User talk:Dvortygirl/October-2006

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Phrase book[edit]

Hi Dvortygirl,

Could you have a peek at my phrase book entries and say what you think of them? I have also recorded some of those phrases in Dutch, so now people can listen to them, like in My name is ... It would be great that it would also be possible to listen to an English version and in other languages. Do you know people you could persuade to contribute their voice to Wiktionary? It might be quite a lot to ask from people, as it is a bit more involved than simply typing in text, of course. So maybe it's not such a great idea after all. But I would like to hear your opinion. Cheers Polyglot 11:24, 19 Jan 2004 (UTC)

off the hook[edit]

It's an Idiom. By the way, we don't pipe links over here normally. So I changed [[responsible|responsibility]] to responsibility. Cheers. SemperBlotto 08:03, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)


Hi there. The correct spelling is one-upmanship - see w:one-upmanship Cheers SemperBlotto 18:43, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Talk a blue streak[edit]

Heh - thanks! --Connel MacKenzie 21:44, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

About me[edit]

Hi there. Yes, I am a bit of a techie. If you are really that interested, you will find a picture, my real name, and a link to my homepage (with life story) over on w:User:Knaggs. Keep taking the tablets! SemperBlotto 07:56, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

have you seen?[edit]

I noticed you redirecting fervently to fervent, the convention of which we are presently discussing in the Beer Parlour. Thought you might like to weigh in on the subject. TheDaveRoss 06:22, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)


Hi Dvortygirl - I've just deleted your entry "surruptitious" as the word's spelled "surreptitious". Just in case you're wondering where it went :) — Paul G 09:30, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Transwiki Log Proposal[edit]

I've noticed that you've done some work on transwikification. Would you please look at my proposal at Wiktionary talk:Transwiki log and weigh in. Kevin Rector 02:52, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)


Intransitive verb phrase[edit]

get someone's goat

Alternative forms[edit]

get somebody's goat

  1. Could you then create a redirect page for each of the alternative form(s) to the form you have created, which would look like this (without the "nowiki" tags):

#REDIRECT [[get someone's goat]]

Creating the redirect pages means that no one will come along and duplicate your work by creating a page for "get somebody's goat", which would rapidly get out of synch with "get someone's goat".

This will all help make Wiktionary easier to use and edit.

Thanks, and keep up the valuable work. — Paul G 08:50, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

On bits and bobs[edit]

Thanks for pointing out some obvious matter regarding the bits and bobs entry, and adding the {{idiom}} template every now and then, I will surely do that. I found you really really helpful. We have to create an idiomatic booklet of sorts, I believe, for it might attract some new visitors and hopefully new editors (maybe -in-chief).

P.S. (offtopic) Once I tried to force myself to learn up Dvorak's touch-typing, but figured that I couldn't manage it, since I was too used to the keyboard at hand, a qwerty one. I am no typist and I don't really need a speedy typing, but the whole situation with Dvorak's touch-typing is sad; and it is of interest how deep-rooted the qwerty ideology, and a matter of habit, is.

So long, and thanks for all the fish //h2g2 - maybe this one can pretend to be an idiomatic expression/saying? --Dennis Valeev 08:28, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Hi Dvortygirl,
Gosh, when you wrote “I have lately found inspiration in your idiom list” at first I didn’t quite get you and was shocked at the idea that I somewhat managed to contribute a list of idioms, but after awhile a thought crossed my mind that this was not the first time I was using Wiktionary and, what’s more important, contributing to the project and at that I calmed down.
As to sheding light on the origin of the idiom list, I don’t actually remember where I got the seemingly full (but not quite comprehensive) list of idiomatic expressions of English lan-guage, but I do remember that I edited a helluvalotta html pages downloaded from some obscure site where all these idioms were already explained and then waded through the con-catenation of those pages to then extract the list we have at Wiktionary. I still have this con-catenated list of idioms in the backwaters of my laptop, so if you really need it I can rum-mage through and fish it out.
As for my ability to type, I am pretty able to touch-type at speed of something like 400 cpm (characters per minute; or, in other words, 400/6=67 wpm (words per minute), speed of a slow speech?) both in English and Russian languages, and that’s why it is of great pain in the known place to try to compel myself to start touch-typing, sticking to the Dvorak’s keyboard layout.
Well, that’s the way the cookie crumbles. --Dennis Valeev 19:35, 12 May 2005 (UTC)


Good to know people are checking me out! My apologies for the stubs -- it's just, for me, pronunciation and etymology is vital in any decent dictionary/thesaurus, and doubly so on Wiktionary, which looks to combine the two through this beautiful invention called the Internet.

Most of my entries are culled from my collection of "rare-word dictionaries," all of which have strict criteria to meet before an entry makes its way into their pages. For a laugh, check out the talk page in the entry for mofo.

I will definitely check out the IRC channel asap. Thanks again for dropping a line! Bennmorland 03:29, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

On Help[edit]

Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps you can help me in pursuing the etymology of the words I've already plopped down on Wiktionary? I noticed you inserted the actual Greek words in the etymology for necrophile -- perhaps you can aid me on some other words in my list? Thanks! Bennmorland 00:47, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

Etymological help needed in Greek[edit]

Dvortygirl! I call upon thee to aid me in my endeavor to complete the entry fof heliocentrism. An editor made the fully justified edit to remove helios in the Roman alphabet and demand it to be entered in the Greek alphabet. I feel certain that even half-fluency in Greek, ancient or modern, would supply a student and/or speaker with the knowledge of the word helios. Help? Sincerely and ever-gratefully Bennmorland 12:33, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

Sweet! Thank you, darlin'! Or, as they say in The Netherlands, dankjewel, schatje! Bennmorland 14:25, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

Idiom Compendium[edit]

Considering your concern over idiomatic expressions, I want to say that I have serendipitously stumbled upon a great site with a huge collection of idioms, encompassing various themes. Here it goes: Hope this will be of help. --Dennis Valeev 22:32, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

feature creep and creeping elegance[edit]

Hi there. Do you think that one of these should just be a redirect to the other? (I don't normally look at your edits 'cause I know they are going to be good - but I didn't know what this was (or psycrometric)). Cheers SemperBlotto 14:54, 19 May 2005 (UTC)


Interesting entry. I think the more usual form is "kerching", though - at least, that's the form I'm most familiar with. I've never seen "cha-ching". That said, "cha-ching" has 84,900 hits on Google, while "kerching" has 15,100.

Does "cha-ching" have a particular meaning that "kerching" does not? — Paul G 09:44, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

that's what it comes down to[edit]

Could you please create an entry on this matter, I am completely at a loss to find out where this phrase originates from. Thanks in advance. Dennis Valeev 10:05, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Oh my! Am I really so bad? *sobs* Dennis Valeev 20:00, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)


Well done on finding extra meanings. I suppose the adjective will need its own pronunciation section if the "b" isn't voiced. Good luck with the formatting if you attempt it! SemperBlotto 22:06, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Futile efforts to apologize, on the face of it[edit]

Never was I so happy as I am now, when there're lots of people who can literally kick your lazy bottom so as to make you polish up your English skills even more harder than you used to, making your head throb, and mind going a little bit quirky. But you have no idea how I wish being taught by you, for you have a certain gift to teach, yet there's no one around me to point out what exactly I tend to abuse in English language. But hey! I have been studying English language for only 4 years now, from scratch and on my own, this, I contend, is not a very long time and quite a hard row to hoe, after all. 4 years... Gosh, I can't believe my own eyes; a child of this age is only able to produce a confined number of words and phrases, not quite grasping adults' speech. I, at the same time, have read an order of magnitude more books in English than I ever did in Russian, this is wonderful!

So, the point is that not only don't you need to hold your tongue behind your teeth, but, quite contrarily, you might every so often stick it out at me, whenever you please to do so. :)

If you have spare time you might want to visit my diary (blog), which is located at Not that I frequently write there, but sometimes I need badly someone to talk to, feel free to comment on it. Dennis Valeev 23:13, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)


I'm pretty sure that your definition was actually wrong! But please add it again if you are sure. Cheers. SemperBlotto 07:41, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

You're welcome. I don't seem to have whatever you need to do IRC and anyway, I like to have a think before talking. And, of course, Wiki is like sex - you can either talk about it, or do it! (or at my age, do something else more useful!)

By the way, I see that you have an interest in sign language. Have you any idea how "all words in all languages" could cover that? Keep up the good work. Jeff. SemperBlotto 17:12, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I added a note on how the word is commonly misconstrued. --Bennmorland 00:46, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)


Hi, I just noticed that the audio pronunciation you added to murmur links to the pronunciation of admit (?). 24 00:37, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Fixed it, thanks. I'm pasting in from a template. A wonder it doesn't happen more often. --Dvortygirl 00:45, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Category:Etymology stub[edit]

Dvortygirl, if you feel the urge to help out in the etymology department, please do so by going to the above category. Or, you can hit me with a pizzle. -- Bennmorland 00:45, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome[edit]

As I said to you on IRC, it's great to actually be welcome somewhere, so I really appreciate it. Really, for the moment I'm just fixing up bits of grammar and punctuation I find around the traps. I'll try to get some definitions going soon.

There's so much reading involved in being a Wiktionarian. Who knew?

Jonny 00:57, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)


Out of the recent nominations for sysop you seem to have the greatest popular support. After reviewing your recent efforts (and noting that you don't get into a lot of arguments :-)) I think that you will be great as an admin. Welcome. Eclecticology 04:08, 2005 Jun 13 (UTC)

<Jun-Dai 21:37, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)> Thank you and likewise. I guess I got it in spite of the arguments.  :) Ah well, I like to think of myself of pushing other people to think about why they want the things that they want. Or just being pushy. In any case, you were as shoe-in for the position if ever there was one. I shall myself endeavor to use the new buttons for the forces of good. </Jun-Dai>

linking to wikipedia images[edit]

Is it possible to link to a wikipedia image, without having to upload it to wikitionary? I've tried doing it as an external link, but you don't see the image, you just see a link.--Whicky1978 22:38, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Images again[edit]

I have a jpeg pic of me in the creative commons, should I be able to use on wikitionary without uploading it again?

Dvorty's away right now, so I'll field this. That's on wikipedia, I can't find it on commons. Creative commons isn't commons, you see. You want, not a CC license. Upload it there, then link to it from a page here by using a regular image link. So, for example, I would link to the current picture of the day with [[Image:Compass in a wooden frame.jpg]], which gives us:
ImageNA.svg (I've constrained the size so it fits on here).
This allows images to be used by more than one project and so on. Cheers, Wytukaze 01:48, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

New Category: Education[edit]

I've created a new category, education. What do we do now?Whicky1978 14:46, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)


I've done that once before, how do I create subcategories? For example, education could be divided into preschool, elementary/primary school, middle/junior high, high school/secondary, and college/postsecondary--Whicky1978 04:56, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Vocabulary differences[edit]

I am familiar with many of the differences in British and American educational terms. However, If I thought it would be best to keep it simple. Rather than have catagories like "Primary (elementry/grammar)" school or hig school/secondary school. In the United States, college is generic for both University and non University schools. However, I have created a postsecondary category which includes the whole range. In American terms, a Unviersity is any institution with more than one college or campus, rather than having to do with the number of years. Anyways, the subcategories I've made, have not appeared under Education.--Whicky1978 00:13, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)


Sorry for the mispelled entry. I've recently creaated a better user page - you can go there if you want to see what I'm doing on Wiktionary. Stevey7788 20:41, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)


Please delete user:24. Thank you. 24 20:51, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

  • Done. Should you change your mind, we have a short window in which your page can be restored. --Dvortygirl 22:13, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    Thanks. 24 22:51, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I see that you deleted the history for 24. I had been resisting it because he seems prone to erratic behaviour. Sometimes he makes good edits, but at other times he does things (like archiving everybody else's entire talk pages) which defy explanation. I tend to watch what he does more closely than others. (Eclecticology)
Thanks for the compliment. It's words like those that compel me to stay at Wiktionary. 24 19:05, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Greetings from a Newbie[edit]

Thank you, Dvortygirl, for giving me a warm welcome to Wiktionary. I appreciated the links (big help!), and I apologize for waiting so long. I haven't been here for a little bit because of my schedule, and I was lost looking for how to post this message (luckily, I found the way). Again, thank you, Dvortygirl! End of line.

    -SnoopY 02:21, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)


Hehe - I think u set a new AP record. Near-on instantaneous action to block pelican shit vandal! --Expurgator t(c) 21:44, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)


Can you delete user talk:Connel MacKenzie and then move User talk:Buffalo shit there? 24 20:51, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Wiktionarian of the month[edit]

I'm trying out a new side-project, wi:wotm, and i reckoned you were my WOTM for june. --Expurgator t(c) 16:36, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)


I think you may have misplaced Zachol's welcome message. 24 22:10, 9 July 2005 (UTC)

Ah, I never thought of just moving it. Sorry. 24 22:18, 9 July 2005 (UTC)
No sweat. Thanks again for keeping after me. I think it's time for me to a break. --Dvortygirl 22:22, 9 July 2005 (UTC)


Thought you'd be interested to take a gander at self-descriptive. Its a word that kinda haunts me, cos of my curious nature and logical education. Would anti-self-descriptive be an anti-self-descriptive word? --Expurgator t(c) 11:59, 12 July 2005 (UTC)


Your entry go-between was entry number 80,000. Well done. SemperBlotto 10:51, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

I certainly couldn't have done it alone, without the thousands of other entries that others have created. Thanks everybody for helping to make Wiktionary 80,000 strong. --Dvortygirl 05:29, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
Hi Dvortygirl,
You are right of course, it's a community effort and happening to add an entry with a round number isn't something to make a big fuss about. It's a milestone though and some people like to see how it all grows use those milestones to jubilate. I don't know either how to determine exactly which entry was number 80000. I don't think there is an exact method. (Since it's a calculated number, which excludes certain types of entries) I guess somebody is simply looking at the counter nearing the milestone or seeing it was just past and then trying to count back. I'm sure we can carry the burden together. :-) Keep up the good work!
Oh yes, I also want to apologize for the rather harsh reply on what I thought of English as a language for international communication, after you sent me that essay with all the words that sound the same but are written totally differently. I would prefer to see Esperanto used for that, but logical decisions are beyond the masses, so in 50-200 years Chinese will probably become the language for international communication... hi hi Polyglot 07:49, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Your welcome![edit]

Thanks! Nice to be here (at last!!) LoopZilla 07:43, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

I like your profile.[edit]

It's good to see that Wiktionary is still growing through your contributions and those of other committed Wiktionarians. Ground 21:06, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the encouragement[edit]

Hi Dvortygirl,

Dutch and English are very closely related. Dutch is the language that is the nearest cousin of English. From a Dutch vantage point it seems like German is a lot closer, but from English things look different. I have always wanted to create a project like this one. I even started programming on one, but it's a lot of grunt work to get it right and contributing here is the easier way out. I didn't abandon the idea entirely yet, but it's in the freezer for the moment. Maybe when GerardM gets his UW off the ground that'll really be how I think it should be done. Right now I'm working on a bot script again. What it can do already is store Wiktionary contents in an internal representation and then output an entry formatted for the English Wiktionary or for the Dutch Wiktionary. Now I should get started on trying to actually parse a page to this internal representation. Once I achieve that, the possibilities are endless. It will become possible to have the bot clean up a lot of pages (and make the formatting consistent), but also to export content to UW, my own project or simply to XML. It won't work automatically though. It will probably become an interactive bot as there are always ambiguities or really poorly formatted entries that are impossible to parse entirely by a script. So it will ask questions as it goes. Anyway, it feels good to see the work is appreciated. I got started again after a sort of a wikibreak when the toggle for first letter capitalization got flipped. I kind of felt responsible for starting the entire polemic and thus I wasn't going to have the other contributors clean up the mess all by themselves, so I started hitting random pages and got to work. Of course there was a lot more to do than fix first letter capitalization to keep me busy... Anyway, I'll stop rambling now :-) Polyglot 07:03, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

an aside[edit]


Just read your intro page. I taught English as a second language some time ago and thought I'd share a couple stories with you from my time at the front - just for your possible enjoyment.

The first time in a fast-food restaraunt. She knew English very well, but it was the first time she heard the words: for here, or to go?  :-) She just stood there. To go where?

Or how do you explain that, even though "and" links equals and the words can be switched (for example: "a" and "b" is the same -grammatically- as "b" and "a"), a phrase like "the stripes and stars" is just plain wrong. :-)

Anyway, just thought I'd share those - sounded like, from your intro, that you'd enjoy them.


Stranger in a Strange Land SSL69 19:36, 12 August 2005 (UTC)


Please check the etymology you gave for particulate. Looks random to me. Ncik 12:50, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

It sounds to me more like a latin origin than a greek one.
In French, particulate = particulaire , which comes from particule (particle) with suffix -aire. particule itself comes from latin particulus (which means "a little part"). --Kipmaster 13:12, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
It was random. Every so often I paste in template data and forget to replace the contents. Thanks for being alert. --Dvortygirl 02:56, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
Hi, if I want to write the etymology of the word, I need to know : is -ate an english suffix ? --Kipmaster 19:24, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
No. Ncik 19:55, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
Well, yes it is. --Kipmaster 20:26, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
( See [1] or Google )


Thanks for the hello message. I have done minor edits on several of the sister wiki projects, thought I would add myself here. Rpyle731 07:47, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

25 Ag 05[edit]

You're the Sysop on duty tonight? Looks like you've got a fun one ahead of you.  :-)

Only one point of contention on dinglehopper :: slim references?!? What!?! Scuttle not good 'nough for you?!!  :-) I did need the laugh - thanks.

Whilst you're deleting things, if you could manage SORE, that'd be great.

Also, is Polygot the local Dutch expert? I think the alleged vandalism on fun wasn't vandalism at all, but you'd need to know Dutch to know for sure.

--Stranger 05:09, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
>>>I rfd'd dinglehopper rather than delete it directly because I want to let the community decide on that one. I have seen the movie, and I recall the scene, but without a bit of usage outside the movie, it's just a nonsense word. Track down a citation or two, and I'll gladly let it stand. Otherwise, please don't take it personally.<<<

No, no, no - there was a smilely there - sorry for not making it clear enough. Cheers --Stranger 13:24, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Help pages[edit]


Several mostly random thoughts:

I'm not sure how serious you were the other day about revamping help pages. If you do get the gumption to take that on, please make Help:What is a part of speech one of the first things you get to...apparently the new helper templates (especially "basic") are making it too easy to add well-formatted nonsense?

We could even have things like "A noun is a person, place or thing"...apparently this is not obvious.

Also, should we have a warning somewhere for teachers...recommendations on contacting the FBI if their students see A.P. images...more verbose disclaimers, etc.? We do seem to have a sudden influx of school aged contributors.

--Connel MacKenzie 14:50, 27 August 2005 (UTC)


Thanks for the kind words. I have no doubt in my mind that I'm bitting off more than I can chew. Nevertheless there's no question a good legal reference is needed. Wikipedia is packed full of law terms that are much better off in a dictionary than a encyclopedia. Cheers! --Shoehorn 02:11, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

quick draw[edit]

Gosh, that was quick. "on duty" again?

Since reporting our resident vandal, I got scared and created a new acct 'cause the old one has my e-mail address; but my old acct still exists. Can you delete user SSL69 please?

And even though it turned out to be a repeated problem, I also wanted to compliment you on the tactful way you handled the obese MP user of the other day. I thought your simple reference to NPOV was very well put.

Cheers, --Stranger 14:57, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the acct info. Actually I just thought of something - I just went into the old acct and eliminated the email address. D'uh. If I were any more dumb, there'd be a law against me.  :-)
Another loose end deals with Webcest. One of immediate deletions (done by Connel or Semper?) I had wanted to keep for a little bit because it was by a little kid saying, essentially, that stalking kids for sex over the Internet is WRONG. I wanted that kept around a little bit so that I could address (what Connel has mentioned to you above) little kids using Wiktionary. At any rate, I was overruled, I guess, since it was immediately deleted anyway - but the talk page remains and should be deleted: Talk:Webcest.
Sorry - I'm a novelist. I think in terms of chapters. It always takes me a long time to say everything.
Cheers, --Stranger 19:13, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

IRC - Trillian[edit]

I really needed one of you guys this evening. We had another attack. I'm new to IRC and don't know anything about it. I tried the new Google Talk, but apparently you can only talk with other members of Google Talk. I also downloaded Trillian, but can't get it to work. It's probably just because I don't know anything about IRC. Do any of you IRCers know/use Trillian?

Cheers, --Stranger 23:16, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

I tried Skype, but it doesn't allow me to chat. Frustration. Forget it. I'll just hope that y'all pay attention to Recent Changes. --Stranger 21:41, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Unified languages[edit]

Hey Dvortygirl, could I ask you to comment on this outreach project? +sj + 23:35, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

asking the expert[edit]

Could you look at pull_out - there's now two of us who think this is a near miss for an idiom. I thought I'd ask the expert. Cheers, --Stranger 15:34, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, but[edit]

Thank you. Full disclosure: the list is out-of-date. Many of the terms have already been fixed - so I hope you didn't think I was fixing every one of these: I was just updating the neglected list. If this means you'll be taking back your award, please let me know first. I want to admire it one last time before it goes. Cheers, --Stranger 04:12, 9 September 2005 (UTC)


This is in a rather obscure place: Template_talk:welcome but I don't want it to get overlooked as it's important to me. I'm bringing it to your attention because I think you're good at welcoming folks.

Oh, and is it okay/safe to use IRC without being registered? I haven't read the manual yet and I really have other things I'd rather do. So, if it's okay, I'll just not do it. But you mentioned that I should. Anyway, . . .

Cheers, --Stranger 02:56, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, I have lurked a while in wictonary while mucking about in wikipedia. poss was only the second time I've been moved to put some stuff in wict' rather than 'pedia. I think I'm getting the hang of it. Did wonder what to do about creating an archaic usage of something that is more likely to be a miss-spelling these days though, thanks for sorting that. MGSpiller 00:09, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Time for breakfast[edit]


I made some croissant for you. They are not as good as I would have liked, because of the poor quality of my microphone. Another

also exists, and was recorded before mine (but is more noisy) --Kipmaster 20:59, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

yes, my new microphone works like a charm! Kipmaster 09:05, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the audio[edit]

Hi, I just wanted to say thanks for adding audio to some of my new definitions. Wmahan 04:29, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome[edit]

I still have much I wish to do at Wikipedia and if I do branch out it will probably be Wikiquote. Wikibooks just gives me agoraphobia. I probably won't do much here, but if I see something I can fix or add on my brief visits, of course, I shall. And I wish the project every success. --Bodnotbod 20:11, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

moving the deckchairs on the Titanic[edit]

How come this phrase is not defined as a verb to move the deckchairs on the Titanic? Same for the two alternative phrasings. Ncik 12:34, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

You're quite right. I'll fix that. I didn't enter this one, in the first place, and I was kind of sleepy when I touched it last night, mainly in an effort to consolidate the English idioms category into the Idioms category. --Dvortygirl 16:20, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

flying ointment[edit]


I'm not sure if there is a page where we put requests for idioms. I've just found this one on fr: that doesn't seem to be defined here: fly in the ointment or to find flies in the ointment or there is flies in the ointment. I don't know what should be the proper entry for that one. On fr:, I've created fr:fly in the ointment and fr:find flies in the ointment. Please help :). --Kipmaster 13:04, 30 October 2005 (UTC)


The 6-digit milestone is approaching. The actual 100,000th entry should be a fitting, great, momentous word. So to celebrate this time, if you've got any kick-ass words/idioms, then try to get them to hit the 100kth mark. I'm saving some weird, archaic, momentous and jocular words for that day, and, if time is fit, will probably try to get the actual 100kth article. Because I'm sad like that p. --Wonderfool 15:37, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

deletions / Deletions[edit]

Are you going to delete the Capitalized versions of all those redirects? SemperBlotto|Talk 18:29, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Someone needs to remember to whack those as well, yes. All help is appreciated. --Connel MacKenzie T + C # 18:37, 5 November 2005 (UTC)


Why do you delete all the redirects? It makes no sense to me --Dangherous 18:32, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

We are on a cleanup phase right before 100k, at the moment. On IRC, I asked for some help from other sysops in clearing those off. On the English Wiktionary, stem forms of words are not redirected but instead get entries of their own. It is more difficult to (re)enter a term correctly if there is an incorrect redirect in the way.
Each term has different pronunciation, translations, derived terms, etc. Lexically, there is a difference between the various forms of words. This is most exaggerated when translating words.
The redirects very recently can into focus again, due to the Double Redirect Bot that compounded cleanup efforts when correcting redirects that were incorrect to begin with. To be able to run the double redirect bot before 100k, the majority of the incorrect redirects need to be removed.
Non-sysops can help out by re-populating the entries deleted with "correct" non-redirect entries. But only sysops can delete the bogus redirects.
Many of the double redirects (from the de-capitalization) point to the entries they "should", if the incorrect redirects are replaced with proper entries. So the two-pronged cleanup effort is to first delete the incorrect entries.
I hope my explanation cleared up more questions than it causes...
--Connel MacKenzie T + C # 18:55, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
Also of important note: redirects do not count toward the count of total articles that appears on our Main Page (and Recent changes, etc.) Deleting the redirects does not lower that count either. Re-entering them as "proper entries" does count however. --Connel MacKenzie T + C # 19:20, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

notenglish and nolanguage[edit]

Hi there. At the end of this month I was planning on changing these so that the categories were just months rather than years and months. Then we could keep 12 permanant categories each and not have to keep adding / deleting them. Cheers SemperBlotto 08:10, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Fine by me. That one is empty of this year's old junk. Feel free to put it back. --Dvortygirl 08:12, 28 November 2005 (UTC)


Well, I didn't expect that! It's good to be appreciated. And I don't feel quite so old now. SemperBlotto 08:42, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Images - Commons[edit]

Thanks for the tip Dvortygirl! I will do as you suggest and copy image files to Commons. A couple of questions:

  1. How do I list a file on Wiktionary for deletion, I HAVE looked in help! I did it a while ago on Wikipedia is it the same here?
  2. Can the files have the same name? Will the system when looking for a file default first to Wiktionary and then to Commons.
  • Thanks for your help - AND is this the appropriate way to reply?  Saltmarsh 07:13, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
thanks for you very helpful reply — Saltmarsh 11:41, 10 December 2005 (UTC)


Thanks for the awesome wiktionary welcome.

I joined Wiktionary so I can help clear the backlog in Wikipedia for "Things to be moved to Wiktionary".

Hence why my userpage redirects to my wikipedia page... ;-)

Again, thanks! Kareeser 06:11, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Re: like a duck takes to water[edit]

I like these stuff too :), but unfortunately, in this instance, their usages/definitions seem to be not exactly matching while they are agreeing literally :(. Anyway thank you for the comment. I'm gonna do this kind of translation at every opportunity. --Tohru 06:56, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Noticed your Amgine fan letters[edit]

Really curious; how does someone ignore his misbehaviour. Do you simply not look at it ? not think its true ? or figure his good points outweigh any type of misbehaviour ? I mean, to me, it would be like encouraging a school board to hire a convicted child molester to teach 2nd. graders because you think he's a good teacher and just ignoring the fact of the conviction; so I do you do it? What is the actual mental process that leads you to support him? Methodology 19:51, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

Thanks for the welcome :) --Missmarple 08:40, 24 December 2005 (UTC)


After seeing your last reversion, I have protected this page again. These testosterone based edits from some people are a little distracting. :-) Eclecticology 22:06, 24 December 2005 (UTC)


Thanks for your help reverting the vandalism of "Mayodan" earlier today. - dcljr 22:53, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

help page[edit]

Dvortygirl - You asked about the above. It would/might help to have a brief summary para at the to - explaining how the system works (of course this be be found elsewhere, but I havent found it :). As a newbie I have had top read between the lines to discover why certain things have to be done. Something like:

Files are deleted by an administrator (are they !). For this to happen the article itself needs flagging by (a) inserting the appropriate template (see below) in the article text, and (b) placing the title of the article in the appropriate list (see below). In uncontentious cases article will be taken quite quickly, else longer will be taken while other's views will be waited for.

Other than that it is nice - clear and concise. Saltmarsh 11:18, 21 December 2005 (UTC)


Nuvola apps important.svg An edit war is starting at Wiktionary:Entry layout explained. Please take a look at the page.

Gerard Foley 03:02, 1 January 2006 (UTC)


What sort of things should I record? It's very, very easy for me to just record audio pronunciations of things. Is there a "hit list" of sorts? Or do all words need audio to go with them? Thanks, Celestianpower 14:54, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Pronunciation key[edit]

Thought it might be useful if all the words on the above page had audio pronunciations. Ncik 15:53, 7 January 2006 (UTC)


Hi, Dvortygirl. Thanks for welcoming me to Wiktionary. I'm sorry I took so long to respond, but I had gone on a Wikibreak for the past week-and-a-half. I've looked at some of the links and appreciate the welcome. Thanks:) --Think Fast 23:36, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


No problem. Always happy to help. Gerard Foley 05:48, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Jon HaroId Søby[edit]

Just to let you know, it's safe to delete everything from this user, I looked at them all. (putting delete templates on all of them is a wast of time!) Gerard Foley 01:11, 18 January 2006 (UTC)


Thanks for the warm welcome :) I've been doing some edits without an account. Would you know how to have them attributed to me? Here's the IP I had: --Nino Gonzales 02:56, 20 January 2006 (UTC)


saying hello

Er, hello, whoever you are. — Dvortygirl 08:08, 31 January 2006 (UTC)


Hello Dvortygirl. I just stumbled across Category:Animal sounds, and wondered... any chance of you doing audio for these? --Dangherous 21:56, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

What I meant to say, is ... if you have any nearby animals that make these sounds, they'd be fun to record maybe. I couldn't possibly ask a lady to shout animal noises into a dictionary! --Dangherous 21:59, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
No problem. Onomatopoeia is among the things that should get audio, and I'm not above a bit of silliness now and then. I'll put them on my list, but no guarantees on the time-frame. We have a lot of words that still need sounds. —Dvortygirl 08:08, 31 January 2006 (UTC)


Hi there. Q: isn't there any more efficient way for a non-sysop (me) to revert vandalism? It's quite frustrating to see the RC being flooded with it! — Vildricianus 21:28, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Same question was gonna be asked by me, but I thought I'd wait for u to finish ur reverting first. :) --Dangherous 21:29, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
Being non sysop, you don't have the revert button (which is very useful), so the best you can do is edit the last safe version, and save it. Otherwise, you can ask for adminship (sorry for intrusion ;-) ) Kipmaster 21:33, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply, Dvortygirl. I've already popped in on IRC a couple of times, but there wasn't much going on. I'll try again when I have a new computer next week :-). Cheers. — Vildricianus 10:13, 1 February 2006 (UTC)


Yes, please put my name forward. I am honoured. Yesterday’s vandal was destroying entries faster than I could revert them. Your intervention was much appreciated. Jonathan Webley 12:23, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your support and encouragement. I hope I can live up to your standards. Jonathan Webley 08:56, 2 February 2006 (UTC)


Someone happened to tell me you were looking for me... alas, I don't frequent #wiktionary, but I'm almost always somewhere on freenode (sometimes not awake, though)... almost embarrassed to admit that I don't frequent this place, given my penchant for arcane, euphonious, and just plain strange words and expressions, but alas, the 'pedia's managed to keep me busy. Feel free to leave me a message, wandering or not. :-) Mindspillage 17:08, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

why did you block ip number 167 168 and 169 ip portland maine not a vandal![edit]

i would like to know for how long is the block dvortygirl??? 18:25, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Please refer to the block log for reasons and duration. If a specific block is causing problems, please indicate which one so that I can adjust it accordingly. If I blocked certain IPs, most likely it was in response to a spate of persistent vandalism or malicious edits. — Dvortygirl 19:37, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

when push comes to shove[edit]

My old boss (a youngish lady) had two pet hamsters "Push" (male) and "Shove" (female) named for the obvious reason! SemperBlotto 18:34, 4 February 2006 (UTC)


Yesterday, you had that remark on IRC that you did not change "en-us-admit.ogg" in the prononciation. So, I analyzed the dump to look for this word, and found:

The audios there should probably be corrected... Kipmaster 10:56, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Oops, I'm all wrong! Now, I'm wondering why...
Ahah "23:19, 4 February 2006 Dvortygirl m (fix link)" Well done ;) Kipmaster 10:58, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I poked her in that general direction a couple of days ago ;). Celestianpower 14:45, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, guys, for keeping me honest on this stuff. Yes, I just fixed all those. I've modified the template I paste in so it uses {{subst:PAGENAME}}, and we'll see how that goes. Some audio files will need me to modify the name, but in the meantime, I'll save a lot of retyping. I do quite a lot of audio, though, so if you find a broken link, please either fix it, or bug me. —Dvortygirl 05:04, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


is it better to create a simple definiton for a word than to not have the word defined and hope someone else creates it? or is it okay to make a very basic, simple definition, so that it can be added to and revised? Benlawrence 10:03, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

oh cool, thank you very much for the link! Benlawrence 21:05, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


Thanks for the particularly fast welcome. I just signed up minutes ago, and noticed it there. It was so fast, I thought it was automated at first, then checked, and nope, it's from a real person. --Ron Johnson 02:04, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

dvortygirl when will the block expire for maine libraries... i was no vandal! -- 17:15, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Please tell me the IP(s) for the Maine libraries, so I know what block is the problem. Refer to the block log for reasons and duration. —Dvortygirl 17:35, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

dvorty the ip 169 i think you blocked and called me or anyone else a "vandal"? 17:37, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

also dvorty i would also like to know when the block will expire? 17:39, 26 February 2006 (UTC) maine library ips all of them... i think you made a costly mistake as i know lots of people from maine ips would like to contribute to wiktionary in regards... 17:39, 26 February 2006 (UTC)


Thanks for the heads-up. I'll keep an eye out. I added a comment to his/her user page. — Paul G 07:33, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Greek derivations[edit]

Hi Dvortygirl

I am here to help if and as much as I can, I think Wiktionary (and Wikipedia) is a wonderful democratic idea!

And now a question:

I would like to add words of Greek origin and also prefixes and suffixes from Greek, to the Categories: Greek derivations. How can I do that?

Thanks, Kassios 08:35, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Category order?[edit]

Thanks alot Dvortygirl.

What about if a word belongs to more than one category or there are already more categories there? Wouldn't it automatically follow an alphabetical order?


I just added Greek derivations to the word "rose" and it looks like this:

"Categories: Check translations | Colors | Reds | Flowers | Greek derivations | fr:Colors | fr:Flowers | es:Colors"

I thought that "Greek derivations" would follow alphabetically in the above example, since there are already other categories, but as you can see it doesn't. Why is that? Is that how it is supposed to look?

Kassios 18:17, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

DvortyGirl you block a user of maine libraries and called a vandal when will the block go away? 18:18, 3 March 2006 (UTC) reply please 18:18, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

This user persisted in submitting problem entries. Please see this page for details so far. --Dvortygirl 16:39, 5 March 2006 (UTC)


Hey, thnx for the welcome. Hope those articles work out. Hopefully I'll be around more soon. :) Searchme 04:35, 4 March 2006 (UTC)


Hey Dvorty! I just wanted to thank you for the vote!  :) --Dijan 08:56, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

I finally have my own buttons!!! Now, lets kick some vandal butt!  :) --Dijan 00:56, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Translate vs. define[edit]

Purodha, that's an impressive list of translations under Zylinder, but it belongs under cylinder instead. Because this is the English Wiktionary, we define or translate non-English words into English, then place translations into other languages under the English entries. For examples, see boue (French) and cadena (Spanish). In English, horse is an example of a correctly-formatted entry with translations for multiple senses.

What does belong under Zylinder is the English definitions and translation. If this is not clear, leave me a note and I'll try to do better. Thanks for your contributions. --Dvortygirl 07:20, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

  • Most data under "Zylinder German" came from "cylinder English" — I worked through the "Category:Translations to be checked (German)" list, found that "Zylinder, German" is basically identical to "cylinder, English" plus "cylinder hat", and created "Zylinder" from a copy of "cylinder, English".
  • That said, I seem not to fully understand the principle or intent of Wiktionary. Coming from the perspective of one who was educated a mathematician at a time when computer science was not yet thaught, who worked with software systems ever since, who — albeit few semesters of linguistics — as a hobbyist contemplates automated translation, I seem too much to look at Wikipedia as a potential source of an information base for translations. — Since my own translation work as a human is often based on a branch-and-bound algorithm, where independently made reverse translations are being used to refine / reduce the choice of possibilities to translate a sentence and eliminate potentially misleading ones, I read in the introductory pages on Wiktionary, it was a dictionary of "all words in all languages". I thus concluded they were all treated equally, whith the only difference between the language Wiktionaries being the metalanguage used to write about each word of every language. Of couse that lead me to the assumption that, after years of development, (linguistic) contents in the various language Wiktionaries were bound to converge and at a dynamic optimum be identical in all Wiktionaries. An assumption that rose the unanswered question: Why the hell did they not choose a more appropritate data base format — why had it to be a text-wiki, where consequentially much efford is being duplicated between language wikis? I seem to be mistaken, though.
  • I am uncertain where my comment should generally go — on "my" talk page User_Talk:Purodha, or on "yours" User_Talk:Dvortygirl ? Since you invited me to yours, it's obvious here & now. But what, if you had not?
  • Thank you in advance, in case you would be able and care to help me. -- Purodha Blissenbach 08:53, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

thanks for wellcome[edit]

( :-) Have a nice day. Jurohi 16:09, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Recent blocks/deletes[edit]

I've changed my mind regarding that anonymous contributor we discussed on IRC a few days ago. Do not bite the newcomers is now out the window, as he/she/they've far exceeded my patience. Not *all* the entries were pre-RFV'd this time, but all the entries were useless. I guess you were right. --Connel MacKenzie T C 21:38, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Is it you?[edit]

Για σου, Δβόρτηγ-ελ! :) How's sunny California? My feet are warmer now and, after some good-sleep nights, I am now as fresh and cool as a lettuce [a Spanish saying: "fresco como una lechuga":]. Last Thursday our common little friend, Blockhead (aka "exCENSOREDnt vandal") was quite active in es.wikt and I think he created a clone with your exact name there, which I blocked. Please confirm (here, in en.wikt in my user talk page) whether you created the user page yourself or not. If you want to create one there, just let Spacebirdy (or me) know. Thanx :) --Piolinfax 16:07, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for you welcome[edit]

Thank you for you kind welcome. *smile*--sanna 17:09, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Help:Audio pronunciations[edit]

Does a help page on adding audio pronunciations already exist? If not, would you mind starting the above page (possibly by copying some Wikipedia stuff there)? Ncik 14:36, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

shore up[edit]

Well, I think that your example sentence is non-idiomatic - because a shore is a prop or similar support. An idiomatic use would be something like "He used faulty logic to shore up his argument". Cheers. SemperBlotto 16:45, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Audio uploads[edit]

Definitely. It should be pretty easy to automate the uploading and linking parts. (Can't help you with speeding up the recording :-).) You can use the Commonist program [[2]] to schlep entire directories at a time to the Commons. Now that (I think) I've got the hang of the bot framework, it shouldn't be too hard to make a bot that will take a list of filenames from your Commons contributions page and do a simple string replace on the pronunciation entries on the corresponding Wiktionary pages. There are probably other ways that would work too. I'll try to spend some time on IRC tomorrow (Friday) night so we can talk more about it. -- Keffy 05:49, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Audio WOTD[edit]

Greetings! I'm excited to see all the audio files you've been adding to Wiktionary. Keep up the good work! I would like to suggest, however, that you consider looking ahead to future Word of the Day listings, and perhaps place audio files on each candidate before the day it is featured. I think that would make Word of the Day splendiferous. --EncycloPetey 18:15, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Will do. I've set myself an informal rule of staying at least two weeks ahead on WOTD, so that we don't end up with missing days as happened twice in February. At the same time, I don't want to fill everything in, since others will want to participate as well. Should you feel an inclination to work the WOTD retroactively, there is now a Cumulative Index page that lists old words alphabetically. We needed something simple to keep track of words once they had appeared, particularly since both butterfly and peregrinate have been WOTD twice this year. --EncycloPetey 19:55, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
Just a heads-up that we now have words queued on WOTD through 24 April 2006. (You've already given pronunciations though the 12th.) --EncycloPetey
We now have words queued on WOTD through 4 May 2006. (You've already given pronunciations though the 24th of April, I think.) --EncycloPetey 03:54, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Did you notice the external link on the mallemaroking page? The article says the word is in the Chambers Dictionary and Complete Oxford. The on-line OED lists:
  • 1812 W. SCORESBY Jrnl. 30 June in C. I. Jackson Arctic Whaling Jrnls. (2003) I. 111 Bear away again run 73° or 74 of Lat and then have another visit or Mallemuching as it is termed by the Fishers.
  • 1867 W. H. SMYTH Sailor's Word-bk., Mallemaroking, the visiting and carousing of seamen in the Greenland ships.
  • 1994 Guardian 28 July I. 22/7 She had just crossed the Arctic Circle, the captain reported, and indeed he had to cut short the communication ‘due to an outbreak of mallemaroking among the crew’.
--EncycloPetey 04:10, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
I was working on IPA for WOTD and noticed that you missed putting in audio files for pshaw and verisimilitude. Was that intentional or accidental? --EncycloPetey 08:51, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

something I crossed in the beer parlo(u)r[edit]

Could you please try and define this one: go the whole hog? Dankesehr. (Oh, we'll have to archive that page definitely...) Kipmaster 11:22, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Project - WikiSaurus improvement 1[edit]

Wiktionary:Project - WikiSaurus improvement 1 I've created this page to have a common ground to discuss improvements to WikiSaurus. Hope you are interested.--Richardb 09:18, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi from South Africa[edit]

Hi Dvortygirl, Thank you for your welcome. I am an engineer, so I don't count money and I like to check my spelling if it is convenient.. Regards, Gregorydavid 07:34, 3 April 2006 (UTC)


Hi, I see you removed my rfd for Kummerspeck on the grounds you'd "found attestations", but you don't say what you found. Of course there are lots of Google hits for this German word since the publication of that (infamously unreliable) book The Meaning of Tingo, and while this is a genuine word of German, I would be very surprised to see any evidence for its existence in English, without reference to that book. Can we know what your grounds were for removing the rfd please? Best wishes Flapdragon 21:06, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your kind reply. Maybe sometimes words do catch on based on their use in one book somewhere, but a dictionary isn't about guessing what words may enter the language in the future. Cheers Flapdragon 23:32, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
Even though dictionary listings are not appropriate for verification, it's probable that one will find plenty of attestations when it appears in a pocket translating dictionary. Note also that the entry has a =Geman= header, not an English one. — Vildricianus 21:14, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
It does now, yes. Flapdragon 23:32, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

persona non gratis[edit]

Hi DG! You just requested the word above. I just wanted to check you didn't mean persona non grata? Widsith 08:45, 9 April 2006 (UTC)


What about inflexible, unmoveable, and hard-hearted? --EncycloPetey 07:42, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

the pot calling the kettle black[edit]

Hi D'girl, could you make the pot calling the kettle black? It's lingering over at Wikipedia's recycling bin needing a Wiktionary link. Thanks, --Dangherous 18:44, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

New user[edit]

Hi there. I noticed your welcome to User:Semper15. Well, I suppose it could be coincidence, but I think it best to keep a close eye on him. His contributions so far seem to come from the American Heritage Dictionary with enough small changes to not be copyvios. SemperBlotto 07:08, 19 April 2006 (UTC)



You mean "modicum", surely? — Paul G 08:42, 20 April 2006 (UTC) `


Perhaps you can help me creating spanish entries from Spanish requested pages, I've commmented words but i need an english speaker to make entries-- 10:41, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Latest WOTD selections[edit]

There's another batch of new WOTD entries in the queue for May -- about another 16 entries or so. Oh...and there was a request for a pronunciation of cichlid -- I've put in the IPA, but a sound file would be nice since the pronunciation isn't quite obvious. Thanks again for working so hard to create all these nice the audio files! --EncycloPetey 08:19, 25 April 2006 (UTC)


Thank you for the welcoming message. I mostly work on FR and Wikipedia/EN David Latapie 19:36, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

pissing out of the tent[edit]

I've thought of entering this but do you need the whole quote? Perhaps I can leave it up to you to decide?

Better to have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside pissing in. {Lynden B. Johnson, of J. Edgar Hoover)Andrew massyn 21:50, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

WOTD audio[edit]

The first 24 June words are now listed for your audio pleasure. --EncycloPetey 20:40, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


Hi. I just noticed you welcomed the word brew to the wiktionary. I think you may want to blank the page, unless it is standard practice to welcome words? :) Road Wizard 03:04, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Request no. 4511[edit]

I can't remember which audio I requested last time, but could you do withstand some day? (Was it withstand? Can't remember). — Vildricianus 17:45, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you! — Vildricianus 17:49, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
Right, twenty. Cheers. — Vildricianus 17:51, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
I make a point of not IRCing until my finals are done. To no avail, though, can't stay way here :-). — Vildricianus 17:58, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Idioms Questions[edit]

Hope you don't mind my asking a few questions - you seem to be involved in things 'idiom', so I'm hoping you know the answers.

I was looking for stuff to do, and landed upon the task of clearing out [[Catagory:English_idioms]] and putting stuff into [[Category:Idioms]]. Is it acceptable to just edit the catagory tag or are there other things that need to be done to the content?

While exploring, I was looking at Template:idiom - the current content of the template is {{cattag|idiom}}. Does this template need to be fixed? Or is the wiki software just suggesting using equate and subst as good practice?

Thanks in Advance, Versageek 02:14, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry for butting in but I think I can field this one. That template it right, it should add (idiom) to the article and put it in Category:Idioms. Add to to the start of a definition, like in two cents. If you have any more questions, please ask away! Thanks and kind regards, — Celestianpower háblame 17:51, 7 June 2006 (UTC)


Don't worry about trying to see me on the way there, I'm offcially going. We'll have DAYS :) Pschemp 15:10, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Main Page Audio[edit]

As your files are linked to from the MP, could you keep up with the WOTDs and if not, warn someone that there's going to be a red link? Cheers. — Vildricianus 21:05, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

You can easily check the audio links here. Right now everything is fine up to June 25. I realized that it's not a big problem if you miss a day; the "red" link won't be red and will just lead to the Special:Upload page. — Vildricianus 11:05, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

chicken and egg[edit]

So, which came first, the chicken or the egg?

More to the point, where in Wiktionary:List of idioms does that fit in? The references to God (Chicken) and Mankind (egg) is certainly idiomatic, no? --Connel MacKenzie T C 07:22, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

More WOTD[edit]

Since I see you're online... I finished adding the June WOTD entries, and am in the process of filling out July through the 24th. They're ready for audio. --EncycloPetey 05:23, 15 June 2006 (UTC)


If you would be so kind as to pronounce cellar door and stick it on this page I would appreciate it :) - TheDaveRoss 18:01, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

And d'oh while you're at it :P. — Celestianpower háblame 18:03, 15 June 2006 (UTC)


She's a tawkin fool!

(My compliments.)

scs 01:20, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! I'm presently working my way through the basic words categories. --Dvortygirl 01:22, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


Can't their be a better solution for such cases? Like using a basic verb like "find" or whatever, mentioning it can be replaced by any verb? The X is confusing, as I thought it was really about "Xing one's way out" :-). — Vildricianus 12:39, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

WOTD audio[edit]

Me again. jocular (June 26) doesn't have any audio. Cheers. — Vildricianus 12:26, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for the heads up. --Dvortygirl 02:47, 24 June 2006 (UTC)


Is it my new IRC client that is causing my grief, or is really down? --Connel MacKenzie T C 18:15, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Blocked user[edit]

Hi Dvortygirl,

I've had an email from an AOL user called Nicholas Zendelbach saying that you blocked his article about "knowledge normalization" and that he needs to get his work back. He's offering to mail me a company video (although I don't know why I would want one).

It smells of spam, but I haven't been able to trace the user or the article to check.

What do you know about it? Seems a bit silly anyway to post your life's work on Wiktionary and expect us to look after it for him, if that is what has happened.

Thanks. — Paul G 20:35, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Paul, I don't recall anything about the user or the article in question. If it isn't outright spam, and the user has managed to give you an article title, it ought to be possible for anyone with admin rights to retrieve the contents of something that was deleted, unless it was overwritten and protected (though if that was the case, it was probably for cause). Failing that, I'd remind the user that Wiktionary is not a blog site or web hosting service and it's his tough luck for trying to use it that way. --Dvortygirl 05:41, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Sure, that's what I thought. It just seems very bizarre. I couldn't find the article in question, but I'll contact him as you suggest. — Paul G 05:49, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Copy of what I have posted to him (which is probably too generous if he turns out to be a vandal/time-waster):

I have been unable to find any record on Wiktionary of your article. The only contribution from your IP address is a modification to an existing article on 5 March 2006.
The IP address that you appear to be posting from is part of a range of shared AOL IP addresses from proxy servers. Posting to Wiktionary from these addresses is not blocked in order to help limit vandalism.
If you provide me with the exact title of the page that you created, I will see if I can recover it.
Note however that Wiktionary is a dictionary and not a repository for personal data. This would be why your article was deleted. If you wish to upload your article for storage online, you may like to make use of other Internet services provided for this purpose.
If you wish to post to Wiktionary in future, I recommend you create a username and post from a non-AOL account.
Paul Giaccone
Wiktionary administrator

<span id="63278017229" /

UPDATE ON AUTHOR: Nicholas Zendelbach.

Allow me to introduce International Cognitive Computing and CAMBO.


Nicholas Zendelbach President International Cognitive Computing The Shores (PO Box 602) Lakeside, Arizona 85929

Email: Web site:

Abstract of the Disclosure.

The invention's name is CAMBO an acronym for Computer Aided Management By Objective. The title is a "multi-EXPERT System Generator", and the vision an "artificial intelligent bridge" between technology and the ability to automate the instruments of the MBO methodology, namely: Charters, Organization Charts, Operational Plans, Project Management, Performance Planning and others all containing the knowledge, expressed in 'English Grammatical Sentences', upon which an enterprise conducts business. It would require the design of a unique combination of advanced methodology and technology capabilities built upon and work in concert with current state of the art, 'Data Normalized', Relational Data Base structure. The "AI Bridge" would include an advanced methodology for Normalizing Knowledge, a unique definition for a unit or element of knowledge, an advanced structure for a Spatial Relational Knowledge Base and a 5th generation programming language to support a Natural Language Processing interface. A successful CAMBO installation video is available.

NOTICE. Patent pending application renewed September 2009 for 2010.

Non-Provisional (Utility) Patent.

Specification. See CAMBO, customer video presentation of an installed and operating multi-EXPERT system and Natural Language Processing interface.

Title of the Invention. Applicant: Nicholas Joseph Zendelbach, US Citizen, Lakeside, Arizona, 85929. Invention: A Computer, multi-EXPERT System Generator, to include:

· Knowledge Engineering Storyboard Methodology.

· New paradigm: Knowledge Normalization for Spatial Relational Knowledge Base.

· 5th Generation Programming Language LIPS1 (Language Instruction Per Sentence).

· Natural Language Processing, methodology.

Background of the Invention. See: Introduction Section and CAMBO History Video, narrated by Nicholas Zendelbach.

Brief Summary of the Invention. See: Section ONE, Methodology.

Detailed Description of the Invention.

o Section TWO, Knowledge Engineering, TQM2 and BCL. o Section THREE, Rule Writing. o Section FOUR, Business Applications. o Examples: Knowledge Engineering Storyboard, Military Application (NEMISYS), Artificial Intelligent (AI) Human GENE Research, Brain Mapping,72 billion dollar, Silicon Valley, County Assessor.

Claims. Thank you for reviewing my design work titled, CAMBO an acronym for Computer Aided Management By Objective. The name was chosen because I envisioned an artificial intelligent bridge between technology and the ability to automate the instruments of the MBO methodology, namely: Charters, Organization Charts, Operational Plans, Project Management, Performance Planning and others all containing the knowledge, expressed in 'English Grammatical Sentences', upon which an enterprise conducts business. It would require the design of a unique combination of advanced methodology and technology capabilities built upon and work in concert with current state of the art, 'Data Normalized', Relational Data Base structure.

The AI Bridge would require four sections;

1. A new methodology for normalizing knowledge elements. CAMBO: new paradigm for 'Knowledge Normalization'. Knowledge Engineering Storyboard and P3 models=4 Prime Domains of Knowledge. 2. A new definition for a knowledge element. CAMBO: a single knowledge element is a single 'English Grammatical Sentence', expressed as a single rule, that when composed with other 'English Grammatical Sentences' combine to form a 'Rule Set'. 3. A new design for a knowledge relational base. CAMBO: Spatial Knowledge Relational Base structure, dimensional P3 models processing relational Rule Sets. 4. A new knowledge access method. CAMBO: Natural Language Processing, 5th Generation programming language: LIPS1 (Language Instructions Per Sentence), LIPS2 (Logical Inference Per Sentence) and MECA (Multi Expert Consanguine Analyzer).

From: PROTOTYPE MODELS TO OPERATIONAL SYSTEM. See CAMBO, customer video presentation of an installed and operating multi-EXPERT system and Natural Language Processing interface.

Having demonstrated the operability of the CAMBO design for a multi-EXPERT system with a Natural Language Processing interface, the foundation has been laid to juxtapose the watershed created by the development of a Data Normalization methodology (Entity Relationship, Canonical Synthesis) for designing a Relational Data Base structure, with the CAMBO watershed, Knowledge Normalization for designing a Relational (Spatial) Knowledge Base structure.

The value in this invention is four fold.

· First, the ability to: Identify, Capture, Codify and Relate 'knowledge', in a Natural Language opens the door for one person to access the combined talents, skills and experiential knowledge of many human experts.

· Second, planning: project management, scheduling resources, organizing resources and directing resources will be predicated upon knowledge relationships in concert with data relationships. The kernel logic here is simply that when a computer executes knowledge, in the form of rule sets, the results are presented as data, which in turn gives direction to those rule sets requiring change.

· Third, the development of systems based upon the new foundation of 'Relational Knowledge' in a Natural Language interface will reach beyond the business enterprise arena to all forms of human endeavor. An example is medical research, for which growth and direction is guided by the results produced from experiments. The ability to: Identify, Capture, Codify and relate these results will exponentially increase the ability to discover, translate and apply treatment modalities. (see section titled 'AI Gene Research') In the field of engineering (see client demonstration video), the knowledge of senior engineers can be passed onto junior engineers, as it would apply with all fields of human endeavor, knowledge need not be forgotten or lost. A computer Spatial Relational Knowledge Base is the foundation upon which new knowledge is constantly updated becoming the 'shoulders upon which we can stand and see farther'.

· Fourth, the installation of knowledge based systems in differing human endeavors will have the effect of unifying human experiential knowledge and providing the ability to cross reference a more cognitive and meaningful view of the subject matter.

The following video is a client review of the successful installation of CAMBO.

Publications: In 2001 Industrial Design Corporation, Tempe, AZ, asked International Cognitive Computing to design an ERP system that would capture the rules by which their engineers conducted business? The ERP initiative for this project is 3 fold.

First, that due to the cyclical nature of the semiconductor industry, IDC has been required to hire and layoff engineers, placing them in an almost constant state of talent searching (a bottleneck for developing an ERP application).

Second, the uniqueness of the skills required is compounded by the varying engineering and scientific disciplines involved in a single customer order (another bottleneck for developing an ERP application).

Third, IDC management has a strong ERP strategic direction that includes the automation and retrieval of the rules by which their senior engineers (in all disciplines and sciences) makes decisions about elements of a customer requirement.

SUCCESS: The IDC Story: The First Successful AI Based Multi-Expert System in Arizona.

Examine a multi-expert system generator, Rose Navigator, and an Enterprise Resource Plan to help manage the need for human engineers against the dynamics of customer expectations and orders. Pages: 39 through 45, also pages 1 and 5.

Abstract This article introduces a new paradigm to the discipline of engineering human knowledge, one that we divide into four tenets of knowledge representation: 1. The four prime domains of knowledge. 2. All human knowledge has, at its root, a language to communicate the knowledge. 3. A single language sentence contains the smallest unit of knowledge, and it is possible to normalize and codify this unit of knowledge into a multi-expert computer system (Language representation). 4. A knowledge based computer system can learn as well as teach.

This paradigm, as illustrated in this article, is the result of research and development and the resulting creation of a multi expert system generator. The methodology of the multi-expert system generator is a self-designing system — it constructs and designs attributes that are an integral part of the methodology, process and architecture used to generate the multi-expert system.

Magazine Article:

This video is a 10 minute CAMBO introduction.

This video is a 45 minute CAMBO R&D history review.

video link:

This video is a 45 minute client review of a successful CAMBO installation.

video link:


Are you interested in becoming a bureaucrat? It may not be a good moment to bug you with that, but a confirmation or denial could at least allay some of our wonders about who would make a good third crat. Cheers, — Vildricianus 09:02, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

The thing is, being a bureaucrat involves little more than setting a bot or sysop flag now and then. The only requirement is being available and easily reachable (preferably through IRC) to be bugged with such requests. It doesn't eat up one's time, but apparently, both of our current crats fail to do any of it. So technical savviness isn't a requirement, nor is being present 24/7 or following every Beer parlour post meticulously.
Please say so if you don't feel like taking this on right now, in a time when anything is obviously more important than stupid bot flags. Nevertheless, this nomination remains valid, whether someone else shows up to be the third crat or not.
About the request: I'll try to get to it ASAP. Take care, — Vildricianus 08:47, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Wiktionary:Bureaucrats#Dvortygirl. Good luck! — Vildricianus 11:00, 14 July 2006 (UTC)


August finished. If only Wyt were a bit less lazy, September could have been done as well. Alas. — Vildricianus 18:09, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

everything but the kitchen sink[edit]

What gloss do you want - linked entries in the German Wiktionary, or an english explanation, literal translation, perhaps, of the German terms here? -- Purodha Blissenbach 09:10, 15 July 2006 (UTC) Don't say Yes, or 42


I'll most likely be there. (I live in Cambridge, so it's an easy trip!) —scs 17:06, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


Congratulations, you are now a Wiktionary bureaucrat!

There is hardly anything more to do than you could do as a sysop. Principally, you have the power to create new admins or bureaucrats.

Please keep an eye on the Wiktionary:Administrators and Wiktionary:Bureaucrats, creating new admins or bureaucrats when there is strong support for them, and adding their details to those pages. If there is any opposition, you can discuss with the other bureaucrats (User:Eclecticology and me) whether we should promote the particular user.

To make an admins or to promote an existing admin to a bureaucrat, click on the "Special pages" link (visible when you are viewing a user page or a user talk page) at the bottom of the "toolbox" section of the left margin (below the search box) scroll down to "Restricted special pages" and click on "Make a user into a sysop". Enter the user's name, and check the box if you are promoting them from administrator to bureaucrat.

Have fun! — Paul G 19:51, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Congrats indeed! Actually, there haven't been any sysop nominations in the last months, so that's not quite the reason why we needed an extra bureaucrat. It's mainly the bot approvals that have been backlogged. To start off, here's what still needs to be done:
These accounts have been waiting for a while to get the bot flag, a task which has recently been transfered from stewards to local bureaucrats. It should happen via Special:Makebot, as explained on meta:MakeBot.
It'd be great if you could take a look at it, since Paul has explicitly stated he won't do it, despite the extreme easiness of the job. Cheers, and congrats again! (sounds a bit like the Welcome template, doesn't it?) — Vildricianus 20:01, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, not quite - it was "can't" rather than "won't". I would if I knew how to. — Paul G 20:04, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Wow! Thanks, all, and thanks all who supported me. I'm at work at the moment, and it may be a busy next few of evenings (!), but I'll definitely check into all this the next time I'm online, awake, and have a few moments to spare. --Dvortygirl 20:08, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I see you've beaten me to it on granting the rhymes bot. What do you think about the others? They don't look as clear-cut to me as the support for the rhymes bot. — Paul G 19:06, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
Also, there is a renaming going on: I've politely requested a rename at Wiktionary:Changing username, just like I've had at Wikipedia, w:User:Wonderfool (as done by Raul654 no less). --WildrickExpurgator t(c) 10:13, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Here comes the bride...[edit]

I heard your good news - congratulations! Does this mean you will be requesting a change of username? ;) I wish you happiness together. — Paul G 09:56, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

User:Dvortywife isn't taken... —Celestianpower háblame 14:43, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, anyway, but no names nor pseudonyms were changed as a result of this wedding. —Dvortygirl 14:52, 3 September 2006 (UTC)


Was this a typo of yours, for acerbic? Or really a word? — Vildricianus 19:52, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Some audio requests[edit]

I don't know whether you've been following the Collaboration of the week, but it's where interested Wiktionarians go back and flesh out some older, basic entries. I noticed that parent, mother, child, and son did not have audio files yet. Could you help out? Eventually I hope to be set up to record audio files myself (but first I have to move and start a new job). There's no pressure of course to be either of the first two yet, just record the sound file. --EncycloPetey 23:47, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Vildricianus at RfB[edit]

Greetings, Dvortygirl (or is it now Dvortywife). As you are a Bureaucrat, I wish to point out for you that Vildricianus has enjoyed substantial support in his nomination at Wiktionary:Bureaucrats for some time, and is likely due for promotion. Cheers! bd2412 T 04:33, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for blocking those anti-Vild attack accounts... I'm working up a more permanent solution to the problem. Cheers! bd2412 T 03:22, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

I posted two new terms and defs to Wiktionary this morning that don't now exist... either in the main database or in my contributions. Strange. What do I do? What happened?

Randall Reetz

Missing contributions...[edit]

I submitted 2 terms/defs this morning... now they are poof... gonzo. ??? —This unsigned comment was added by Randallreetz (talkcontribs).

They appear in Special:Log/delete. --Connel MacKenzie 23:30, 22 August 2006 (UTC)


Thanks for the appointment and the notification thereof! Cheers, — Vildricianus 08:22, 3 September 2006 (UTC)


Marching band term? SemperBlotto 06:53, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Um, excuse me...[edit]

I think it is very silly to include larva in the category "baby animals," larva aren't technically babies because babies are cute and larva are gross. This should be terribly apparent now that you have heard my opinion on the matter. - theLarvaeAren'tBabiesBrigade 03:27, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I disagree - that's a wholly chordatacentric point of view. Are newborn fish not baby fish? Is there such a thing as a baby octopus? Baby lobster? Baby spider? Larvae are babies to someone! bd2412 T 04:51, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
You, sir, appear to be a rabble-rouser and I reject your premise! Chordates have their a seafood buffet. Kindom mammalia is the greatest of all, a fact confirmed by an 11-0 vote in the commity held just now. You have been disproved, good day sir. - theLarvaeAren'tBabiesBrigade 04:59, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Request for protection[edit]

After searching Wiktionary namespaces and finding only a 'rejected' Protection Policy, I came to you as my welcomer. Could you tell me where to ask for permanent protection for Template:navpop? Since people use it to install javascript, it could cause some serious mischief. w:Template:navpop is permanently protected. --Hroðulf 21:06, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Page is now protected. Could you please tell me what the Wikipedia equivalent request page would be? I'll go ahead and start one here. --Connel MacKenzie 06:26, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

WOTD through Oct 31[edit]

Between Connel and myself, all the WOTD entries are selected through 31 October now, and are ready for any sound files that might be needed. Thanks again for all this work you contribute! --EncycloPetey 03:41, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I do try to vary selections, and whenever possible add an IPA pronunciation right away to weird words. Glad to know that the audio is already done. My only regret is that I haven't yet gotten an .ogg file to play on any of the computers I use, so I never know what your audio files sound like! (Yes, I keep trying and yesterday tried downloading a plug-in for iTunes, but I still couldn't get any of the files to play.) --EncycloPetey 14:16, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

Dear Dvorty,

Thank you for signaling your confidence in my ability to act as a CheckUser for the English Wiktionary. Your vote means a lot to me. I deeply appreciate it.

You may not be aware, but the Meta: policy dictates that there must be multiple CheckUsers on any given project, or else none will be granted. Each must get 25 votes on their local wiki, as per Meta: policy, to be granted the CheckUser privilege.

I'd like to take a moment to endorse my friends and co-runners. Each of them offers different skills that, as a whole, complement the needs of the English Wiktionary.

  1. User:Uncle G has been an English Wikipedia sysop longer than he's been an English Wiktionary sysop. This year (2006) he has refocused his efforts outside of Wiktionary. He was dragged away from Wiktionary while cleaning up the tens of thousands of entries on Wikipedia that linked incorrectly to Wiktionary after the case-sensitivity change in June 2005. He knows Wiktionary very well. And he is very competent at focusing his efforts wherever they are most needed. He operated the original Transwiki: bot, before we had the Special:Import feature we have now.
  2. User:Kipmaster is a French Wiktionnaire sysop and bot operator who is very technically capable. He also is in Europe, making his hours of availability complementary to his American counterparts. He is active in WiktionaryZ imports and understands very well which data can be imported here, from there. He normally acts as our primary liaison to fr.wiktionary, whenever compatibility issues arise.
  3. User:Jon Harald Søby is a steward. As a meta: steward, he is the primary person we call on to perform CheckUser checks now. His availability is often limited, but his Central European timezone proves to be very, very useful on occasion. He has contributed extensively to Wiktionary over the years.
  4. User:Kelly Martin was recently called in to help perform CheckUser checks on the English Wiktionary. She is currently up for election also for the Board of Trustees of Wikimedia Foundation. (In the unlikely event she wins that election, she will no longer be available to pursue her CheckUser nomination here.) Since she also has CheckUser privilege on other sister projects, she is accustomed to the 'can's and 'cannot's of CheckUser procedures, in detail.

I hope you can take a moment to consider these fine candidates again. Your support means a great deal to them, as well as to Wiktionary's ability to perform its own CheckUser checks in a timely manner.

Thank you again, for your support.

--Connel MacKenzie 06:22, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Unusual modern Greek letters[edit]

¡Hola, Dvorty! In modern Greek, these letters => ϊ ΐ ϋ ΰ are used, too. Could you place them in MediaWiki:Edittools? ¡Gracias! :) --Piolinfax 11:38, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Are they really used in Modern Greek? — Vildricianus 16:03, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, they are. The two dots are a diaeresis, indicating that two vowels that are usually a diphthong are to be pronounced separately. For example, ει, which is pronounced /i/, would become εϊ, pronounced /ɛɪ/ (or maybe /eɪ/, I'm not sure which). Here are some examples I have found in my dictionary, each applying to a different diphthong: θεϊκός (/θɛɪˈkos/, "divine"); προϋπόθεση (/proiˈpoθɛsi/, assumption); χαϊβάνι (/xaiˈvani/, "beast"). Don't quote me on the exact pronunciations, though.
The symbols ΐ and ΰ are used when the tonic stress falls on the vowel carrying the diaeresis, although I have not found any examples of that.
I'll add these symbols. — Paul G 16:08, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
Done. — Paul G 16:10, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

mug shot[edit]

This image is up for deletion on commons. See WT:CT. --Connel MacKenzie 05:22, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up. I've replaced the image with another from Commons that looks like it might stay put. Dvortygirl 17:11, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

Hello, thank you for your welcome Dvortygirl 16@r 21:22, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

And the winner is...[edit]

File:Ferret in fedora.jpg
Ferret! In a fedora! Amazing!

For the successful completion of the audio of 1000 basic english words, we the Larva ain't Babies brigade have decided to present you with this image of a ferret in a fedora. thanks kindly, we anti-larvans have trouble with the basics once in a while. - theLarvaeAren'tBabiesBrigade 07:11, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

What's truly amazing is that I really didn't know I needed a ferret in a fedora. Sometimes, I still don't. I am glad to be done with that list, though. — Dvortygirl 17:32, 22 September 2006 (UTC)