problem with Armenian dialects. Until today I was stripping diacritics from the links and not including them in the page title, but now I think the diacritics should be included however ugly they look. The only problem is that searching for կյազար does not find կյա̈զա̈ր (kyäzär). Redirects are a solution, when there is no entry with an identical spelling. --Vahag (talk) 08:19, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Can anyone help fix {{ja-pron}}?

It seems that this template doesn't handle well some combinations of kana such as ウェ or ティ. Eg: サイバネティックス, スウェーデン, ノルウェー. ばかFumiko￥^talk 10:24, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Fixed: [1]. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 11:58, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Enabling page-specific CSS's

We have lots of nonmainspace pages that would benefit from styling: they can get prettier or even can load faster. For example, here each line could be 18 characters less and thus load faster.

Also, just above our homey needed exactly this - page-specific css. But instead he ended up using his own template.

Inflection table templates would be easier to style and read. One prominent example is Template:la-decl-adj-table-m+f+n that has three dedicated templates Latincolour1, Latincolour2, Latincolour3.

Also, if we allow this change we would be one step closer to the separation of presentation and markup.

So, I suggest that we enable Extension:CSS. --Dixtosa (talk) 12:51, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Weak support. I don't think it matters that much. --WikiTiki89 12:57, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

• It would make it possible to copy other wikiproject's templates. Notably, moving Wikipedia's Navbox here was a hard-work and, eventually, resulted in an unmaintainable template.--Dixtosa (talk) 13:22, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Errors in Ancient Greek or translit

My bot produced the following errors when trying to match up ("match-canonicalize") Ancient Greek and Latin, transferring macrons and breves from one to the other and then removing the manual transliteration if it's the same as the automatic one. (Note, these are all entries where the Latin translit has a macron over a, i or u.) Can one of the people working on Ancient Greek fix up these entries? Thanks.

Page 8 Amilcare: term.1: NOTE: Unable to match-canon Ἀμίλκας (Hamilkās): Unable to match Greek character Α at index 1, Latin character H at index 0: {{term|Ἀμίλκας|lang=grc|tr=Hamilkās}}
Page 22 Areopagite: term.1: NOTE: Unable to match-canon Ἀρεοπαγίtης (areiopagītēs): Unable to match Greek character ο at index 4, Latin character i at index 3: {{term|Ἀρεοπαγίtης|tr=areiopagītēs|lang=grc}}
Page 29 Dioscuri: term.1: NOTE: Unable to match-canon Διόσκουροι (Dióskūroi): Unable to match Greek character ο at index 6, Latin character u at index 6: {{term|Διόσκουροι||the youths of [[Zeus]]|tr=Dióskūroi|lang=grc}}
Page 60 Promm: m.2: NOTE: Unable to match-canon προῦμνον (prū́mnon): Unable to match Greek character ο at index 2, Latin character u at index 2: {{m|grc|προῦμνον|tr=prū́mnon}}
Page 87 areopagites: term.2: NOTE: Unable to match-canon ἀρειοπαγῑ́tης (areiopagītēs): Encountered non-Greek (?) character t at index 12: {{term|ἀρειοπαγίtης|ἀρειοπαγῑ́tης|tr=areiopagītēs|lang=grc}}
Page 94 beg the question: term.1: NOTE: Unable to match-canon τὸ ἐν ἀρχῇ αἰτεῖσθαι (to en archē aetīsthae): Unable to match Greek character ῃ at index 12, Latin character e at index 10: {{term|τὸ ἐν ἀρχῇ αἰτεῖσθαι|tr=to en archē aetīsthae||to assume from the beginning|lang=grc}}
Page 134 filatelie: term.1: NOTE: Unable to match-canon ἀτέλεια (atelīa): Unable to match Greek character ε at index 6, Latin character i at index 4: {{term|ἀτέλεια|lang=grc|tr=atelīa}}
Page 194 petitio principii: term.1: NOTE: Unable to match-canon τὸ ἐν ἀρχῇ αἰτεῖσθαι (to en archē aetīsthae): Unable to match Greek character ῃ at index 12, Latin character e at index 10: {{term|τὸ ἐν ἀρχῇ αἰτεῖσθαι|tr=to en archē aetīsthae||to assume from the beginning|lang=grc}}
Page 195 philately: term.1: NOTE: Unable to match-canon ἀτέλεια (atelīa): Unable to match Greek character ε at index 6, Latin character i at index 4: {{term|ἀτέλεια|lang=grc|tr=atelīa}}
Page 243 πῶυ: term.1: NOTE: Unable to match-canon पायु (pāyú): Encountered non-Greek (?) character प at index 0: {{term|sc=Deva|पायु|tr=pāyú||guard, protector|lang=grc}}
Page 310 ܡܛܪܐ: term.1: NOTE: Unable to match-canon μήρτα (mḗtrā): Unable to match Greek character ρ at index 3, Latin character t at index 4: {{term|μήρτα|tr=mḗtrā|lang=grc}}
Page 324 Ἀσία: grc-proper noun.page title: NOTE: Unable to match-canon Ἀσία (Asiā/Āsiā): Unable to match trailing Latin character / at index 5: {{grc-proper noun|Ἀσίας|f|first|Asiā/Āsiā}}
Page 411 μάτηρ: grc-noun.head: NOTE: Unable to match-canon μᾱ́τηρ (mātēr): Encountered non-Greek (?) character & at index 3: {{grc-noun|ματρός|f|third|mātēr|head=μᾱ́τηρ}}
Page 590 ἐκπίνω: grc-verb.page title: NOTE: Unable to match-canon ἐκπίνω (pī́nō): Unable to match Greek character ε at index 1, Latin character p at index 0: {{grc-verb|tr=pī́nō}}
Page 665 Κωκυτός: grc-noun.page title: NOTE: Unable to match-canon Κωκυτός (kōkūtos): Unable to match Greek character Κ at index 0, Latin character k at index 0: {{grc-noun|κωκυτοῦ|m|second|kōkūtos}}
Page 725 δράματα: head.head: NOTE: Unable to match-canon δρᾱ́μᾰτᾰ (''drāmata''): Unable to match Greek character δ at index 0, Latin character ' at index 0: {{head|grc|noun form|head=δρᾱ́μᾰτᾰ|tr=''drāmata''|g=n}}
Page 768 Ἀσιανός: grc-noun.page title: NOTE: Unable to match-canon Ἀσιανός (Asiānos/Āsiānos): Unable to match trailing Latin character / at index 8: {{grc-noun|Ἀσιανοῦ|m|second|Asiānos/Āsiānos}}
Page 809 Βρετανία: grc-proper noun.page title: NOTE: Unable to match-canon Βρετανία (Brettaniā): Unable to match Greek character α at index 4, Latin character t at index 4: {{grc-proper noun|Βρεττανίας|f|first|Brettaniā}}
Page 850 Μαικήνας: grc-proper noun.page title: NOTE: Unable to match-canon Μαικήνας (Malakās): Unable to match Greek character ι at index 2, Latin character l at index 2: {{grc-proper noun|Μαικήνα|m|first|Malakās}}
Page 853 Μεσσάλας: grc-proper noun.page title: NOTE: Unable to match-canon Μεσσάλας (Messalā): Unable to match trailing Greek character ς at index 8: {{grc-proper noun|Μεσσάλα|m|first|Messalā}}

Benwing (talk) 09:03, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

 Done —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 20:03, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

More Ancient Greek bot issues

Warnings about missing smooth-breathing signs. I've tried to remove all the ones that were bogus.

Page 11 Appendix:Proto-Germanic/anhulǭ: term.1: WARNING: Text αγκύλᾱ may be missing a smooth-breathing sign
Page 19 Appendix:Proto-Indo-European/stéh₂-: l.2: WARNING: Text έστᾱ may be missing a smooth-breathing sign
Page 78 Wiktionary:Requested entries (Ancient Greek): term.1: WARNING: Text Άρβανον may be missing a smooth-breathing sign
Page 78 Wiktionary:Requested entries (Ancient Greek): l.2: WARNING: Text Όσροηνῆ may be missing a smooth-breathing sign
Page 248 Ἠλί: lang.2: WARNING: Text Ηλι may be missing a smooth-breathing sign
Page 249 Ἡλί: lang.2: WARNING: Text Ηλι may be missing a smooth-breathing sign
Page 534 Τίρυνς: lang.2: WARNING: Text Ᾰ Ε Ῐ Ο Ῠ may be missing a smooth-breathing sign
Page 534 Τίρυνς: lang.2: WARNING: Text Ᾱ ΕΙ Ῑ ΟΥ Ῡ may be missing a smooth-breathing sign
Page 669 Λαέρτης: term.1: WARNING: Text ειρειν may be missing a smooth-breathing sign
Page 1188 ἐπιχαιρεκακία: lang.2: WARNING: Text [[w:Aristotle|Αριστοτέλης]], ''[[w:Nicomachean Ethics|Ηθικά Νικομάχεια]]'' may be missing a smooth-breathing sign
Page 1188 ἐπιχαιρεκακία: lang.2: WARNING: Text [[w:Aristotle|Αριστοτέλης]], ''[[w:Nicomachean Ethics|Ηθικά Νικομάχεια]]'' may be missing a smooth-breathing sign

Benwing (talk) 09:16, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

•  Done except for the ones at Τίρυνς (Tíruns), which I consider a false positive. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 20:30, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

Greek editors, please check the 09:38 Jul 15 changes for User:WingerBot

@Chuck Entz, I'm so meta even this acronym, ObsequiousNewt, JohnC5, Saltmarsh I ran about 10 entries for my bot to transfer macrons from Latin to Greek. They are dated 09:38, July 15 2015, currently the latest entries. I'm pretty sure they are done correctly but I'd like some of you to give them a once-over just to make sure before I fix all the rest. Thanks. Benwing (talk) 09:47, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

They look right. It could be nice to also modify the genitive for {{grc-noun}} and {{grc-proper noun}} but I can understand that being difficult to code in. —ObsequiousNewt (εἴρηκα|πεποίηκα) 16:21, 15 July 2015 (UTC)