User talk:Vahagn Petrosyan/Archive 5

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I wanted to add the etymology to يعقوبيان, but I dunno how this should be spelled... "Յակուբյան" would be my thought. — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 16:31, 11 May 2011 (UTC) Or maybe "Յաղուբյան"...may have answered my own question lol :) — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 16:35, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

There are people surnamed both Յակուբյան (Yakubyan) and Յաղուբյան (Yałubyan). You are probably referring to w:The Yacoubian Building. According to this the building is named after a certain millionaire named Հակոբ Յակուբյան (Hakob Yakubyan), so I'm changing your ety a bit. --Vahag 19:52, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
Actually, I do know that movie (haven't watched it yet, but there's supposed to be an eeevil predatory homosexual in it, so of course I have to see it) but I was thinking of a character in a kid's movie, [w:Meet the Robinsons] named "Mike Yagoobian", which made me think of the Yacoubian Building, which led me to add the entry lol. I guess at some point they'll all have to be added. — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 20:03, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
Actually actually, while we're on the subject, are these spelled Ягубян and Якубян in Russian? — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 20:08, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
Yep, Ягубян and Якубян. --Vahag 21:21, 11 May 2011 (UTC)


Could you please check this? Thanks --Mglovesfun (talk) 14:31, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Jescho odin familija[edit]

(I'm lazy, that's why it's in Latinica.) So, I came across this paper about Persian morphology or some shit and the author's name is Megerdumian, which for an obvious reason has an Armenian flair to it. But the Megerdum part I'm too nervous to guess and be wrong. I hate being wrong. Anyway, what do you make of it? I think it *might* just be a Persian plural word that got made a surname or something. — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 03:14, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Ещё одна фамилия. :) --Anatoli 12:10, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
Balls, I'm always doing that >_< — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 12:46, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
It's the Western Armenian pronunciation of Մկրտումյան (Mkrtumyan). All clever books are written by Armenians. --Vahag 20:27, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
The book was short, but had some pretty nifty stuff. Armenians pretty much rock. — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 06:41, 31 May 2011 (UTC)


One is from 1910, the other from 1794. These sources are not acceptable. No respectable dictionary says Latin numen is from Greek. Please, stop spreading ignorance. --Vahag 12:43, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Votes/pl-2011-05/Add en: to English topical categories, part 2[edit]

Since you voted on this topic before, I thought I would let you know there is another vote on the topic. —CodeCat 19:28, 17 June 2011 (UTC)


User thinks this isn't valid. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:34, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

The user thinks everything that is not in his favorite modern Georgian dictionary isn't valid. We need a very knowledgeable Georgian expert to go through Category:ka:Armenian derivations and sort the words between Old/Middle/Modern/Modern-dialectal Georgian. --Vahag 12:56, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
I left my 2 cents at that talk page. Cheers, Malafaya 00:17, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
And you think everything that is written in your favourite dictionary is corect. p.s. my f. dic. doesnt only include modern terms.Dixtosa 10:18, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

"you're a Wonderfool"[edit]

And you're evidently drunk. Hurrah! Equinox 22:53, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Alcohol is underrated. Says me, who's more or less given up in the last 8 weeks. Mglovesfun (talk) 22:54, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
No, I'm not. You keep reverting my useful contributions just because I'm black. You're racist. --Vahag 22:58, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
You're a refujew. Equinox 22:59, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
Not Jew, but see what Encyclopedia Americana says about Armenians :D "Like the Jews, whom in many respects they resemble, their ruling passion appears to be an inordinate love of gain, but they are generally esteemed honest". --Vahag 23:24, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
"The Armenians, or those of Turcomania, are Persons of a good Behaviour, and just in their Dealings; and some of them (addicted to Traffick) are dispers'd thro' most Parts of the trading World. But the People of Georgia are said to be extremely given to Thieving, Drunkenness, and all Sorts of other Vices. Those of the female Sex are generally reckoned the most beautiful Women of any in all the Oriental Countries..." Equinox 23:29, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
I like how people in olden times were less politically correct... --Vahag 23:45, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
I'm with you on that one. Does Armenia have any really good, clever gay jokes? If so, I want them. — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 04:17, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
In Armenia, we don't have homosexuals like in your country. I don't know who told you we have this phenomenon. --Vahag 07:05, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
You don't need gays to have gay jokes! But you know what's funny, it's true I've never met a gay Armenian, and not for lack of trying. — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 12:15, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
  • I like how one week of Wonderfoollessness leads to WF-accusations. Embrace him, already!--Angel drinks 01:02, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
I personally love Wonderfool. I hope I can witness in real-time his next deletion of the main page. Trăiască Wonderfool. — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 04:17, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

¶ Is it really too difficult to improve the security of these websites? This is getting pathetic. --Pilcrow 07:10, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Your face is getting pathetic. See how easy that is? lol. At any rate, do you know anything about Wonderfool? He does a lot of kickass work in order to gain the trust of our sheepies and gain the ability to bomb the main page. Then he does some silly shit that tends to be rather amusing and deletes the main page. It's honestly NOT that friggin difficult to reverse, and there have been times where he's added thousands of good entries before it, so really he's a much better editor than a lot of the cunts we still have floating around who compared to some of Wonderfool's past work are just useless. — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 11:49, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Laurent, why do you hate me? --Pilcrow 19:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
I pretty much hate everything, I'm a bitter queer. T_T — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 20:31, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Remove your childish emoticon as it is very insulting. I was asking a serious inquiry which you chose to ignore. --Pilcrow 21:07, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Didn't realize it was serious lol. I don't hate you. If we've ever had disagreements in the past where I was pointedly unfriendly to you, I don't remember. I'm a loose cannon. I don't keep a log of everyone I abuse. I hate very few people here, and they tend to all be leaving or dying, so. Yeah. — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 22:39, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
¶ When I objected to your profanity, you rudely commanded that I “get the fuck over it”. I am willing to bet that if any non‐administrators said the exact same thing, they would get banned in an instant, but since an admin wrote it then it is perfectly acceptable. Right? --Pilcrow 22:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
What people do with their own user subpages is up to them. You also brought my religion into it, so I wasn't exactly prepared to go easy. I never said my behavior is acceptable to anyone else. I tend to not be concerned too much about that when I'm dealing with my own userpages. I put up lots of warnings about my character. My page, my talk page, random postings on other talk pages. I'm quite upfront about my belligerence and nerdrage. — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 23:17, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Relax, opiobear, Pilcrow is Wonderfool. --Vahag 11:54, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Haha I've been on attack mode recently, and I just woke up. I'm out of control as usual :D Plz forgive me. — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 12:15, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
"I pretty much hate everything" good point. Mglovesfun (talk) 20:38, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
They say honesty is the best policy. I do like some things, though. Just keep it on the down low. I have a reputation for being a brutish cunt. It must be maintained.[ R·I·C ] Laurent — 20:48, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
I don't think you are a brutish cunt. Sorry. --Daniel 21:36, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Quote of the week right there. --Mglovesfun (talk) 21:46, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
I must not be working hard enough :( — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 22:39, 29 June 2011 (UTC)


Hello, I would like to know, how do i upload or record audio recordings for word entries??? —This unsigned comment was added by Elperretebueno (talkcontribs).

Hi. First, you need to record the pronunciation using an external software. I recommend you use Audacity. See this for details. If the word is Georgian, name the recorded file ka-word.ogg; for example, the pronunciation file for შუბი must be named ka-შუბი.ogg. Then upload the file here. Finally, you must link to the file from Wiktionary like this. --Vahag 07:54, 10 July 2011 (UTC)


Hi, i would like to know if postpositions' entries should appear as "-entry" or simply as "entry". example "-ათვის" vs "ათვის" ?

I don't know. You should ask User:Dixtosa, he is a native Georgian speaker. --Vahag 23:04, 12 July 2011 (UTC)


Do you think anyone uses the Georgian pages or benefits from our work?

Probably, but I have no proof. --Vahag 06:16, 13 July 2011 (UTC)


¶ I hope you realise that you are only proving my assumption that it is acceptable for people to insult me. --Pilcrow 15:24, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Insults make the world go 'round. — [Ric Laurent] — 16:28, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
¶ I do not care. I did not join this website so I could get harassed by ‘superiors’ who could easily overpower me, but maintaining a formal or polite tone on a lexicographic project is apparently too demanding to accept. --Pilcrow 02:13, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
All I can say is... follow the rules and guidelines and you should be fine. If you do that and you're still getting bitched at, in my opinion you've the right to return fire. — [Ric Laurent] — 02:35, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Votes/2011-07/Categories of names[edit]

The vote Categories of names is going to end soon, after receiving contributions of only a few people. (it proposes a number of renamings, in this pattern: Category:en:Rivers to Category:English names of rivers)

It would benefit very much from your vote, even one of abstention.

I assume you would be interested in this subject, as I am sending this message to everyone who didn't vote yet, but participated in the discussion that introduced the vote, and/or in this poll, which received far more attention than the vote, and is closely related to the proposal in question.

Thank you. --Daniel 16:42, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

dva dela[edit]

  1. կարեւոր needs someone who knows Armenian better than I do to love and nurture it. But I'm sure just giving it some attention will suffice. It needs to learn to grow up to be a big strong entry. (Disregard my lunacy, I've been awake like 5 minutes)
  2. Would you hate me if I edited {{hy-adj}} so that the superlative was out of the brackets with a transliteration of it after? It'd end up looking like:
կարեւոր (karewor), superlative ամենակարեւոր (amenakarewor)
[Ric Laurent] — 12:29, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
It looks pretty, do it! --Vahag 18:45, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
Haha cool, I'm glad you like it :) I added another parameter for the transliteration of {{{2}}}. I put it to use on karewor (sorry 'bout the v lol) but for now it'll be the only entry with that third parameter, so others will lack the second superlative's translit for now. — [Ric Laurent] — 19:37, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Hey dude, I've got another one for ya. How would you say this in Armenian? Wanna use it for an example sentence somewhere: The hummingbird is the only bird that can fly backwards. — [Ric Laurent] — 20:28, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Կոլիբրին միակ թռչունն է, որը կարող է դեպի ետ թռչել: (Kolibrin miak tʿṙčʿunn ē, orə karoł ē depi et tʿṙčʿel.)
I think other birds too could fly backwards if they really wanted. They just haven't tried. --Vahag 13:16, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
Other birds are too stupid to realize they have the option of flying in directions other than forward. Hummingbirds are the future. lolz — [Ric Laurent] — 13:27, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

сиамская кошка[edit]

Could you check this entry I cleaned up. Feel free to remove this message if/when you do so. Cheers. Mglovesfun (talk) 14:16, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Sure. --Vahag 14:30, 29 September 2011 (UTC)


Someone made a post here in Armenian. Could you please have a look at it and translate it if you can? Thank you! —CodeCat 10:44, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

It says "Good, Bad, Messy, Mistake in definition, Confusing, Could not find the word I want, Incomplete, Entry has inaccurate information, Definition is too complicated, If you have time, leave us a note."
Someone Google-translated the feedback options into Armenian. --Vahag 10:55, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Есть работёнка (просьба)[edit]

Привет, Вааг. Добавь, если нетрудно, пожалуйста, один вариант армянского перевода сюда - Appendix:X is a beautiful language. По-русски и других языках я написал "Русский язык очень красивый", без "очень" как-то звучит статично. Что ты думаешь по этому поводу? Если есть желание и время, не мог бы ты заполнить некоторые запросы по армянскому в Category:Translation_requests_(Armenian), меня интересуют только фразы, но все подряд, а типичные. Кто у нас есть живой из грузинского отдела? --Anatoli 22:45, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

I did the first request myself, pls check: Հայերենը (Hayerenə) գեղեցիկ (gełecʿik) լեզու (lezu) է (ē): (hayerenə geġec’ik lezu e.) :) --Anatoli 10:19, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
Привет! Твой перевод правильный. Насчёт русского, думаю что с "очень" звучит лучше. Из грузин полезен этот юзверь, хотя он думает, что вино придумали грузины. --Vahag 11:14, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
Спасибо. Гмм, как-то перешел на английский, незаметно для себя. Грузинский перевод я тоже сделал, не будем мешать с вином. :) --Anatoli 19:48, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Fancy being a judge?[edit]

Hi VP.. So they didn't choose you to be the judge for America's Top Model. Nevermind, you can still live out your dream, and be one of the judges in the upcoming story-writing competition. Are you interested? You may of course enter as well as judge. --Rockpilot 09:45, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

I will be happy to judge the stories in terms of literary merit. I don't want to judge the steps 1 and 3. --Vahag 17:17, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
WT:FUN needs your judging. --Rockpilot 01:24, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

BP's in the BP[edit]

For playing the race card out of turn, you lose 100 Bastard Points (you know the rules, you can only play the race card after the first trump card has been played, and only after a triple bluff has been dealt after the flop...unless, of course, you have black skin, then you can play the race card with other people of the same skin colour, and take the trick if a white person trumps your low flop card. Of course, playing the Jackofclubs deletion page wins every time) Standing up for another member of the Bastard Club gets you 150 BPs, and asking for BPs in an edit summary for a comment I would've awarded you BPs for even if I hadn't read the edit summary gets you 366 points. I think that's all the points. Have a nice evening. --Rockpilot 22:38, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

So +416 pts. I'm satisfied. --Vahag 19:32, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
For the record, Vahag, there's a buuuunch of gyotveranner here lol — [Ric Laurent] — 19:43, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
Are you saying we have a Gay Mafia in Wiktionary? I'm scared. --Vahag 20:03, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
Lol no, we're not organized or anything. And most of them seem to either be shy about it or just not as in-your-face as I am. — [Ric Laurent] — 20:30, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
I suggest it's time the Bastard Club and the Gay Mafia forgot their differences and joined forces and formed a clique the likes of which have never been seen, and called themselves something catchy. --Rockpilot 22:06, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
I'm probably the most mafia-esque of Wiktionary's gays, so I'd say I currently constitute the totality of our Gay Mafia. If not, I'm still probably the most vicious, which would make me the leader of the GM. (If not automatically, I'm not afraid to cut a bitch to make it to the top.) And being that I'm a member of the BC and leader of the GM, it is my opinion that our disorganizations are partners in wikicrime. — [Ric Laurent] — 23:35, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
Financial Times rumours a future buyout by the GNAA. Equinox 22:09, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Uppercase of ու[edit]

Hi Vahag,

Is all-caps ever used in Armenian? (Like, how in English we can write LIKE THIS to simulate shouting?) I ask because we list Ու (U) as the uppercase form of ու (u), but I wonder if it's actually a "title-case" form (when only the first letter of a word is capitalized), with ՈՒ (U) being the fully uppercase form?

Thanks in advance!

RuakhTALK 20:33, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Sure, we do write in all-caps and, indeed, Ու (U) is the title-case. Maybe we should do something similar to ch#Spanish for ու (u). And thanks for improving {{hy-letter}}. --Vahag 20:47, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
You're welcome! But I'm kind of an idiot, it took me a few days to notice that ու (u) already had a usage note about this . . . —RuakhTALK 15:47, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

հնախօս (hnaxōs)[edit]

Could you perhaps make this decent if it is indeed a real word in (Old) Armenian, as it does seem to be to me? 50 Xylophone Players talk 15:47, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Sure, buddy. --Vahag 16:42, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for that. Just saw it as the worthless piece of crap it was and decided to show it to you instead of just nuking it. 50 Xylophone Players talk 22:56, 12 December 2011 (UTC)


Привет, Вааг. Как по-армянски джигит? Посмотри статью dzhigit, если что-то еще знаешь, добавь пожалуйста. --Anatoli (обсудить) 22:32, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Привет, Анатолий. По-армянски ջիգիթ (ǰigitʿ). Мы тоже его переняли из русского, в Армении джигитов нет. И вообще, мы не кавказцы, а больше переднеазиатский народ. --Vahag 05:56, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
Я в курсе, LOL. Это тюркское слово, но в Россию его знают. շնորհակալություն за перевод. მხედარი - это просто всадник, мне кажется есть слово ჯიგიტი?
Кстати, Сделал Wiktionary:Kyrgyz transliteration на свое усмотрение, Мадина пока не ответил на мой вопрос, чем он пользуется. --Anatoli (обсудить) 06:29, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
Да, ჯიგიტი более правильный перевод. Мадина использует какую-то пантюркскую систему транслитерации для всех тюрксих языков, основанную на турецком алфавите. Я тоже когда-то просил его опубликовать эту систему, но он молчит. --Vahag 06:56, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
Хороший словарь. Совершенной системы транслитерации нет, некоторые буквы повторяются, лучше уж установить свой стандарт и договориться его использовать. Я составил на основе русской транскрипции киргизского, но пришлось кое-что изменить. --Anatoli (обсудить) 07:13, 13 December 2011 (UTC)


I know you decided against plurals for {{hy-noun}}, since they're predictable. But how about singular genitive, since that's less predictable and actually important to the declension type of the noun? Optional gen= and gentr=, whadduya thinks? — [Ric Laurent] — 18:49, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

I don't mind showing the singular genitive in the headword line. But please don't use abbreviations like "gen. sg.", they annoy me :) --Vahag 16:48, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
I don't like using abbreviations, they suck. I used them on {{ru-noun}} because there's just so much information in the headline if you use everything I added. — [Ric Laurent] — 01:15, 2 January 2012 (UTC)


Hi there Vahag! I was reading about Baklahorani and bumped into a theory that it was derived from Armenian "pagyal horan". But I couldn't find both words here, it says it means "sheeted, covered mihrab" or something like that. Actually that "mihrab" could be something in a church, lika a mihrab in a mosque, not sure. What do you think? Sinek 13:09, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Hi. The source meant փակյալ (pʿakyal, closed, shut) and խորան (xoran, mihrab-like structure in Armenian churches). I found a couple of mentions of a festival called փակյալ խորան (pʿakyal xoran), but the references are too few to understand what it's about. It is celebrated on Monday and has something to do with Lent. --Vahag 16:06, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Exactly what I'm looking for, thanks a million. Well yeah, I guess its name was derived from Armenian but it's celebrated by Greeks in Istanbul. Sinek 13:38, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

{{hy-personal pronouns}}[edit]

Հեյ բարեկամ, anything missing here? — [Ric Laurent] — 22:40, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Nice! No, nothing missing. Where does this template go? --Vahag 11:36, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
===See also=== sections, like here դուք (dukʿ)[Ric Laurent] — 11:59, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Ես չեմ սիրում արևմտահայերենը:[edit]

Added stuff from Wikipedia to {{hy-personal pronouns}} and {{hy-personal pronouns/table}}. Modified the transliteration so it would better fit their weird pronunciation :D Wanted to know if you thought that was an ok idea. — [Ric Laurent] — 13:55, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

I have thought about this a lot and came to the conclusion that it's best to transliterate Eastern, Western and Old Armenian by the same system. Pronunciations should be reflected in the ===Pronunciation=== section. I'll go ahead and change your tables, sorry :) --Vahag 14:42, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
Don't be sorry, I didn't feel strongly about it anyway lol. — [Ric Laurent] — 15:08, 9 February 2012 (UTC)


I added an example sentence to դասատու but I'd prefer one just slightly more complex. Is "Նրա հայրն մի դասատու է իմ դպրոցում:" grammatically correct? — [Ric Laurent] — 21:03, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

"Նրա հայրը դասատու է իմ դպրոցում:" Մի is not equivalent to English "a", but I can't explain why, I haven't though about it enough. --Vahag 13:56, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
It might be like in German where you use an indefinite article for a lot of things, but not for occupations. Ich habe ein Buch - մի գիրք ունեմ, but Ich bin Arzt - ես բժիշկ եմ? — [Ric Laurent] — 15:03, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
No, I think it's deeper. Մի is not an indefinite article, it means "one" and "some, certain". We don't have an indefinite article, indefiniteness is marked by the absence of -ը/-ն. Thus, you can say simply ես գիրք ունեմ (es girkʿ unem, I have a book). --Vahag 15:53, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
Alright, so saying ես մի գիրք ունեմ is like saying 'I have one book (and only one)'. I need to study Armenian. It's too cool to not know. — [Ric Laurent] — 16:00, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
Yes, if you say ես մի գիրք ունեմ and then stop, you're saying you have only one book. But if you say ես մի գիրք եմ ուզում քեզ ցույց տալ, you're saying "I want to show you a certain book" or in Russian "я хочу тебе показать одну книгу". --Vahag 16:09, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
Crap, I've never seen the եմ come before the converb like that.... I have a feeling the word order will kick my ass a little bit. — [Ric Laurent] — 16:30, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
Don't worry, you can always come to me for help. --Vahag 16:33, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
I ask a lot of questions. I'd infer based on the reactions of normal people whom I harass about their languages that it gets irritating, so I'll try to control myself a bit :D — [Ric Laurent] — 16:50, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Several questions[edit]

Barev Vahagn!

One day I wanted to create a new entry for the Georgian word ჩემთვის(translation: for me), but I dunno what part of speech it is; So, have any ideas? And there're many more words like this.

Also, why do the declensional templates(e.g. Georgian etc.) have to show transliterations too? If our final goal is to make articles for all words and even inflected forms too, then in the end we will also have transliterations for all words(as this is a part of our goal), and one can easily follow the link within the table of declension. So i'm guessing it is temporary, is it?

And lastly, can you explain what is difference between verb, verbal noun and verb form? or what header should I use when describing a word like this : ვსვამ(vsvam) (I'm drinking), if i tell you that whe just have verbal noun and verbs(I mean words that describe an action, have tense , take object/subject, mood); So, verb form or verb? I guess it isnt verbal noun :D.

And after the last:D, წიგნის მაღაზია & ცხენის ძალა they are noun phrases, yeah? Thx-- 15:24, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Privet, Dixtul.
I don't know Georgian and I don't know what part of speech ჩემთვის is. Probably a pronoun.
Transliterations in declension tables are not temporary. Having the transliterations of inflected forms on one page is very convenient. By looking at them you can learn inflection patterns, without having to click on each form separately.
"Verb form" is not a part of speech. In Wiktionary we use names like "noun form" or "verb form" to designate inflected forms, as opposed to lemma forms, also known as citation forms. For example, კაცი is a "noun", კაცების is a "noun form". Another example, Russian пить (pitʹ) is a "verb", пью (pʹju) is a "verb form". The first one should be categorized in Category:Russian verbs, the second one in Category:Russian verb forms; but both should have a ===Verb=== heading. Georgian ვსვამ is a verb form and should be formatted like this; ideally it should be defined with reference to its lemma form, which is სმა. See how Spanish bebo#Spanish is defined as First-person singular (yo) present indicative form of beber.
If you want my advice, don't waste your time on creating verb forms and noun forms. That should be done by bots, someday in the future. You should just create entries for the infinitive of verbs and the singular nominative of nouns.
I don't know anything about verbal nouns in Georgian to say whether they should be treated as "verbs", "verb forms" or as a separate part of speech.
As for წიგნის მაღაზია and ცხენის ძალა, I think they should be defined as nouns. The first one seems to be a sum of parts. --Vahag 17:59, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
thx. Hm, as the results of my observations suggest, {{LangCode-verb}} is usually used for infinitives and cuz Georgian daznt differ verbal noun and infinitive(in other words, infinitives in Georgian are called verbal nouns), we have to promote verbal noun(thus make template ka-verbal noun) and delete ka-verb(as it gets useless) or promote ka-verb and stop the practice of making verbal nouns under the head|ka|verbal noun template. So we have to make desicion. I prefer the first.
yeah that's purely wasting time, but u know some inflected forms convey meanings other than what is supposed. and that other meanings prompt me to create entry.--Wikstosa 20:02, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
You're the only native Georgian contributor, so if you think it's better to use ka-verbal noun and delete ka-verb, go for it. I have no opinion. --Vahag (talk) 22:08, 24 February 2012 (UTC)


Talkback. --Dan Polansky (talk) 12:31, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Armenian terms with greater-than[edit]

Here are Armenian or Old Armenian terms that use " > " in their etymologies: արծաթ, հուր, օ, լուսանունք, -ստ, նշույլ, دەپتەر, անալի. Do you think you could replace " > " with "from" or "whence", depending on what is appropriate? --Dan Polansky (talk) 17:09, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Sure. --Vahag (talk) 17:35, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

On Wiktionary 24/7[edit]

Not really 24/7 considering that I was away for two days prior to this evening. (The hotel had a power cut and they moved us all to another one.) P.S. Work got a wiki for documentation, since everyone was sick of Sharepoint. I feel right at home there. Equinox 23:31, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

I don't understand what your saying, but really you've got so much free time for Wiktionary because England is a socialist country and you don't have to work like the rest of us. No wonder we have so many editors from Scandinavian countries, especially Finns. --Vahag (talk) 23:35, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
If we are doing socialism we are doing it wrong. Hmm, that seems to be a pattern with socialism. Equinox 00:04, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Old Armenian example for limited documentation languages[edit]

Thank you for the Old Armenian addition to the vote for languages with limited documentation. Because it appears the vote will not pass as currently written, I have decided to drop the provision for extinct languages. I will keep the example you have provided, though, in the hopes of making a new proposal to allow words like you have suggested. --BenjaminBarrett12 (talk) 19:15, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

OK. --Vahag (talk) 19:22, 19 April 2012 (UTC)


Ok subject line might be a bit misleading, but you know I'm lazy. So I was thinking that at a certain point, when my Armenian is better and my understanding of the underlying grammatical functions is more thorough I'll maybe write some appendices and the notes in the titles of templates like the noun declension templates can link to such appendices, like Appendix:Armenian declension/oǰ-type or something. I probably won't do in-depth ones for a while, since Wiktionary's been getting on my last nerve recently and the story is taking a lot of my focus, but I think I might do some basic ones like how to compare adjectives and stuff like that. Grammar is so friggin' sexy.

Anyway man, just wanted to ramble at you for a bit :D — [Ric Laurent] — 15:24, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes, grammar appendices would be extremely useful. Today I remade declension templates so they now display not only declension type, but also animateness/non-animateness, plural type and stem change, if any. All of those could be explained in appendices. --Vahag (talk) 15:14, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Hm, your characterization of these future appendices as 'extremely useful' makes me that much more itchy to do them. Hah — [Ric Laurent] — 09:14, 23 April 2012 (UTC)


Sexy enough? -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 01:07, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes. Substratum derivation per Beekes and Martirosyan makes it sexier. --Vahag (talk) 06:38, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
Truth be told, I sort of suspected as much, but my source didn't say so, and I sure don't want to put my guesses in Wiktionary etymologies. May I ask where you're accessing Beekes? The site I used to find him at no longer works. Also, just to check, you did see the quotes, and click on their links...right? -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 12:05, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
I have Beekes in an ABBYY Lingvo format. I also have LSJ (stolen from Perseus), "A Homeric Dictionary" by Georg Autenrieth, "Lexicon to Pindar" by William J. Slater and many-many other dictionaries in the same format. If you ever decide to get Lingvo I will be happy to share my stolen treasures. But you may be executed for that in Minnesota.
Yes, I followed the links and yes, they are sexy. I may create something similar to {{grc-cite}} for Old Armenian. Or even better, we could have a generic {{xx-cite}} template and feed a database of authors and works to it. --Vahag (talk) 12:36, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
I'll seriously consider that offer. {{xx-cite}} could be difficult. For starters you have namespace issues, for another every single Ancient Greek work has to have its own template written, and they're basically all different. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 13:02, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
Could I just say I love that we have Մարտիրոսյան (Martirosyan). — [Ric Laurent] — 12:32, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
Yes, and we don't have Beekes, which proves that Armenians are superior to Dutch. --Vahag (talk) 12:36, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
Բնականաբար: — [Ric Laurent] — 13:18, 24 April 2012 (UTC)


I was wondering if any of your sources have anything useful to say about this conversation. Thanks. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 09:02, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

սա, դա և նա[edit]

Are սա and դա declined in the same way as նա? — [Ric Laurent] — 14:08, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Yep, exactly the same way. --Vahag (talk) 14:22, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Awesome, I have a 15 minute project :D
I added a usex to դա (da), not sure if my translation of ծիծաղաշարժ is the most appropriate. — [Ric Laurent] — 14:29, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
"Funny" is more appropriate, though "ridiculous" is acceptable. --Vahag (talk) 14:37, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Ես առաջ եմ քայլելու=I will walk forward? — [Ric Laurent] — 14:55, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
That's correct. --Vahag (talk) 14:59, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Awesome. It's from a song - so far the single Armenian song I know. Gotta find more... so helpful for learning... — [Ric Laurent] — 15:03, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for adding usage examples. By the way, could you add {{attention|hy}} to your newly created entries like պաշտոնական (paštonakan) so I can find them and expand? --Vahag (talk) 15:29, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
I've always thought usage examples are one of the most important things we can provide, but my Armenian obviously isn't fabulous so for now they'll probably mostly be simple nonsense lol. Speaking of bessmyslica, "бессмыслица" как по-армянски?
Oh! and attention tags should be easy. — [Ric Laurent] — 15:35, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Бессмыслица is անհեթեթություն (anhetʿetʿutʿyun). --Vahag (talk) 15:40, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
What an awesome word... it's so fitting lol. So I just remembered two of the questions that have been floating in my head for a while about Armenian now so I'll unindent. Both of them have to do with the song I mentioned.
One I think might be harder to answer because it's a question of phonology, but the guy's pronunciation kind of makes it sound like ր is devoiced at the end of a word, like in Turkish and Icelandic.
The other is about an Armenian verbs numerous impersonal forms... the participles and converbs. In Հասնելու եմ, there's a line that says "Լույս թե մութ ճամփաներ ուզածի եմ հասնելու", which I don't quite get despite the fact that I know all the individual words except 'uzac', because I don't know what that participle does. Then there's all the converbs, some of which I kind of get, then the subject participle, which I understand to be used in կարող լինել, but... !? lol — [Ric Laurent] — 15:53, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Don't know the answer to the phonology question. As for the second, it should be "Լույս թե մութ ճամփաներ, ուզածիս եմ հասնելու". It means "bright or dark paths, I will reach what I want". Ուզած (Uzac) is the resultative participle of ուզել (uzel) and means "that which is wanted". Ուզածի (Uzaci) is its genitive/dative case. With the first-person possessive suffix (-s) it means "to that which I want".
The subject participle is easy:
ուզել (uzel, to want) > ուզող (uzoł, wanter, wanting person or thing, хотящий)
նայել (nayel, to watch) > նայող (nayoł, looker, looking person or thing, смотрящий)
վիճել (vičel, to dispute) > վիճող (vičoł, disputant)
կարող (karoł) is not a participle. It's formed with the suffix -ող (-oł) in Old Armenian. Of course, the participle ending has its origin in that Old Armenian suffix. --Vahag (talk) 16:30, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Naturally you're totally right about him saying ուզածիս, that was my typo haha. Your explanations are awesome, though... If I understand correctly, the resultative participle is like a past/passive participle that's a noun? — [Ric Laurent] — 17:04, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Yes, something similar to past/passive participle. In a sentence, սա իմ ուզած աղջիկն է (sa im uzac ałǰikn ē, this is my wanted girl, this the girl I want). Մեր նայած կինոն լավը չէր (Mer nayac kinon lavə čʿēr, The movie watched by us wasn't good.) --Vahag (talk) 17:11, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Sweet... Although I don't quite understand why that's լավը there instead of just լավ... — [Ric Laurent] — 17:28, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Hmm, for other adjectives you wouldn't need the definite marker -ը. I don't know why լավ (lav) requests it, but he's an exception. --Vahag (talk) 17:33, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
That's actually very comforting... But I feel like լավ should be informed that it's a strange word. Does it add -ը in other situations that would not be required for other adjectives? — [Ric Laurent] — 17:38, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
I think only in situations like լավն է (lavn ē, is good) or լավը չէ (lavə čʿē, isn't good). վատ (vat) behaves the same way. But I don't know how to describe this phenomenon. Maybe we can add a usage note if one of us comes across an articulate explanation in some textbook. --Vahag (talk) 17:45, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
I'd hit a baby in the face if someone would give me an awesome Armenian textbook.
I recommend this one. --Vahag (talk) 17:54, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
In your example about 'the movie we watched', is that the normal way one would say that, or could you say something like կինո որը նայինք լավը չէր? — [Ric Laurent] — 17:49, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
You could say, կինոն, որը նայինք, լավը չէր, yes. --Vahag (talk) 17:54, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
I had a feeling it should have been kinon, but I wasn't sure so I just let myself be wrong for once :)
Do you think you could recommend any Armenian music? Հասնելու եմ is a decent song, but for me, having one Armenian song is kind of... անհեթեթ. — [Ric Laurent] — 18:13, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
I recommend Artur Meschyan [1], [2], Ruben Hakhverdyan [3], [4], patriotic song [5]. --Vahag (talk) 18:48, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Arno Babajanyan [6] and Aram Khachaturyan [7]. --Vahag (talk) 18:56, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Awesome, I'll have to watch these on my computer that doesn't suck ass lol.
Hey should I add {attention} to anything I mess with that needs attention, or just stuff I create? — [Ric Laurent] — 19:02, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
No, just the newly created staff. I have collected the rest at User:Vahagn_Petrosyan/hy and I check/expand those gradually. --Vahag (talk) 19:05, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Jesus, that's quite a list you've got there :O
I like your typo of stuff, it reminds me of this stupid staff you have to make in Diablo 2. Hah. :D — [Ric Laurent] — 19:24, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 :D That's because for normal people there is no difference between [ʌ] and [ɑ]! Or between short and long vowels. No one can convince me ship and sheep are pronounced differently. --Vahag (talk) 19:27, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Hah, I bet you have an epic accent. But staff is /stæf/, բարեկամս. At least in my accent, I think it's probably different elsewhere....
I feel like I should be thinking of more Armenian questions. The progress is good. Actually now that I think about it, what the fuck happened with those balloons in Երևան today??? — [Ric Laurent] — 19:35, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
They blew up. I blame Mossad. --Vahag (talk) 20:03, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Լոլ @ մոսսադ. I knew about them blowing up - although it was totally random, I just barely caught it on the news, like it was literally just starting to be spoken of when I walked into the room. But that was all I've seen, որևէ՞ նոր տեղեկություն կա: (Let me just use this opportunity to say that while Armenian is my favorite writing system, it has my least favorite punctuation system lol)[Ric Laurent] — 20:16, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Friday*. Damn now I feel all foolish lol — [Ric Laurent] — 20:29, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
I didn't follow the developments. It happened on a rally organized by the evil ruling party, so I'm not really sad. --Vahag (talk) 20:37, 5 May 2012 (UTC)


(I feel like we need a new edit link anyway) I'm not yet familiar with said ruling party, but I've just now started to read about the civics and current politics of Հաեաստան. (Which leads me to a quick question: in Սերժ Ազատի Սարգսյանը and Ռիտա Ալեքսանդրի Սարգսյան, Հովիկ Արգամի Աբրահամյան and Վահրամ Աշոտի Եղշատյան... are the middle names patronymics?? I've never seen or found a good description of Armenian naming systems.

Oh, and apparently someone filled the balloons with H instead of He and they lit up when a smoker went to... light up. One of the images I remember seeing on TV when I caught that report was this chick running around with her backpack on fire. I was like... dude I'd be trying to get that thing off. :O — [Ric Laurent] — 20:47, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

This is a slavish calque of the Russian naming system, a leftover from the Soviet era. Սերժ Ազատի Սարգսյան (Serž Azati Sargsyan) = Russian Серж Азатович Саргсян (Serž Azatovič Sargsjan). Father's name is put in genitive: Ազատ (Azat) > Ազատի (Azati).
In formal contexts we use the Russian system. In usual life just name + surname. --Vahag (talk) 20:53, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Ahhh that's pretty interesting. The historical context really solidifies it... Those Soviets were... lunatics.
ՀՀԿ is the party that's influenced a lot by Նժդեհ isn't it?, the way the "libertarians" here are influenced by Ayn Rand.... — [Ric Laurent] — 20:58, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Yes, just like your Muslim president is influenced by Marx and Saul Alinsky. --Vahag (talk) 21:00, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Haaaahaha God it would be great if you got Fox News in Armenia, it can be so entertaining.... — [Ric Laurent] — 21:06, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Well, I used to get it via satellite but then the signal faded. By the way, watching your channels and comparing them to European (or even Russian) channels I can say that discourse on your side is very primitive. --Vahag (talk) 21:11, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
It really is, especially in the news where you would kind of hope they would behave. Although I will say that the British are WAY worse in their actual government. Watching them "govern" is totally surreal. It's amazing to me that they get anything done at all. So they all shout and sneer at each other, and here we call each other commies and war criminals and suggest that the other guy is hanging out with terrorists and wants to take your money and ejaculate all over it or something, I dunno... Our politics are fucking monkeyish.
On a less serious note, I'm tempted to leave {attention} on my example sentences so I don't have to bother you and ask every time I think of one lol. կուսակցություն (kusakcʿutʿyun)[Ric Laurent] — 21:15, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Oh by the way... That textbook's section on phonology is amazing. But that's as far as I've gotten so far lol — [Ric Laurent] — 22:04, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Ah, and apparently the answer to my earlier question is that word-final ɾ isn't devoiced, it's palatalized ɾʲ lol sweet — [Ric Laurent] — 22:09, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Yes, it's a very a nice and modern textbook. I'm reading it too. --Vahag (talk) 22:26, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
I had to stop before my head started to hurt. But I feel like I understand a lot more of the phonology that was confusing me before. Which is naturally pretty kickass :D But I'll have to read specific sections later. I wonder if she explains the definite article for լավ, վատ, չար... — [Ric Laurent] — 22:34, 5 May 2012 (UTC)


By the way, did you see LanguageHat's post from May 4? I'm sure you could probably help if you wanted to :) Ƿidsiþ 08:17, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

I've replied there. But I don't follow Languagehat. --Vahag (talk) 09:29, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

And a typically thorough and competent an answer it is. Nice one. Ƿidsiþ 09:35, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Why, thank you. --Vahag (talk) 09:36, 9 May 2012 (UTC)


What the hell was that? That sort of nonsense has no place on this project. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 21:03, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Stick. No need to introduce you to ass. You seem to be well acquainted. — [Ric Laurent] — 00:03, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

ունՑ ունՑ ունՑ ունՑ[edit]

Հե՜յ եղբայրս, this sentence look okay grammatically? "Կլրովս եմ քանդելու քո պուցը:" — [Ric Laurent] — 01:31, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Lol, yes, said like a true Armenian rabiz :D --Vahag (talk) 06:25, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
Oh man, I have been wondering if there was "that kind" of music in Armenia haha... It seems every country has their embarrassing bullshit music and associated douchebags... The Balkans have turbofolk, Romania has manele, America has... its music industry.
But I'm excited I didn't fuck up the word order for once lol. — [Ric Laurent] — 12:26, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
LoL alright man! Tell your language to stop being so unpredictable! taguhi as tak'uhi, but xelagar normal! arnandam as arnant'am, but k'andel normal! Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy T_T I'm just gonna stop doing pronunciation lol... — [Ric Laurent] — 18:25, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
I think that's because tak’uhi and ant’am are the organic developments in modern dialects of Old Armenian taguhi and andam, with regular sound changes. Whereas xelagar and k’andel are learned literary reintroductions of the forgotten Old Armenian words. Their pronunciation follows the spellings, because at the time of their reintroduction people did not have organically inherited equivalents in their dialects. But I'm not sure, these are all conjectures. PS Please, do add pronunciations, just put {{attention|hy}} somewhere on the page. --Vahag (talk) 18:35, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
Actually that's pretty interesting... I'm still trying to sense a pattern to when the auxiliary part of a verb form comes before or after the converb... I haven't found a description of that in Targut.
On a completely unrelated note, I finished a color version of a portrait of Mr. Վարուժան Պետրոսյան. I can facebook you a link if you like, I think it came out well — [Ric Laurent] — 18:42, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
Sure, send me a link. --Vahag (talk) 18:49, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
Sent it a bit back, but want to check and make sure this is alright (I feel like the 'xosel' might be better placed somewhere else): Ես ուզում եմ քեզ հետ մի շատ կարևոր բանի մասին խոսել: — [Ric Laurent] — 19:33, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
It's perfectly placed, don't worry! --Vahag (talk) 05:02, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
I worry constantly when it comes to my Armenian lol — [Ric Laurent] — 13:19, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
On that note, I have a question about how you pronounce conditionals like կլվանամ... would it be kələvɑnɑm, just adding the k- at the beginning, or does that change the flow of it to kəlvɑnɑm, or maybe kləvɑnɑm? — [Ric Laurent] — 14:18, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
k- is pronounced [kə] and does not change the flow, so [kələvɑnɑm]. --Vahag (talk) 15:10, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
-Sigh of relief- lol. I just thought of another thing I was wondering - when a word ends in ա, does it still need the -ա- link for making compound words? I made an example sentence with something disparaging about an Armenian neonazi leader somewhere to which this applies — [Ric Laurent] — 15:18, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, I saw the usex in սիրել (sirel) :) No, you don't need the հոդակապ (hodakap) when the word ends in -ա. --Vahag (talk) 18:03, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
Whew, sweet... շնորհակալ եմ, եղբայր :) I'm sure I'll be back sooner or later with more questions lol — [Ric Laurent] — 18:45, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

here's one lol[edit]

So, there's a lyric in this song that goes "ախ աման - մի համբույրը ինչ ա, որ ինձ չես տալիս" which strikes me as odd because of the "մի համբույրը" part. How do we get մի and -ը? Is that like stylistic, or does it have another grammatical meaning? — [Ric Laurent] — 01:34, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

մի համբույրը ի՞նչ ա, որ ինձ չես տալիս (mi hambuyrə i?nčʿ a, or inj čʿes talis, what is [the] one kiss, that you wouldn't give to me?). մի (mi) is used as a numeral “one” here. You can use the definite case with numerals in Armenian. Like, երկու ընկերները (erku ənkernerə, the two friends). --Vahag (talk) 08:11, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

The distinction between է and ա kind of eludes me, also... It doesn't look like they're totally interchangeable, so is it a contextual thing? — [Ric Laurent] — 02:05, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

է (ē) is formal, ա (a) is dialectal/colloquial. Other than the register, they are totally interchangeable. --Vahag (talk) 08:11, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
I wow, two really seemingly perplexing issues, two simple awesome explanations :D Yaaaaaa մերսի բարեկամ :) — [Ric Laurent] — 12:30, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

I thought I asked you this like last month[edit]

Guess I just forgot to lol. Are այս, այդ, այն declined or are they only adjectival? — [Ric Laurent] — 11:36, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

No, they are not declined. The declined forms of սա, դա, նա are used instead. --Vahag (talk) 16:08, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
Alright sweet. Thanks man. — [Ric Laurent] — 20:03, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

A question about Wiktionary:Requested entries (Latvian)[edit]

I noticed that several of the requested entries have notes saying they come from "spam messages". How come words found in spam messages end up in a list of requested entries? I would have expected, I don't know, word frequency lists or famous works of literature to be the source of requested entries -- but spam messages? Do you happen to know why? Just curious. --Pereru (talk) 14:24, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Those were added by User:Hippietrail. He likes adding requests for words he comes upon in his travels or reading emails. --Vahag (talk) 14:29, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
Oh, OK. By the way, I noticed that some of the requested words are presumed misspellings. If I can't find them in a good dictionary, and if I see there indeed is a similar word (like tuce, listed there as 'rain cloud'; my dictionaries have no such word, but there is a word tūce 'dark, rain cloud' which is probably what was meant), is it OK if I delete the word from the Request list? (I've just done that with tuce.) --Pereru (talk) 22:24, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
Yes, it's OK. But you should preferably leave something like "rmv 'tuce', a misspelling of tūce" in the edit summary. --Vahag (talk) 22:29, 1 July 2012 (UTC)


Vahag, something is wrong with the template Template:ru-noun-inan-й-1 when used for улей. Everything is fine except for the accusative singular. Of course, it should be like the nominative singular, but it isn’t. This template works correctly for other nouns that do not have a reducible form. —Stephen (Talk) 06:05, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

I now fixed it. Thank you for noticing. --Vahag (talk) 12:00, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


Привет, Вааг. Я хотел обратить твоё внимание на правки одного анонимного участника, который добавляет свою версию о происхождении одного грузинского слова. Он даже не оснащает свою версию источником, напрямую берётся за дело и правит страницу. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 08:12, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Спасибо, Богорм. Я объяснил ему его ошибку. --Vahag (talk) 12:35, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


Parew, yes trkiayen em. Yes hay chem, ayl hayeren gë sorvim. Tuk arevmdahayeren gë xosik ? Ur g'abrik ? And finally, thanx for the message. When'll you create the templates for Arewmdahayeren ? Best wishes, -- 18:46, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Barev. Yes Yerevanits em. Khosum em arevelahayeren. I don't plan on creating Western Armenian templates in the near future, as that would entail a lot of research and I'm busy these days.
I went through your edits and I'm sorry I had to revert so many of them. Let me explain why.
  • For consistency and to avoid duplication only Reformed Orthography should be used in translation tables, even for Western Armenian.
  • Likewise, Eastern Armenian forms in Reformed Orthography should be used as a lemma; Western Armenian and Traditional Orthography must be defined as alternative forms.
  • Both Eastern and Western Armenian must be transliterated according to WT:HY TR. The scheme is based on Old Armenian (Grabar). --Vahag (talk) 09:17, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
Butting in, should Western Armenian be treated as a separate language to Armenian? See User talk:Mglovesfun#Western Armenian. I don't oppose it but it must be discussed before being implemented, rather than being implemented by an IP. Mglovesfun (talk) 23:41, 16 July 2012 (UTC)


Thank you for the vote of support on Wiktionary_talk:Votes/2012-06/Well_Documented_Languages. It has passed. Do you want to propose Armenian be removed from the list? Consensus in the Beer Parlour is all that's needed. --BB12 (talk) 23:13, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

No, let's leave it in the list for now. If someone starts RFV'ing my Armenian entries in bad faith, then we'll think of making the change. --Vahag (talk) 09:48, 2 August 2012 (UTC)


How is this language actually defined? Normally, a proto-language is considered to be the ancestor of a family, but what if the family has only one language in it? What distinguishes Proto-Armenian from attested Classical Armenian? —CodeCat 13:20, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

It is defined as the stage of Armenian starting from its separation from Proto-Indo-European (3rd millennium BC) until its attestation in the 5th century AD (the beginning of Classical Armenian). I don't see why the ancestor of a single language can't be called a proto-language. There is Proto-Basque and Proto-Greek.
I don't know enough to comment on the differences between Classical Armenian and Proto-Armenian. I don't think Proto-Armenian has been properly reconstructed, because you have only one descendant. You can get some clues from prehistoric borrowings from Proto-Armenian (see գի (gi)) but you can't reconstruct its grammar or vocabulary like you can do for Proto-Germanic or Proto-Celtic. --Vahag (talk) 14:14, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
Ok, I mostly wondered because to really make a reconstruction you need to apply the w:comparative method on the descendants. And when there is only one descendant... well, then there isn't much to compare. I suppose Proto-Armenian is mostly reconstructed through w:internal reconstruction? —CodeCat 14:52, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
I don't know. Probably. I have to read more about the subject. --Vahag (talk) 12:17, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

-tis and -tus in Armenian[edit]

I don't know if you are very familiar with Indo-European and such but I am wondering about this. How do the Indo-European abstract nouns in -tis and -tus normally surface in Armenian? Do they keep only the -t or not even that? —CodeCat 15:45, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, can't help you. I am not familiar with PIE > Armenian sound changes. This essay from Martirosyan's book may be useful. --Vahag (talk) 19:29, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
Yes, it is! Thank you! From what I can gather from it, sometimes the i remains, usually it's gone, sometimes the t ends up as d, and sometimes that disappears too. —CodeCat 20:02, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Extinct languages[edit]

Hi Vahagn. We have a new vote to allow words into English Wiktionary if they are found in extinct languages in "mentions" rather than actual uses. I hope you will consider voting: Wiktionary:Votes/2012-08/Extinct_Languages_-_Criteria_for_Inclusion. --BB12 (talk) 22:10, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Sure. --Vahag (talk) 09:26, 21 August 2012 (UTC)


I'm not sure that can be right. All the descendants have a-. —CodeCat 21:08, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

OK, please look at Martirosyan, De Vaan and Beekes and move the entry to the correct spelling. I have no opinion. --Vahag (talk) 21:17, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
Ok, I've moved it to Template:termx based on the second two references, which seems more plausible. —CodeCat 21:20, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
I don't mind. --Vahag (talk) 21:21, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

broken audio file links[edit]

Hi. There are many Armenian entries with broken audio file links. Were they existed before? Were they deleted or moved? Maro 15:17, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

No, they never existed. I was planning to upload them soon after creating the entries, but that never happened. I don't plan on recording the pronunciations any time soon, so {{audio-IPA}} should be changed to {{IPA}} in those entries. --Vahag (talk) 15:21, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
I see. So I will correct them. Maro 15:36, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
That would be nice, thank you. --Vahag (talk) 15:44, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Wiki Conference Yerevan[edit]

Dear Vahagn, I have sent you an e-mail. Regards. --Vacio (talk) 15:43, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

gay categories[edit]

What's the deal with these edits? DTLHS (talk) 23:01, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm putting gay things into gay categories, duh [8], [9]. Why are you reverting my useful contributions? Is it because I'm black? --Vahag (talk) 23:22, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
This is arguably amusing but it's going to screw things up for anyone who legitimately wants to know about Gayo. Equinox 23:29, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
That's it CodePuss, I'm adding your Netherlands to Category:gay:Countries and "cat" to Category:gay:Animals. --Vahag (talk) 23:41, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
You sound like a guy I know. Thing is, he's 12 years old. --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 00:12, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
I hope butthurt isn't contagious :O — [Ric Laurent] — 14:25, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
Are there any hamaseṙamolner in Hayastan? Maro 23:07, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
Kich. Paharannerum. — [Ric Laurent] — 16:06, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
Haha :D. А что они там делают? Maro 13:25, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
Они плачут часто, наверное. Հայաստանն ատում է գյոթվերաններին: — [Ric Laurent] — 13:24, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
Понимаю. Maro 22:43, 20 September 2012 (UTC)


Well, حلاق (ħallāq) means barber, but I don’t think that’s the word you want. دلك (dálaka) means to rub, to stroke, and I think that’s probably the root of your word. However, I don’t know of a form exactly like "dallak". There is دلوك (dalūk) which means liniment, and دلك (dalk) means rubbing, تدليك (tadlīk) is massage, and مدلك (mudállik) means masseur. My guess is that مدلك (mudállik) is the word you’re looking for. (It is possible that *دلاك (dallāk) exists in some dialect, but I don’t know about it.) —Stephen (Talk) 23:27, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

The word دلك (dalk) also means "anointment", close in meaning to massage. source is here. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 23:42, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
Thank you Stephen and Anatoli. That's the family of words I was looking for. I think this is what may have happened: perhaps Persian formed the noun دلاک (dallāk, waiter at baths; barber) [10] from the Arabic verb دلك (dálaka) and from Persian were borrowed Georgian დალაქი (dalaki), Armenian դալլաք (dallakʿ), Turkish tellak. --Vahag (talk) 20:03, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
Oh, so Persian took that form. Needs Persian ک though. That Persian dictionary still uses Arabic letters (which used to be fairly common if someone only had Arabic fonts). —Stephen (Talk) 20:15, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
Yes, it's confusing, some Arabic and Persian letters look alike (at least in some positions) but they are not the same letters but they "reveal themselves" in other positions. As for etymology, you can refer to the Arabic root دلك (dálaka), at least for the time being, it's safer than pointing to any derived form, IMHO. Stephen, is it worth checking Hans Wehr or you have done this already? --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 22:52, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
Yes, Hans Wehr does not mention any other Arabic forms. Persian, on the other hand, does have دلاک. —Stephen (Talk) 00:35, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
Someone left this message on my talkpage:
tellak ▽ 1533Filippo Argenti, Regola del Parlare Turco [1533], ed. Milan Adamovic, Göttingen 2001. tellak
▽ 1680Franciscus Meninski, Thesaurus Linguarum Orientalium [1680], tıpkıbasım(mean:exact press) Simurg 2000. dellāḳ ~ Ar dallāḳ دلّاق [#dlḳ mesl.] su dökücü (mean:water pourer) < Ar dalḳ دلق [msd.] su dökme (mean: water pouring) 20.06.2011


In Turkey we mostly use word "keseci" for practicer originating from Persian word "kese" means rubbing agent or money purse, which can be transliterated as "bath glove", instead of so referred virtually obselete arabic word root dalk (water pouring). 16:53, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
It might have some merit. The verb دلق (dálaqa) means to spill, pour out; and دلق (dalq) is a spilling, a pouring out. I don’t have a resource that lists دلاق (dallāq), but it seems reasonable. —Stephen (Talk) 23:16, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
I had seen دلاق (dallāq) at Nshanyan's website, but I couldn't find that word anywhere. It is possible that Nshanyan reconstructed it without attestation. The best thing to do is to wait for the publication of Garnik Asatrian's forthcoming Persian Etymological Dictionary and to look up Persian dallāk in it. --Vahag (talk) 08:28, 2 October 2012 (UTC)


Man, just calm down.

I will check all the words in the category when I finish nourishing articles with etymology sections.--Dixtosa-wikified me 12:57, 19 October 2012 (UTC)


Hey there! I'm curious about this page. The part-of-speech category is marked as conjunction, but to my eyes it looks more like a postposition (in this case governing the genitive 'dra'). Could you give some more examples of usage ? In my "Grammar of Modern Eastern Armenian" (2009, Jasmine Dum-Tragut), "masin" is in all places glossed as 'post'. Thanks in advance for any insight you might have! - Francis Tyers (talk) 01:03, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

It is a postposition, yes. Postposition and conjunction sound alike in Armenian, կապ (kap) and շաղկապ (šałkap), that's why I must have mixed them. --Vahag (talk) 11:56, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
Aha, no worries, glad I'm not going mad :) One of the things I'm trying to do is take the stuff on Wiktionary and convert it into a (a) morphological analyser and generator for Armenian and (b) a machine-readable bilingual dictionary of Armenian--English — as first step on the way to making a free/open-source MT system. If you're interested I'll keep you updated with my progress. - Francis Tyers (talk) 17:18, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
Cool. Let me know if I can help with anything. By the way, (Eastern Armenian National Corpus) has a morphological analyzer, but it's server is down for the last couple of weeks. --Vahag (talk) 17:55, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
Oh, nice, do you know if it the analyser is free/open-source software ? - Francis Tyers (talk) 21:19, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
No, it's not free/open-source. --Vahag (talk) 21:57, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
Ok, so my work is not yet done! :) - Francis Tyers (talk) 01:39, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

PS. If most of the work on Armenian on Wiktionary is yours, thanks! You're doing a seriously amazing job!!! - Francis Tyers (talk) 01:05, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! --Vahag (talk) 11:56, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
Վահագնն աստված է: — [Ric Laurent] — 13:15, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
Մերսի :) --Vahag (talk) 13:49, 18 November 2012 (UTC)


Hey there! What should {{{deftr|}}} be ? -- Francis Tyers (talk) 19:12, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

deftr is a useless remnant from the old versions of these templates. I removed it just now, don't pay attention to it, it is not used. --Vahag (talk) 19:39, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
Thanks! I have a GCI student working on extracting the inflection for nouns. :) A question about the possessive suffixes... are they entirely regular, or are there alternations ? - Francis Tyers (talk) 19:52, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
Cool! They are entirely regular — inflected form plus -s/-d. --Vahag (talk) 20:29, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
Nice, and they can go on all inflected forms which don't have the definite article ? - Francis Tyers (talk)
Yep. --Vahag (talk) 21:20, 28 November 2012 (UTC)


Do demonstrative pronouns of place take the full case declension, or just the locative cases ? e.g. can you say այնտեղ+instrumental ? - Francis Tyers (talk) 14:05, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

They take only the genitive, ablative and instrumental cases: այնտեղ (aynteł, there), այնտեղի (ayntełi, of there), այնտեղից (ayntełicʿ, from there), այնտեղով (ayntełov, through there). --Vahag (talk) 14:40, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
Thanks! Another question: is there a difference between չի and չէ ? I don't quite understand how the negative of verbs is formed. Can I take the whole verb paradigm, and just prefix չ to any form ? e.g. is it like a pre-clitic ? Or can it only go with some forms of the paradigm ? (e.g. only finite forms). - Francis Tyers (talk) 18:05, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
I have unhidden the negative conjugation in {{hy-conj}}. You can see there how the negatives of verbs are formed. չի is a colloquial variant of չէ. They both mean "isn't". չի is also used as an auxiliary verb in forming the negatives of verbs (3rd person); in this function it's usage is not colloquial. --Vahag (talk) 11:24, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, I've made a table to try and summarise the formation patterns:

TAM Formation Armenian English (gloss) Russian
Present imperf. participle + "to be" (aux) present լինում եմ I am -
Negative present չ + "to be" (aux) present + imperf. participle չեմ լինում I am not -
Imperfect imperf. participle + "to be" (aux) imperfect լինում էի I was Я был
Negative imperfect չ + "to be" (aux) imperfect + imperf. participle չէի լինում I was not Я не был
Future future participle 1 + "to be" (aux) present լինելու եմ I will be Я буду
Negative future չ + "to be" (aux) present + future participle 1 չէի լինելու I will not be Я не буду
Future perfect future participle 1 + "to be" (aux) imperfect լինելու էի I will have been
Negative future perfect չ + "to be" (aux) imperfect + future participle 1 չէի լինելու I will not have been
Present perfect perfective participle + "to be" (aux) present եղել եմ I have been
Negative present perfect չ + "to be" (aux) present + perfective participle չեմ եղել I have not been
Pluperfect perfective participle + "to be" (aux) imperfect եղել էի I had been
Negative pluperfect չ + "to be" (aux) imperfect + perfective participle չէի եղել I had not been
Aorist aorist եղա I am/will be
Negative aorist չ + aorist չեղա I was
Subjunctive future subjunctive future լինեմ
Negative subjunctive future չ + subjunctive future չլինեմ
Subjunctive future perfect subjunctive future perfect լինեի
Negative subjunctive future perfect չ + subjunctive future perfect չլինեի
Conditional future կ + subjunctive future կլինեմ
Negative conditional future չ + "to be" (aux) present + conneg չեմ լինի
Conditional future perfect կ + subjunctive future perfect կլինեի
Negative conditional future perfect չ + "to be" (aux) imperfect + conneg չէի լինի

Judging from this table, the negative չ can be prefixed to the following finite forms:

  • All forms of the auxiliary "եմ"
  • All forms of the aorist
  • All forms of the subjunctive future
  • All forms of the subjunctive future perfect

According to the table on լինել it can also be prefixed to the following non-finite forms:

  • Infinitive
  • Conneg
  • Resultative participle
  • Subject participle

There are the following prefix groups:

  • No prefix: {imperfective, perfective, simultaneous, future I, future II} participle, imperative
  • չ only: aorist, infinitive, resultative participle, subject participle, conneg
  • չ and կ: subjunctive future, subjunctive future perfect

Is that about right ? (PS. Sorry for filling up your talk page like this!) - Francis Tyers (talk) 15:17, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

That seems right, yes. PS Don't worry about filling the talk page. I like when people ask me questions about Armenian. --Vahag (talk) 15:34, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
:) Ok, great, thanks! Next question... the passive and causative, (a) these are derivations? e.g. verb + passive gets the whole verbal paradigm after ? (b) if so, is the verbal paradigm after a passive morpheme regular ? e.g. will it be the same in all cases, or will it depend on the passive stem ? (c) presumably the passive morpheme can only come after transitive stems. In the pages on Wiktionary, can I assume a verb is intransitive if its declension table does not include a passive ? - Francis Tyers (talk) 15:56, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
(a) Both passive and causative get the whole verbal paradigm. Passive verbs are regular verbs. Causative verbs have a different paradigm; cf. {{hy-conj-ցն-ել}} (b) Yes, the verbal paradigm for passive is regular in all cases. See սիրվել (sirvel) as an example. (c) Yes, you can, if I haven't made a mistake by forgetting to add mp=on to the template. --Vahag (talk) 16:28, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
Thanks! Btw, we finished with nouns, you can try a "beta" here, try the phrase "Կոլիբրին միակ թռչունն է, որը կարող է դեպի ետ թռչել:". :) - Francis Tyers (talk) 20:21, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
I played with it a little. Looks very promising! --Vahag (talk) 10:09, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

General queries[edit]

Should գնել and կապել have mp=on ?
Yes. Many verbs miss mp=on because initially the template did not support that parameter.
Is պետք indeclinable ?
No. Armenian can decline anything, like every good language should. There are many incomplete Armenian entries. I'm slowly working on them.
Great thanks :)
Կեսարիա is marked as 'animate' -- should it be inanimate (as a toponym) - Francis Tyers (talk) 01:39, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
Of course, my bad. --Vahag (talk) 10:06, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Would it be helpful to have a list of pages in Category:Armenian adjectives which are not using Template:hy-adj ? There are 42. - Francis Tyers (talk) 14:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

OK, give me the list. --Vahag (talk) 14:35, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
  1. ագրարային
  2. ագրեսիվ
  3. ամաչկոտ
  4. անկախ
  5. անուշ
  6. անպայման
  7. անվեհեր
  8. աշխետ
  9. աշխույժ
  10. ապահով
  11. առույգ
  12. բացակա
  13. բոյով
  14. դատարկ
  15. եռանդուն
  16. զորավոր
  17. զվարթ
  18. թավ
  19. թեթև
  20. խիզախ
  21. խիտ
  22. խորդուբորդ
  23. խորթ
  24. կարճահասակ
  25. կոլոտ
  26. համառ
  27. հաստատակամ
  28. հնդկական
  29. մոտիկ
  30. մուգ
  31. մութ
  32. նշանակալից
  33. նոսր
  34. շարքային
  35. չեխ
  36. պարկեշտ
  37. պինդ
  38. պուճուր
  39. սոսկ
вот! PS. When you create new entries, are you working from a frequency list ? If so, which one ? - Francis Tyers (talk) 15:12, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
No, I don't work from frequency lists. At this point I'm creating the Old Armenian words included in Martirosyan's dictionary, then I create their modern Armenian descendants. --Vahag (talk) 15:25, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Translation request for "state of India"[edit]

I created an Armenian list template for the states of India (which is{{list:states of India/hy}}; not to mention that I also created {{list:states of India/bn}} and {{list:states of India/hu}}) and I would like a translation of the hypernym "state of India". I think it's նահանգ Հնդկաստանի. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 12:12, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Nice work. It's Հնդկաստանի նահանգներ. --Vahag (talk) 12:16, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
You're welcome. Is that singular or plural? I only want the singular form. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 12:20, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
That's plural. Singular is Հնդկաստանի նահանգ. --Vahag (talk) 12:21, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
I gathered the Armenian and Bengali words from here, while I got the Hungarian words from the Hungarian Wikipedia. Have you ever thought about making Armenian list templates? --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 12:31, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I plan creating list-templates in the future. --Vahag (talk) 13:55, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
I noticed that my list template had one word missing: it's Ջհարքհանդ (Jharkhand). --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 11:30, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
Ջարքանդ is a better transliteration. I assume you took Ջհարքհանդ from Armenian Wikipedia. You shouldn't trust it, it's written by uneducated, half-literate people. --Vahag (talk) 12:02, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
Changed their template per that reply. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 12:13, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Verbal inflection[edit]

From reading the grammar (Modern Eastern Armenian), and the templates Template:hy-conj-ել, Template:hy-conj-ալ and Template:hy-conj-ցն-ել, could I draw the following conclusions?:

  • In order to account for all possibilities of stem changes, a program to conjugate Armenian verbs would need to know about the following stems / irregular forms:
    • Present (e.g. tan-)
    • Aorist (e.g. tar-)
    • Passive (if the verb is transitive, with a passive) -- (e.g. tarv-)
    • Causative (if the verb has a causative)
    • Imperative (e.g. tar!-)
  • All the suffixes and prefixes are entirely regular depending on the verb type -el, -al, -c’nel.

In most cases the passive and causative stems will be regular (in -v- and -cʿn-), but sometimes they will be irregular.

Are there any irregular suffixes at all ? -- e.g. that depend on a particular stem ? - Francis Tyers (talk) 21:22, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

For 99.99% of the verbs the program would only need the present stem and the aorist stem. The passive, causative and imperative can be deduced from them. All the suffixes and prefixes are entirely regular for these verbs. The other 0.01% with irregularities are collected in Category:Armenian irregular verbs. They have irregularities in the Passive or Causative or Imperative or Aorist. The set of suffixes is different for գալ (gal), տալ (tal), լալ (lal). --Vahag (talk) 10:53, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
Thanks! I'm going to take a look at it this evening. I may be back with further questions :) PS. Not sure if it is useful, but here is a list of pages in Category:Armenian verbs without a template {{hy-conj-?}}:
- Francis Tyers (talk) 12:31, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Future participle II[edit]

Hey! In my grammar it says that: "It is derived from transitives and passives only; it is formed from these verbs’ infinitive + suffix -ik’." -- however ճաքել is intransitive and has the future II converb. Is the grammar mistaken ? - Francis Tyers (talk) 20:22, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

The grammar is mistaken. You can form future II converbs from intransitives, e.g. գալ (gal, to come) > գալիք (galikʿ, that which will come), կայանալ (kayanal, to occur) > կայանալիք (kayanalikʿ, that which will occur). --Vahag (talk) 07:54, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
Nice, thanks! - Francis Tyers (talk) 08:32, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
PS. Is this a reliable dictionary ? - Francis Tyers (talk) 11:33, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
It's Western Armenian and is OK. No reliable Eastern Armenian > English dictionary exists yet. Not just online, but in print too. Wiktionary is the best so far. For basic words you can use For English > Eastern Armenian I recommend --Vahag (talk) 11:46, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
Ah, ok. And the Armenian Wikipedia, do you know (a) if they use both Eastern and Western Armenian, or just Eastern ? and (b) if they use both is there a way of telling the articles apart ? -- Francis Tyers (talk) 23:22, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
Wikipedia uses Eastern Armenian. Very few articles have a Western Armenian version; you can switch between versions at the top right corner (e.g. in w:Հայ Յեղափոխական Դաշնակցություն). But please note that Wikipedia is not a reliable source for the Armenian language, it is written by half-literate people. If you are looking for good Armenian corpora, refer to the list here. --Vahag (talk) 08:03, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
Aha, ok. So, I should scrape some news site (is RFE/RL Azatutyun any good?). I never like doing that because the results are not redistributable but if the Armenian Wikipedia isn't reliable I suppose it's the only option. Also, are the articles on Aravot in the different language versions translations of one another ? - Francis Tyers (talk) 08:47, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
Azatutyun is good, yes. The articles on Aravot are Armenian/English/Russian translations of each other. --Vahag (talk) 08:52, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
Wow, so now I know how Google Translate added Armenian... :) - Francis Tyers (talk) 09:25, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Example sentences[edit]

All I can say is that you have a real talent... Lightens up my day... :) - Francis Tyers (talk) 23:44, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. But that talent almost got me desysoped :) --Vahag (talk) 08:03, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
"Սիրելի՛ս, ես սիրում եմ տարօրինակ կապրիզներ ննջարանում ժամանակ առ ժամանակ, բայց վրաս քաքելը մի փոքր չափից դուրս էր:" This one made me laugh out loud. :D - Francis Tyers (talk) 08:40, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
The credit for that one goes to my good friend User:Dick Laurent, he made up the sentence. --Vahag (talk) 08:45, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

տորթ for cake?[edit]

An anon added that translation in the entry "cake". Should we trust that? --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 14:16, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

isma suggests yes. - Francis Tyers (talk) 18:58, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
Indeed, տորթ (tortʿ) is the usual word for “cake”. --Vahag (talk) 19:14, 5 December 2012 (UTC)


"որոնք, որոնց, որոնցից, որոնցում, որոնցով"

Are these forms of որ ? - Francis Tyers (talk) 19:38, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, plural nominative որոնք, plural genitive/dative որոնց, plural ablative որոնցից, plural locative որոնցում, plural instrumental որոնցով. Admittedly, the entry որ (or) needs reworking.
Ok. I suspected that :) - Francis Tyers (talk) 20:27, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
By the way, if you're in America, could you please look at this? --Vahag (talk) 20:07, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
I'm in Spain but I'll see what I can do... - Francis Tyers (talk) 20:27, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
Ok, a friend of mine is downloading it, I'll let you have the link when he sends it to me. - Francis Tyers (talk) 20:32, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
вот! - Francis Tyers (talk) 21:57, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
Շնորհակալություն! --Vahag (talk) 09:26, 9 December 2012 (UTC)


Hi. I'm looking for more words to add to the Foreign Word of the Day, and I was wondering if you could suggest some words in Armenian and Old Armenian. The only requirements are that they need at least one citation (a reference or quotation) and pronunciation each. For example, if you add IPA to առածիմ, we can feature that. I'd like to get words that express ideas that are not used much in English as a single word or that express interesting concepts, but aren't too rare. If you have anything from other languages you're familiar with, that would be great as well. Thanks! —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 23:09, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

I can't think of anything interesting right now, I have to think. Adding IPA to Old Armenian entries is not possible, it's phonology is disputed, we don't know for sure how it was pronounced. By the way, I had suggested Russian юзверь for FWOTD. --Vahag (talk) 10:43, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
Well, if there is a certain phonological reconstruction you like for Old Armenian, you can add the IPA preceded by {{a|Reconstructed per Martirosyan}} or whomever. As for юзверь, I like that one but it needs a quote and I don't know enough about Russian to handle that myself. Well, please tell me if you think of something. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 16:31, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
There are certain phonological reconstructions for Old Armenian, but I don't want to study them. юзверь now has some citations. I will let you if I think of interesting Armenian candidates. --Vahag (talk) 17:00, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
Thanks a lot! I'll run it soon. (By the way, I guess it's not exactly necessary, but it would be nice if you'd translate the quotes.) —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 17:06, 17 December 2012 (UTC)


You added a notice below saying "needs expansion". What kind of expansion did you have in mind? —CodeCat 13:28, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

The declension template, which you now added. --Vahag (talk) 13:34, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

User:Ruakh/Tbot.js скрипт для ускоренного создания статей из переводов[edit]


Ползователь Ruakh создал программку для быстрого создания статей из переводов на русский язык. Работает очень хорошо, я протестировал. Нужно только добавить код (зависит от оболочки, которую ты используешь) в Викисловаре и перезагрузить браузер. Склонение, спряжение, синонимы и прочее нужно добавлять в ручную.

Одним щелчком в переводе на русский слова abstinence:



# [[abstinence]] {{gloss|the act or practice of abstaining}}

Остается добавить другие значения (если есть), склонение, и т.д.


автоматически меняется на Russian после сохранения.

Этот скрипт сможет работать и с другими языками, только нужно добавить код языка, но не со всеми одинаково. Сообщи, если интересно, помогу установить или свяжись напрямую с Руахом. (Если не хочешь с ним общаться или тебе это неинтересно, просто проигнорируй мой пост). --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 01:02, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Работает в IE, но не в Хроме. --Vahag (talk) 20:48, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
Ты хромом пользуешся? Вааг, мне спросить у Руаха, что сделать? --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 08:30, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
Да, пользуюсь Хромом. Я сам напишу своему архиврагу :) --Vahag (talk) 08:41, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
Вааг, посмотри ответ на твой вопрос: User_talk:Ruakh/Tbot.js#.22Not_working.22_for_Vahag_and_Stephen. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 04:03, 14 January 2013 (UTC)


Re: your edit. w:Khazars begins "The Khazars (Old Turkic: Old Turkic letter R1.svgOld Turkic letter A.svgOld Turkic letter Z.svgOld Turkic letter A.svgOld Turkic letter G2.svg IPA: [hɑˈzɑɾ])..."; does the Old Turkic count as an etymology, or is that "R1AZAG2", and therefore an unrelated name? I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 18:09, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

No, it doesn't count as etymology, because even if the Old Turkic form is attested, it is of unknown origin, just as Byzantine Greek Χάζαροι (Kházaroi), Old East Slavic козаре (kozare), Persian خزر (xazar), etc --Vahag (talk) 18:29, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
OK. Well, the list of three ?cognates? is certainly better than nothing. However, isn't "Old Turkic 𐰏𐰀𐰔𐰀𐰺 (g²azar¹)" worth mentioning somewhere? If that isn't the etymon, then surely it's a cognate as well. I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 13:35, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
The problem with that Old Turkic form is that it may be unattested. It is possible that some enthusiast "reconstructed" it from modern Turkish Hazar and added to the Wikipedia article. If we found a source proving that 𐰏𐰀𐰔𐰀𐰺 (g²azar¹) is attested and reliable, we should add it to the list of cognates by all means. I haven't found such a source and don't know where to look to. --Vahag (talk) 13:58, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Gotcha. I've asked the salient question at w:Talk:Khazars#wikt:𐰏𐰀𐰔𐰀𐰺. I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 14:26, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Hi VP. Just letting you know: you were right in your suspicion; the Old Turkic form was unsourced. It's no longer in the Wikipedia article, either. I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 17:34, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
I love being right. --Vahag (talk) 17:44, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
:-) Thank you for patiently explaining your concern / suspicion. BTW, regarding this change, is xäzärlär the Romanisation for the Cyrillic spelling of the Tatar хазарлар (xazarlar)? And what is the transcription for the Russian хазары (xazary)? I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 18:30, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
xäzärlär is the transliteration of Tatar хәзәрләр (xäzärlär). My dictionary says the correct spelling is хазар (xazar), but Tatar Wikipedia uses хәзәр (xäzär). Maybe Tatar Wikipedia is more reliable. I added the Russian transliteration. --Vahag (talk) 18:48, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. Now, re "why are we linking to plural forms?", if you prefer linking to singular forms instead, shouldn't we do so consistently? The Byzantine Greek, Hebrew, and Latin cognates are all plurals (as might others be, though I lack knowledge of those other languages, so I can't say). I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 17:53, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
Yes, we should consistently link to the singulars, because singular is the lemma form in Wiktionary. I don't know the singular forms of Byzantine Greek and Latin. Per Vasmer the Hebrew form is kоzаr, attested in IХ–Х centuries. I can't write it in the native script. --Vahag (talk) 10:39, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
I assume that the singular forms of the Byzantine Greek and the Latin are *Χάζαρος (Kházaros) and *Cosrus / *Gasanus / *Gazarus, respectively; however, I would not feel confident in substituting those forms without their attestation. I can't write Hebrew, either. I've requested entries for the five plural forms in question. I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 11:52, 22 February 2013 (UTC)


I just noticed that "an-" is also an Armenian suffix, so it may be compound of ան- + 𐭠𐭬𐭠𐭲, too.. --Z 12:20, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Formally, yes. But borrowing in whole is much more likely. --Vahag (talk) 12:22, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

By the way, about your Pahlavi spellings. Do you reconstruct them yourself from the given Latin transliterations or do you look them up somewhere? --Vahag (talk) 12:57, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

By "transliteration" if you mean conversion of letters (as opposed to transcription), yes, most of the words that I enter are based on transliterations from MacKenzie's dictionary (e.g. YDE > 𐭩𐭣𐭤), and some are directly from Pahlavi inscriptions. --Z 13:09, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Template:temp:ru-noun - three genders?[edit]

Вааг, ты можешь добавить три рода в шаблон? В редких словах может использоваться любой род, как в цаошу. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 03:27, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Сделано! --Vahag (talk) 07:25, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
Մերսի :) --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 10:52, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

шаблон склонения для брюшко (1)[edit]

Привет, Вааг. Какой шаблон склонения подойдет для брюшко́? --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 21:39, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Привет! {{ru-noun-inan-vel-о-2-и}} с дополнениями подошёл, только я думаю "брюшко́в" правильнее, чем "брюшо́к". См. [11] --Vahag (talk) 05:53, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
Спасибо, я тормознул и поленился лучше проверить :) --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 05:59, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

diff, киллер[edit]

Почему? Какая польза или какое правило? --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 21:28, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Правило описано в WT:ETY, "To specify the source language from which a term originates, use {{etyl}}, and use {{term}} to link to the original word itself." Для ссылок внутри обычного текста используется {{term}}, для ссылок в списках слов, например в Synonyms или Alternative forms используется {{l}}, от list. На самом деле единственная разница в том, что {{term}} выделяет курсивом. Желательно поддерживать единообразный стиль. --Vahag (talk) 07:12, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
Понял, спасибо, придется менять привычки. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 10:27, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

decl parameter in {[temp|ru-proper noun}}[edit]

Вааг, если нетрудно, добавь пожалуйста decl в {{ru-proper noun}} для несклоняемых имен собственных. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 03:09, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

В {{ru-noun}}


-->{{#if:{{{decl|}}}| <!--
    -->|off|no|indeclinable=(''indeclinable''){{#ifeq:{{NAMESPACE}}||[[Category:Russian indeclinable nouns]]}}<!--

--Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 03:09, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Но он там уже есть! См. например Плоешти. --Vahag (talk) 05:21, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
Верно, извини. Не обратил внимания, что в Конли и Коннелли другой шаблон. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 05:31, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

новые статьи[edit]

Привет, Вааг, если будет скучно, подсоби, будь другом:) : Category:Russian_terms_needing_attention. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 03:50, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Спасибо, но вряд ли смогу помочь. Дай единственному бедному викиармянину сконцентрироваться на армянском :) --Vahag (talk) 10:43, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
Конечно, хорошо! :) --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 11:38, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

wtf is this word[edit]

խունջիկ-մունջիկ is in a song I like--a song that's probably much more stupid than I realize so I'm afraid to work on translating it, but that word sticks out so hard I can't help asking.

Also, how do you say "wtf" in Armenian? I feel like wiktionary would be immeasurably better if we had this information. — [Ric Laurent] — 21:58, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

խունջիկ-մունջիկ means “coquettish” in vernacular speech. "wtf" is an untranslatable English folklore, can't think of an equivalent, sorry :) --Vahag (talk) 11:34, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
What about something like: ինչ դժոխք է դա նշանակում բառը (какого хрена означает это слово)? —Stephen (Talk) 12:19, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
No, that's a literal translation of "what the hell". I am not very good at Armenian slang: there may be a good idiomatic rendering of English "wtf" that I don't know about. --Vahag (talk) 12:33, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
Vahag is a good boy, he won't know all the dirty bits of language :D — [Ric Laurent] — 15:39, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, he’s a choir boy, all right! —Stephen (Talk) 11:34, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 :D --Vahag (talk) 09:51, 25 February 2013 (UTC)


Спасибо, что исправил, Вааг (татарин)!

У меня есть вопрос к тебе. Я начал делать шаблоны для глаголов User_talk:Stephen_G._Brown#Русские_глаголы. Похоже некоторые глаголы слишком нерегулярные по Зализняку. В русском викисловаре где-то 350 шаблонов. Ты думаешь действительно такое количество нужно? Мне кажется, что например 4-ую группу, разбитую на несколько шаблонов, можно соединить (смотри Talk:гневить#same_conjugation), добавив параметр для первого лица ед. числа. Ты наверное уже думал по поводу шаблонов. Мне интересны твое мнение и совет. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 00:02, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

چرا در اینجا یخچال هست؟‎[Ric Laurent] — 01:15, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Когда-то я купил словарь Зализняка, в бумаге, чтобы изучить и сделать шаблоны для глаголов, как прежде сделал для существительных. С того времени прошло много лет и я стал занятым бизнесменом с ничтожно малым временем и драйвом для Wiktionary :) Когда я вспоминаю как много времени и усилий я потратил на существительные шаблоны, мне не хочется браться за глаголы. Извини, но я вынужден отказаться от участия в проекте создания шаблонов для глаголов, хотя считаю это крайне важным делом. --Vahag (talk) 13:55, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
Я недавно скачал через торрент - "Зализняк А. А. Грамматический словарь русского языка". Я очень ценю твои усилия в русских шаблонах. Нет-нет, я не просил тебя создавать шаблоны для глаголов, просто думал, что ты уже пытался это сделать, разобрался в системности и в лучшем подходе к этому делу. Я понемногу буду добавлять шаблоны. Их слишком много в русском Викисловаре, я их здесь собрал в кучу, включая потенциальные названия в английском Викисловаре - User:Atitarev/Russian_verb_templates. Извини за назойливость. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 21:41, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
Я нисколько не нахожу тебя назойливым. Я не думал о подходе к шаблонам для глаголов и у меня нет мнения. Если начну думать, дам знать. --Vahag (talk) 09:50, 5 March 2013 (UTC)