User talk:Nemzag/2011

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wiki board[edit]

I want to ask you can I add in a wiki board such thing.

The board look like this :

??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
??? ??? ??? ???

And I want to add a information in this form

|| ??? [ipa] ||

Between two || ||

I suppose that it looks like "|| ??? (have to add something here but what ?)[ipa] ||"

Thanks hope you understand, because I speak french... email comment from User talk:Nemzag

I don’t understand what you are asking. What is a wiki board? Do you means a table? If so, where do you want to put the table, in your talk page? Sorry if I misunderstand what you are saying. —Stephen (Talk) 23:41, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Well don't vorry, I'm sorry for my English, I would like to add info in two line (one under other), between two column (word with ipa pronunciation under)... And I'm asking how to do that using a SYMBOLE CODE or else. Hope you understand. Thanks for help anyway. Gmazdên 23:48, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

I still don’t understand. Are you asking how to make a table? Or where to find IPA symbols? Do you mean how to make a two-column table? —Stephen (Talk) 00:02, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Hi, no no, i'm asking how to add two line text (one under other ; word & with ipa) in one cell column of table... Like this...



In onë cell of the column, two line (one under other)... Gmazdên 01:04, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, here is one possible example:
—Stephen (Talk) 02:30, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
Are you asking how to make line breaks? If so, it's <br>. --Yair rand (talk) 02:39, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Steven, i don't wan't use you method because i use a "wikitable sortable", so using a line like you do, would cause problem if I reorder... Yair Rand I tried your command...


Has you can see it work, I tested in wikipedia and is functioning, how to align table vertically to have same position with one or two line text ??? Gmazdên 09:45, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Stephën, this is cell command, but for the whole board ? Gmazdên 00:27, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

I’m afraid that I do not know enough about HTML to be able to tell you a vertical-align command that applies to the whole table. It is a difficult subject for me. —Stephen (Talk) 02:22, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for response, I asked Yair Rand by PM but I didn't had response... Gmazdên 02:28, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

NA [na] & NË [nə] or NÊ [nɛ], UNË & UNÊ[edit]

Hello, (mister you replaced etymology by your version, please keep info added by others (respect the works of those who spend their own time to complete info), add content, don't erase.

Macedonian Shqiptar don't use but NA نا‎ (TE NA, TE NENA ΑΘΗΝΑ [atʰɛna]), and I would like to explain that we are Muslim from 500 years now. So lot of words that we use came from the holy Coran, and albanian language use the arabian grammar (like plural using AT -ات‎and ËT at end of word)...

Në [nə] is modern dialectal version from Shqipëria / Albania, also some other cities uses NÊ [nɛ]...

NA came from arabic نا‎ & Unê or Unë is deviated from arabic أنا‎ or latin uniô & unus.

It's logical. Since we are Muslim (pacifist) (Albania is a member of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference (Muslims comprise 33.3% of the population of Macedonia, Macedonia has the fourth-highest proportion of Muslims in Europe, after those of Kosovo (90%), Albania (70%), and Bosnia-Herzegovina (48%).[89] Most Muslims are Albanian, Turkish, or Roma, although some are Slavic Macedonian Muslims.)... Gmazdên 06:14, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

ÊNÊ & UNÊ are more equal & similar than your totally strange etymology explication (From Old Albanian u(I) followed from the particle - (na & nê in gheggian) ; compare ti and (dialectal) tinë.). And what does ti & tinë means ? Gmazdên 06:22, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

If you use old albanian / latin, give source of your U meaning (i wan't to read that book, if its vladimir orel from Tel Aviv university, this book is based on reformed dialect and contains lots of errors, the Orel definition link to νή () & ναι (nai) who means screen & yes, what relation with Me or Us ? I checked there are no Arabian reference in this book), U means WAS and is used with U KAN (mk : he was / sq : ka qenë) again arabic term كان(kān), He & I are not the same. You don't have profile, you speak albanian but do you speak arabian ? I also noticed that you just erase content of other by adding fake source (like for zot & mbret), so if you add something keep others contributions or one day, someone else, would delete your add... Gmazdên 11:39, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Unê | Unë Etymology[edit]

From Old Albanian u (“I”) followed from the particle -; compare and tënë. Deviation of أنا(’ana, I), from نا(na, us, we).

This etymology is confusing and needs a lot of work. It gives two different sources for unë, either from u+në or from Arabic أنا‎. Also, there is no explanation of tinë. Tinë has to be explained, and the two different sources have to be resolved somehow. —Stephen (Talk) 02:01, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
Let me explain something :
First I never eard someone using U in daily life communication but UN [un] (I, Me, One 1=I, Unique, Unus )... I never eared about TINË (your) but only TËNË→TËNDË (sq) / TANË [tɑn] (mk) !!! (I have eared TI (you) in some dialectal song, but for TINË).
Don't confound NA/NÊ (US) with the -NË [nə] (word extension) remplaced by reform by -RË [ɾə] like TINË (mk) → TIRË (sq) "your", ATYNË (mk) → ATYRË (sq) "those", EMËN (mk) → EMËR (sq) "NOMÊN : name", FEMËN (mk) → FEMËR (sq) "femina : woman".
We (macedonian, kosova alabanian) differentiate the NË / RË extension (generaly end of word) with the نا(na, us) NÊ [nɛ] (we) NA [na] (us) & أنا(’ana, I) UNÊ [unɛ] UNUS) that the Reformed albanian don't distinguishes, Gheggatë use more vowel than Toskian (nazal [ĩ, ɛ̃, ɑ̃, ɔ̃, ỹ, ũ]), standard [e, ɑ] & [ɒ] (persian sound).
Your combination (ti "you" & ti+në "your" & u : ??? & unë : "I", "Me") is false, cause "My" in Scipio is IM [im] / IÊM [jɛm] and not in our UN case : UNNË (mk:[un+nə]) / UNRË (sq:[un+ɾə]) :
("You") TI → ("Your") TI+NË ≠ U+NË because "I") is not "MY" who is IM (sq) / JÊM (mk) and NOT UNËNË / UNÊNË.
  • UNÊ/UNË is "singular I" (from uno, unus, unique, 1=I),
  • TI/TÊ/TË is "you singular" and became "your singular" if you add add NË/NÊ(mk) | RË/RÊ (sq) at end (TINË→TIRË KËTYRËVE (sq), TANË KTYNËVÊ (mk)), so if TI+NË = "your" the combination of UNË/UNÊ "I singular" would be UNËNË/UNÊNË : "my" but we use IM / JÊM [jɛm] and not UNËNË / UNÊNË. UNË & UNÊ is not combined form but an original word (arabic)
  • NA/NÊ/NË is "Us, We plural" ("TE NA" : among us : from ΑΘΗΝΑ ΟΥΡΑΝΟΣ (OuRANOS) = Quran القُرْآن
    ΑΘΗΝΑ [atʰɛna] TE NENA [te nena] to great mother) ; NA & ANA in Arab exist since 630, much older than you modern 1400 books...
Prove that NA & ANA/ÊNÊ - UNA/UNÊ is from arabic origin. Gmazdên 02:23, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
English Reformed
Dialect Root Source Variation
I UNE [un·ɛ]
MUA [mu·a]
UNÊ [un·ɛ]
MUÊ [mu·ɛ]
I : أنا‎ | אני‎ [ani] (I, me) ↔ ina (we are), i na (of us)
Me UNË [un·ə]
MË [mə]
UNË [un]
MU [mu]
Me : لي‎ | לי
me [me] مه‎ ↔ them هم
ме (me) мене (mene)
με (me) μι (mi) μου (mou)
We NE [nɛ] NÊ [nɛ] We / Them : هننا‎ | הןאנו‎ [enu] ↔ une (me, I)
ние (nie) [nie]
Us NË [nə] NA [na] Us : لنا‎ | לנו
ina (we are), i na (of us) ↔ אני‎ [ani] (I, me)
нас (nas)
My (m) IM [im]
IME [imɛ]
JAM [jam] (i'm)
JÊM [jɛm]
JÊMÊ [jɛmɛ]
JAM [jam] (i'm)
me [me] مه‎ ↔ them هم‎ (εμάς (emás) / εμείς (emeís))
ми (mi) [mi]
My (f) TIM [tim]
TIME [tim·ɛ]
TÊM [tɛm]
TÊMÊ [tɛm·ɛ]
me [me] مه‎ ↔ them هم‎ (εμάς (emás) / εμείς (emeís)) latin
Our TONË [ton·ə]
TÔNË [tɔn·ə]
Ours YNË [yn·ə]
YNI [yn·i]
JÔNË [jɔn·ə]
Of us NEVË [nev·ə]
NEVE [nev·ɛ]
NEVË [nev]
NEVÊ [nev·ɛ]
You TË [tə] TÊ [tɛ] TI [ti] te [te]
ти (ti) [tɛ → ti]
Your NË→NDË [tənd·ə]
NE→NDE [tənd·ɛ]
TAN [tan]
TÃNÊ [tɑ̃n·ɛ]
TINË [tin·ə]
TINÊ [tin·ɛ]
teneô tenire tiens latin n [n] ↔ nd [nᵈ]
Yours NI→NDI [tənd·i] TÃNI [tɑ̃n·i] TINI [tin·i] teneô tenire tiens latin n [n] ↔ nd [nᵈ]
Your TUAJ [tu·aj] tua [tu·a] latin
Yours TUAJI [tu·aj·i] tua [tu·a] latin
Your YT [yt] YT αυτές (aftés) [aites]
Your YTI [yti] YTI αυτές (aftés) [aites]
Your (pl) JUAJ [juaj] You (pl) : JU [ju]
Your (pl) JÔTI [jɔti] You (pl) : JU [ju]
Him ATË [at·ə] ATË [at] αυτόν (aftón) אותו greek
Them (pl) KËTA [qət·a] KTA [qt·a]
These KËTO [qət·o] KTO [qt·o] αυτοί (aftoí) greek
Of These KËTYRËVE [qətyɾəvɛ] KTYNVÊ [qtynvɛ] n [n] ↔ r [ɾ]
Those ATYRËVE ATYN ΑΘΗΝΑ [atʰɛna] related to אותן‎ & αυτές (aftés) n [n] ↔ r [ɾ] like Zotëri (sq) & Zôtëni (mk)
Of us NEVE [nevɛ] NEVÊ [nevɛ] Prove of falsification, compare nevê, yni with atynvê & ktynvê


It is very difficult to understand what you are saying. First, no, I don’t know of any Albanian admins, Gheg or Tosk. You might ask at sq:Diskutim:Faqja Kryesore and at w:sq:Diskutim:Faqja Kryesore.
I am trying to understand you. I changed the above etymology to reflect some of what you said, but there is still the unacceptable confusion about an origin from Old Albanian (as above) or from Arabic, or even from Latin (which you mentioned down below somewhere). There is only one path, there cannot be two different paths. Are you saying that nobody knows how unë evolved, and that these are three possibilities? —Stephen (Talk) 02:36, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Listen Arabian are Ruman Army : Bismila Al-Rêmên Al-Rêyim Al-Rumi (the noble רום‎ | روم‎)... Arabian Alabanian are linked to latin, and some word are used in latin & arab look criminel and جرم‎ [grim] or aequitas [ɛqwita] & حق‎ [ɛq], these word are related, the erroneous pronunciation divide (sect). In egypt ج(j) [ʤ] is [g]. Well I don't know but NA ("us") is NA & not NË ; UNË ("I") is a complete word and not a combination since my is IM / JÊM, and you "TË" became your when "TË+NË", UN+NË (my) don't exist, also UNË is not "my" but "I" and it's not a combination of U+NË who should means "my" if TË+NË is "your" !!! Gmazdên 02:44, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

I prefer to wait for a gheggian admin, cause the sq page use the reformed dialect, and I prefer to don't use this one... Hope someone make a ghegian/mk/kosova Wiktionary page. Gmazdên 03:24, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

I don’t think we are ever going to be able to communicate well enough to go forward from here. The above etymology is essentially what you had in your edit here, but now you seem to be saying that it was all wrong. I can’t figure out what you are proposing for an etymology. —Stephen (Talk) 03:26, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks that you try to understand, but I prefer to wait for gheggian admin and a gheggian wiktionary page, I don't like to use SQ one cause it's use falsificated version of Tosk (greek shqip : orthodox), I just say don't believe the reference from Vladimir Orel (Tel Aviv), using an hypothetical invented old albanian, based on a falsificated version of Tosk (some word are writed in the two version, but lot of word don't show variation), also this book use for reference old book from german, italian, slavic but no Arab, Persian, Hindu (tzigane, roma, ashkali) or Turkish source, all these people tried to conquer Albania in 1914-18 and 1940-45, since 500 years the gheggian language has evolved and we use lot of word from lot of foreign language (persian, turkish, arabic, slavic, latin this make richness of shqip : Etymology). So please prohibite use of this book has valid source for original gheggian shqip etymology... That's all. Gmazdên 03:36, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

About some Albanian word like hypje (up : υψος (ypsos) / ὑπέρ (hupér) [ʰyps·os / ʰyp·er], p148 : "Albanian Etymological Dictionary"), is a gheggian language from Macedonia & Kosovo (adopted in media instead of Enver Hoxha dialect) and who is distinct from reformed Albanian based on Tosk (orthodox where Ypsilon (Old Ellêniqa) became Ipsilon (Modern Greek : 3 [i] ita, ipsilon, iota) and C/Qoppa [q] C/Gamma [g] (O.E) became Kappa [k] or Ghamma [ɣ] [(M.G), it's the reason why albanian use K for sound c/q [q] & k [k], where other Latin language use c like prefix com- ; I noticed that Beobach checked and reverted some of my add (perun, hypi (mk / ks) / hipi (sq) : is there a tool to know all if his reverting on my contribution ?), it's not nice, since those word exist & are true. You use falsificated dictionary based on toskian & reformed shqip, you don't know the gheggian language & there is no gheggian admin to confirm my add... So please be tolerant, I'm conscious that I'm just a student who try to add some content for all world, perhaps i'm make mistake, but just be more comprehensive and positive upon me and improve not remove. I have been blocked one month by dictator like Ivan Štambuk (for telling that obedience is عبد‎ / عباد‎) or reverted by Vahag (mbret / zot) using book writed by Vladimir Orel (Israel, Tel Aviv), but I keep in mind that 10 years ago Serbian Orthodox / Slavic Communist take pleasure to exterminate my people & falsificate our language in 1947 after victory against the National Socialist... Thanks to be more open-minded toward other (respect article 19 of U.N.O Universal Human Rights), if this Wiktionary is just about political interest I will not add any more entries, since I just lose my time if someone else remove my add... (also I'm sure that etymology of Obediô from Oboediô is not Ob+Avdiô) Gmazdên 04:06, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

For Etymology I propose to keep the link to أنا(’ana / êne, I), to remove the comparaison of TI & TINË & TË & TËNDË, since i proved is false in my explication, to remove U, and Keep Un, from Latin Unus, Uno, Unique (I, 1, Unë Ênê) & NA نا(na, us, we) and not NË who was end of word replaced by RË (in 1947 to divide & confuse comprehension between latin language)... And I proved to you using some latin exemple (EMËN (mk) → EMËR (sq) (NOMÊN : name), FEMËN (mk) → FEMËR (sq) (femina : woman) that these are falsification. I believe the source, not the deviation... Gmazdên 08:32, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

I finded a better etymology for Tënë (Tëndë) / Tänë from latin TENEÔ, french TENIR & TIENS (yours). Gmazdên 20:36, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Unë & Unê ([Omnipaedista][edit]

Hi, why do you not keep the arabian link of unê ??? Why do you believe a book from Slavic Israeli ? Instead of opinion of Albanian Muslim ? I don't understand. This book is fake and don't use it for my land etymology, because, it's the communist anti-imperialist who falsified albanian rômanian words (1947 Enver Hoxha (אנור‎ / أنۋر‎)), and this book is made upon the falsificated dialect that they try to impose by trickery to all, I checked in, there is no arabian reference inside... So please stop remove my contribution using this false reference, also you don't speak shqip or arab (Albania is a member of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference). Thanks Gmazdên 00:26, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Macedonian Shqiptar don't use but NA نا‎ (TE NA / TE NENA [te nena] ΑΘΗΝΑ [atʰɛna]), and I would like to explain that we are Muslim from 500 years now. So lot of words that we use came from the holy Coran, and albanian language use the arabian grammar (like plural using AT -ات‎and ËT at end of word)...

Në [nə] is modern dialectal version from Shqipëria / Albania, also some other cities uses NÊ [nɛ]...

NA came from arabic نا‎ & Unê or Unë is deviated from arabic أنا‎ or latin uniô & unus. Since 500 years the language has evolved so don't try to find etymology using only old albanian reference. Gmazdên 00:34, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Hope, Wiki allow new historic view : "suppressed content visible"[edit]

Hi, a lot of add are suppressed but keeped in history, sometime it would be interesting to see the point of view of other deleted abusively, so I'm hoping, that the Programmer add a function (in option) or link to wiki page, to be able to see the page with suppressed content displayed in red or green, using history information and a intelligent phrase structure and word recognition algorithm ... Like that the page would be more complete, and the suppressed content visible to all, despite censorship. Hope !!! Gmazdên 07:22, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

You can link to an old revision like this: Older revision of unë. —Stephen (Talk) 02:18, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I know this function but I would like a merging process using all history and not just one variation. Gmazdên 02:41, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Hope, avθomaθic add in user talk[edit]

I hope that procrammor add an avθomaθic add in a "user talk page", when someone is talking about him on other user talk page, it would be very useful. Using Frame like PHP site, with date post & title & inside communication, when a user name is mentioned the frame from other user page while be shown in the mentioned userpage... Because, else, how do we know if someone is talking about us ??? Gmazdên 05:49, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

[οὐρανός] ϝορσανός[edit]

Hi where do you getted this word & etymology ? Gmazdên 22:18, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, I wrote that over two years ago, so I'm not entirely sure, but if I had to hazard a guess, it would be from Beekes (btw, that website is crap and doesn't work half the time). -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 02:05, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

is, and Nemzag[edit]

Hi, I created Arab entry cause I needed those for link definition of my web page, I just wished to to add info since it's open to any one and I add entries (from Lingvosoft & Babylon Source) sometime that need to be corrected and completed but I don't do vandalism like some other (I don't know a better & precise electronic Arabic dictionary), since Stephën telled me to not add arabic anymore, because i'm level 2, I didn't added anymore, adding request in Arabic that are there since two years without complement by Arabic expert.
About some Albanian word like hypje (up : υψος (ypsos) / ὑπέρ (hupér) [ʰyps·os / ʰyp·er], p148 : "Albanian Etymological Dictionary"), is a gheggian language from Macedonia & Kosovo (adopted in media instead of Enver Hoxha dialect) and who is distinct from reformed Albanian based on Tosk (orthodox where Ypsilon (Old Ellêniqa) became Ipsilon (Modern Greek : 3 [i] ita, ipsilon, iota) and C/Qoppa [q] C/Gamma [g] (O.E) became Kappa [k] or Ghamma [ɣ] [(M.G), it's the reason why albanian use letter K for sound c/q [q] & k [k], where other Latin language use c like prefix COM- writed in Albania KOM- ; I noticed that Beobach checked and reverted some of my add (perun, hypi (mk / ks) / hipi (sq) : is there a tool to know all if his reverting on my contribution ?), it's not nice, since those word exist & are true. You use falsificated dictionary based on toskian & reformed shqip, you don't know the gheggian language & there is no gheggian admin to confirm my add... So please be tolerant, I'm conscious that I'm just a student who try to add some content for all world, perhaps i'm make mistake, but just be more comprehensive and positive upon me and improve not remove. I have been blocked one month by dictator like Ivan Štambuk (for telling that obedience is عبد‎ / عباد‎) or reverted by Vahag (mbret / zot) using book writed by Vladimir Orel (Israel, Tel Aviv), but I keep in mind that 10 years ago Serbian Orthodox / Slavic Communist take pleasure to exterminate my people & falsificate our language in 1947 after victory against the National Socialist... Thanks to be more open-minded toward other (respect article 19 of U.N.O Universal Human Rights), if this Wiktionary is just about political interest I will not add any more entries, since I just lose my time if someone else remove my add... (also I'm sure that etymology of Obediô from Oboediô is not Ob+Avdiô) Gmazdên 04:06, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
What means IMO, RFC & RFV ??? Gmazdên 04:35, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
I stopped adding Arabic because of all of the arguments from so many people who were just beginning to learn it. I decided that life is too short to put up with all of that abuse, and if the beginners want Arabic to be done differently, let them do it themselves. Since I stopped, nobody else did any, so Arabic is in limbo at the moment.
IMO = "in my opinion". RFC = "request for clean-up". RFV = "request for verification". —Stephen (Talk) 06:10, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
Beoback your profile don't show what language you speak & write, are you albanian ? Why do you verify language that you don't know, with use of dictionary made by an russian israeli based on falsificated toskian dialect, why do you removed mret redirection to mpret or mbret, are you trying to confirm a invented language by removing prove of origin ??? And I would like that you ask me before removing my add, perhaps I have some explication that you don't know... Gmazdên 17:11, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
I don't understand why you say the low quality of his work ? (his edits are mostly bad, rarely if ever useful). I use the structure of most wiktionary english word, with ==Language==, ===Etymology===, ===Pronunciation=== (I noticed that lot of wikiword don't have IPA or reference, or related), ===Noun===, ====Related terms====, ====Synonyms====; ====References==== (someone tell me that I need to add this for proving my add), has I said before I use Lingvosoft, Babylon 8 & "", my definition are correct, since I use electronic dictionary. You check in printed dictionary, well, but don't say low quality (since his lingvosoft & Babylon 8 the responsible) ??? And about theses entries I created what's the problem with them the definition are correct ??? Just one question how to add inflected form like m (singular, plural) & f(singular, plural) with a good syntax, don't forget I'm a beginner, about coerator why did you not keep this word in curator related term or in etymology ??? Gmazdên 08:14, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
Inflected forms can be entered like preguntó and hombres. Electronic dictionaries and computer translating programs are full of errors and do a poor job. Many of the words or translations entered in them were done by uneducated people, people who don’t speak the language well, speakers of various dialects, and so on. Please do not bring anything from an electronic source. I don’t understand your question about coerator. Coerator is Old Latin (Archaic Latin), not the classical language. Coerator did not come from curator, since curator is classical and therefore more recent. —Stephen (Talk) 10:57, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
I'm saying why do you not keep in etymology or related term of curator page, the word coerator. Does coera, procoerator & procoerator word exist ?. About, inflected form does your syntax function with Albanian words (any page link for syntax code) ? What book do you suggest then ? Do you know a good archaic latin & greek lexicon ? I would like that you add a function in wiktionary to list all word from a language (hope you added archaic Latin has a language), I searched this tool but I didn't find (for Old Ellêniqë). Gmazdên 20:49, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
It is not usual to link Classical Latin words to their Archaic predecessors. Coerator is not a different word, but just an older orthography. Classical Latin words are linked immediately to Proto-Indo-European if this is known, or to some non-Indo-European source if that is known. I don’t believe that procurator was used at all in Old Latin...that term only came about in the Classical language. Please forget about Old Latin. Old Latin is not important in modern etymologies and is only of passing interest to students specializing in the Latin language. Until you know Latin at a level of at least Babel-3, you should not concern yourself with Archaic Latin and you should not be entering those words, especially if you don’t know how to decline them and don’t know which vowels are long and which short.
Archaic Latic is not considered a separate language, it has the same language code as Classical Latin, i.e., la. As to Albanian inflected forms, yes, the syntax functions with that. If an Albanian noun form is in the plural, it works just like hombres, except you use sq instead of es. —Stephen (Talk) 00:28, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
Hi, the meaning of Old Latin Coerator & Orô is better than modern Curô by Urô (heal by fire ??? really strange I think)... Also, you didn't corrected unë etymology (modified by Oemnipedista who don't speak Shqip but believe russian israeli book not authenticated by Gheggian Ministry of Language ! I proved that the explication of Vladimir is false... Do you know a link to a list of archaic latin word with variation with classical ? Gmazdên 12:19, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
He would be nice that you add new language code for archaic latin and for gheggian albanian to differentiate the sq (toskian) dialect, perhaps using (code ks : kosova or else), please. A gheggian wiki would be wonderful, to keep memory of variation. Thanks for your kindness and patient (explication, any wiki link for syntax ?), Good day. Gmazdên 02:00, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
Can I re add laj to synonym of pastroj page ??? I checked para and in etymology he would be usefull to add παράς (parás). In qen, somehone remove my information, can you re add since it's more complete : "deviated to çan (still used in Xhakova, Kosova) then çen (still used in Gheggian dialect) and reformed (1947) in Albania by the communist power to qen." Gmazdên 10:21, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
I was never able to understand what you were saying, and you wanted to wait for a Gheg admin. I didn’t correct unë because of this...I don’t know how to correct it. You should drop the subject of Vladimir, nobody here knows anything about him. You are the only person who ever mentions his name. We have no idea who he is and we do not know his book.
There are print dictionaries that list archaic words, but I do not know of anything online. There is no ISO code for Old Latin (appropriate since Old Latin is not very important). The ISO language code for Gheg Albanian is aln, and Tosk is als, so Gheg words can be added under the language name Gheg using the language code aln. It is possible to make a Gheg Wikipedia and/or a Gheg Wiktionary, but it requires a lot of work. You would have to translate all of the wiki terms into Gheg, such as My talk, My preferences, My watchlist, My contributions, Log out, Page, Discussion, View source, History, Watch, Toolbox, What links here, Related changes, Upload file, Special pages, Printable version, Permanent link, and thousands of other terms. It is a huge job and you really need at least three Gheg speakers to work on it together for many hours.
Yes, it is a good idea to add laj as a synonym of pastroj. I can’t add an etymology for qen because I don’t know the etymolgy, and I cannot understand what you wrote about it. If we can’t understand your etymology, then of course someone will remove it, because it serves no purpose if it makes to sense to anyone. —Stephen (Talk) 12:31, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
Hi, Stephën, it's not me who mentioned his name but Ivan Stambuk in zot#Reference and Vahagn Petrosyan mbret#References, I searched who is this guy and I find it in Wikipedia. And the etymology used in unë is from his (300$) book p.486 , it's why I'm talking about him, still I proved is explication is false, cause he use +1400AD reference book, but Shemitic Ana/Ênê and Old Latin Unus are more older than Hypothetical Old Albanian (Formula e Pagëzimit (1462), Fjalori i Arnold Fon Harfit (1497), Perikopeja e Ungjillit të Pashkës ( fundi i sh.XV-fillimi sh.XVI)), first albanian language never existed since we speak shqip (scipio latin), the name of this nation exist since Society of Nation created it in, when Ottoman empire collapsed after 1918, before we were Rumelia, and before Byzantine & before Ellêno-Macedonian, the Turkish term of Turkey is false to, cause they are not Altaic/Asiatic people like Turkistan but white Caucasian/Persian...
I writed in Etymology of qen, that in Macedonia we use çên [ʧɛn], and in Xhakova a city of Kosovo they use çan [ʧan]. So the deviation of word from the root is Canus → çan [ʧan] → çên [ʧɛn] → qên (sq[ʨɛn]).
To create the wiki gheg, we should perhaps first make a excel word list with toskian, gheggian, dialectal & root. And after create a program that convert automatically the toskian word in gheggian using the excel database (xml or else), I searched for such list, or a extracting tool to get term list from a an electronic albanian dictionary like Lingvosoft or Office (star or microsoft), but I didn't find it. I'm not programmer but I can help for the word I know, I will talk to my cousin who are teacher in Macedonia to check the complete term list, if 50 person help me, we each can correct 1000 word. Perhaps we need first to create a SQL / XML page to list the word (tosk, dialect, gheg & root, add variant in and then make an automatic translation from albanian wiki to gheg. I can't do all alone, I'm not rich I have to work to win money. I add word because, I don't have job actually, so I have time, but complete a wiki need a team of people more knowledgeable than me, my mother can help me because she was teacher, but she don't know how to use computer and how to program in Wiki Code. I'm from Belgium, and I don't know all word, and I don't know all variant from all gheggian city, the best would be to get list of term of each city from messenger communication and compare automatically difference, and then propose a corrected version based upon source and etymology, but for that we need a programmer and I'm not one. Gmazdên 13:24, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
"Deviation of word from the root" doesn’t make sense in English. There isn’t anything written there that I can understand or use.
If you are talking about a Gheg Wikipedia, you have to start in the incubator (Main Page). You’ll need to translate all of the wiki terms, messages, warning, guidelines, etc., before you will be able to leave the incubator. After that, you can start writing or translating articles in Gheg. If you want to make a Gheg Wiktionary, you have to apply here. I’m afraid I don’t know anything about SQL, XML or other program applications. —Stephen (Talk) 13:56, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
I'm sorry, I don't speak English everyday, and for me it's a bit difficult to communicate in this manner, perhaps we can continue in French ? Atalaes removed laj in pastroj synonym, so I prefer ask Admin before re add to not have problem... Gmazdên 14:02, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
Conversational French would be no problem, but this would require the use of technical French terms, French etymology language, and that would probably be too confusing. I think we have to forget about etymologies for the moment, communication is too difficult. —Stephen (Talk) 14:18, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
To link to a specific language, use [[wikt:cool#Dutch|cool]]. —Stephen (Talk) 20:22, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
Thanks Goodness. Still I really want to do something about UNÊ, the definition of Vladimir Orel cause me problem, I disagree with Omnipaedistia add (definition is false and his explication to), and I don't understand why he remove the Arabic (Semitic) link & why not to add Uno (Unus, Unique, 1 I), if he add some info that he believe to be correct, why does not keep info of others ? I can add ANA/ÊNÊ by my self but if someone reverse it would be unpleasant... Is there a Great Judge in Wiktionary for such case ? Gmazdên 22:42, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
No, but the etymology must be logical and correctly formatted and entered in understandable English. That’s the problem, we have no way of understanding what the etymology should be, so we can’t write a logical, understandable etymology. —Stephen (Talk) 23:16, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
Ok, but why do you keep the Vladimir Orel Etymology ? It's not an Shqip (Scipio Latin), and I checked his book and they are lot of error. Gmazdên 09:49, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
I don’t know anything about Vladimir Orel, but I am not competent to judge or edit the etymology. —Stephen (Talk) 10:09, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
I propose this Etymology : From Latin unus (un·us, one), uno (un·ɔ, single), cognate with Arabic أنا(’ana, I), Hebrew אני(ani, I) & Latin unicus (uniq·us, only, singular, one and no more). Gmazdên 10:37, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
Those look like cognates, not etymons. It might be cognate with either the Latin word or the Arabic word (but not both, since there is no evidence that the Latin and Arabic are related at all). It looks like a lot of guessing and very little solid evidence. —Stephen (Talk) 10:45, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
Still you keep Vladimir Ethymology and there is no prove that is correct since he link the word to Greek yes & screen (I said before he don't use Arabic, Persian, Turkish, Hindu book in his reference)... Shqip (Scipio Latin) has a lot of word with Latin root, and I believe that Semitic I (ANA/ANI) have same structure than UNÊ (Vowel+N+Extension), but has you know A is singular vowel in Arabic & U plural. I would like to add my etymology, I will not remove the Vlad one, but I would like to be sure that my add would no be reverte, I explained to you with word crimen & جرم‎ that arab & latin are related... If you don't like etymology word : "cognate with" with what should I replace then ? Gmazdên 10:53, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
I didn’t write it, so I don’t keep it. It was written by someone else and kept by someone else. If it is wrong, then it is a blemish on the reputation of the one who wrote it. I am not competent to edit it one way or the other. Please stop mentioning Vladimir, it makes you sound neurotic. I do not know who Vladimir is and I have never seen his book.
You have to forget about this etymology until you learn English better and until you find concrete evidence. Until then, if it is wrong, then it is on the one who wrote it.
There are a small number of words that Latin borrowed from Arabic, and a few that Arabic borrowed from Latin. Other than those few borrowings, Latin and Arabic are not related whatsoever. I know all about the Nostratic theory, but no one has ever found one bit of evidence in support of it. Any such genetic relationship was more than 40,000 years ago, and languages have changed so much since then that it is impossible to prove a genetic connection.
As I said, I am not competent to edit this etymology. I will not edit this etymology. Please drop the subject and move on to something new. —Stephen (Talk) 11:16, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
With who should I talk or ask then ? Can we bring Omnipaedistia here ? This case concern me (unê, ênê, onë) and my people and I don't like that a foreigner that even don't speak Shqip remove link to Arabic or Latin root... I think I proved what I said. So if you can't help me, tell me who can then. Omnipaedista is Admin ? I have understanded that the Tosk are Orthodox and it seems that they to don't want to keep Muslim or Latin word or root in their falsificated language Etymology, but if so, can I add Tosk in definition and created an Gheggian etymology like anmik & armik, I tried to use syntax {{l|aln & {{l|als but this bug... Gmazdên 11:34, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
You can try to discuss with him on his talk page. There is no other choice that I know about. —Stephen (Talk) 11:58, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for your advice, but what about the syntax {{l|aln|word} & {{l|als|word} how to use in page definition ? Is Omnipaedistia admin ? About the book of Vladimir Orel Albanian Etymology Dictionary p.253, I noticed an other error, he link "protects" : mbron (tosk) / prun (gheg) to imparo, but it's impero (Imperator, Perun God of Thunder, Lightnings Zeus), he seems to use contrary etymology for Latin term using... Stephën, I understand that you are not Shqip, but if someone falsificated your Mother tongue (English language), I'm sure that you would be trying to correct, like I do, did you know that the insurgency in Kosovo started when they (socialo-communist) imposed Tosk Dialect at University by Law (1990).
About Albanian etymology, when I check English word etymology (like peace the wiki team allow definition with "related to", "akin to", "cognate with", so why do you (Admins) not allow for UNÊ (Unus or Anus ? أنا(’ana, I), אני(ani, I))... It's what I don't understand, it's unjust & unequal. Gmazdên 13:35, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
I finded an other term that cognate from Semitic & Latin like crimen, oculis & עגול‎ / جولة‎ [ogul·ɪs], don't forget that in Egypt, letter djim ج(j) is [g]... Ana/Ênê could became Unê with time & Merging with Unus ??? Gmazdên 21:04, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
I don’t see anything wrong with {{l|aln|word}} or {{l|als|word}}. The only problem is that there is no Gheg or Tosk language section on the word page. If there were, then they would work. There are many, many errors here with words in the languages that I speak, including English. It does not bother me in the least. Your fixation appears to be a pathological obsession and you should try to control yourself and let this drop. Your life will be much happier if you learn to let go of such petty things. Ana did not become unus. This is well understood in linguistics, and the subject to too complex to discuss in a small paragraph here. You need to take a linguistics course at university for two to four years, then you will understand.
This is my FINAL word on this matter. I will not reply to any other question about the etymology of unë. I am finished with it, the matter is dead. It is an ex-matter. —Stephen (Talk) 23:22, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
Ok, thanks for response (still you didn't tell me if Omnipaedista is admin), I will search an Gheggian Admin for the une case. Thanks for your help. Last question before I drop the subject, what word should I use then to link Ana/Ênê to definition : From Latin unus (un·us, one), uno (un·ɔ, single) unicus (uniq·us, only, singular, one and no more), look like Arabic أنا(’ana, I), Hebrew אני(ani, I). Correct my phrase because I want to keep the link. Gmazdên 10:16, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
No, he is not an admin. There is no Gheg admin here, but there might be one on the Albanian Wiktionary or Wikipedia. I don’t understand your question, but there is no connection between unus and أنا‎. —Stephen (Talk) 12:02, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks so much for your help, good & nice Day. Gmazdên 14:02, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

IPA gheggian k [q or k] anmik[edit]

Hi, I speak Albanian, and I'm sure that the gheggian K is pronounced [q], they are some word where we use [k], but for anmik is [q]... In Gheggian (K have two pronunciation [q & k]) Thanks

Read This I explain why C/Q Ellênika became K in Byzantinë...

The Q in Albania became [ʨ], because qoppa [q] ancient value 100 became Tshima value 100 Ϭ/ϭ in Coptic numerology, writed in Cyrillic Ҁ/ҁК/кЌ/ќ...

The value 90 is not Qoppa but San I also believe that the value 90 in modern Greek shaped Ϟ/ϟ is a variant of San Ϻ ϻ [ʂ / ʦ] and not of the qoppa Ϙ/ϙ [q], in Greek a variant form of qoppa exist and look like the Cyril one... Gmazdên 12:51, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Ewoluþion of alphabet
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 200 300 400 500 600 700 800 900 1000
Ellênic Α Β Γ Δ Ε Ϝ Ζ Η Θ Ι Κ Λ Μ Ν Ξ Ο Π Ϻ Ϙ Ρ Σ Τ Υ/Ͷ Φ Χ Ψ Ϡ Ω
Etruscan 𐌀 𐌁 𐌂 𐌃 𐌄 𐌅 𐌆 𐌇 𐌈 𐌉 𐌊 𐌋 𐌌 𐌍 𐌎 𐌏 𐌐 𐌑 𐌒 𐌓 𐌔 𐌕 𐌖 𐌘 𐌗 𐌙 𐌜 𐌚
Old Latin A B C D E F Z H I K L M N O P Q R S T V X
Persian ا ب(b) ج(j) / گ د(d) ه(h) ڤ ز(z) / ژ ح() ط() ي(y) ك(k) ل(l) م(m) ن(n) س(s) ع(ʿ) پ ص() / چ ق(q) ر(r) ش(š) ت(t) / ث() و(w) ف(f) خ() ذ() ظ() غ()
Byzantine α β γ δ ε ϛ ζ η θ ι κ λ μ ν ξ ο π ϟ ρ σς τ υ φ χ ψ ω
Cyrillic Ъ А Б Г/Ѓ/Ҕ Д Е В З/Ж И Ѳ І К Л М Н Ѯ О П Ч/Џ Ҁ/Ћ Р С/Ш Т У/Ы Ф Х 𐌙 Ц/Ѕ Ѡ
Phônetic [ə] [a] [b↔v] [g↔ɣ] [d↔ð] [e↔ɛ] [v↔f] [z↔ʒ] [ɛ↔i] [t↔θ] [ɪ↔y] [k↔x] [l] [m] [n] [ks↔gz] [o] [p] [sˤ↔ʂ] [ʧ↔ʤ] [q↔c, ʨ] [r] [s↔ʃ] [θ↔t] [u↔w]/[y] [f↔ɸ] [qʰ↔χ→kʰ] [ps] [zˤ↔ʐ] [ʦ↔ʣ] [ɔ]
Thanks for correcting me, I hate making mistakes. In Gheg is the letter q still [tɕ]? (Actually, I write q and gj as [cɕ] and [ɟʑ], because there's definitely a noticeable difference between those sounds and the [tɕ] and [dʑ] in other languages, but that's not really important at the moment) — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 14:24, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for you add, to tell you truth I don't know the sound [c], but I believe that [c & ʨ] are same sound Ћћ / Ćć in Serbian and Ќ/ќ in Macedonian. The GJ is [ɟ] Ѓѓ Macedonian, [ʑ] is a sound that I don't know, but Serbian use in Ђђ / Đđ [dʑ]. Gmazdên 14:45, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Two more questions: First one is, are you sure it's [q] (pronounced further back in the mouth), or [c] (palatal, pronounced close to the front)? I notice you mentioned a comparison to Ќ, which is palatal in Macedonian (I think [c]).
Second question, in Gheg are the forms anmiq, anmiku and anmiqtë correct? — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 14:33, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I speak arab and I know difference between Kaf/Kappa & Qaf/Qoppa, and in Skopje, we use [q] sound, some word use [k], but for this one i'm sur is [q] & not [k], because in old latin C is [g / q], like Caius → Gaius & Pecunia → Pequnia Reference. I mention Ќ, cause i explain that Qoppa became Tshima and in modern macedonian there is no Qoppa Ҁҁ but only Кк that variate has Ќќ.

I never eard these form, but perhaps other city use it, in Skopje we use anmik, they are 47 dialect in all Shqipëri. Gmazdên 14:50, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

How much do you know about Tosk? That's the only form of Albanian I'm really comfortable using, I know very very little about Gheg — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 14:55, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

I have to confront toskan dialect using electronic dictionary (for my albanian translation), and I noticed that those word were really different from gheg & root origin, I readed history of this language I learned that he was imposed in 1947 by Enver Hoxha. I don't like this dialect, because I speak Gheg, French, English and I'm studying Latin so I constated, that the toskian is realy falsified language based upon a code that I deciphered. Gmazdên 15:00, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

It might not be as conservative, but I still like Tosk :p — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 15:05, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

It's albanian, but realy deviated one. To tell the truth French, Portuguese, English, Italian, Spanish, Rumanian, Albanian are all Latin deviation. But the Tosk, is realy deformed variant of Gheg & Latin. I noticed that S became SH, TH became T, PR became MBR. In french -θɪɔn became -sɪɔn and in English -ʃɪɔn , based on letter Þþ [ʃo] who is [ʃ] in greek and [θ] in latin. Other exemple, the Latin G [ʒ] became [ʤ] in English. It's a code and it come from hebrew / arabian alphabet where letter have two valor. Gmazdên 15:13, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

I think Tosk might just be like English. It's not a Romance language, but it has a lot of words derived from Latin. — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 15:14, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Tosk are more Greek (Orthodox) than Latin (Roman Catholic), but still they are Shqiptar and first earthling so we are brother. To tell the truth (truni) Shqip has a lot of word from Greek, Latin, Persian, Arab, Slavic, Hindu and others, therefore, it's interesting language made of a lot of source, this make his richness. But you should admit, that based upon root, some word are falsificated by a code, that only the temple and priest knows and that I deciphered and I want to teach to anyone. To know this code check Armenian alphabet east & western variant, look Georgian to. Gmazdên 15:33, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

The first earthling... Amazing... Hi Opi! :) --Dijan 17:33, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
Hey Dijan, haven't talked to you in a while :) Hope all's well — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 17:38, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

If you speak shqip, why did you not add babel level in your user page ? Do you readed my Mbret/Mret & Unë discussion in my user page ? What should I do, to keep information that I added without being removed by the reader of book of Vladimir Orel ? And about anmik why do not use the ISO code that gived today Stephen to me : "Gheg Albanian is aln, and Tosk is als" ? Gmazdên 19:51, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

It's not on my page because I'm sq-1 and I only keep things on my page that I speak at at least level 2 unless I'm focusing on them currently. You can look at User:Opiaterein/Babel for more things I speak in small amounts.
I don't use als and aln because I don't use the headers ==Gheg Albanian== and ==Tosk Albanian==, I only use the code sq for Albanian. Gheg and Tosk both go under there. If there are differences, I use the templates {{Gheg}} and {{Tosk}} on the definition line. You can see that in use at anmik and armik. — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 21:48, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Ok but Tosk is Standard of Albania, and Gheg have been adopted has standard language in Media of Kosovo, also this variant is used in Macedonia and north Albania & South Montenegro, so perhaps we should make a difference between those (Localisation) ? You didn't have advice about my problem with remover of my add ? Are you an admin ? Gmazdên 22:15, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

I noticed you add conjugation of Pastroj, I want to add mbroj/mbron (tosk) & pruj/prun (gheg) : protects, but the conjugation of Prun is not the same has pastroj, What syntax should I use ? The Prun use U instead of O like :

unë ti ai/ajo ne ju ata/ato
present pruj prun prun prujmi pruni prujnë
imperfect pruja pruje prunte??? prunim ??? prunit ??? prunin ???
simple past pruva pruvê prujti ??? pru??? pru??? pru???
future do të pruj do të prujsh do të prujë do të prujmë do të prujni do të prujnë

And so on... Gmazdên 11:25, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't know if Gheg verbs are conjugated exactly the same way as Tosk verbs but pastroj is an -oj verb so it needs a different conjugation template than one that ends in -uj. Category:Albanian conjugation-table templates contains all the Albanian conjugation templates that we currently have. — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 15:07, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
Hm, could you look at âsht to check that example sentence, and fix it if it's incorrect? — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 15:13, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi, checked you added Asht, in Macedonia we write it ësht like in Shqipëri but we pronounces [ɑ̃ʃt] & not [ãʃt] (you need to add etymology from latin EST → EŠT → ËSHT → ÃSHT). Also friend is not ANMIKI (inimicus : who means enemy) but MIKI (amicus), or SHOÇI/SHOQI, we use JÊM (Gheg) and not IM (tosk), also we use ÇIKY [ʧiky] and not KY [ky] ([Exemple], KY exist in Gheg to, but for this sentence, ÇIKY/QIKY is more correct... The conjugation of PRUN look like "Template:sq-conj-uaj" but should be corrected to "Template:sq-conj-uj". Gmazdên) 17:28, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

About Prun / Mbron Etymology from Vladimor Orel Albanian Etymology Dictionary p.253, I noticed an other error, he link "protects" : mbron (tosk) / prun (gheg) to latin imparô, but it's parô imperô (Imperator, Perun God of Thunder, Perênija (Gheg) / Perëndia (Tosk), Lightnings Zevs Ʒɛvosθ), he seems to use contrary etymology for Latin term using... Gmazdên 17:36, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps you could add anmiq, anmiku, anëmik and anmiqtë in Anmik word variant... Gmazdên 10:28, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

It seems that we must add a conjugation variant for the verb LAJ. Gmazdên 10:34, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

I noticed you removed the phrase : keep it like "Qiky/Çiky ãsht miki jêm". Also for ËSHT/ÂSHT [ɑ̃ʃt] dont usë  [ɑ̃] for nasalition but à [ɑ̃]. The Variant Âsht was writed in Gueg Page, and used  has a phonetic value for sound [ɑ̃], but in Macedonia and Kosovo we write it Ësht but pronounce it [ɑ̃]. Gmazdên 10:52, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

I checked word kënaq, you write the gheg variant (knaç/knaq) like Tosk, but know this lot of Tosk word using Ë, are writed without Ë in Gheg. Also, in Gheg we don't pronounce the Ë in end of Word. Like shkatërroj / shkatrrôj, këta / Kta, nganjëherë / kanihêrë, shtrembëroj / shtremôj and others... Gmazdên 22:58, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

I believe the PR became MBR in albanian because in Arabic Alphabet there is no P and it's replaced by B, the MR means rebellion & bitter (acidity). This falsification is a pun from the hebrew/arabian. Gmazdên 11:24, 18 February 2011 (UTC)


Please don't edit my user talk archives. Talking in something resembling English would also help. Thank you. Mglovesfun (talk) 13:02, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Ok, it's just to complete what we talked before... Hope you readed. Gmazdên 13:12, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
I had to add a link to qoppa Ϙ for opiaterein discussion, and I noticed that you reversed IPA to [k]. I had again to correct to [q], since is the old Latin & archaic Ellênic pronunciation. Gmazdên 13:20, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Multiple edits[edit]

Hi. Would you be able to use the preview button to test your edits before you save them, instead of making many edits to the same text in a short space of time? It would be easier for the people patrolling Recent Changes to mark edits as legitimate or vandalism. Thanks. Equinox 17:37, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

OK, are you speaking in User Talk Page or Else ? When I write to people, sometime I add information after I searched to get, and I move from one place to other, so it's why I add multiple edit... Sorry, it's the way I'm doing add. To tell you the truth, I discovered the button preview just three day ago. And sometime I forgot to use. Sorry, Guy. On what page precisely ? Gmazdên 17:42, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps, I suggest, you could add a function in Wiki, to merge multiple edit in short time from same user automatically. To facilitate add control. Gmazdên 18:02, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

OCULIS & עגול[edit]

I think Old Latin oculis (ogul·is, eye) was pronounced [ogulis], I finded a term that cognate עגולجولة‎. Gmazdên 21:00, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Derë sandali[edit]

Hi, you checked page ? I don't understand why you remove ipa & persian etymology ??? Gmazdên 12:49, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Mglovefun your reversed sandali without checking ? Gmazdên 12:53, 4 February 2011 (UTC)


From {etyl|ota|sq} {term|صندلی|tr=sandali|sc=ota-Arab|lang=ota}, from {etyl|fa|sq} {term|صندلی|tr=sandali|lang=fa}.

Why exactly did you create an Albanian section then immediately nominate it for verification. Are you fairly confident that this exists, or do you think it doesn't exist? Mglovesfun (talk) 12:54, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
Re derë, why add {{rfv}}? Do you believe that this word does not exist? Do you often add etymologies and pronunciation to words that don't exist? Mglovesfun (talk) 12:56, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, those word exist in Skopje, and has you can see in this page Etymology, some albanian came from other language. I added request to be more precise. Gmazdên 12:59, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

That's not {{rfv}} then, use {{attention|sq|your comment here}}, which derë already has. Mglovesfun (talk) 13:01, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Ok, but can you keep those word please ??? I add RFV cause I believed his a call for Admin structure page Verification, and not a Word Verification, I'm mistaken. Has you can see lot of Albanian Word are from Foreign Languages Etymology. Gmazdên 13:04, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

I would like that etymology of Zot using Life from Ancient Greek ζῶ... Can you add in this form "{etyl|grc|sq} {term|ζῶ|tr=zô|lang=grc}" like that, zot would appears on this page : ???

Thanks, and what about sandali ? Gmazdên 13:45, 4 February 2011 (UTC)


Hi, I checked AMË page, and I noticed that Ivan Stambuk added unpleasant odour, but in my dictionary the meaning is matrix for tosk, also in Gheg it's means "but" from persian AMA & Ottoman turkish, how to add ? Can you help ?


From Ottoman Turkish اما(ama), from Persian اما(ama).




  1. but
  2. however

Thanks Gmazdên 12:44, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

I also add pronounciation & etymology with RFC add, for Derë & Sandali, but Mglovefun reversed ? Can you help ? Gmazdên 12:52, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi, JorisvS replaced IPA definition of derë [deɾə] by [dɛrə] who mean pig (derr), what should I do ? Can you respond please ? I'm sure it's in gheg it's [deɾ] & not [dɛr], has a explained about we don't pronounce the Ë at end. Gmazdên 22:09, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

I think it would be wise to start putting Gheg under its own L2 header, so that there will be ==Albanian== and ==Gheg Albanian==. As far as I'm aware, there's only [ɛ] in Standard Albanian and Tosk, and it would be a hassle to try to treat all three dialects under one header. I just don't think it would work, so if you'd like to start making ==Gheg Albanian== entries, I can make more templates for you. — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 23:42, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for response, I don't know if Tosk use [e] or only [ɛ], but I'm sure that Gheg use it. Also JorisvS use [r] in his IPA derë but if you check this Page, you will observe that R is [ɾ] & RR is [r], so I think he make a mistake, so if he mistake for R, he make mistake for E. How to correct please ? I'm sure that is [deɾə] & not [dɛrə]. It's more correct than saying pig for door ??? Still [e] epsilon exist in Greek Language & Alphabet, so its really astonished me if this sound doesn't exist in Toskian (for Greek term), I know that [ɛː] became [i] after Byzantine, but I'm sure that [e] exist in Skopje dialect. Also Hypjê (gheg) became Hipje (Tosk) because Ypsilon [y] became [i], in Skopje we still use ancient pronunciation. Gmazdên 01:04, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I would like to add etymology to Zot, add next to Life, Ancient Greek ζῶ in this form "{etyl|grc|sq} {term|ζῶ|tr=zô|lang=grc}" like that, zot would appears on this page : ??? And what about sandali ? Gmazdên 01:25, 5 February 2011 (UTC)


The reason you have Category:sq:Etymology at the bottom of your page is because you have [[Category:sq:Etymology]] in #Continuation. —Stephen (Talk) 01:37, 5 February 2011 (UTC)


Hi, Someone JorisvS replaced IPA, has you can see he added [dɛrə] who his pronunciation of derrë (pig), if you check this Page, you will observe that R is [ɾ] & RR is [r], so I think he make a mistake, how to correct please ? I'm sure that is [deɾə] & not [dɛrə] Gmazdên 22:01, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Can you also check Sandali, please ? I would like to add second definition to amë (Ivan Stambuk added unpleasant odour, but in my dictionary the meaning is matrix for tosk, also in Gheg it's means "but" from persian AMA & Ottoman turkish, how to add ? Can you help ?), but I don't know how to separate the two definition...

The definition look like :


From Ottoman Turkish اما(ama), from Persian اما(ama).




  1. but
  2. however

Thanks Gmazdên 22:05, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

I noticed, that you corrected the R [ɾ] but not the E [e], has I said Tosk are neighboor of Greek, epsilon [e] exist in Greek Language & Alphabet, so its really astonished me if this sound doesn't exist in Toskian (like for Greek term), in Albania E & K have two valour [e/ɛ] & [k/q]... So please correct, has I tell you before, I'm sure of pronunciation it's [e] and not [ɛ]... Look this to : Albanian_alphabet. Thanks, can you unreverse my sandali add. Or are you verifying the word ? Gmazdên 10:36, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

If it's Tosk pronunciation add info next IPA [deɾ·ə] (Tosk) & [deɾ] (Gheg), in Gheg we don't pronounce the ending Ë [ə] Gmazdên 13:19, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi, correct JorisvS insult please, why he changed derë IPA ? Does he speak Shqip ? Language Babel isn't shown in his user page, don't insult my people please, I know it's [deɾ·ə] and not [dɛr]... Gmazdên 00:42, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

On the Albanian language pages such as Albanian language, it indicates [dɛɾə]. Gheg has many more vowels than Tosk: Gheg Albanian. Nobody is insulting anybody. I am sure that he has found that pronunciation somewhere on Wikipedia. This is what I have been trying to explain to you for years. You are not responsible for the Albanian language or for any other language. You are only responsible for what you write. You do not have to be overly concerned about the mistakes that others make in a language that you know, but you must be absolutely vigilant about what you yourself write. The mistakes that others have made here have not harmed you in any way, but the mistakes that you yourself made have damaged your credibility, and that is why nobody wants to listen to you. You need to ease off the mistakes that others make, and you must make certain that you do not make mistakes in a language that you claim to know. You will lose the respect of other linguists very, very quickly, but it takes a long time indeed to regain their trust.
One thing that we have all learned is that being a native speaker of a language does not necessarily mean that one speaks the standard dialect using the standard pronunciation in an educated fashion. Our biggest headaches come from so-called native speakers who are uneducated in their language, or who left their land as a child and only remember how to talk like a child, or who have no experience in grammar and phonology. The fact that you are a native speaker of Albanian does not count as sufficient credentials. You have to be able to describe it without errors. Sometimes this means that you have to fix errors in the Wikipedia pages. It means that you have to be very careful about adding anything in other languages, such as Arabic. You made so many mistakes in Arabic in the beginning that now nobody wants to listen to you. It will take a long time to fix that, if it is even possible. —Stephen (Talk) 08:34, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

You right, I speak old Gheg, and those are Tosk (Orthodox) falsified Dialect. Don't matter let them insult them self. I forgot about them, it's not my problem anymore, I decided that I have to go to Mekkah to perform pilgrim and to learn the Qoran... Thanks for you help anyway. Gmazdên 22:02, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

zonjë (Tosk) & zôjë (Gheg)[edit]

Hi, in Macedonia & Kosovo we use Zôjë [zɔɪ], etymology : From "{etyl|grc|sq} {term|ζῶ|tr=zô|lang=grc}" [zɔ], can you add like for anmik & armik ? Also you didn't added anmiq, anmiku, anëmik and anmiqtë has ===Alternative forms===. Can you help please ? Gmazdên 14:08, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

anmiq, anmiku, anëmik and anmiqtë aren't "alternative forms", they're "forms of". Look at armik and see how they are listed. Also, remember how yesterday I said it might be wise to start using ==Gheg Albanian== headers? — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 15:07, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes those language are really different, so it would be preferable to use two header... In expectancy of an unified corrected version based upon source & root... Gmazdên 16:21, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I changed anmik so it uses Gheg. — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 16:34, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Why do you not add "From "{etyl|grc|sq} {term|ζῶ|tr=zô|lang=grc}" [zɔ]" in etymology ? I checked book of Vladimir, and he relate zot [zɔt] & zojë [zɔɪ] to greek life... Has you checked in my previous link for albanian greek term, lot of word are from Greek source... Can you also add a link (#REDIRECT) for zôjë [zɔɪ] for those who write it zojë [zɔɪ] ? Gmazdên 00:45, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

And what about derë, I'm sure we pronounce it [der] in Skopje and I believe that they don't use the pig pronunciation for door. Do you have an albanian friend friend from Macedonia to ask to ? Gmazdên 00:50, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

We also use zonja (tosk) & zôja/zoja (Gheg) :


  1. mrs.


  1. patroness

This word exist in Czech, the etymology link to Zoê / Ζωή#Greek [zɔɛ → zoi], Greek term for life... I would like to add to. Gmazdên 00:53, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Richard, I believe that your etymology for Zôjë / Zonjë is wrongful, I checked the page GWEN : women & ʒena, and yes ʒêvo is life in slavic, but for Zôjë is related to more older greek Ancient Greek ζῶ (), Zôt & Zôjë are linked to Zô (life & Zevs Ʒêvosθ)... Gmazdên 18:57, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

It wasn't my etymology. You need to talk to Ivan Štambuk, who know a lot more about Proto-Indo-European than I do.
You need to avoid using your own research as material here. — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 20:04, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Ivan use for Shqip Slavic source (like those proposed by the book of Vladimir Orel, Russian Israeli from Tel Aviv University), I believe that Shqip have more ancient Greek, old Latin & Arabic/Persian/Ottoman root... Still has you know the Albanian language was reformed by Communist (Marx) who are Anti-Imperialist (Anti-Roman), because Roman Army destructed their temple in Jerusalem. It's the reason why they invented lot of erroneous etymology, that they try to confirm with help of book based on a falsified dialect that Enver Hoxha imposed in 1947, telling that albanian/shqiptar are from Illyrian or Pelagian origin, Instead of Roman Clan Scipio. Those theory are interesting, but has I know Illyrian were exterminated by Roman Empire and Pelagian under their (byzantine) control, may be some Shqip individuals have Illyrian, Pelagian or Slavic Origin or maybe caucasian, persian and even Hindu, but still for me the Old Roman & Old Greek source are more realistic. I don't know Ivan, but his name don't seem to be Shqip/Albanian, so I prefer ask someone of my nation for Sqiptar/Albanian stuff (Sqiptar clan are known in Molise since +400). Has you know the ancient Greek (-300) alphabet and modern Greek (+800) are really different phonologically, since Byzantine removed letter and changing value to confuse & divide people, since Cyrillic alphabet is based on modern Greek, the code is wrong and the phonetic value to, like Epsilon [e] becoming Êpsilon [ɛ], Hêta [ɛ] becoming HITA [i], or Ypsilon [y] becoming Ipsilon [i], modern slavic alphabet does not differentiate the [ɔ] with [o], the E [e] & Ê [ɛ], the T [t] & the TH [θ] and the k [k] with [q], they are misleaded, and so they induce others into error, because the alphabet is based upon falsification of origin, I gived you the original code above... Gmazdên 00:13, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

What you're talking about is doing your own original research, which isn't allowed here. I'd rather have no etymology than etymology based on original research. — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 00:16, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm talking, that's all, we have right to express, I'm asking your opinion has you seem to be interested in Albanian, the Shqip language concern me, because I'm Shqiptar and I want to protect it. I explain to you, that Slavic Etymology, for Shqip Old Latin & Ancient Greek related word are incorrect. Since Slavic book are more recent than ancient Greek source or even more ancient Semitic (Arab/Hebrew) & Sanskrit (perso-hindo) stuff. I search by my own, and I know that I'm sincere. Gmazdên 00:37, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

It's fine to be curious and do your own research, you just have to know what's ok to put here and what's not. — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 00:42, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Do you know that Zonjë in hebrew means prostitute זונה‎ / زنى‎ and fornication in Persian زناء‎ since original spelling is zôjë from ancient Greek Zô life God Zevs, what etymology should I believe, one insulting my people, based on Russian Israeli falsificated language book, or original Ancient Greek source ? Check JorisvS insulting my people telling that derë [deɾ] (Door) is pronounced like Dêrr [dɛr] (pig) ? Has you know modern albanian (after 1945 war) use lot UND instead of UN in lot of word, who means dog in German, or nderoj (der : pig ?) instead of neroj (honor). Please understand, those Tosk (Orthodox) have really bad language, and I would like that you believe me, when I say it's falsified by Communist. Gmazdên 00:55, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

That sounds like a coincidence to me. You know "voda" is water in Russian, but vagina in Bengali. Is that insulting to Russians? How is zona in Hebrew more offensive to your people than to the Greeks? Some languages are offensive to themselves. In old Persian, aurat meant both "woman" and "imperfection". These days, it's considered a sexist word, but it's still used in Urdu. So I don't care if something was falsified by communists, I don't hate communists. Except for totalitarian dictators, but that's beside the point. JorisvS wasn't actively trying to insult your people, he just doesn't know Albanian. I'm getting quite bored of this conversation. — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 01:02, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Ok, then, I will stop, just hope that you add Zoja & Zonja ; and about Voda, Bengali don't impose Russian Etymology Book to Russia, like they do with Albania... Good bye. Gmazdên 02:12, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

And about your correction of Derë, in Skopje know that we use : "derë f (indefinite plural Dyrë, definite singular dera, definite plural Dyrtë). Gmazdên 02:28, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

That's why I've been using ==Gheg Albanian==. — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 02:31, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Please use ==Albanian (Gheg)==, like that definition follow ==Albanian== without others language between them. Gmazdên 02:49, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

I can see your reasoning, but I still don't like that. We don't do it for any other related languages/dialects. — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 02:51, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Be nice and make an exception for this case, please. It would be more convenient to have the 2 definition following each other. Gmazdên 20:00, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Do you plan to add zôja & zonja ??? Consider adding {{etyl|grc|sq}} {{term|ζῶ|tr=zô|lang=grc}} ; And about Voda, I have a funny word that I invented AQWAGGINA ha ha ha... Gmazdên 21:16, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

If you're talking about the entries zôja and zonja, no. I don't feel like taking the time to manually add noun-forms today, or tomorrow, or this month. I might do it by bot at some point, but I'm not going to be doing that manually. Also, I'm not going to add your primary research etymologies. — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 21:44, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Ok then good bye... Gmazdên 19:40, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Albanian Header[edit]

Hello, I thought it might be preferable to use the header in this form like that the definitions will follow.

  • Albanian "Not shown : Official/Standard of Albania (since 1947"
  • Albanian (Gheg)
  • Albanian (Tosk)

What do you think ? Gmazdên 11:04, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Also, has I said before I don't know if differencing the two dialect is a good idea, because, has you know the Gheg use the correct one, since the Tosk use falsificated word, if you compare with root & term source... I hope that the government of Albania will correct those falsification. Gmazdên 11:14, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

I will not play games of favoritism, just so you know. I decided to only separate out Gheg because standard Albanian is based on and mostly the same as Tosk. — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 14:05, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

What you call standard is standard of South Albania, the Kosovo have adopted Gheg officially in media, and in daily discussion the Gheg dialect is used in Northern Albania, south Montenegro & West Macedonia... Also, I believe the new government of Albania will probably stop the Tosk utilisation, I proved with example that his a falsification of term.

But I still ask you to use : "Albanian (Gheg) rather than Gheg Albanian like that definition will follow the Albanian "Standard" and precede the Albanian (Tosk), rather than have big space between definition. Gmazdên 15:00, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you're talking about. — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 19:45, 6 February 2011 (UTC)


Hi, first I would like to ask if you can add language in your user page, I noticed that you replaced IPA, I'm from Makedonia, and I'm sure we use [deɾ·ə], you replaced by [dɛr·ə] who mean pig derr, are you insulting my people ? Gmazdên 12:21, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, I'm not talking about anyone's dialect, but about the Standard. I know there are significant differences between the various Albanian varieties, does your native variety happen to be Gheg? I changed the phonetic brackets to phonemic slashes: from [der] to /dɛɾə/ (I didn't note then it also said [r], an alveolar trill, which is, I know, written <rr>, which someone else corrected). <e> is phonemically indicated /ɛ/ in Standard (Tosk) Albanian, but there is no contrast with [e], so (phonetic) [ɛ] and [e] are both (phonemic) /ɛ/.

I don't care about the Tosk dialect. Since a very small part of albanian speaker use this falsificated dialect, that Kosovo, Macedonian and Northern Shqip rejected & don't like. Pig [dɛr] & Door [deɾ], have nothing common. Are you albanian ? Gmazdên 13:56, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Maybe, but since 'Albanian' will be interpreted as referring to the Standard (thus Tosk), mixing Gheg messes things up IMO (given the differences). Given the big differences between the varieties of Albanian, I will not object to a separate Gheg Albanian entry (like at zôjë), even when alongside a (Standard) Albanian entry (quite opposite to Serbo-Croatian, see my contributions). However, I don't know about other editors, they might oppose/undo such an addition, so this might require a fair amount of discussion. --JorisvS 14:09, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Do you speak Shqip ? Are you Albanian or Greek ? Still you writed [dɛrə] pig (derr, I'm not sure you good enough in albanian phônology to correct my mother tongue. She is teacher and I'm sure of Gheg pronunciation, so your Greek Toskian dialect, it's not interesting me at all since is a falsificated dialect invented and imposed in 1947 by a dictator... You made error with [r] so to for [ɛ]... It's me who writed to Stephen to correct you RR [r] with R [ɾ], but he keeped the [ɛ] still is [e] epsilon... Also please add your speaked language in profile. Gmazdên 14:21, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

As I said above. Please try to read carefully what I say (maybe look up words here or there, I notice your English isn't perfect, so you might miss some things of what I'm saying). The thing with [r] was just a human error (and I'm glad someone else did notice and correct it). I'm not stopping you to add Gheg at derë or anywhere else, but I am saying we shouldn't mix things up. Also, realize I'm not correcting you. In fact, I would encourage speakers of Gheg to use their language instead of slowly assimilating to Tosk. --JorisvS 14:38, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

You don't respond my question : are you Shqiptar/Albanian ? Also about language add you knowledge (babel) in user page, please. I'm level 3 English not 5 or 4 but 3... Edit only language that you know at level 4 or 5... Still stop reverse, it's [e] and not [ɛ] pig & door aren't related. Make the difference between those two term. Gmazdên 14:45, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

I haven't because it is totally irrelevant. Only what I've said above is relevant (at least so far). First read carefully what I've written above, then ask for clarification if you don't understand something I've said. After that we can continue this discussion, I hate repeating myself. And if I may remark, I've seen your posts here and on Stephen G. Brown's talk page, from which I suspect en-3 is on the high side for you, no offense. --JorisvS 14:56, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

You think that it's irrelevant to add language you speak and write while editing a world dictionary ??? It's really astonishing... Please, don't insult my people. Good bye. Gmazdên 15:07, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

To this discussion, yes. I wonder, how have I "insulted your people"?? I really don't see how I can have. --JorisvS 15:14, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Just an advice edit language that you personally speak at level 4 of 5. That's all, if you don't understand difference between pig [dɛr·ə] & door [dɛr·ə] it's your problem, don't impose to all world, your controversial point of view. Still, I'm sure it's [deɾ·ə]. Good bye. Gmazdên 15:50, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

I edit with sense, if I'm not certain of something, I don't do it. This does not mean I won't make mistakes, I'm human just like everyone else, so I'm bound to make mistakes here and there. Sometimes I notice them myselves and fix them, sometimes I don't and someone else comes by. You are the one who doesn't seem to be getting my point: Gheg ≠ Tosk. --JorisvS 16:08, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Errare humanum est, I know, but it's seems that you don't understand what I say, are you albanian ? What's your Albanian Level ? Gmazdên 16:22, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

In response to that I've said that it doesn't matter IMO. In the beginning I've said why I changed the (phoneTic) [e] to phoneMic /ɛ/, because that's kind of the convention for Tosk, at least the one I've seen. (Do you know what the difference between a phonetic and a phonemic transcription is?) I realize Gheg makes a phonemic distinction between /e/ and /ɛ/ (well, at least now I do), but as I edited it with Tosk in mind that isn't really very important (well, maybe to you it is; you edit them with only your native Gheg in mind? Then this is what I mean when I say "we shouldn't mix these up"). --JorisvS 16:41, 6 February 2011 (UTC)


I think the rank en-2 is more fitting of your level of English than en-3. You might consider changing "en-3" to "en-2". --Dan Polansky 11:24, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi, I keep level 3, cause I understand at level 4, but since I don't speak English everyday, my level is two, so (2+4)/2=3... Thanks for you help. Good day. Gmazdên 19:58, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
If you look at the box of en-3, it says "This user is able to contribute with an advanced level of English", emphasis on "contribute" by me. Thus, the box does not state the level at which you understand English but rather the level at which you are able to produce English. That is why I think that en-2 would be accurate for you while en-3 is rather inaccurate. --Dan Polansky 20:21, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

I understand your point of view but I don't add English stuff... But Arabian, Alabanian, and I begin to stop to add by myself since other reverte, so now, I ask admin to do the job, or I add in Request... But thanks for you advice. Good bye. Gmazdên 21:00, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

So you are saying that inaccurate information on your user page is okay as long as it does not affect anything, right? I do not share this stance. You should only state what is correct, no matter how consequential it is. --Dan Polansky 06:42, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi, think my level is correct. Good bye. Gmazdên 08:19, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

email notifications[edit]

emailed: How to be notified, when someone modify page that are on my watchlist ?
I checked box in preference but I don't receive email notification... Gmazdên

I don’t know. I don’t accept email notifications for page edits so I don’t know if it is even possible.

emailed: Hi, Stephen, I want to propose a feature, why do you not obligate people to add facebook identification in their profile ? It's useful and better. I think you should propose this stuff for all Wiki... A plug-in to link the two would be wonderful (wiki user page communication and contribution memorised in face book, and facebook information (name, state, age) in wiki)... Gmazdên

I do not see what benefit this might be. Facebook is popular with housewives and teenagers, but I don’t see why any of us would be interested in it. —Stephen (Talk) 11:12, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

For identification purpose and authentication of real identity of contributor ; to avoid fake user. To get easily author of vandalism by the wiki police (to prevent vandalism). Gmazdên 11:43, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Also, I don't understand why Wiki still allow Anonymous edit ? Or people without User Page information like babel & others stuff, or worse blank ? Gmazdên 12:14, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

We don’t have problems with fake users. Almost all users are unknown, so fake is meaningless. When necessary, we can use a "check-user" program that finds the location of a contributor, even an anonymous one. Many people insist on maintaining anonymity and would not contribute anything if their real identity were known. Some users who allow their identity to be known have been stalked by a cyberbully, with severe consequences in their real lives. In fact, it is advisable that the contributors here and on Wikipedia keep their identities a closed secret, in order to avoid being stalked by a cyberbully. —Stephen (Talk) 13:29, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't talk about user, but contributor, for some case you ask to apply rules, add sources & references, so I believes that using real identity for contributors will prevent some vandalism, and will impose contributor to be more precise & conscious. However, I have difficulty to understand your policy... Gmazdên 14:23, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Request entries[edit]

emailed: Hi, Request entries have disappeared on wiktionary home page ??? Gmazdên

Try clearing your cache. If your browser is Firefox, press alt-F5 to do this. (I don’t know about Windows Explorer.) —Stephen (Talk) 13:52, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

personnal wiki[edit]

emailed: Hi, with Incubator can I create a personnal wiki ??? For my idea, project, like a web page but using Wiki Server & Code ? Gmazdên

No, each project must be in line with the WikiMedia image and provide real value to the organization. WikiMedia owns each project and no editor or admin has any rights of propriety over any project or any page. I know that it is your dream to have your own personal wiki, but that is impossible under WikiMedia. The only way you can do it is to create your own website. You can find wiki software for free at That is the only way you can do what you have in mind. —Stephen (Talk) 06:57, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Ok, thanks, it's would be great & wonderful If everybody can have his own wiki in a section of his facebook... Gmazdên 12:05, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

What's the name of the wiki tool in sourceforge ? Gmazdên 14:02, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

I think it’s an application or program, not just a tool. Anyway, I suppose you should search for anything on SourceForge that has "wiki" in the name. Either you must know about programming or you will need to find a programmer to install it and set it up. I know nothing about it since I am not a programmer. There is an army of programmers that work for WikiMedia Foundation that work very hard to keep the Wikipedias and Wiktionaries up and running correctly, so I imagine that it is very complex. —Stephen (Talk) 07:27, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't know programmer that will help me freely, and I don't have money to finance his work, I live in a small town & they are bad minded... I though perhaps I have to learn web programming. But really I don't have time, since I'm sick (bone decease), and I prefer to learn Arabian, directly from the source by doing the pilgrim before my death. Hope that one day a personal wiki would be available for all, pre formated and easy access in face book profile or else, to allow any one to have is own encyclopaedia/dictionary/book (with an function that retrieve personnal contribution from other wiki automatically, and add to this "backup page")... May be I'm just a dreamer. Thanks for your help any way. Good day. Gmazdên 19:33, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

kuptôj IPA[edit]

emailed: when adding this form in etymology : {{etyl|la|sq}} {{term|computo|tr=gomputô|lang=la}}

I would like to replace "tr=" by IPA how to do ? Thanks Gmazdên

You can’t do it like that. First, the "tr=" is for transcription of non-Roman scripts into Roman script. That is, it is for Cyrillic, Arabic, Armenian, Japanese, etc., but it is not intended for Latin, German, French, or Albanian. Second, we use IPA for the pronunciation (in the pronunciation section of an entry, under the header Pronunciation), we don’t use it in etymologies. So, that Latin etymology form can only be this way: {{etyl|la|sq}} {{term|computo|lang=la}}. —Stephen (Talk) 17:17, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Ok, thanks professor... Gmazdên 17:30, 17 February 2011 (UTC)


emailed: Hi, in Derë, I would like to add noun deviation for Gheg, how should I structure this add ?
I tried to add "{{aln-noun|" but it doesn't works. Thanks

{{sq-noun|f|dyer|dera|dyert}} (Tosk)

{{sq-noun|f|dyrë|dera|dyrtë}} (Gheg)

  1. door
Since they have different plural and other forms, I think you should do it this way:

{{sq-noun|f|dyer|dera|dyert}} (Tosk)

{{sq-noun|f|dyrë|dera|dyrtë}} (Gheg)

  1. door —Stephen (Talk) 11:23, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

kokë by JorisvS[edit]

I noticed that you replaced the pronunciation of kokë [qɔq] by kokë [kɔkə], you are diminishing variety of sound of Gheg people (we use nasal, uvular plosive, [e]), yes there is uvular in Gheg albanian because we use sound Qaf of the Quran like the Arab, I'm Gheg muslim, I'm not a tosk orthodox, using only kappa instead of removed Qoppa... Gmazdên 17:37, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Check kuran [quran], kandar & kafaz (SQ_Arabic_Derivation), I said before K in albanian have two valor [k & q] like E [e / ɛ] & O [o / ɔ], and we use K [q] for Arabian word using Qaf ق [q]. Gmazdên 17:45, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Interesting, that would make Gheg the only European language to use a uvular plosive (save for Caucasian languages). Can you point me to audio/video files in which Gheg is used? I would love to hear it for myself. --JorisvS 16:50, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Afrim Muqiqi, Adem Ramadani, Ramadan Krasniqi, Duli, Bekim Kumanova, Ilir Shaqiri, Mentor Kurtishi, Pandora, ERA TV (mk), RTK TV Sat, and many others ( The best word to use what I describe is Kalê [qalɛ] who means illuminate... I suggest you, to search for an ancient albanian dictionary using Ottoman Arabic script, like that you will see what word use Kaf ك [k] & Qaf ق [q]. I'm searching for such book, to complete info in Wiktionary by checking ancient writing system, I would like to add Greek Script version to (from Arbanite), to differentiate, Epsilon & Êta and Omicron & Ômega in albanian word... And I probably have to go in Albania to get one to scan & add in Google Book or else... Gmazdên 17:47, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

There is an another people who use Q [q], the Ashkali (Roma, Kale) who live in Balkan... Gmazdên 17:53, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Can you understand these Ashkali when they speak? --JorisvS 18:08, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
No, and it's why I beginned to make research with Babylon 8 & Lingvosoft, to translate those term, those Ashkali, Malok & Majub, have really strange language, their language is from various source and from others space. But still I love listening their song, search Cita_Amza Sevcet, Dzemail or Nehat_Gashi on Youtube... Gmazdên 18:43, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Could you give me a minimal pair (words that differ only by one sound) of the [q] with [k] and [g]? Thanks in advance. --JorisvS 18:01, 5 March 2011 (UTC)


emailed: I added word (urroj) and Dick Laurent, replaced [ɪ] by [j], I prefer to use [ɪ] because it's better for English user who read J has [ʤ]... Also he removed the separation [·] that I use to differentiate word extension like :

- [ur·ɔɪ]
- [ur·ɔva]
- [ur·aɾ]
What do you suggest ? I noticed that some user use [.] or ['], I prefer [·]... Gmazdên

IPA is a precise system that is not open to user preference. IPA [j] is always like English <y>, never like [ʤ]. [j] cannot be a separate vowel, it makes up part of a diphthong: aj, oj, ja, jo. IPA [ɪ] is a separate vowel (like the short ‘i’ of Dutch ik or English bit) and it does not produce a diphthong. Your hypothetical *urɔɪ has three syllables: u-rɔ-ɪ; on the other hand, urɔj has only two syllables: u-rɔj.
IPA does not use <·> for anything. The symbol ˈ means that the following syllable bears the word’s primary word-stress. It is not a separator, but a stress marker. The optional dot (.) is used to demarcate syllables. In the Albanian word urroj, there are only two syllables, and in IPA the syllables are marked like this: [u.rɔj]. If the word stress is on the ‘u’, then you can write [ˈu.rɔj]; however, if the stress is on the ultimate syllable, they you would write [uˈrɔj]. French words do not really have a stress, so stress is not marked in French. In Hungarian and Czech, the stress is always on the first syllable.
These symbols are not a matter of user preference, they each have a special and unique use in IPA, and no other symbols can be substituted. If you substitute [ɪ] for [j], or <·> for <.>, then it is not IPA. —Stephen (Talk) 04:25, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi, I listened the IPA, and I confounded the sound [ɪ] with [j]. I corrected my mistake. About [.] [·] the position of [·] look better. I separate the term at extension level, example interior (latin) /in·ter·jor/ or /com·put·ɔ/. May be everybody have his own pronunciation. I use Ô [ɔ] at end of verb because in Ancient Greek the verb extension is -ιζω [izɔ] / -ω [ɔ] and ָה [ɔ] in Hebrew, so I'm sure that in old Latin they used [ɔ] for verb ending like albanian use -ÔJ [ɔj] from -IÔ [jɔ], since noun use -O [o] & -OS/-US [os]. Gmazdên 08:15, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

IPA does not permit substitution of standard symbols, so "looks better" is irrelevant. [·] is not a permitted symbol, only [.] is allowed. And [.] cannot separate morphemes (extension level), but only syllables: [u.rɔj], [inˈte.rjor]. As I said, if you use [·] for anything, or if you separate morphemes (extension level) with [.], then it is not IPA. —Stephen (Talk) 09:20, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I used [·] for Latin extension & prefix, like com-, prae-, in-, im-, di- / dis- de-, re-... You suggest me to use [.] but really I don't like his appearance, it's not nice... What sign to use for prefix then ? In my point of view I use [·] to separate prefix·root·extension. And [.] is for syllables not prefix or extension. Since you speak Arabian, you know what I means by root (3 Semitics letters Combination) between prefix & extension (a, ô, iô, ia, atiô, -ens/-entis, -ins/-intis, -ans/-antis, -emens/-ementis...). Gmazdên 12:58, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

In the IPA pronunciation, nothing special is needed for prefixes or suffixes. The pronunciation section is not the place to worry about affixes and roots. In the word president, pre- is a prefix (it means "sitting before"). British and American syllables are often different, so for the British, write /ˈpɹɛ.zɨd.ənt/; for American, /ˈpɹɛz.ɨ.dɛnt/. It does not matter if the appearance is not nice, it is correct. Any IPA with [·] is not permitted.
In the etymology section, it is a different story. In the etymology, we don’t use IPA, but we do recognize prefixes and suffixes. For prefixes, we have {{prefix|sesqui|pedalian|t1=one and a half|t2=of the foot}}; for suffixes, {{suffix|sesquipedalian|ism}}: sesqui- (one and a half) +‎ pedalian (of the foot). —Stephen (Talk) 13:37, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

May be I invented the merging of IPA & Etymology by separating prefix & extension. One day, all will say I'm right to separate in IPA the prefix... What sign you suggest, since [ˈ] is stress & [.] syllable. Gmazdên 13:54, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

You can use [ˈ], [.], or nothing. It is correct to write [u.rɔj], [urɔj], /u.rɔj/ or /urɔj/. However, place the marks only between syllables...if a prefix or a suffix does not make an independent and complete syllable, then you can’t mark it. Prefixes and suffixes are addressed in the etymology. It would be helpful to mark the stress using [ˈ], but not mandatory. Linguists have been using IPA for years already, and nobody has ever suggested that your invention is right. Nobody will accept it and it would only lead to more trouble. —Stephen (Talk) 14:02, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
I don’t understand what you are doing with the [ˈ] mark. That mark is for the primary word stress, nothing else. You have indicated that Albanian pronounces "ab-SO-lut" (every other European language pronounces it either "ab-so-LUT" or "AB-so-lut"). Is it really true that Albanian says "ab-SO-lut"? Then you have "ab-SO-lu-TISHT", with two primary stresses. Some of the edits you made indicate that there are three or more primary word stresses. I do not believe this is possible in any human language.
Besides that, many of the stress marks are in the wrong position (assuming that they are stressing the correct vowel). The stress mark precedes the stressed syllable, not just the vowel. I suspect that you are making a bunch of serious errors and that we will either have to find another Albanian speaker to fix them, or we will have to revert everything. I am certain that you are using the stress mark incorrectly...but what is it that you are trying to do with it? —Stephen (Talk) 16:49, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
You put [abˈsɔɾbˈɔj]. I believe that you are using the stress mark to delineate prefixes and suffixes, and that you are not using it to show stress at all. If this is true, everything you are doing will have to be reverted. If you are doing that, stop it before you make our job much bigger. If you cannot edit according to the rules, then please do not edit. You are making a big mess. —Stephen (Talk) 17:00, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

I asked you before, about separating prefix, you don't know what IPA standard sign to use. If this stress mark is a problem, then let me use [·], if it's not good to, I will not use [ˈ] or [.] and keep it in form of absɔɾbɔj, but I would like to separate the prefix in the IPA, I'm not expert of all sign of IPA like you... I added {etyl|??|sq} in word to list them in [[1]]. Nobody else has done before, and someone (albanian) need to do it. Explain me where I'm mistaking, I will learn and improve my add. Why to reverse, just correct error. Gmazdên 17:10, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Stephen you speak French, please explain me in French about word stress I don't understand his purpose in English... Gmazdên 17:15, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

If you want I can erase the stress mark to correct... Gmazdên 17:27, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

I will try one more time. Si vous pouvez lire un peu de grec, vous savez que le grec utilise les marques d’accentuation sur les syllabes accentuées: αγρονόμος, αγρυπνία, αγρόκτημα, αγρότης, αγρότισσα, αγχολυτικό, αγωγή. L’accent grec marque la syllabe accentuée. En IPA, ce sont environ ainsi : /a.ɣroˈno.mos/, /a.ɣripˈni.a/, /aˈɣ, /aˈɣro.tis/, /aˈɣ, /aŋˈko/, /a.ɣoˈji/. La marque d’accentuation [ˈ] précède la syllabe contenant la voyelle accentuée.
En arabe, كتب est prononcée /ˈkæ.tæ.bæ/ (l’accent sur la première syllabe). أتان est prononcée /ʡæˈtæːn/. كسّر est prononcée /ˈkæ.sːæ.ræ/. La marque d’accentuation [ˈ] précède la syllabe accentuée dans chaque cas.
Vous pouvez utiliser la marque d’accentuation [ˈ] (pour marquer la syllabe accentuée, c’est-à-dire la syllabe soulignée) ou la marque des syllabes [.] ((pour marquer les autres syllabes), ou ne pas mettre n’importe quelle marque. I suspect that absorboj should be pronounced /abˈsɔɾ.bɔj/ (l’accent sur l’avant-dernière), but I am not sure. But I do know that what you wrote is wrong. If you do not want to put the stress mark at the beginning of the stressed syllable, and if you don’t want to put [.] between the other syllables, then don’t do use either mark at all. Just write /absɔɾbɔj/. Those are the only three choices you have. All of those marks that you put in will have to be removed because they are all incorrect. If you cannot place the marks properly, then please go back and removed all of them. Leave it as /absɔɾbɔj/ and edit all of the other words the same way. It is better to have no marks than to have wrong marks. —Stephen (Talk) 18:13, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

You right, our world dictionary must be precise & correct, I checked wikipedia page and it's seems that it would be better to use [.] (syllable separation). For prefix, I hope that one day IPA group will allow [·]... I will correct my add, but not now cause I'm tired. Thanks for you explication & patience with me. To summarize, Stress Mark [ˈ] is Accentuation & [ˌ] Attenuation... I learn more every day. Gmazdên 18:22, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

[ˈ] s’agit de la syllabe la plus pondérée; [ˌ] s’agit de la syllabe moyenne pondérée (ou l’accent secondaire). Toutes les autres syllabes sont légeres. La plupart des langues n’a pas cette syllabe moyenne pondérée, mais seulement une syllabe plus pondérée et toutes les autres légères. En anglais, l’accent secondaire est très important, et beaucoup de mots anglais ont un accent primaire (la plus pondérée) ainsi que d’un accent secondaire (moyenne pondérée): encyclopedia = /ɪnˌsaɪ.kləˈpi.diə/. La seconde syllabe est moyenne pondérée, tandis que la quatrième syllabe est la plus pondérée. —Stephen (Talk) 19:32, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

I replaced the [ˈ] by [.]... My personal pronunciation of encyclopaedia based on my research his [en.sˤyglo.pajd.ja], from Cycle & Global גלגלגלובוס‎, also paedia (kid) is related to persan پدر(pedar, father)... Gmazdên 08:25, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

I added in arrij, related term mrrij (Gheg) & mbërrij (Tosk), but I'm thinking if it would be better to add in alternative form ? What do you suggest ? Gmazdên 08:46, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

If they all mean the same thing, to arrive, then I would put them under synonyms. Put them under related terms if they share the same root (-rrij) but have different meanings, like arrive, arrival, and arriving. I would put them under alternative forms only if the only difference was in how some letter is written, as in oeuf and œuf. —Stephen (Talk) 09:23, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Well I readed etymology in the Book of Vladimir Borel, and he explain that mbërrij (tosk) is deviation of arrij (latin : arrivô), in Skopje, we & me use mrrij (Gheg)... Has I said before Tosk is falsification of Latin & Ottoman (by adding or changing consonant or by changing phonetic : n→nd, q/g→ng, j→nj, pr→mbr, b→br, g→gj, y→i, ê→i, ô→u, q→tsh, n→r), I hope you checked my add about variation of Gheg & Tosk term in wikipedia, the Shqip changed many time alphabet script, from Latin to Arabic (Ottoman), Greek & Cyrillic (Bulgarian & Slavic Empire), so errors & misspelling occurred... Gmazdên 10:16, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Ô & Ō Caladon[edit]

I use Ô for sound [ɔ], but O macron means [:o] long O, the ending verb is [ɔ] like Ancient Greek verb using -ιζω [izɔ] / -ω [ɔ] and not [o] (who is used for noun)... The sign Ô + Ō for long [:ɔ] don't exist in Unicode Charts (the only thing that looks like his Ṑ Ṓ, zoom page to see macro + accent). Gmazdên 14:30, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

I cannot understand what you are trying to say, but please see the respective Latin entries, which contain macrons in the positions where you are placing circumflexes; see Wiktionary:ALA#Orthography_for_Latin_entries and the respective Wikipedia page on spelling and pronunciation Latin spelling and pronunciation. Caladon 14:37, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, for you link, all right I will read suggestion. In Old Latin V is [w/u] [v] is in classical, I is [j & i], G is [g & ʒ], O is [o & ɔ], E [e & ɛ], C is [g & q] and CH is [qʰ] and not [kʰ] and Q is [q] and not [k]... [2]. Gmazdên 14:55, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Latin never used any uvular, so no [q]. Latin did not use [ʒ] either, always [g] (which only later developed into [d͡ʒ] before front vowels). --JorisvS 16:44, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

It's what you think and you mistaking, there is difference between old, classical & late Latin, such with ancient Ellêniq & modern Greek... G [ʒ] replaced Z [z] and in Slavic [ʒ] is Ž, I don't know why Q [q] became [k] or [ʨ/ʧ] with time, but in Arabic & Muslim Dialect we still use [q], [d͡ʒ] is in English, in French lot of Latin word using G are pronounced [ʒ] & in French [d͡ʒ] doesn't exist... Also, please, don't interfere between my discussion with others people please... I'm feeling like spying by you. Gmazdên 16:54, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

There is no relationship between Arabic and Latin whatsoever. Latin did not use any uvulars, that is thoroughly documented. I am curious from where you got the idea, though. --JorisvS 17:58, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, there are a lot of Hebrew/Arabian word related to Latin & Greek... If you speaked Semitic you will understand, but since English have so deviated pronunciation, you will never understand the link between those, I'm proud to speak French & Albanian and to be able to understand Italian & to had eared Spanish. I hope that a wiki bot will shown you a automated list of related word between Semitic & Rôman...

How I had this idea, well I'm writing a book, so I searched, and all Latin & Greek word use Semitic binary combination (two letter) to make new term... If you had studied the Coran, the Torah, the Purana (Sanskrit), the Greek, the Latin & the Shqip, like I did, you would understand, still it's my discovery & my work. I added a board above about code of mutation of letter based upon numerological value... It's a puzzle and if you try to understand using only English, you will not understand, cause this language have really deviated phonology if you compare the source / root / origin. Gmazdên 18:08, 21 February 2011 (UTC)


What makes you think that "arrivo" is a Latin word? You have entered "arrivo" into the etymology of arrij; what is the source of that etymology? --Dan Polansky 10:55, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

You begin to tired me with your source, it's from Vladimor Borel book (p10), you should know that Shqip is Scipio Latin & use also Greek/Ottoman Persian root... From Latin arrivāre, present active infinitive of Arrivo (“to arrive”). Arrivo is Latin. Gmazdên 11:06, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Check simple past conjugation of arrij (it's arrive, arriva), are you always put into question/doubt the opinion and ideas of others ? You should perhaps have confidence & trust on others, I'm albanian (Shqiptar) why would I lie about language of my people ? Gmazdên 11:12, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
You don't speak Shqip / Français / Spanish / Latin enough to see the difference, in albanian beginning letter of Latin word are removed like for Honor & Ner, or unio & një, nomen & emën, harena & rënë, computo & kuptoj. Also Ô is replaced by U or others variation (C & Q becoming K), and for Arrij the ending V is removed, only someone who speak many language can understand that, the Tosk falsification use removing of first or ending letter, or by adding double consonant... Gmazdên 11:19, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Also the difference between Gheg & Tosk is flagrant, Gheg don't pronounce ending Ë or Ë between word (added latter by tosk, like shtrembëroj & shtremboj), we use nasal, uvular [q] & [e], we use PR- and Tosk replace it with MBR-, and the orthodox have replaced -në ending by -rë, like zotëni & zotëri to prevent comprehension of word of Latin origin, I have the code and I know Ancient Gheg so I know the falsification... Still you don't speak Shqip so why do you ask, you even don't understand what I'm talking about ??? Gmazdên 11:23, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Some etymology are evident (from Greek & Latin). From 300 to 1400 Roman have controlled Balkan (Rumely), until the arrival of Turkish Ottoman, now lot of Shqip & Shkup (Scipio & Scupi) new word are from Arabic/Persian source, and some other from Slavic, but for lot of word the root is evident. Gmazdên 11:43, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Can you point me to a Latin dictionary that contains "arrivo" as a Latin term? Alternatively, can you point me to quotations of Latin texts that contain "arrivo", "arrivere" or another inflected form of the supposedly Latin term? I have some serious doubts about "arrivo" being a Latin word, so I would like to see some references or evidence that I can check. I am not interested in your etymological reasoning and speculation, only in references to academic sources, and in evidence as found in quotations from primary sources--Latin texts.--Dan Polansky 11:35, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

It's seems that you are right, Vladimir point arrivare to romanian, I confused rom & lat, the etymology of french arriver & spanish arribar, tell that is from vulgar latin arripare (arripo). Gmazdên 11:43, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
All apologies, I'm sorry you're right. Gmazdên 11:52, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Kuptoj IPA Dick Laurent[edit]

Hi, read my talk with Stephen about IPA...

First thanks for correcting my error on [ɪ] & [j], I believed that [ɪ] was pronounced [j].

About Kuptoj, I use prefix-word-suffix separation and you use syllabic division, who is incorrect since everybody have his own pronunciation. I would like to asking you to don't change my IPA Gheg version, please. Like Stephen said to me, British & American have different IPA. Your IPA look like American in example President :

British /ˈpɹɛ.zɨd.ənt/ (Gmazdên)

American /ˈpɹɛz.ɨ.dɛnt/ (Dick Laurent)

The British is more correct, because they separate prefix, affix & suffix (extension). To better understand word assembling. Your syllabic IPA is individual pronunciation, who can be different from persons to others, please keep my version using prefix-word-suffix(extension). Since it's more logical... Please, Thanks Gmazdên 19:58, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Can you explain me the Wiki syntax code for Declension for noun, adverb & others of Shqip ? Any link ? Please. Gmazdên 20:28, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

I checked declension of burrë, and I'm asking, do you have masculine & feminine declension variant for NounF ? What is the -ët ending ? Like babë & babët, baba & babat. Can you explain me. Gmazdên 20:35, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

I noticed that you add for lot of word using GJ I.P.A [ɟʑ] don't need to add two letter it's [ɟ] alone... Gmazdên 22:24, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

  1. IPA is pronunciation, phonology. Not morphology. The affixes are not important to that. Showing affixes is for ===Etymology===, not ===Pronunciation===.
  2. Albanian gj may be [ɟ] in some places, but I've never heard it pronounced such. I was so hellbent on finding this that I had a Hungarian listen to albanian words with gj and q, because her language actually has [ɟ], and she says it sounds very different from the sounds in Hungarian. So I'm going to use [ɟʑ], at least for Tosk. — [ R·I·C ] Laurent — 22:24, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

You say "I've never heard", where do heared those ? What city are you talking about, did you lived there ? I still believe that your syllabic separation is not ideal. It's a personal point of view, still the IPA pronunciation is the same, even if you use [kup.tɔj / kom.pu.tɔ] or [qupt.ɔj / gom.put.ɔ] (جمع‎ / געם‎ [gmo/gom] : with مع‎ / עם‎ [mo/om])... But for word structure representation, I still believe that prefix-word-suffix is better than binary syllabic sounds, if you use a IPA robot voice synthesiser, I'm sure that you will not ear difference in the pronunciation... I just downloaded some old movie from Albania, and their pronunciations is realy different, they use only [a] & not [ɑ & ɒ], the Gheg & Tosk are really different phonetically, I still prefer my Skopje language more rich & with more sound. Gmazdên 23:22, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

And about syntax code for declension ? Any link ? And the -ËT ending what's his use, I speak Shqip, but I never learned grammar, because I'm living since I was a baby in Belgium. Gmazdên 23:24, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

If you want I send you a record of the pronunciation of Kuptoj Gheg & Tosk variant to check difference. About IPA, this is not how they (Tosk) pronounce. But how it should be perfectly pronounced, by respecting the source, prefix, root, etymology and original ancestral letter value, if a word is from Greek and use omicron [o] instead of ômega [ɔ] you should then use [o] & not [ɔ] in Shqip, like biologji, if the word use Epsilon, like energji, don't use [ɛ] but [e], and for Arabic, we should look at a Arabic Script Albanian Dictionary of Ottoman Era, for the [q] & the [k]... Also Krijoj (Tosk) from latin crêô is misspelling caused by usage of Greek Script, where Ancient Ellêniqë ϘΡΗΩ / CRÊÔ [qrɛ.ɔ] became Modern Greek κρηω / krio [kri.o]. So alternative form deviation of Gheg version is caused by utilisation of translation of Modern Greek Script to Latin script by Tosk who don't use ancient phonetic value of Ancient Ellêniqë Attic. Like Hypje & Hipje, krypë & Kripë or Hydro & Hidro and so on... Do you know an ancient Shqip (before 1945) dictionary using Greek script ? I believe that these people are Arvanites & living in Qameria. Gmazdên 11:25, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Other example of ê [ɛ] & i [i] variation : jêm [jɛm] & jim [jim] (ϳημ : Arbënit), têm & tim (τημ : Arbënit)... Ypsilon & Ipsilon, Ftyra / Ftira (φτυρα : Arbënit), Qiky / Qyky (Ϙ̇υϙυ : Arbënit). Gmazdên 15:49, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

I thinking about something, Kripë [krip] (Tosk) & Krypë [qryp] (Gheg) : Salt is a Crystal / ϘΡΥΣΤΑΛΟ [qrysθalo] (O.E) κρύσταλο [kristalo] (M.G) of Sodium Chloride, can be Cryo & Crystal be his crypted / ϘΡΥΠΤΗ (QRUPTĒ) [qrypθɛ] κρύπτη (krýpti) [kripti] origin ? Gmazdên 13:16, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

About [ɟʑ], could it be possible to pronounce two consonant ? it's [ɟ] or [ʑ], I don't believe that both sound are used. Check IPA and for [ʑ] IPA. Gmazdên 14:30, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Are you there ? Gmazdên 11:23, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

I would like to add alternative for all word, using the Αρβανίτες (Arbanitês, Arbërêsh), using the Greek Script, I would like to find ΛΕΞΙΚΟΝ ΤΗΣ ΑΛΒΑΝΙΚΗΣ ΓΛΩΣΣΗΣ (1908), do you know where I could find a PDF version ??? I really need an Albanian Dictionary using Greek & Arabic script... Gmazdên 19:48, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Your English level[edit]

I am bothering you with this again. I have asked you to reduce your indicated English level to en-2, and you have refused. I am asking you again to reduce your English level at least to en-2; if you decide to reduce it to en-1, that is okay with me and quite possibly accurate. From what I have seen, your stating your level as en-3 is highly inaccurate. Several native English speakers had repeatedly difficulties understanding what you were saying on-wiki. Your English vocabulary seems rather rich, but your grammar and sentence structure makes it hard to understand what you are saying, although not impossible with some additional effort. While I admit that your stated English level is a minor issue to complain about, you should learn that accuracy matters, and the place where you can start learning that is at your indicated English level. So please reduce your indicated English level at least to en-2, for the sake of accuracy. --Dan Polansky 09:54, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

I have explained above, that I understand at level 4 & Level 2 in grammar (2+4=6/2=3). But since I don't use English everyday cause I live in a French speaking country, I have forgotten some school teaching, and I don't listen west music (MTV) since I beginned to listen Hindu/Persian/Arabic & Balkanic music... Because you ask me continuously to correct my English Level, I will decrease to 2... Like that you will be happy. I can understand that I use another sentence structure/syntax than yours, probably Shqip or French like. I understand your focus on my Babel Level, but it's just informative, because some contributor don't show their level on their personal user page, so why are you such occupy about those optional level... Are you an Admin ? Gmazdên 11:47, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
Thank you; I appreciate it.
I have no admin rights; I cannot block people. I just like when people use Babel and when their Babel is accurate. --Dan Polansky 20:06, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

sound files[edit]

emailed: I have some misunderstanding with some people who don't believe me when I say that we use [q] or [e] & nasal in Gheg, so I thinked to record my pronunciation, to add next IPA Gheg word, I can record both Tosk & Gheg variant.

My question is, what format of sound should I use (wav, ogg, m4a, mono / stereo ?), and where shall I put those files and how to make the audio player link.

It's for derë, kokë and others ?

Audio IPA will help those who don't believe me, to comprehend what I'm talking about (nasal, uvular, e/ê, o/ô).

Use the ogg format. Upload the ogg files to the Commons. The link is made like this: {{audio|Sq-derë.ogg|derë}} or {{audio|Sq-gheg-derë.ogg|derë}}. —Stephen (Talk) 16:19, 24 February 2011 (UTC)


emailed: I added some file in Commom, but wiki ask me for copyright & permission, I don't what to add ? It's free, can you grant me permission please ? Nemzag

I think you can click EDIT and just add this:
== {{int:license}} == {{PD-self}}
This will add the following copyright information:
I, the copyright holder of this work, release this work into the public domain. This applies worldwide.
In some countries this may not be legally possible; if so:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law. —Stephen (Talk) 06:53, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Tonos en grec ancien[edit]

emailed: Bonjour, vous m'avez expliqué l'accent IPA à partir du Grec, j'aimerais vous demandez quel est l'utilité de l'accent aigu & grave, l'esprit dur & leger, et le Tonos en grec ancien ?

Quel difference entre un yspilon & ypsilon tonos ? Nemzag

We believe (nobody knows for certain) that Ancient Greek was a tonal language, like Swedish or Chinese. The accent aigu in Ancient Greek indicated the high pitch (l’accent de hauteur) on short vowels, or a high and falling accent (élévé et la baisse) on long vowels or diphthongs; the accent grave indicated the low pitch (accent de faible hauteur). The accent grave was identical to having no accent. Ypsilon (υ) was pronounced like French ‘u’ in (à faible hauteur); ypsilon tonos (ύ) was like German ü in (accent de hauteur).
In Modern Greek, it is different. —Stephen (Talk) 13:42, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your explication but you don't don't explained Tonos, esprit doux & rude, may be you don't understand esprit rude / leger because in English it's called Psili & Dasia ; what difference between :

  • Όό Tonos (τόνος) : (high pitch / l’accent de hauteur)
  • Ὀὀ Psili (ψιλή spīritus lēnis = no h) : (unaspirated, no effect)
  • Ὁὁ Dasia (δασεία spiritus asper = English h) : (aspirated, pronounced ‘ho’ with English/German /h/)
  • Ὸὸ Varia (Βαρειά Grave) : low pitch (accent de faible hauteur). The accent grave was identical to having no accent.
  • Όό Oxia (οξεία Acute) : high pitch (l’accent de hauteur) on short vowels, or a high and falling accent (élévé et la baisse) on long vowels or diphthongs
  • Ὄὄ Psili Varia : (unaspirated, high pitch, = /ó/. Used only at the beginning of a word.)
  • Ὅὅ Psili Oxia : (aspirated, high pitch, = /hó/. Used only at the beginning of a word.)
  • Ὂὂ Dasia Varia : (unaspirated, low pitch, = /o/. Used only at the beginning of a word.)
  • Ὃὃ Dasia Oxia : (aspirated, low pitch, = /ho/. Used only at the beginning of a word.)

I readed that sometime Varia & Oxia are used for long vowel...

I asked you difference between Ypsilon, because I don't understand in Shqip :

Contrary ὕψος / ὑπέρ / super & ὑπό, what difference ? Deviated in Shqip by

(deprecated template usage) hypje (ʰypjê, ascent)

< ὕψος / ὑπέρ &

(deprecated template usage) zhdrype (Zhdrypê, descent)

< ὑπό.

Also ὑπό & ἵππος are not the same, even if in modern Greek they are both pronounced with [i], I believe albanian Tosk misspelling in comparison to Gheg, is caused by use of Byzantine Greek letter value instead of ancient attic. Gmazdên 07:21, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

ὕψος = hýpsos (aspirated h, French ‘u’, high pitch on first syllable)
ὑπέρ = hypér (aspirated h, high pitch on second syllable)
ὑπό = hypó (aspirated h, high pitch on second syllable)
ἵππος = híppos (aspirated h, high pitch on first syllable) —Stephen (Talk) 08:03, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

I believe you mistaking in Psili & Dasia above, you added unaspirated, aspirated, high & low, do you confound ? Because Psili is unaspirated & Dasia Aspirated. I don't understand...

  • Ὄὄ Psili Varia : (unaspirated, low pitch, = /o/. Used only at the beginning of a word.)
  • Ὅὅ Psili Oxia : (unaspirated, high pitch, = /hó/. Used only at the beginning of a word.)
  • Ὂὂ Dasia Varia : (aspirated, low pitch, = /o/. Used only at the beginning of a word.)
  • Ὃὃ Dasia Oxia : (aspirated, high pitch, = /hó/. Used only at the beginning of a word.)

About Hyper / Super & ὑπό, I'm not sure of pronunciation if it's [ʰuper super] & [ʰypo], or [ʰyper syper] & [ʰupo], from Latin supo & Albanian Hup [ʰup]. Devanagari also use aspirated and it's representation in IPA by [ʰ]. I will move the copyright section in sound section.... Gmazdên 08:38, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

No, Devanagari [ʰ] goes in combination with a preceding consonant: bʰ, tʰ, dʰ, etc. Ancient Greek h is like English h or German h: hyper, hypo, etc. —Stephen (Talk) 17:37, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

What is sc= in {{term ? Gmazdên 08:46, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

It means "script" (Cyrillic), sc=Grek (Greek), sc=Arab (Arabic), etc. Albanian uses Roman script, so you do not need this parameter. —Stephen (Talk) 17:31, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

There is something that I don't understand, when you write ancient Ellêniqë, you use diacritics & minuscule, but when I check old stone inscription on intelnet (Archaeological discovery), they use capital and no diacritics ? How do you know what diacritics to use, because has I know, old library of Ellêniqa & Latin book have been burned at Alexandria, Roma & Others by Christians/Judah after conversion to avoid polytheism ; also I believe that you should use minuscule for modern greek & capital for ancient Ellêniqë, since the two system of writing are different phonetically. Gmazdên 12:39, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

In earlier Greek writing, there was no uppercase/lowercase, there was only one single form, which corresponds to modern capitals. Also, they did not use any diacritics or word spaces. As the Ancient Greeks practiced their new writing, they began to see a need to separate words somehow, either with dots or with spaces...that is how word spaces were invented. As they wrote more and more, the old capital forms became cumbersome and awkward to use all the time, so they began to modify some letterforms into a more fluent script, needing which made writing much easier and faster. That is how the minuscule letters were invented. At first, some of the old capital letters were included at the beginning of a text as a decoration, but ultimately it became useful to begin each new phrase with a capital letter followed by minuscules...this helped to show where sentences and thoughts began and ended. Soon, writers decided to emphasis certain special words such as names of people by starting with a capital letter, and then uppercase/lowercase and capitalization were invented. Also, there was confusion between many readings that were spelled the same way, but pronounced they began to invent various diacritics to show breathing, tone, etc. Around this time, they saw the usefulness of punctuation marks, so some of those were invented. So, over the centuries, the word spaces, minuscules, diacritics, and punctuation were gradually invented and added to the orthography. By the time the classical stories such as Homer’s Iliad were written, the orthography had all of these amenities. —Stephen (Talk) 13:10, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for you explication, but do you know a good source (in ancient greek) using qoppa, san, zampi, vigamma for root / source seeking ? I still think that for ancient ellêniqë term, the use of Capital would be more logical, in my point view, the Capital (-300) & Minuscule (+800) are different system of writing, even if Byzantine use the capital for the first letter of term & pronoun, in fact the very ancient Crêggellênë used epichoric alphabet, are this variant implemented in wiktionary ? Is there original book using this alphabet still existing in Museum or scanned ? You spoked to me about old Latin, do you know a good dictionary or book (in English or French) using or explaining this language ? Gmazdên 13:55, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

w:History of the Greek alphabet. It is not feasible to use all capitals for some Greek words. For centuries, capital script and minuscule script coexisted, depending on the author, writing material, etc. I am sure that you would find some good books on Ancient Greek at Amazon. —Stephen (Talk) 14:21, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Any titles, I'm not an expert like you, you seams to know old Latin and ancient Ellêniqa so perhaps you have some title, about what you said about Homer, the version that we use don't have qoppa, san, vigamma letter. I believe this version is a copy from Byzantine era. I'm not sure if the original still exist. What's the oldest copy that we have in scan ? Oldest book were writed in gold to prevent corrosion. But only the library of Vatican keep those variant, I know that when Roma was burned by Christian, those old book using ancient script & letters were melted, so I'm not sure if those modern copy are authentic.

Do you know about positive & negative, like (sp)êlia / σπηλιά (spiliá) (under) & y(ps)o / υψηλώς (ypsilós) (up) and (ps)y / ψυ or plysê / πλύση (plýsi) ? How was writed pure in Old Latin ? I think that [up] is negative in Latin & [pu] positive. Gmazdên 10:42, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

two sections[edit]

Hi, I added a variant in ka for Albanian, I add IPA but I don't know how to separate the two section.

  • verb : ka [qɒ] (to have)
  • noun : ka [qa] (from) (Gheg) nga (Tosk)

In Skopje we use persian sound [ɒ]. Gmazdên

I don’t know what two sections you want to separate. Do you mean the verb section and the preposition section? —Stephen (Talk) 17:31, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi, I added a variant in ka for Albanian, I add IPA but I don't know how to separate the two section.

   verb : ka [qɒ] (to have)
   noun : ka [qa] (from) (Gheg) nga (Tosk)

In Skopje we use persian sound [ɒ]. Gmazdên

   I don’t know what two sections you want to separate. Do you mean the verb section and the preposition section? —Stephen (Talk) 17:31, 1 March 2011 (UTC) 

Hi, Well I'm talking about section structure : if you check english ka. You use : for ==Ka English==

Ka Pronunciation[edit]

Ka Etymology 1[edit]

Ka Noun[edit]

Ka Etymology 2[edit]

Ka Verb[edit]

Ka References[edit]

Ka Anagrams[edit]

But In albanian I asked how to separate the noun & the preposition : 2.





I would like to use this structure : ==Ka Albanian==

Ka Preposition[edit]

Ka Pronunciation[edit]

Ka Etymology[edit]

Ka Alternative forms[edit]

Ka Verb[edit]

Ka Pronunciation[edit]

Ka Usage notes[edit]

What do you think ? What's structure to use for title, you use Etymology first with ===, but I believe that it would be better to add noun / verb / adjectif / preposition in first place & after etymology / synonym / antonym / alternative forms / related term... What's your suggestion about this ? Also English Ka (soul in Egyptian) in Hebrew it's writed with the Qaf and not Ka, so pronunciation is קה [qa], I don't know they write in Egyptian Arabic.

I use Ka in title for link to my user page. I will not add in word page... Gmazdên 10:12, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Qiky (Tosk) & Qyky (Gheg) (Dick_Laurent)[edit]

Hi, you asked me about a miki jêm, and I told you that for this case Qiky (this one) is better than Ky, but I made a mistake Qiky is Tosk, Gheg uses Qyky... It's a detail but since it was for anëmik/anmik gheg variant page, and finally added in mik, I believe it's important to correct (check Qyky exist)... Gmazdên 09:08, 2 March 2011 (UTC)


I believe that Acar was pronounced [a.qar] after sometime by changing alphabet from Greek to ottoman script and at last latin the C [q] became [ʦ]... So acar [a.qar] became [a.ʦar]. ((Ϙρύβω (Ϙrývo) ϘρυπτοϘράφηση (ϘryptoϘráfisi) Qʰrio Qryo (Qryo) Qrysθal קר‎ / قرκριάρι (kriári) κίρκος (kírkos)𐎤𐎢𐎽𐎢𐏁 (ku-u-ru-u-š) Cyrus κύριος (kýrios)cyroChiro)). Gmazdên 09:45, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

ϘΡΥΟ / Cryo / κρύο & ΝΕϘΡΟΣ / Necro / νεκρός are related. The cold (coêl) is death and cold is the dead. Gmazdên 12:34, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Wiktionary is not a polygon for your crazy etymological experiments[edit]

You have been warned not to add patently false etymologies before, but you continue to do so. You have been blocked many times for this behaviour. I am now blocking you for your seventh time. You get a prize for your tenth. --Vahag 05:39, 9 March 2011 (UTC)