User talk:Vahagn Petrosyan/Archive 2

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Script templates for Babel[edit]

I figured you might be interested in these :) Category:User scripts[ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 23:15, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Nice work! And very useful. --Vahagn Petrosyan 09:11, 10 May 2009 (UTC)


Note: on Wiktionary, we never specify "right" explicitly in file placement. the software does that automatically. --EncycloPetey 20:29, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

OK. --Vahagn Petrosyan 20:35, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Audio bot, again[edit]

Hello. Yes, my bot can add audio files to words on English Wiktionary automatically.

I have seen your audio and have some remarks. First of all, it is very silent. How do you record files? I suggest amplifying volume by 10 or perhaps even 15 decibels. In Audacity it's menu Effect -> Amplify; Audacity suggests how strongly amplify the volume. Secondly, your file is quite big: compare yours - 32 kB - and this one - it's 15 kB. It's absolutely enough to choose quality 4 or even 3 for when encoding human voice with Ogg Vorbis. You don't have to record your file one more time, but just remember about this in the future.

My bot also needs files put into proper categories. I've done it with your file. Greetings, --Derbeth talk 23:09, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Incorrect category[edit]

Yes, I have been looking for an admin to do that. I would appreciate your doing that. Thanks. --Chapultepec 00:37, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for your assistance, happy edits. --Chapultepec 00:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)


Hi. Atelaes thinks combining forms of Ancient Greek like -φαγία should not have independent entries, instead the full form should be used. See this discussion, for example. Do you disagree? --Vahagn Petrosyan 17:48, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

  • I am ambivalent over whether or not they need entries, I'll defer to Atelaes on that, but I do think they should appear in etymology sections if necessary. Otherwise it makes little would phagein become English phagy? Ƿidsiþ 07:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC)


Are you sure about زار being the right spelling for zar (dice) in Persian. I've been told it's زر but I can find neither in my dictionaries. --Vahagn Petrosyan 19:09, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

See Steingass. --Dijan 23:28, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Dammit, never learned to use that site. Thanks! --Vahagn Petrosyan 00:33, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


Привет, ты мог бы проверить мой перевод приветствия скоро появившегося посольства на русский язык здесь. Заранее спасибо. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 18:26, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Проверил. Сделал пару маленьких поправок, ну и немножко изменил по своему вкусу. --Vahagn Petrosyan 20:37, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Color schemes[edit]

Please don't unilaterally change these. You can adjust your monitor. Your changes made the template entirely white and a faint light grey on my screen. --EncycloPetey 23:58, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

OK, I'm going to open a discussion at the talk page and invite the creators/modifiers/main users of the template there. One of our monitors is lying to us. Let's see which one. --Vahagn Petrosyan 00:03, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
It's not an "either-or". Personal perception of color and vision is highly variable among individuals. Two people looking at the same monitor image at the same time from the same distance (etc.) may perceive the colors and contrast differently. Psychologists and neurophysiologists have written whole books on this. --EncycloPetey 00:06, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
I understand. Your and my perceptions are clearly very different, which is demonstrated also by our disagreement over Latin template colors (their green reminds me of sewer colors). Hopefully, the discussion will reveal a scheme which is favourably perceived by the majority. And I can live with it if it turns out to be the purple one. --Vahagn Petrosyan 00:17, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
Case in point. the Hungarian templates look blue to me. The Latin templates are also blue to me (between teal and cyan), modeled on a pigment used in mosaics at Pompeii. --EncycloPetey 00:21, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Tajik transliteration[edit]

Hi. I'm interested in contributing to Tajik. I was wondering which transliteration scheme do you use, if any? Personally I don't like any of these. You think we should create our own standard for Wiktionary? Particularly one that would transliterate: қ as q, ғ as ġ, х as x, ҳ as h, ҷ as j. --Vahagn Petrosyan 22:44, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi! I don't like any of those either. Your suggestion is what I've been using all along, with the exception of х as x, which I transliterate as kh (because I'm used to it from studying Persian for two years), but I am in favor of x for our Wiktionary standard. --Dijan 04:24, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Nice to hear. Then I'll draft a standard soon and show you. --Vahagn Petrosyan 04:33, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
I made Wiktionary:Tajik transliteration. Please see if you agree with it. Particularly, I am not sure about:
1) ғ as ġ, ğ or ǧ
2) х as x or kh
3) ъ as ʾ
You know better what's used for Persian and other Iranian languages, so please tweak as you find necessary. --Vahagn Petrosyan 05:15, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Thanks! Will do :D --Dijan 05:23, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


This should probably be named {{ang-noun-decl}}. The ISO code for Old English is ang, not oe, and the format "code-noun" is typical for inflection line templates, rather than for declension tables. --EncycloPetey 03:17, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I know. But I didn't make the template and it's already used by that name as a declension template. We need a bot to redo all those articles. I'll ask Opiaterein, he's bot is trained for that. --Vahagn Petrosyan 03:21, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

ts, c[edit]

Привет, после правки статьи девица я заметил, что Wiktionary:Russian_transliteration допускает и ts, несмотря на возможность перепутать его с тс. Ты который из двух вариантов предпочитаешь? The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 19:26, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Я предпочитаю c для ц и x для х (а не kh) по нескольким причинам:
1. Это соответсвует системе Scientific transliteration, которую используем для других славянских языков.
2. Славянские языки с латинским алфавитом используют c для передачи ц. Таким образом, однокоренные славянские слова в такой транслитерации будут похожи друг на друга, что полезно для сравнивания. Можешь убедиться на примере дѣвица.
3. Действительно, ts можно перепутать с тс. Поэтому я всегда за транслитерацию типа одна буква - > одна буква. Такая система позволяет воспроизводить оригинал со 100% уверенностью.
Единственный аргумент в пользу ts — это то что оно pronunciation-friendly. Тем не менее, я считаю всегда нужно транслитерировать как робот, не думая о произношении. Т.е. bol’šogo вместо bol’šovo для большого, и Erevan вместо Jerevan для Ереван. Пусть читатель сам разбирается в правилах чтения русского. Ну или пусть смотрит в раздел ===Pronunciation===.
Знаю, многие со мной в этом не согласны. Думаю когда-нибудь придётся всё это обсудить... --Vahagn Petrosyan 05:52, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Я согласен и разделяю это мнение. Но буквы ю и я можно передавать двумя буквами, ведь нигде не встретишь йа/йу (это справедливо и для болгарского). Однако... я не знаю можно ли встретить шч в русских словах? Я имею ввиду однозначность транслитерации щ (šč). Болгарское щ транслитерируется как št, а шт не существует таким (отдельным) написанием. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 16:42, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Я имею возможность электронного поиска сразу в десятках словарей. Так вот, парадигма *шч* выдаёт только слова веснушчатость, веснушчатый, горошчатый, Ишчан, кошчонка, сиводушчатый, черешчатый. Не думаю что в Scientific transliteration что-либо надо менять. Система хороша. --Vahagn Petrosyan 16:47, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

More Turkish Words[edit]

Hi! Yes, "zibil" means garbage, dirt in some parts of Turkey, but it's dialectic. It may also mean "fertilizer" and "watery mud". But as I said before, it's only used in some regions. And bizimdir, well it means "he/she/it's ours". I'll try to add it to "bizim", and show it in the declension tables. Cheers! Sinek 11:23, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Hello. Well I've never heard a word like "çalağac" or "çalagac". I know "küşneme" is the meat which is in the inner side of spine bones. Aha, "içli köfte" (literally "meatball with inside"). İçli is used to describe that the meatball has something inside it. There's something with it, inside. I don't think that "içli" is common with this meaning in everyday speech except for içli köfte. But it may also mean gloomy as in "içli bir şarkı" (a gloomy song). I hope I could help you! Sinek 13:55, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
Done ;) Sinek 14:40, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
Hey! erişgi, erişgin, irişgi, irişgin, irişki, erişki and irişkin are all true but as you said, they're all dialectal. The common words are "sosis" (sausage) and sucuk. Sinek 17:42, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Anytime. It means "meat sucuk". Not that confection made from walnuts; but the dry, spicy one. Sinek 19:04, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

hu-decl color[edit]

I left a message at {{hu-decl}}, please take a look. Thanks.--Panda10 00:06, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I've noticed that the grid disappeared in the tables and I find it a little hard to read it this way, especially because the words are no longer close to the header column (they are now centered). Can you add the grid back? Also, I think the 40% width was better. Thanks. --Panda10 00:29, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
My mistake. The declension table did not have the same grid as the conjugation table and this is what I compared it to. I just looked at the Hungarian Wiktionary version (a copy of ours) and it does not have a grid, either. [1] How does this color appear on your screen? It's a lighter blue than ours was. I think the 40% width will help. --Panda10 01:23, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
hu.wikt's colour looks like a lighter version of what we had. And what we had was not blue, which is a nice colour, but "lilac mist". Just Google its colour code, E0E0FF. I like the current green very much. --Vahagn Petrosyan 02:07, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


Hi, where did you find pastae as an adjective meaning "doughy, pasty, pulpy, mushy"? I can only find it as a noun meaning pasty in the sense of a meat pie. Angr 12:49, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I found it from one Irish-Polish dictionary. It translates pastae as 1. ciastowaty 2 papkowaty, which are adjectives with those meanings. However, now that I look more closely through it, I find this dictionary quite fishy, I shouldn't use it anymore. Please, correct the entry. --Vahagn Petrosyan 13:14, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
That sounds like a good idea. They probably found "pasty" as the definition of pastae in an Irish-English dictionary, and misinterpreted which meaning of "pasty" was intended. Angr 15:36, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Little move for the accent templates[edit]

I hope you don't mind me moving {{accent:Eastern Armenian}} and {{accent:Western Armenian}} to {{accent:hy-E}} and {{accent:hy-W}}. I think less typing is always a good thing. :) The redirects are in place, so entries that used them before will still display correctly — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 23:23, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Sure, no problem. By the way, before {{accent:Eastern Armenian}} I used {{a|Eastern}} for a while without creating corresponding {{accent:Eastern}}. Do you mind running your bot to replace {{a|Eastern}} and {{a|Eastern Armenian}} with {{a|hy-E}} everywhere? Looking at this I see that nothing will be broken, I'm the only who used "Eastern". --Vahagn Petrosyan 23:38, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
I'll see what I can do with the scripts Conrad's written for me, but I can't promise they'll work for Template:accent:Eastern. They should, but I dunno... I guess we'll find out :D — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 23:51, 18 June 2009 (UTC)


Thank you for your assistance with the vandalisms on my page by Gremlink (whoever that is). I see he was vandalising Sarefo and others with obscenities. Please keep an eye on him and apply the strictest rules. --B. Jankuloski 08:24, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Don't worry, he's blocked indefinitely. --Vahagn Petrosyan 08:28, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

A help[edit]

Hello Vahagn! How are you? Well, I need a personal help from you. If you have time, can you please translate a short dialogue into Russian for me? Thanks in advance! Cheers! Sinek 17:14, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh, sure. Where is the dialogue? --Vahagn Petrosyan 17:17, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Ah, thanks a lot. Here it is:

A: How pretty! Who are they?
B: Thank you very much! They are my best friends.
A: And, where were you? It looks like you’re having so much fun!
B: It was Sasha’s birthday party. Yes, we certainly had tons of fun! It was a surprise and fortunately she couldn’t notice anything til the last minute! Hehe!
A: Ah, tell her “happy birthday” for me! Anyway, byes!
Sinek 17:19, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

A: Как мило! Кто это?
B: Большое спасибо! Это мои лучшие друзья.
A: А где ты был? Похоже ты отлично проводишь время!
B: Был Сашин день рождения. Действительно, мы вдоволь повеселились! Это было сюрпризом и к счастью она до последней секунды ничего не заметила! Надо же!
A: А, ну так передай ей мои поздравления! Что ж, пока!
--Vahagn Petrosyan 17:35, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Ayy, mersi a lot! Hmm "the photo" is pretty. Sinek 17:39, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Thanks a lot again! Cheers! Sinek 17:47, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

noun forms[edit]

Hi again, I, personally, think that when creating multiple form of entries one after another it's better to just type something short in the edit summary e.g. "n" (standing for new) and mark the edit as minor. this way recent changes will not be flooded with multiple edits that sport summaries spanning two lines each. 50 Xylophone Players talk 17:49, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

If the page is new, you can mark the edit as minor, but it's generally not encouraged to use an edit summary for new pages, even if you're adding inflected forms.
btw, Hi V :) — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 17:52, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
I know that, you geniuses. Didn't bother to mark anything, as my "form of" entry creating sprees are very rare and reserved for words with popular inflected forms. Bear with occasional floodings; ticking is long :) --Vahagn Petrosyan 18:03, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


Hi, I like you to like me to have inserted a passage into your edit of undulate#Etymology. Cheers. --nemo 12:37, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if I like your edit or not. What's more important is that they be confirmed by authoritative sources. All major English dictionaries say the word is derived from undulatus, from unda. Merriam-Webster and American Heritage Dictionary additionally mention an intermediate diminutive *undula. Your *undulare is nowhere to be found, except in the etymology of undulant in w:Oxford Dictionary of English which says: "mid 19th cent.: from Latin undulant- ‘moving like a wave’, from the verb undulare" --Vahagn Petrosyan 15:56, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
undulare would be an infinitive of, I think, undulo. Undulatus would be the past participle. So they're all interrelated, but I don't know anything about the derivations or anything. EncycloPetey links back to the present first-person singular (which like I said, I think would be undulo). So there's that :) — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 16:29, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
Yes, but neither *undulo nor *undulare are attested; undulatus and unda, on the other hand, are. The question, thus, is to reconstruct the derivation path from unda to undulatus. Most dictionaries do not mention anything between those two, some postulate an intermediate *undula and no one *undulare. If our Korean friend can find a reliable source with *undulare, then it can be mentioned along with *undula. Otherwise he'll just get reverted. --Vahagn Petrosyan 16:40, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, given the meaning, I doubt most forms of the hypothetical undulo were ever used... *shrug* — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 16:54, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
  • Perhaps undulō is some Medieval Latin coinage, that cannot be found in Classical Latin dictionaries? Searching on b.g.c you do get some hits; e.g. [2] lux per ipſum difuſſa videtur quasi undulare "through witch light can bee seen as if undulating". --Ivan (ⰃⰎⰀⰃⰑⰎⰅⰞⰉ) 17:35, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Level of Synonyms[edit]

Thanks for the reminder and sorry to put you to the trouble! I've been off-line for few months! —Saltmarshαπάντηση 16:40, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

No problem. --Vahagn Petrosyan 16:46, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

RE: Formatting[edit]

Ah, thank you very much. I've noticed that I really wasn't paying enough attention to all these. I'll create articles according to these after this :) See you! Sinek 21:17, 14 July 2009 (UTC)


Это не современный грузинский слова. Я также не знаю, что это слово означает. Тигр по Древногрузински означает "ვეფხი" (в современном - ვეფხვი). Чубинашвили пишет, что "ვიგრი" - большая ящерица. Я приведу вам один совет: пожалуйста, не пишите о "ვიგრი", потому что мы, грузины, не используем это слово. Существуют и многие другие грузинские слова ... Если вы можете говорить грузинский, пожалуйста, напишите о них. Пожалуйста, простите меня за мое плохое знание русского языка. Dato deutschland 10:42, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Eurovision Song Contest[edit]

How do you type out "Eurovision Song Contest" in Armenian? All I see is Եվրատեսիլ but I think that only means Eurovision. Let me know please. Thanks! Mike Halterman 20:30, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

I added Եվրատեսիլ երգի մրցույթ to Eurovision Song Contest, though just Եվրատեսիլ is much more common. --Vahagn Petrosyan 20:55, 17 July 2009 (UTC)


The heading says Avar but it's categorized as Karachay-Balkar. Which one did you mean? -- Prince Kassad 23:23, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Karachay-Balkar. хъанч is Avar. Thanks for noticing. --Vahagn Petrosyan 00:08, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


how2know when2ad context-tag pl?isthere alist orso?--史凡 - Please also use skype: sven0921 as I suffer RSI and thus cannot type very well! 04:57, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

See Help:Context labels and Wiktionary:Context labels. The list of context tags can be found at Category:Context labels. Hope this helps. --Vahagn Petrosyan 05:07, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

== 悶熱 ==

how2know when2ad context-tag pl?--史凡 - Please also use skype: sven0921 as I suffer RSI and thus cannot type very well! 05:03, 20 July 2009 (UTC)


Hello, My dad is a Kurdish linguist, but unfortunately he is only familiar with the Sorani dialect. I will ask him about xaç early tomorrow morning.
As for a reference, unfortunately I only have my father's draft dictionary. This dictionary is mostly Sorani Kurdish and contains sporadic Kurmanci words. A good reference site is, but it does not indicate which dialect the word is. For example, it shows the translation of good to be باش, چاک, and خاس without distinguishing that the last translation is Meriwani/ Xaneqíni. Gbeebani 05:48, 25 July 2009 (UTC)


ps tx4'context'help2!!--史凡/Sven - Pl also use MSN/skype as I suffer RSI and so cannot type very well! 14:50, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Sure. No problem. --Vahagn Petrosyan 14:51, 25 July 2009 (UTC)


Hi! Well, I found it on Turkish Language Association's official websitge. ( It's written "Far. h¥c" there, "Far." is the abbreviation for "Farsça" which means "Persian" and h¥c is the transliteration of the Persian word. It also says haçvari is from Persian origin as well, but unfortunately I couldn't write that Persian word with Arabic letters. ( Sinek 15:02, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

I have an earlier version of Güncel Türkçe Sözlük ve Yazım Kılavazu Yoğun Diskte downloaded from Turkish Language Association's official site: it has exactly the same definition, except it says "Erm." in the origin. They have changed the etymology meanwhile, apparently because someone doesn't like the fact that Turks borrowed words from Armenians, which is sad and pathetic. Here you can see an extract of Armenian borrowings from this dictionary still containing haç in it. --Vahagn Petrosyan 15:42, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
Oh, I see. I don't have that earlier version so I just checked it from the present dictionary. Dammit! That's really pathetic and kind of stupid :/ Anyway, thanks a lot for information. Cheers! Sinek 16:06, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
This is the website to check: [[3]]. The author (Sevan Nişanyan) is a Turkish ethnic Armenian and a frank intellectual, his dictionary is overall reliable. There seems to be a genuine doubt on the subject: in unspecialised dictionary entries, it is customary to cite the direct source of borrowing, not the ultimate etymological source. The word could be a Persian loanword as far as Turkish is concerned, the Persian word itself deriving from or being cognate with the Armenian one. Yet it could also be the case that the TDK is being nationalistic, which possibility I am not excluding as we have seen many instances of that in the past. Let us just not be too hasty to reach conclusions. -- 09:17, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
Fair enough, I added borrowing via Persian to the etymology of haç as an alternative. And, yes, Nişanyan's dictionary is great; I use it all the time. And I suspected he was Armenian. If you have references that the Persian word is a cognate rather than a borrowing from Armenian, we can add that version too. --Vahagn Petrosyan 13:53, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

event horizon[edit]

I have no idea how to say this in Armenian, do you think you could add it? :) — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 19:15, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

You're lucky I've been trained in physics, otherwise there would have been no way of translating it into this god-forgotten dictionaryless language :-/ --Vahagn Petrosyan 19:35, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
There's a...somewhat ok Hippocrene dictionary that I actually have. But who would expect to find specialized physics terms in it? lol... My friend who's supposed to be helping me learn Hebrew never really talks to me in Hebrew, so it seriously impedes the learning process. Maybe I'll go back to Armenian. — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 19:49, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
May I ask: what made you learn Armenian in the first place? Do you pick languages randomly? :) --Vahagn Petrosyan 19:53, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
I seem to find the ones I like randomly, but I do discriminate some :) To begin with, I really like the Armenian alphabet. It's like magic looking at it :D I also like the way it sounds, which is normally all it takes to make me want to learn a language.
On another note, as a personal favor, could you translate a phrase for me? I've been wanting to draw myself a tattoo that incorporates the phrase "Heart and Head work as one" (heart not in the physical sense, but the "emotions" way, and head as in mind, work as in function or operate) in Armenian, but that Hippocrene dictionary I mentioned? Pretty useless in this case. So I figured I'd ask you. :) — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 20:00, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
I too like how it sounds; especially š, č, x, ž sounds in Middle/Old Persian borrowings like աշխետ (ašxet), դժբախտ (džbaxt), բժիշկ (bžišk), Վահագն (Vahagn).
On the tattoo, I'd say this is the best translation: Սիրտն ու Միտքը գործում են միասնաբար. --Vahagn Petrosyan 20:33, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
Thanks man, you're the best :) — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 20:55, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Persian entries[edit]

Hey! Just wanted to ask you to be careful when entering Persian entries from the Steingass dictionary. There were quite a few reforms in Modern Persian since this publication, mainly the usage of words, context, dialectalisms, regionalisms, but also non-preservation of Arabic spellings. I'm specifically referring to the "ta'a marbuta" (or the rounded ta), which is not used in Modern Persian, but is preserved in this particular dictionary and a few older ones that I've seen. Also, Modern Persian does not have short vowels "i" and "u". They became "e" and "o", respectively and should be transcribed as such. --Dijan 09:40, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Ah, thanks for the heads-up. --Vahagn Petrosyan 10:53, 30 July 2009 (UTC)


Hi! As far as I know, باز (bâz) is the present stem of the verb باختن (bâxtan) (to play). It is not a noun in itself, however in compound nouns, it is used as a second part of the compound to mean "one that plays with". It was taken into Ottoman Turkish with the same meaning and same usage (as a part of the compounds), which was passed onto Modern Turkish as well. --Dijan 04:48, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

No, I haven't been able to find anything on "čalaġaj". I'll keep looking. I wasn't able to find much on "kandrbaz", either. If you look on Google Books, the only thing that shows up is a reference to Azerbaijani. I don't have access to my Ottoman references at this time, but I will next week. It's just a guess, but if it is present in Ottoman Turkish, I think the spelling would be either قاندرباز or قاندیرباز (kandırbâz). --Dijan 22:50, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Just so I'm clear on this[edit]

Without a lot of trouble, can you understand someone speaking Western Armenian? I would think that with the differences in pronunciation and verb conjugation, and I think noun declension, that it'd be a bit of a bitch at least... So I was curious if you can understand them or if it's like...Lithuanian vs Samogitian. :) (I had wondered about this before, but of course everyone's favorite current vote made me more curious) — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 18:02, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I can understand literary Western Armenian with little effort. Even though phonetics, declension and conjugation are different, standard literary Western Armenian (based on Constantinopole dialect) and standard literary Eastern Armenian (based on Ararat plain dialect, where I live) are 99% mutually intelligible (Štambuk’s favourite percent :-)). I think that's because their lexis was standardized on the basis of Old Armenian. By saying some dialects of Armenian are mutually unintelligible I meant non-literary ones. Say, the Eastern Armenian dialect of Karabakh sounds like Swahili to me.--Vahagn Petrosyan 07:29, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
Would someone who was at around hy-3 for Eastern Armenian be able to make out what a Western Armenian was saying, then? With a little effort? — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 14:08, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
Yes, no doubt. Why, wanna learn? --Vahagn Petrosyan 14:11, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
I like Eastern Armenian a lot more, it just sounds nicer ^_^ I think I'd probably have kept on learning Eastern Armenian a while ago if the alphabet were easier to read. It makes my brain hurt a little lol — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 14:17, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Appreciation for your help[edit]

Dear Vahagn,

Hi, I should like to appreciate your help with my edits; it seems to be the beginning of another pleasant Armenian presence, and experience for me, besides many others in the past.

With regards, Sa'y 12:31, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


я ответил у себя. --Jaroslavleff 01:02, 18 August 2009 (UTC)


Բարեւ Վահագն ջան, շնորհակալ եմ ողջունումի և խրատների համար։ - Fedayee 22:58, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Բարև: Շատ հաճելի ա վերջապես ուրիշ հայ յուզեր ունենալ: --Vahagn Petrosyan 05:35, 20 August 2009 (UTC)


Hello. I couldn't find "purut" / "purud" / "burud" / "burut" in any of my Turkish or Ottoman Turkish sources. Also, there is a problem with the script in this Ottoman entry (I assume you copied it from somewhere). It is formated as LTR not RTL. Therefore, it's written backwards in broken up Arabic script. I didn't want to change it without first checking it, but I couldn't find anything. Usually my Ottoman dictionaries list dialectalisms and vulgarisms, but nothing. Googling the term, gives only one Kurdish reference as pürüd (borrowed from Armenian; the original origin being Hittite), but nothing in Turkish or Ottoman Turkish. --Dijan 16:22, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

God I hate Arabic script. Here, I scanned the piece of book from where I “copied” the Ottoman Turkish word. Please, fix the spelling to correspond to that. It says the word was used in Turkish dialects of w:Tokat and w:Erzurum. My source for modern dialectal Turkish purut was this. And thanks for finding the Kurdish borrowing. Because of that I searched and found this: the origin of Armenian բրուտ (brut, potter) is indeed Hittite. --Vahagn Petrosyan 17:26, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
I am so sorry. It was my fault. You entered the word just fine. I was using my friend's laptop to access the website and I forgot that his Arabic script is not set up correctly due to lack of fonts. Everything looks good :D --Dijan 17:25, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
That’s because Krun moved the entry to it’s correct spelling. --Vahagn Petrosyan 07:12, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 :) --Dijan 02:51, 24 August 2009 (UTC)


I saw your talk discussion in the Ararat page. Im just wondering, what is your thoughts on Armenian history and Indo-European homeland? Do you think Indo-European homeland is not in Anatolia/Armenian Highland, or you take the Kurgan and those Europe location views more correct? 17:35, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Also, do you really think Herodotus is referring to Armenians being from Balkans, and not native to their homeland? Herodotus chapter 5 before chapter 7 says otherwise. He clearly says that Armenians are native, referring to them in the correct location east of Euphrates east of Cilicia, "the Armenian lands" as he says. 17:37, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

And as far as what they say about Urartu(Ararat) / Bianili(Van), the Armenians were always native there, as we see Arme(Armani)-Shubria(Subartu), Nairi(Nahrin), and Hayasa(Hayastan-Hay) above Urartu(Ararat)/Bianili(Van). 17:58, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Can I get your answer please? 15:16, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I started to write one but got distracted and forgot. Will answer shortly. --Vahagn Petrosyan 15:17, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Ok 15:18, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

First of all I should mention that I’m neither historian nor a linguist. All I have is an own opinion based on more expert ones and on reading some primary sources. In short, I think the origin of Armenians is highly obscure and debatable. Here is an excerpt from the introduction to Old Armenian studies at the University of Texas:
According to Greek mythic tradition, Armenia was named after Armenus, one of Jason's Argonauts. Herodotus, writing in the fifth century B.C., states that the Armenians lived in Thrace and then moved into Phrygia, from which they crossed into the later Armenian territory. Strabo, writing in the first century B.C., states that the Armenians entered the territory from two directions, one group coming from Phrygia in the west, the other coming from Mesopotamia in the southeast. Although by neither account were they the original inhabitants of the region, Xenophon records in 400 B.C. that they seem to have absorbed most of the local dwellers.

Armenian tradition, recorded between the fifth and eighth centuries A.D., relates the Armenian people to the descendants of Noah. After the Flood, Noah's family settled in Armenia before moving south to Babylon in successive generations. One of Noah's descendants, Haik, revolted and returned to Armenia, pursued by the Babylonian Bel. Haik killed Bel and became ruler of the Armenian land, and the descendants of Haik later defended Armenia from the forces of Assyria.

Modern scholarly views are just as wide-ranging. A common view is that the Armenians were of Indo-European stock and entered the region either along with the Phrygians from the Balkan region or with the Mitanni from the area of the Aral Sea. They encountered the Urartuan culture in a period of decline and eventually came to rule over them and other Caucasian groups in the region. Another theory draws on linguistic similarities between the Armenian language and the Caucasian languages of the area to say that the Armenians had originally been themselves a Caucasian tribe which adopted an Indo-European tongue, and this Caucasian substrate is responsible for the fact that Armenian is rather genetically isolated among the Indo-European languages. Yet another theory is that the Armenians are the most sedentary members of the original speakers of Proto-Indo-European; that the Indo-European languages originated in the transcaucasian region, but the Armenians, who chose not to migrate out of the area, were marginalized during periods of Hittite and Urartuan dominance. Suffice it to say, the true origin of the Armenian peoples will remain shrouded in obscurity for some time to come.
I think the Phrygian tradition has to be somehow accounted for to satisfactorily explain the origin of Armenians. If Herodotus says Armenians were Phrygian settlers, that should mean something. He was talking about a nation (Phrygians) which every Greek knew closely and was unlikely to confuse. But I don’t think these Phrygians or Phrygian-related tribes (namely, Mushki) constituted the bulk of Armenian nation. Instead, I think they passed on their Indo-European language to a local population of Hurrians/Urartians and Luvians and merged with them (this is Diakonoff’s view). The fact that proto-Armenian was not the native tongue of locals may explain the fact why Armenian has undergone such weird changes in comparison with other Indo-European langauges. I mean stuff like Proto-Indo-European *dwó giving երկու (erku), the fact that tons of Armenian words remain unetymologized and that, for example, of all colour names only “yellow” is native Armenian.
So, yes, part of Armenians may be from Balkans, another part — locals from Armenian Highlands, but, mind you, this has no effect on justification of territorial claims. None whatsoever. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Do you honestly think Turks will return historical Armenia if you push back the autochthony of Armenians by few more thousand years? Isn’t 2500 enough? I wish Armenians would grow up and realize the only thing that matters, always had, are tanks and the boot of Armenian soldier. And instead of drawing historical maps, hanging Tigran’s empire from toilet doors, fighting Azeroturks in Wikipedia, crying on Westerns’ shoulders about our tragic history, perhaps we could elect normal non-corrupt officials, have normal schools and universities, develop normal economy, eradicate the mafia, educate the population of hillbillies, build a technologically advanced army and then demand lands and not beg for them, “pretty please, we were here before”. No one cares... --Vahagn Petrosyan 16:40, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

You didnt answer my questions above. I said where do you think the Indo-European homeland is. There are also placed in Anatolia/Armenian Highland if you were not aware of that? Also, I mentioned Herodotus chapter 5, which he says Armenians are native to their land. Herodotus did not say anything in his writing of what you wrote earlier from Thrace etc. He said that Armenians were colonists of Phyrgians, meaning from their land they were colonist, like many other examples of more recent history with Russia example. Also, after that he says both these "nations" distinguishing the neighbhoring nation. Lastly, they were said by Josephus and others that they are from same ancestor Togaramah, just as Georgians were. 17:09, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

I am aware of the w:Armenian hypothesis of Indo-European homeland. It could be true, but I favour the Kurgan hypothesis, simply because it is the mainstream version and I have no means of judging.
By saying Armenians are Phrygians, Herodotus automatically says Armenians came from Balkans, because Phrygians came from Balkans, and there is no doubt about that.
I dismiss Josephus’ genealogy based on Old Testament as unscientific.
I stand by my opinion that the question of Armenians’ origin remains open. --Vahagn Petrosyan 17:30, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

So you dont think Armenians will get their land back? If you look at the history more closely, you will see before Urartu(Ararat)Van kingdom, there was Indo-European existance, if they say Urartu is not Indo-European. The previous states-kingdoms-tribes, were Indo-European, Mitanni, Hittites, Hayasa is most likely also. And lets not forget the links of Kuro-Arax culture with Mitanni from 3rd millenium BC, which also has Indo-European mentioned. And what if sometime in the future the answer will be more clear that Armenians are native? New archeology finds? What if that "does" matter? 17:33, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

So you favor Greek historians with one or two sentences about Armenians, but not Movses Khorenatsi?

By the way, you got it wrong again, Herodotus did not say "Armenians are Phrygians" (there are many people who were colonists of other nations, that doesnt mean they are hte same nation, Herodotus said "both these nations"), I have read the original. I have also found 19th century opinions on Herodotus, metioning of the Indo-European colonisation went "westward" from "Armenia" to Phrygia, Phrygian to Europe. This was the view of that time that Phrygians seperated from the Armenians, not the "other way around". That Greeks originally were in "Anatolia", the Greek name as you see, then went from there. 17:43, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

No, I don’t think Armenians will ever get back their lands from Turkey. It’s sad, but I don’t see the potential in this nation to rise up to that task. And I honestly fail to understand what nativeness has to do with that? Turks came here in the 11th century from Altay, when Armenians and Greeks already lived here for thousands of years. Everybody knows that, so what? If it turns out we are from Balkans, what, are you going to demand our historical Bulgarian lands? Homo Sapiens originated in East Africa 200,000 years ago, means we all can claim Ethiopia? I repeat again, you want something, you get it by force, like Israel or like we did in Karabakh. Of course it’s one thing to beat the crap out of pussies like Azeris and another taking on the Turks... --Vahagn Petrosyan 17:48, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Try to answer my questions directly. I said you favor Greek historians 1 or 2 sentences over Movses Khorenatsi?? 17:50, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

So you dont even seem to believe in God, as if chaos will rule forever, cause thats what it seems you are saying? There will not be divine interventions?

Your answer: "First of all I should mention that I’m neither historian nor a linguist"

Yes thats why you dont understand the word and "meanings" of AR-AR-AT, AR-AR-ATZ, AR-AR-ICH. I dont even want to go over this again with Hebrew -> A-R-R-T <-- that is the Hebrew, not our 'AR-AR-AT', lets not forget the English 'ERRORAT' Just cause we dont have older records of our languages, like Indo-Iranians and Greeks, doesnt mean you automatically say Ararat is a Hebrew word. Only ignorant people who dont understand will say that. Not only are those ARAR words (and they have meanings not going to go thgourh that), in Armenian, but they are all prounounced the same ARAR, not Eror, or ARRT like in Hebrew which doesnthave the AR-AR-AT, they wrote with rrt, etc. 17:57, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Don’t you have anything else to do? Hunt a Turk or something? --Vahagn Petrosyan 18:04, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

You dont seem to be an Armenian. You have seen the falsifiers video if you type in google "Armenian history" it shows up there. If you havent seen it, Im sure you have, and you seem to follow after this people that are falsifying our history. You seem to be half Armenian like Eupator. 18:17, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

You think im not aware that other people have learned Armenian, and make up Armenian names? Even if you are Armenian, you are not one from inside. You are in the darkness, not seeing the light of Arev (Sun), yes its AR-ev etc etc. AR-AR-AT, AR-MAN-IA land of hte children of LIGHT not Darkness 18:19, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

If you know just a little about God who said "let there be light" and AR-AR-ICH the "Creator", as we call him, So AR-AR-ICH "created" AR-AR-AT , the place of AR-AR, the place created, the paradise etc. 18:21, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Vahagn, am I also right that you dont believe the Bible historically accurate? That the Near East was not the table of nations? after the flood the rebirth of life? As we see its the table of nations (dont forget also Babylon-Shinar the languages/nations mentioned were there and God scattered them from the Near East), not just the table of Semetics (Shem), so "Indo-Europeans" are also there from the beginnings, so what is your view on the Bible then? 03:45, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Is this guy serious? What a scary mofo lol
Vahagn, you sir, are a winnar :D — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 13:15, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
Whoa, I hope not serious :D Ouch! and so scary as well! Hunt a Turk or something? Vahagn, you're going to have me faced with the danger of extinction by this guy :D Sinek 14:56, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
Run and hide, evil Turk, run and hide, 'cause me and my IP friend are coming to kick your barbarian ass back to Altai. Or take you prisoner and make you edit Wiktionary from in our basement all day long; haven’t decided yet :D --Vahagn Petrosyan 20:35, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
Urgh, that's gonna hurt! xD Sinek 20:39, 28 August 2009 (UTC)


გამარჯობა, user page-ზე ვნახე, რომ ქართული გცოდნია, ამიტომ ქართულად მოგესალმე. :) --Ketie 20:08, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I do not understand what you said. The only two things I know in Georgian are me ver vlaparakob k’artulad and me šen mixvarxar. I can read Georgian though and have created many Georgian articles for words borrowed from Armenian: Category:ka:Armenian derivations and vice versa: Category:hy:Georgian derivations. By the way, we have no Georgian contributors on Wiktionary yet, so your edits are very much appreciated! --Vahagn Petrosyan 07:23, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
See also Special:Contributions/Ketie?namespace=1. I don't want to RFV these entries, because we don't have any Georgian contributors, so that's not going to end productively, but I don't know how else to handle a case like this. Could you maybe take another look? Thanks in advance! —RuakhTALK 13:02, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
Right, don’t RfV those. I will provide references shortly. These entries are vaild obsolete/archaic/rare words Ketie doesn’t know about. --Vahagn Petrosyan 14:42, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
All taken care of. --Vahagn Petrosyan 18:45, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
Great, thank you very much! —RuakhTALK 20:03, 28 August 2009 (UTC)


Check this declension for me :D I don't remember if the adjective does anything special or not - սև խոռոչ (sew xoṙočʿ) — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 00:47, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Fo shizzle, my nizzle. --Vahagn Petrosyan 07:44, 26 August 2009 (UTC)


and a few others ... they have the Latin æ ligature, not the Cyrillic. (I noticed while looking at all-pages starting from the Latin character.) Don't know how much of this there is; I shot an entry for Serbian (IIRC) that had Cyrillic and Latin o in the same word; the correct entries were already there. Robert Ullmann 15:26, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

I know about that. See the discussion at WT:RFV (I can’t link directly; search for “чăваш чĕлхи”). The problem is that Ossetians use both Cyrillic and Latin æ ligatures on the Internet (the Latin more often; compare hits for Latin æфсæн and Cyrillic ӕфсӕн). I don’t know what’s the right thing to do in this situation. Perhaps it’s creating the entry in all Cyrillic and redirecting part-Latin ones to those. --Vahagn Petrosyan 18:36, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
I think that is just about right: the entries should be consistently all Cyrillic, and the mixed ones should be redirects. I wasn't aware that this "confusion" (an inherent problem in UCS, cf. mu v micro etc, but one I understand the reasons for ;-) was common in usage, that info is very useful. Robert Ullmann 23:42, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
I’ll start moving entries when I have time. --Vahagn Petrosyan 08:48, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Novellám számiul[edit]

I don’t know whether you might be interested in translating three short paragraphs into Armenian. Eino is trying to get it in as many languages as he can. The three paragraphs (already translated into English and Russian) are here: hu:w:Szerkesztő:Eino81/Novellám_számiul. —Stephen 13:53, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Added Armenian. Strange story. --Vahagn Petrosyan 15:21, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
Strange, but it's ready, and I thank it to you :) I have Armenian roots too and it was very important to me to have this in Hayeren :) hu:User:Eino81
Hay es? De nenc’ ara textd adrbeǰaneren t’argmanaç azikë čimana, t’e čē iran xaṙakiri kani :) --Vahagn Petrosyan 21:35, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
Hay em, but I don't speak the language, although I started to learn it again. :) --Eino81 10:12, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Հայաստանի Հանրապետություն[edit]

Hello Vahagn! I've been working on Armenian and Old Armenian words and suffixes on Turkish Wiktionary for a while, and while working on Հայաստանի Հանրապետություն, I saw that there was no declension table for it in English Wiktionary. So I wrote the words on my own, but I am really not sure. Can you please check the declension table here [4]? By the way, the noun cases are respectively nominative, accusative, dative, genitive, ablative, instrumental and locative. Thank you very much in advance! Best wishes, Sinek 14:05, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

I corrected your entry at Turkish Wiktionary. The words ending in -ություն (-utʿyun) have a special declension pattern. The reason why English Wiktionary doesn’t have a declension table for Հայաստանի Հանրապետություն (Hayastani Hanrapetutʿyun), is because I don’t think they are necessary for compound words and the table at հանրապետություն (hanrapetutʿyun) is enough.
By the way, I’m very glad that you’re exporting Armenian entries to Turkish Wiktionary. You could also export the whole of Category:Armenian declension templates and then just copy/paste the code from Armenian entries here without the hard manual work of filling in the tables. It would be nice if you mentioned in the first edit summary that the templates are coming from en.wikt. But don’t export the conjugation templates yet; I am going to rework and improve them.
Another tip: it’s important that you translate and export only correct entries. Before I came here there were some ~1500 Armenian words with many mistakes which I gradually correct now. To be safe, you could export only entries with declension/conjugation templates; those are 100% checked by me. --Vahagn Petrosyan 15:15, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
Oh, thanks a lot for your care. Well, the templates... I'm really untalented about creating templates :D I exported one (hy-noun-ություն) and I think it's OK now, but it really took a looong time for me to give it a good look :D :D And plus, I'm a newbie in Turkish Wiktionary, so I'm going to export these templates later :) It seems like I'll go on with copy-paste a little more :D Anyway, have a nice day and thanks again! Sinek 15:29, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
OK, then. Good luck and don’t hesitate to ask me if you have more questions about Armenian. --Vahagn Petrosyan 16:24, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Philosopher names[edit]

You may want to check out Wiktionary:Requests_for_verification#Xenophanes before you make any more. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 01:34, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

I saw that RfV and am aware of attributive-use rule. Still, I’ve been deliberately and purposefully ignoring CFI, because:
  • It's a bad rule. Anyone looking for Xenophanes will like short encyclopedic information along with etymology, pronunciation and stuff. Yes, we can and should send users to Wikipedia for more, but I can easily see large portion of readers being satisfied with short facts we provide and not willing to read Wikipedia.
  • All self-respecting dictionaries have entries for people like Xenophanes with some encyclopedic content and linguistic information. Namely, in my collection, Oxford Dictionary of English, Revised Ed.; New Oxford American Dictionary, 2nd Ed.; Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 11th Ed; Random House Webster's Unabridged Dictionary, 2nd Ed.; Webster's New World College Dictionary, 4th Ed.; American Heritage Dictionary, 4th Ed. Add to this xenophanean in Webster's Unabridged, 3rd ed.
  • We de facto have thousands of excellent entries de jure not-conforming to CFI. People add them, people read them, people love them (I do and I’ve seen comments in Feedback). Are you aware that half of Category:Ancient Greek proper nouns should be deleted because they are place names with no attributive usage?
Anyhoo, it’s my strong belief that WT:CFI should be rewritten, but I’m too lazy to get involved in red tape. This is why I’m going to shamelessly add entries like Thucydides and wait for someone else to legalize these one day. You can sew me, block me, vote me out in a Tribal Council, I don’t care :) --Vahagn Petrosyan 15:17, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

welsaid-bl*stiklers4moronic/RETROGRESIV CFI--史凡>voice-MSN/skypeme!RSI>typin=hard! 16:20, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Let me begin by stating quite clearly that I agree with you that we should have entries for Xenophanes and Thucydides, as well as our Ancient Greek proper noun section; however, I think I'll probably disagree with you on just about everything else. To start out, Xenophanes is a word.....a word in a language no less. That qualifies it for our project. However, it does not mean "pre-Socratic philospher" any more than Jesse means outlaw or embarrassing governor. There were probably plenty of folks named Xenophanes who weren't philosophers at all. In doesn't really mean anything, it's simply an empty reference. However, we have a rather good format for defining such definitionless words. Certainly it seems reasonable to note a famous instance of this word, but he really can't be its definition. The issue is that, when we start getting into encyclopedic content, we step into a realm which we are rather poorly equipped to handle, and should really avoid. The wikipedia template is so damned easy, both for editor and user, and Wikipedia does such a damned good job at explaining that particular instance of Xenophanes, that there's absolutely no need to get into it. Quite frankly, we should be focusing on what we're lacking in what we're supposed to be doing (etymologies, translations, cites) before we even consider duplicating what Wikipedia is doing. Perhaps some of your dictionaries (and rather respectable dictionaries no less) include encyclopedic info, but those dictionaries didn't have the magical ability to make the Encyclopedia Britannica appear magically open under the readers eyes, open to the exact right page, simply by pressing a spot on the entry. We have that magic ability. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 17:14, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
I have thought about handling Xenophanes and Thucydides as given names with {{given name}}, with mentioning famous bearers of those names (or even without that). That would certainly work for Ξενοφάνης (Ksenophanēs) and Θουκυδίδης (Thoukudidēs), because these were, indeed, given names used in Ancient Greece. But Xenophanes and Thucydides are not English given names as {{given name}} would suggest. They are not given to modern babies. In English they always refer to the Colophonian philosopher and Athenian historian, the way Armenia and Corinth always refer to the specific country and the city. I would gladly hear about a format not breaking CFI and allowing linguistic information like in Thucydides be entered into Wiktionary.
PS. Jesse Ventura is a great guy :) --Vahagn Petrosyan 18:25, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
Hmmm....that's a good point. However, I think my major point remains. If we were to discover a reference to a different person named Xenophanes, or if someone did, God forbid, name their child Xenophanes, neither would automatically be deemed a pre-Socratic philosopher, nor would we have to somehow adjust what Xenophanes means. Also, no one names their child Agnes anymore (ok, a small handful probably do, but that's almost as mean as Xenophanes), and yet it's still defined as a given name, and rightfully so. A non-productive given name is still a given name. That being said, I think it might be worthwhile to note these types of distinctions. Generally, I think that Wiktionary's policies on proper nouns are rather poorly thought out, despite the great amount of text written on the subject.
PS: Easy to say having never had him as your governor. :-) -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 19:47, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
"...I think that Wiktionary's policies on proper nouns are rather poorly thought out..." I agree 100%. Until such policies are devised I think the best thing to do is to stick to the formatting of Pliny. Thucydides, then, could be defined as "ancient Greek male given name", with the actual dude from Athens given below as sort of a "usage example". Perhaps, {{given name}} could be tweaked to generate the "ancient Greek male given name" text and to automatically categorize such names somewhere...
I remember 4-5 discussions on handling foreign given names in Wiktionary; none of them resulted in a consensus. --Vahagn Petrosyan 21:16, 5 September 2009 (UTC)


Hey! How is it going? Well I was just taking a look at Armenian nouns and noticed this one. I think there's a mistake in transliteration; I guess it must be something like čilingarjan. Can you check it out please? Sinek 17:39, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Plus can you take a look at алкаш? The declension table doesn't suit the one in Russian Wiktionary. Sinek 18:57, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for bringing those up. The transliteration mistake happens to me all the time when I copy-paste from my other entries. Also fixed алкаш. By the way, could you please keep an eye on Category:Turkish words needing attention? I put there Turkish words I create, which need expansion. --Vahagn Petrosyan 04:52, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
Sure. I'll do it right now. Have a nice day! Sinek 11:24, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
Hello again! Well, I need a help about declensions of Armenian words. How many different ways (or rules) to declense Armenian words actually? I've noticed that in բազկաթոռ, the ablative ending is -ից and instrumental is -ով. But in ծիրանենի, ablative ending is -ով while the instrumental is -ուց. It looks as though they've changed suffixes :D And I know that special rule fore words ending in -ություն. Soo if you could tell me about all of them, I'd be really glad. Thanks in advance! Sinek 13:17, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
Oh, fuck, wank, bugger, shitting arse head and hole! I can't believe I hadn't noticed that to this date. I fixed the botched templates, thanks a lot for finding. As for declension rules of modern Armenian, they are fairly simple, actually.
  • Rule 1: The declension slightly differs for things and persons. Namely, for things the accusative coincides with nominative, for persons - with genitive/dative. In Category: Armenian declension templates templates for persons are with -p-. Book, city, tree, communism are things. Dog, Uzbek, George, talking tree are persons.
  • Rule 2: Monosyllable words have -եր (-er) in plural, polysyllables have -ներ (-ner). Compare հայ (hay) and սալոր (salor). In Category: Armenian declension templates those are marked with -եր and -ներ. However, if the word is a compound and the last member of the compound is a monosyllabic word, again, the plural is with -եր (-er). Cf. ամերիկահայ (amerikahay).
  • Declension types: The declension types are named after the ending of genitive.
  • I'm sure you noticed the most common (~95% of words) type is (-i): բազկաթոռ (bazkatʿoṙ, armchair) -> բազկաթոռի (bazkatʿoṙi, armchair’s)
  • Then there's -ու (-u) type for all words ending in (-i): ծիրանենի (ciraneni, apricot tree) -> ծիրանենու (ciranenu, apricot tree’s).
  • -ան (-an) type, a remnant from Old Armenian. Found in few exceptions and in all words ending in suffix -ում (-um): երդում (erdum, oath) -> երդման (erdman, oath’s).
  • words ending in -ություն (-utʿyun) also belong to -ան (-an) declension, albeit with a little quirk, so that they need a separate template.
  • -ոջ (-oǰ) type for few words denoting kinship: քույր (kʿuyr, sister) - > քրոջ (kʿroǰ, sister’s).
  • -վա (-va) type for few words denoting time: օր (ōr, day) - > օրվա (ōrva, day’s)
  • -որ (-or) type for three words (father, mother, brother): հայր (hayr, father) - > հոր (hor, father’s)
  • Note 1: In words ending in (-o) and (-a), there appears -յ- (-y-) before the case ending: արքա (arkʿa, king) - > արքայի (arkʿayi, king’s)
  • Note 2: Some words lose the last vowel when declined: e.g. լուսին (lusin, moon) - > լուսնի (lusni, moon’s)
That's pretty much it. --Vahagn Petrosyan 16:50, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
Waow, thank you very much! You explained it very well, the rest is just learning the vocabulary... Haha, I wasn't even aware that it was a mistake! xD Thanks a lot again and have a nice day! Sinek 12:07, 15 September 2009 (UTC)


Thanx for the tips!
B9hummingbirdhoverin'æω 13:02, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Достоевский, Толстой[edit]

Hi Vahagn,

Stephen must be away. Do you know, which declension templates could be used for these two? I haven't created Толстой yet. Do I need to create a new one or it's better to give a manual declension this time.

Thanks. --Anatoli 01:07, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Privet, Anatoli. I made declension templates only for nouns and haven't sorted out the ones for adjectives yet. I plan to when lazy User:Opiaterein fixes his replacer-bot, so I could clean up our cluttered {{ru-adjective}} series. Hear that OPI? FIX YOUR BOT! --Vahagn Petrosyan 08:47, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
Привет, Vahagn. Надеюсь, что и я вставил правильный шаблон в статьи Победоносцев и Андреев. Ты мог бы проверить? The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 17:26, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
Да, Богорм, всё правильно. --Vahagn Petrosyan 17:33, 23 September 2009 (UTC)


Hello Vahagn! Well, I bumped into the word բանաձև and saw that its plural form is "բանաձևեր", while I think it'd be "բանաձևներ" as it's multiple-syllabled. Is it an exception, or is there anything else I don't know about? Best wishes! Sinek 11:08, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Good observation, but the plural form is correct. As I said above, if the word is a compound, such as բանաձև = բան + ձև, and the second word (ձև) is monosyllabic, than the whole word is treated as monosyllabic. Thus, you need to know the etymology to know whether plural is -er or -ner. --Vahagn Petrosyan 13:40, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

земство and земства[edit]

Thanks for creating entries for those two so soon after my requests for them; also, thanks for fixing my stupid mistake.  (u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 18:15, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Sure. I fulfill Russian noun requests immediately. Not so for adjectives and verbs yet. --Vahagn Petrosyan 18:24, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
IC. Why the differences in response?  (u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 18:32, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
Because verb conjugation templates are not available yet and adjective declension templates need to be cleaned up and I don't like creating entries without inflection. --Vahagn Petrosyan 07:52, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Understood. Fair enough.  (u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 08:56, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Random stuff[edit]

I left a couple presents for you in Category:Armenian words needing attention (hint hint), and Conrad helped me fix my bot, so Template:Hayeren is almost dead and we can keep on doin' switch stuff :) — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 16:00, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

This is great news. I'll come back to you with more findandreplace requests soon. --Vahagn Petrosyan 16:43, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

List of Armenian nouns lacking a declension section[edit]

here is the list you asked for. Took longer to learn enough SQL to get it done than I thought. — hippietrail 04:41, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Many thanks. I have more requests for such searches. Will ask you when I add the declension tables to these. --Vahagn Petrosyan 15:03, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
No worries. I think I've got categories working now too except that headings and categories don't have exact one to one mappings. I'm looking at pages that have Armenian noun headings but not categories and vice versa. I'll tag a few with {{rfc}} as I see you've already noticed (-: — hippietrail 17:09, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for welcome message[edit]

Jacob van Straten 21:23, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Wiktionary logo voting page[edit]

As you were one of the few people who has shown any enthusiasm for the logo vote, and you speak Russian, which is one of the languages that the logo vote page still needs translating into, do you think you could possibly do the translation? --Yair rand 19:00, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm very sorry, but I'm enthusiastic as long as I don't have to do stuff :) Hopefully one of other Russian-speaking fellows watching my talkpage will volunteer to do the job. Again, sorry. --Vahagn Petrosyan 19:03, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Don't worry about it, Wiktionary and Wikimedia have no shortage of translators. Thanks anyway. --Yair rand 19:07, 23 October 2009 (UTC)


Hello! Just wanted to point out the striking similarity between Kurdish ارض and Arabic ارض. Not so sure that Kurdish comes from Armenian, as it uses ض, a letter not part of the Kurdish alphabet, but an extension that accommodates Arabic borrowings. --Dijan 08:39, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

My source of Armenian derivation is aware of this striking similarity, nonetheless, he says it's from Armenian. Anyway, I expanded ety to include both possibilities. --Vahagn Petrosyan 12:26, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Armenian templates[edit]

Hello Vahagn. I saw that there aren't any possessive sections in the templates anymore. I wonder if there's something wrong with them as I copy them to Turkish Wiktonary as well. That'sd be great if you told me :) Thanks in advance, see you! Sinek 17:07, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi Sinek. Nothing is wrong with possessive declension templates. I decided to hide them like this because they are not that important but take up useful space. 1st person possession is always formed by adding -s at the end and 2nd person by adding -d, so the tables don't tell anything new. You can still export possessive sections, if you want; they are correct and not deleted, just hidden.
By the way, I also tweaked the templates to show the type of the declension at the top of the table. You may want to update the counterparts at tr.wikt. Or not; again, the changes are purely visual.
If you decide to update tr.wikt after all, you may want to add interwikis like this to help you jump from tr. to en. easily. --Vahagn Petrosyan 18:02, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Ah I see. Thanks for the answer. I'm going to update them as soon as possible. And, adding interwikis is an excellent idea, I've been kinda stupid til now :D By the way, do the other subject pronouns (like 3rd person singular, 1st person plural...) have no differences for possessives? No specific suffixes? Sinek 18:23, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Other pronouns never had and don't have corresponding special suffixes. We use pronouns մեր (mer, our), նրա (nra, his), etc., instead. I don't know if you know, but -s and -d are not used together with their corresponding pronouns, i.e. իմ (im, my) and քո (kʿo, your), but as an alternative to those. For example, you can say:
im ginin = my wine (n is the marker of definite form)
ginis = my wine
im ginis is wrong.
Originally, in Old Armenian, the suffixes -s, -d, -n meant "this", "that (near you)", "that (not near to any of us)", so:
ginis meant "this wine"
ginid meant "that wine (near you)"
ginin meant "that wine (not near to any of us)"
The first two became possessive suffixes in modern Armenian, the last one became the marker of definite case. --Vahagn Petrosyan 18:52, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Waow, thank you very much! It's really clear now! Regards, Sinek 18:54, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

خلد (Requested entries:Arabic)[edit]

Привет Vahagn (как по-русски?),

Для арабского я часто пользуюсь этим словарём: [5]. У خلد несколько значений, но как существительное читается "хулд". --Anatoli 00:27, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Привет, Анатолий. Мне нужно значение “крот” для խլուրդ-a. Пусть будет "хулд", если надо. PS. По-русски будет Ваагн. --Vahagn Petrosyan 11:47, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
Понял, спасибо, Ваагн. --Anatoli 17:56, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

çax, muχ ?[edit]

Привет, Ваагн. В армянском языке есть слово çax со значением ветка? Если так, можешь кинуть его сюда. Получается, оно родственно слову соха. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 20:51, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Есть. Щас пожру, вернусь и кину. --Vahagn Petrosyan 21:00, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Всё, кинул. --Vahagn Petrosyan 22:38, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Спасибо. А есть слово muχ или mχoy со значением дым? Я здесь написал его в скобках в виде комментария, раз проверишь его, можеш удалить комментарий. Оно родственно слову смага (смага - кстати, я не нашел это слово в нескольких словарях. Оно устаревшее?) и, согласно одному ученому, слову смуглый. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 16:08, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
Добавил muχ. А mχoy — это просто родитильный падеж. --Vahagn Petrosyan 21:42, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

А слово harkanem со значением ударять? Оно родственно слову прать, схр. прати/prati , слк. prať и болг. пера. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 21:29, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Да, есть в грабаре. Пишется հարկանեմ. В современном армянском имеет форму հարել (harel). --Vahagn Petrosyan 12:13, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

a kind of trivial request[edit]

Hi, could you please look at the deleted content at բանբեր a see if you can translate it? I'm just curious what the hell the anon. was on about. :) 50 Xylophone Players talk 21:15, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

He was advertising an Armenian alternative to Google. Crazy anons... --Vahagn Petrosyan 22:39, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Lolz ok ^^. 50 Xylophone Players talk 11:18, 30 October 2009 (UTC)


You left this with two Ossetian sections. Code "av" is Avar ... but I don't know what you intended? Robert Ullmann 12:44, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

I intended one Avar and one Ossetian, like now. Drawbacks of copypasting. --Vahagn Petrosyan 12:46, 3 November 2009 (UTC)


Բարեւ Վահագն ջան,

  • Արևմտահայերեն ել «խ» են արտասանում երբ ասում են «դեղձ» բառը։
  • Շնորհակալությունի «հ»-ն չեն արտասանում։
  • Իսկ ճիշտ եք լսել, «ր» ու «ռ»-ի մեջ տարբերություն չկա արտասանությամբ արևմտահայերենում։ - Fedayee 04:01, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
Շատ մերսի: --Vahagn Petrosyan 06:26, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Classical Armenian[edit]

Just stumbled upon this, thought you might be interested. --Ivan Štambuk 04:55, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Indeed, very interesting. Thanks for finding. --Vahagn Petrosyan 12:00, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

lemmata and translations[edit]

Please see WT:TR under the latest heading nāscor. --EncycloPetey 14:12, 10 November 2009 (UTC)


Hello Vahagn. Could you please take a look at this [6]. Does the template look good? I mean, names of the cases are true? Thanks Sinek 11:07, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, everything is correct. Well done. BTW, you should create çakal also here. --Vahagn Petrosyan 13:27, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks a lot. Plus, could you tell me how to say "mirror" and "tulip" in Armenian? Sinek 11:01, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
հայելի (hayeli) and վարդակակաչ (vardakakačʿ) or կակաչ (kakačʿ), respectively. You supposedly borrowed the latter as "kekeç" meaning a type of mustard-plant, but I can't find it anywhere. --Vahagn Petrosyan 12:08, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Hmm kekeç? I've never heard of this, and looked for some dialectal meanings but I only found that in some regions, it's said instead of kekeme (stuttering) but nothing about a flower. Thank you so much for the words, by the way. Sinek 16:34, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Vahagn, you may be interested in the fact that the river flowing through my home suburb in Sofia is called exactly Какач. It is ca. 35 km long and is a left tributary of the river Искър/Искыр/Oescus. Howbeit, it was interesting for me to learn the meaning of this word in Armenian. But I have no idea as to how its name evolved ot whether it has something to do with flowers. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 17:47, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
The river is visible on the map in the article about Искър/Искыр, centre-left. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 17:54, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
It's funny that կակաչ (kakačʿ) also means "a place with purling waters". Taking into account this and the fact that Armenians are Phrygians emigrating from the Balkans I declare Sofia a native Armenian land. Scooch over, Bogorm, I'm packing my suitcase. --Vahagn Petrosyan 18:18, 13 November 2009 (UTC)


Would you like to handle the cleanup of this new addition to our illustriously crap dictionary? :) — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 15:36, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Stupid anons. I hope SB catches and kills them all and burns down their anon capital. --Vahagn Petrosyan 16:05, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Lmao they don't do as much damage as regulars. Someone Carolina Wren thinks we shouldn't cover Cantonese, because it's a "dialect"... Ugh. — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 16:24, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

ثل (tel)[edit]

Just wondering if this is an error… I noticed that you use the letter ث (in Arabic /θ/, in Persian /s/). Shouldn't this all be a simple ت (tah). – Krun 10:55, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and Persian ثیلا as well. – Krun 10:56, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
Yes, they should. I suck at counting those tiny dots. That's why I put {{attention}} tag every time I create articles in Arabic. You might want to check out Category:Persian words needing attention, Category:Kurdish words needing attention and Category:Ottoman Turkish words needing attention. --Vahagn Petrosyan 11:29, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Translations on FL terms[edit]

The point of having something like this is to link among terms expressing the same concept ("translation" would be too strong word here) but which cannot be expressed in English by means of words and hence there is no English-language entry where these could appear as a translation and link among one another. These are often non-cognate terms so they can't be mentioned in the respective etymologies, but some contributors think that it's nevertheless useful to have them because they often represent areal feature among geographically close languages (or simply it's good to have them as an additional comparative-learning device). --Ivan Štambuk 15:33, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Honestly, I think even FL entries should have translations: no one has to go to ja.wikt for translating from Japanese into German. We can add those when we have finished doing everything else, when we have every FL and en word defined with etys, pronunciations, synonyms and inflections, i.e. in 200-300 years, when y're all dead and I'm back on Olympus. --Vahagn Petrosyan 15:49, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
^_^ OK, but these non-translatable-in-English terms are special case. I don't think that all the FL entries should have translation tables (at least not manually maintained ones). Perhaps it would be the best to relocate these to some appendix or template whence it could be transcluded where applicable.. --Ivan Štambuk 16:00, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
The cases you are talking about were only two: and . I asked hippitrail to find all FL entries with Translations: they were here. --Vahagn Petrosyan 16:08, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Armenian translation[edit]

Hello Vahagn. I have a little translation request. Does հաղթանակս կորուստս է mean "my victory is my loss"? If not, could you please tell me the true translation for the English sentence and also this: "my victory is my disappointment" ? Thanks :) Sinek 19:24, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

True, հաղթանակս կորուստս է means "my victory is my loss". "my victory is my disappointment" is հաղթանակս հիասթափությունս է. --Vahagn Petrosyan 19:30, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks a lot! Sinek 19:32, 19 November 2009 (UTC)


It redirects to a red link; the only reason I deleted it. So the red link now needs a page. TY. Mglovesfun (talk) 14:07, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I know. I planned to return to that red link, but not now. It's in my to-do list. --Vahagn Petrosyan 14:10, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Solar System[edit]

You made the merger backwards. Since Solar System has only a single sense, it is better to use {{trans-see}} for the first sense of solar system than to link the other way round. --EncycloPetey 00:54, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

It would be even better if we deleted Solar System and treated it in solar system with the tag (usually capitalized). Duplicates like sun/Sun, god/God are a bad thing, IMO. --Vahagn Petrosyan 01:31, 28 November 2009 (UTC)


You disappeared, but I did it :) — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 01:58, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Here is your prize. --Vahagn Petrosyan 07:54, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Yaaaay! *happy pervert dance* — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 15:44, 29 November 2009 (UTC)


I would be grateful if you could add the Russian and/or Ukrainian words referenced in the etymology. – Krun 15:33, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

What's the meaning of those in Russian and Ukrainian? Did you mean дурь, дур and дура? I don't think they are connected with dúr. --Vahagn Petrosyan 15:50, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
The Russian was supposed to be “foolishness” (and it was дурь, not дуръ, my mistake), but the Ukrainian дура was supposed to mean “disorientation, dizziness” or something like that. – Krun 17:03, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Can't find anything on Ukrainian дура, sorry. If you have more such requests, prod me. --Vahagn Petrosyan 18:42, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Krun, Mzajac is a regular user and has written uk-3 in his Babel box. Perhaps he may provide the clue for the Ukrainian word. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 19:40, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
here on p. 118 in the file, and here on p.147 in the file. Proto-Slavic *durъ has several possible explanations, but it's probably not connected to the Icelandic word. --Ivan Štambuk 20:00, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Krun, could you please look up in the source where you found the kinship between dúr and дурь whether there is something said about kögurr and ковёр or koberec? I had a heated discussion to-day about that and I would appreciate your help, especially if the source was published in the last half a century. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 20:56, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, Bogorm, my source isn't certain about kögurr (more properly kǫgurr), but says it might be connected with kagi (PGmc *kag-), which is said to be related to Lithuanian žãgaras. No mention is made there about any connection with ковёр. As to dúr, I'm starting to doubt the connection… – Krun 21:53, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
No, please, don't... If it is sourced and the source is academic, then why recede and give way to the shadow of suspicion? The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 21:59, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Anyway, thanks for the effort regarding kǫgurr. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 22:00, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
The dative and plural forms of kǫgurr præserve the vowel, do they not? I moved it. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 22:02, 2 December 2009 (UTC)


Hi there. Can you add the hy and ru translations for this word to the translation table please? Thanks, Razorflame 06:51, 3 December 2009 (UTC)


Hi. Recently I spotted սեգ and its alternative section for the traditional spelling. What are your thoughts on allowing entries for traditionalist spellings like this, the Bulgarian spellings before 1945, which I am very fond of (spellings with ѫ, ѣ, ѧ or final -ъ) or the German spellings like Thal instead of Tal, rathen, rieth, gerathen instead of raten, riet, geraten, the -niß ending instead of -nis (before the reform from 1901). And Belorussian has also тарашкевица and наркомовка. Hopefully other editors will share their thoughts too. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 20:53, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Hi. I think the answer is obvious. CFI rules apply also to these traditional spellings. If they can be cited three times, they should be included. This means that you can and you should add traditional Bulgarian spellings under an ===Alternative spellings=== header with a note that it is a pre-reform spelling. The same goes for Russian pre-1917 spellings. Of course forms like интернетъ are not attestable and should not be included :). By the way, adding the traditional orthography to Armenian entries is not my fancy: it is still used by Armenian diaspora outside ex-USSR, which is more numerous than the population of Armenia. --Vahagn Petrosyan 21:16, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Category:Traditional Armenian orthography spellings[edit]

As I'm cleaning up spelling categories, I found a Category:Armenian obsolete spellings with no entries and a Category:Traditional Armenian orthography spellings populated. I'd like to know if you agree in merging these two categories; specially if, by chance, there are no other variations of Armenian obsolete spellings. --Daniel. 16:51, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Now that I think about it, the Category:Traditional Armenian orthography spellings belongs only in Category:Armenian alternative spellings. I deleted Category:Armenian obsolete spellings. --Vahagn Petrosyan 18:39, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Surb Çnund[edit]

Hello Vahagn! I wish you a merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! Շնորհավոր Նոր Տարի և Սուրբ Ծնունդ ! Sinek 20:32, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Awww, very sweet of you, Sinek. Only two notes:
  • Armenians celebrate Christmas together with Epiphany on January 6.
  • I am not Christian, I worship Quetzalcoatl. And I need to look up when is his birthday.
Nevertheless, thanks :) --Vahagn Petrosyan 21:43, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Great job[edit]

I think you are doing a great job in adding Georgian, Armenian, and Old Armenian entries to the English Wiktionary. I only wish that I could be as knowledgable about Armenian and Georgian as you are. Anyways, keep up the good work! Razorflame 00:19, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm an adulation-whore. That's true. --Vahagn Petrosyan 00:30, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
That's WOTD worthy Conrad.Irwin 00:38, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Really? I use it every day and consider an easy word. In your face, English speakers! --Vahagn Petrosyan 00:41, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

I do need to thank you for all the hard, excellent work with Armenian too, especially with the patience with the requested additions. ;) --Psi-Lord 15:42, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

No problem. --Vahagn Petrosyan 15:49, 8 January 2010 (UTC)


Just FYI, this reversion summary was my attempt at humour. In retrospect, that isn’t the least bit obvious.  (u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 10:55, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

No, no, I figured. By the way, you have a really creepy username. You too must drink a lot. --Vahagn Petrosyan 11:25, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Sorry for joining your conversation, but LMFAO. Cdhaptomos 23:47, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
ಠ_ಠ  (u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 12:44, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 :) --Vahagn Petrosyan 13:18, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Need Armenian spelling[edit]

Hi, can you please tell me the Armenian spelling (in the Armenian alphabet) of the name of the goblet drum--I think it is pronounced "dumbeg" or "tmpug" in Armenian. Many thanks, 09:26, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Sure, it's թմբուկ (tʿmbuk). --Vahagn Petrosyan 09:42, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

{{etyl}} for cognates[edit]

Note this; by specifying {{etyl}}’s second parameter as 2=- (e.g., {{etyl|xcl|-}} for Old Armenian), it doesn’t autocategorise, making it suitable for listing cognates. Just thought that might be useful for you to know.  (u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 16:14, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

I know that trick and use it for obscure languages. But not very often, too much blue is distracting. --Vahagn Petrosyan 16:16, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

diminutive categories[edit]

Hi, regarding this deletion of Category:German_diminutives by you. I just used {{diminutive of|Latz|lang=de}} on Lätzchen and that still automatically uses the category you deleted. How can we fix that? Mutante 18:19, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

You should add the part of speech like this.--Vahagn Petrosyan 18:24, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

More 'concise' entries[edit]

A question I've been intending to ask for a while, Vahagn. There are some Armenian entries (such as թագ (tʿag)) that bring a lot less information on the referenced word when compared to e.g. թագավոր (tʿagavor) regarding etymology, declension, pronunciation etc. Are they intended to be this concise, or could I add them to the requested entries list in order to have them expanded too? --Psi-Lord 14:57, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Sure you can add them. If an entry is concise, means I haven't got around to it yet. --Vahagn Petrosyan 15:07, 10 January 2010 (UTC)


Hi there Vahagn. I just wanted to let you know that there is a {{ka-noun}} template that can be used for Georgian nouns, so that you can use that instead of {{infl|ka|noun|tr=<..>}}. Cheers, Razorflame 03:59, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

He was around when I made that template. He's even made changes to it. — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 16:22, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
I wasn't saying that he didn't know about it, I was just telling him that it existed, because I wasn't sure if he knew if it existed or not. It was just a friendly tip, nothing more, nothing less. Razorflame 23:50, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
It's a long and uninteresting story why I don't use it, so I won't be telling it :) --Vahagn Petrosyan 16:34, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
I'd like to hear, maybe I can fixxit — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 18:22, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
No, you can't fix my laziness. Here's the story: I keep a pre-prepared dummy code for Georgian in my Opera notes, which includes a {{infl|ka|noun|tr=xxxx}} line. It could be {{ka-noun|tr=xxx}}, but then, as we don't have ka-adj, ka-verb, etc., I would have to edit it to {{infl|ka|xxxxx|tr=xxx}} every time I add Georgian non-nouns, which is long. Now, I could create ka-verb and the rest, but I’m lazy and our little brothers, Georgians, should learn to take care of themselves without us, Armenians. We gave them the alphabet, introduced to Christianity, taught how to make dolma and khachapuri. Enough is enough :D --Vahagn Petrosyan 18:41, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Lofl well since I don't know the principle parts for their words, I can just create simple stuff at those templates for ka-adj and ka-verb. :) — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 19:37, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
I'll do it. --Vahagn Petrosyan 19:47, 11 January 2010 (UTC)


You seem to have accidentally merged the xcl and hy sections. Mglovesfun (talk) 20:46, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Actually, that was AutoFormat. --Vahagn Petrosyan 20:49, 11 January 2010 (UTC)


If I want to move all the translations from bladder to urinary bladder, how do I make the translation table on bladder to say see urinary bladder? Thanks, Razorflame 23:50, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

You would use {{trans-see}}. --Yair rand 23:54, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Yes, like this. --Vahagn Petrosyan 23:56, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the help :) Cheers, Razorflame 23:57, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Todo/etyl problems[edit]

I figured you *might* want to do the xcl and the hy ones yourself, rather than having a complete novice (prolly me) do it. Mglovesfun (talk) 09:14, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this up. --Vahagn Petrosyan 16:55, 13 January 2010 (UTC)


Fancy updating this (when you're more sober)? :p Conrad.Irwin 14:22, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

LOLZ, I came here to say the same kinda thing. XD 50 Xylophone Players talk 22:00, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
I tried but I can't find what that worm called "Arabic Sign Sanah" does. All I can do is delete my opus. BTW, no one noticed my other Easter egg :) --Vahagn Petrosyan 22:42, 15 January 2010 (UTC)


Привет. Having added the etymology to плевать and пљувати, I noticed the etymology at the Armenian and Old Armenian entries and there I found Sanskrit ष्टीवति (ṣṭīvati)) in lieu of ष्ठीवति (ṣṭhīvati) which is quoted in Vasmer's dictionary. Could you check in your source whether the initial consonants are ṣṭh or ṣṭ? The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 21:11, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

My source too says it's ṣṭh. I must have copied ष्टीवति (ṣṭīvati) from Appendix:List of Proto-Indo-European roots/s. Are you sure ṣṭhīvati in Devanagari is ष्ठीवति? I can't find anything in Monier-Williams. --Vahagn Petrosyan 22:53, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
For what it's worth, has ष्ठीवति (ṣṭhīvati) and ष्टीवति (ṣṭīvati) just redirects to the former... [7][ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 23:39, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
Good. I changed the spelling to ṣṭhīvati everywhere. --Vahagn Petrosyan 23:49, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

One must search for root (dhātu) in Monier-Williams: ṣṭhiv (STHiv in ITRANS spelling), where it's listed as a class-1 and class-4 verb with 3rd-person singular present active indicative being ṣṭhīvati and ṣṭhīvyati respectively. For verbal roots that undergo multiple inflectional classes we simply chose any one as the default. --Ivan Štambuk 23:58, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

How about lemmatization? Should I link to the Sanskrit root or 3rd-person singular present active indicative in etymologies? --Vahagn Petrosyan 00:45, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
Not the roots (for listing of which there's an appendix somewhere, still in the phase of infancy), but the 3PS present indicative, which is the preferred lemma form for verbs. For nouns these are the stems, without the nominative singular ending (usually -s) in order to evade the problem of sandhi variants for final consonants (which doesn't appear in case of verbs). I opened up a problem of lemmatizing Sanskrit in the BP some 2 years ago and nobody objected to that practice. This is as close that we can get to really attested forms and some folks have objections to adding entries which are not really "attested" (even though they're established to be lemmatized as that in all the relevant lexicographical works, in case of Sanskrit a practice going on for > 2500 years :) Although, the whole concept of an attestation of a "word" or "word form" as an arbitrarily defined sequence of letters separated by whitespace is quite pointless in a languages with such an extensive sentential sandhi. --Ivan Štambuk 01:18, 16 January 2010 (UTC)


Hi! I noticed that the declension table for որտեղ is a little bit messed up. Any chance you could have a look at it? You seem to be the last non-bot to be in touch with it, so I figured I ask you :) HannesP 16:29, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Most of Armenian pronouns are messed up. I plan to fix them after I'm done creating Old Armenian pronouns. --Vahagn Petrosyan 21:23, 16 January 2010 (UTC)


Hi! Does that Avestan font work for you? Do you see all/any of the characters in the Appendix:Avestan alphabet ? --Ivan Štambuk 04:37, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Barev. No, it didn't work for me: I see cubes in Firefox 3.6 (20100105), IE 8, Opera 10. I'm running Windows 7 64-bit. But when I copy text to Word and select Avestan, I can see all characters, except No. 47, 57 and 58. --Vahagn Petrosyan 05:09, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
OK, that's good. Characters 47, 57 and 58 aren't there (there's no /l/ in Avestan, it was used in the Pahlavi commentaries, and those extra punctuations are for cosmetic purposes and not required for dictionary entries). So it seems to be a Firefox problem if I'm not mistaken. Are you running 32-bit or 64-bit version of Firefox? I run this one and it works fine. I noticed that when I have both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Firefox installed, I get strange errors in both of them (e.g. some characters sometimes display OK and sometimes wrong, sometimes it works with {Avst} and sometimes it requires it..). --Ivan Štambuk 05:44, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
I uninstalled 32-bit Firefox and installed the one you pointed to: still, I see boxes with numbers. --Vahagn Petrosyan 06:15, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
OK, thanks for trying. Looks like I'm alone on this one. --Ivan Štambuk 06:48, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
You have installed both the modified Alphabetum and this new Avestan.ttf, right? Maybe it's the Alphabetum that works for you? --Vahagn Petrosyan 07:06, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
No, just this one. Both of them have the same internal font name ("Avestan") so they cannot co-exist. --Ivan Štambuk 07:18, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Possible Hayuhi sighting[edit]

"Ovanessian" hajoc' anun e? There was a woman by that name on Dog Whisperer... hskayakan krçk'er <insert proper form of unenal here, because it's such a weird word>.

On an only slightly more serious note, can I add some paper-thin-borders to the hy-conj templates so better section off the Armenian/Latin stuff, like in {{sl-decl-adj-1}}? — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 16:03, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

 :D Ayo. It’s a russified form of Հովհաննիսյան (Hovhannisyan). You need a form of ունեմ (unem) there, a defective verb without a conjugation table yet. As for borders, I don’t like them, they are heavy and distracting, sorry. White borders are OK, though (if you can make them). --Vahagn Petrosyan 07:07, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Heavy? I'm talking about borders that are one pixel thick lol — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 15:55, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
I experimented with borders in different browsers. Don't want them. :) --Vahagn Petrosyan 16:58, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
fine you party pooper :D — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 18:19, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


Hello. Why have you removed this pronunciation file?

If it is "wrong", you should remove it from Commons, not here, because other Wiktionaries use it as well! --Derbeth talk 10:44, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

I removed the pronunciation because of problems with stress. The new version of the file will be uploaded to Commons soon. --Vahagn Petrosyan 11:20, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
Ok, thanks. Can you review also здравствуйте? I was taught that the first "в" is not pronounced and the IPA confirms this, but the recording has this "в" spoken. I don't know if it is a mistake or some kind of dialectal pronunciation. --Derbeth talk 11:26, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
The first "в" is an illusion: the recorder does not pronounce it. Of course "здр" is pronounced twice. --Vahagn Petrosyan 11:34, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Jingoistic images[edit]

Hi Vahagn. Just FYI, this stuff is pretty inflamatory; I’d take it down if I were you. (Apart from the nature of the imagery, the English Wiktionary takes a fairly austere stance on user-page personalisation generally.)  (u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 00:43, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Happy now? I'm getting bored on Wiktionary: no more Serbo-Croatian battles, no Wonderfools coming out of closet... We need a new thing. --Vahagn Petrosyan 02:59, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
Feel free to do what you like; I just wanted to avert you being censured. If you’re looking for trouble, then my advice does not apply.  (u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 03:15, 25 January 2010 (UTC)