User talk:Mutante/Archive 1

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Hello, and welcome to Wiktionary. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wiktionarian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk (discussion) and vote pages using four tildes, like this: ~~~~, which automatically produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the beer parlour or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! --EncycloPetey 21:25, 11 April 2007 (UTC)


Please see the Criteria for Inclusion. Duckburg has been rejected before asan entry. --EncycloPetey 00:44, 12 April 2007 (UTC)


We don't use "0" templates on Wiktionary. They serve no purpose here. --EncycloPetey 00:19, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

I wanted to use it because i am always asked if im spanish/portuguese because of my nick, but its totally not important, ok ;) Mutante 00:21, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, here, you'd be asked about Spanish, Portuguese, Catalan, Aragonese, Asturian, Ladino, and Mirandese becuase we have so many more languages that people speak. Having to put in "0" templates for all of those would be silly. Besides, your User page clearly says that German is your primary language! --EncycloPetey 00:25, 14 April 2007 (UTC)


Hey, thanks for all the German entries you've been creating and cleaning. A couple of minor formatting qualms: First, could you please use quotation marks for translations within the etymologies, the parentheses are used for Romanizations of non-Roman scripts (see acataleptic for example). So, for example, the etymology on Sonnenlicht should be
Compound of Sonne "sun" + Licht "light"
instead of
compound of Sonne (sun) + Licht (light)
Also, usage examples should not be italicized, take a look at the changes I made to Informatik. Other than that everything looks fantastic. Thanks. Atelaes 07:06, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Ok, will do. Mutante 11:28, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Huh? Usage examples (made up examples, as opposed to quotations) have always been italicized, with no bullet. DAVilla has been proposing changing that, but it didn't go anywhere the last time (we don't need more bullets!)

FYI: if you use a de-noun- template, you don't need to add Category:German nouns; it is in the template(s). Robert Ullmann 11:50, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Yep. Noticed that now. Does it matter if if remove the "double" category lines? Mutante 11:52, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Don't worry about it, it doesn't hurt in this case, wouldn't bother removing the extra unless you were editing the entry anyway. Robert Ullmann 11:55, 16 April 2007 (UTC)



Did you mean to add a translation to Persicaria? Do German biologists not use binomial nomenclature?

RuakhTALK 16:36, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi, well yes, i added that because the german Wikipedia page "Knöterich" links to the english Wikipedia page "Persicaria" in the "other languages"-part. But other dictionaries also tell me "black bindweed" as translation to (Winden-)Knöterich. And here exists just bindweed. I have removed the translation from Persicaria. Mutante 06:37, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I have checked more dictionaries and also found knotgrass, knotweed and smartweed as translations for Knöterich. Mutante 06:41, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Understandable. In my experience, Wikipedia's interwiki links are often deceptive, because the various Wikipedias have different naming conventions; in this case, apparently the English Wikipedia went with the scientific name and the German one went with the common name. (My favorite example of naming gone awry is w:Fixed-wing aircraft, where they couldn't find a better compromise between American airplane and British aeroplane, so made up a neutral term. The other Wikipedias just use their languages' normal words for "airplane".) At any rate, thanks for taking care of this. :-) —RuakhTALK 13:14, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

About the airplane/aeroplane thing; to be (overly) correct you would have to create us-en.wikipedia and uk-en.wikipedia or something. Then the australians would need their own ,too.. Or Mediawiki software would have to implement "aliased" pages, where a page can be reached under multiple names without one being a redirect to the other. :P Mutante 15:43, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

The possibility of having separate English Wikipedias has actually been seriously discussed, but as you'd expect, there was overwhelming consensus that the project benefits more from having more (and more diverse) eyes reading it than it is hurt by disputes over regional spellings and usages. —RuakhTALK 22:03, 23 April 2007 (UTC)


Aha, I see you haven't yet gotten to the entries in Appendix:Religions. bd2412 T 01:13, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, now i have. Category:English_nouns_ending_in_-ism Mutante 10:13, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Artikellose Lemmas[edit]

Hi. Gibt es irgendeine Richtlinie, wie man deutsche Begriffe handhaben sollte, die eine unterschiedliche artikellose Form haben (z.B. "Kölscher Kaviar")? Ich hab meistens die Form genommen, als ob der Artikel dabei wäre und für die artikellose Form einen Redirect angelegt, siehe z.B. Verlobte. Grund war, dass a) mein Langenscheidt-Wörterbuch das auch so macht, b) in den Übersetzungen ja meistens der Artikel mit angegeben ist (wenn auch nur implizit mit m, f, n). Wäre gut, eine einheitliche Lösung zu finden. Gruß --Zeitlupe 17:36, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Hmm ja, interessante Frage. Ich hatte den Fall auch letztens mal das ich darüber nachgedacht habe, z.B. bei Kanarische Inseln. Ich hatte dann "("die Kanarischen Inseln")" noch hinzugefügt. Gerade beim halven Hahn hab ich den Artikel nur kategorisiert, nicht angelegt, daher nicht drüber nachgedacht. Dein Vorschlag die Form zu nehmen als wenn der Artikel dabei wäre klänge bei "Kanarischen Inseln" irgendwie komisch. Mutante 17:55, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Bei Verlobte würde ich sagen das eigentlich kein redirect sein sollte, sondern zwei Seiten. Verlobte -> 1.) fiancée 2.) fiancé (form with article, also see...) und Verlobter -> fiancé. Nur beide mit

See also: template. Mutante
steht aber im Langescheidt auch unter Verlobte m u. f. Ich fand das auch zuerst komisch, weil Wikipedia ja auch immer die artikellose Form nimmt. Aber wenn man im Wörterbuch mal die eine, mal die andere Form nimmt, könnte jemand denken, dass es "der Verlobter" heisst, oder "das Weißes Haus" --Zeitlupe 18:26, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Was macht denn de.wiktionary in den Fällen? Da hat man sich doch bestimmt ausführlich dazu Gedanken gemacht. Mutante 18:36, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

weiss nicht. Die fraglichen Einträge gab es in de.wiktionary nicht. Die Redirects sind meines Wissens nach in en.wiktionary übrigens auch verpönt, stattdessen sollte man einen verweisenden Eintrag machen. Ich wusste nur nicht, was die korrekte Bezeichnung für artikellose Form ist. Bei Verlobter ist es wohl die unbestimmte Form, bei Eigennamen keine Ahnung. --Zeitlupe 19:40, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
jetzt hab ich doch ein Beispiel in de.wikt gefunden: Beamter steht unter de:Beamte --Zeitlupe 15:13, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
und noch mehr Beispiele, z.B. de:Angehörige. In de.wikt steht immer "adjektivische Deklination" neben dem Substantiv und die artikellose Form hat einen Redirect. Ich werde erst mal weiter von der artikellosen Form Redirects anlegen, solange mir hier keiner auf die Finger klopft. Wenn wir die korrekte Bezeichnung wissen, können wir ja in Zukunft einen verweisenden Eintrag anlegen, z.B. "Beamter - article-less strong declination nominative singular of Beamte", oder wie auch immer die korrekte Bezeichnung ist. --Zeitlupe 15:33, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Transwiki to ...

No, we don't (yet) have enough need for a "transwiki to Wikipedia" type of template. Since they don't have Special:Imports from here, the transwikis need to be done manually.

That said, that particular example seems to have been spam, as it wasn't even in English. So, {{delete}} is likely to be the best option.

--Connel MacKenzie 17:45, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Zeugen Jehovas

This is not a proper noun. A proper noun is the name of a specific person, place, or thing. "Zeugen Jehovas" is a label applied to many individuals, and is therefore just a common noun. --EncycloPetey 23:27, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Template testing

You can test templates in the Wiktionary:Sandbox. What comes to the template you tested, I suggest you use {{plural of}} if you're going to add English (or other) plural nouns.--Jyril 11:19, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Yep ok, i have used "plural of" before, i just found this other one on Wiktionary:Template and what i actually want is add german plurals and have an addition to the "plural of" template, so that i can add the english translation as template parameter. F.e. I just want to insert something like {{plural of|lang=de|Katze|cats}} on Katzen and it creates "german - plural of Katze "cats". Looked first like that other template is made to create new pages and actually includes the souce from template. Also i think penisses should be created as "common misspelling of penises". See number of google hits. Mutante 11:23, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Today's work

Thanks very much for your co-operation today and your article submissions. I think that lots of progress was made today. and Merry Christmas too! --Keene 19:46, 22 December 2007 (UTC)


If you look at the history, you find it was created by Drago (aka Dangherous, aka Wonderfool) who added quite a number of translations for European languages, but was/is not known for anything like fluency except in English. Robert Ullmann 09:44, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Related terms

Hi. Erst mal Frohe Weihnachten! Mir ist aufgefallen, dass du bei globale Erwärmung unter Related terms Treibhauseffekt eingetragen hast. Das erfüllt nicht die Kriterien von WT:ELE#Related_terms (strong etymological connections). --Zeitlupe 05:27, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok, habs gelesen und verstanden. Kommt das dann ganz weg oder geht sowas inhaltlich aber nicht etymologisch Verwandtes unter "Also see" oder ähnlichem? Mutante 09:03, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Etliche Seiten verwenden in diesem Fall See also, ist aber in WT:ELE nicht aufgeführt. Ich weiss es auch nicht, kannst ja mal in einem der Discussion rooms anfragen --Zeitlupe 16:02, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
Ok, dann hab ich auch einfach mal See also genommen. Mutante 20:13, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Category:English nouns ending in -ism

While this is a useful category, you have included some words that do not end in -ism. You see -ism is a suffix, and the words baptism, organism, and vandalism do not end in that suffix. In the case of those words, the -ise ending of the verb was modified to create a noun, which is not the same as adding -ism. --EncycloPetey 05:37, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok, i see your point, but to be overly correct the definition "ending in -ism" as in "the letters i,s and m are at the end" still applies. So maybe the category name is not 100% accurate and should be "..nouns using the -ism suffix"? As said before that may be overly correct though, so if you have already removed the mentioned words from the category its also fine. Happy New Year ! 20:15, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Ein Frohes Neues Jahr! --EncycloPetey 20:16, 31 December 2007 (UTC)


Hi Mutante. Would you like to being nominated for adminship? It would be my pleasure to nominate you (along with User:Zeitlupe). You've been here a while, making good contributions. --Keene 20:16, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, i would not complain about being one. Hook me up;) Mutante 14:26, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Please go to Wiktionary:Votes/sy-2008-01/User:Mutante for admin to accept your nomination. Thanks. —Stephen 19:28, 22 January 2008 (UTC)


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Spion Kreuzzug Holzblasinstrument Rückenmark Duett Beifall Wasserflugzeug Fließband Ausbruch Landfriedensbruch Schlagstock Geschenk Zugriff Kostüm Wurmloch schwarzes Loch Oberlippenbart Projekt Quadrat Scheich Auszug Sauerteig Faultier Sultan Sultanat Schrumpfkopf Betriebssystem Jahrzehnt Irokesenschnitt Heißluftballon Defizit Durchschnitt Apparat Dampfschiff Führerschein Radweg Fahrradweg Durchbruch Sprengstoff Wachstum Dynamit Choral Amulett Sarkophag Kalkstein Taschendieb Taschendiebstahl Einspruch Widerspruch Modul Granit Kurzstreckenlauf Riesenrad Visionär Bußgeld Konflikt Boykott Zertifikat Grabmal Störenfried Schlussverkauf Vulkanausbruch Wasserfall Katarakt Froschmann Hampelmann Haushalt Schlauchboot Potenzial Treibstoff Kraftstoff Prunksaal Butterbrot Gummibaum Arbeitstag Regenwurm Bandwurm Leuchtturm Zölibat Gestank Rollstuhl Ballett Steckenpferd Schlagring Puff Fernrohr Kunstobjekt Objekt Rezept Prekariat Stockwerk Bienenstock Endoskop Syndikat Fallstrick Korsett 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Grundstück Mansarddach Reiheneckhaus Fruchtsalat Ereignishorizont Hilbertraum Fermionen-Kondensat Bruttosozialprodukt

--Connel MacKenzie 18:18, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Genitive2 for de-noun-unc templates

I also used the new genitive2 parameter with the versions of de-noun for uncountable nouns (de-noun-m-unc, etc.), but those templates still need to be updated to actually support them. --Zeitlupe 16:50, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

17:57 <cirwin> mutante: {de-noun-f-unc} {de-noun-m-unc} are also done

18:02 <mutante> cirwin: thank you , and i removed the last (e)'s now i think;)

Mutante 17:03, 19 January 2008 (UTC)


I would like you to take a new look on the article and decide, whether you are now willing to accept Meänkieli as an English word. Hekaheka 09:20, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that page is really improved, i understand a lot better now and removed the rfv template. Mutante 22:13, 29 January 2008 (UTC)


Congratulations, you are now an adminstrator! If you have any questions about what this entails, please contact one of the other administrators. Enjoy your new role. — Paul G 20:51, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, i'll be careful. Mutante 22:47, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Hi there. Now that you have it, could you use "rollback" instead of "undo" to revert vandalism. It undoes multiple edits at the same time and also marks everything as patrolled. SemperBlotto 08:23, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Yep, already noticed that, was just the old habit. Mutante 09:09, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Welcoming, Welcome!

Please remember to use {{subst:welcome|~~~~}} not just {{subst:welcome}}. Thanks! --Connel MacKenzie 11:15, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh ok, i even just used {{welcome}}. :p Mutante 16:00, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Category:Autonomous Oblasts of the Soviet Union

Hi Mutante,

Just wanted to let you know that I started a discussion in the Beer Parlour regarding this cat (and its contents), as it seems to go quite a ways beyond what we have thus far agreed to include in the mainspace. I do not currently have a strong opinion, but think there needs to be some discussion. Cheers, -- Visviva 11:43, 5 February 2008 (UTC)`

Yeah ok, i just categorize already existing pages. One part of that is also that the formerly uncategorized pages are noticed again and eventually get discussed. Mutante 11:45, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Ah, OK, sorry; I thought you had created some of them. -- Visviva 11:46, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

re: 420

I am aware of the usage, but when all information given by the contributor is non-dictionary material it is better to delete outright and allow someone to start it from scratch if an entry is warranted. Just to leave worthless content is a bad idea because pages here are archived elsewhere (, google) and then whatever content was on the page is displayed to the internet at large as "Wiktionary Content", which we don't want. Certainly 420 is worthy of keeping, perhaps 4/20 and 4:20 are (most times and dates aren't, those are debatable) but as it was, 4/20 didn't have anything worth keeping. - [The]DaveRoss 02:40, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Ok, i see, and didnt notice 420 already existed. Would we want to use redirects for cases like this. 4:20 -> 420 because people might search for it, or do we always want to avoid redirects? Mutante 02:42, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Taxonomic names

I noted that you did some work on Persicana/knotweed. I am exploring to see whether we can do something to get agreement on the overall treatment of plant and animal names. If we could get agreement we might be able to set up templates to facilitate whatever special structure there would be to the entries and we might be able to do some mass importing from some sources, since there are so many governmental and nonprofit entities involved. let me know your thoughts and interests at your convenience. DCDuring TALK 16:53, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Part of speech categories

Hi, please consider using the {{infl}} template instead of adding categories directly. Less messy.--Jyril 12:05, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

I do for all German words, i dont know the inflection for the other languages. Mutante 12:15, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Can you tell me what template to use for German proper nouns? Mutante 23:26, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Ok, will do, i learned by now. Mutante 11:21, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Verlies and infl

Would be best if you let it format the whole line, see Verlies as I edited it. (and without abbreviations for forms) Is easier and reduces the number of variants all over the place. Robert Ullmann 17:08, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Ok, i see. Just if there had been no diminutive form given, i would have used {{de-noun-n|genitive=Verlieses|plural=Verliese}} instead. One template would not include the diminutive, the other would not include the genitive.. hmm Mutante 19:19, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


Thanks. Sorry DCDuring TALK 10:23, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

abusasen et al

Try {infl, es, and verb form

instead. It's where other similar entries are categorised, --Keene 23:27, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

black velvet[edit]

Yes, I did. Feel free to flagellate me. Black Velvet 23:57, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

infl and verb forms[edit]

I don't know any reason not to just write {{infl|it|verb form}} ... the POS parameter isn't necessarily supposed to be the header. It is mostly (and entirely at the moment) to generate the cat without having to put Category:Italian verb forms (or whatever) explicitly in each entry; that way a lot of entries get cats even when people don't know they should. Robert Ullmann 12:28, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

So you say i should not use "{{infl|it|verb|cat=verb forms}}" anymore, but just "{{infl|it|verb}}" instead? Well thats what i did before but then i saw Ivan doing this and took that as telling me to change it to the way i did it now. Mutante 18:00, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I think he did that just to fold the cat into infl, without realizing it could be even simpler; since the infl template already had "verb" he left it. Robert Ullmann 18:04, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Ah,ok {{infl|it|verb form}} is different, got it now. Mutante 18:06, 15 March 2008 (UTC)


Hi, could you please add &autominor=true for us who keep track of RC? Thanks! --Ivan Štambuk 18:54, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Sure, will do. Mutante 18:59, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Hello, I think it would be better to use language-specific templates such as {{en-adj}} for English entries. --Jyril 19:32, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Was there no consensus on one template for everything being a good thing? Cause i was told before to start using that. Mutante 20:32, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
The default template lacks plurals, adjective comparison and verb forms et cetera. It's fine to use {{infl}} template for languages one doesn't know, but language-specific are more informative and should be preferred, if possible IMHO. --Jyril 22:11, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Ok, thats how i did it recently, {{infl}} for the English ones where i dont know the plural, and {{en-noun}} if i know the plural is regular or if i know the irregular one. For German words i use those and for all other languages {{infl}}. Mutante 22:14, 24 March 2008 (UTC)


Please be more careful adding templates. Several of your additions to Latin entries (such as this one [1]) are incorrectly formatted. --EncycloPetey 18:50, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Ok, so "g=m" is wrong if it says "m" next to a latin noun?. Mutante 18:57, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

No, the probelm is that the template was partially enclosed in formatting quotes (and is not the Latin template). Also, in this edit [2] you categorized the entry as a noun, but it should be in Category:Latin noun forms because it is a plural. I would be willing to clean these up myself if you tag them with {{la-attention}} --EncycloPetey 19:00, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Or in this case [3], where your edit eliminated important macrons in the inflection line. --EncycloPetey 19:09, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Ok, running a script to identify and mark them. Mutante 19:14, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Done. Mutante 21:49, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Taxon template[edit]

Thanks for using it. Since taxonomic name entries can be standardized, I thought a template was in order. I tried to include the wikispecies box into that template, but the test failed catastrophically. I'll try that again, so maybe it is better not to include wikispecies boxes for now. I don't think its a huge problem if a corresponding article is missing, as it should eventually appear.--Jyril 22:14, 24 March 2008 (UTC)


I think you are right: these are best treated as translingual symbols. It is not itself pronounceable. Sixmo is definitely English. 6mo seems like English, pronounced like sixmo, but may be Translingual. Thanks for taking a look. DCDuring TALK 12:34, 6 April 2008 (UTC)


Would you be willing to recreate this page the next time Special:Uncategorized pages is refreshed? A random sampling of the English words shows a fair number of them have already been hit. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 23:08, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, sure, i already started fetching the new pages. Mutante 06:01, 14 April 2008 (UTC) The script didnt finish before i had to leave the computer. Will update in a couple hours.

Updated. Mutante 13:46, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


First, let me say again that this is a wonderful community cleanup you have started. Thank you for spearheading this cleanup.

I am confused by this edit. The comment is "remove done", but you've actually added a long list of words that appear to all have categories. What happened? --EncycloPetey 19:53, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Uhm, yes, that appears to be a mistake using my scripts here. I have this local mysql database and some scripts, and i must have done something wrong. I will re-check those and fix it tomorrow. Mutante 21:04, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Ok, i checked those that were listed again and removed what was done. Should be fixed now. Mutante 21:19, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Hmm.. now there are some items missing that were there before, but have not been done. For example, coprophagy used to be listed, but isn't now, yet has not been categorized. Script problem? --EncycloPetey 22:00, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Hmm, but coprophagy was and is on the list, also on my revision [4]. Mutante 08:28, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the new categorizing GUI lists. However, one odd thing I've noticed is that only words in LAtin script appear. There are no uncategorized words in Greek script or Cyrillic or Han characters, etc. Whatever method was used for generating the data list did not catch character sets outside of Latin extended. --EncycloPetey 21:41, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it would be quite nice if we could get some non-Latin characters. I'm just itching to hit up grc. If your script can't do that, it's not a huge deal, as they'll show up on Special:Uncategorized pages eventually; but now is always better than later. :-) -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 02:07, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
I toook a long at the raw data, and there are some non-Latin words at the end. However, they all seem to have become garbled somewhere along the way. --EncycloPetey 02:09, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
Actually, I'm seeing a bunch of non-Latin characters within the non-language specified portion ([5]). They're more or less sorted by script. That'll work. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 02:27, 7 May 2008 (UTC)


Hi Mutante, I categorized the Hungarian entries you provided. One of them was not Hungarian: medveď. Thanks for the list, I appreciate your work. --Panda10 20:01, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, i will delete them from the database. Great work.Mutante 20:08, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

More comprehensive categorization[edit]

Would it be possible (like this page did) to analyze the database and get all language sections that don't have a category listed, as opposed to individual pages? The way we do it now, we could be missing a lot simply because only 1 language of the page is listed as categorized. Nadando 02:57, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

That would make the program logic more complicated. Where i can now simply check for the existence of the string "Category:" to decide whether something is already categorized i would have to read all section headers, compare them to a list of possible languages, and compare those to possible categories, or at least "for every section header 'XXXX' there must be a 'Category:XXX*' line". Also my initial source for the list of all uncategorized pages is the same query that mediawiki uses to display Special:Uncategorized pages, and that also doesnt take multiple languages into account. I never went through ALL pages to find those out. I would say its not impossible, but above my technical capabilities, because first one would need to acquire a list of ALL pages (over 800.000) somehow (by begging to the toolserver guys),then import them into a huge database and then go through each one seperately, which would probably take days to finish on my server. So maybe we first finish like this to have an empty Special:Uuncategorizedopages and afterwards we can think about how to find those "semi-categorized" pages in step 2. Maybe language by language then. Mutante 11:10, 7 May 2008 (UTC)


All of the single-language entries at the bottom of this page have been done. --EncycloPetey 23:44, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, i delete them from the database and will run another update soon. Mutante 07:40, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Category:Nahuatl nouns[edit]

This category should not exist. There are many Nahuatl languages. The primary one included here is Category:Classical Nahuatl language, but there are many modern varieties. --EncycloPetey 16:33, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Ok, then pochtecatl & teocalli need to be cleaned up and the language heading changed to whatever variation they are. The language was specified as "Nahuatl" and in w:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes#n Nahuatl is listed as "nah" and infl|nah|noun created that category link though. Mutante 16:35, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I have a small "Nahuatl" dictionary, but it mixes Classical and modern words without indicating which is which. I think Hippietrail is the one currently working to add Classical Nahuatl. --EncycloPetey 16:40, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
The Wikipedia list is in error. The cose nah is not recognized by SIL as a language code: [6]; it is a macrolanguage group [7]. --EncycloPetey 16:43, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
Found another word that is just listed as "Nahuatl": huehxōlōtl. Mutante 12:18, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
I've given it to Ptcamn. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 06:00, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Where'd they go?[edit]

What happened to all my little foreign script uncategorized entries at [[8]]? They were there last night and now nothing. It makes me sad. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 18:45, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

See above, under "Done". "All of the single-language entries at the bottom of this page have been done. --EncycloPetey 23:44, 8 May 2008 (UTC)" so i cleaned up. Mutante 18:55, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Ok, but none of the languages I was working with were on that list. Russian, Hebrew, Arabic.....these languages all had well over one word, and they're gone. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 18:57, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Uhm, i see, that must have happened while cleaning up on the mysql console, like "delete where lang=" or something.. hmmm .. trying to get them back from the original source..Mutante 18:58, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

By the way: Gamilaraay, Esperanto, and Afrikaans are all done now. I've also pointed Frous to the Finnish list, so they may be done in a few days. --EncycloPetey 20:41, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
I fixed that, it is currently updating about 1600 words in Arabic, Hebrew, Yiddish etc, and they are sorted seperately like the other languages, so hebrew, Yiddish, Arabic... Mutante 20:44, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
Good, I see. There are still a few "uncategorized words"; six of these have been deleted (ænigma, τσεχοσλοβακία, Μία, Τρία, Τέσσερα, ιχθύς) and can be removed from the list. I have tagged the seventh (近來) as Mandarin. --EncycloPetey 21:04, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
Updated. Mutante 21:12, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
Yesterday, Stephen took care of most (all?) of the Russian. I see that list has not been updated yet; it should drop the count by about 150. --EncycloPetey 14:08, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

More languages completed[edit]

I have categorized all the entries from Albanian, Lithuanian, Serbian, & Turkish, as well as Āfrika. --EncycloPetey 00:37, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Nice, good work, i removed those. Mutante 06:13, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

It looks as though Atelaes has done all the Hebrew and Yiddish (yay!), and I have done Slovak and Hawaiian. These three odd-ones-out are also done:אבדנא матылёк ουράνιο τόξο have also been done. --EncycloPetey 14:17, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Also these single-language entries: İrəvan 고ᄋᆞ다 тубка тобәкәә --EncycloPetey 17:53, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I finished the last few Indonesian and Old Norse entries. It looks as if SemperBlotto has finished all the Italian. --EncycloPetey 18:27, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Ok, updated and finished Czech and Kurdish too. Mutante 22:20, 14 May 2008 (UTC) (Romanian, too)

The last of the Finnish, Korean, Maori, Maltese, and Tok Pisin are all complete now. --EncycloPetey 22:45, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


FYI: is language code ryu Robert Ullmann 12:38, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, but i also didnt use the infl-template because there were links like and i dont want to remove the links. Mutante 12:41, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

we don't link those in the headword in CJKV (else every single headword would be that way), we use {{ja-kanjitab}} and the like. But in any case, you do know {infl} takes head= ? Robert Ullmann 12:45, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Ah, yes, i forgot that, i think i even used it before. Mutante 12:46, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Odds and ends[edit]

By the way, the few Middle English and Old French have been categorized. There is no ISO code for either, so I hard-coded the categories. A-cai has tended to the Chinese, Cantonese, and Mandarin. --EncycloPetey 13:58, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

FYI, there are {{enm}} and {{fro}} for Middle English and Old French respectively. When in doubt, language box on corresponding wikipedia article usually contains ISO 639-2/3 code, or you can directly search it on SIL's page by language name. --Ivan Štambuk 14:08, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. It's odd that Wikipedia doesn't have this information in the articles. I usually check there first, and in this case they seemed to indicate no code existed yet. I've added fro to w:Old French, but oddly Middle English has a code already listed. I must have hit an article fork yesterday (or was very tired). --EncycloPetey 17:24, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
I usually check here: w:List_of_ISO_639_codes, w:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes Mutante 17:33, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Updated, and at 12989 left. Mutante 15:09, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
We do not use 639-2 codes. We use -1 (2 letter codes) and -3. -2 is completely obsoleted by -3. (the -number has nothing whatever to do with the length of the code, that -3 describes 3 letter codes is a coincidence ;-) Robert Ullmann 17:58, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

All Interlingua words are now done. --EncycloPetey 02:49, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

ACK and ACK, Mutante 07:20, 17 May 2008 (UTC)


Good plan with seksuel. Conrad.Irwin 09:12, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

French Nouns[edit]

Thanks for doing all these French nouns!! [9] ... I was slowly plodding away at them and it really lifted my spirits to see you'd finished them already... ! Thanks! Goldenrowley 02:26, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

 :) Yeah, i am a little impatient ;) Let's get to the huge pile of English nouns now. Mutante 10:44, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
My computer is slow to open each Wiki page, if I can only figure out why I would be able to crank out more ;) Goldenrowley 01:27, 27 May 2008 (UTC)


isn't listed in meta:List of Wiktionaries? Maro is complaining that Interwicket has removed a few hsb interwikis because it "knows" that the is no hsb.wikt ... and it isn't, of course, adding them when missing. Robert Ullmann 15:55, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Alright, added as task to [10]. Mutante 17:11, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

It has been added to [11] and [12] which is a source for manual copy / paste to wiki pages and used in meta:List of Wiktionaries. Mutante 16:52, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

More cleanup[edit]

The following odd words are done: izhitsa kph left brace lightness mks mL note to self n't quittor rapping relocatable power tap push-up reigns ruffly sexa

I've also done a number of Latin nouns recently, and should be doing many more over the next three days. It would be worth updating the Latin list on Tuesday. --EncycloPetey 18:51, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Ok,nice, i have deleted those. Mutante 19:19, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

From this index: [13], I have categorized all the pages listed as Abbreviations, Contractions, Prepositions, Proverbs, Pronouns, and Proper nouns. All the items listed under "Transitive verb" have also been completed. --EncycloPetey 16:46, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, updated. I have also finished the "Numbers", "Cardinal numbers" and "French". Mutante 08:25, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
And "Prefixes" done too.
I have updated the index to sort all those that were listed under "Etymology", "Pronunciation" etc into the correct group. Check again, Petey. Mutante 13:12, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
All the little categories from "Verb form" down are now done. --EncycloPetey 14:38, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
English interjections are now done as well. --EncycloPetey 15:23, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Lots of Latin[edit]

I've completed the following 50 Latin entries: divide_et_impera durante vita egregia_cum_laude fideli_certa_merces faenum famula fasciola fasciolis felem fidelitas fidem filialis flagitium flavum florem foederis frigidulus fulgur fulguri generatio haruspicis helluo helluo_librorum hircus illecebra illecebrosus imperatrix incepto incertae incursio ineffabilis infelicitas infelix initialis inops in perpetuo introducere lugere lupari magnificat magna_cum_laude maxima_cum_laude monstrare multiplico obiit oppugno opto peccamus quadrupes servabo

--EncycloPetey 01:31, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
All 27 of the English "Intransitive verb" entries have been done by Msh210. --EncycloPetey 22:11, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
mysql> delete from uncat where lang="English" and type="Intransitive verb"; Query OK, 27 rows affected (0.04 sec). Thanks, and i have done the English idioms. Cheers, Mutante 22:13, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

a pussy so tight no dick penetrates[edit]

I've deleted the above as, with only 24 google hits, it seems fairly unlikely to meet CFI. Though If I'm wrong, obviously revert me. Yours Conrad.Irwin 15:22, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, I didnt invent or make it up. I remembered it when i saw never eat Shredded Wheat. It was even used by students in my class over here in Germany. Because it is sexual it works good as a mnemonic. Not sure if i know enough about CFI to judge on those mnemonics. But see en.wikiquote. Mutante 19:37, 30 May 2008 (UTC)


So where is my favorite German compound noun? Nuklearatomischlaudenboomer? Huh? (Okay, maybe it isn't a German word ;-) Robert Ullmann 13:01, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I tried hard to find a nice one for you, i hope you like Kühlmittelverluststörfall. Greets, Mutante 13:17, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Ja, sehr gut! Danke. Robert Ullmann 13:38, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Past tense and past participle of schwören[edit]

Hi, Mutante. In this edit, you added a conjugation table for schwören with a past tense of *schwörte and a past participle of *geschwört, rather than schwor and geschworen. I assume the forms you listed are just mistaken, so I corrected them with this edit, but let me know if you think they are alternative forms or something. Rod (A. Smith) 18:59, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

geschworen is definitely right, yes, geschwört is just a popular mistake, it's not correct German but people use it. But the imperfect i think is neither schwörte nor schwort, but just schwor. Mutante 21:14, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

More Latin categorizing completed[edit]

I've categorized all the following entries for Latin: ieiunus ignivagus injuria intactus intellegentia internexus interventus inundatio ioci ioculator iracundus italicus iuris ius_primae_noctis lardum laridum latet_anguis_in_herba librarium librorum lilium lodix lucrum materterae membrum nobis pollice_verso sub_nomine vox_clandestina

Also completed: (1) all Latin verbs, (2) all Latin adverbs (3) all Arabic words (Stephen finished the last three). --EncycloPetey 16:47, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok, thanks, deleted those from my db. Mutante 10:06, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

infl vs en- templates[edit]

infl is generally inferior to the various en- templates in what it does for English language entries. Though it does have the satisfying effecting of eliminating uncategorized entries, it simply shifts them to the class of English language entries that need a proper template to replace infl. {{infl}} is sometimes the best tool in English for phrase entries (phrasal verbs, idioms, proverbs), prepositions, conjunctions, pronouns, articles, and determiners, but not for nouns, adverbs, verbs, adjectives, and interjections. DCDuring TALK 18:03, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, i do use en-noun whenever the plural is already given or when i am very sure that a standard plural exists. The infl template has the advantage that i am not forced to decide about the plural because i am not always sure, not being a native speaker. Likewise the en-adj template; i am not sure enough if there are comparative forms or not, then i use infl|en|adjective instead. And on recent IRC discussion we agreed that the infl template can be indeed seen as a first step of categorizing and then native speakers look for the words using infl and even make them better by replacing with the more specialized templates where necessary. I just wanted to avoid adding any wrong data, so i used infl if the page did not contain plurals and derived forms before i edited it. Mutante 18:32, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

I was not party to the agreement. It certainly wasn't a vote during my tenure. I don't recall seeing any sign of such a conversation in BP, though I could have missed it. I regularly worked the uncategorized list and found it easy to use with a high yield of entries that had multiple problems. The list of entries including {{infl}} has so many non-English and valid uses of infl among them that it is not worth my spending time on them. DCDuring TALK 19:08, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
Then perhaps when the current categorization project is completed, Mutante would be willing to set up another page and interface for the contents of the infl-category? --EncycloPetey 20:15, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
That would be nice. I've always wondered about the idea of a multiple-identified-problems list, especially classified by language section. rfc sometimes serves for that, but the nature of the problems is not clear, so one can pick an item about which one can do little. DCDuring TALK 20:57, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

More Latin categorized[edit]

If you have not already removed these from your list, they are now done. --EncycloPetey 06:01, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

ducenti duodecas dyodecas hebdomadis hexas septuaginta undecem vox et praeterea nihil vox faucibus haesit

Some more that can be removed form the list. --EncycloPetey 01:46, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

macrior maestus magicus majora marmorata masculinus mater_lectionis melior membrum_virile memoriam mensura metaplasmus microcosmus miles_gregarius minora mirabilis monstrum montanus monticola munus muraena murex nitidos noctivagus novellus nudus nugatorius obses ominosus omnium omnivagus ornus ossifragus

The following have now been done and may be removed from the master list:

maximus_in_minimis nil_admirari novellus palatium palmarium palmatias paradisus paraffinum paraffinum_molle_album paraffinum_molle_flavum parvitas passerculus patruus pelagus pelta peltastes peltifer periculosus pernecessarius pernix persica picus phagedaenicus phantasticus phoeniceus pisces piscosus pius plurimus pontifex portabilis potestas praescientia prandium prognosticon promontorium proprius pseudopropheta pseudoprophetia psoleos psychomantium pugio pugiunculus pulchritudo

--EncycloPetey 04:30, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, deleted. Mutante 09:04, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

reification Verdinglichung Reifikation[edit]

I have inserted an etymology for reification that could stand being looked at by a German philosopher. I know you are a German speaker. Philosopher? I also wonder whether Reifikation is actually a German word and when it came to be used, if it is. Any help appreciated. If you can't, please refer me to someone who might be able to. DCDuring TALK 21:49, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi, i am currently on vacation and i did not know the word before, but i asked a couple friends and i did indeed get an example sentence, so the word does exist in German. "In der Soziologie werden durch die Reifikation abstrakte Begriffe wie beispielsweise "Identität" oder "Einstellung" mit Hilfe einzelner Indikatoren so konkretisiert." But i hardly understand that myself. I will try to find more later. Mutante 13:15, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the time to help. Obviously not urgent. Philosophy-speak can be strange. In this case a borrowing of an English (or French?) word that was coined to translate a German word. I just wanted to make sure that it was not completely phony. It should be an entry both at en and de.wikt. I'd be curious as to whether there were differences in meaning that a normal human could detect. Thanks again. DCDuring TALK 14:23, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
And see Citations:reified, for which we do not yet have an entry. Robert Ullmann 14:46, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Latest on Latin[edit]

Another batch of Latin categorization is completed. --EncycloPetey 20:54, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

post_meridiem psittacinus publica puerilis pulpitum purpureus quadrigae radicalis rancidulus rancidus recensio reduvia regalis regem relativus requies restrictus rhetor rhetoricus rufus ricinus rosarium rufus rutrum sagittarius scriptum

Another batch done: --EncycloPetey 00:52, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
sanitas securis sedis semihomo semimas sensu servitudo sexennium signatis silvestris silvicola silvifragus socrus solaris spe spelunca spem sperum strix strongyla struix sulpur superbia syllaba symphonia ulva undicola unitas urniger urbi_et_orbi

Template:genitive of[edit]

The template {{genitive of}} adds now automatically the category [[Category:language_name noun forms]] if called with an optional parameter lang. There is no reason why entries for German genitives should be handled any different from German plurals (except for the name of the category). Apart from this detail, the functionality of {{genitive of}} and {{plural of}} were largely identical anyway. -- Gauss 14:52, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Ok, can you point out which of my edits you saw that made you post this? Mutante 14:56, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

It was a notification on a new functionality that makes changes as in Experiments (prone to error), Instruments or Ministers for the future unnecessary. Besides, you are very active in Wiktionary:Categorizing; similar changes to other templates could possibly save quite some work, and you might know which ones (I don't have an overview there really). Moreover, you are administrator and therefore could even make such changes to protected templates. See also my very recent discussion with DCDuring. -- Gauss 15:20, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, i see what you mean now. Mutante 15:52, 5 August 2008 (UTC)


An anon has changed this verb, and asked me to move it to lizenzieren. My German is not good enough to know if this should be done - I'll leave it to you. Cheers. SemperBlotto 08:17, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Spontaneously i would have answered "No, lizensieren is right, but after some research i found that indeed lizenzieren is correct. lizensieren is a very common alternative spelling though. The reason seems to be that Lizenz is from Latin licentia, and lizensieren is an Anglicism from to license / licensing. See f.e. [14] & [15]. Since it is a common question of even native speakers, both versions should be included along with additional information. Mutante 09:25, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Latin nouns done[edit]

I've categorized all remaining Latin nouns and phrases; only the adjectives remain to be done. The following words can be removed from your list: --EncycloPetey 05:56, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

tablinum telum topazos tribas tridentiger trifolium tristitia triumphatorius tropaeum turpiloquium typographus tyrannicidium vagatus venena ventulus vesci vesica_piscis vetera veteres vitae vitellus viverra volantes vota_vita_mea vox_barbara vox_Dei
mysql> delete from uncat where lang="Latin" and type!="Adjective";

Query OK, 26 rows affected. Thank you, Mutante 12:20, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

All Latin words now done. --EncycloPetey 04:40, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
Nice, good work! Mutante 11:19, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Nicaraguan Spanish[edit]

Are you sure about those words. Some of them look a bit dodgy to me. SemperBlotto 16:47, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Not sure enough, thats while you wrote this i wrote on Wiktionary:Requests_for_cleanup#Nicaraguan_spanish. ;) Mutante 16:55, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

noinclude in Faroese templates[edit]

Be careful, when adding noinclude tags to the end of template, that there is not a line break between the last character in the template and the opening tag, i.e.:

|}<noinclude>[[Category:Faroese declension templates]]</noinclude>


<noinclude>[[Category:Faroese declension templates]]</noinclude>

as the extra line space will be included in every article that transcludes the template, sometimes causing unwanted (and unexpected) results. – Krun 09:03, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh, thank you, i didn't realize that. Unfortunately i have to change quite a few then. Mutante 09:22, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

German strong / weak declension[edit]

Hi Mutante. I've seen that we still disagree on where to place the main entry for German nouns that have more than one nominative singular case forms (weak and strong declension, e.g. Beamte and Beamter, or Jüngste Gericht and Jüngstes Gericht). As we have previously discussed, some German dictionaries always use weak declension, others always strong declension, so both options would be possible. I would favour weak declension, because it seems that the German Wikipedia also uses this convention and that would make the interwikilinks more meaningful. Anyhow, we should decide to use one convention only for consistency. The entry for the other form should still exist, of course, but be maybe treated like an inflected form entry (see Beamter for how I do it now). One remaining problem is that for weak declension, the female form of the noun is usually (always?) often the same (der Beamte, die Beamte), which does not work well with the de-noun templates, if only one such template is allowed per noun section. Using different etymology sections, like recommended by some of the admins in similar cases, also sounds weird here, because die Beamte is only the female form of der Beamte, not a completely different word. Maybe we should put that question up on a help page to see what long-term admins propose? Cheers --Zeitlupe 22:03, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Ah, yes, you probably refer to my creation of radioaktiver Abfall. I usually just avoided creating those words, because i was not sure about how to create them, but that one was already linked to from "radioactive waste" like this. And see, it is also in this form on de.wp. I agree we should probably put the question on a help page. But about Beamte specifically: I would have thought the female version is Beamtin. Mutante 06:06, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

yes, bad example :-(. it's die Beamtin, of course. Here is a better one: der Blinde, die Blinde ("blind person"). Is there actually a portal or other Wiktionary page existing, where we could discuss policies related to the German language? Or could you set one up as an admin? It would be better to have the discussion there instead of using user talk pages. Thanks. --Zeitlupe 17:07, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

I copied it to Wiktionary:Beer_parlour#German_strong_.2F_weak_declension. Mutante 08:30, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


In this entry, I think [[Pfeils]] should be under an "Alternative spellings" or perhaps "Alternative forms" (I've never really understood the distinction between the two) header. See also is supposed to be reserved for the same spelling with different capitalization and/or diacritics. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 00:46, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Ok, thank you, i changed quite a few to use "Alternative spellings". Mutante 08:31, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

but this is not an alternative spelling. It is an alternative form of the genitive and it is pronounced differently. --Zeitlupe 18:06, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Then perhaps it is Alternative forms and not Alternative spellings. One of these days I should really get someone to explain the difference between those two to me. In any case, it should not be {{also}}. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 19:13, 29 October 2008 (UTC)